"item expired" messages so frequent I dread logging on now, please revert limitation

Necrotech_Master

vsrs_au wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

DreamyLu wrote: »

I'm surprised: personally, I reset my listings every day. Some rare times, I let it for one more day, but never more. So for me, the 14 instead of 30 has zero impact.

With the prices changing all the time (especially now!), is there an added value to let items for more than one day? I prefer to review every day and adjust items based on what seems to be more "hot" than the day before.

Yep. This takes me about 15 minutes over 4 guilds. Yes, I wear the additional listing fee, because all the things I sell were free or made by me from free stuff. So, I can't possibly be losing any money.

Most people don't use ATT (although it might actually be AGS or the two working together).

A subtle feature of ATT is that items show pricing in colour ranges (deals).
90% off = gold
60% off = purple
40% off = blue
20% off =green
or something like that anyway

With that in mind, once something you listed is more than the suggested price it goes RED.
So it's easy to scroll through your listing and see those items that are dropping in value as the prices show as red figures.

Also bear in mind that when purchasing there's a 'Deal' filter that allows you to select one, or a range of colours to search on at other traders. I always use this filter to exclude items that are RED, or from my perspective, overpriced.

What I'm saying here is that I never even see your overpriced items*, as I always filter them out.

*based on my personal pricing data from my guild memberships.

But most people are Auction House addicts and can't fathom using anything other than TTC.

Those sound like nice features. But I don't use addons at all, so unless ATT or AGS have a website the way TTC does, I guess I'll have to keep using TTC.

i cant even use TTC website anymore because its so heavily ad-laden and it blocks you doing anything if your running an adblocker

It doesn't block you. When you submit a search query and it shows you a reminder notice instead of the results, you simply dismiss the notice and rerun the query. Sometimes you'll have to do this more than once, but the results eventually appear.

(I'm not getting into any debate about whether the ads should be allowed or not, though, it's off topic)

the last time i tried to use it, i dont remember if it was the search page or the results page, but one of them was replaced with a "please turn off adblocker" message and didnt actually display anything else, wasnt a kind of pop up or anything

when some websites show the mask about disabling adblocker, i sometimes get around that by going through the browser debugger and deleting the mask element and fixing the css so i can scroll the web page, but in this case it never actually displayed anything other than a "turn off adblocker" message

its been months since i bothered trying though, as i usually only used the TTC website to find where an item im looking for was located, not pricing

doesnt really bother me either way though because i can live without it

drkfrontiers

The market has crashed because there the ratio of new players to old timers has fallen.

Old timers don't need to buy anything.

ESOs fiddled with quality of life updates which impacted people needing to buy anything. e.g. Gear account locks = one and done.

Elsonso

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

DreamyLu wrote: »

I'm surprised: personally, I reset my listings every day. Some rare times, I let it for one more day, but never more. So for me, the 14 instead of 30 has zero impact.

With the prices changing all the time (especially now!), is there an added value to let items for more than one day? I prefer to review every day and adjust items based on what seems to be more "hot" than the day before.

Yep. This takes me about 15 minutes over 4 guilds. Yes, I wear the additional listing fee, because all the things I sell were free or made by me from free stuff. So, I can't possibly be losing any money.

Most people don't use ATT (although it might actually be AGS or the two working together).

A subtle feature of ATT is that items show pricing in colour ranges (deals).
90% off = gold
60% off = purple
40% off = blue
20% off =green
or something like that anyway

With that in mind, once something you listed is more than the suggested price it goes RED.
So it's easy to scroll through your listing and see those items that are dropping in value as the prices show as red figures.

Also bear in mind that when purchasing there's a 'Deal' filter that allows you to select one, or a range of colours to search on at other traders. I always use this filter to exclude items that are RED, or from my perspective, overpriced.

What I'm saying here is that I never even see your overpriced items*, as I always filter them out.

*based on my personal pricing data from my guild memberships.

But most people are Auction House addicts and can't fathom using anything other than TTC.

Those sound like nice features. But I don't use addons at all, so unless ATT or AGS have a website the way TTC does, I guess I'll have to keep using TTC.

i cant even use TTC website anymore because its so heavily ad-laden and it blocks you doing anything if your running an adblocker

It doesn't block you. When you submit a search query and it shows you a reminder notice instead of the results, you simply dismiss the notice and rerun the query. Sometimes you'll have to do this more than once, but the results eventually appear.

(I'm not getting into any debate about whether the ads should be allowed or not, though, it's off topic)

the last time i tried to use it, i dont remember if it was the search page or the results page, but one of them was replaced with a "please turn off adblocker" message and didnt actually display anything else, wasnt a kind of pop up or anything

when some websites show the mask about disabling adblocker, i sometimes get around that by going through the browser debugger and deleting the mask element and fixing the css so i can scroll the web page, but in this case it never actually displayed anything other than a "turn off adblocker" message

its been months since i bothered trying though, as i usually only used the TTC website to find where an item im looking for was located, not pricing

doesnt really bother me either way though because i can live without it

I don't use TTC or the website, so thanks for the heads up. I generally just hit guild traders in game when I am looking for something.

katanagirl1

drkfrontiers wrote: »

The market has crashed because there the ratio of new players to old timers has fallen.

Old timers don't need to buy anything.

ESOs fiddled with quality of life updates which impacted people needing to buy anything. e.g. Gear account locks = one and done.

I am constantly buying things from traders. I’m into housing so it’s furnishing plans for the new zone when I can find them at a good price. I also buy new motif pages as well, the ones that don’t drop for me.

Most of the long time players I know do the same thing.

reazea

Today I had 32 expired items and 2 sales when I logged on. This is getting exhausting.

Nharimlur_Finor

edited

reazea

LaintalAy wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Today I had 32 expired items and 2 sales when I logged on. This is getting exhausting.

So, here's some instructions:

1. Login in today.
2. Pick a guild
3. check your current listings.
4. Cancel all that will expire in 7 days or less.
5. Go to your mail.
6. Download the attachments from each listing (use the auto-mail-delete X option)
7. Refill your empty slots.

Do this for all guilds.
Takes 10-15 minutes on PC for each guild.

You won't need to do it again for another week.

So for someone like me, who's in 3 trade guilds because that's how many it takes to get all the stuff I collect sold, you think it's reasonable to spend 30-45 minutes every week relisting items? Really?

sarahthes

reazea wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Today I had 32 expired items and 2 sales when I logged on. This is getting exhausting.

So, here's some instructions:

1. Login in today.
2. Pick a guild
3. check your current listings.
4. Cancel all that will expire in 7 days or less.
5. Go to your mail.
6. Download the attachments from each listing (use the auto-mail-delete X option)
7. Refill your empty slots.

Do this for all guilds.
Takes 10-15 minutes on PC for each guild.

You won't need to do it again for another week.

So for someone like me, who's in 3 trade guilds because that's how many it takes to get all the stuff I collect sold, you think it's reasonable to spend 30-45 minutes every week relisting items? Really?

Yes. I spend more time than that already because most of my items sell in 24-48 hours.

reazea

sarahthes wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Today I had 32 expired items and 2 sales when I logged on. This is getting exhausting.

So, here's some instructions:

1. Login in today.
2. Pick a guild
3. check your current listings.
4. Cancel all that will expire in 7 days or less.
5. Go to your mail.
6. Download the attachments from each listing (use the auto-mail-delete X option)
7. Refill your empty slots.

Do this for all guilds.
Takes 10-15 minutes on PC for each guild.

You won't need to do it again for another week.

So for someone like me, who's in 3 trade guilds because that's how many it takes to get all the stuff I collect sold, you think it's reasonable to spend 30-45 minutes every week relisting items? Really?

Yes. I spend more time than that already because most of my items sell in 24-48 hours.

My solution is to radically limit my play time now days so that I won't have to mess with selling anymore. In other words, ZOS is discouraging me from playing more.

EdjeSwift

reazea wrote: »

So for someone like me, who's in 3 trade guilds because that's how many it takes to get all the stuff I collect sold, you think it's reasonable to spend 30-45 minutes every week relisting items? Really?

Depending on your RoI on that time, it's totally reasonable. That's per week, 45 a day then maybe it might be an issue but 45 minutes once per week doesn't seem like that much, I waste more than that scrolling on my phone before bed per day some nights when it's hard to fall asleep.

reazea

EdjeSwift wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

So for someone like me, who's in 3 trade guilds because that's how many it takes to get all the stuff I collect sold, you think it's reasonable to spend 30-45 minutes every week relisting items? Really?

Depending on your RoI on that time, it's totally reasonable. That's per week, 45 a day then maybe it might be an issue but 45 minutes once per week doesn't seem like that much, I waste more than that scrolling on my phone before bed per day some nights when it's hard to fall asleep.

It's probably the scrolling on your phone that's keeping you from falling asleep. That's why so many parents make their kids leave their phone in the kitchen before sending them to bed.

In my mind 45 minutes/week doing something I don't enjoy in game means I should just play less. Same for my phone. My phone stays in my home office when I go to bed.

Nharimlur_Finor

edited

MidniteOwl1913

LikiLoki wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

If you can't sell your items, it's because it's too expensive.

I have several items that were at the lowest price on the server. They're back. This is furniture of a certain style, and it will be bought by the rare person who chooses furniture for the house in this style. Thus, a period of 14 days and the relevance of the price can be applied for a simple product. There should be more time for unique things, these things are waiting for their buyer

Yes, My 1k items aren't overpriced. They are niche. They need the right buyer. If it isn't something a buyer wants cheaper doesn't matter.

MidniteOwl1913

LaintalAy wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Today I had 32 expired items and 2 sales when I logged on. This is getting exhausting.

So, here's some instructions:

1. Login in today.
2. Pick a guild
3. check your current listings.
4. Cancel all that will expire in 7 days or less.
5. Go to your mail.
6. Download the attachments from each listing (use the auto-mail-delete X option)
7. Refill your empty slots.

Do this for all guilds.
Takes 10-15 minutes on PC for each guild.

You won't need to do it again for another week.

You know I don't want to spend that much time managing my sales and before 14 I didn't have too.

Silaf

pklemming wrote: »

ZoS don't revert changes, that would require them listening to the player base.

Remember the uproar over templar jabs? We still have the messed up animation despite overwhelming support for a reversion.

If it can console you the sorcerer ultimate overload is still bugged occasionally freezing in that animation and slowing the character down even if you release it.

In pvp this is obviously super annoying and not rare.

allochthons

reazea wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Today I had 32 expired items and 2 sales when I logged on. This is getting exhausting.

So, here's some instructions:

<snip>

Do this for all guilds.
Takes 10-15 minutes on PC for each guild.

You won't need to do it again for another week.

So for someone like me, who's in 3 trade guilds because that's how many it takes to get all the stuff I collect sold, you think it's reasonable to spend 30-45 minutes every week relisting items? Really?

Before the mail/trader changes, on console, it took me 2 HOURS to check prices and list things, for maybe 15 items. Per week. Because I don't have an add-on that gives me prices, I have to manually visit each trader. And I usually only check Mournhold and Grahtwood. 2 hours+ per week.

Even before the changes, that is not reasonable. Now that things expire twice as fast, it's untenable.

Elsonso

allochthons wrote: »

Before the mail/trader changes, on console, it took me 2 HOURS to check prices and list things, for maybe 15 items. Per week. Because I don't have an add-on that gives me prices, I have to manually visit each trader. And I usually only check Mournhold and Grahtwood. 2 hours+ per week.

Even before the changes, that is not reasonable. Now that things expire twice as fast, it's untenable.

When I established my first characters on PS4 back when it was all shiny and new, I quickly realized that the support that ZOS provided for guild trading was broken, at best. I could tell what people were selling for by running around to traders and looking, but I could only tell what stuff sold for in my guilds by scrolling through logs.

I don't consider that this even reached the point of being the "minimum viable product".

While ZOS has recently started to slowly improve the console UI, it is still barely more advanced than stone knives and bear skins

Any trading activity on console is going to take way longer than it should, by design. This shorter listing time just makes it worse, as suggested above.

boi_anachronism_

James-Wayne wrote: »

If you can't sell your items, it's because it's too expensive.

Thats really dependent on what you are selling. For common items like mats or most motifs, yes probably. When you got items like certain high demand monster style pages or something like the war tort recipe where the the low end price is in the millions it takes a while to sell. The reason is simply that there is a much lower pool of players with pockets that deep. Your average joe doesnt have enough gold to casually blow a mil+ on a whim.

sarahthes

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

If you can't sell your items, it's because it's too expensive.

Thats really dependent on what you are selling. For common items like mats or most motifs, yes probably. When you got items like certain high demand monster style pages or something like the war tort recipe where the the low end price is in the millions it takes a while to sell. The reason is simply that there is a much lower pool of players with pockets that deep. Your average joe doesnt have enough gold to casually blow a mil+ on a whim.

With the market crash, the market for those items gets even smaller. I would say even those high end items probably need to see a price cut to stay competitive.

old_scopie1945

Too much hassle. I just deconstruct all my returns. I then maybe post any of the few high level items I pick up at rock bottom prices. If they don't sell they get deconstructed. In future I may stop selling entirely if things don't improve. Unless you are in one of the big cartels with a monopoly on the prime spots, you are banging your head against a wall. Then these cartels will just flip these low priced items at a higher price. I can see this happening as things settle down. This has always happened but IMO will get much worse. It's not worth it, the little man will be the loser.

Bethgael

LaintalAy wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Today I had 32 expired items and 2 sales when I logged on. This is getting exhausting.

So, here's some instructions:

1. Login in today.
2. Pick a guild
3. check your current listings.
4. Cancel all that will expire in 7 days or less.
5. Go to your mail.
6. Download the attachments from each listing (use the auto-mail-delete X option)
7. Refill your empty slots.

Do this for all guilds.
Takes 10-15 minutes on PC for each guild.

You won't need to do it again for another week.

Using the auto-mail-delete option sometimes triggers the 'gold goes missing" bug, as in, you collect the gold off a mail, but it doesn't go into your account, it just goes missing if you don't do one of the things that make the server go "oh yeah, that person collected some gold" (I've found that's handing in a quest that rewards gold, then you get both). My guild leader lost over 250k gold in sales because of this bug.

And as someone else who sells niche stuff that takes time to find a buyer (when I had the 30-day limit, they'd often sell at about the 20th-22nd day listed but I made regular sales), it's now more hit and miss and there are a lot more misses now, even at a lower price base. ZOS, maybe you could split the difference and try 21 days for a time?

Jaraal

Bethgael wrote: »

ZOS, maybe you could split the difference and try 21 days for a time?

The difference between this issue and other issues, such as Grim Focus Permaglow, mandatory FPS caps, luminous ink, etcetera, is that ZOS has not offered to listen to feedback on mail and listing timers (beyond the PTS). So you can pretty much guarantee that they aren't interested in reverting these changes based on player feedback.

rothan117

With the way prices have been dropping, if my listings have not sold in 4 to 7 days, they are not going to sell. Ever. Too many sellers chasing too few buyers. There are fundamental changes going on in the game economy and player demographics, reverting the listing timer change will not bring back the old economy. I noticed the slowing of sales and the decline in prices long before the 14 day timer was introduced. It started before the Anniversary event and rapidly accelerated with the Anniversary event and just kept going. The tepid reception of Gold Road, the lack of a new class to motivate people to gear up a new alt and the lack of compelling new gear sets further fueled the change. Prices are still dropping as sellers compete to sell their stuff to a shrinking market. Motifs and furnishing patterns are something that somebody only buys once, you reach market saturation and they stop selling.

Prices will stabilize in one of two ways. More people start playing the game and buy up the excess inventory or less serious sellers drop out of the market and shrink the excess supply. The truly serious sellers I run across are logging in every day and managing their listings, cancelling listings that have become over priced and relisting something else, obtaining new items to sell, etc. It is the core of their game enjoyment. Less serious sellers are those who would rather be doing something else and expect sales with minimal effort. In an economic downturn, either in game or in real life, the less serious ones are the first to go under.

Even putting in that effort, my sales are down a lot. I am in one of those guilds in a prime spot and I work on my listings every single day and I am in the top 10% of the guilds sellers most every week. Yet, the gold value of my sales is down by a good 60% and the same goes for the guild compared to January. January was peak sales, been going down pretty steadily since then, long before the listing timer change.

And for those who make their gold selling high value rare drops, somebody has to feel rich enough to buy them for them to sell. I make my gold mostly by selling commodities, high value mats etc. My income is way down and I no longer have the excess gold to blow on those high value rare motifs, plans etc. So I would guess that the market for those high value rares is going to shrink too and drive those prices down.

Northwold

Just a side point. I've come across a lot of posts here and on reddit complaining that things aren't selling even though below "average" prices. If people are getting their prices from something like TTC, the "average" pricing can be wildly, wildly out because it's using the mean, so if a few clowns have listed, say, water at 1,000,000 gold, then the number is going to be completely off.

Elsonso

Jaraal wrote: »

Bethgael wrote: »

ZOS, maybe you could split the difference and try 21 days for a time?

The difference between this issue and other issues, such as Grim Focus Permaglow, mandatory FPS caps, luminous ink, etcetera, is that ZOS has not offered to listen to feedback on mail and listing timers (beyond the PTS). So you can pretty much guarantee that they aren't interested in reverting these changes based on player feedback.

Yes, we can reasonably assume this change has little to nothing to do with player requests. I see it as something they felt needed to be done.

Northwold wrote: »

Just a side point. I've come across a lot of posts here and on reddit complaining that things aren't selling even though below "average" prices. If people are getting their prices from something like TTC, the "average" pricing can be wildly, wildly out because it's using the mean, so if a few clowns have listed, say, water at 1,000,000 gold, then the number is going to be completely off.

This was a thing I saw on the WoW auction house. Whether they were trying to change prices or for some … other reason, I cannot say. It was necessary to filter out the outliers.

xylena_lazarow

Awesome change, praise Zenithar they finally fixed the inflation, Tempering Alloys now below 10k gold!

sarahthes

Northwold wrote: »

Just a side point. I've come across a lot of posts here and on reddit complaining that things aren't selling even though below "average" prices. If people are getting their prices from something like TTC, the "average" pricing can be wildly, wildly out because it's using the mean, so if a few clowns have listed, say, water at 1,000,000 gold, then the number is going to be completely off.

TTC filters outliers, but when prices are rapidly dropping the average may be out of date.

Anifaas

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

DreamyLu wrote: »

I'm surprised: personally, I reset my listings every day. Some rare times, I let it for one more day, but never more. So for me, the 14 instead of 30 has zero impact.

With the prices changing all the time (especially now!), is there an added value to let items for more than one day? I prefer to review every day and adjust items based on what seems to be more "hot" than the day before.

Yep. This takes me about 15 minutes over 4 guilds. Yes, I wear the additional listing fee, because all the things I sell were free or made by me from free stuff. So, I can't possibly be losing any money.

Most people don't use ATT (although it might actually be AGS or the two working together).

A subtle feature of ATT is that items show pricing in colour ranges (deals).
90% off = gold
60% off = purple
40% off = blue
20% off =green
or something like that anyway

With that in mind, once something you listed is more than the suggested price it goes RED.
So it's easy to scroll through your listing and see those items that are dropping in value as the prices show as red figures.

Also bear in mind that when purchasing there's a 'Deal' filter that allows you to select one, or a range of colours to search on at other traders. I always use this filter to exclude items that are RED, or from my perspective, overpriced.

What I'm saying here is that I never even see your overpriced items*, as I always filter them out.

*based on my personal pricing data from my guild memberships.

But most people are Auction House addicts and can't fathom using anything other than TTC.

Those sound like nice features. But I don't use addons at all, so unless ATT or AGS have a website the way TTC does, I guess I'll have to keep using TTC.

i cant even use TTC website anymore because its so heavily ad-laden and it blocks you doing anything if your running an adblocker

There's 3 ads on the page and they aren't even intrusive. lol

VampiricByNature

On ps5, a lot of our guild traders are very empty.

I am not big into selling- but I'm very into buying. Furnishings/mats/anything tbh. I spend a lot in traders each week.

I'm not sure how eso could encourage people to sell more/fill traders but this change definitely didn't help. It feels like I can almost only go to Mournhold for shopping. Grahtwood/Wayrest are good but still not typically as full as Mournhold.

katanagirl1

Yes the decline started before the shortened trader listings, but I believe that was because people knew it was coming.

All of the other factors listed above did not help either.

My donation-based trader on PS NA is almost always in a capital city, not always Wayrest but sometimes Alinor. I can still sell things but the list price is way lower. I’m not in a so-called mafia guild. Prices of items seem to be dropping now because the demand is probably lower.

I keep hearing about another IP that is being developed, I don’t know the details. We may have paid for the development of Starfield by funding their work. Perhaps that is happening now if they are working on something else. Simple things like the attribute bars still being broken after a fix - it does not signal to the gaming community on ESO that much is being done. Neglecting the community of the game you have that is profitable for another one is not a wise investment, especially if it does not do well.