Revert the Azureblight Nerf

acastanza_ESO · September 23

Azureblight Reaper is currently the ONLY set in the game that provides any counterplay at all to the abusive gameplay and disgusting shield and heal stacking of ballgroups. Deleting this set from PVP (make no mistake, that is exactly what this unjustified nerf has accomplished), is nothing but gift-wrapping Cyrodiil for these groups that everyone agrees need additional counters, not fewer.

To counter the dev comment, Plaguebreak does NOT fill the same niche, not at all. The entire point of Azureblight in PVP is that it is, literally, the only thing in the game capable of outputting enough damage to counter the absurd 60k+ shield stacks of Ballgroups that scribing and additional shield sets have enabled. Plaguebreak does NOTHING to this because the damage scaling is so inadequate that they can easily outshield it if it even manages to proc (they don't bother to purge it because it's damage is so pitiful, and they don't proc it by dying because the entire problem is that they can output so much disgusting shielding that they literally can never die).

Unless you're going to make actual meaningful nerfs to the undeniably out of control Shield and Heal stacking that Ballgroups have been empowered with through Scribing, this deletion of Azureblight from PVP MUST be reversed.

The only actually correct balance change would have been to adjust the scaling curve so it does less damage to <~4 enemies, but actually more damage to 8-12 enemies.

RE-ENABLE SCALING AGAINST PLAYERS

Theist_VII · September 23

People have been begging for a separation of PvP and PvE, and if this is what it looks like, I’m good.

Just keep them together. 😂

Just_Attivi · September 23

I must have missed it in the notes, whats happening to Azureblight?

acastanza_ESO · September 23

Just_Attivi wrote: »

I must have missed it in the notes, whats happening to Azureblight?

The set is dead:

YandereGirlfriend · September 23

Amazing change - preserves its utility in PvE while reigning-in the most overperforming set in the history of Cyrodiil.

acastanza_ESO · September 23

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Amazing change - preserves its utility in PvE while reigning-in the most overperforming set in the history of Cyrodiil.

Rich considering how particular groups are known to abuse actually bugged proc sets.
Of course some people would be celebrating how they're not counter-able anymore.
Some people only care that their bug abusing ballgroup is unkillable again.

Major_Mangle · September 23

Not making it scale against players is one of the worst decisions ever made to a set. Reduce base damage while increase the scaling is literally what the vocal "anti-azureblight" people asked for. But the set should 200% continue to scale against players. Plaguebreak does absolutely nothing against a ballgroups and comparing azureblight to plaguebreak is laughable.

Just_Attivi · September 23

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Just_Attivi wrote: »

I must have missed it in the notes, whats happening to Azureblight?

The set is dead:

Ah... monsters only.... at first I was like 'this scaling isnt so bad, why would this be such an outrage' and then... Monsters only.

yea, I dont see this set being run anymore. Im not really in touch with the end game PVE crowd and I wouldn't think it would be competitive there, but for pvp, yea.... gone.

TheDefenestrator · September 23

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Amazing change - preserves its utility in PvE while reigning-in the most overperforming set in the history of Cyrodiil.

Azureblight is currently strong on 2 targets. On this new version you get the same damage on 4 targets as you do on 2 targets now. Its utility in PVE is much worse and this will genuinely push groups out of content.

I'm not even opposed to them doing that but marketing this as a PVP fix that doesnt touch PVe is not correct.

Just_Attivi · September 23

Maybe they REALLY want us to all embrace our inner tank and just sit on siege with that new set and 50k hp? exhilarating pvp right there....

YandereGirlfriend · September 23

TheDefenestrator wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Amazing change - preserves its utility in PvE while reigning-in the most overperforming set in the history of Cyrodiil.

Azureblight is currently strong on 2 targets. On this new version you get the same damage on 4 targets as you do on 2 targets now. Its utility in PVE is much worse and this will genuinely push groups out of content.

I'm not even opposed to them doing that but marketing this as a PVP fix that doesnt touch PVe is not correct.

Being that strong against two targets is pretty compelling proof that the set was overtuned.

It's also evidence against anyone who denied that Azureblight was commonly used to zerg-down smallscale groups and was like THE poster child for an Xv1 set.

Erickson9610 · September 23

Just_Attivi wrote: »

Maybe they REALLY want us to all embrace our inner tank and just sit on siege with that new set and 50k hp? exhilarating pvp right there....

Siege is a valid counter to ball groups in Cyrodiil. You've got siege weapons for both assaulting and defending keeps, which is the primary objective in Cyrodiil. Why not use the tools at your disposal?

xylena_lazarow · September 23

"fixed an issue where ball groups could die"

acastanza_ESO · September 23

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

TheDefenestrator wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Amazing change - preserves its utility in PvE while reigning-in the most overperforming set in the history of Cyrodiil.

Azureblight is currently strong on 2 targets. On this new version you get the same damage on 4 targets as you do on 2 targets now. Its utility in PVE is much worse and this will genuinely push groups out of content.

I'm not even opposed to them doing that but marketing this as a PVP fix that doesnt touch PVe is not correct.

Being that strong against two targets is pretty compelling proof that the set was overtuned.

It's also evidence against anyone who denied that Azureblight was commonly used to zerg-down smallscale groups and was like THE poster child for an Xv1 set.

It did nothing to two targets in PVP because as not-NPCs you have situational awareness. The only thing this set punished in PVP was mindless whole group stacking like ballgroups do. Stop defending this abusive and disgusting gameplay. Azureblight was finally a counter for this no-skill shield spam nonsense that these groups abuse.

acastanza_ESO · September 23

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Just_Attivi wrote: »

Maybe they REALLY want us to all embrace our inner tank and just sit on siege with that new set and 50k hp? exhilarating pvp right there....

Siege is a valid counter to ball groups in Cyrodiil. You've got siege weapons for both assaulting and defending keeps, which is the primary objective in Cyrodiil. Why not use the tools at your disposal?

These do not effectively counter ballgroups anymore due to the absurd and extreme degree of (particularly) shielding, but also healing that Scribing has enabled. Additionally, their ability to build at speed cap and abuse of bugged charms, and unblockable pulls means that standing on siege is a certain death sentence. "Don't fight, hide behind the walls until they break in and start running around them" is not a viable strategy or counterplay to ballgroups. Azureblight was.

Wuuffyy · September 23

Holy <snip> they are on a roll right now! Like y'all (ZOS) do realize that your game has around the most 'dead gear' of any game I've ever known personally.

I don't have exact numbers or anything to back this up (aside from years of knowledge in-game) but I would honestly say, especially due to lack of interesting visuals on older sets (for RP purposes), you probably have at-least 70-80% of your sets that are completely and utterly useless and you're just adding sets to that same pile at this point.

<snipped for Cursing and Profanity>

Reginald_leBlem · September 23

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Amazing change - preserves its utility in PvE while reigning-in the most overperforming set in the history of Cyrodiil.

It does not. Changing the way it works like this is going significantly limit the set in pve too

CameraBeardThePirate · September 23

Azureblight on live is OP against groups of 4 and up.

It should be very powerful against groups of 8 and up.

The change you made to the initial damage and scaling would have been (almost) enough to fix this problem - the damage starts lower, but ends up at the same place against a full group. The problem was basically fixed, but then you also completely delete the set from PvP? Why?

acastanza_ESO · September 23

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Azureblight on live is OP against groups of 4 and up.

It should be very powerful against groups of 8 and up.

The change you made to the initial damage and scaling would have been enough to fix this problem - the damage starts lower, but ends up at the same place against a full group. The problem was fixed, but then you also completely delete the set from PvP? Why?

Because ballgroups cried about it. And instead of taking that as a sign that the set was accomplishing what it was supposed to accomplish and actually provide some balance to PVP ZOS decided that ballgroups in fact should be immortal. Absolutely ridiculous.

Wuuffyy · September 23

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Azureblight on live is OP against groups of 4 and up.

It should be very powerful against groups of 8 and up.

The change you made to the initial damage and scaling would have been enough to fix this problem - the damage starts lower, but ends up at the same place against a full group. The problem was fixed, but then you also completely delete the set from PvP? Why?

Because ballgroups cried about it. And instead of taking that as a sign that the set was accomplishing what it was supposed to accomplish and actually provide some balance to PVP ZOS decided that ballgroups in fact should be immortal. Absolutely ridiculous.

Better watch out too, ball groups are crying about movement speed right now also.

gariondavey · September 23

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Azureblight on live is OP against groups of 4 and up.

It should be very powerful against groups of 8 and up.

The change you made to the initial damage and scaling would have been enough to fix this problem - the damage starts lower, but ends up at the same place against a full group. The problem was fixed, but then you also completely delete the set from PvP? Why?

Actually freaking good comment.
@ZOS_Kevin please check out this thread.

Tommy_The_Gun · September 23

Tbh. I never supported the idea of balancing game with sets. If something is problematic & too strong - then "target nerf" that thing & that thing only with surgical precision. Sets like Hrothgar, Dark Convergence, Plaguebreak, Tarnished or Azureblight should never ever be a thing. Game would have been far better without those. Notice when exactly people started complaining about cloak. Exactly the moment we got Tarnished meta. People say that Streak or Cloak is a crutch, but the reality is that broken builds are caused by broken sets.

If ball groups are a problem - don't give us sets. Players have good suggestions already how to balance ball groups & ball groups only. Just reduce stacking of same effects heals in PvP. That is it. Less calculations, less stress on a server and more balanced play style.

acastanza_ESO · September 23

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh. I never supported the idea of balancing game with sets. If something is problematic & too strong - then "target nerf" that thing & that thing only with surgical precision. Sets like Hrothgar, Dark Convergence, Plaguebreak, Tarnished or Azureblight should never ever be a thing. Game would have been far better without those. Notice when exactly people started complaining about cloak. Exactly the moment we got Tarnished meta. People say that Streak or Cloak is a crutch, but the reality is that broken builds are caused by broken sets.

If ball groups are a problem - don't give us sets. Players have good suggestions already how to balance ball groups & ball groups only. Just reduce stacking of same effects heals in PvP. That is it. Less calculations, less stress on a server and more balanced play style.

Scribing has enabled ballgroups to shift to stacking absurd 60-80k in damage shields constantly. Nerfing heal stacking simply isn't sufficient anymore due to ZOS's pants-on-head empowering of these groups. Azureblight was providing the only game counter to this.

IncultaWolf · September 23

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Amazing change - preserves its utility in PvE while reigning-in the most overperforming set in the history of Cyrodiil.

You play in a ball group, so I see why you're happy this is being removed. Azureblight was the only counter to that.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · September 23

Azureblight is the last counter to ball groups left in this game, I am on board with the changes as a user of it but you must introduce a way of dealing with ball groups in cyrodiil. The set wasnt just "throw it on ball group dies" type of set it did require coordination and multiple users in a comp to be actually effective against a ball group. Like people have said already the initial change was enough to be a nerf against 4-5 mans but retain its power from 8 + which is what ball groups typically run with.

Like I've said ways of countering ball groups are obsolete after this change, revert proxy to its old self or give us harmony back so that if you are speccing to kill a ball group fighting a faction stack, you are able to do so with good coordinated plays.

gariondavey · September 23

IncultaWolf wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Amazing change - preserves its utility in PvE while reigning-in the most overperforming set in the history of Cyrodiil.

You play in a ball group, so I see why you're happy this is being removed. Azureblight was the only counter to that.

Wait is that true?

IncultaWolf · September 23

gariondavey wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Amazing change - preserves its utility in PvE while reigning-in the most overperforming set in the history of Cyrodiil.

You play in a ball group, so I see why you're happy this is being removed. Azureblight was the only counter to that.

Wait is that true?

Yeah, they play on DC, I recognize the @ name several times in-game on PCNA.

Tommy_The_Gun · September 23

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh. I never supported the idea of balancing game with sets. If something is problematic & too strong - then "target nerf" that thing & that thing only with surgical precision. Sets like Hrothgar, Dark Convergence, Plaguebreak, Tarnished or Azureblight should never ever be a thing. Game would have been far better without those. Notice when exactly people started complaining about cloak. Exactly the moment we got Tarnished meta. People say that Streak or Cloak is a crutch, but the reality is that broken builds are caused by broken sets.

If ball groups are a problem - don't give us sets. Players have good suggestions already how to balance ball groups & ball groups only. Just reduce stacking of same effects heals in PvP. That is it. Less calculations, less stress on a server and more balanced play style.

Scribing has enabled ballgroups to shift to stacking absurd 60-80k in damage shields constantly. Nerfing heal stacking simply isn't sufficient anymore due to ZOS's pants-on-head empowering of these groups. Azureblight was providing the only game counter to this.

Huh...
So if shields are problem on top of heal stacking, then quite literally the 1st idea that came to my mind is to reduce effectives of shields by X % per group member and do it through battle spirit. So that it would not be beneficial enough to run shields in a ball group. And I am not even a game dev, but I know something like this would work.

It pains me to think that ZOS actually never addressed Ball Groups since... I mean actually never. For Over 10 years, Ball Groups were receiving indirect buffs and even direct buffs. And call me crazy but I actually think that ZOS shifting attention to cloak is there only to take our attention of the real problems. I mean saying that streak or cloak or whatever is a problem while we have Ball Groups in the same game is quite ridiculous & hypocritical.

acastanza_ESO · September 23

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh. I never supported the idea of balancing game with sets. If something is problematic & too strong - then "target nerf" that thing & that thing only with surgical precision. Sets like Hrothgar, Dark Convergence, Plaguebreak, Tarnished or Azureblight should never ever be a thing. Game would have been far better without those. Notice when exactly people started complaining about cloak. Exactly the moment we got Tarnished meta. People say that Streak or Cloak is a crutch, but the reality is that broken builds are caused by broken sets.

If ball groups are a problem - don't give us sets. Players have good suggestions already how to balance ball groups & ball groups only. Just reduce stacking of same effects heals in PvP. That is it. Less calculations, less stress on a server and more balanced play style.

Scribing has enabled ballgroups to shift to stacking absurd 60-80k in damage shields constantly. Nerfing heal stacking simply isn't sufficient anymore due to ZOS's pants-on-head empowering of these groups. Azureblight was providing the only game counter to this.

Huh...
So if shields are problem on top of heal stacking, then quite literally the 1st idea that came to my mind is to reduce effectives of shields by X % per group member and do it through battle spirit. So that it would not be beneficial enough to run shields in a ball group. And I am not even a game dev, but I know something like this would work.

It pains me to think that ZOS actually never addressed Ball Groups since... I mean actually never. For Over 10 years, Ball Groups were receiving indirect buffs and even direct buffs. And call me crazy but I actually think that ZOS shifting attention to cloak is there only to take our attention of the real problems. I mean saying that streak or cloak or whatever is a problem while we have Ball Groups in the same game is quite ridiculous & hypocritical.

Dividing the tooltip of a shield among the people who are shielded by it (without increasing the tooltips from their current values) while under the effect of battlespirit could definitely be an interesting way to inject some counterplay back in, and if ZOS had made those kinds of targeted adjustments at the same time as deleting the only current counter to their playstyle we'd be having a completely different discussion. But that's not what happened. Instead ZOS deleted the only viable counter to their abusive, if not outright exploitative, playstyle without introducing any alternative.

Aldoss · September 23

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Azureblight on live is OP against groups of 4 and up.

It should be very powerful against groups of 8 and up.

The change you made to the initial damage and scaling would have been (almost) enough to fix this problem - the damage starts lower, but ends up at the same place against a full group. The problem was basically fixed, but then you also completely delete the set from PvP? Why?

Quoting to show support. This was literally my thought process while reading it.

I was elated for this... until that last line. Completely destroyed the set with one phrase. Completely empowered ball groups.

More tone deaf changes from the combat team.

React · September 23

Interesting how the only people praising this change are those who play in "ball groups". They seem to be pretty excited that quite literally the only thing capable of killing them has now been removed.