Azureblight nerf needed

acastanza_ESO

Xanttious wrote: »

Here is yet a another reason why it should be nerfed.

Just did some testing myself, with a few others. Blight is completely ignoring resists. Tested the set. Test one: with close to max resists, and the person wearing the set only had 3k pen. The blight hit was for 4.3k. Second test was with absolutely no armor and no resists, blight hit for 4.8 which is well within the range. To me these numbers don't make any sense, and shows that Blight is completely ignoring resists.

If someone else would like to test this who is better at numbers for these type of tests, I welcome it. I'm curious of your results. But this is yet another reason the set needs to be nerfed, if this holds true.

Even if this is true, which I seriously doubt that only means that the incorrect behavior of the set should be fixed, and says absolutely nothing at all about if the set needs to be nerfed or not (it very much does not). And again IF that was true then I would again argue that the set needs to be fixed, and then buffed to properly scale up to 12 enemies hit because right now with its current behavior it is filling its intended niche exactly as it should be doing.

BiohazardRevenant

Marcelovski wrote: »

Running an azure blight setup as a group is just as much a "comp" and requires "commitment" to put together too. It is only effective when you have at the very least 4 people running it with their whole build centered around it. Furthermore, it is only viable in specific situations. Countering ballgroups is one of the few reasons to run an azure blight group. It only works when people are stacked, and is quite weak otherwise.

Ya its really hard to put together a 20 - 30-man faction of AZ users, that takes alot of Brain Power
lol.

Skraggy

So what's the verdict after running this with your guild?

You had 2+ FGs and still got relentlessly wiped by pugs. Is it still OP? Was it easy?

TechMaybeHic

I saw it register a couple times in my death recap from AD and EP masses that probably sparked this topic. It hit hard but ultimately was also mixed with cold fire and balistas and everything else while we were tightened up trying to fight on flags as long as we could with heavy response. It was a vulnerable position that should be vulnerable so I don't see the problem.

SkaraMinoc

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Need full ball group with lots of shields and sets like Grave Guardian to survive that.

SkaraMinoc

Azureblight + Oakfather + Balorgh + Thrive in Chaos seems to be the highest AOE damage.

Turtle_Bot

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Need full ball group with lots of shields and sets like Grave Guardian to survive that.

Or just not be stacked up within 2m of crown.

The GIF looks like the set is working as intended and doing so under very favorable conditions, with the group that's being wiped:
- on the retreat
- ults down
- rebuffing
- recasting HoTs
- partially in a choke point
All while being pushing by another equally coordinated group (designed and built specifically to counter their playstyle) that is fully buffed and on the attack and with zerg (and probably siege still ticking) follow up.

Take any single thing outlined above and the group survives that encounter, or at the very least lasts long enough to attempt their own turn and burn which would likely wipe the AB group due to the squishy zergs right behind them providing perfect fodder.

Also, if you keep track the following 2 members of the group that got wiped:
1. the player on the far left, they were far enough apart from the main ball to avoid most of that incoming damage while still having enough healing to cover the other incoming damage.
2. the top most player of that group at the end, they too were surviving the set and were even able to start their own pull (that just had no follow up) while barely taking damage because of the pre-stacked healing they already had on them and there were no nearby allies to keep proccing azureblight on them.


I could show the same thing of a bomber wearing DC + VD/PB, bombing a large group of unbuffed players repairing a keep door, or a proc stacking ranged ganker, 1 shotting a sub-20k health PvE build, and make the exact same complaints about those builds/sets that are being made in this thread about AB. But its not a fair complaint to make, because it's trying to complain about a niche set/build being strong in something that it is supposed to be strong at.
No, what I do instead is I play with 30k health, stay away from the doors/breaches/rams/flags (or hold block while keeping buffed when on them) while keeping detection pots/abilities + a negate ready so I have something to counter those playstyles.
None of this (outside of slotting negate, to partially counter bombers, which takes away from my preferred back bar ultimate slot) takes away from my build while providing enough of a counter/buffer to fight these playstyles, just like not stacking within 2m of crown doesn't take anything away from a ball group to provide a counter/buffer to AB. Maybe BGs should look into cleanses again, plaguebreak doesn't do anything through their healing anyway, even pre-nerf, so its not like PB will be problematic if they run a specific purge to cleanse AB.

All in all, this set is a non-issue, it works as intended, filling its niche that it is supposed to be really good at filling. Maybe ball groups aren't as skilled as they think they are and need to take their own advice and learn to adapt and play around this set. Maybe consider spacing out a few extra meters to lessen the impact of the set, maybe look at having access to purges as back up options, or they could take their own "wonderful" advice and just leave when an AB group shows up.

xylena_lazarow

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Need full ball group with lots of shields and sets like Grave Guardian to survive that.

Or, as the ball groups often like to tell the rest of us: spread out, zerglings.

Turtle_Bot

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Need full ball group with lots of shields and sets like Grave Guardian to survive that.

Or, as the ball groups often like to tell the rest of us: spread out, zerglings.

or their other little nugget of advice to the rest of us: just leave

acastanza_ESO

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Need full ball group with lots of shields and sets like Grave Guardian to survive that.

And why exactly do you think the ballgroup deserved to survive being pushed by another coordinated group that both outnumbered them, and was specifically built to counter their playstyle?
I know being outplayed is an uncomfortable experience for these kinds of players but they can always just leave.

Tinkerhorn

I run a high damage, high crit melee magplar and I dread to come across a tanky pressure DK plastering me with effects completely nullifying the effectiveness of my purge which is really the basis of my entire defense. The fact that such a strong counter exists to my particular build is a sign of good balance, not bad balance and this is the main point. There's builds my templar will rinse, and in this case a build where I have to sweat a lot. Something being more effective in certain situations than others is not bad balance!

As a side note, and probably a hot take; I would say Templar and DK are the most well balanced classes.

evLRise

Xanttious wrote: »

This post is regarding the Azureblight set and why it should be nerfed for PvP
.
This set has been out for a while now since Zos has changed how the set works, and it’s getting worse every day. For the sake of not having this post taken down I won't mention any names or alliances in which this takes place. This set is, in my opinion, being exploited in a way ZOS didn't intend for it to work.

I have run a PvP guild now for over 4 years on the Gray host server. The majority of the groups I lead are just casual (“pick-up” / “Non-comp”) groups with guild members and a weekly scheduled; Ball Group (“comped”) for a couple hours. This post stems from running both types of groups. It is not only my groups but other groups across all factions experiencing this as well.

When this set was first revamped you would see it out in cryo in small-man groups or on solo players which isn't the issue, this set allowed solo or small-mans to be competitive in the zergs atmosphere that is the majority of Cyrodill play; and helps those individuals be able to contribute to the task at hand (taking keeps/defending).

However, as time has gone by this set has been introduced into the 12 man group where anywhere from 4-7 people are running it in the same group. This damage cannot be mitigated or avoided since all they have to do is stack their AOE(most the time from a distance). There is no amount of shielding or healing that combats this set and as a group going against it there is nothing you can do about it other than step away from your group in hopes u don't proc it onto others. In my opinion, these conditions are leading to the exploitation of this set.

This set cannot be purged, and when you have 4-7 people casting it on a group of players, either casual or ball, that group just stands no chance. It’s taking away all enjoyable grouped play. Even in my casual groups I like when members stay around crown and with this set out there this isn't possible. It defeats the purpose of grouping up going against groups running 4-7 of these sets.

Not to mention a lot of the time the groups that are doing this run with the rest of the faction (zerg) so it’s not like you can pick or target these players down first. Some will argue that it’s the counter for the "ball groups" and that is why it won't be nerfed but this is not the case as it is influencing anyone in a group.

Alot of people hate on "ball" groups yet they don't understand the time and commitment members of these group take to put these comps together. It’s ALOT more than just stacking heals. Its ALOT of trial and error. Ball groups are only as strong as their weakest member, It takes one person in group not knowing what they are doing to screw over the whole group over. Nevertheless "Ball" groups are easy to counter when you have the experience to do so, especially without this set.

I want to reiterate that this is affecting both casual and ball groups in Cyrodiil as a whole.

We as ESO players have seen nerfs to Vicious Death, Plaguebreak, Dark Convergence, Rush of Agony, and Tarnished because they are all where over preforming, performing in a way the ruined gameplay, just as this set currently is doing. It’s to the point where a player’s skill doesn't matter anymore going against this set; and to the point where it’s pointless to even start groups up when you know these groups running 4-7 of this set are out there. You’re better off running solo. In a game that is meant for group play these are sad times.

Azure damage is very healable by a strong group. It is annoying for sure, and if you get sieged / very hard pressured by zergs / pushed by other groups at the same time it gets increasingly difficult, but a strong ballgroup can pull through most of the time.

There again, by strong group i mean good burst heal awarness, proper 90-95%+ heal uptimes, and a setup that's not just damage and mostly defensives and sustain ( funnily enough i noticed most groups, particularily on NA don't really understand that damage comes from coordination and not from damage glyphs, mundus stones etc. ).

Spamming vigors and RRs can only do so much.

Is it a strong set? Yes.
Is it overpowered? Possibly. But nothing good coordination can't handle.

Joy_Division

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Need full ball group with lots of shields and sets like Grave Guardian to survive that.

No, just a full group of players.

Anyone who runs in an organized group knows it falls apart when 2-3 are dead. In this GIf, i see what, 7-8 people scrambling away from a much larger number of players who no longer fear the red group and are relentlessly pushing. That's a classic wipe that happens every day, with or without Azureblight, and has happened this same way for years now.

I've been running in organized groups for years. The Azure set is fine and I'd prefer more of this type than the tarnished/anthelmir variety as at least Azure is niche set and requires requires numbers/coordination. ZOS had intended to introduce precisely this sort of PvP counter to stacking way back in 2015 with proximity detonation. Non-group players have to be extremely mindful of being near their allies because of the prevalence of bomb-builds, so it's not asking too much for organized groups to also be mindful of the potential dangers of being stacked so tightly.

MEBengalsFan2001

evLRise wrote: »

Xanttious wrote: »

This post is regarding the Azureblight set and why it should be nerfed for PvP
.
This set has been out for a while now since Zos has changed how the set works, and it’s getting worse every day. For the sake of not having this post taken down I won't mention any names or alliances in which this takes place. This set is, in my opinion, being exploited in a way ZOS didn't intend for it to work.

I have run a PvP guild now for over 4 years on the Gray host server. The majority of the groups I lead are just casual (“pick-up” / “Non-comp”) groups with guild members and a weekly scheduled; Ball Group (“comped”) for a couple hours. This post stems from running both types of groups. It is not only my groups but other groups across all factions experiencing this as well.

When this set was first revamped you would see it out in cryo in small-man groups or on solo players which isn't the issue, this set allowed solo or small-mans to be competitive in the zergs atmosphere that is the majority of Cyrodill play; and helps those individuals be able to contribute to the task at hand (taking keeps/defending).

However, as time has gone by this set has been introduced into the 12 man group where anywhere from 4-7 people are running it in the same group. This damage cannot be mitigated or avoided since all they have to do is stack their AOE(most the time from a distance). There is no amount of shielding or healing that combats this set and as a group going against it there is nothing you can do about it other than step away from your group in hopes u don't proc it onto others. In my opinion, these conditions are leading to the exploitation of this set.

This set cannot be purged, and when you have 4-7 people casting it on a group of players, either casual or ball, that group just stands no chance. It’s taking away all enjoyable grouped play. Even in my casual groups I like when members stay around crown and with this set out there this isn't possible. It defeats the purpose of grouping up going against groups running 4-7 of these sets.

Not to mention a lot of the time the groups that are doing this run with the rest of the faction (zerg) so it’s not like you can pick or target these players down first. Some will argue that it’s the counter for the "ball groups" and that is why it won't be nerfed but this is not the case as it is influencing anyone in a group.

Alot of people hate on "ball" groups yet they don't understand the time and commitment members of these group take to put these comps together. It’s ALOT more than just stacking heals. Its ALOT of trial and error. Ball groups are only as strong as their weakest member, It takes one person in group not knowing what they are doing to screw over the whole group over. Nevertheless "Ball" groups are easy to counter when you have the experience to do so, especially without this set.

I want to reiterate that this is affecting both casual and ball groups in Cyrodiil as a whole.

We as ESO players have seen nerfs to Vicious Death, Plaguebreak, Dark Convergence, Rush of Agony, and Tarnished because they are all where over preforming, performing in a way the ruined gameplay, just as this set currently is doing. It’s to the point where a player’s skill doesn't matter anymore going against this set; and to the point where it’s pointless to even start groups up when you know these groups running 4-7 of this set are out there. You’re better off running solo. In a game that is meant for group play these are sad times.

Azure damage is very healable by a strong group. It is annoying for sure, and if you get sieged / very hard pressured by zergs / pushed by other groups at the same time it gets increasingly difficult, but a strong ballgroup can pull through most of the time.

There again, by strong group i mean good burst heal awarness, proper 90-95%+ heal uptimes, and a setup that's not just damage and mostly defensives and sustain ( funnily enough i noticed most groups, particularily on NA don't really understand that damage comes from coordination and not from damage glyphs, mundus stones etc. ).

Spamming vigors and RRs can only do so much.

Is it a strong set? Yes.
Is it overpowered? Possibly. But nothing good coordination can't handle.

Hot stacking in any group is a problem and needs to be removed 100%. This would slightly make pve trials a bit harder and definitely make it easier to take down a ball group. No HoT from the same skill and its morphs should not stack. Instead of having 6-12 hot just from vigor and regen ball groups would get 1 stack making it easier to kill ball groups along with killing Zerg groups with siege.

MEBengalsFan2001

Tinkerhorn wrote: »

I run a high damage, high crit melee magplar and I dread to come across a tanky pressure DK plastering me with effects completely nullifying the effectiveness of my purge which is really the basis of my entire defense. The fact that such a strong counter exists to my particular build is a sign of good balance, not bad balance and this is the main point. There's builds my templar will rinse, and in this case a build where I have to sweat a lot. Something being more effective in certain situations than others is not bad balance!

As a side note, and probably a hot take; I would say Templar and DK are the most well balanced classes.

Play a warden and you can spam your Netch while removing negative effects and get a small heal from it. And if you don’t have a negative effect on you, you get a bonus in damage.

Templar issue is that the cleanse skill cost 4K mag per a use and recasting it burns through resources. Imo it’s a very bad design. Overall Templar dps builds are significantly inferior to all other classes. Did some testing on my warden and DK and using the same gear with race and cp allocation.

The warden as range or melee build performed better. In fact my warden was too tanky and had great mobility that I could change some pieces of heavy to medium or light making the warden do more damage and provide more mobility.

My DK was just as bad as my Templar for mobility and imo Templar and DK usually are equal when the Templar has enough resources to cleanse but this game makes it easier with lower resource cost to put pressure on a target with dots. DK though imo has more options and can easily reduce their damage without much loss for swift which would make them much better than Templar.

Templar needs some love as the class identity currently is to be a punching bag for others in pvp or an annoying fly that is hard to get down but can dodge roll around the battle field but not be a killer. And the few Templar I run into that are killers, my game freeze long enough for them to burn me down. Very annoying. Reality is that some players seem to be able to do that every time I fight them and the few times it doesn’t happen, wait about 10 ten minutes and when I engage them again my system freezes. Annoying as crap. I can be in a 30 vs 30 and have no issues but some 1v1 and with specific ball groups my game just freeze and I hurl over like nothing. Definitely something fishy going on.

WarGnome

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Play a warden and you can spam your Netch while removing negative effects and get a small heal from it. And if you don’t have a negative effect on you, you get a bonus in damage.

Templar issue is that the cleanse skill cost 4K mag per a use and recasting it burns through resources. Imo it’s a very bad design. Overall Templar dps builds are significantly inferior to all other classes. Did some testing on my warden and DK and using the same gear with race and cp allocation.
.

Gotta remember that netch and the Templar cleanse will proc plague break if you’re not careful. Not a huge deal and I’m definitely not disagreeing, but I don’t really see a lot of people using those in PVP anymore because of that.

Durham

Solution don’t run in a ball !!!!!

xylena_lazarow

An overlooked aspect of ball grouping is picking the correct target. There is one single AD player at point A, there is an AD zerg attack at point B, and obviously the hammer fight at point C. Where would you bring your ball?

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

An overlooked aspect of ball grouping is picking the correct target. There is one single AD player at point A, there is an AD zerg attack at point B, and obviously the hammer fight at point C. Where would you bring your ball?

It should be:
AD: c - hammer fight
DC: b - BRK
EP: b - BRK(as EP faction will be at the hammer)

xylena_lazarow

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

It should be:
AD: c - hammer fight
DC: b - BRK
EP: b - BRK(as EP faction will be at the hammer)

One of the DC ball groups got a little thirsty at point B, and ended up in the river with me at point A to blood port, giving me an entire ball group's worth of AP for "killing" them. The hammer was white because the DC zerg dropped it, presumably missing the support of said ball group. It's wise to look inward to tactics, before looking outward to Azureblight.

kookie

evLRise wrote: »

Xanttious wrote: »

There again, by strong group i mean good burst heal awarness, proper 90-95%+ heal uptimes, and a setup that's not just damage and mostly defensives and sustain ( funnily enough i noticed most groups, particularily on NA don't really understand that damage comes from coordination and not from damage glyphs, mundus stones etc. ).

Spamming vigors and RRs can only do so much.

Is it a strong set? Yes.
Is it overpowered? Possibly. But nothing good coordination can't handle.

It is near impossible to keep 90+% hot uptimes and burst heal through blight damage in those situations, in our logs people either have high hot uptimes and low burst or vice versa. I guess that's zos's solution to the supposed HoT issues. Also, Blight has been even more of a problem since this was posted, thanks Xan Hope it meets the nerf hammer soon, wonder how many people abusing this set complained about crutching on other proc sets.

mojomood

So if it takes 4+ players wearing Azure to make it OP, then this is not a ball group counter, it’s a ball group weapon. Four DDs wearing this wouldn’t stay alive without healers, so this is a set that makes ball groups stronger versus other ball groups. If it is so strong that no other GvG strategy can beat it, then I doubt it will be nerfed until everyone is running it. All of the sets that can do high enough aoe damage to kill a ball group are the exact sets ball groups farm to kill ball groups.

xylena_lazarow

kookie wrote: »

Blight has been even more of a problem since this was posted

Pretty sure the ball group that chased me from BRK all the way to the river was running an Azure comp, with all the Acid Sprays that I was seeing. The fact that 1 player can run that far evading 12 organized, shows how truly ineffective Azure is when used outside its niche of blowing up stacked groups. Fair tradeoff. Balanced set.

WaywardArgonian

I've been killed by this in a group a few times and honestly I don't mind it. If it provides a counter to organized group play, then fine. From what I can see Azureblight itself requires quite a bit of coordination in its own right for it to be effective, and it limits the purpose/effectiveness of the group wearing that stuff.

Theignson

A year or so ago I tried this set solo. I think on a sorc. It was not too effective. Occasionally you could get a big hit on a group, but just as often they would slaughter you. So, you need to cast the dots from range, but then it was hard to build enough stacks for the explosion.
Basically I found the only groups I could blow up were not too good and could have been taken out by other means. Also, it was mainly anti-zerg/ball, if you got in a solo or small scale fight you were a punching bag.

I tried it again recently but this time on my arcanist. If you use three 1-tick-per-second dots plus beam, you can build a stack of 20 surprisingly fast. It never occurred to me to run multiple players with this, but its ingenious. The way they adjusted the set, the explosion from 2 players cant go off at once, but is staggered by 0.5 seconds. Thismenas if a lot of players in a blob (or ball) are at 20 stacks, the explosions go off in series, and each one hits players that are too close.

Fun to play around with, but ultimately as a solo there are much better setsfor all around play

Aznox

Theignson wrote: »

If you use three 1-tick-per-second dots plus beam, you can build a stack of 20 surprisingly fast.

We will never again live the glorious days of 2-ticks-per-second Mystic orb, 2-ticks-per-second Negate, and multiple 1-tick-per-second proc sets all stacking Azureblight

As a single Azureblight player you could get a whole enemy group from 0 to 20 in less than 5 sec.

Turtle_Bot

Aznox wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

If you use three 1-tick-per-second dots plus beam, you can build a stack of 20 surprisingly fast.

We will never again live the glorious days of 2-ticks-per-second Mystic orb, 2-ticks-per-second Negate, and multiple 1-tick-per-second proc sets all stacking Azureblight

As a single Azureblight player you could get a whole enemy group from 0 to 20 in less than 5 sec.

Way back in the day when AB was truly an OP set and warranted discussion and was not just a specific niche option to help against a specific playstyle.

o7

divnyi

Oh god that's some addon overload.

SkaraMinoc

Aznox wrote: »

As a single Azureblight player you could get a whole enemy group from 0 to 20 in less than 5 sec.

Azureblight Stam Sorc needed a nerf. Dropping 5 million damage in a casual BG with Rush of Agony was too much. Also the Warden Growing Swarm was busted and applied n^2 ticks of Azureblight to anyone within radius. 7+ million damage in BGs.

Aznox

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

As a single Azureblight player you could get a whole enemy group from 0 to 20 in less than 5 sec.

Azureblight Stam Sorc needed a nerf. Dropping 5 million damage in a casual BG with Rush of Agony was too much. Also the Warden Growing Swarm was busted and applied n^2 ticks of Azureblight to anyone within radius. 7+ million damage in BGs.

Oh I don't disagree, it was fun while it lasted, but it wasn't the only outlier at the time and we lost some interesting build mechanics with the tick-rate standardization.