Arachnophobia mode

Pelanora · August 24

Any chance of this?

https://www.eurogamer.net/20-years-later-world-of-warcraft-is-getting-an-arachnophobia-mode

'Arachnophobia modes are not uncommon and have become increasingly popular in recent years.

"I think it's really amazing," .... "But yeah, I don't know that we realised how bad it was going to be for people that spiders are scary."'

It's in a few games now....

I also think spiders as non combat pets is a bit mean. Easy to avoid the worst dungeons if you need to, not fair to add them into towns.

Elsonso · August 24

A portion of Elder Scrolls lore is sort of based on spiders, so I don't know how it would work.

We have a Daedric Prince who fancies herself as a spider-lover, and we see her influence all over the place. Dungeons have been built around spiders, and even named after them. In several places we are rescuing people from webs.

Syldras · August 24

Elsonso wrote: »

A portion of Elder Scrolls lore is sort of based on spiders, so I don't know how it would work.
We have a Daedric Prince who fancies herself as a spider-lover, and we see her influence all over the place. Dungeons have been built around spiders, and even named after them. In several places we are rescuing people from webs.

How about dogs? Trapping their prey in dog webs and attaching their dog eggs to cave walls until their puppies hatch from them? Who wouldn't love that?

On a more serious note, I indeed think it would be complicated considering ESO's lore.

I'm not against the suggestion, btw, if it helps people, I'm fine with it, even if I don't need it myself.

Erickson9610 · August 24

Pelanora wrote: »

I also think spiders as non combat pets is a bit mean. Easy to avoid the worst dungeons if you need to, not fair to add them into towns.

How is that being a bit "mean"? Some players like spiders and want to have one as a pet in-game. Those players aren't being intentionally mean to others by using those pets, and ZOS isn't trying to be mean by giving players the option to have one as a pet.

I'm not against having a client-side toggle which only affects the user's viewing experience, but to call others mean for allowing spiders to be seen anywhere in the game is unfair.

Nharimlur_Finor · August 24

Some players have a fear of their character being killed by another player.
I don't see anyone wanting to change that.

Erickson9610 · August 24

LaintalAy wrote: »

Some players have a fear of their character being killed by another player.
I don't see anyone wanting to change that.

I've seen many "PvE Cyrodiil" threads, when the Cyrodiil we already have has PvE in it.

Elsonso · August 24

LaintalAy wrote: »

Some players have a fear of their character being killed by another player.
I don't see anyone wanting to change that.

We already have a setting for that. It is called "PVE".

I don't particularly like spiders, and hate the sound they make in ESO, but being afraid of things isn't a bad thing in my book, so I deal with it. I am not an advocate of "arachnophobia mode" here.

I actually hate Clannfear more, just because of the 'assault' that they do when they jump. I never even noticed it until someone mentioned what that looks like in the forum, and now I can't unsee it.

Pelanora · August 24

If you don't care, you don't activate it. If the lore is your thing, you don't turn it on.

If you turn it on, nothing else changes than a visual.

Have you never seen it in other games?

Hopefully that's it for the usual starter comments from the lurkers. Although I'm missing a couple.... they'll presumably turn up.

TaSheen · August 25

Pelanora wrote: »

If you don't care, you don't activate it. If the lore is your thing, you don't turn it on.

If you turn it on, nothing else changes than a visual.

Have you never seen it in other games?

Hopefully that's it for the usual starter comments from the lurkers. Although I'm missing a couple.... they'll presumably turn up.

I've never seen it in other games. Then again, the last time I played "another game" was.... in 2013 when I quit RIFT...

Syldras · August 25

Elsonso wrote: »

I don't particularly like spiders, and hate the sound they make in ESO, but being afraid of things isn't a bad thing in my book, so I deal with it. I am not an advocate of "arachnophobia mode" here.
I actually hate Clannfear more, just because of the 'assault' that they do when they jump. I never even noticed it until someone mentioned what that looks like in the forum, and now I can't unsee it.

I find hungers ugly. And I think I've seen a really weird attack from a chaurus once. But I think just finding something in the game creepy and having a real phobia is a very big difference.

From my personal point of view, irrational fears are something to overcome (and I've perceived reading about a matter, or viewing pictures, is a good first step for that; I've never been arachnophobic, mind you, but I had a tendency to panic at the sight of blood after a severe accident). But that's my approach, and it's none of my business what other people do.

I think an arachnophobia mode is fine, since it's optional, so it doesn't bother me if I do not use that option.

Wuduwasa13 · August 25

Coming up next: ‘using spider pets is a form of violence against me’

Ridiculous.

spartaxoxo · August 25

Yeah. Sure. Why not? Doesn't hurt anyone.

TheMajority · August 25

sure, if its optional Im not seeing a reason to care
it dont affect me

but I think it weird that they picked crabs to turn the spider into since crabs can also trigger some who have that kind of fear because of the appearance. but maybe its safer and more ok for most.

but ok, turn the spiders into giant crab and spider daedras into crab daedra if its a toggle its ok

Monte_Cristo · August 25

If you did it with spiders, you'd have to do it with a bunch of other animals, too. Snakes, bats, other bug/bug like creatures. Some people are afraid of dogs, so all those wolves lurking around attacking you wouldn't help them.

JemadarofCaerSalis · August 25

Syldras wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I don't particularly like spiders, and hate the sound they make in ESO, but being afraid of things isn't a bad thing in my book, so I deal with it. I am not an advocate of "arachnophobia mode" here.
I actually hate Clannfear more, just because of the 'assault' that they do when they jump. I never even noticed it until someone mentioned what that looks like in the forum, and now I can't unsee it.

I find hungers ugly. And I think I've seen a really weird attack from a chaurus once. But I think just finding something in the game creepy and having a real phobia is a very big difference.

From my personal point of view, irrational fears are something to overcome (and I've perceived reading about a matter, or viewing pictures, is a good first step for that; I've never been arachnophobic, mind you, but I had a tendency to panic at the sight of blood after a severe accident). But that's my approach, and it's none of my business what other people do.

I think an arachnophobia mode is fine, since it's optional, so it doesn't bother me if I do not use that option.

Since this is a topic that comes up on another forum (that often has some form of this suggestion), I will say that exposure therapy is something that is done (viewing pictures) but, it isn't something where people are just tossed into the midst of a nest of spider pictures. It is typically done in a controlled environment.

As someone who was arachnophobic (and still is to some extent), it has taken me 40+ years to get to where I can deal with taking spiders outside the house, and that is only because I have to. I have no one else to do it. I deal with it in games by not looking directly at them and just sort of shooting. In Skyrim I used the scorched earth approach. Fireballs, lots of fireballs, at the first sign of a web. (and there is a mod for skyrim to turn spiders into draugr and I think skeevers. Maybe bears)

I am all for settings to allow people to become more comfortable playing a game (a game that many use to relax), I just am not quite sure how it would exactly work for ESO.

If it is possible, I would LOVE it, and probably would use it myself, there is at least one dungeon I am likely to never want to enter unless I absolutely have to, and it would definitely make it much easier for me to run around without worrying.

I would even go further and say, if it is at all feasible, a mode where people can input creatures to switch to other creatures would be great. (say someone doesn't like the Clannfear, all creatures using the clannfear model would be turned into say a kagouti, but with clannfear stats. It would simply switch the model and attack actions out)

Elsonso · August 25

Monte_Cristo wrote: »

If you did it with spiders, you'd have to do it with a bunch of other animals, too. Snakes, bats, other bug/bug like creatures. Some people are afraid of dogs, so all those wolves lurking around attacking you wouldn't help them.

Yes. Where does the line get drawn?

ZOS could probably spend an entire quarterly DLC rolling out phobia options for players. There are a lot of phobias, and while spiders is a big one, there are quite a few zoophobias out there.

Phobias are totally worthy of being optioned, but it is going to take time away from other things.

Syldras · August 25

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Since this is a topic that comes up on another forum (that often has some form of this suggestion), I will say that exposure therapy is something that is done (viewing pictures) but, it isn't something where people are just tossed into the midst of a nest of spider pictures. It is typically done in a controlled environment.

I didn't intend to give any suggestion. As I wrote: Everyone has to decide for themselves what to do (or not to do) with their fears. I was only writing about my own personal experience, which is that, if I feel I am too squeamish about something, I confront myself with it until it becomes normal/boring for me. I might have been a bit extreme in that regard sometimes, because "if super extreme exposure xyz didn't kill me, everything less won't kill me either" works very well for my mind. I don't say that works for everyone. I have no experience with professional therapies, so I can't say anything about that. It was a statement about how I see and deal with fear, and people can decide themselves what to take from it (if at all).

JemadarofCaerSalis · August 25

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Since this is a topic that comes up on another forum (that often has some form of this suggestion), I will say that exposure therapy is something that is done (viewing pictures) but, it isn't something where people are just tossed into the midst of a nest of spider pictures. It is typically done in a controlled environment.

I didn't intend to give any suggestion. As I wrote: Everyone has to decide for themselves what to do (or not to do) with their fears. I was only writing about my own personal experience, which is that, if I feel I am too squeamish about something, I confront myself with it until it becomes normal/boring for me. I might have been a bit extreme in that regard sometimes, because "if super extreme exposure xyz didn't kill me, everything less won't kill me either" works very well for my mind. I don't say that works for everyone. I have no experience with professional therapies, so I can't say anything about that. It was a statement about how I see and deal with fear, and people can decide themselves what to take from it (if at all).

Yeah, I realized what you meant, I was more commenting on the 'people need exposure therapy' getting tossed around without regard to the idea that it is done in a controlled environment with a professional nearby in case things don't go the way things are intended to go. You weren't saying that, but I have seen too many others do use it, as a way to shut down talk about phobias and the ability to curate online experiences.

And yeah, that type of exposure can work for some. For me, personally, it doesn't work. In fact, it makes it worse, because I am not expecting to be confronted (in ESO and games in general, I am expecting to confront spiders, so I can brace myself, though I will say that there have been times I have jumped from suddenly being confronted by one) and thus my 'flight or fight' instinct kicks in (it typically defaults to flight. There are times I am amazed I haven't killed myself getting away from a spider in that initial panic when one decides to join me in a bath or bed).

TheMajority · August 25

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Yeah, I realized what you meant, I was more commenting on the 'people need exposure therapy' getting tossed around without regard to the idea that it is done in a controlled environment with a professional nearby in case things don't go the way things are intended to go. You weren't saying that, but I have seen too many others do use it, as a way to shut down talk about phobias and the ability to curate online experiences.

Yes I do agree with you.

I seen people say this a lot on these forums. The informed consent is a big one with exposure therapy. Trust with a therapist will be important to success. They will work with the client they have almost in a partnership towards the goal of treatment. No surprise or jump scare should be in therapy with a therapist who is ethically minded.

I did see it first hand with my brother, who has OCD. It was a difficult process which can not be done by the self when one has a phobia or a problem like OCD. you are guided to do exposures yourself as homework, but it is with approved program.

thorwyn · August 25

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Yeah. Sure. Why not? Doesn't hurt anyone.

Why not?
This is why not:
https://www.verywellmind.com/list-of-phobias-2795453

I dare to say that some of those phobias are even more "popular" than arachnophobia.

Players are aware of their phobias and they are in full control over avoiding them ingame if they wish to. But asking the devs to customize their game to your preferences and tiptoe around your triggers seems more convenient these days.
And btw it is not just replacing the models of the mobs, it would also include sound effects, cut scenes, environment graphics (cobwebs etc), props, critters, non-combat pets.

Nharimlur_Finor · August 25

Elsonso wrote: »

I actually hate Clannfear more, just because of the 'assault' that they do when they jump. I never even noticed it until someone mentioned what that looks like in the forum, and now I can't unsee it.

They didn't always. That was one of the original QoLs.

James-Wayne · August 25

I would love to see an entire zone of Mephala like we recently saw in a dungeon, that would complete my journey in ESO!!

Ph1p · August 25

Two arguments against arachnophobia modes popping up here don't make sense to me:

"People can avoid triggering their phobia."
First, this would only be true if there was a warning before entering certain dungeons or starting specific quest lines that involve spiders, which is not the case. Second, this is about improving accessibility to the game. Telling someone to not play parts of it isn't really a solution.

"If we do spiders, we'll have to do all the others."
This is called the perfect solution fallacy - if we can't solve everything, let's not even start. It's like saying we shouldn't have seat-belts because people can still die from car crashes. Even the source someone linked explicitly stated that arachnophobia is one of the most common ones, so why not look into that one? Besides, other common phobias include fear of enclosed spaces, flying, or clowns. Not exactly something ESO needs to address in the first place.

In the end, it's rather a prioritization question. Are there enough affected people or is the situation severe enough for a few people that it's worth putting resources into this over other features?

Drammanoth · August 25

thorwyn wrote: »

if they eliminate triggers for one group, it feels a bit unfair to ignore the rest.

Which is why ZOS should not do it - at all. May I offer a different approach? How about... free exposure therapy.
Ponder this: how many people would rather love their hindrances and limitations, instead of trying to overcome them?

Within the confines of your home, when you encounter the stimulus in game, you can hurt it, you can kill it. It cannot hurt you physically IRL.

Also, why should one do it alone? If you belong to a guild, OR you have friends in Tamriel, go with them. It will take time - undoubtedly - but over time, and with the use of your will, you CAN overcome it.

Food for thought @Pelanora - I wish you good luck in overcoming this annoyance. SQUASH THEM!

vsrs_au · August 25

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Any chance of this?

https://www.eurogamer.net/20-years-later-world-of-warcraft-is-getting-an-arachnophobia-mode

'Arachnophobia modes are not uncommon and have become increasingly popular in recent years.

"I think it's really amazing," .... "But yeah, I don't know that we realised how bad it was going to be for people that spiders are scary."'

It's in a few games now....

I also think spiders as non combat pets is a bit mean. Easy to avoid the worst dungeons if you need to, not fair to add them into towns.

[snip]

Same here. Spiders (except for the really small ones) give me the screaming heebie jeebies, but the Elder Scrolls (offline or online) ones don't, because my brain is smart enough to realise they're fake.

[edited to remove quote]

colossalvoids · August 25

As an arachnophobe I wonder if ESO's spiders actually ever triggered anyone's phobia for real or that's just a wish for some mythical "others who need it"? Same with WoW spiders, how on earth even. I mean causing issues with breathing, uncontrolled movement and not just "Ew, a thingy".

AnduinTryggva · August 25

Elsonso wrote: »

A portion of Elder Scrolls lore is sort of based on spiders, so I don't know how it would work.

We have a Daedric Prince who fancies herself as a spider-lover, and we see her influence all over the place. Dungeons have been built around spiders, and even named after them. In several places we are rescuing people from webs.

I think it is still doable.

Just give these creatures another shape and done.

We finally play a fantasy game and there is no need to model everything around real world things. So spiders could simply have a different shape in the ESO world than in ours.

Anyhow, it will be feature that needs to be activated in the settings so no one is forced to use it.

I won't use it as I don't mind spiders even if I don't appreciate them much. But for others this can be quite stressful so I would say: go for it.

GuuMoonRyoung · August 25

All of you are making wrong arguments, a mode that hides spiders and spider infested environment will only harm people with arachnophobia. When you take therapy for Arachnophobia, the first thing the therapists do is try to condition the patients into not acknowledging the existence of spiders in still images like pictures. They gradually move forward and eventually condition the patients into not acknowledging the spiders in artificial form like movies and animations. It is a lengthy and tough process that requires patients to want to confront their problem and not hide from it. An Arachnophobia mode will only condition patients into deepening their phobia. It is not a healthy process.

SkaiFaith · August 25

colossalvoids wrote: »

As an arachnophobe I wonder if ESO's spiders actually ever triggered anyone's phobia for real or that's just a wish for some mythical "others who need it"? Same with WoW spiders, how on earth even. I mean causing issues with breathing, uncontrolled movement and not just "Ew, a thingy".

Yeah, I'm arachnophobe as well but I don't find TES spiders that bad, honestly. On the other hand, for example, I am scared to death by spiders in Grounded even when the Arachnophobia Mode is active in that game.

Everyone is different, but I don't think spiders are much scary in Elder Scrolls, just a bit disgusting to me.

Edit: if you think something is scary, wait until you face it in VR - that's terrifying!

AlienSlof · August 25

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

I also think spiders as non combat pets is a bit mean. Easy to avoid the worst dungeons if you need to, not fair to add them into towns.

How is that being a bit "mean"? Some players like spiders and want to have one as a pet in-game. Those players aren't being intentionally mean to others by using those pets, and ZOS isn't trying to be mean by giving players the option to have one as a pet.

I'm not against having a client-side toggle which only affects the user's viewing experience, but to call others mean for allowing spiders to be seen anywhere in the game is unfair.

This.

I love spiders and often use the non-combat pets to leg it around with me. Just because someone is scared of spiders shouldn't mean having mine removed.

However, a client-side toggle off would definitely be acceptable - especially if I could also toggle off all wasps in the game. I HATE wasps with a passion, horrible little flying hyperdermics! I even got a shiny pet wasp during the course of questing in West Weald that will never see the light of day in my game. I absolutely cannot stand the things.

ZOS_Icy · August 25

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.