Azureblight nerf needed

divnyi

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

The lag issue with azureblight is real.

The lag issue with ballgroups is real. Azureblight is the only real counter to ballgroups.
Fix ballgroups, only then adjust Azureblight, in that order. Anything else is game destroying.

You can't "fix" ball groups. All you people complain about the heal stacking and even if they removed that ball groups will still be a thing. The thing that makes "ball groups" so good is their attention to detail. The sets, the comps, the positioning, the DMG output falling within 1-2 seconds on a very specific dmg point, solos or pugs aren't going to be able to counter it.

Honestly, if they take heal stacking away you all would be worse off (think about all the heals from randos you have on you that you have no idea about).

It shows that you don't know how much passive HoTs pugs stack. No, it's not nearly the same amount as balls do.
HoT stacks, shield stacks, AoE movement speed buffs & snow threader is what is keeping you alive.
Take that away, and you can start to brag about attention to detail if you still succeed.

The only people who defend HOT stacking are people who play with the ballgroups that.... make significant use of it TBH.
The idea that anyone running outside a ballgroup is EVER running with 12 constant Echoing Vigor giving them a full health bar's worth of healing every tick (hyperbole but its still a ton) is laughably absurd.
This is like the one single change that would have the intended disproportionate effect on ballgroups. Sure, they could switch to different heals, but there isn't anything else like Vigor that you can slap on every player in your group regardless of role and get a massive HOT with minimal engagement.

Azureblight is very much the only real counter to this (imo abusive) play style right now. Calling for nerfs without doing anything about the actual problem that it's currently the only thing addressing really reads like people not happy that there is finally a counter to their borderline exploitation of game mechanics.

Scribing gets you a big burst heal and hot.

Ironically, HoT is best in AoE heals, single target HoT is weaker. Thus, balls are the best abusers of scribing HoT.

slokes

Tcholl wrote: »

It is not a counter to groups and it has being used by groups. I was playing solo yesterday and my blight counter was raising high because I was being attacked by a GROUP abusing it, which I do not want to name.

I will repeat, the idea that solo players will suddenly wipe groups due to blight or any other 1 key skill/set is a pipe dream. This is not happening out there.

On simple solution is to diminish the results if used inside the same group, which will not affect solo players using it. Rallying Cry has a similar mech, where more people wearing on the same group will lower the buff. As it is, makes it very easy to stack seeds using multiple players using the same set.

I don't understand people complaining that others are sharing their experience in the forum, where you are suposed to come and talk about those issues.

As per go to somewhere else, that is exactly what I had to do to avoid the said group and its caltrops poping blight on the entrance.

The azure blight already has a "diminished results" effect built in. It only grows in damage the more enemies are stacked together. A blight explosion amongst mindful players that keep a small distance does very little damage compared to when there's a group of 12 stacking on top of each other.

One might then argue that the seed stacks don't actually apply too quickly, but that targeted players amplify the damage because they choose to stand too close to one another.

Tcholl

If it had diminished results, we would not see 6 of 12 players using it on the same group. Guess what, this is exactly what is happening. Remember, we are talking PvP here and not pve. It doesnt grow in damage, but the seeds stacks the more people use it together. If you have 6 players spaming aoes on the floor, like caltrops for example, it will cause explosions in sequence.

As per the explosion power, yes sometimes it will not kill you but creates enough pressure to influence your playstyle and positioning. Sometimes, it is better to leave than trying to fight against it. You have to keep an eye on the blight counter and move away from your faction at all times.

The set contributes to the ranged meta, since makes a whole area unavailble for enemy players and it is impossible to force your way through melee taking normal damage and blight and siege.

Also, creates a lot of lag, since it explodes in a rate that is certainly not meant to.

When its close quarters it gets worse. The blight group will spam the aoes on the entrance of a keep for example and along with the siege you cannot have any fights there.

We will soon only have jumping sorcs with their shields, other solos using tarnished and groups using blight. Good luck picking a good fight in the middle of them.

acastanza_ESO

Tcholl wrote: »

If it had diminished results, we would not see 6 of 12 players using it on the same group. Guess what, this is exactly what is happening. Remember, we are talking PvP here and not pve. It doesnt grow in damage, but the seeds stacks the more people use it together. If you have 6 players spaming aoes on the floor, like caltrops for example, it will cause explosions in sequence.

As per the explosion power, yes sometimes it will not kill you but creates enough pressure to influence your playstyle and positioning. Sometimes, it is better to leave than trying to fight against it. You have to keep an eye on the blight counter and move away from your faction at all times.

The set contributes to the ranged meta, since makes a whole area unavailble for enemy players and it is impossible to force your way through melee taking normal damage and blight and siege.

Also, creates a lot of lag, since it explodes in a rate that is certainly not meant to.

When its close quarters it gets worse. The blight group will spam the aoes on the entrance of a keep for example and along with the siege you cannot have any fights there.

We will soon only have jumping sorcs with their shields, other solos using tarnished and groups using blight. Good luck picking a good fight in the middle of them.

It absolutely does have diminishing returns, it only scales up to 180% (6 enemies hit) AND it has an internal cooldown - one explosion every 0.5 seconds - AND an enemy can only have one instance of Blight seed.
Since it it is the only counterplay to ballgroups, I would actually argue that the damage should scale to 12 enemies hit instead of just 6, but the standard target cap is 6 so that's not going to happen.

Again, unless you're running in a ballgroup, Azureblight has literally no impact on you. It isn't effective area denial at all, a couple stacks as you pass through are meaningless, the stacks themselves do zero damage. Heck even reaching full stacks is meaningless, even in the close quarters of a flag defense, unless you're stacking literally on top of other players. Pay even a modicum of attention to your debuffs and there is literally no issue, unless you're in a coordinated group that forces tight stacking (ballgroups), the one single playstyle that it is a specific and targeted counter for.
Also, the idea that Azureblight causes more lag than the groups it counters is absolutely laughable.

RaidingTraiding

Anything to counter the insane amount of shields and healing groups have is a good thing. The amount of damage and coordination needed to kill a comped group is pretty hard to achieve. Even other groups struggle to kill each other otherwise. The balance of the set comes from having to build a group around it, doesn't even have to be another 12 man, but it does need some coordination to pull off. You're not going to dot up a ball group and pop them by yourself. And like others have said already, it really is only good for that. It's not really that much of a threat to pug zergs, there are better options for that.

slokes

Tcholl wrote: »

As per the explosion power, yes sometimes it will not kill you but creates enough pressure to influence your playstyle and positioning. Sometimes, it is better to leave than trying to fight against it. You have to keep an eye on the blight counter and move away from your faction at all times.

Great point.
This is exactly what a competitive PvP game is supposed to be like. If nothing should influence your playstyle and positioning then you might be better at solo tower defense games than a PvP MMO,

Ball group stack vs Spread out. Risk vs Reward.

Tcholl

The player can have multiple instances as long as the blight group have several players wearing blight. It will only have one, if only one wears it. Also, I am not guessing that groups are using 4 to 6 players using blight, which is half of the group, I saw a few of them yersterday. It is a fact. Why would they do that then? It is a rhetoric question anyway.

You can argue as much as you want and groups will keep abusing it and it will come your way sooner rather than later. Maybe, depending on the groups on your faction, you are not dealing with then just yet. They will pop up though. For the ones that love the ranged meta and are afraid of a good fight maybe it is good.

I played yesterday solo and the blight counter was rising quickly. So, stating that does not impact solos is not true at all. It impacts anyone that happens to be hit by the aoes by multiple players wearing azure. Try to stand in their caltrops and you will see for yourself. You will only see the stacks rising if you have the proper add on, so maybe this is why one might think is has no effect.

Some people keep calling it a ballgroup counter, yet I have never seen this hero solo player causing a group wipe with blight. The ballgroup counter in this case is another ballgroup wearing blight? Makes no sense to me. (another rethoric question)

I already made my points and will not keep going back and forth. I shared enough experience, which was my goal here.

ToRelax

Tcholl wrote: »

[...]
Some people keep calling it a ballgroup counter, yet I have never seen this hero solo player causing a group wipe with blight. The ballgroup counter in this case is another ballgroup wearing blight? Makes no sense to me. (another rethoric question)
[...]

It requires a coordinated group to use effectively, not a ball group. Of course, if you simply call every coordinated group a ball group while simultaneously assuming that ball groups stack so much Azureblight becomes a threat, you can pretend it is only used by ball groups against ball groups.

It is an absolute non issue for anyone far enough from other players to consistently see their own character. If I get hit with it, my only reaction is relief that they didn't use a more effective proc set instead.

acastanza_ESO

Tcholl wrote: »

The player can have multiple instances as long as the blight group have several players wearing blight. It will only have one, if only one wears it. Also, I am not guessing that groups are using 4 to 6 players using blight, which is half of the group, I saw a few of them yersterday. It is a fact. Why would they do that then? It is a rhetoric question anyway.

You can argue as much as you want and groups will keep abusing it and it will come your way sooner rather than later. Maybe, depending on the groups on your faction, you are not dealing with then just yet. They will pop up though. For the ones that love the ranged meta and are afraid of a good fight maybe it is good.

I played yesterday solo and the blight counter was rising quickly. So, stating that does not impact solos is not true at all. It impacts anyone that happens to be hit by the aoes by multiple players wearing azure. Try to stand in their caltrops and you will see for yourself. You will only see the stacks rising if you have the proper add on, so maybe this is why one might think is has no effect.

Some people keep calling it a ballgroup counter, yet I have never seen this hero solo player causing a group wipe with blight. The ballgroup counter in this case is another ballgroup wearing blight? Makes no sense to me. (another rethoric question)

I already made my points and will not keep going back and forth. I shared enough experience, which was my goal here.

You're simply mistaken. A player can, in fact, only have one instance of Blight Seed on them at a time, but everyone who is wearing Azureblight contributes to that instance building stacks towards the explosion that occurs at 20 stacks. That is why multiple people wear it, because otherwise it's impossible to have enough DOTs to get it to explode in any kind of viable way. What is important about this is that it doesn't require grouping, just enough random people wearing the set, which allows less coordinated people to still offer something in the way of counterplay against coordinated groups simply by wearing the set so that you contribute stacks. No one, at all, has made any claim about a "hero solo player" that's just simply not understanding what we're saying about how the set functions as a counter.

Also, if you're solo then it literally doesn't matter if you're getting blight stacks, they don't do any damage in and of themselves. See them getting close to 20, step away from the nearest players for a couple seconds. That's literally all it takes. See Blight stacks popping up? Spread out, after all, you're not in a ballgroup, you don't need to stack directly on other players, and it is in fact generally a bad idea to do so for other reasons anyway.

The set is working as intended, both mechanically, and as a counter for a specific playstyle (one that a large proportion of the player base generally considers to be pretty toxic to the health of the game).

Tcholl

It is a subjective line that separates what is an organized group and a ballgroup. However, as @ToRelax said, it requires a coordinated group.
My point is that it is not a solo counter to ballgroups, not even if you stack randoms using blight.

acastanza_ESO

Tcholl wrote: »

It is a subjective line that separates what is an organized group and a ballgroup. However, as @ToRelax said, it requires a coordinated group.
My point is that it is not a solo counter to ballgroups, not even if you stack randoms using blight.

I don't agree about that last bit. Ballgroups have power-crept to the point were Siege and Negates isn't enough to counter them anymore even with what should be overwhelming numbers. If you put randoms in blight it definitely starts to put enough pressure on a ballgroup's healing and shielding that they start to get brought back down from an immortal killing machine that can wipe an entire faction without breaking a sweat, to something actually fightable with numbers again. But it does take more than one person wearing it, that much is true.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee

Xanttious wrote: »

take ball groups out of the equation and even many of you said nerf it then. Guess what that means the set is broken if that's your argument. The rate of stacking is the issue.

Just casue everyone expects to hit the EZ button when it comes to killing ball groups. Try this for a change. Leave the keep, don't get farmed,no one is forcing you to be at that keep the ball groups are at.

Yes there are times where they will come backdoor you when your trying to take a keep, that's life, you don't always get what your want or you think you deserve. Chances are if that's keep is already being defended from you (cause if its not, its your own fault for not 20/20 siegin it, since 5 people on a keep can put down 20/20 siege) that ball group is going to get tied up there. Go somewhere else.

Guess what, all these sweaty ball groups that are out there, they don't play the map. They look for the fights. If you leave the keep they will get bored and leave themself.

If they happen to take the keep, retake it when they leave. It takes more then 2 min to move keep form keep in cryo while on horse and chances are they have players that are caught in combat so it takes them even longer sometimes. So at that point it goes back to what i said before that falls on you as a alliance, as a group,for not getting enough siege up. I can't speak for all the alliances, but DC on Grayhost SUCKS at siege, you will have 50 DC at a keep and not even 20/20 siege (with minimal or not counter siege on you) then they will complain about losing the keep to a ball group that showed up 5-10 min after the siege started on the keep.

If its glade for example, let them take it, you still have 2 other keeps protecting your scrolls. They will leave if no one shows up. If they don't let them rot there, casue sitting in a keep all day isn't a fun game play style, and defend warden and rays. or go around Glade and make them fall back to their keeps.

If your playing for score anyway none of it really matters due to night-capping. Which is a bigger problem then any one alliances ball groups.

At the end of the day the way the stacks ramp up is broken and should be address whether or not it helps kill ball groups or not. Since every alliance (on grayhost) has multiple ball groups that run at given time though out the day or week. No one side is at any more of a disadvantage from ball groups then another. Its a play style, its not a set that is determining the outcome of their fights, which is the case we have here.

I want to address a few points you mentioned in your post. First, I'd like to clarify that I am an active ball group player and have been for many years. Additionally, I have been playing for several months with my Azureblight 3-4 man squad, specifically targeting ball groups in Cyrodiil. Thus, I have a well-rounded perspective on both sides of the equation.

First of all, there is no "taking the ball groups out of the equation" when it comes to your post about Azureblight in Cyrodiil. Your perspective on Azureblight's effectiveness outside of countering optimized group play suggests a massive lack of experience when utilizing the set. If there are no ball groups around, my small group swaps off Azure builds to frontline and kill pugs because we know how ineffective the set is against anything other than ball groups.

On the other hand, while it's true that every faction has ball groups, no faction matches the number of ball groups DC has. I play frequently during the week, and every day there are at least two DC ball groups, often three to four, which is not seen as consistently in other factions. If I were to list the ball groups in this game, DC would have more Greyhost ball groups than AD and EP combined at this point.

Now that I have addressed those 2 points on your post I will say that from my experience, Azureblight excels at one main thing: killing ball groups inside keeps, resource towers, and outposts. If a group is inside trying to "farm pugs," no groups that we have encountered can withstand the pressure from Azureblight while being zerged down. The set's effectiveness increases exponentially when groups are confined within structures. Whether the groups are bad, below average, or mediocre, they last at most five minutes trying to farm pugs inside these structures until they eventually succumb to the pressure from the combination of Azureblight, siege, and/or a well-placed carpet negate. I can only speak about AD and DC ball groups since we play on red.

In contrast, the effectiveness of Azureblight changes significantly in open-field encounters. Here, we encounter three types of groups: bad groups that die quickly to Azureblight, mediocre damage comp groups that last more than five minutes but eventually die, and mediocre tanky groups that can kite and survive the pressure by spamming shields. The latter groups are effectively useless outside of kiting and surviving, so the alliance often gets bored and lets them go. They can still die to Azureblight, but it’s less common; they typically just end up running away.

Finally, you may be wondering how good ball groups do against this set and, unfortunately, there are none left on AD or DC to my knowledge. Ball grouping has always been a carry playstyle, especially with the nerfs to proxy and harmony. Ball groups can stack cross heals, and the only remaining counterplay is Azureblight, which exposes groups that farm unorganized pugs by spamming HoTs and outhealing everything. Instead of dodging the other optimized groups to kill pugs, why dont you actively try to fight them like say a GvG. You might learn how to actually ball group from this experience and have a better perspective on ball grouping as a whole that will help you survive Azureblight. However, it is obvious that you wont and will continue dodging the chance to fight other groups and complain in the forums instead of actually figuring out and doing whats needed to improve.

Tcholl

I respect your opinion @acastanza_ESO. Your explanation on how the set works was very good, tnx.

I actually agrees at some extent, regarding the blight part of it (really do not want to turn this into a ballgroup discussion). however I feel the burden of the pressure will fall harder on the solos without healers. By solos, I mean the players playing alongside the faction as you are rarely playing all by yourself in cyro.

I feel that what we actually have today are groups using azure effectively and not random solo players. The set that most solos are using is actually tarnished that brings burst, specially at range.

Turtle_Bot

Xanttious wrote: »

take ball groups out of the equation and even many of you said nerf it then. Guess what that means the set is broken if that's your argument. The rate of stacking is the issue.

Just casue everyone expects to hit the EZ button when it comes to killing ball groups. Try this for a change. Leave the keep, don't get farmed,no one is forcing you to be at that keep the ball groups are at.

Yes there are times where they will come backdoor you when your trying to take a keep, that's life, you don't always get what your want or you think you deserve. Chances are if that's keep is already being defended from you (cause if its not, its your own fault for not 20/20 siegin it, since 5 people on a keep can put down 20/20 siege) that ball group is going to get tied up there. Go somewhere else.

Guess what, all these sweaty ball groups that are out there, they don't play the map. They look for the fights. If you leave the keep they will get bored and leave themself.

If they happen to take the keep, retake it when they leave. It takes more then 2 min to move keep form keep in cryo while on horse and chances are they have players that are caught in combat so it takes them even longer sometimes. So at that point it goes back to what i said before that falls on you as a alliance, as a group,for not getting enough siege up. I can't speak for all the alliances, but DC on Grayhost SUCKS at siege, you will have 50 DC at a keep and not even 20/20 siege (with minimal or not counter siege on you) then they will complain about losing the keep to a ball group that showed up 5-10 min after the siege started on the keep.

If its glade for example, let them take it, you still have 2 other keeps protecting your scrolls. They will leave if no one shows up. If they don't let them rot there, casue sitting in a keep all day isn't a fun game play style, and defend warden and rays. or go around Glade and make them fall back to their keeps.

If your playing for score anyway none of it really matters due to night-capping. Which is a bigger problem then any one alliances ball groups.

At the end of the day the way the stacks ramp up is broken and should be address whether or not it helps kill ball groups or not. Since every alliance (on grayhost) has multiple ball groups that run at given time though out the day or week. No one side is at any more of a disadvantage from ball groups then another. Its a play style, its not a set that is determining the outcome of their fights, which is the case we have here.

This comment cannot be serious. Nice victim blaming here...

"if other players don't like it, they should just leave"
well guess what, that's what players are doing already and cyro has never been more dead because of it.

"if other players get farmed its their own fault for not putting enough sieges down"
really????? Comments like this are why PvPers have such a bad reputation, how about instead of defending an abusive playstyle with victim blaming and messages of others should just leave, the real problem gets acknowledged and properly addressed (that being ball groups are too overpowered and need direct nerfing via changes to game mechanics).

As for your glade example, that doesn't work, you want to know why? the ball group just takes glade and moves to rayles or warden and takes those too, then either the group takes the scroll or their factions zerg ports in and takes the scroll. There's no "moving around it" or "defending other keeps", that's just not the reality because ball groups will just force the zergs to interact with them by taking key objectives such as scrolls/scroll keeps if left alone.

Ball groups in their current state are a cancerous plague on PvP in this game, especially since they ARE the META and need targeted and direct addressing via heavy limits on the mechanics they are abusing. There is no defending this playstyle, it is toxic and needs to be heavily, directly, nerfed the same way other playstyles were in the past.

Seyer530

Nerf this set. Sheesh! No amount of burst healing or shielding can counter this as it currently is. Some of the ABSOLUTE WORST PLAYERS are just spamming one button. I've never died to the majority of these kids using this set, but now they are just grouping 8+ and abusing it. It is very sad, but what else can you expect from a faction that has to night cap to win campaigns. *shrug*

BahometZ

This discussion is absurd; as usual some people get their noses bent out of joint when the opposition doesn't lay over and die, and you have to use some actual strategy to combat them. There is a cost:benefit ratio in running this set, it has a niche purpose. Get out of that niche if you are so offended by losing. It's the same mentality that says players are using cheat builds in cyrodiil, when it's literally just people putting more thought into theory crafting than you. Instead of running to the forums to complain, discuss ways to counter it.

Major_Mangle

As many others have said in this thread, Azureblight is absolutely fine and is working as it should. In order for Azureblight to reach dangerous potential you need to play in a very specific group composition with the right buff-/debuff sets or else it´s barely uselful, even against ballgroups and larger zergs (you need at least 4 people using the set or the stack build up is simply not fast enough to have an impact). Good ballgroups, still deals with an optimised azureblight composition without any issues.

And I´ll say this as someone who play in such an azureblight group from time to time, that the composition is an extremely nische group that has 0 value out of it´s intended purpose and is very easily countered by a good small-scale or some random gankers. Even a random solo player with a well placed siege/coldfire/meatbag is devastating since these azureblight builds are very squishy.

I do find it incredibly ironic however, how some players (mainly ballgroup players) have been saying for years how people who don´t like ballgroups needs to attapt or make their own groups, and when people actually put together an "anti-ballgroup/anti-zerg" composition it´s all of a sudden a problem?

Major_Toughness

Tcholl wrote: »

The player can have multiple instances as long as the blight group have several players wearing blight. It will only have one, if only one wears it. Also, I am not guessing that groups are using 4 to 6 players using blight, which is half of the group, I saw a few of them yersterday. It is a fact. Why would they do that then? It is a rhetoric question anyway.

You can argue as much as you want and groups will keep abusing it and it will come your way sooner rather than later. Maybe, depending on the groups on your faction, you are not dealing with then just yet. They will pop up though. For the ones that love the ranged meta and are afraid of a good fight maybe it is good.

I played yesterday solo and the blight counter was rising quickly. So, stating that does not impact solos is not true at all. It impacts anyone that happens to be hit by the aoes by multiple players wearing azure. Try to stand in their caltrops and you will see for yourself. You will only see the stacks rising if you have the proper add on, so maybe this is why one might think is has no effect.

Some people keep calling it a ballgroup counter, yet I have never seen this hero solo player causing a group wipe with blight. The ballgroup counter in this case is another ballgroup wearing blight? Makes no sense to me. (another rethoric question)

I already made my points and will not keep going back and forth. I shared enough experience, which was my goal here.

Oh I see your problem. "Don't stand in stupid" as they say in PvE.

Tcholl

I mostly see 3 kinds of comments:

1 - ppl that complain that other posts in a forum, which is bizarre.
2 - ppl that hate ballgroups and have a need to show it.
3 - ppl that has huge ego because of a video game and think they can teach and lecture everyone.

Take this noise out and you get what is worth content in this thread.

xylena_lazarow

Seyer530 wrote: »

No amount of burst healing or shielding can counter this

Stop trying to face tank everything. You counter it with positioning and tactics. I've literally never died to Azure.

slokes

Tcholl wrote: »

I mostly see 3 kinds of comments:

1 - ppl that complain that other posts in a forum, which is bizarre.
2 - ppl that hate ballgroups and have a need to show it.
3 - ppl that has huge ego because of a video game and think they can teach and lecture everyone.

Take this noise out and you get what is worth content in this thread.

And a stark example of all three types in one singular post!

Seyer530

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Seyer530 wrote: »

No amount of burst healing or shielding can counter this

Stop trying to face tank everything. You counter it with positioning and tactics. I've literally never died to Azure.

I don't face tank when in ball group, in fact we barely stand still and have every single buff. We're fully optimized and then this EP group (it's always EP) shows up with 8+ people in Azureblight because they got farmed for an hour, and those stacks go from 2 to like 18 instantly. There's no way to purge the dots or spread out fast enough when you are in a coordinated group. Other than that, I never die from Azureblight and it's a meh set. It's just crazy that any set can be abused to ruin a night of gaming for 12 players, but again, look where it's coming from.

slokes

Seyer530 wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Seyer530 wrote: »

No amount of burst healing or shielding can counter this

Stop trying to face tank everything. You counter it with positioning and tactics. I've literally never died to Azure.

I don't face tank when in ball group, in fact we barely stand still and have every single buff. We're fully optimized and then this EP group (it's always EP) shows up with 8+ people in Azureblight because they got farmed for an hour, and those stacks go from 2 to like 18 instantly. There's no way to purge the dots or spread out fast enough when you are in a coordinated group. Other than that, I never die from Azureblight and it's a meh set. It's just crazy that any set can be abused to ruin a night of gaming for 12 players, but again, look where it's coming from.

The arrogance and ego here is astounding. Having a coordinated 12 person group with every single buff and thinking your group is fully optimized is not a ticket to win every fight. I think the point that people are missing is that your group is not in fact OPTIMIZED if you're dying to something that has almost no effect on any other group but yours.

If a group has run around thinking they are invulnerable and farming other players for hours it really only makes sense that another group would create a counter strategy. Now the original groups must either adapt and actually optimize their group or continue to stick to their tired old strategy.

xylena_lazarow

Seyer530 wrote: »

There's no way to purge the dots or spread out fast enough when you are in a coordinated group.

My groups are smaller but we are frequently spread then extremely quickly come together for survival or bombing (then back apart), that tactic itself wins a lot of fights. With dedication and practice there is most certainly a way.

Seyer530

Here's what bothers me.

This is my kill counter for one of those players abusing Azureblight just for 2024. I left their name out. 4 of these kills they got on me is from that set, yesterday. Compared to my 99 Kills on them! I play ungrouped most of the time, ball group a couple nights for a couple hours, if I have time (heals). You cannot tell me that this set is ridiculously overpowered. I mean, yeah sure I'm all for players to have a chance at getting gud at the game, but giving them a set where they can have 20 other players also use it to simultaneously hit you with a skill that does a DOT that causes a massive explosion before you can complete an eye blink...?? LOL

acastanza_ESO

Seyer530 wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Seyer530 wrote: »

No amount of burst healing or shielding can counter this

Stop trying to face tank everything. You counter it with positioning and tactics. I've literally never died to Azure.

I don't face tank when in ball group, in fact we barely stand still and have every single buff. We're fully optimized and then this EP group (it's always EP) shows up with 8+ people in Azureblight because they got farmed for an hour, and those stacks go from 2 to like 18 instantly. There's no way to purge the dots or spread out fast enough when you are in a coordinated group. Other than that, I never die from Azureblight and it's a meh set. It's just crazy that any set can be abused to ruin a night of gaming for 12 players, but again, look where it's coming from.

ruin a night of gaming for 12 players?!
ruin a night of gaming for 12 players?!?!

You got countered. That's all there is to it. That isn't "ruining" anything. That's playing the game. You don't deserve to win just because. You got beat fair and square by the exact gameplay that's designed to counter the playstyle you were engaging in. Adapt your playstyle.

Not to mention zero consideration for the nights of gaming your group "ruined" by "farming" them.....

Edit: lmao, Poe's law got me hard here

FoJul

So if I'm understanding this correctly, we made a forum post because we died to a proc set?

Instead of blaming procs, we blame AB, because its one of the only proc that counters keep zergs/ball groups. But tarnished/way of fire/ Anthelmir/Snake in the stars/ Relequen/Plaguebreak/VD, etc. etc., are all fine?

If you wanna say AB is too strong, you might as well just start saying damage proc sets in PvP are too strong. I think the 1 shot heavy attack gankers are more annoying than ball groups personally.

A ball group is like a bug light, people see lots of enemies gathered, and they flock. The smart bugs dont flock to the light.

Gankers are like mosquitos. You can't seem them until it's to late.

Dying in 1 shot and being perma stunned by my own mount and not getting CC immune just to be stunned again. MINT

Jsmalls

To be fair Ball Groups use an unbalanced aspect of the game (stacking HoTs) to gain an advantage against a mostly disorganized larger group.

That unbalanced aspect (HoT stacking) allows the ball group to make various mistakes with positioning, timing, and reactive defenses and still survive.

I'm not saying there aren't aspects of Ball grouping that doesn't involve skill. I'm saying it's currently masked with the ease of survival, coupled with pull sets doing the grouping of enemies for you.

Edit: For example, let's say one member of the group falls behind. I have to punch though their 40k health bar coupled with 20k HPS even though they made a mistake and separated from the group.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After removing some unnecessary back and forth from this thread, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here

Xanttious

Here is yet a another reason why it should be nerfed.

Just did some testing myself, with a few others. Blight is completely ignoring resists. Tested the set. Test one: with close to max resists, and the person wearing the set only had 3k pen. The blight hit was for 4.3k. Second test was with absolutely no armor and no resists, blight hit for 4.8 which is well within the range. To me these numbers don't make any sense, and shows that Blight is completely ignoring resists.

If someone else would like to test this who is better at numbers for these type of tests, I welcome it. I'm curious of your results. But this is yet another reason the set needs to be nerfed, if this holds true.