Why does PvP only appeal to a niche group of players?

spartaxoxo

ToRelax wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It's strange to ask this when the game was originally marketed as a PvP game on launch.I notice constantly that whenever there is a PvP event, PvE players are up in arms. So I wanted to ask why don't you enjoy PvP? What would make you enjoy it?

THe game was never marketed as a PvP game. Yes, Cyrodiil was noted as part of the game, but there is plenty of developer-created material that was out before the game launched showing the PvE because PvE was and is the main focus of ESO.

While not designed as solely PvP, it was absolutely more focused on it at launch. There existed essentially no PvE endgame. Meanwhile there were 10 or so campaigns and most skill lines clearly designed around PvP.
This absolutely was reflected in the marketing, with the early trailers all depicting the player avatars fighting one another in the PvP zone.

I don't get how this is in question at all. It's not like the PvE focused players who complained about lack of content at the time would agree with this.

It wasn't more focused on it at launch. They considered the dungeons endgames PvE and immediately promised more PvE endgame content soon afterwards. The first big update was Craglorn, which added trials.

There was extensive PvE marketing as well.

The reason this game attracted such a large PvE crowd is because this game was actively marketed towards people looking for more PvE Elder Scrolls. Cyrodiil also featured heavy in the marketing.

They marketed towards both. It was never a PvP game nor was it ever a PvE game. It was and will always be both.

Desiato

The main reason ESO PVP isn't more popular is that it's gated behind an ultra-casual PVE game that is very time consuming in itself.

If the greater PVP community (outside of ESO) could download Cyrodiil/IC/Battlegrounds and play it right away, I think it could be quite popular.

The foundation of ZOS was formed by former members of Mythic Entertainment. Mythic was famous for its open world PVP games. Its games were more like Cyrodiil than the rest of ESO. So PVP was intended to be a major part of ESO.

The key thing to keep in mind is that ESO began development BEFORE Skyrim. Its original design was DAOC meets WoW with an Oblivion theme.

Skyrim changed everything because it brought the TES series into the mainstream. It outsold the rest of the series combined by a large margin. Skyrim is one of the top selling games ever.

After a bad launch, ZOS changed the business model and pivoted audiences, refactoring ESO from what was to be the ultimate subscription-based MMO for core gamers into the B2P Online RPG for Skyrim fans we play today. In the process, Cyrodiil was depriortized and neglected because it didn't fit into the new model.

ToRelax

Amottica wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It's strange to ask this when the game was originally marketed as a PvP game on launch.I notice constantly that whenever there is a PvP event, PvE players are up in arms. So I wanted to ask why don't you enjoy PvP? What would make you enjoy it?

THe game was never marketed as a PvP game. Yes, Cyrodiil was noted as part of the game, but there is plenty of developer-created material that was out before the game launched showing the PvE because PvE was and is the main focus of ESO.

While not designed as solely PvP, it was absolutely more focused on it at launch. There existed essentially no PvE endgame. Meanwhile there were 10 or so campaigns and most skill lines clearly designed around PvP.
This absolutely was reflected in the marketing, with the early trailers all depicting the player avatars fighting one another in the PvP zone.

I don't get how this is in question at all. It's not like the PvE focused players who complained about lack of content at the time would agree with this.

More than 90% of the game launched was PVE. The only zone that was PvP required much less work to make happen because it lacked well-developed stories and dungeons. Two PvE updates were getting the finishing touches when the game launched, and those two updates were not really needed on the first day since they contained the content that required being at vet levels. That pretty much paints a clear picture that the game was designed mostly for PvE.

In fact, Zenimax made a "strong-willed decision" extremely early in the development of the game to keep PvE zones strictly and limit PvP to Cyrodiil. That decision alone made the game mostly PvE-focused.

I don't know how you are measuring the amount of PvE vs. PvP present at launch. If you go by quests, for example, sure, but that's kind of a given. If you go by size of the zones, Cyrodiil is far larger than any of the alliance's zones combined.

I can't know for sure, but I suspect PvE content was churned out after launch A ) because ESO pivoted more towards PvE with it's late development "skyrimization" and B ) because AvA would have been very difficult to implement piece-meal like PvE content. In any case, "There is little PvE content but they're working on it!" doesn't exactly translate into "PvE is the main focus" to me. Neither does not having PvP in leveling zones while there is AvA.

I don't see a point in arguing further. To me, all that's been said paints an extremely clear picture.

Hapexamendios

My only purpose for Cyrodiil is to go in to get tier one rewards for transmutes when I need them. I repair castle wall to do this. I have found the area chat to be fairly toxic no matter what alliance I'm on. If this is how people treat they're own allies, I want no part of it. Being an older gamer with slower reaction times wouldn't do me any favors if I wanted to join the fray.

TaSheen

Hapexamendios wrote: »

My only purpose for Cyrodiil is to go in to get tier one rewards for transmutes when I need them. I repair castle wall to do this. I have found the area chat to be fairly toxic no matter what alliance I'm on. If this is how people treat they're own allies, I want no part of it. Being an older gamer with slower reaction times wouldn't do me any favors if I wanted to join the fray.

I do repair as well for endeavors - but what I find more often than not is that even a keep on the edge with red or yellow (because I'm blue PERIOD) has been repaired fully. And while that may not be true in GH, it is true in RW - I've actually landed in GH (if DC isn't full) and there is NO option in any blue keep to repair any wall or door. Of course, well over 3/4 of the time, I can't log into GH....

So that leaves (for endeavors, which is absolutely ALL I'm interested in) loading into a < 50 character and hoping I can find a door or wall there. Not always optimal....

Minyassa

FelisCatus wrote: »

It's strange to ask this when the game was originally marketed as a PvP game on launch.I notice constantly that whenever there is a PvP event, PvE players are up in arms. So I wanted to ask why don't you enjoy PvP? What would make you enjoy it?

I don't care if there are PvP events, but I won't play it anymore. It's the culture. I've gotten hate whispers from complete strangers with whom I've never spoken, for, get this, LOSING too fast. Like they literally took the time out of their day to write me a nasty note because they were able to beat me easily. I'm not down with that. I absolutely understand getting angry at someone if they cheat, if they have a cheese build, whatever else, but getting furious with someone for being new and learning to play?

There are other things, too. I joined a group of people to go help them take keeps, and the defenders of the keep fought fairly and valiantly; my group's leader proceeded to teabag them after they were defeated even though they had not contacted us in any way or done anything inappropriate. I don't want to play with people who are poor sports if they lose, but it's even worse to play with people who are poor sports if they win. It ruins a fun time to be around people who treat other people like garbage.

I don't know what it is about video game PvP that brings this stuff out in people. I remember playing in person ball games, board games, RPGs, and random games of pool with strangers of all types in my neighborhood, in school, in shops, and in bars, and people were all nice and had fun and could be very competitive while still treating each other with respect. That's the kind of PvP I wish I could find online. But ESO PvP doesn't have it.

Amottica

ToRelax wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It's strange to ask this when the game was originally marketed as a PvP game on launch.I notice constantly that whenever there is a PvP event, PvE players are up in arms. So I wanted to ask why don't you enjoy PvP? What would make you enjoy it?

THe game was never marketed as a PvP game. Yes, Cyrodiil was noted as part of the game, but there is plenty of developer-created material that was out before the game launched showing the PvE because PvE was and is the main focus of ESO.

While not designed as solely PvP, it was absolutely more focused on it at launch. There existed essentially no PvE endgame. Meanwhile there were 10 or so campaigns and most skill lines clearly designed around PvP.
This absolutely was reflected in the marketing, with the early trailers all depicting the player avatars fighting one another in the PvP zone.

I don't get how this is in question at all. It's not like the PvE focused players who complained about lack of content at the time would agree with this.

More than 90% of the game launched was PVE. The only zone that was PvP required much less work to make happen because it lacked well-developed stories and dungeons. Two PvE updates were getting the finishing touches when the game launched, and those two updates were not really needed on the first day since they contained the content that required being at vet levels. That pretty much paints a clear picture that the game was designed mostly for PvE.

In fact, Zenimax made a "strong-willed decision" extremely early in the development of the game to keep PvE zones strictly and limit PvP to Cyrodiil. That decision alone made the game mostly PvE-focused.

I don't know how you are measuring the amount of PvE vs. PvP present at launch. If you go by quests, for example, sure, but that's kind of a given. If you go by size of the zones, Cyrodiil is far larger than any of the alliance's zones combined.

I can't know for sure, but I suspect PvE content was churned out after launch A ) because ESO pivoted more towards PvE with it's late development "skyrimization" and B ) because AvA would have been very difficult to implement piece-meal like PvE content. In any case, "There is little PvE content but they're working on it!" doesn't exactly translate into "PvE is the main focus" to me. Neither does not having PvP in leveling zones while there is AvA.

I don't see a point in arguing further. To me, all that's been said paints an extremely clear picture.

The sheer amount of work that went into those alliance zones compared to Cyrodiil's simplistic design demonstrates the commitment made to PvE vs. PvP. So yes, not much point in arguing that.

Tommy_The_Gun

I would imagine that less & less people enjoy PvP as ZOS clearly shows more & more that they are kinda balancing PvP pretty much only for Ball Groups. I mean if it was not the case, then we would have seen at least 1 or 2 direct "target nerf" for PvP group enviroment over last 10 years... but it did not happened. Idk, maybe ZOS somehow thinks of Ball Groups as their "PvP target audience" or something. Hard to say.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

ESO has the same problem as another game I play/played, and like ESO, that game is an online game that stems from a distinctly singleplayer franchise: Elite Dangerous. Even more interestingly, is the fact that there's only six months between the two. They both mark their tenth anniversary this year.

And this is why I keep making comparisons. Setting aside, the two are in rather similar situations in some respects, and none moreso than the matter of PvP.

PvP in Elite, like ESO, is wildly unpopular with most players. Meanwhile, PvP players don't really kick up much of a fuss about doing PvE activities. Just like ESO, it is in fact essential if you want a top-spec PvP ship.

It is also true that generally speaking, PvP players in Elite, like ESO, are very well-rounded. Perhaps not the absolute best in PvE compared to those who focus it, but they are certainly near enough. All the while also being able to hold their own in PvP: Something many PvE players cannot say. The same is around about true for ESO players.

So, why do some people dislike PvP so much?

Few thoughts.

I'll echo a post from a few days ago: Power fantasy. People rarely go into a game thinking they'll suck, or more politely, encounter players with far more skill. The end result there is the same either way. And this leaves a sour taste in many mouths. People by and large do not play video games for the experience of losing. So when they do so, they quit from the activity they do not win.

Be it playing as an epic adventurer in Tamriel, or the next Han Solo-esque hotshot space cowboy of Elite, a better player coming along and proving you are small fry, is only going to ruin that. So people avoid it. Which is fair.

It takes a certain mindset to overcome this. Personal IRL analogy that likely explains why I enjoy PvP, even if I am not very good at it: IRL I am a mountain biker. A novice, granted, but I do take it seriously. And whilst I am not so hot at it, I also do not give up easily on these things. I'm naturally competitive, mostly against myself. This is why I enjoy it. Precisely because I am not very good at it. I enjoy improving my skills. Not everyone does.

When it comes to video games, many people expect a certain amount of success by default, else the game could be seen as a waste of time, which is logical thinking. I understand and respect this, but it also makes that individual largely incompatible with PvP, where failure is the only inherent thing you should expect. And there is nothing wrong with simply not taking part in PvP activity if you do not like this truth. Given PvP gear can all be sold on guild traders, that really is true.

Another factor is obvious: Heritage. Both games come from singleplayer franchises. Until ESO, the only PvP that TES ever had was a silly little mode in Battlespire. Needless to say, it is a franchise that mostly attracts people interested in story-driven questing and adventure. The same is true for Elite. Prior to Elite Dangerous, all games in the franchise were exclusively offline-only. And damn, were they good. I still play the original game via an emulator. But nothing about it says "I will like PvP because I like this"

If you come into a game from singleplayer entries, it stands to reason you still only want PvE content.

With this being said: If part of the game is designed in the first place for PvP, such as Cyrodiil, you have absolutely no business complaining about that part of the game being PvP. That is on the individual to inform themselves about, and they do need to appreciate that other people are playing that do enjoy that content.

I'll end by answering OP's last question of how you can "make" people enjoy it.

That's the problem. If you are having to "make" someone enjoy it, it means they were never going to do so in the first place, and nothing will change that. I get that the game was originally marketed with PvP being the endgame, but times have changed and it's become very apparent that this community at large wants it to be PvE-focused. Nevermind, I'll refrain from arguments on that one.

At the same time, there are some PvE players who really could stand to get over the fact that some parts of the game are not for them, unless they are willing to try something new.

Unfortunately for PvP players, myself included, the majority (rightfully) can expect to get the most catered to. Then again, I don't see many PvP players demanding PvP be extended elsewhere. We just want what we have to run better than it does.

Bring on the next Whitestrake's.

BXR_Lonestar

Minnesinger wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It's strange to ask this when the game was originally marketed as a PvP game on launch.I notice constantly that whenever there is a PvP event, PvE players are up in arms. So I wanted to ask why don't you enjoy PvP? What would make you enjoy it?

Its because PVE players are mostly bad at PVP, and so they die. A LOT. Doing the quests they're trying to do to get the event done. There is nothing appealing about that.

It's not necessarily their fault. PVE builds emphasize sustained damage output, whereas PVP builds emphasize survivability, sustain, and short window burst damage so PVE characters are just not going to be successful in a PVP environment to begin with. So the event is kind of stacked against them if they don't want to be there.

Why they insist on going into PVP to do the event at all when they don't like the gameplay though is beyond me. If they had a Tales of Tribute event, that is one where I'd say "no thank you" to very quickly and wouldn't even bother participating.

Being bad is something that most players have experienced but to some extend they have been developing those necessary skills to get better. If I am trying to do trials I am not bringing some obsolent build and die at every occassion. Or at least I know better not do that repeatedly. Some pve players are getting good at pvp very fast. Then there are those who want to demostrate their distaste for pvp by not even trying. Oh lala thus the bad experience and the constant posts about how they hate pvp.

I don't know that there is much cross-over in skills from PVE to PVP to be perfectly fair. In PVE, your ultimate goal is to try to keep the threat in one place, allow the DPS to simply "parse" the encounter, and allow the healers to keep everyone upright and buffed up. I know it doesn't always work out that way, but in an "ideal" PVE encounter, that is how you would want things to play out. In PVP, you are constantly moving, looking for the right time to strike, allowing your opponent to press to spend resources, and then you push your counter at the right time, etc. It takes a much more cerebral approach and you need to be much more reactive to the situation. I don't know that there are many encounters in PVE that force you to play like that, which is why they ultimately attract different player bases. PVE is largely choreographed and scripted, whereas PVP has many more dynamic encounters.

GooGa592

Amottica wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It's strange to ask this when the game was originally marketed as a PvP game on launch.I notice constantly that whenever there is a PvP event, PvE players are up in arms. So I wanted to ask why don't you enjoy PvP? What would make you enjoy it?

THe game was never marketed as a PvP game. Yes, Cyrodiil was noted as part of the game, but there is plenty of developer-created material that was out before the game launched showing the PvE because PvE was and is the main focus of ESO.

I guess people see and recall what they are more focused on.

I enjoy PvP in this game only because of the people I run with. There are games that do a better job of the AvA and BG types of PvP.

Except ESO absolutely was advertised as PvP being end game content. The entire back of the box the original game came in is promoting Cyrodiil PvP and the three banners war. PvP was one of the main selling points for the game during release.

The "I hate PvP" crowd has been trying to rewrite history on this topic for years now.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

Desiato

GooGa592 wrote: »

Except ESO absolutely was advertised as PvP being end game content. The entire back of the box the original game came in is promoting Cyrodiil PvP and the three banners war. PvP was one of the main selling points for the game during release.

The "I hate PvP" crowd has been trying to rewrite history on this topic for years now.

It's interesting to consider that when ESO was launched, the state one's home campaign in Cyrodiil was extremely important for endgame PVE trials, but the state of PVE had no impact on Cyrodiil.

It should also be noted that Cyrodiil was originally designed so that PVP focused players could progress entirely within Cyrodiil and end of campaign rewards used to include trial and vdsa gear.

StihlReign

Desiato wrote: »

It should also be noted that Cyrodiil was originally designed so that PVP focused players could progress entirely within Cyrodiil

lol

You couldn't enter Cyrodiil until you reached level 10.

spartaxoxo

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It's strange to ask this when the game was originally marketed as a PvP game on launch.I notice constantly that whenever there is a PvP event, PvE players are up in arms. So I wanted to ask why don't you enjoy PvP? What would make you enjoy it?

THe game was never marketed as a PvP game. Yes, Cyrodiil was noted as part of the game, but there is plenty of developer-created material that was out before the game launched showing the PvE because PvE was and is the main focus of ESO.

I guess people see and recall what they are more focused on.

I enjoy PvP in this game only because of the people I run with. There are games that do a better job of the AvA and BG types of PvP.

Except ESO absolutely was advertised as PvP being end game content. The entire back of the box the original game came in is promoting Cyrodiil PvP and the three banners war. PvP was one of the main selling points for the game during release.

The "I hate PvP" crowd has been trying to rewrite history on this topic for years now.

The Three Banners War is the subject of each alliances zone's overarching stories and Cyrodiil.

https://us.v-cdn.net/cdn-cgi/image/fit=scale-down,width=1200/https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/editor/st/nozr73hrclqt.png

Here is the back of the box. First and largest header can be viewed as both PvE or PvP. Second message is play the way you want. Third message is about PvP. Fourth message is about PvE.

Vrienda

It's inaccessible and the skill gap is too big and blatant. I don't much like being oneshot by someone who knows what sets and what abilities combine in this particular patch to do that particular thing.

A few years ago I made a tanky as hell build for Whitestrake's Mayham. The next time it was on that build was worthless. It took a lot for me to research and get that build together, I'm not doing it again. Even when I was unkillable I wasn't having fun because that'd just make fights drag on for 10-20 minutes and they'd be so insistent they'd never leave me alone until I let them kill me.

The more recent pvp event was much better as you can get style pages from the boxes and just the damn IC bosses which is a MASSIVE improvement. So I went back to ignoring pvp entirely. I just park an fresh alt in low level cyrodiil and get my boxes and tickets that way.

I play ESO for solo questing, lore and fashion with a bit of tales of tribute on the side when I'm feeling it. PvP is antithetical to how I play the game.

BlueRaven

Desiato wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Except ESO absolutely was advertised as PvP being end game content. The entire back of the box the original game came in is promoting Cyrodiil PvP and the three banners war. PvP was one of the main selling points for the game during release.

The "I hate PvP" crowd has been trying to rewrite history on this topic for years now.

It's interesting to consider that when ESO was launched, the state one's home campaign in Cyrodiil was extremely important for endgame PVE trials, but the state of PVE had no impact on Cyrodiil.

It should also be noted that Cyrodiil was originally designed so that PVP focused players could progress entirely within Cyrodiil and end of campaign rewards used to include trial and vdsa gear.

When ESO was launched, it launched with whatever they had finished at the time. People keep thinking that the game was “finished” when it was released, it was not. Listen to the Amsterdam chats, the game was going to be a wow clone in an ES wrapper, and then they had a sudden change in philosophy after the release of Skyrim. (Yes, Skyrim that is how long it takes to design things in games.) But they could not fully implement that change with the release window.

So they advertised game with what they had done. Not with what they still wanted to do.

They could not have pve effect PvP, why? Because they were already planning for the pve zones to be done by people of any faction or level. So what mechanism could they possibly put in?
Suddenly AD characters, questing in Glenumbra could make a change in Cyrodiil? What faction would get the benefit?

Lastly, let’s pretend for a second it WAS intended to be a PvP focused game. Well then they had to completely redesign the game to stay afloat. Is that the argument you really want to be making here? That PvP is non profitable?

StihlReign

It was marketed and understood to be a PvP game supported by PvE. The two were designed and understood to be inextricably linked.

Desiato

StihlReign wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

It should also be noted that Cyrodiil was originally designed so that PVP focused players could progress entirely within Cyrodiil

You couldn't enter Cyrodiil until you reached level 10.

That's a tiny portion of the game -- basically the tutorial levels. At some point I may see if I can find the interviews for you if they still exist, but they may not be, or may not be indexed by google anymore.

I recall you've challenged this view before. I don't see why you would doubt me when there is abundant evidence for this in the form of quest hubs, essential services, resource nodes, skyshards, etc...

There was a very vocal portion of the early playerbase who expressed this was important to them. Mainly DAOC and Warhammer players who were interested in ESO because of Cyrodiil and its connection to Mythic Entertainment.

spartaxoxo

StihlReign wrote: »

It was marketed and understood to be a PvP game supported by PvE. The two were designed and understood to be inextricably linked.

They literally said we could play how we wanted. I never viewed it as inextricably linked. It was PvP if you want or don't. Play with others or by yourself. Just do whatever you want to do.

Desiato

BlueRaven wrote: »

Lastly, let’s pretend for a second it WAS intended to be a PvP focused game. Well then they had to completely redesign the game to stay afloat. Is that the argument you really want to be making here? That PvP is non profitable?

Like Matt Firor expressed recently, Skyrim changed everything. As one of the top selling games of all time, Skyrim had a massive PVE audience hungry for more TES content and no interest in PVP.

ESO was a high budget game financed by investors who expected a return. It was an ambitious title intending to take a bite out of WoW, even before Skyrim.

Meanwhile, Cyrodiil was mired in significant technical challenges.

So it's not surprising they took the path they did.

I don't think PVP was intended to be the end game for all players, but it was certainly supposed to be a major component of the game and I recall a strong view expressed at the time that PVE and PVP were considered to be equally important.

olsborg

FelisCatus wrote: »

It's strange to ask this when the game was originally marketed as a PvP game on launch.I notice constantly that whenever there is a PvP event, PvE players are up in arms. So I wanted to ask why don't you enjoy PvP? What would make you enjoy it?

PvP in these days pretty much requires you to be a vampire due to Undeath passive, and arterial burst is great in 1v1s. Not everyone enjoys that.

spartaxoxo

Desiato wrote: »

I don't think PVP was intended to be the end game for all players, but it was certainly supposed to be a major component of the game and I recall a strong view expressed at the time that PVE and PVP were considered to be equally important.

This is my recollection as well. I don't think the focus shifted away from PvP until they made Morrowind base game, personally. Prior to that PvP and PvE were meant to be equally important.

StihlReign

Desiato wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

It should also be noted that Cyrodiil was originally designed so that PVP focused players could progress entirely within Cyrodiil

You couldn't enter Cyrodiil until you reached level 10.

That's a tiny portion of the game -- basically the tutorial levels.

lol

So not ENTIRELY.

10 levels of 50, wasn't tiny.
Take your time...do all the research you need.

StihlReign

spartaxoxo wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

It was marketed and understood to be a PvP game supported by PvE. The two were designed and understood to be inextricably linked.

They literally said we could play how we wanted.

You couldn't. The game was very linear.

spartaxoxo

StihlReign wrote: »

You couldn't. The game was very linear.

I don't think they meant that in terms of the linear storyline. Moreso you could group or play solo. You could PvE or PvP. You had freedom to pick skills. Etc.

Desiato

StihlReign wrote: »

So not ENTIRELY.

No, not literally entirely, but practically entirely.

10 levels of 50, wasn't tiny.

In this case, it was because level progress was not linear. The first 10 levels flew by then as they do now. The starter zones were very small, easy to navigate and had a relatively high density of short quests. The first 10 levels were basically a tutorial.

Also consider that the game had approximately 10 VR levels that followed level 50 when the game launched, and vet levels took much longer to progress than regular levels.

StihlReign

Desiato wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

So not ENTIRELY.

No, not literally entirely, but practically entirely.

10 levels of 50, wasn't tiny.

In this case, it was because level progress was not linear. The first 10 levels flew by then as they do now. The starter zones were very small, easy to navigate and had a relatively high density of short quests. The first 10 levels were basically a tutorial.

Also consider that the game had approximately 10 VR levels that followed level 50 when the game launched, and vet levels took much longer to progress than regular levels.

lol
No they didn't. We leveled and hit VR10 so quickly, in Craglorn, the devs had to make adjustments to the experience gains.

EDIT: Commas matter

Desiato

StihlReign wrote: »

No they didn't. We leveled and hit VR10 so quickly in Craglorn, the devs had to make adjustments to the experience gains.

Craglorn wasn't a launch zone. The entire reason players were prone to grind VR levels there is because progress was so slow. And as you note, this ultimately prompted adjustments.

The fact remains the VR experience curve was much higher than regular levels and levels 1-10 were completed rapidly compared to others.

In any case, I'm not going to continue derailing this thread with this back and forth tangent that's largely irrelevant.

Amottica

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It's strange to ask this when the game was originally marketed as a PvP game on launch.I notice constantly that whenever there is a PvP event, PvE players are up in arms. So I wanted to ask why don't you enjoy PvP? What would make you enjoy it?

THe game was never marketed as a PvP game. Yes, Cyrodiil was noted as part of the game, but there is plenty of developer-created material that was out before the game launched showing the PvE because PvE was and is the main focus of ESO.

I guess people see and recall what they are more focused on.

I enjoy PvP in this game only because of the people I run with. There are games that do a better job of the AvA and BG types of PvP.

Except ESO absolutely was advertised as PvP being end game content. The entire back of the box the original game came in is promoting Cyrodiil PvP and the three banners war. PvP was one of the main selling points for the game during release.

The "I hate PvP" crowd has been trying to rewrite history on this topic for years now.

Please point out where I said PvP was not intended to be available to a player at the end game. I never suggested that was the case or even thought of by the developers.

Rewriting history? Interesting, since below is the most significant trailer released before the game launched. It is part of a story Zenimax continued with other releases. While it shows some siege, it is not Cyrodiil PvP. They are not a keep, though I think that is IC in the background. The enemy is the PvE enemy in the base game's main story, which is very much the central focus.

The second video is by the developers themselves and is one of many depicting gameplay. This one mentions Cyrodiil at about 6:44 into the video as one of the options available once we hit the end game. It mentions PvP again starting at 7:22 and ending at 8:33. This was their overview of the game video, and it spends just over a minute in a 9.5-minute stream talking about PvP.

Other videos they made talked more specifically about different areas of the game, but this gives a clear picture of the focus the developers had when creating this game. So yeah, it would be incorrect to characterize my comments as "rewriting history". Especially when I have provided facts to support my comments. I hereby rest my solid case with the provided proof.

https://youtu.be/-djM46Qpw7I

https://youtu.be/YlEipFtHw7o

Cheers