Nightblade changes

spaceghost8

This is great. It will be a net positive for PVP in general.

Nightblades are the main reason new players are afraid of pvp, and they were the main reason I hated pvp as a new player until I started building very tanky

I don’t mind dying, I don’t care for the nightblades high damage/healing, as long as they don’t get to hit me and hide hit me and hide indefinitely with impunity. I don’t have space for detect pots I need my potions for major prophecy/savagery major sorcery/brutality and sustain. Even if you use detect pots they are very fast so they just run away and many classes don’t have a gap closer

Nightblade is not fragile, it can now proc major resolve easily with path of darkness. Major resolve that lasts 18 seconds with 3 heavy armour (3 is the meta). Sorcerer, Dragon knight, Templar and Necromancer all have major resolve that lasts 20 seconds plus it can still cloak, what makes nightblade more fragile then those classes?

Major_Toughness

I thought everyone ran a gap closer? That's what all the sorc mains tell me on the forum, that Streak isn't a good skill because everyone uses a gap closer.

Some mixed information.

Anyhow a NBs damage isn't more than most other classes it's just less avoidable when it comes from stealth. Once a NB is out of stealth they generally aren't a problem. You can see the burst coming a mile off and it has cast times or travel times so even your grandma can react in time.

Other classes also rely on timing their burst with multiple skills which NB doesn't, it just has 2 of the hardest hitting abilities in the game. Making it stronger upfront compared to needing 3-9 seconds to get your burst lined up.

Without NBs Magsorc will be even more meta and even more prevalent in Cyrodiil, which was already far stronger than any other class.

DrSlaughtr

Nightblades wearing heavy armor are not using cloak that way. It doesn't make sense.

It's fresh playing a tank and then complaining about not being able to kill a character so we have to nerf it's class identity. If you want to kill, don't play a tank and stop worrying about dying.

It's cognitive bias to claim new players avoid PVP because of NBs. Just because you thought that doesn't mean it's prevailing wisdom. I think it's a lot more annoying to have a 30+ group fail to take anything because an 8 man tank comp cannot ever be defeated by competent damage dealers.

spaceghost8

Major both of these statements can’t be true “anyhow a NBs damage isn't more than most other classes it's just less avoidable”… “it just has 2 of the hardest hitting abilities in the game“… pick one

Dr every nightblade plays like that. Seeing a nightblade that doesn’t spam cloak is like seeing a unicorn.

Element of surprise is a huge advantage in a fight, balancing it so it doesn’t get abused is a long overdue change

bladenick

spaceghost8 wrote: »

Major both of these statements can’t be true “anyhow a NBs damage isn't more than most other classes it's just less avoidable”… “it just has 2 of the hardest hitting abilities in the game“… pick one

Dr every nightblade plays like that. Seeing a nightblade that doesn’t spam cloak is like seeing a unicorn.

Element of surprise is a huge advantage in a fight, balancing it so it doesn’t get abused is a long overdue change

For PVP, You won’t see any NB dare to combat in melee and cast cloak after this PTS patch on live.

There 2 type NB in furtrue, melee tanker NB use second cloak morph which restore HP and grant minor protection , the second is stem proc range bow ganker, which are the the only dps NB still possible to manage this crouch 2.0 shadow cloak. And most hated NB

New player still get one shot dead by this NB ganker, probably only NB you still can found in PVP after PTS patch online

ibeprofun

The shadowy disguise nerf is more than a nerf. This kills the class - the most popular pvp class in the game.

Why *** off so many people in a game this old?

This isn't a nerf, it ruins the entire class.

Who is making decisions?

Don't us players get a damn say?

We're the tools playing your game, we get a damn vote.

Go forward with shadowy disguise nerf and you will destroy the most popular class in pvp in a game that's 10 years old. The player base isn't going to GROW by NERFING the largest pvp class. This change WILL cause fewer people to play the game, as long time nughtblades like myself are calling this THE FINAL NERF!!!!!

opethmaniac

spaceghost8 wrote: »

Nightblades are the main reason new players are afraid of pvp, and they were the main reason I hated pvp as a new player until I started building very tanky

New players will dive into pvp with ~20k health. They will die against EVERY class. Often they forget to use food or reg pots and run around like headless chicken. This is not a problem with NBs.

Major_Toughness

spaceghost8 wrote: »

Major both of these statements can’t be true “anyhow a NBs damage isn't more than most other classes it's just less avoidable”… “it just has 2 of the hardest hitting abilities in the game“… pick one

Dr every nightblade plays like that. Seeing a nightblade that doesn’t spam cloak is like seeing a unicorn.

Element of surprise is a huge advantage in a fight, balancing it so it doesn’t get abused is a long overdue change

They can, and are both true. It is not particularly hard to understand.

With the exception of now having access to Contingency - so I will exclude this as every class can use this - NB has no delayed burst ability to line up with another skill.

For example Wardens have Deep Fissure, Templars backlash, Sorcs curse, Necros blastbones.

You average NB bow proc will hit 15-20k in a meta build.
Those other classes, except Templars nerfed backlash, will all hit 10k+ with their delayed burst abilities.
Time this with an ultimate, say Dawnbreaker, which will also hit 10-15k, you can easily hit a much higher burst than a NB.
But NB still have the single highest damage ability, which is why it doesn't need a delayed burst ability. But it definitely doesn't have the highest potential burst damage.

If you read the rest of the original comment it might help.

NyassaV

What if, the skill thats been in the game for 10 years, isn't as much the problem as the proc sets they've recently shoved into the game which emboldens gankers more.

Food for thought. Not that cloak doesn't need a numerical adjustment or two... But a redesign is unnecessary.

spaceghost8

Major_Toughness wrote: »

spaceghost8 wrote: »

Major both of these statements can’t be true “anyhow a NBs damage isn't more than most other classes it's just less avoidable”… “it just has 2 of the hardest hitting abilities in the game“… pick one

Dr every nightblade plays like that. Seeing a nightblade that doesn’t spam cloak is like seeing a unicorn.

Element of surprise is a huge advantage in a fight, balancing it so it doesn’t get abused is a long overdue change

They can, and are both true. It is not particularly hard to understand.

With the exception of now having access to Contingency - so I will exclude this as every class can use this - NB has no delayed burst ability to line up with another skill.

For example Wardens have Deep Fissure, Templars backlash, Sorcs curse, Necros blastbones.

You average NB bow proc will hit 15-20k in a meta build.
Those other classes, except Templars nerfed backlash, will all hit 10k+ with their delayed burst abilities.
Time this with an ultimate, say Dawnbreaker, which will also hit 10-15k, you can easily hit a much higher burst than a NB.
But NB still have the single highest damage ability, which is why it doesn't need a delayed burst ability. But it definitely doesn't have the highest potential burst damage.

If you read the rest of the original comment it might help.

I don’t think you understand what burst damage is… burst damage is doing the highest amount of damage in a short period… please tell me, what class has a higher burst damage than a nightblade? Tell me what class can do 2 skills and a light attack and kill a 30k health player

I already said I don’t care about the high damage/healing, it’s cloak spamming that’s the problem

spaceghost8

NyassaV wrote: »

What if, the skill thats been in the game for 10 years, isn't as much the problem as the proc sets they've recently shoved into the game which emboldens gankers more.

Food for thought. Not that cloak doesn't need a numerical adjustment or two... But a redesign is unnecessary.

I started playing the game right after the patch were oakensoul got nerfed and people were complaining about cloak and corrosive… corrosive has been here a long time as well and it just recently got balanced, now it’s cloaks turn… in my opinion it’s long overdue

Rohamad_Ali

I thought lag, ball groups and spicy zone chat were higher up on that list then nightblades.

silky_soft

Ok, so nb stealth nerfed for everyone execpt for low ping. So 75% of player base.

What's next?

I think resource management needs a look at. It needs a balance. Bring back 60% cost increase poisons. But don't specify it, just all skill and core abilities.

Monsters don't use poisons, so only a pvp balance.

I'd also like to see magika and stamina steal. That actually steals resources from other players. But that requires work, whereas poison already there.

Shadowasrial

If this change goes live I will most certainly be quitting eso. And I have spent upwards of 25 grand on this game during the past 10 years iv played. Iv played nightblade exclusively. I have played every aspect of nightblade there is and if this goes live its going to kill the nb population in PvP which is already at record low numbers since cyrodil hasn’t gotten any love in at least 6 years. And all before a new battleground system I was super excited to try. Cloak in PvP is the core defense and offensive tool in combat. We use it to heal, we use it to line up an attack we use it to escape we use it to position ourselves for a quick scroll grab. This skill is the soul of the nightblades kit in PvP. To change it like this is just plain sacrilegious. How are we supposed to effectively weave attacks when our only defense doesn’t allow recovery? And in magika nb’s case it will greatly affect offensive and defensive capabilities. Now if they wish to cloak and line up an attack they will be greatly handicapping themselves on resources just to get close to the target and then if you line up your attack and IT FAILS thanks to no magika recovery you can’t escape, you can’t heal and you can’t continue to apply pressure. If you fail to kill your target while using cloak your going to die because we all know out of resources means death in PvP.

There are other games coming out next year that I will happily invest in if this goes live. This game has been my core game for 10 years and if they ruin my class like this then I’m going to up and take my money to my second favorite game monster hunter. With monster hunter wilds shaping up to be the best monster hunter game ever if this change goes live I will have next to no reason to return to eso.

MincMincMinc

Shadowasrial wrote: »

If this change goes live I will most certainly be quitting eso.

Rather dramatic. How about think out clearly what is your issue with the change and advocate for it in a concise manner so zos may actually read it.

1. Do you have any issues with toggle?
2. Is the cost too high?
3. Is the mag cut an issue?

What is your solution to said issue?

1. I think the toggle is fine, it maintains stealth allowing easier incloak actions. It untoggles when I want it to. Actions I expect to remove me from cloak remove me. It saves recast ticks. In lag I can stay in stealth without worry timing the recast and end of 3s timer. If I need to end stealth there are client side actions like sprint which will go through in lag since they are not tied to a gcd timer.
2. I think the cost is fine (see next point on mag cut)
3. The mag cut is a MAJOR issue. A more favourable structure would be to have the initial cost with a RAMPING COST of 1400mag/tick. This allows for around 10-12s of cloak before factoring in cost reductions and recovery builds.

Kaysha

Shadowasrial wrote: »

If this change goes live I will most certainly be quitting eso. And I have spent upwards of 25 grand on this game during the past 10 years iv played. Iv played nightblade exclusively. I have played every aspect of nightblade there is and if this goes live its going to kill the nb population in PvP which is already at record low numbers since cyrodil hasn’t gotten any love in at least 6 years. And all before a new battleground system I was super excited to try. Cloak in PvP is the core defense and offensive tool in combat. We use it to heal, we use it to line up an attack we use it to escape we use it to position ourselves for a quick scroll grab. This skill is the soul of the nightblades kit in PvP. To change it like this is just plain sacrilegious. How are we supposed to effectively weave attacks when our only defense doesn’t allow recovery? And in magika nb’s case it will greatly affect offensive and defensive capabilities. Now if they wish to cloak and line up an attack they will be greatly handicapping themselves on resources just to get close to the target and then if you line up your attack and IT FAILS thanks to no magika recovery you can’t escape, you can’t heal and you can’t continue to apply pressure. If you fail to kill your target while using cloak your going to die because we all know out of resources means death in PvP.

There are other games coming out next year that I will happily invest in if this goes live. This game has been my core game for 10 years and if they ruin my class like this then I’m going to up and take my money to my second favorite game monster hunter. With monster hunter wilds shaping up to be the best monster hunter game ever if this change goes live I will have next to no reason to return to eso.

nothing to add here. To remove the core mechanic of a class 10 years after release is a no-go. Good bye and have fun with an empty Cyrodiil. No, you cannot have my stuff.

spaceghost8

Kaysha wrote: »

Shadowasrial wrote: »

If this change goes live I will most certainly be quitting eso. And I have spent upwards of 25 grand on this game during the past 10 years iv played. Iv played nightblade exclusively. I have played every aspect of nightblade there is and if this goes live its going to kill the nb population in PvP which is already at record low numbers since cyrodil hasn’t gotten any love in at least 6 years. And all before a new battleground system I was super excited to try. Cloak in PvP is the core defense and offensive tool in combat. We use it to heal, we use it to line up an attack we use it to escape we use it to position ourselves for a quick scroll grab. This skill is the soul of the nightblades kit in PvP. To change it like this is just plain sacrilegious. How are we supposed to effectively weave attacks when our only defense doesn’t allow recovery? And in magika nb’s case it will greatly affect offensive and defensive capabilities. Now if they wish to cloak and line up an attack they will be greatly handicapping themselves on resources just to get close to the target and then if you line up your attack and IT FAILS thanks to no magika recovery you can’t escape, you can’t heal and you can’t continue to apply pressure. If you fail to kill your target while using cloak your going to die because we all know out of resources means death in PvP.

There are other games coming out next year that I will happily invest in if this goes live. This game has been my core game for 10 years and if they ruin my class like this then I’m going to up and take my money to my second favorite game monster hunter. With monster hunter wilds shaping up to be the best monster hunter game ever if this change goes live I will have next to no reason to return to eso.

nothing to add here. To remove the core mechanic of a class 10 years after release is a no-go. Good bye and have fun with an empty Cyrodiil. No, you cannot have my stuff.

To be honest you are what’s wrong with pvp (assuming you are one of the hit hide hit hide nightblades) the game will be more fun without you… good bye, at least we will be getting a lot of newer players joining

Tommy_The_Gun

I honestly believe that when it comes to PvP, the thing that drives most potential players away are actually Ball Groups... NBs are non issue imho.

And there are tons of other problems that were never addressed by ZOS.
- Ball Groups - never got a single direct nerf for over 10 years.
- Scroll Trolling was never addressed either.
- Siege trolls ? Also never addressed. In fact, this type of behaviour is being promoted as they are getting new set.
- Doing PvE/PvD to win PvP campaign ? Never properly addressed too.
- Broken sets ? Yeah... they keep introducing more (I am looking at you, tarnished).

You see, there is a lot more "serious core pain points" I can bring, but the bottom line, is that I simply do think that Cyro and possibly IC are lost cause. I mean, look at the PvP player base that left the game and look at those who stayed. I mean pretty much almost every type of player or play style that stayed is um... "toxic one" (I mean no disrespect). I mean that it is just so weird to me to hear that people say that NBs specifically are the problem and making them a "Scape Goat", while we have so many other things that even the most toxic NB gank build pales in comparesment. Years of neglecting stuff and core "fair" gameplay. That tower that DC has ? It sill can only be accesed by DC players & use to defend scroll. Or that tree you can use to get on the wall of the keep ? Or that spot near Aleswell people use to troll with camp so others get stuck. Even minor issue like this were never patched.

Hence why I think that Cyro & IC are lost cause. ZOS most likely knows that & they realize that it is beyond fixing, hence why the seem to cater towards the only ones who stayed - which happens to be the most toxic ones. So, if they will nerf something cuz of PvP (which is actually pretty niche) and that nerf affects PvE - then it is just a waste that for the most part serves no one.

MincMincMinc

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I honestly believe that when it comes to PvP, the thing that drives most potential players away are actually Ball Groups... NBs are non issue imho.

And there are tons of other problems that were never addressed by ZOS.
- Ball Groups - never got a single direct nerf for over 10 years.
- Scroll Trolling was never addressed either.
- Siege trolls ? Also never addressed. In fact, this type of behaviour is being promoted as they are getting new set.
- Doing PvE/PvD to win PvP campaign ? Never properly addressed too.
- Broken sets ? Yeah... they keep introducing more (I am looking at you, tarnished).

You see, there is a lot more "serious core pain points" I can bring, but the bottom line, is that I simply do think that Cyro and possibly IC are lost cause. I mean, look at the PvP player base that left the game and look at those who stayed. I mean pretty much almost every type of player or play style that stayed is um... "toxic one" (I mean no disrespect). I mean that it is just so weird to me to hear that people say that NBs specifically are the problem and making them a "Scape Goat", while we have so many other things that even the most toxic NB gank build pales in comparesment. Years of neglecting stuff and core "fair" gameplay. That tower that DC has ? It sill can only be accesed by DC players & use to defend scroll. Or that tree you can use to get on the wall of the keep ? Or that spot near Aleswell people use to troll with camp so others get stuck. Even minor issue like this were never patched.

Hence why I think that Cyro & IC are lost cause. ZOS most likely knows that & they realize that it is beyond fixing, hence why the seem to cater towards the only ones who stayed - which happens to be the most toxic ones. So, if they will nerf something cuz of PvP (which is actually pretty niche) and that nerf affects PvE - then it is just a waste that for the most part serves no one.

I just find it funny how the pvp update was only geared towards bgs. I am willing to bet it involved a board meeting of some sort asking for numbers and player metric. Im sure they pulled up daily unique players and who would have guessed it, wow 10x the players did the 10 min daily bg match instead of going into cyrodil.

Cyro doesnt even need much to be happy. Map wise they could just change around and add some more assets. Example: south of aleswell keep there is a massive empty field and a small town. People love fighting inbetween the buildings, just add more.... that change takes less than a few hours if that.

Cut down on pvdoor. Make holding resources a requirement, breaking up players to be forced to split away from the 50 man ram blob. Get your average pug out of their comfort zone so they can actually learn to fight instead of sitting on walls.

Taking it further would be to introduce new transit lines and force seige only on conflicting transit lines. Similar tri faction games ended up doing this as population decreased. Worked out well for getting newer players to the frontlines. Instead of roaming a dead map. New transit lines from the outposts to trikeeps could open up pvp in the center bridge and goatpath areas.

System_Data

Yep, if ZOS wants to balance around a small subset of high-skilled players in a practically dead mode, when most players online are casuals then power to them. You'll continue to see a decrease in player base as people move to better balanced PvP games.

spaceghost8

Listen if I’m fighting u and u beat me that’s fair but if u pop up of nowhere and 2 tap me that’s not fair

MincMincMinc

System_Data wrote: »

Yep, if ZOS wants to balance around a small subset of high-skilled players in a practically dead mode, when most players online are casuals then power to them. You'll continue to see a decrease in player base as people move to better balanced PvP games.

How are they doing so? The toggle will undoubtably make it easier to use and allow for uninterrupted weaving and gank setups. Half of the bad nightblades fail to maintain stealth off cooldown and allow the red mist animation to appear.

bladenick

MincMincMinc wrote: »

System_Data wrote: »

Yep, if ZOS wants to balance around a small subset of high-skilled players in a practically dead mode, when most players online are casuals then power to them. You'll continue to see a decrease in player base as people move to better balanced PvP games.

How are they doing so? The toggle will undoubtably make it easier to use and allow for uninterrupted weaving and gank setups. Half of the bad nightblades fail to maintain stealth off cooldown and allow the red mist animation to appear.

The ganker stem build will benefit from this, as they don’t build mag recover, and don’t cast offense Skill cost mana, the cost is decrease and easy to cast for this king of build, it may the way dev want player to adapt, to fit the new dead mode 2 side BG

It may the only pvp dps NB left after PTS online

Any dps build use mana as main resource such as spam-able conceal weapon , need give up shadow disguise as it impossible to manage resource, stay invisible or cast it outside combat on purpose of approaching enemy in melee means sucicde , it end at been reveal with empty mana

StaticWave

If you're in this thread, just letting you know 7v1ing me doesn't make you a good NB lol

Jaimeh

spaceghost8 wrote: »

This is great. It will be a net positive for PVP in general.

Nightblades are the main reason new players are afraid of pvp, and they were the main reason I hated pvp as a new player until I started building very tanky

I don’t mind dying, I don’t care for the nightblades high damage/healing, as long as they don’t get to hit me and hide hit me and hide indefinitely with impunity. I don’t have space for detect pots I need my potions for major prophecy/savagery major sorcery/brutality and sustain. Even if you use detect pots they are very fast so they just run away and many classes don’t have a gap closer

They can't hide indefinitely, and there is punishment in the form of all the tools for detection and revealing available to others. And all good players make use of them. You can use inner light, or revealing flare, besides detect pots. If they can get caught they will likely die because this kind of build is meant to be glass canon so it can be effective, so there is a very big downside to it as well.

I_CraftwithPntButter

So you made the dark cloak morph ( previously) to help/encourage NB tanking (if memory serves) , this patch you gave the other morph a pve bonus against monsters. Still not sure if the bonus is viable, or who asked for it in the first place . If making classes more pve focused or friendly is the direction your going, why not make the morph give or contribute something to the group ? Something NBs have less to offer compared to other classes.

Also how is this a pvp balance , in a patch where the focus is supposed to be a battle ground update ?

Look I get that you dont want NBs running around in near infinite cloak for counter play reasons, but at the same time. The skill in question is part of it's identity. Just as other skills define other classes.

To my knowledge the devs are far more capable and creative of coming up with a pvp solution to this " issue" , other than " let's make it expensive to use" . Because making cloak expensive to use is all I'm really seeing if this is the solution.

However, if my faith in their creativity is wrong . That this is the best the devs can come up with and this trend continues to add taunts ( templar this patch), empower, and bonus damage to monsters to this class and others each patch. Then just shut down pvp and focus on pve, cause the changes above will contradict any statement or comment , that there is a focus and concern for pvp in this game. Because as of this coming patch , cloak is a pve skill regardless of which morph you chose , imo.

Wycks

This is a dumb change, I've played NB since day 1 and was one of the first 5 star NB's in Cyro before they buffed PvP exp.

I don't like toggle skills that are linked to a core ability, it's really that simple. It's very unlikely ill play my NB with this change.

How about this instead:
1. Fix Cloak - It's currently bugged with several items sets that break stealth which makes them useless (sheer venom for example)
2. Instead of this stupid change, nerf the 1 trick pony that is Merciless Resolve (usually combined with Tarn). NB's actually need some love in in the overall diversity of builds.

It would be cool to make NB high risk against tanks and healers, and not just obliterate new players with 2 button presses and a proc.

CameraBeardThePirate

Kaysha wrote: »

Shadowasrial wrote: »

If this change goes live I will most certainly be quitting eso. And I have spent upwards of 25 grand on this game during the past 10 years iv played. Iv played nightblade exclusively. I have played every aspect of nightblade there is and if this goes live its going to kill the nb population in PvP which is already at record low numbers since cyrodil hasn’t gotten any love in at least 6 years. And all before a new battleground system I was super excited to try. Cloak in PvP is the core defense and offensive tool in combat. We use it to heal, we use it to line up an attack we use it to escape we use it to position ourselves for a quick scroll grab. This skill is the soul of the nightblades kit in PvP. To change it like this is just plain sacrilegious. How are we supposed to effectively weave attacks when our only defense doesn’t allow recovery? And in magika nb’s case it will greatly affect offensive and defensive capabilities. Now if they wish to cloak and line up an attack they will be greatly handicapping themselves on resources just to get close to the target and then if you line up your attack and IT FAILS thanks to no magika recovery you can’t escape, you can’t heal and you can’t continue to apply pressure. If you fail to kill your target while using cloak your going to die because we all know out of resources means death in PvP.

There are other games coming out next year that I will happily invest in if this goes live. This game has been my core game for 10 years and if they ruin my class like this then I’m going to up and take my money to my second favorite game monster hunter. With monster hunter wilds shaping up to be the best monster hunter game ever if this change goes live I will have next to no reason to return to eso.

nothing to add here. To remove the core mechanic of a class 10 years after release is a no-go. Good bye and have fun with an empty Cyrodiil. No, you cannot have my stuff.

Please enlighten me on how they're removing cloak.

argonian37

spaceghost8 wrote: »

Kaysha wrote: »

Shadowasrial wrote: »

If this change goes live I will most certainly be quitting eso. And I have spent upwards of 25 grand on this game during the past 10 years iv played. Iv played nightblade exclusively. I have played every aspect of nightblade there is and if this goes live its going to kill the nb population in PvP which is already at record low numbers since cyrodil hasn’t gotten any love in at least 6 years. And all before a new battleground system I was super excited to try. Cloak in PvP is the core defense and offensive tool in combat. We use it to heal, we use it to line up an attack we use it to escape we use it to position ourselves for a quick scroll grab. This skill is the soul of the nightblades kit in PvP. To change it like this is just plain sacrilegious. How are we supposed to effectively weave attacks when our only defense doesn’t allow recovery? And in magika nb’s case it will greatly affect offensive and defensive capabilities. Now if they wish to cloak and line up an attack they will be greatly handicapping themselves on resources just to get close to the target and then if you line up your attack and IT FAILS thanks to no magika recovery you can’t escape, you can’t heal and you can’t continue to apply pressure. If you fail to kill your target while using cloak your going to die because we all know out of resources means death in PvP.

There are other games coming out next year that I will happily invest in if this goes live. This game has been my core game for 10 years and if they ruin my class like this then I’m going to up and take my money to my second favorite game monster hunter. With monster hunter wilds shaping up to be the best monster hunter game ever if this change goes live I will have next to no reason to return to eso.

nothing to add here. To remove the core mechanic of a class 10 years after release is a no-go. Good bye and have fun with an empty Cyrodiil. No, you cannot have my stuff.

To be honest you are what’s wrong with pvp (assuming you are one of the hit hide hit hide nightblades) the game will be more fun without you… good bye, at least we will be getting a lot of newer players joining

With my respect… thinking that is not the horrible lag during ball groups battles, the disconnects and crashes at randomly anytime, the boring never-dying-go-around-in circles-around-towers-fight-until-you-die-in -real-life meta that we have with every player with ridiculous hp, resistances and insane burst (that guess what, is useless because everyone is insanely tanky so is hard to kill anyone), the general lag and problems, etc etc and a very common lack of PVP builds and knowledge of how they work by newbies are not what keeps PVErs out of Cyro but instead some ganker oneshotting them is a very biased idea. The idea that a PVEr will enter to your oneiric gankless Cyrodiil and will immediately fall in love with a game mode where everyone is a tank or has incredible strong shields with incredible burst damage that will melt this new player in 1 gcd is very biased and delusional, sorry. Actually I think that with playing a protoganker with cloak you offer that new player at least a chance to be near the battlefield and see what happens around and not be melted in a fraction of a second by everyone. And not just that, having squishy nightblades around gives this hypotetical new player easier players to start having kills and have fun. When you start understanding how PVP works in this game your very first kills are bad squishy nightblades, not tanksorcs, neither dks.

ioResult

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Shadowasrial wrote: »

If this change goes live I will most certainly be quitting eso.

Rather dramatic. How about think out clearly what is your issue with the change and advocate for it in a concise manner so zos may actually read it.

1. Do you have any issues with toggle?
2. Is the cost too high?
3. Is the mag cut an issue?

It's not dramatic, it is a common sentiment of 90% of the Nightblade PvP mains. There are at least 3 Nightblade PvP guilds on PC/NA and the vast majority of the players polled in those guilds have said if this change goes through as is they will at best try it for a couple of weeks before doing one of two things:

1. Quit ESO completely
2. Turn off ESO Plus and not invest any more money on this game.

The toggle is stupid and will fail in PvP when ball groups lag out the server, something ZOS has steadfastly refused to do anything about over at least 8 years. But if they must make it a toggle, fine.

The cost is too high especially for Magblades who can't build into Mag regen and still have decent enough damage to actually kill sweaty try hards with 35K - 40K+ Health. Bring it down to the same cost/second as it is now. Ramp it over time if you want, but experienced Nightblades don't spam it, they know how to hit it once while they hit crouch in order to get away.

When you see a Nightblade spamming cloak rapidly and repeatedly you know they are an inexperienced PvP Nightblade.

Zero Magicka regen really makes the skill completely unusable. We see on these forums Sorc builds with 37K health and 37K Mag that can stun and streak and kill us. Same with Wardens and DKs. You can't make a Nightblade stealth build that has those stats. It's impossible. You can't kill anything with that type of Nightblade PvP build. You can make it really hard for people to kill you but with such a build all you can do as a Nightblade is surf the zerg or run in a ball group.

This change to giving zero Magicka regen during cloak makes Brawlers (who are not real Nightblades) the ONLY viable PvP build for the class if they want to survive. And I don't want to hear about using the other morph of Leeching and other nonsense. Some of us have been on PTS trying it all and IT DOESN'T WORK.

The lack of Magicka Regen completely KILLS the class in PVP for over 90% of the people running a Nightblade in Cyrodiil today.

I would be HAPPY to get into a Discord with a Dev on the Combat Team and share my screen and show them on Live how we manage resource pools using the skill and how we can't on PTS.

Zero Magicka Regen while in Cloak is what will make a lot of Nightblades quit the game.

Tommy_The_Gun

Tbh. I am mostly concerned about the "toggle" part. We all know how "amazingly well" Toggle skills work in lag (so basically 24/7 in Cyro). With cast-able cloak, you can at least minimize the risk of invisibility bugging out. With toggle ? Not so much.
Players can somehow adapt to the cost, but how can one adapt to a skill that will basically be an RNG if it works or not ? ? ?

Other thing I am kinda worried (but to a lesser extend) is Shadow Barrier passive. It is Crucial for pretty much every NB build. Last patch, Veiled Strike was moved to assasination, so NB can no longer use spammable to proc it. And with Cloak becoming a toggle, it won't be a cast every 3 seconds, but rather only 1 cast. So, it also can not be used for that. Only option is to somehow make room on the skill bar & use Blur, or maybe if you are a bit more tanky (more heavy armour = longer duration for Shadow Barrier) , then you can maybe use Fear ? Idk.