Revert the Azureblight Nerf

kyle.wilson

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

baconaura wrote: »

The damage scaling only applying to monsters would have been good enough, and addressed the battleground concerns. why nerf the base damage so much?

The damage scaling needs to be reverted, its too heavy of a nerf across the board, and even at capped targets, there is no "slight buff", it merely matches what the old set's damage was doing with 1 less target. Its from 69% to 14% damage reduction when matching the 6 target cap currently. and at 7 target, it only matches current set.

Here are the calculations on damage based on targets hit with the blight.



Noone was complaining about this set in pve. if anything, maybe buff other aoe sets like aegis caller, or the other hundreds of dead sets that arent being used today..

I've used this set for years, it's a good set for general PVE play. All of sudden PVP starts complaining and now it get a nerf! To be clear this high reduction in base damage will hurt it's utility in most situations.

There have been certain guilds that have found moderate success against ball groups using the set. It doesn't work as well in reverse.

MidniteOwl1913

kyle.wilson wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

baconaura wrote: »

The damage scaling only applying to monsters would have been good enough, and addressed the battleground concerns. why nerf the base damage so much?

The damage scaling needs to be reverted, its too heavy of a nerf across the board, and even at capped targets, there is no "slight buff", it merely matches what the old set's damage was doing with 1 less target. Its from 69% to 14% damage reduction when matching the 6 target cap currently. and at 7 target, it only matches current set.

Here are the calculations on damage based on targets hit with the blight.



Noone was complaining about this set in pve. if anything, maybe buff other aoe sets like aegis caller, or the other hundreds of dead sets that arent being used today..

I've used this set for years, it's a good set for general PVE play. All of sudden PVP starts complaining and now it get a nerf! To be clear this high reduction in base damage will hurt it's utility in most situations.

There have been certain guilds that have found moderate success against ball groups using the set. It doesn't work as well in reverse.

So yeah I get that this nerf is about ballgroups, but I didn't think they were a new thing? This set is old, why all of sudden is it a problem for them? And if as people seem to be saying it's the only counter shouldn't that mean for balance it needs to remain as it is?

Renato90085

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

baconaura wrote: »

The damage scaling only applying to monsters would have been good enough, and addressed the battleground concerns. why nerf the base damage so much?

The damage scaling needs to be reverted, its too heavy of a nerf across the board, and even at capped targets, there is no "slight buff", it merely matches what the old set's damage was doing with 1 less target. Its from 69% to 14% damage reduction when matching the 6 target cap currently. and at 7 target, it only matches current set.

Here are the calculations on damage based on targets hit with the blight.



Noone was complaining about this set in pve. if anything, maybe buff other aoe sets like aegis caller, or the other hundreds of dead sets that arent being used today..

I've used this set for years, it's a good set for general PVE play. All of sudden PVP starts complaining and now it get a nerf! To be clear this high reduction in base damage will hurt it's utility in most situations. Why do I have to have adjust my builds because somebody somewhere in PVP decides a set that been around this long is suddenly OP?

This starts with Zos hoping that arc will dominate pve so they change this set..
old ab can only be run by one

MasterSpatula

I'm having a hard time coming up with a believable good-faith explanation for this. ZOS's listed explanation holds water like a colander, and outside of willfully empowering behavior they have an absolute and inviolate ethical and game-design obligation to discourage, I've can't conceive of a thing. I really don't want to think this way, but nothing else is feasible.

Einstein_

in my opinion as a BALLGROUP PLAYER:

Nerf the dmg a bit (maybe 60-80% scaling instead of 100%), but enable the PVP part again.
For now this set is a bit to strong for spamming 3 AOE dots onto a stack of players, if group or Zerg.

but tbh., to all the ppl who complain about unkillable Ballgroups: ITS A YOU PROBLEM, as a group player myself i regularly kill other groups without azure, just with a organized 3-4 man...

As a solo player i can ez. 1v3 why cant i 10v30 with a organized group ?

TheMrPancake

I don't understand why they have made it worse for both sides of the coin.

If they want to remove it from PvE, then they've succeeded by lowering its damage output dramatically in most scenarios.

If they want to remove it from PvP, then the last line about damage increases not affecting players achieves this.

Why both changes? What are you trying to accomplish ZOS?

Neither PvE nor PvP players want this change. Please revert it and find a different solution than this.

Pevey

Einstein_ wrote: »

in my opinion as a BALLGROUP PLAYER:

Nerf the dmg a bit (maybe 60-80% scaling instead of 100%), but enable the PVP part again.
For now this set is a bit to strong for spamming 3 AOE dots onto a stack of players, if group or Zerg.

but tbh., to all the ppl who complain about unkillable Ballgroups: ITS A YOU PROBLEM, as a group player myself i regularly kill other groups without azure, just with a organized 3-4 man...

As a solo player i can ez. 1v3 why cant i 10v30 with a organized group ?

I call [snip], you are not getting through the heals and shields and buffs of a true ball group.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Aurielle

I’m just about nearing the end of my wits with this game for a third time. I don’t know why I keep coming back, because it’s always the same thing: sets I like and use are “balanced” with a chainsaw, and it feels like the vocal minority always gets their way. I spent so many hours doing content I hate to farm Pyrebrand — the only actually worthwhile class set — and it’s getting nerfed to the ground because a small number of players claimed it was overperforming. I was supporting the AB groups out there dealing with the oppressive AD and DC ballgroups that exist only to farm EP (never each other), and that set’s getting nerfed to the ground as well. Because a small number of players claimed it was overperforming instead of spreading out and “adapting,” as they always encourage us to do when we express distaste for their oppressive play style.

Then throw in the crippling latency issues and disconnects… Seriously, why bother?

Major_Toughness

Einstein_ wrote: »

in my opinion as a BALLGROUP PLAYER:

Nerf the dmg a bit (maybe 60-80% scaling instead of 100%), but enable the PVP part again.
For now this set is a bit to strong for spamming 3 AOE dots onto a stack of players, if group or Zerg.

but tbh., to all the ppl who complain about unkillable Ballgroups: ITS A YOU PROBLEM, as a group player myself i regularly kill other groups without azure, just with a organized 3-4 man...

As a solo player i can ez. 1v3 why cant i 10v30 with a organized group ?

Due to buff sets, HoT stacking, and shield stacking, plus the recent addition of scribing, an organised groups power scales exponentially compared to the 30 random players you are against.

40k health, 10 echoing vigors, 10 radiant regens, shields, 10k weapon damage, 40k penetration.

A single person is a ball group is stronger than an emperor, and you have 10-12 of them. If you can 1v3 as non-Emperor, how many do you reckon you could 1vX as Emperor? Now multiple that by like 20, and that's how many people a good ball group could deal with. You're talking current cap of an entire alliance.

Should players be punished for being an organised group? No.
Should there be counter play? Yes.

Idinuse

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh. I never supported the idea of balancing game with sets. If something is problematic & too strong - then "target nerf" that thing & that thing only with surgical precision. Sets like Hrothgar, Dark Convergence, Plaguebreak, Tarnished or Azureblight should never ever be a thing. Game would have been far better without those. Notice when exactly people started complaining about cloak. Exactly the moment we got Tarnished meta. People say that Streak or Cloak is a crutch, but the reality is that broken builds are caused by broken sets.

If ball groups are a problem - don't give us sets. Players have good suggestions already how to balance ball groups & ball groups only. Just reduce stacking of same effects heals in PvP. That is it. Less calculations, less stress on a server and more balanced play style.

Scribing has enabled ballgroups to shift to stacking absurd 60-80k in damage shields constantly. Nerfing heal stacking simply isn't sufficient anymore due to ZOS's pants-on-head empowering of these groups. Azureblight was providing the only game counter to this.

Huh...
So if shields are problem on top of heal stacking, then quite literally the 1st idea that came to my mind is to reduce effectives of shields by X % per group member and do it through battle spirit. So that it would not be beneficial enough to run shields in a ball group. And I am not even a game dev, but I know something like this would work.

It pains me to think that ZOS actually never addressed Ball Groups since... I mean actually never. For Over 10 years, Ball Groups were receiving indirect buffs and even direct buffs. And call me crazy but I actually think that ZOS shifting attention to cloak is there only to take our attention of the real problems. I mean saying that streak or cloak or whatever is a problem while we have Ball Groups in the same game is quite ridiculous & hypocritical.

So much this.

I would say that the stacking is the thing to go. It's not the individual shields or HoTs that are in fact the main problem, it's the dang stacking of it. At the very least you shouldn't be able to stack the same skill over and over. Different skills, sure, but not the same ones. Or why not diminishing returns? Every stacked healing skill is reduced by 50% of the previous, while shields don't stack at all, unless different skills all together or stack to a common max cap? IDK...

Pevey

Idinuse wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh. I never supported the idea of balancing game with sets. If something is problematic & too strong - then "target nerf" that thing & that thing only with surgical precision. Sets like Hrothgar, Dark Convergence, Plaguebreak, Tarnished or Azureblight should never ever be a thing. Game would have been far better without those. Notice when exactly people started complaining about cloak. Exactly the moment we got Tarnished meta. People say that Streak or Cloak is a crutch, but the reality is that broken builds are caused by broken sets.

If ball groups are a problem - don't give us sets. Players have good suggestions already how to balance ball groups & ball groups only. Just reduce stacking of same effects heals in PvP. That is it. Less calculations, less stress on a server and more balanced play style.

Scribing has enabled ballgroups to shift to stacking absurd 60-80k in damage shields constantly. Nerfing heal stacking simply isn't sufficient anymore due to ZOS's pants-on-head empowering of these groups. Azureblight was providing the only game counter to this.

Huh...
So if shields are problem on top of heal stacking, then quite literally the 1st idea that came to my mind is to reduce effectives of shields by X % per group member and do it through battle spirit. So that it would not be beneficial enough to run shields in a ball group. And I am not even a game dev, but I know something like this would work.

It pains me to think that ZOS actually never addressed Ball Groups since... I mean actually never. For Over 10 years, Ball Groups were receiving indirect buffs and even direct buffs. And call me crazy but I actually think that ZOS shifting attention to cloak is there only to take our attention of the real problems. I mean saying that streak or cloak or whatever is a problem while we have Ball Groups in the same game is quite ridiculous & hypocritical.

So much this.

I would say that the stacking is the thing to go. It's not the individual shields or HoTs that are in fact the main problem, it's the dang stacking of it. At the very least you shouldn't be able to stack the same skill over and over. Different skills, sure, but not the same ones. Or why not diminishing returns? Every stacked healing skill is reduced by 50% of the previous, while shields don't stack at all, unless different skills all together or stack to a common max cap? IDK...

I completely agree, and it would serve these people well if their campaign against anything that can damage them while stacking in a little ball finally caused ZOS to nerf some of the reasons they are stacking in a little ball. Heals and shields from the same base skills should not stack, just like major and minor buffs of the same type do not stack.

Leonis3491

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Einstein_ wrote: »

in my opinion as a BALLGROUP PLAYER:

Nerf the dmg a bit (maybe 60-80% scaling instead of 100%), but enable the PVP part again.
For now this set is a bit to strong for spamming 3 AOE dots onto a stack of players, if group or Zerg.

but tbh., to all the ppl who complain about unkillable Ballgroups: ITS A YOU PROBLEM, as a group player myself i regularly kill other groups without azure, just with a organized 3-4 man...

As a solo player i can ez. 1v3 why cant i 10v30 with a organized group ?

Due to buff sets, HoT stacking, and shield stacking, plus the recent addition of scribing, an organised groups power scales exponentially compared to the 30 random players you are against.

40k health, 10 echoing vigors, 10 radiant regens, shields, 10k weapon damage, 40k penetration.

A single person is a ball group is stronger than an emperor, and you have 10-12 of them. If you can 1v3 as non-Emperor, how many do you reckon you could 1vX as Emperor? Now multiple that by like 20, and that's how many people a good ball group could deal with. You're talking current cap of an entire alliance.

Should players be punished for being an organised group? No.
Should there be counter play? Yes.

My opinion as a PVE trials player :
This set may need a nerf. Some content are to easy because of the global dps potential the set give to a trial organised group. For exemple Bahsei HM 2 portals, Reef Guardian HM or Orphic HM in less than 3 min. But it also realy cool to play it so its sad to completly kill the set...

And as MAJOR said about the PVP part, a nerf mean also ball groups will completly unkillable. And as he said : Should there be counter play? Yes.

My opinion about a good nerf is 20-30% base damage réduction, but start the incrémental boost of damage with 3-4 target hit instead of 2 and cap with 8-10 target.

The set will be still good on trashpack but nerfed on some HM boss, and keep the counterplay potential on ballgroup.

Aggrovious

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Just_Attivi wrote: »

I must have missed it in the notes, whats happening to Azureblight?

The set is dead:

"Rather than directly increasing to one?" Sounds like a nerf...

Iriidius

Ballgroups (before azureblight became counter): PuGs! stop asking for ballgroup nerfs and adapt to current meta!

When PuGs adapt:
Ballgroups (after azureblight became counter):
ZoS! nerf azureblight, we cant adapt, azureblight is too op!

Also Ballgroups (after azureblight became counter):
ZoS! nerf azureblight, it destroys solo play, I am solo player and got zerged by azureblight group!



Ballgroups (after azureblight nerf announced):
PuGs! stop asking for ballgroup nerfs and adapt to current meta!
(Like we did not just ask for and got an azureblight nerf because we did not want to adapt)

Dactiller

Hey community
As a PC EU PVE raider, these are my two cents

I will try to argue why AB is an extremely powerful set, explore how its state in the current test server will affect PVE trial groups and finally offer personal insights that may open avenues to further conversation.

Currently, AB is arguably the most popular set used by HM+ groups. It has been a staple one-size-fits-all for multiple builds for meta classes in trials. Changes to this set will undoubtedly trickle down to all groups from score-pushing to mid game (Old trifectas and HM Progs)

AB is strong mainly because of 4 reasons:

1. It’s easy to use, as its proc conditions can be summarized in : Do damage
2. It has many use cases : any fight with more than one consistent damageable target
3. It’s vastly outperforming any other set in its use cases
4. There are no drawbacks in any of its use cases

Now let’s explore these use cases in boss encounters in DLC trials

• Halls of Fabrication (2/5 bosses)
• Asylum Sanctorium (0/1 bosses)
• Cloudrest (0/1 bosses)*
• Sunspire (1/3 bosses)*
• Kyne’s Aegis (1/3 bosses)*
• Rockgrove (1/3 bosses)
• Dreadsail Reef (2/3 bosses)
• Sanity’s Edge (2/3 bosses)
• Lucent Citadel (3/3 bosses)

*with some groups using it in more bosses in some niche scenarios/console

Here are the main drawbacks if the changes in the test server come to fruition :

1. The changes in the current test server will likely make the set not viable in most, if not all of the boss fight encounters.
2. Some groups will have to come up with new strategies after feeling regression. Then refarm, retrain, reprog, while carrying the idea/feeling of “It was so much easier before and now my group feels impotent” (U35 Flashbacks?). This will highly affect the groups that are running the newer raids. A noteworthy example is the final encounter in Lucent Citadel, Knot and Xoryn which will be extremely challenging on hardmode with the amount of cleave damage required to have a smooth fight.
3. Some bosses will never be able to be played with the same strategies and some fight times records may never be broken again until a new power creep is introduced.

Proposed solutions:

• Keep the damage penalty, increase the scaling: The current 60% base reduction seems fine, but the scaling is extremely low and should reach the cap way before 7 targets in PVE, 1 and 2 targets should be extremely penalized, and the scaling could grow exponentially instead of linearly to make up for it.
• Make the Blight Seed stack last shorter: This will result forcing the wearers to have at a more consistent amount of damage tics per second on the target to be able to proc the set, so that the passive usage is penalized but diligent usage is rewarded.
• Offer an alternative by buffing/introducing a different set that is aimed toward encounters with 2 and 3 consistent targets, but falls off when damaging more than 3 targets. Perhaps a set that does the following : Your light attacks can mark up to 3 enemies for 30 seconds, these enemies receive extra damage from all your damage sources. When you bash a marked target, you consume the mark and restore resources, you can't mark a target again for 30 seconds. You deal less damage to unmarked enemies the more marks you have active. (Kinda like spell strategist for up to 3 targets but with a dynamic twist).

Auldwulfe

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Amazing change - preserves its utility in PvE while reigning-in the most overperforming set in the history of Cyrodiil.

That's debatable --- because you still need to get to 20 stacks of DOT to set it off, and in most 12 man groups with Decent DPS .... few of the mobs last long enough to provide it.... so, it's a stack counter, adding calculations to the system, and adding to the overall server load, with the possibility of attendant lag, but may not actually add to the group, at all.

We'll see, but having seen it used by members of my guild, in trials.... it doesn't go off nearly as much as people think.

We'll have to have some people run it in PTS trials, to see.... I have my own suspicions... but, meh, it is what it is... one more removal of enthusiasm to keep renewing my subscription.

Auldwulfe

CameraBeardThePirate

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

baconaura wrote: »

The damage scaling only applying to monsters would have been good enough, and addressed the battleground concerns. why nerf the base damage so much?

The damage scaling needs to be reverted, its too heavy of a nerf across the board, and even at capped targets, there is no "slight buff", it merely matches what the old set's damage was doing with 1 less target. Its from 69% to 14% damage reduction when matching the 6 target cap currently. and at 7 target, it only matches current set.

Here are the calculations on damage based on targets hit with the blight.



Noone was complaining about this set in pve. if anything, maybe buff other aoe sets like aegis caller, or the other hundreds of dead sets that arent being used today..

I've used this set for years, it's a good set for general PVE play. All of sudden PVP starts complaining and now it get a nerf! To be clear this high reduction in base damage will hurt it's utility in most situations. Why do I have to have adjust my builds because somebody somewhere in PVP decides a set that been around this long is suddenly OP?

It hasn't been around "this long". The set got an adjustment this year that pushed it over the edge (the proxy scaling)

Wikter_Bravo

The only people that wanted the nerf is ball group players. I've never seen azureblight used against zergs or for bombing. It's funny how it's ok for these people to ruin cyrodiil for others, cause lag, be annoying, but when the tables turn on them, it's a problem.

Ball groups used to be impressive when they would actually fight each other or fight off a faction. But now they are just cringe.

Antrox41

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

The only people that wanted the nerf is ball group players. I've never seen azureblight used against zergs or for bombing. It's funny how it's ok for these people to ruin cyrodiil for others, cause lag, be annoying, but when the tables turn on them, it's a problem.

Ball groups used to be impressive when they would actually fight each other or fight off a faction. But now they are just cringe.

[snip] People are sitting here blaming ball groups for everything imaginable rather then blame the underlining issues that everyone seems to forget, which is heal stacking.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

Wikter_Bravo

Antrox41 wrote: »

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

The only people that wanted the nerf is ball group players. I've never seen azureblight used against zergs or for bombing. It's funny how it's ok for these people to ruin cyrodiil for others, cause lag, be annoying, but when the tables turn on them, it's a problem.

Ball groups used to be impressive when they would actually fight each other or fight off a faction. But now they are just cringe.

[snip] People are sitting here blaming ball groups for everything imaginable rather then blame the underlining issues that everyone seems to forget, which is heal stacking.

[snip]

Lmao, don't do that, don't compare ball groups to pug groups or small man orginised groups. They are all different of each other. As for how "good" ball group players are, we all know that theres been a significant decline in quality.

[snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

Antrox41

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

Antrox41 wrote: »

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

The only people that wanted the nerf is ball group players. I've never seen azureblight used against zergs or for bombing. It's funny how it's ok for these people to ruin cyrodiil for others, cause lag, be annoying, but when the tables turn on them, it's a problem.

Ball groups used to be impressive when they would actually fight each other or fight off a faction. But now they are just cringe.

[snip] People are sitting here blaming ball groups for everything imaginable rather then blame the underlining issues that everyone seems to forget, which is heal stacking.

[snip]

Lmao, don't do that, don't compare ball groups to pug groups or small man orginised groups. They are all different of each other. As for how "good" ball group players are, we all know that theres been a significant decline in quality.

[snip]

Wrong again buddy. I have used blight against opposing groups before. Its an extreme amount of pressure even with only 2 people using it. No they don't instantly die but if they aren't paying attention they can take a lot of damage instantly, with 4 people its pretty much constantly proccing its burst.

Yes, ZoS couldve handled the nerf better by not allowing stacking from a different caster and decreasing the burst damage or just making the stacks purgable. We weren't actively rooting for the set to be useless, we wanted it to be balanced because it literally had zero counter play to it.

[edited to remove quote]

Idinuse

Antrox41 wrote: »

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

The only people that wanted the nerf is ball group players. I've never seen azureblight used against zergs or for bombing. It's funny how it's ok for these people to ruin cyrodiil for others, cause lag, be annoying, but when the tables turn on them, it's a problem.

Ball groups used to be impressive when they would actually fight each other or fight off a faction. But now they are just cringe.

So in other words "Oh no! They are better then me, that makes me mad, so I will go on the forums and moan and complain constantly about how cringe and abusive it is because now the one "turn your brain off" set where you can spam 1 ability to be effective is now nerfed to the ground."

This is partly ZoS fault with the way the handle things, which is essentially putting everything under the rug and introducing something so utterly broken

it has literally zero counterplay

even with a fully coordinated group. People are sitting here blaming ball groups for everything imaginable rather then blame the underlining issues that everyone seems to forget, which is heal stacking.

Whats extremely cringe imo is the people here complaining about group play in Cyrodiil as if thats not what Cyrodiil is supposed to be.

Interesting choice of words.... tell me, what exactly is the counter to the mass shield stacking, mass healing and mass buffing ball groups? Not playing at all?

Wikter_Bravo

Antrox41 wrote: »

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

Antrox41 wrote: »

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

The only people that wanted the nerf is ball group players. I've never seen azureblight used against zergs or for bombing. It's funny how it's ok for these people to ruin cyrodiil for others, cause lag, be annoying, but when the tables turn on them, it's a problem.

Ball groups used to be impressive when they would actually fight each other or fight off a faction. But now they are just cringe.

[snip] People are sitting here blaming ball groups for everything imaginable rather then blame the underlining issues that everyone seems to forget, which is heal stacking.

[snip]

Lmao, don't do that, don't compare ball groups to pug groups or small man orginised groups. They are all different of each other. As for how "good" ball group players are, we all know that theres been a significant decline in quality.

[snip]

Wrong again buddy. I have used blight against opposing groups before. Its an extreme amount of pressure even with only 2 people using it. No they don't instantly die but if they aren't paying attention they can take a lot of damage instantly, with 4 people its pretty much constantly proccing its burst.

Yes, ZoS couldve handled the nerf better by not allowing stacking from a different caster and decreasing the burst damage or just making the stacks purgable. We weren't actively rooting for the set to be useless, we wanted it to be balanced because it literally had zero counter play to it.

So you proved that it does it's job against the intended target, Thanks

[edited to remove quote]

Antrox41

Idinuse wrote: »

Antrox41 wrote: »

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

The only people that wanted the nerf is ball group players. I've never seen azureblight used against zergs or for bombing. It's funny how it's ok for these people to ruin cyrodiil for others, cause lag, be annoying, but when the tables turn on them, it's a problem.

Ball groups used to be impressive when they would actually fight each other or fight off a faction. But now they are just cringe.

[snip] People are sitting here blaming ball groups for everything imaginable rather then blame the underlining issues that everyone seems to forget, which is heal stacking.

[snip]

Interesting choice of words.... tell me, what exactly is the counter to the mass shield stacking, mass healing and mass buffing ball groups? Not playing at all?

Reread what I said.

[edited to remove quote]

Antrox41

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

Antrox41 wrote: »

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

Antrox41 wrote: »

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

The only people that wanted the nerf is ball group players. I've never seen azureblight used against zergs or for bombing. It's funny how it's ok for these people to ruin cyrodiil for others, cause lag, be annoying, but when the tables turn on them, it's a problem.

Ball groups used to be impressive when they would actually fight each other or fight off a faction. But now they are just cringe.

[snip] People are sitting here blaming ball groups for everything imaginable rather then blame the underlining issues that everyone seems to forget, which is heal stacking.

[snip]

Lmao, don't do that, don't compare ball groups to pug groups or small man orginised groups. They are all different of each other. As for how "good" ball group players are, we all know that theres been a significant decline in quality.

[snip]

Wrong again buddy. I have used blight against opposing groups before. Its an extreme amount of pressure even with only 2 people using it. No they don't instantly die but if they aren't paying attention they can take a lot of damage instantly, with 4 people its pretty much constantly proccing its burst.

Yes, ZoS couldve handled the nerf better by not allowing stacking from a different caster and decreasing the burst damage or just making the stacks purgable. We weren't actively rooting for the set to be useless, we wanted it to be balanced because it literally had zero counter play to it.

So you proved that it does it's job against the intended target, Thanks

It was killing even unorganized groups and even small man groups who rock hump. How is that fair in anyway? So let me get this straight you want ball groups to not be good so instead going about it with the actual issues you'd rather have a set that pretty much destroys all grouping in general? LMAO! thank you for proving what I said about grouping in Cyrodiil earlier.

[edited to remove quote]

ArctosCethlenn

Azureblight is treated as single target direct damage for the purpose of mitigations. So Major and Minor Evasion do not reduce its damage done, nor does unassailable, despite it being an aoe. That's the only thing that ever actually needed to be fixed from a pvp perspective.

as I said in one of the other threads about it:

With a lower base and increased scaling it'd be fine in largescale to leave the scaling per target active in pvp for zerging down large stacked groups, then those changes make the set less viable for smallscale pvp which seems to be an acceptable tradeoff.

But outright removing the scaling damage from additional targets in pvp excessively neuters the set, against 6+ targets it's effectively a 7-fold nerf, from 280% of the current tooltip to 40%. I'm not sure a set has EVER been nerfed that hard? Hell I run a ball and can still see that it was overdone.

Synapsis123

As someone who was an early adopter of azure, good riddance. All I ever did was go into cyrodiil with 6-12 other players all wearing this set and zerg people down. It was getting to be quite boring. It required little to no coordination. Now we can finally return to having to coordinate sets and play together to do damage.

Hopefully this will also fix a lot of the lag we have been seeing lately that has been making cyrodiil miserably unplayable.

Wikter_Bravo

Antrox41 wrote: »

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

Antrox41 wrote: »

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

Antrox41 wrote: »

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

The only people that wanted the nerf is ball group players. I've never seen azureblight used against zergs or for bombing. It's funny how it's ok for these people to ruin cyrodiil for others, cause lag, be annoying, but when the tables turn on them, it's a problem.

Ball groups used to be impressive when they would actually fight each other or fight off a faction. But now they are just cringe.

[snip] People are sitting here blaming ball groups for everything imaginable rather then blame the underlining issues that everyone seems to forget, which is heal stacking.

[snip]

Lmao, don't do that, don't compare ball groups to pug groups or small man orginised groups. They are all different of each other. As for how "good" ball group players are, we all know that theres been a significant decline in quality.

[snip]

Wrong again buddy. I have used blight against opposing groups before. Its an extreme amount of pressure even with only 2 people using it. No they don't instantly die but if they aren't paying attention they can take a lot of damage instantly, with 4 people its pretty much constantly proccing its burst.

Yes, ZoS couldve handled the nerf better by not allowing stacking from a different caster and decreasing the burst damage or just making the stacks purgable. We weren't actively rooting for the set to be useless, we wanted it to be balanced because it literally had zero counter play to it.

So you proved that it does it's job against the intended target, Thanks

It was killing even unorganized groups and even small man groups who rock hump. How is that fair in anyway? So let me get this straight you want ball groups to not be good so instead going about it with the actual issues you'd rather have a set that pretty much destroys all grouping in general? LMAO! thank you for proving what I said about grouping in Cyrodiil earlier.

[edited to remove quote]

But it doesn't kill zergs tho, if you're stacked then it hurts, like it is intended to.... And it like I said before, it is never used against zergs or for bombing, so how exactly is it affecting grouping? It only affects groups that stack again, like it is intended to.

And lets not pretend heal stacking is the only problem with ball groups.

Antrox41

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

Azureblight is treated as single target direct damage for the purpose of mitigations. So Major and Minor Evasion do not reduce its damage done, nor does unassailable, despite it being an aoe. That's the only thing that ever actually needed to be fixed from a pvp perspective.

as I said in one of the other threads about it:

With a lower base and increased scaling it'd be fine in largescale to leave the scaling per target active in pvp for zerging down large stacked groups, then those changes make the set less viable for smallscale pvp which seems to be an acceptable tradeoff.

But outright removing the scaling damage from additional targets in pvp excessively neuters the set, against 6+ targets it's effectively a 7-fold nerf, from 280% of the current tooltip to 40%. I'm not sure a set has EVER been nerfed that hard? Hell I run a ball and can still see that it was overdone.

While im not even mad about the nerf I also think its way overdone. Like I said earlier there was plenty of things to change about this set that couldve easily fixed most of its issues.

Iriidius

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

Antrox41 wrote: »

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

The only people that wanted the nerf is ball group players. I've never seen azureblight used against zergs or for bombing. It's funny how it's ok for these people to ruin cyrodiil for others, cause lag, be annoying, but when the tables turn on them, it's a problem.

Ball groups used to be impressive when they would actually fight each other or fight off a faction. But now they are just cringe.

[snip] People are sitting here blaming ball groups for everything imaginable rather then blame the underlining issues that everyone seems to forget, which is heal stacking.

[snip]

Lmao, don't do that, don't compare ball groups to pug groups or small man orginised groups. They are all different of each other. As for how "good" ball group players are, we all know that theres been a significant decline in quality.

[snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

Antrox41 wrote: »

Wikter_Bravo wrote: »

The only people that wanted the nerf is ball group players. I've never seen azureblight used against zergs or for bombing. It's funny how it's ok for these people to ruin cyrodiil for others, cause lag, be annoying, but when the tables turn on them, it's a problem.

Ball groups used to be impressive when they would actually fight each other or fight off a faction. But now they are just cringe.

[snip] People are sitting here blaming ball groups for everything imaginable rather then blame the underlining issues that everyone seems to forget, which is heal stacking.

[snip]

blaming ballgroups and heal stacking is more or less the same as ballgroups are the main users of heal stacking getting most of their survivability from heal stacking and shield stacking(which is practically the same) and will defend it at all cost when someone asks to nerf it althought some of them will declare that they will be just as strong after nerf using single target heal and the ones healstacking and suffering from a nerf to it the most will be solo players which I highly doubt because as a solo player I almost never get healstacking (except when surfing a ballgroup) and cant do it myself.