Azureblight nerf needed

Xanttious

This post is regarding the Azureblight set and why it should be nerfed for PvP
.
This set has been out for a while now since Zos has changed how the set works, and it’s getting worse every day. For the sake of not having this post taken down I won't mention any names or alliances in which this takes place. This set is, in my opinion, being exploited in a way ZOS didn't intend for it to work.

I have run a PvP guild now for over 4 years on the Gray host server. The majority of the groups I lead are just casual (“pick-up” / “Non-comp”) groups with guild members and a weekly scheduled; Ball Group (“comped”) for a couple hours. This post stems from running both types of groups. It is not only my groups but other groups across all factions experiencing this as well.

When this set was first revamped you would see it out in cryo in small-man groups or on solo players which isn't the issue, this set allowed solo or small-mans to be competitive in the zergs atmosphere that is the majority of Cyrodill play; and helps those individuals be able to contribute to the task at hand (taking keeps/defending).

However, as time has gone by this set has been introduced into the 12 man group where anywhere from 4-7 people are running it in the same group. This damage cannot be mitigated or avoided since all they have to do is stack their AOE(most the time from a distance). There is no amount of shielding or healing that combats this set and as a group going against it there is nothing you can do about it other than step away from your group in hopes u don't proc it onto others. In my opinion, these conditions are leading to the exploitation of this set.

This set cannot be purged, and when you have 4-7 people casting it on a group of players, either casual or ball, that group just stands no chance. It’s taking away all enjoyable grouped play. Even in my casual groups I like when members stay around crown and with this set out there this isn't possible. It defeats the purpose of grouping up going against groups running 4-7 of these sets.

Not to mention a lot of the time the groups that are doing this run with the rest of the faction (zerg) so it’s not like you can pick or target these players down first. Some will argue that it’s the counter for the "ball groups" and that is why it won't be nerfed but this is not the case as it is influencing anyone in a group.

Alot of people hate on "ball" groups yet they don't understand the time and commitment members of these group take to put these comps together. It’s ALOT more than just stacking heals. Its ALOT of trial and error. Ball groups are only as strong as their weakest member, It takes one person in group not knowing what they are doing to screw over the whole group over. Nevertheless "Ball" groups are easy to counter when you have the experience to do so, especially without this set.

I want to reiterate that this is affecting both casual and ball groups in Cyrodiil as a whole.

We as ESO players have seen nerfs to Vicious Death, Plaguebreak, Dark Convergence, Rush of Agony, and Tarnished because they are all where over preforming, performing in a way the ruined gameplay, just as this set currently is doing. It’s to the point where a player’s skill doesn't matter anymore going against this set; and to the point where it’s pointless to even start groups up when you know these groups running 4-7 of this set are out there. You’re better off running solo. In a game that is meant for group play these are sad times.

SkaraMinoc

Udrath

Both sides should stop being sweaty optimised groups and all run solo builds, but in a group. PvP community is small enough as it is…pretty bad when ball groups are bigger than pick up groups now a days

Marcelovski

Running an azure blight setup as a group is just as much a "comp" and requires "commitment" to put together too. It is only effective when you have at the very least 4 people running it with their whole build centered around it. Furthermore, it is only viable in specific situations. Countering ballgroups is one of the few reasons to run an azure blight group. It only works when people are stacked, and is quite weak otherwise.

Xanttious

As i stated above the issue isn't when its few people running it does what its supposed to. The issue lies in when you group leads having their group run 4-7 it becomes overwhelming. This isn't just a issue for just ball groups. Its a issue for casual group to which i also stated above i run 90% of the time. I only run ball group 4 hours each week. The rest of the time its guild casual groups.

Marcelovski wrote: »

Running an azure blight setup as a group is just as much a "comp" and requires "commitment" to put together too. It is only effective when you have at the very least 4 people running it with their whole build centered around it. Furthermore, it is only viable in specific situations. Countering ballgroups is one of the few reasons to run an azure blight group. It only works when people are stacked, and is quite weak otherwise.

This shouldn't be a needed method to kill "Ball groups" it is very possible to do so without these sets on. The set is being abused when you run 4 or more in the group hence the post. Since i haven't mentioned any name or anything i will go as far as saying its the "Lazy" raid leads comp build.

Udrath wrote: »

Both sides should stop being sweaty optimised groups and all run solo builds, but in a group. PvP community is small enough as it is…pretty bad when ball groups are bigger than pick up groups now a days

I agree most the time i can't even get a full pug group going unless its on the weekend (mind you i only take guildies) but once again this set makes it even hard for those casual groups to be effective when those group running 4+ in them r out there

JakaWild

You say it makes it hard on casual/pug groups but they aren't stacking in a ball like comp groups do.azureblight is effective against one thing.stacking.

If your having problems with other ballgroups using it just start using it in your comp groups.This set is useless in every other scenario.

Photosniper89

Azure blight over procs and scales way to easy.

Xanttious

JakaWild wrote: »

You say it makes it hard on casual/pug groups but they aren't stacking in a ball like comp groups do.azureblight is effective against one thing.stacking.



what do u call a zerg.... a stack a players... correct?? and i keep my casual groups tight around crown... even if we r not "ball grouping".

To me whats the point of being in a group if u r spread all over the place.... at that point u may as run around solo

JakaWild

Xanttious wrote: »

what do u call a zerg.... a stack a players... correct?? and i keep my casual groups tight around crown... even if we r not "ball grouping".

To me whats the point of being in a group if u r spread all over the place.... at that point u may as run around solo

a zerg is just a large number of players.zergs dont stack on a single person (crown).I play in ballgroups too.We both know why you want to stack.You want those 12+ vigors.those 8+ radiating regens. You want your heal stacking.

No pugs or randoms are complaining about azureblight.You know what the majority are complaining about? ballgroups.
Its OP to you because you want to stack.Your heal/shield stacking is considered OP to solos and everyone else.

MidniteOwl1913

Azureblight is a very useful PVE set. It sounds like it is a good counter for some PVP styles.

Nothing I see here suggests it is out of balance.

There are constant complaints about ball groups. Why would ZOS want to nerf one of the counters?

Xanttious

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Azureblight is a very useful PVE set. It sounds like it is a good counter for some PVP styles.

Nothing I see here suggests it is out of balance.

There are constant complaints about ball groups. Why would ZOS want to nerf one of the counters?

Ill start with this one because its a whole lot easier. 1. this is a PvP post so bringing up that is a useful set in PvE doesn't really matter here. On top of that Zos has been trying to do sometime about the power creep since almost everyone now a days can pull over 100k without even trying. Losing one set your of the PvE arsenal isn't going to hurt their damage that much. The second part i will get back to in a moment.

JakaWild wrote: »

show previous quotes

Xanttious wrote: »

what do u call a zerg.... a stack a players... correct?? and i keep my casual groups tight around crown... even if we r not "ball grouping".

To me whats the point of being in a group if u r spread all over the place.... at that point u may as run around solo

a zerg is just a large number of players.zergs dont stack on a single person (crown).I play in ballgroups too.We both know why you want to stack.You want those 12+ vigors.those 8+ radiating regens. You want your heal stacking.

No pugs or randoms are complaining about azureblight.You know what the majority are complaining about? ballgroups.
Its OP to you because you want to stack.Your heal/shield stacking is considered OP to solos and everyone else.

The issue here doesn't lie necessary with the zergs themself and what they do in open field. Yes in open field this set is going to be a lot less effective. The issue comes with push-in on keeps or in the tight corridors of inner keeps where players are forced to get concentrated. example would be back flag of keep (non-tri keeps). The reason you don't hear much about it from pugs or randoms is because its not a everyday occurrence. Its only select few groups that are running and it makes for the reasons i stated above a lot harder or impossible depending on how well the keep is already being defended by siege. Like i said above i only run my ball group 4 hours every week, but i put a ALOT more hours into the game then i probably should leading casual group. Yes we are in coms and organized, but not comped even close to a ball group comp. I'm telling your from both sides, since i run both, that it still is a issue. If i were to start making this comps a regular thing in my casual groups trust me you would start hearing ALOT more posts on here about it. Like i said above there is, and you should know this also Jaka ball groups are fairly easy to kill if you know how to, there is no need for a added set that is completely overpowered for what it does per the math from above

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Agree that 4+ players running Azureblight is enough to force any ball group out of a keep. Even 1 or 2 good Azureblight players plus ~10 randoms is often enough to push ball groups away.

Azureblight stack generation of 10+ stacks per second is not balanced.
((8k azureblight * 12 players) / 2s proc) * (2s proc - 0.5s cooldown / 2s proc) = 36k dps per player

Maybe limit the number of stacks to something like 5 per second.

This doesn't even include the amount of lag this set causes. If you don't believe me, next time u go up against a group that is running it, turn your shadows on if you have them off. I play on a 10 thousand dollar machine and it still lags me. I shouldn't have to play with shadows off because of one set.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

The only issue with the set is the stack building rate scaling with more players. However the set is perfectly manageable with correct movement and support/damage (just killing the enemies).

BetterAtChess

I think the set is fine given the current state of PVP. It's a strong counter to ball groups that are a plague in cryo.

If ZoS ever adjust HoT stacking and other problematic issues with large group PVP then I'd be fine with a nerf to Azureblight.

Xanttious

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

The only issue with the set is the stack building rate scaling with more players. However the set is perfectly manageable with correct movement and support/damage (just killing the enemies).

I'm not asking for a complete nerf of the set, but as your stated, the stack building rate is where the issue is. Its manageable to a extent, and being able to put markers on these targets does help also to a extent as far as focusing them. This however still isn't a solution to the underlying problem, the stack rate.

would be nice is Zos chimed in and with something other then "working as intended" because i feel like they didn't intend 4-7 people in the same group running this set at the same time. Just like they didn't intend for the heal stacking to ultimately lead to the what we now know as the ball group. It is a issue, that should be addressed before it gets worse.

There is no where even in sets description that tells your how big the explosion is after it goes off which is also a problem.... Is it 2 meters, is it 8. Feel like that would be useful information.

BahometZ

Absolute non-issue.

TechMaybeHic

Not finding it an issue. Far worse things out there

divnyi

Players sticking as a one blob of ~8m radius shouldn't be the most effective tactic.

dinokstrunz

Azureblight is fine.

Ball groups need counters and there aren't many. Azureblight is probably the best option.

Photosniper89

To all those people saying its fine... throw caltrops down on the entry of a door and you can't walk in without being blown to bits. You now have to take at min 2 walls down to get anything done when running across a group who runs blight. I can't imagine being so... (gonna censor myself here) that you run a azure blight comp.

Skraggy

Type in "ball group" in the search function and you can see mountains of threads complaining about stacking, cross-healing and absurd shields. This is unfun for any solo/pug player in Cyrodiil. People complain in the forums, and in zone chat. Most ball groups don't even siege -- they exist purely to just mow down pugs. Some siege only to get into a keep and then mow people across the T for sometimes hours in the morning because it is off prime time and they have no competition. I have seen people straight up AFK or leave the zone because an entire time block is ruined by a ball group mowing down pugs for hours.

Any GvG game worth its salt has varying group pvp compositions with strong points and weaknesses. DAOC and Shadowbane had them and many more games. ESO is a bit stale as most people run the same style... insert a pull and your bomb set with a few other broken classes for extreme defense and go to town. Don't even get me start on Rush of Agony especially in lag with movement desync pulling from 30 meters *cough cough*.

Having a set that counters this horrible meta of ball groups is absolutely healthy for the game. If you are having trouble with it then I suggest finding out a new comp to combat such groups; but, that would likely bite into your ability to relentlessly mow down pugs since you'd have to give up some sets.

Pretty disingenuous acting like this is an issue and ball groups itself isn't. No pug is crying about Azureblight. I was solo yesterday evening and a group was running it in GH and it was way better than groups chain pulling a blowing everyone up. Step aside, and get reprieve from DoTs as a solo player because guess why? The set specializes in destroying ball groups.

Some napkin math of perfect scenario DPS ignoring the variability of PvP isn't going to convince people into believing this is a hindrance to their fun. Truthfully, I hope more people read this thread and find that 2 players, as you claim, can fold your ball group like a lawn chair with azureblight decide to run this so whenever ball groups decide to ruin everyone's time off peak then they can annihilate them.

Photosniper89

Skraggy wrote: »

[snip]

Type in "ball group" in the search function and you can see mountains of threads complaining about stacking, cross-healing and absurd shields. This is unfun for any solo/pug player in Cyrodiil. People complain in the forums, and in zone chat. Most ball groups don't even siege -- they exist purely to just mow down pugs. Some siege only to get into a keep and then mow people across the T for sometimes hours in the morning because it is off prime time and they have no competition. I have seen people straight up AFK or leave the zone because an entire time block is ruined by a ball group mowing down pugs for hours.

Any GvG game worth its salt has varying group pvp compositions with strong points and weaknesses. DAOC and Shadowbane had them and many more games. ESO is a bit stale as most people run the same style... insert a pull and your bomb set with a few other broken classes for extreme defense and go to town. Don't even get me start on Rush of Agony especially in lag with movement desync pulling from 30 meters *cough cough*.

Having a set that counters this horrible meta of ball groups is absolutely healthy for the game. If you are having trouble with it then I suggest finding out a new comp to combat such groups; but, that would likely bite into your ability to relentlessly mow down pugs since you'd have to give up some sets.

Pretty disingenuous acting like this is an issue and ball groups itself isn't. No pug is crying about Azureblight. I was solo yesterday evening and a group was running it in GH and it was way better than groups chain pulling a blowing everyone up. Step aside, and get reprieve from DoTs as a solo player because guess why? The set specializes in destroying ball groups.

Some napkin math of perfect scenario DPS ignoring the variability of PvP isn't going to convince people into believing this is a hindrance to their fun. Truthfully, I hope more people read this thread and find that 2 players, as you claim, can fold your ball group like a lawn chair with azureblight decide to run this so whenever ball groups decide to ruin everyone's time off peak then they can annihilate them.

[snip]

I made a post about rush pulling way farther then the tool tip and it having negative effects in lag but I got roasted. I agree with you, rush is broken and needs to be fixed.

[edited to remove quote]

TechMaybeHic

I kind of feel like mass pulls like rush and dark con were the real reason Necros self synergy got nerfed, and it should have been the other way around. I think that is still the case now being applied to Azureblight

It's fine for what it is if you were not force stacked by mass pulls

Desiato

for the love of god, will someone please think about the plight of the poor, suffering ball groups!!!!

Jierdanit

There should be more sets that allow people to kill zergs and ballgroups, not less.

Azure is absolutely fine.

dinokstrunz

Photosniper89 wrote: »

To all those people saying its fine... throw caltrops down on the entry of a door and you can't walk in without being blown to bits. You now have to take at min 2 walls down to get anything done when running across a group who runs blight. I can't imagine being so... (gonna censor myself here) that you run a azure blight comp.

The "Skilful ball group" is upset that a solid counterplay option exists? Just go play no proc if you can't stand counterplay. Oh yeah that's going in the bin too

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Photosniper89 wrote: »

To all those people saying its fine... throw caltrops down on the entry of a door and you can't walk in without being blown to bits. You now have to take at min 2 walls down to get anything done when running across a group who runs blight. I can't imagine being so... (gonna censor myself here) that you run a azure blight comp.

if only skills existed in game which removed ground effects in the radius of a breach and prevented their casting for a short duration.

xylena_lazarow

ball groups when something actually counters their strat:

PureEnvelope35

Friend of mine often ballgroups and his group found the counter for Azureblight was simply keeping up their heals properly or just having one or two heals added into the mix for 12 man, or simply running 8 man instead, Azureblight so far is the only thing that can really out-damage the high amount of healing a full 12 man ballgroup has when they aren't expecting the damage, if the damage is expected they seemed to outheal it pretty easily.

TybaltKaine

As an Azureblight/stealth bomb enjoyer, I have to disagree. AB is fine, and works wonders against the real plague of PVP, ball groups.

Xanttious

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Photosniper89 wrote: »

To all those people saying its fine... throw caltrops down on the entry of a door and you can't walk in without being blown to bits. You now have to take at min 2 walls down to get anything done when running across a group who runs blight. I can't imagine being so... (gonna censor myself here) that you run a azure blight comp.

if only skills existed in game which removed ground effects in the radius of a breach and prevented their casting for a short duration.

Once again thats great for a comped group that has sorcs in. Like i have said its effects not just ball groups, it effects normal (casual) groups too. I should have left ball groups out of this on my original post since that to what everyone on here is focusing on, and you all are missing the bigger picture.
When i run my casual groups i don't care what people bring, or what sets they are wearing. My 2 rules is to stick on crown, and 32k health or higher.There is no point to run in a group if your not on crown (or around crown) your not helping the group. In fact you become a hindrance on the group imo in your not and we have to take the time to find out where you are to rez you ect. I've ran groups that have no sorcs, or groups like last night where i had 6 sorcs. The point of my casual groups is not to force people to play positions or classes they don't want, that is why on any given day the group comp changes. Same goes with healers in group, where i've literally have had a full groups with no healers(everyone wants the kills) in it and i've had to go to the armory to switch my build to healer so the group has heals.

Jierdanit wrote: »

There should be more sets that allow people to kill zergs and ballgroups, not less.

Azure is absolutely fine.

Your never going to not have "Zergs" its a MMORPG, nor should you. If your didn't know the first letter there stands for Massive. Zergs have been around since DAOC days. If you want to duo or play solo thats your prerogative (pretty sure this is 3/4 of DC but it is what it is), but remember the game wasn't meant for people to do so. It was made for group play. It was made for massive battles at keeps and outpost. Now that has been limited to a extent due to lag and Zos having to lower player caps in cyro, but that's a completely different subject.

Photosniper89 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Skraggy wrote: »

[snip]

Type in "ball group" in the search function and you can see mountains of threads complaining about stacking, cross-healing and absurd shields. This is unfun for any solo/pug player in Cyrodiil. People complain in the forums, and in zone chat. Most ball groups don't even siege -- they exist purely to just mow down pugs. Some siege only to get into a keep and then mow people across the T for sometimes hours in the morning because it is off prime time and they have no competition. I have seen people straight up AFK or leave the zone because an entire time block is ruined by a ball group mowing down pugs for hours.

Any GvG game worth its salt has varying group pvp compositions with strong points and weaknesses. DAOC and Shadowbane had them and many more games. ESO is a bit stale as most people run the same style... insert a pull and your bomb set with a few other broken classes for extreme defense and go to town. Don't even get me start on Rush of Agony especially in lag with movement desync pulling from 30 meters *cough cough*.

Having a set that counters this horrible meta of ball groups is absolutely healthy for the game. If you are having trouble with it then I suggest finding out a new comp to combat such groups; but, that would likely bite into your ability to relentlessly mow down pugs since you'd have to give up some sets.

Pretty disingenuous acting like this is an issue and ball groups itself isn't. No pug is crying about Azureblight. I was solo yesterday evening and a group was running it in GH and it was way better than groups chain pulling a blowing everyone up. Step aside, and get reprieve from DoTs as a solo player because guess why? The set specializes in destroying ball groups.

Some napkin math of perfect scenario DPS ignoring the variability of PvP isn't going to convince people into believing this is a hindrance to their fun. Truthfully, I hope more people read this thread and find that 2 players, as you claim, can fold your ball group like a lawn chair with azureblight decide to run this so whenever ball groups decide to ruin everyone's time off peak then they can annihilate them.

[snip]

I made a post about rush pulling way farther then the tool tip and it having negative effects in lag but I got roasted. I agree with you, rush is broken and needs to be fixed.

[edited to remove quote]

I've already have been roasted and harassed in zone chat about this post, I'm one to never report people, but since i know your doing it because you have seen my post on here, this is your warning because next time i see it i will be reporting you.

Also your correct rush has been broken and how it works since they added the delay(i run this set on the regular because i'm always group lead), but that's a topic for another post.

All the harassment ect that you or in this case towards me about this post, just proves to me that people know this set is overpowered the way it seats now. Like i said above i am going to start telling my guild members to start farming this set and bringing it out into cryo, and we'll revisit this post next month and you can tell me how you all feel then. This isn't something i want to do because the negative effects its going to have on pvp but it something i will do to prove a point. It isn't a problem right now due to it being a small portion of the community using it, but if it starts to become mainstream people will start complaining.

I've put more hours into leading groups then 99% of the people that play in cryo. I'm not boasting about that because it proves i have nothing better to do with my time at this point in my life. It does however show that i'm not making this up (more so since it was wroth my time to post on here, which i never do) and that ive seen the negative effects that it is already having no only on ball groups (for me 4 hours a week), but casual groups as well.

xylena_lazarow

Xanttious wrote: »

but if it starts to become mainstream people will start complaining.

Azure will never be mainstream because it's a miserable grind and 100% worthless outside its niche of blowing up ball groups, who have grown spoiled from never ever having to deal with hard counters to their strat. They play the same for years, never a need to adapt, because ZOS keeps nerfing the hell out of anything that might actually threaten them, while adding things like Arc group shields and Snow Treaders which delete yet more counterplay.

Nobody is entitled to never die.