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Nightblade changes
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bladenick✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »Toggle is horrible , as you need switch skill bar or slot cloak in both bar, that does make its easy to use, especially for PvP resource management
Why not Keep current cloak just remove mag recovery ?
Or You can just perform an action that ends cloak? As far as resource managment goes using siphoning attacks+rally will be a childs play after changes to cloak and that combo will allow You to stay in cloak almost permanently on any type of nightblade.
In live server, cast cloak , run away, cloak end, auto switch to HIDE, if eye open , cast again
In PTS, need untoggle it, or mag drain constantly, this is big difference, need 1 step to switch between invisible and hide
3 -
blktauna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Toggle is horrible , as you need switch skill bar or slot cloak in both bar, that does make its easy to use, especially for PvP resource management
Why not Keep current cloak just remove mag recovery ?
Or You can just perform an action that ends cloak? As far as resource managment goes using siphoning attacks+rally will be a childs play after changes to cloak and that combo will allow You to stay in cloak almost permanently on any type of nightblade.
I like how you thing things will work in time to keep up cloak and/or properly decloak and that toggle will work correctly
They work properly and correctly on PTS atm.
with no load. The horror of live will make anything requiring timing useless.
Oh the misery of using abilities properly on live server and facing the consequences of server load. I bet no other class experiences it.
brother, condescension isn't a look good.
We all know the more moving parts, the more it will fail. The toggles won't work consistently under load, half the time I have 4 second skill lag in blackreach as it is, so this is going to be marvelous to try and coordinate after 7 years of a skill working in a particular way. And a baseline skill changing after 10 years is just bad game design.
PCNA
PCEU6 -
NArt✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Shadowasrial wrote: »If this change goes live I will most certainly be quitting eso. And I have spent upwards of 25 grand on this game during the past 10 years iv played. Iv played nightblade exclusively. I have played every aspect of nightblade there is and if this goes live its going to kill the nb population in PvP which is already at record low numbers since cyrodil hasn’t gotten any love in at least 6 years. And all before a new battleground system I was super excited to try. Cloak in PvP is the core defense and offensive tool in combat. We use it to heal, we use it to line up an attack we use it to escape we use it to position ourselves for a quick scroll grab. This skill is the soul of the nightblades kit in PvP. To change it like this is just plain sacrilegious. How are we supposed to effectively weave attacks when our only defense doesn’t allow recovery? And in magika nb’s case it will greatly affect offensive and defensive capabilities. Now if they wish to cloak and line up an attack they will be greatly handicapping themselves on resources just to get close to the target and then if you line up your attack and IT FAILS thanks to no magika recovery you can’t escape, you can’t heal and you can’t continue to apply pressure. If you fail to kill your target while using cloak your going to die because we all know out of resources means death in PvP.
There are other games coming out next year that I will happily invest in if this goes live. This game has been my core game for 10 years and if they ruin my class like this then I’m going to up and take my money to my second favorite game monster hunter. With monster hunter wilds shaping up to be the best monster hunter game ever if this change goes live I will have next to no reason to return to eso.
I really recommend trying a tanky Dark cloak build with sword and board back bar. Ambush for gap closing.
I'm loving brawling face to face with stamblade.
The guy writes very correct information. I too have been playing NB for 5 years and have tried everything I can think of. And of course, tried to get rid of invisibility because it is a very weak and unreliable skill. Can't play tank in pvp (shield + shadow heal), very weak. And I haven't met a single NB that is strong in this build. In all the time I have not met.
Then scribing happened... Now it's possible.
The effectiveness of craft spell shields = 60% of the effectiveness of native class shields (who has them). I've reassembled everything, there's nothing useful there1 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Shadowasrial wrote: »If this change goes live I will most certainly be quitting eso. And I have spent upwards of 25 grand on this game during the past 10 years iv played. Iv played nightblade exclusively. I have played every aspect of nightblade there is and if this goes live its going to kill the nb population in PvP which is already at record low numbers since cyrodil hasn’t gotten any love in at least 6 years. And all before a new battleground system I was super excited to try. Cloak in PvP is the core defense and offensive tool in combat. We use it to heal, we use it to line up an attack we use it to escape we use it to position ourselves for a quick scroll grab. This skill is the soul of the nightblades kit in PvP. To change it like this is just plain sacrilegious. How are we supposed to effectively weave attacks when our only defense doesn’t allow recovery? And in magika nb’s case it will greatly affect offensive and defensive capabilities. Now if they wish to cloak and line up an attack they will be greatly handicapping themselves on resources just to get close to the target and then if you line up your attack and IT FAILS thanks to no magika recovery you can’t escape, you can’t heal and you can’t continue to apply pressure. If you fail to kill your target while using cloak your going to die because we all know out of resources means death in PvP.
There are other games coming out next year that I will happily invest in if this goes live. This game has been my core game for 10 years and if they ruin my class like this then I’m going to up and take my money to my second favorite game monster hunter. With monster hunter wilds shaping up to be the best monster hunter game ever if this change goes live I will have next to no reason to return to eso.
I really recommend trying a tanky Dark cloak build with sword and board back bar. Ambush for gap closing.
I'm loving brawling face to face with stamblade.
The guy writes very correct information. I too have been playing NB for 5 years and have tried everything I can think of. And of course, tried to get rid of invisibility because it is a very weak and unreliable skill. Can't play tank in pvp (shield + shadow heal), very weak. And I haven't met a single NB that is strong in this build. In all the time I have not met.
Then scribing happened... Now it's possible.
The effectiveness of craft spell shields = 60% of the effectiveness of native class shields (who has them). I've reassembled everything, there's nothing useful there
You dont need shields.0 -
Galeriano2✭✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »Toggle is horrible , as you need switch skill bar or slot cloak in both bar, that does make its easy to use, especially for PvP resource management
Why not Keep current cloak just remove mag recovery ?
Or You can just perform an action that ends cloak? As far as resource managment goes using siphoning attacks+rally will be a childs play after changes to cloak and that combo will allow You to stay in cloak almost permanently on any type of nightblade.
In live server, cast cloak , run away, cloak end, auto switch to HIDE, if eye open , cast again
In PTS, need untoggle it, or mag drain constantly, this is big difference, need 1 step to switch between invisible and hide
On PTS cast cloak than stay in cloak forever by using rally+siphoning attacks. And when You're in safe spot just stop there and stay in cloak while it gets 50% cost reduction and magicka regen is no longer halted.Edited by Galeriano2 on October 8, 2024 6:50PM2 -
Galeriano2✭✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Toggle is horrible , as you need switch skill bar or slot cloak in both bar, that does make its easy to use, especially for PvP resource management
Why not Keep current cloak just remove mag recovery ?
Or You can just perform an action that ends cloak? As far as resource managment goes using siphoning attacks+rally will be a childs play after changes to cloak and that combo will allow You to stay in cloak almost permanently on any type of nightblade.
I like how you thing things will work in time to keep up cloak and/or properly decloak and that toggle will work correctly
They work properly and correctly on PTS atm.
with no load. The horror of live will make anything requiring timing useless.
Oh the misery of using abilities properly on live server and facing the consequences of server load. I bet no other class experiences it.
brother, condescension isn't a look good.
We all know the more moving parts, the more it will fail. The toggles won't work consistently under load, half the time I have 4 second skill lag in blackreach as it is, so this is going to be marvelous to try and coordinate after 7 years of a skill working in a particular way. And a baseline skill changing after 10 years is just bad game design.
So what You're saying is that cloak will be basically working under load like plethora of other abilities? Because guess what pretty much everything have issues working properly under load. Funnily enough the class most plagued by this issues atm is propably sorc. 3 core abilities in his kit (hardened ward, dark exchange and streak) cause multiple issues and bugs for the user under the load yet class remains one of the strongest in PvP.
Going by Your logic ZoS should also remove acces to spammable burst heals for nightblade since nightblade didn't had them for years. I havn't seen nightblades complaining when this was changed.3 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Toggle is horrible , as you need switch skill bar or slot cloak in both bar, that does make its easy to use, especially for PvP resource management
Why not Keep current cloak just remove mag recovery ?
Or You can just perform an action that ends cloak? As far as resource managment goes using siphoning attacks+rally will be a childs play after changes to cloak and that combo will allow You to stay in cloak almost permanently on any type of nightblade.
I like how you thing things will work in time to keep up cloak and/or properly decloak and that toggle will work correctly
They work properly and correctly on PTS atm.
with no load. The horror of live will make anything requiring timing useless.
Oh the misery of using abilities properly on live server and facing the consequences of server load. I bet no other class experiences it.
brother, condescension isn't a look good.
We all know the more moving parts, the more it will fail. The toggles won't work consistently under load, half the time I have 4 second skill lag in blackreach as it is, so this is going to be marvelous to try and coordinate after 7 years of a skill working in a particular way. And a baseline skill changing after 10 years is just bad game design.
So what You're saying is that cloak will be basically working under load like plethora of other abilities? Because guess what pretty much everything have issues working properly under load. Funnily enough the class most plagued by this issues atm is propably sorc. 3 core abilities in his kit (hardened ward, dark exchange and streak) cause multiple issues and bugs for the user under the load yet class remains one of the strongest in PvP.
Going by Your logic ZoS should also remove acces to spammable burst heals for nightblade since nightblade didn't had them for years. I havn't seen nightblades complaining when this was changed.
Anybody can have a burst heal with healing soul burst. It's better than healthy offering imo.4 -
blktauna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Galeriano2 wrote: »
So what You're saying is that cloak will be basically working under load like plethora of other abilities? Because guess what pretty much everything have issues working properly under load. Funnily enough the class most plagued by this issues atm is propably sorc. 3 core abilities in his kit (hardened ward, dark exchange and streak) cause multiple issues and bugs for the user under the load yet class remains one of the strongest in PvP.
Going by Your logic ZoS should also remove acces to spammable burst heals for nightblade since nightblade didn't had them for years. I havn't seen nightblades complaining when this was changed.
Where do you read that?
I get you hate cloak. You made that plain. Where are you getting anything about heal?
Changing the mechanic of cloak after 10 years is stupid and pointless.
PCNA
PCEU4 -
Caecus0✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Toggle is horrible , as you need switch skill bar or slot cloak in both bar, that does make its easy to use, especially for PvP resource management
Why not Keep current cloak just remove mag recovery ?
Or You can just perform an action that ends cloak? As far as resource managment goes using siphoning attacks+rally will be a childs play after changes to cloak and that combo will allow You to stay in cloak almost permanently on any type of nightblade.
In live server, cast cloak , run away, cloak end, auto switch to HIDE, if eye open , cast again
In PTS, need untoggle it, or mag drain constantly, this is big difference, need 1 step to switch between invisible and hide
On PTS cast cloak than stay in cloak forever by using rally+siphoning attacks. And when You're in safe spot just stop there and stay in cloak while it gets 50% cost reduction and magicka regen is no longer halted.
Firstly, this means the NB needs to use 2h to stay in Cloak forever. Not a big deal, but it is worth noting. Another problem is, where are you getting that 50% cost reduction and Magicka regen not being halted? This is not listed in the patch notes at all.
And once again, if the issue is NBs can perma/spam invis, even WITH the toggle, doesn't this mean a scaling cost would solve this problem because Rally would not be able to outpace the cost of the Siphoning Attacks once you stack Cloak costs too high? (try spam casting Cloak once it reaches 200% increased cost, which is 6 consecutive casts for up to 18 seconds. Go on, I dare you). What exactly is the point here?
EDIT: I double checked the patch notes and realized I didn't notice they implemented that change you mentioned. That was my mistake. Now people can literally just keep it up literally forever as long as they stay still... I'm not sure what ZoS is doing with this here.Edited by Caecus0 on October 8, 2024 11:01PM0 -
Galeriano2✭✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »
So what You're saying is that cloak will be basically working under load like plethora of other abilities? Because guess what pretty much everything have issues working properly under load. Funnily enough the class most plagued by this issues atm is propably sorc. 3 core abilities in his kit (hardened ward, dark exchange and streak) cause multiple issues and bugs for the user under the load yet class remains one of the strongest in PvP.
Going by Your logic ZoS should also remove acces to spammable burst heals for nightblade since nightblade didn't had them for years. I havn't seen nightblades complaining when this was changed.
Where do you read that?
I get you hate cloak. You made that plain. Where are you getting anything about heal?
Changing the mechanic of cloak after 10 years is stupid and pointless.
Malevolent offering in its current form was added to nightblade kit in november 2021. Up until that point which is 7,5 years nightblade class was balanced around and defined by not having acces to a strong spammable burst heal while having cloak. I would say this change was actually more significant for a nightblade playstyle than cloak change will be. Combined with hybrydisation it started completly new era of how nightblade is being played. Lots of issues followed and current change to cloak is partially a consequence of that change to malevolent offering.
I guess You would also want old shadow image that required enemy target to be placed or old siphoning attacks back because these abilities also worked in a certain way for many years? Lots of currently important and usefull abilities in nightblade's kit didn't work they way they do for many years. Majority of them was buffed. Changing them was also stupid and pointless I guess?
I don't hate cloak in itself (although I consider it very poorly designed from the beggining) I just don't like the argument going like "it shouldn't be touched because it worked in a certain way for years".Edited by Galeriano2 on October 9, 2024 5:55PM5 -
Galeriano2✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Toggle is horrible , as you need switch skill bar or slot cloak in both bar, that does make its easy to use, especially for PvP resource management
Why not Keep current cloak just remove mag recovery ?
Or You can just perform an action that ends cloak? As far as resource managment goes using siphoning attacks+rally will be a childs play after changes to cloak and that combo will allow You to stay in cloak almost permanently on any type of nightblade.
I like how you thing things will work in time to keep up cloak and/or properly decloak and that toggle will work correctly
They work properly and correctly on PTS atm.
with no load. The horror of live will make anything requiring timing useless.
Oh the misery of using abilities properly on live server and facing the consequences of server load. I bet no other class experiences it.
brother, condescension isn't a look good.
We all know the more moving parts, the more it will fail. The toggles won't work consistently under load, half the time I have 4 second skill lag in blackreach as it is, so this is going to be marvelous to try and coordinate after 7 years of a skill working in a particular way. And a baseline skill changing after 10 years is just bad game design.
So what You're saying is that cloak will be basically working under load like plethora of other abilities? Because guess what pretty much everything have issues working properly under load. Funnily enough the class most plagued by this issues atm is propably sorc. 3 core abilities in his kit (hardened ward, dark exchange and streak) cause multiple issues and bugs for the user under the load yet class remains one of the strongest in PvP.
Going by Your logic ZoS should also remove acces to spammable burst heals for nightblade since nightblade didn't had them for years. I havn't seen nightblades complaining when this was changed.
Anybody can have a burst heal with healing soul burst. It's better than healthy offering imo.
That's only a thing since 4 months in a game that is 10,5 years old though. Nightblade had no acces to strong spammable burst heal up until november 2021 which is over 7 years.
Person I was responding to was arguing that change to cloak shouldn't happen because class worked in a a certain way for years so going by this logic nightblade should also never recive acces to spammable burstheals.Edited by Galeriano2 on October 9, 2024 6:02PM3 -
Galeriano2✭✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Toggle is horrible , as you need switch skill bar or slot cloak in both bar, that does make its easy to use, especially for PvP resource management
Why not Keep current cloak just remove mag recovery ?
Or You can just perform an action that ends cloak? As far as resource managment goes using siphoning attacks+rally will be a childs play after changes to cloak and that combo will allow You to stay in cloak almost permanently on any type of nightblade.
In live server, cast cloak , run away, cloak end, auto switch to HIDE, if eye open , cast again
In PTS, need untoggle it, or mag drain constantly, this is big difference, need 1 step to switch between invisible and hide
On PTS cast cloak than stay in cloak forever by using rally+siphoning attacks. And when You're in safe spot just stop there and stay in cloak while it gets 50% cost reduction and magicka regen is no longer halted.
Firstly, this means the NB needs to use 2h to stay in Cloak forever. Not a big deal, but it is worth noting. Another problem is, where are you getting that 50% cost reduction and Magicka regen not being halted? This is not listed in the patch notes at all.
And once again, if the issue is NBs can perma/spam invis, even WITH the toggle, doesn't this mean a scaling cost would solve this problem because Rally would not be able to outpace the cost of the Siphoning Attacks once you stack Cloak costs too high? (try spam casting Cloak once it reaches 200% increased cost, which is 6 consecutive casts for up to 18 seconds. Go on, I dare you). What exactly is the point here?
EDIT: I double checked the patch notes and realized I didn't notice they implemented that change you mentioned. That was my mistake. Now people can literally just keep it up literally forever as long as they stay still... I'm not sure what ZoS is doing with this here.
Yes that's actually my point that outside of situations where game is heavily choking or someone is panicking a lot, turning invisible and staying that way will be even easier than it is right now.
I am not a big fan of ramping cost idea on cloak though. That's too punishing imo in situations where cloak fails to deliver desired effect and it's being broken early. It would punish too much average stamblade players since they couldn't even afford to have 1 cloak broken early. That's a bit too restrictive. You get around +210% after 5 consecutive casts since it's an exponential growth.
What ZoS is doing with this new change is just encouraging people to play gankerspreferably ranged ones.1 -
Caecus0✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Toggle is horrible , as you need switch skill bar or slot cloak in both bar, that does make its easy to use, especially for PvP resource management
Why not Keep current cloak just remove mag recovery ?
Or You can just perform an action that ends cloak? As far as resource managment goes using siphoning attacks+rally will be a childs play after changes to cloak and that combo will allow You to stay in cloak almost permanently on any type of nightblade.
In live server, cast cloak , run away, cloak end, auto switch to HIDE, if eye open , cast again
In PTS, need untoggle it, or mag drain constantly, this is big difference, need 1 step to switch between invisible and hide
On PTS cast cloak than stay in cloak forever by using rally+siphoning attacks. And when You're in safe spot just stop there and stay in cloak while it gets 50% cost reduction and magicka regen is no longer halted.
Firstly, this means the NB needs to use 2h to stay in Cloak forever. Not a big deal, but it is worth noting. Another problem is, where are you getting that 50% cost reduction and Magicka regen not being halted? This is not listed in the patch notes at all.
And once again, if the issue is NBs can perma/spam invis, even WITH the toggle, doesn't this mean a scaling cost would solve this problem because Rally would not be able to outpace the cost of the Siphoning Attacks once you stack Cloak costs too high? (try spam casting Cloak once it reaches 200% increased cost, which is 6 consecutive casts for up to 18 seconds. Go on, I dare you). What exactly is the point here?
EDIT: I double checked the patch notes and realized I didn't notice they implemented that change you mentioned. That was my mistake. Now people can literally just keep it up literally forever as long as they stay still... I'm not sure what ZoS is doing with this here.
Yes that's actually my point that outside of situations where game is heavily choking or someone is panicking a lot, turning invisible and staying that way will be even easier than it is right now.
I am not a big fan of ramping cost idea on cloak though. That's too punishing imo in situations where cloak fails to deliver desired effect and it's being broken early. It would punish too much average stamblade players since they couldn't even afford to have 1 cloak broken early. That's a bit too restrictive. You get around +210% after 5 consecutive casts since it's an exponential growth.
What ZoS is doing with this new change is just encouraging people to play gankerspreferably ranged ones.
I agree with the sentiment that ZoS is encouraging a more ganker playstyle, although I think it is inadvertently. It's ironically the style a lot of players have issues with that is kind of getting away scott free.
The reason I am okay with the ramping cost NOW was strictly BECAUSE in update 43 they made it so less random stuff like DoTs pops them out of Cloak. I remember there being a thread asking for the ramping cost like with Streak and my reply to that thread was "I would be okay with a ramping cost once they fix a lot of random things breaking it." The idea being once it is more reliable, THEN we can discuss the ramping cost, because the "being broken early" is less of an issue. Not that I don't see your point.4 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭spaceghost8 wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
That is probably because ZOS established that when it comes to "non-detection" skills or potions, only Direct Damage can interrupt invisibility and those skills were DOT or Status effect. So in this case it was actually a bug fix.Turtle_Bot wrote: »spaceghost8 wrote: »
Now if weakness to elements and structured entropy counter cloak spammers as mentioned above maybe I overreacted, I will give it a try when I get home tonight
Weakness to elements and entropy got "fixed" last patch (U43) so that those abilities no longer break stealth or invisibility.
Here is the link to the PTS patch notes the screenshots were taken from
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/664131/pc-mac-patch-notes-v10-1-5-update-43#latest
Even if that was true, the fact that they wasted resources to fix a “bug” that has been in the game for probably 10 years, that was used to counter just to appease nightblade players further proves my point still… people think ZOS likes NBs but I don’t think that’s true, I think they r the loudest in the forums… One other thing that would be helpful is increasing the range of the detection skills from mages/fighters guild and cut the cost by half
The cost to de-cloak, so to speak, should be the same as the cost to cloak. That, imo, would be balanced.0 -
ioResult✭✭✭
You definitely can't do this in Cyrodiil when an army of tank meta zerglings is chasing you. It doesn't even work when a leaping DK is chasing you. You run out of Magicka because Mag regen is stopped the whole time you're moving. It makes melee Magblade impossible. You are forced to brawl. If I want to brawl I'll run a Warden any day over a Nightblade.Galeriano2 wrote: »On PTS cast cloak than stay in cloak forever by using rally+siphoning attacks. And when You're in safe spot just stop there and stay in cloak while it gets 50% cost reduction and magicka regen is no longer halted.
On Live I can cast Shadowy Disguise, and for 3 seconds I can try to escape while my Magicka regens. At the end of this I'm down ~800 Magicka because of regen. If they have a detect pot on me, I can try to LOS until the pot wears off and use Magicka to heal myself. Then repeat this again & again to try to get away or regen enough to re-engage in the fight.
On PTS? I toggle Shadowy Disguise and run. After 4 seconds over 8000 Magicka is GONE.
So I get one more second of invisibility on PTS than Live, but it literally costs TEN TIMES as much Magicka because regen is STOPPED the whole time?
That is a ridiculously huge nerf. Why wouldn't any Nightblade just run Stage 4 Vamp sprint instead next patch?
All this change to Shadowy Disguise does - as coded now - is force PVP Nightblades to use Stage 4 Vamp sprint like everyone else in Cyrodiil.
I have a change to propose instead:
1) Take Stage 4 Vamp sprint OUT of the Vampire skill line. Get rid of it. Invis pots are the only option for all classes but Nightblade.
2) Add the formerly Stage 4 Vamp sprint to stealth ability to the Nightblade class as a NIGHTBLADE PASSIVE now instead. Now ONLY Nightblades can use it and it takes only 2 seconds of sprinting for a Nightblade to become invisible instead of 4.
3) Remove Dark Cloak & Shadowy Disguise from the Nightblade class abilities completely. Replace them with something else.
Now no more clunky toggle and no stupid No Mag Regen. Nightblades can simply sprint to try to get away, just like any current Stage 4 Vamp can, but every other class loses this ability. Sounds like a fair trade to me.
But yeah ZOS...Cloak is the problem.
--
sudo rm -rf /
don't try this at ~7 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is one of the most stupid changes ever implemented in ESO. Toggles are clumsy, are unreliable in heavy stress (you try to switch it on, because of lag nothing happens so you press it once again aaaand you turn it off and so on). Also cloak have way to many counters in this situation, it should be broken ONLY by detection skills now, also detection potion should be gone now.
But it's not my problem anymore
I'm done with ESO, after 10 years they changed one of the most defining class skills into uselessness. Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge9 -
bladenick✭✭✭
You definitely can't do this in Cyrodiil when an army of tank meta zerglings is chasing you. It doesn't even work when a leaping DK is chasing you. You run out of Magicka because Mag regen is stopped the whole time you're moving. It makes melee Magblade impossible. You are forced to brawl. If I want to brawl I'll run a Warden any day over a Nightblade.Galeriano2 wrote: »On PTS cast cloak than stay in cloak forever by using rally+siphoning attacks. And when You're in safe spot just stop there and stay in cloak while it gets 50% cost reduction and magicka regen is no longer halted.
On Live I can cast Shadowy Disguise, and for 3 seconds I can try to escape while my Magicka regens. At the end of this I'm down ~800 Magicka because of regen. If they have a detect pot on me, I can try to LOS until the pot wears off and use Magicka to heal myself. Then repeat this again & again to try to get away or regen enough to re-engage in the fight.
On PTS? I toggle Shadowy Disguise and run. After 4 seconds over 8000 Magicka is GONE.
So I get one more second of invisibility on PTS than Live, but it literally costs TEN TIMES as much Magicka because regen is STOPPED the whole time?
That is a ridiculously huge nerf. Why wouldn't any Nightblade just run Stage 4 Vamp sprint instead next patch?
All this change to Shadowy Disguise does - as coded now - is force PVP Nightblades to use Stage 4 Vamp sprint like everyone else in Cyrodiil.
I have a change to propose instead:
1) Take Stage 4 Vamp sprint OUT of the Vampire skill line. Get rid of it. Invis pots are the only option for all classes but Nightblade.
2) Add the formerly Stage 4 Vamp sprint to stealth ability to the Nightblade class as a NIGHTBLADE PASSIVE now instead. Now ONLY Nightblades can use it and it takes only 2 seconds of sprinting for a Nightblade to become invisible instead of 4.
3) Remove Dark Cloak & Shadowy Disguise from the Nightblade class abilities completely. Replace them with something else.
Now no more clunky toggle and no stupid No Mag Regen. Nightblades can simply sprint to try to get away, just like any current Stage 4 Vamp can, but every other class loses this ability. Sounds like a fair trade to me.
It drain 32xx mana every 2 seconds, NOT 4000，but whatever if don’t build for cloak, you just cannot cast any mag ability as cloak drain mana too much
0 -
ioResult✭✭✭
It drains more than that when you're a Vampire, especially Stage 3. I suggest you go to Stage 3 Vamp next PTS update and see how much it costs.It drain 32xx mana every 2 seconds, NOT 4000，but whatever if don’t build for cloak, you just cannot cast any mag ability as cloak drain mana too muchBut yeah ZOS...Cloak is the problem.
--
sudo rm -rf /
don't try this at ~0 -
spaceghost8✭✭✭This is one of the most stupid changes ever implemented in ESO. Toggles are clumsy, are unreliable in heavy stress (you try to switch it on, because of lag nothing happens so you press it once again aaaand you turn it off and so on). Also cloak have way to many counters in this situation, it should be broken ONLY by detection skills now, also detection potion should be gone now.
But it's not my problem anymore I'm done with ESO, after 10 years they changed one of the most defining class skills into uselessness.
1. If u were truly dine u wouldn’t be commenting on the forums… as a skyrim vet this is kind of heaven
2. Stop being a 1 trick pony and learn other classes get ganked a few times them come back and tell us nightblade doesn’t need nerf1 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
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You definitely can't do this in Cyrodiil when an army of tank meta zerglings is chasing you. It doesn't even work when a leaping DK is chasing you. You run out of Magicka because Mag regen is stopped the whole time you're moving. It makes melee Magblade impossible. You are forced to brawl. If I want to brawl I'll run a Warden any day over a Nightblade.Galeriano2 wrote: »On PTS cast cloak than stay in cloak forever by using rally+siphoning attacks. And when You're in safe spot just stop there and stay in cloak while it gets 50% cost reduction and magicka regen is no longer halted.
On Live I can cast Shadowy Disguise, and for 3 seconds I can try to escape while my Magicka regens. At the end of this I'm down ~800 Magicka because of regen. If they have a detect pot on me, I can try to LOS until the pot wears off and use Magicka to heal myself. Then repeat this again & again to try to get away or regen enough to re-engage in the fight.
On PTS? I toggle Shadowy Disguise and run. After 4 seconds over 8000 Magicka is GONE.
So I get one more second of invisibility on PTS than Live, but it literally costs TEN TIMES as much Magicka because regen is STOPPED the whole time?
That is a ridiculously huge nerf. Why wouldn't any Nightblade just run Stage 4 Vamp sprint instead next patch?
All this change to Shadowy Disguise does - as coded now - is force PVP Nightblades to use Stage 4 Vamp sprint like everyone else in Cyrodiil.
I have a change to propose instead:
1) Take Stage 4 Vamp sprint OUT of the Vampire skill line. Get rid of it. Invis pots are the only option for all classes but Nightblade.
2) Add the formerly Stage 4 Vamp sprint to stealth ability to the Nightblade class as a NIGHTBLADE PASSIVE now instead. Now ONLY Nightblades can use it and it takes only 2 seconds of sprinting for a Nightblade to become invisible instead of 4.
3) Remove Dark Cloak & Shadowy Disguise from the Nightblade class abilities completely. Replace them with something else.
Now no more clunky toggle and no stupid No Mag Regen. Nightblades can simply sprint to try to get away, just like any current Stage 4 Vamp can, but every other class loses this ability. Sounds like a fair trade to me.
If you built tanky like every other brawlerblade you would have no issue with Cloak change.
In fact I’m gearing up my NB which I have not touched since 2022 and I will 1vX with it to prove a point lol.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc2 -
ioResult✭✭✭
You're not proving any point. Anyone - literally anyone with two thumbs - can run a brawler Nightblade today and be successful at it in Cyrodiil. It is the one playstyle of Nightblade that is in fact, OP. Any idiot can play it if they can play a DK, Warden or Sorc.StaticWave wrote: »If you built tanky like every other brawlerblade you would have no issue with Cloak change.
In fact I’m gearing up my NB which I have not touched since 2022 and I will 1vX with it to prove a point lol.
The point is we don't WANT to play our Nightblades that way because there is literally no challenge to it. I already said in a previous post that if I wanted to brawl and play EZ Mode PvP that I'd literally just play my Warden in Cyrodiil.
Get on your squishy Nightblade and try NOT to be a brawler. TRY to play the class the way it was intended when the game was first launched. I'll bet anything that you'll be exactly like the rest of the sweaties on DKs, Wardens & Sorcs when they try to play a squishy Nightblade and you'll run right back onto your tanky toon just like they did once you get clapped ten times in 2 minutes on a squishy Nightblade.
STOP trying to tell us to brawl. We KNOW we can brawl. ANY idiot can brawl on a Nightblade. It's dead simple. It's easy with the tank meta plus Scribing to play ANY class nowadays as a tanky zergling. It literally takes no skill these days to play a tanky build of any class and surf the zerg. We have no idea who you think you're proving anything to if you haven't played a Nightblade in nearly 3 years and your plan is to go full Brawblade. You will impress no one. We don't care. You don't play Nightblade. Why are you even in this thread?But yeah ZOS...Cloak is the problem.
--
sudo rm -rf /
don't try this at ~11 -
Caecus0✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »
You definitely can't do this in Cyrodiil when an army of tank meta zerglings is chasing you. It doesn't even work when a leaping DK is chasing you. You run out of Magicka because Mag regen is stopped the whole time you're moving. It makes melee Magblade impossible. You are forced to brawl. If I want to brawl I'll run a Warden any day over a Nightblade.Galeriano2 wrote: »On PTS cast cloak than stay in cloak forever by using rally+siphoning attacks. And when You're in safe spot just stop there and stay in cloak while it gets 50% cost reduction and magicka regen is no longer halted.
On Live I can cast Shadowy Disguise, and for 3 seconds I can try to escape while my Magicka regens. At the end of this I'm down ~800 Magicka because of regen. If they have a detect pot on me, I can try to LOS until the pot wears off and use Magicka to heal myself. Then repeat this again & again to try to get away or regen enough to re-engage in the fight.
On PTS? I toggle Shadowy Disguise and run. After 4 seconds over 8000 Magicka is GONE.
So I get one more second of invisibility on PTS than Live, but it literally costs TEN TIMES as much Magicka because regen is STOPPED the whole time?
That is a ridiculously huge nerf. Why wouldn't any Nightblade just run Stage 4 Vamp sprint instead next patch?
All this change to Shadowy Disguise does - as coded now - is force PVP Nightblades to use Stage 4 Vamp sprint like everyone else in Cyrodiil.
I have a change to propose instead:
1) Take Stage 4 Vamp sprint OUT of the Vampire skill line. Get rid of it. Invis pots are the only option for all classes but Nightblade.
2) Add the formerly Stage 4 Vamp sprint to stealth ability to the Nightblade class as a NIGHTBLADE PASSIVE now instead. Now ONLY Nightblades can use it and it takes only 2 seconds of sprinting for a Nightblade to become invisible instead of 4.
3) Remove Dark Cloak & Shadowy Disguise from the Nightblade class abilities completely. Replace them with something else.
Now no more clunky toggle and no stupid No Mag Regen. Nightblades can simply sprint to try to get away, just like any current Stage 4 Vamp can, but every other class loses this ability. Sounds like a fair trade to me.
If you built tanky like every other brawlerblade you would have no issue with Cloak change.
In fact I’m gearing up my NB which I have not touched since 2022 and I will 1vX with it to prove a point lol.
"Rebuild your class around the nerf" is a weak point. Everyone does this anyway no matter the class. The reason this doesn't affect brawlerblade that much is because they could literally drop the skill from their bar and it would barely dent them because playing tanky DPS is ludicrously efficient and kinda braindead.
The question is if a nerf justified or if a change makes sense. Toggles are janky and unintuitive, at least with costs that high. A scaling cost would achieve the same end the devs are aiming for without the needless jank.
1 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
You're not proving any point. Anyone - literally anyone with two thumbs - can run a brawler Nightblade today and be successful at it in Cyrodiil. It is the one playstyle of Nightblade that is in fact, OP. Any idiot can play it if they can play a DK, Warden or Sorc.StaticWave wrote: »If you built tanky like every other brawlerblade you would have no issue with Cloak change.
In fact I’m gearing up my NB which I have not touched since 2022 and I will 1vX with it to prove a point lol.
The point is we don't WANT to play our Nightblades that way because there is literally no challenge to it. I already said in a previous post that if I wanted to brawl and play EZ Mode PvP that I'd literally just play my Warden in Cyrodiil.
Get on your squishy Nightblade and try NOT to be a brawler. TRY to play the class the way it was intended when the game was first launched. I'll bet anything that you'll be exactly like the rest of the sweaties on DKs, Wardens & Sorcs when they try to play a squishy Nightblade and you'll run right back onto your tanky toon just like they did once you get clapped ten times in 2 minutes on a squishy Nightblade.
STOP trying to tell us to brawl. We KNOW we can brawl. ANY idiot can brawl on a Nightblade. It's dead simple. It's easy with the tank meta plus Scribing to play ANY class nowadays as a tanky zergling. It literally takes no skill these days to play a tanky build of any class and surf the zerg. We have no idea who you think you're proving anything to if you haven't played a Nightblade in nearly 3 years and your plan is to go full Brawblade. You will impress no one. We don't care. You don't play Nightblade. Why are you even in this thread?
Cloak NB is easy. I played a gank SORC and I chose my fights and leave the fights at will when in trouble.
Don’t make it out like your gank spec is something super hard to do. It ain’t. If anything, it’s 5x harder to play a brawlerblade without Cloak. People tend to fold when they have to survive dmg from 5-6 players.
Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc5 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »
You definitely can't do this in Cyrodiil when an army of tank meta zerglings is chasing you. It doesn't even work when a leaping DK is chasing you. You run out of Magicka because Mag regen is stopped the whole time you're moving. It makes melee Magblade impossible. You are forced to brawl. If I want to brawl I'll run a Warden any day over a Nightblade.Galeriano2 wrote: »On PTS cast cloak than stay in cloak forever by using rally+siphoning attacks. And when You're in safe spot just stop there and stay in cloak while it gets 50% cost reduction and magicka regen is no longer halted.
On Live I can cast Shadowy Disguise, and for 3 seconds I can try to escape while my Magicka regens. At the end of this I'm down ~800 Magicka because of regen. If they have a detect pot on me, I can try to LOS until the pot wears off and use Magicka to heal myself. Then repeat this again & again to try to get away or regen enough to re-engage in the fight.
On PTS? I toggle Shadowy Disguise and run. After 4 seconds over 8000 Magicka is GONE.
So I get one more second of invisibility on PTS than Live, but it literally costs TEN TIMES as much Magicka because regen is STOPPED the whole time?
That is a ridiculously huge nerf. Why wouldn't any Nightblade just run Stage 4 Vamp sprint instead next patch?
All this change to Shadowy Disguise does - as coded now - is force PVP Nightblades to use Stage 4 Vamp sprint like everyone else in Cyrodiil.
I have a change to propose instead:
1) Take Stage 4 Vamp sprint OUT of the Vampire skill line. Get rid of it. Invis pots are the only option for all classes but Nightblade.
2) Add the formerly Stage 4 Vamp sprint to stealth ability to the Nightblade class as a NIGHTBLADE PASSIVE now instead. Now ONLY Nightblades can use it and it takes only 2 seconds of sprinting for a Nightblade to become invisible instead of 4.
3) Remove Dark Cloak & Shadowy Disguise from the Nightblade class abilities completely. Replace them with something else.
Now no more clunky toggle and no stupid No Mag Regen. Nightblades can simply sprint to try to get away, just like any current Stage 4 Vamp can, but every other class loses this ability. Sounds like a fair trade to me.
If you built tanky like every other brawlerblade you would have no issue with Cloak change.
In fact I’m gearing up my NB which I have not touched since 2022 and I will 1vX with it to prove a point lol.
"Rebuild your class around the nerf" is a weak point. Everyone does this anyway no matter the class. The reason this doesn't affect brawlerblade that much is because they could literally drop the skill from their bar and it would barely dent them because playing tanky DPS is ludicrously efficient and kinda braindead.
The question is if a nerf justified or if a change makes sense. Toggles are janky and unintuitive, at least with costs that high. A scaling cost would achieve the same end the devs are aiming for without the needless jank.
Rebuilding around a nerf isn’t a weak point. Non Cloak classes can still be a stage 4 vamp for invisibility. It does not affect performance in any way.
Also, why do NB gankers have this warped mindset that their playstyle is somehow more challenging than the typical brawler playstyle lol? I bet most of the NB gankers on this thread can’t survive more than 3 players in a normal build. I’ve seen it too many times. There is a reason why there are more gankers and less 1vXers, not the other way around. It’s infinitely easier to play as a ganker than to play as a 1vXer.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc4 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Toggle is horrible , as you need switch skill bar or slot cloak in both bar, that does make its easy to use, especially for PvP resource management
Why not Keep current cloak just remove mag recovery ?
Or You can just perform an action that ends cloak? As far as resource managment goes using siphoning attacks+rally will be a childs play after changes to cloak and that combo will allow You to stay in cloak almost permanently on any type of nightblade.
I like how you thing things will work in time to keep up cloak and/or properly decloak and that toggle will work correctly
They work properly and correctly on PTS atm.
with no load. The horror of live will make anything requiring timing useless.
Oh the misery of using abilities properly on live server and facing the consequences of server load. I bet no other class experiences it.
brother, condescension isn't a look good.
We all know the more moving parts, the more it will fail. The toggles won't work consistently under load, half the time I have 4 second skill lag in blackreach as it is, so this is going to be marvelous to try and coordinate after 7 years of a skill working in a particular way. And a baseline skill changing after 10 years is just bad game design.
So what You're saying is that cloak will be basically working under load like plethora of other abilities? Because guess what pretty much everything have issues working properly under load. Funnily enough the class most plagued by this issues atm is propably sorc. 3 core abilities in his kit (hardened ward, dark exchange and streak) cause multiple issues and bugs for the user under the load yet class remains one of the strongest in PvP.
Going by Your logic ZoS should also remove acces to spammable burst heals for nightblade since nightblade didn't had them for years. I havn't seen nightblades complaining when this was changed.
Anybody can have a burst heal with healing soul burst. It's better than healthy offering imo.
That's only a thing since 4 months in a game that is 10,5 years old though. Nightblade had no acces to strong spammable burst heal up until november 2021 which is over 7 years.
Person I was responding to was arguing that change to cloak shouldn't happen because class worked in a a certain way for years so going by this logic nightblade should also never recive acces to spammable burstheals.
I see what you're saying. I think sometimes a skill just sucks and needs to be fixed..like Templars Sun Shield.
Its hard to imagine somebody trying to be a decent PVE tank with a NB that didn't have a burst heal.
As for cloak...I struggle playing a nightblade, I found cloak too expensive. Adding the major savagery gave it more use, but I find being tanky to be the best on any class. I don't really have a problem countering cloak, camo hunter reveals them, or if I don't have that I can just hold block and tank whatever they're going to try, the I'll just heal and block, heal, block. They have to reveal themselves to attack, stun them and attack back.0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
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You definitely can't do this in Cyrodiil when an army of tank meta zerglings is chasing you. It doesn't even work when a leaping DK is chasing you. You run out of Magicka because Mag regen is stopped the whole time you're moving. It makes melee Magblade impossible. You are forced to brawl. If I want to brawl I'll run a Warden any day over a Nightblade.Galeriano2 wrote: »On PTS cast cloak than stay in cloak forever by using rally+siphoning attacks. And when You're in safe spot just stop there and stay in cloak while it gets 50% cost reduction and magicka regen is no longer halted.
On Live I can cast Shadowy Disguise, and for 3 seconds I can try to escape while my Magicka regens. At the end of this I'm down ~800 Magicka because of regen. If they have a detect pot on me, I can try to LOS until the pot wears off and use Magicka to heal myself. Then repeat this again & again to try to get away or regen enough to re-engage in the fight.
On PTS? I toggle Shadowy Disguise and run. After 4 seconds over 8000 Magicka is GONE.
So I get one more second of invisibility on PTS than Live, but it literally costs TEN TIMES as much Magicka because regen is STOPPED the whole time?
That is a ridiculously huge nerf. Why wouldn't any Nightblade just run Stage 4 Vamp sprint instead next patch?
All this change to Shadowy Disguise does - as coded now - is force PVP Nightblades to use Stage 4 Vamp sprint like everyone else in Cyrodiil.
I have a change to propose instead:
1) Take Stage 4 Vamp sprint OUT of the Vampire skill line. Get rid of it. Invis pots are the only option for all classes but Nightblade.
2) Add the formerly Stage 4 Vamp sprint to stealth ability to the Nightblade class as a NIGHTBLADE PASSIVE now instead. Now ONLY Nightblades can use it and it takes only 2 seconds of sprinting for a Nightblade to become invisible instead of 4.
3) Remove Dark Cloak & Shadowy Disguise from the Nightblade class abilities completely. Replace them with something else.
Now no more clunky toggle and no stupid No Mag Regen. Nightblades can simply sprint to try to get away, just like any current Stage 4 Vamp can, but every other class loses this ability. Sounds like a fair trade to me.
OR we can all stop nerfing things because of pvp, and drop the whole “everyone needs to change” because some niche pvpers are upset.
This game needs to stop acting like pvp is the pivot that the entire game has to rotate on. This philosophy has ruined racials, it’s ruined classes, it’s ruined armor and weapons, and it’s wrecking pve builds.
It’s like no one is allowed to have anything special or fun. Cool little class mechanics need to be discarded because some other class cries in pvp. It’s made all the base classes watered down, tepid versions of their former selves. Weapon skills and classes used to feel impactful, and dare I say it fun. Now we have class builds that avoid using class skills other than the ones that have a permanent buff if it’s on your bar. It’s dumb. Combat in eso is dumb.Edited by BlueRaven on October 12, 2024 1:04PM6 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭
You definitely can't do this in Cyrodiil when an army of tank meta zerglings is chasing you. It doesn't even work when a leaping DK is chasing you. You run out of Magicka because Mag regen is stopped the whole time you're moving. It makes melee Magblade impossible. You are forced to brawl. If I want to brawl I'll run a Warden any day over a Nightblade.Galeriano2 wrote: »On PTS cast cloak than stay in cloak forever by using rally+siphoning attacks. And when You're in safe spot just stop there and stay in cloak while it gets 50% cost reduction and magicka regen is no longer halted.
On Live I can cast Shadowy Disguise, and for 3 seconds I can try to escape while my Magicka regens. At the end of this I'm down ~800 Magicka because of regen. If they have a detect pot on me, I can try to LOS until the pot wears off and use Magicka to heal myself. Then repeat this again & again to try to get away or regen enough to re-engage in the fight.
On PTS? I toggle Shadowy Disguise and run. After 4 seconds over 8000 Magicka is GONE.
So I get one more second of invisibility on PTS than Live, but it literally costs TEN TIMES as much Magicka because regen is STOPPED the whole time?
That is a ridiculously huge nerf. Why wouldn't any Nightblade just run Stage 4 Vamp sprint instead next patch?
All this change to Shadowy Disguise does - as coded now - is force PVP Nightblades to use Stage 4 Vamp sprint like everyone else in Cyrodiil.
I have a change to propose instead:
1) Take Stage 4 Vamp sprint OUT of the Vampire skill line. Get rid of it. Invis pots are the only option for all classes but Nightblade.
2) Add the formerly Stage 4 Vamp sprint to stealth ability to the Nightblade class as a NIGHTBLADE PASSIVE now instead. Now ONLY Nightblades can use it and it takes only 2 seconds of sprinting for a Nightblade to become invisible instead of 4.
3) Remove Dark Cloak & Shadowy Disguise from the Nightblade class abilities completely. Replace them with something else.
Now no more clunky toggle and no stupid No Mag Regen. Nightblades can simply sprint to try to get away, just like any current Stage 4 Vamp can, but every other class loses this ability. Sounds like a fair trade to me.
OR we can all stop nerfing things because of pvp, and drop the whole “everyone needs to change” because some niche pvpers are upset.
This game needs to stop acting like pvp is the pivot that the entire game has to rotate on. This philosophy has ruined racials, it’s ruined classes, it’s ruined armor and weapons, and it’s wrecking pve builds.
It’s like no one is allowed to have anything special or fun. Cool little class mechanics need to be discarded because some other class cries in pvp. It’s made all the base classes watered down, tepid versions of their former selves. Weapon skills and classes used to feel impactful, and dare I say it fun. Now we have class builds that avoid using class skills other than the ones that have a permanent buff if it’s on your bar. It’s dumb. Combat in eso is dumb.
Just for clarity going by what you're saying it's not that combat is dumb it's the issue that pve and pvp use basically the same balancing rules other than battle spirit.
Both groups have people that have issues but the problem is ZOS won't balance independently. So what do you do when both complaints are valid but resolving one is tied to messing up the other? Honestly you just don't have them tied together
My point is don't blame pve pvp players for complaining. Blame a system that won't separate these things to allow them to be addressed.
It would be as if you went to the store and they told you soda now cost double because bird flu hit chicken crops hard this year.2 -
Caecus0✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »
You definitely can't do this in Cyrodiil when an army of tank meta zerglings is chasing you. It doesn't even work when a leaping DK is chasing you. You run out of Magicka because Mag regen is stopped the whole time you're moving. It makes melee Magblade impossible. You are forced to brawl. If I want to brawl I'll run a Warden any day over a Nightblade.Galeriano2 wrote: »On PTS cast cloak than stay in cloak forever by using rally+siphoning attacks. And when You're in safe spot just stop there and stay in cloak while it gets 50% cost reduction and magicka regen is no longer halted.
On Live I can cast Shadowy Disguise, and for 3 seconds I can try to escape while my Magicka regens. At the end of this I'm down ~800 Magicka because of regen. If they have a detect pot on me, I can try to LOS until the pot wears off and use Magicka to heal myself. Then repeat this again & again to try to get away or regen enough to re-engage in the fight.
On PTS? I toggle Shadowy Disguise and run. After 4 seconds over 8000 Magicka is GONE.
So I get one more second of invisibility on PTS than Live, but it literally costs TEN TIMES as much Magicka because regen is STOPPED the whole time?
That is a ridiculously huge nerf. Why wouldn't any Nightblade just run Stage 4 Vamp sprint instead next patch?
All this change to Shadowy Disguise does - as coded now - is force PVP Nightblades to use Stage 4 Vamp sprint like everyone else in Cyrodiil.
I have a change to propose instead:
1) Take Stage 4 Vamp sprint OUT of the Vampire skill line. Get rid of it. Invis pots are the only option for all classes but Nightblade.
2) Add the formerly Stage 4 Vamp sprint to stealth ability to the Nightblade class as a NIGHTBLADE PASSIVE now instead. Now ONLY Nightblades can use it and it takes only 2 seconds of sprinting for a Nightblade to become invisible instead of 4.
3) Remove Dark Cloak & Shadowy Disguise from the Nightblade class abilities completely. Replace them with something else.
Now no more clunky toggle and no stupid No Mag Regen. Nightblades can simply sprint to try to get away, just like any current Stage 4 Vamp can, but every other class loses this ability. Sounds like a fair trade to me.
If you built tanky like every other brawlerblade you would have no issue with Cloak change.
In fact I’m gearing up my NB which I have not touched since 2022 and I will 1vX with it to prove a point lol.
"Rebuild your class around the nerf" is a weak point. Everyone does this anyway no matter the class. The reason this doesn't affect brawlerblade that much is because they could literally drop the skill from their bar and it would barely dent them because playing tanky DPS is ludicrously efficient and kinda braindead.
The question is if a nerf justified or if a change makes sense. Toggles are janky and unintuitive, at least with costs that high. A scaling cost would achieve the same end the devs are aiming for without the needless jank.
Rebuilding around a nerf isn’t a weak point. Non Cloak classes can still be a stage 4 vamp for invisibility. It does not affect performance in any way.
Also, why do NB gankers have this warped mindset that their playstyle is somehow more challenging than the typical brawler playstyle lol? I bet most of the NB gankers on this thread can’t survive more than 3 players in a normal build. I’ve seen it too many times. There is a reason why there are more gankers and less 1vXers, not the other way around. It’s infinitely easier to play as a ganker than to play as a 1vXer.
Telling people to rebuild around a nerf IS a weak point if the change/nerf is questionable to begin with. The question is WHY should anyone HAVE to rebuild around the nerf. You can scream "just rebuild around the nerf" about ANY change, but doesn't address the question if the nerf/change is justified. ZoS could revert the buff to Hardened Ward and we could say "just rebuild around it." Then again, they could completely neuter Streak by completely removing the Blink and instead making it a massive movement speed bonus and we can still say "just rebuild around it." It doesn't address if the change makes sense.
And your point about Stage 4 Vampirism (Unnatural Movement) doesn't sense either. You are comparing Sprinting for 3 seconds to gain Cloak vs pressing a button and gaining Cloak. One is useful for traversing quickly and undisturbed, and ganking to an extent (using an attack makes you leave Sprint, which ends invisibility before the ability is casted), the other is an on-demand Cloak that can be used in combat for repositioning or damage since using an ability doesn't remove Cloak until it lands. The two abilities may both have Cloak, but that doesn't mean they function the same.
I'm also having trouble understanding your point comparing Brawlerblades and Gankblades. Brawlerblades (or Brawlers in general) are so good that you can 1vX with them, a feat most gankers can't achieve, but gankers are the ones easier to play as?
I'm not going to pretend being a ganker is easier or harder. It depends on the build, the player using it, and the person you are fighting. I'd argue Ganking is easier to play as against lower to intermediate skill level players because they don't know how to deal with it, but it starts to fall off against better players that know how to block and dodge. Brawlerblades (and Brawler builds in general) are easier to play across the board because of just how efficient Tanky-dps is in this game (for a multitude of reasons), which is why they tend to see more success in 1vX situations as well as duels. I go to a lot of dueling clubs and I hard guarantee you no one is bringing a gankblade unironically.
EDIT: GrammarEdited by Caecus0 on October 12, 2024 6:52PM1 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »
You definitely can't do this in Cyrodiil when an army of tank meta zerglings is chasing you. It doesn't even work when a leaping DK is chasing you. You run out of Magicka because Mag regen is stopped the whole time you're moving. It makes melee Magblade impossible. You are forced to brawl. If I want to brawl I'll run a Warden any day over a Nightblade.Galeriano2 wrote: »On PTS cast cloak than stay in cloak forever by using rally+siphoning attacks. And when You're in safe spot just stop there and stay in cloak while it gets 50% cost reduction and magicka regen is no longer halted.
On Live I can cast Shadowy Disguise, and for 3 seconds I can try to escape while my Magicka regens. At the end of this I'm down ~800 Magicka because of regen. If they have a detect pot on me, I can try to LOS until the pot wears off and use Magicka to heal myself. Then repeat this again & again to try to get away or regen enough to re-engage in the fight.
On PTS? I toggle Shadowy Disguise and run. After 4 seconds over 8000 Magicka is GONE.
So I get one more second of invisibility on PTS than Live, but it literally costs TEN TIMES as much Magicka because regen is STOPPED the whole time?
That is a ridiculously huge nerf. Why wouldn't any Nightblade just run Stage 4 Vamp sprint instead next patch?
All this change to Shadowy Disguise does - as coded now - is force PVP Nightblades to use Stage 4 Vamp sprint like everyone else in Cyrodiil.
I have a change to propose instead:
1) Take Stage 4 Vamp sprint OUT of the Vampire skill line. Get rid of it. Invis pots are the only option for all classes but Nightblade.
2) Add the formerly Stage 4 Vamp sprint to stealth ability to the Nightblade class as a NIGHTBLADE PASSIVE now instead. Now ONLY Nightblades can use it and it takes only 2 seconds of sprinting for a Nightblade to become invisible instead of 4.
3) Remove Dark Cloak & Shadowy Disguise from the Nightblade class abilities completely. Replace them with something else.
Now no more clunky toggle and no stupid No Mag Regen. Nightblades can simply sprint to try to get away, just like any current Stage 4 Vamp can, but every other class loses this ability. Sounds like a fair trade to me.
If you built tanky like every other brawlerblade you would have no issue with Cloak change.
In fact I’m gearing up my NB which I have not touched since 2022 and I will 1vX with it to prove a point lol.
"Rebuild your class around the nerf" is a weak point. Everyone does this anyway no matter the class. The reason this doesn't affect brawlerblade that much is because they could literally drop the skill from their bar and it would barely dent them because playing tanky DPS is ludicrously efficient and kinda braindead.
The question is if a nerf justified or if a change makes sense. Toggles are janky and unintuitive, at least with costs that high. A scaling cost would achieve the same end the devs are aiming for without the needless jank.
Rebuilding around a nerf isn’t a weak point. Non Cloak classes can still be a stage 4 vamp for invisibility. It does not affect performance in any way.
Also, why do NB gankers have this warped mindset that their playstyle is somehow more challenging than the typical brawler playstyle lol? I bet most of the NB gankers on this thread can’t survive more than 3 players in a normal build. I’ve seen it too many times. There is a reason why there are more gankers and less 1vXers, not the other way around. It’s infinitely easier to play as a ganker than to play as a 1vXer.
Telling people to rebuild around a nerf IS a weak point if the change/nerf is questionable to begin with. The question is WHY should anyone HAVE to rebuild around the nerf. You can scream "just rebuild around the nerf" about ANY change, but doesn't address the question if the nerf/change is justified. ZoS could revert the buff to Hardened Ward and we could say "just rebuild around it." Then again, they could completely neuter Streak by completely removing the Blink and instead making it a massive movement speed bonus and we can still say "just rebuild around it." It doesn't address if the change makes sense.
And your point about Stage 4 Vampirism (Unnatural Movement) doesn't sense either. You are comparing Sprinting for 3 seconds to gain Cloak vs pressing a button and gaining Cloak. One is useful for traversing quickly and undisturbed, and ganking to an extent (using an attack makes you leave Sprint, which ends invisibility before the ability is casted), the other is an on-demand Cloak that can be used in combat for repositioning or damage since using an ability doesn't remove Cloak until it lands. The two abilities may both have Cloak, but that doesn't mean they function the same.
I'm also having trouble understanding your point comparing Brawlerblades and Gankblades. Brawlerblades (or Brawlers in general) are so good that you can 1vX with them, a feat most gankers can't achieve, but gankers are the ones easier to play as?
I'm not going to pretend being a ganker is easier or harder. It depends on the build, the player using it, and the person you are fighting. I'd argue Ganking is easier to play as against lower to intermediate skill level players because they don't know how to deal with it, but it starts to fall off against better players that know how to block and dodge. Brawlerblades (and Brawler builds in general) are easier to play across the board because of just how efficient Tanky-dps is in this game (for a multitude of reasons), which is why they tend to see more success in 1vX situations as well as duels. I go to a lot of dueling clubs and I hard guarantee you no one is bringing a gankblade unironically.
EDIT: Grammar
Nerf is absolutely needed, the implementation is questionable for sure especially when you factor in lag.
At this point in the game to say build around something is credible for sure because as we all know ZOS has shown that the will either immediately back off of a change or stick with it for one or more patch cycles. This change is happening and like all the rest I've gone through in this game that have been forced upon me no matter how I feel, I'm just going to play it till the next change happens.
I main sorc and played mag sorc well before the ward buff and will play it well after the nerf if multiple times. That's just how ESO for better or worse but truth is at least every class gets to eventually be on top for a bit. It's not great balance but it's something and for now all we're going to get.1
