"item expired" messages so frequent I dread logging on now, please revert limitation

Syldras

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I used to have a lot more gold in the bank, but I stopped doing daily writs on all of my alts, so my gold supply is dwindling. I'm not spending it often, but when I do it tends to be something that sets me back a bit, so I end up losing ground over time rather than gaining more ground. It might be nice-- as far as earning more gold-- to go back to crafting on all of my alts, but I want to spend more time playing the game and less time doing chores.
So for me, I tend to not use the guild traders except when I feel like I really "need" to. And that isn't "new" for me, it's pretty much how I've always been.

I do daily crafting on only 1 character because I also want to do something else in the 2 hours I have in the evening. But I'm in a trading guild (which I originally joined to declutter bank and inventories because I had so many duplicate plans) with a sales minimum of 250k gold per week, which ensures a continuous flow and is much more than I usually spend in the same time. No problem buying a desired plan every now and then. Before the Zenithar event, I had about 10 millions in my bank, after the event, where I stocked up on houses to furnish and bought different plans, I'm still at 5 millions. Without housing, I wouldn't even know what to do with all that gold.

Charlesce

Better sell my curse of an Aetheric Cipher - what was once a blessing valued at ~7M - for 1M, to ensure I don't have to pay 30k every 14 days for "overpricing" it at 3M.

Also, it's just more pointless inventory work, shuffling items around to make space to accept expired items every day just to relist them at a loss and still not be able to sell them because the price tanks even more within 12hrs of making the listing.

Scarefish

There shouldn't be limits. Just keep the taxes in place, and actually ban all bots.

Tandor

WolfCombatPet wrote: »

Most players that buy things are newish players.

What things do newish players need to buy, and where do they get the gold from with which to buy them?

Shara_Wynn

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

while i understand its frustrating to get expiry emails, at the same time it means the item was either not priced correctly (too high), or there was no demand for said item

if it gets returned to me i just take my previously listed price, relist with the new pricing data average, or if i had no data, just relist it lower than my previous listing

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

I'm selling all my stuff at half what TTC recommends and it's still not selling. Losing so much money because of it.

TTC recommends whatever people have things listed at, which is likely far too high still, doesn't necessarily indicate stuff is selling at that price

What would your recommended then as a means to determining a decent list price for any given item, one which will sell and still be worth the sellers time in listing it?

TTC is the best guide out there. It's not perfect but it's better than any other alternative.

Also there is no possible way that anyone can claim that TTC prices are "likely far too high" unless they spent the time to go around every trader in Tamriel to check, every single item listed, every single time.

vsrs_au

Personally, I think TTC is self-correcting over time. If TTC prices for an item are too high, the item eventually gets sold for a lower price, which then gets added to the TTC database, i.e. a feedback loop. That's why I find the TTC addon useful.

LaintalAy

edited

kringled_1

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

while i understand its frustrating to get expiry emails, at the same time it means the item was either not priced correctly (too high), or there was no demand for said item

if it gets returned to me i just take my previously listed price, relist with the new pricing data average, or if i had no data, just relist it lower than my previous listing

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

I'm selling all my stuff at half what TTC recommends and it's still not selling. Losing so much money because of it.

TTC recommends whatever people have things listed at, which is likely far too high still, doesn't necessarily indicate stuff is selling at that price

What would your recommended then as a means to determining a decent list price for any given item, one which will sell and still be worth the sellers time in listing it?

TTC is the best guide out there. It's not perfect but it's better than any other alternative.

Also there is no possible way that anyone can claim that TTC prices are "likely far too high" unless they spent the time to go around every trader in Tamriel to check, every single item listed, every single time.

IMO, none of the tools are reliable in a market experiencing rapid deflation.
Also, TTC recommendations are already discounted substantially from the center of the listings, so some assumption that the listings are on the high side is built in.

James-Wayne

If you can't sell your items, it's because it's too expensive.

xilfxlegion

i dont mind the 14 day listings because my stuff is priced to sell.

but since maps do not stack and i buy a lot of them it was nice to use the mail as extra storage for 30 days -- but now when you cancel a listing the email only lasts 7 days -- this part i wish they would change back -- or make maps stackable

freespirit

For frequently sold items I use the MM graph to see what has happened to prices across my guilds in the recent past. I have my MM focus set to 10 days, atm that is more than long enough to spot the downward trend in prices and for those items I then price accordingly.

For less popular/higher priced items I visit the TTC website, I find TTC's ingame info to be quite inaccurate atm with prices dropping like they are, TTC ingame takes time to catch up to current trends.

Quite often TTC will quote a lowest/minimum listing price which have absolutely no bearing on what is currently available, a visit to the website works for sellers and buyers alike.

If I have a high priced item I definitely check the website and also then go check if the cheapest items are still available and how long they have been there if they are.

Is this a time consuming faff...... yes BUT I am currently not getting hit with high numbers of expired mails!! 🙂

Elsonso

Tandor wrote: »

WolfCombatPet wrote: »

Most players that buy things are newish players.

What things do newish players need to buy, and where do they get the gold from with which to buy them?

Well, if they are leveling up crafting, they may be looking for cheap gear in the trait they want so they can research it. These are akin "charity items" posted by players to help new players. They do not have a high profit margin and don't make a lot of gold. Charity is the first to go when things get tougher, and ZOS made things tougher.

Necrotech_Master

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

while i understand its frustrating to get expiry emails, at the same time it means the item was either not priced correctly (too high), or there was no demand for said item

if it gets returned to me i just take my previously listed price, relist with the new pricing data average, or if i had no data, just relist it lower than my previous listing

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

I'm selling all my stuff at half what TTC recommends and it's still not selling. Losing so much money because of it.

TTC recommends whatever people have things listed at, which is likely far too high still, doesn't necessarily indicate stuff is selling at that price

What would your recommended then as a means to determining a decent list price for any given item, one which will sell and still be worth the sellers time in listing it?

TTC is the best guide out there. It's not perfect but it's better than any other alternative.

Also there is no possible way that anyone can claim that TTC prices are "likely far too high" unless they spent the time to go around every trader in Tamriel to check, every single item listed, every single time.

i use arkadius trade tools (though master merchant is also pretty good) as both of them are based on actual sales seen in your guilds

this does rely on having several at least moderately active trade guilds to have enough sales seen, and both these addons can show a graph to see trends

ive never really trusted TTC prices because its based on listing prices, people could list say a common provisioning ingredient for absurd amount and that would throw it off and raise the price average

Nestor

14 days is too short. My guilds do not get a trader each week, they miss one week and get the trader back again. I have to relist. I did that with 20 items just this week.

belial5221_ESO

It's why you never use avg/min/max for ttc,that is way too skewed,suggested is best cause removes outliers.MM/ATT is good cause it's real sales,not list prices.Use both for a better idea on how much to sell,and make sure the more sales/listings,the better an item will sell.I sell lots of pricey stuff,at close to ttc/MM/ATT prices,but it's stuff ppl want,not just niche items or junk.

I_killed_Vivec

LaintalAy wrote: »

I left two guilds today because I won't be generating enough to support them.

And isn't that sad? Is that what ZoS really want, people leaving guilds? If people find it more difficult and more expensive to sell/relist then more people will be leaving guilds.

I thought they wanted to encourage more group involvement, not less.

LunaFlora

you know it could be useful when listing something to think "Would i buy this if somebody else listed it for this price?",
especially if you are thinking of listing something for more than 100k.

Necrotech_Master

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

I left two guilds today because I won't be generating enough to support them.

And isn't that sad? Is that what ZoS really want, people leaving guilds? If people find it more difficult and more expensive to sell/relist then more people will be leaving guilds.

I thought they wanted to encourage more group involvement, not less.

i think thats more of a personal thing

i feel im supporting the guild as long as im making sales, i remember back in the day when there were no traders and i still participated in trading guilds

some people feel they need to contribute extra or whatever, the trader bid prices will have to drop at some point because the current rates are not sustainable when items are selling for less

guilds will just have to adapt to the change

Jaraal

reazea wrote: »

Every time I log on now I'm getting 5-15 "item expired" messages and it's getting to where It's discouraging me from logging on. Fourteen days is simply too short of a listing duration, especially when the market is slumping and slowing so drastically at the same time. Trade guilds are really feeling the pinch these days and the 14 day listing time is hurting them the most.

Agreed.

It's pretty dismaying to see stuff popping back in the mail so soon. It's like, didn't I just list that? And now it's back. It's discouraging to think that your listing fee vanished so quickly. And if you relist it (and pay again to do so) and it comes back again because nobody's buying... what's the point? And to add insult to injury, ZOS thought it would be a good idea to permanently taunt us with flashing mail icons that we can no longer stop by clicking on the item. And the performance increases we were told would be brought by these changes? Has anyone seen them? Anyone?

kargen27

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

I left two guilds today because I won't be generating enough to support them.

And isn't that sad? Is that what ZoS really want, people leaving guilds? If people find it more difficult and more expensive to sell/relist then more people will be leaving guilds.

I thought they wanted to encourage more group involvement, not less.

This assumes the 14 day limit is the cause of price drops. Nothing really supports that assumption. A more likely reason is the onslaught of events we have had to celebrate the ten year anniversary. The market is fluid and sometimes we get a big bump or dip in prices. Then slowly prices return. The 14 day limit might cause the market to adjust up and down quicker. With thirty days when something didn't sell a lot of players would just let the item ride. So others see the high listing and might not make the adjustment they need to meet the current market worth. With fourteen days those outpriced items get removed sooner allowing for a quicker market response.

Shara_Wynn

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

while i understand its frustrating to get expiry emails, at the same time it means the item was either not priced correctly (too high), or there was no demand for said item

if it gets returned to me i just take my previously listed price, relist with the new pricing data average, or if i had no data, just relist it lower than my previous listing

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

I'm selling all my stuff at half what TTC recommends and it's still not selling. Losing so much money because of it.

TTC recommends whatever people have things listed at, which is likely far too high still, doesn't necessarily indicate stuff is selling at that price

What would your recommended then as a means to determining a decent list price for any given item, one which will sell and still be worth the sellers time in listing it?

TTC is the best guide out there. It's not perfect but it's better than any other alternative.

Also there is no possible way that anyone can claim that TTC prices are "likely far too high" unless they spent the time to go around every trader in Tamriel to check, every single item listed, every single time.

i use arkadius trade tools (though master merchant is also pretty good) as both of them are based on actual sales seen in your guilds

this does rely on having several at least moderately active trade guilds to have enough sales seen, and both these addons can show a graph to see trends

ive never really trusted TTC prices because its based on listing prices, people could list say a common provisioning ingredient for absurd amount and that would throw it off and raise the price average

As only one of the guilds I am a member of has a regular trader, both MM and ATT are not very useful to me. I think I will stick to TTC as unlike both of your suggestions, TTC covers all guild traders.

Also I am sure they (TTC) are quite explicit in that they are very careful in dealing with outliers in their calculations for their recommended prices so your example of "people could list say a common provisioning ingredient for absurd amount and that would throw it off and raise the price average" doesn't hold water for me. But I think your post was "insightful" none the less

DenverRalphy

The whole "If it doesn't sell within 14 days, it's too expensive" battle-cry is getting really stale. Especially since it's simply just not true.

Not everything sells rapidly because it's priced really cheap. Many items don't sell until somebody specifically looks for that item. Furnishing plans are a prime example. You can list several furnishing plans of the same style (ie.. Leyawiin/Elsweyr/etc..) cheaper than anybody's ever listed them before, and they can still sit there on the trader for significantly longer than 14 days, and then on week 3 or 4 they all sell out in a manner of minutes. And that's just one example. There are countless other items that can sit for longer simply because it's something somebody has to specifically or tangentially for before it's seen and purchased.

The change to 14day listings has absolutely nothing to do with the economy in the game. While having to relist for another fee is annoying... it's not THAT annoying. The only people even remotely affected by it by any real measure are people who are listing items that are 2-3+ Million. And those items account for a very very small portion of all sales through the traders.

Necrotech_Master

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

while i understand its frustrating to get expiry emails, at the same time it means the item was either not priced correctly (too high), or there was no demand for said item

if it gets returned to me i just take my previously listed price, relist with the new pricing data average, or if i had no data, just relist it lower than my previous listing

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

I'm selling all my stuff at half what TTC recommends and it's still not selling. Losing so much money because of it.

TTC recommends whatever people have things listed at, which is likely far too high still, doesn't necessarily indicate stuff is selling at that price

What would your recommended then as a means to determining a decent list price for any given item, one which will sell and still be worth the sellers time in listing it?

TTC is the best guide out there. It's not perfect but it's better than any other alternative.

Also there is no possible way that anyone can claim that TTC prices are "likely far too high" unless they spent the time to go around every trader in Tamriel to check, every single item listed, every single time.

i use arkadius trade tools (though master merchant is also pretty good) as both of them are based on actual sales seen in your guilds

this does rely on having several at least moderately active trade guilds to have enough sales seen, and both these addons can show a graph to see trends

ive never really trusted TTC prices because its based on listing prices, people could list say a common provisioning ingredient for absurd amount and that would throw it off and raise the price average

As only one of the guilds I am a member of has a regular trader, both MM and ATT are not very useful to me. I think I will stick to TTC as unlike both of your suggestions, TTC covers all guild traders.

Also I am sure they (TTC) are quite explicit in that they are very careful in dealing with outliers in their calculations for their recommended prices so your example of "people could list say a common provisioning ingredient for absurd amount and that would throw it off and raise the price average" doesn't hold water for me. But I think your post was "insightful" none the less

ive never really used TTC, but from what people have said, the "suggested" price ignores outliers

to me thats bad because its ignoring data, all data is still relevant and should be easy to tell outliers if they displayed a graph of the data like MM or ATT

i would agree in your case its probably the best option, but have to keep in mind listed prices does not equal items actually selling at those prices

there could be 1000 listings for an item at X amount, but those items may or may not sell at that price, i find the best use of TTC actually helping buyers just find the items they are looking for, which in turn usually do lead to more sales

belial5221_ESO

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ive never really used TTC, but from what people have said, the "suggested" price ignores outliers

to me thats bad because its ignoring data, all data is still relevant and should be easy to tell outliers if they displayed a graph of the data like MM or ATT

Outliers are ignored for a reason,cause of gold selelrs/buyers overpricing,and noobs using the price zos sets for npcs.You still get the min/max/avg to see how varied listing is.No need to see that if you gonna look at a graph and ignore same data anyway.Also,ttc ingame data is once a day updated,so would probaly cost more to them for the server to constantly change data realtime and need to always upload/download data.So it's better for real sales like MM/ATT to calculate seeing it's alot slower changes,so less data and bandwidth.

MidniteOwl1913

James-Wayne wrote: »

If you can't sell your items, it's because it's too expensive.

No, my 1k armor pieces are not too expensive. What they are is niche. It needs the right buyer. Half the time is half the opportunity for right buyer to come buy.

MidniteOwl1913

Guild are the single best thing about ESO in my opinion. Anything that makes it harder for guilds is a very bad idea.

SpiritKitten

TTC has Avg Sale Price with how many listings sold for that price over how many days, right in the addon tooltip on your item.

ProudMary

The 14 day listing time is a hugely inconvenient change that should be reverted.

code65536

LaintalAy wrote: »

I agree to and meet any sales requirement that guilds require. If I think I'm going to miss the target, I leave. I left two guilds today because I won't be generating enough to support them.

That's a guild management problem.

The falling prices is a good thing because prices on PC, and on PC/NA in particular, have been at unhealthily high levels for years. Back when I was a trade guild GM, 5K was the price for Dreugh Wax, not 50K. Those prices, BTW, are comparable to where consoles are right now.

Prices can crash to a quarter of what they are I'd still call it a healthy correction.

But guild management need to go with the times, too. Back in my day, 7-figure weekly trader bids were considered high, and 8-figure bids were virtually unheard of. Now they're often 8-figure bids. So as the in-game economy continues this long-need correction, guilds need to be adjusting their bids and what they're asking from their membership.

Gandalf_72

reazea wrote: »

Please ZOS, PLEASE, can we please have our item listing duration put back to 30 days? Please?

Every time I log on now I'm getting 5-15 "item expired" messages and it's getting to where It's discouraging me from logging on. Fourteen days is simply too short of a listing duration, especially when the market is slumping and slowing so drastically at the same time. Trade guilds are really feeling the pinch these days and the 14 day listing time is hurting them the most.

I'm listing my items at about 80%, sometimes less, than what add ons say the value of the item is, so any comments to the effect of "lower your prices" are not reasonable responses. It would be more reasonable to tell those of us who've relied heavily on guild sales to just stop participating in buying and selling in game.

@reazea
OP you're right!



added my "Agree" too

Every day I receive more and more expired ones, even though I sell items at very low prices as OP said.