Why does PvP only appeal to a niche group of players?

_adhyffbjjjf12 · May 17

SilverBride wrote: »

PvP is no more of a niche than housing, or end game, or roleplaying, or questing, or crafting. We like what we like and that is what we participate in.

We don't need to get people to enjoy PvP, or anything for that matter. We are free to enjoy what we want.

who said that? The point is PVP has issues that you don't see in PVE in ESO (as its built on an engine that was not designed for high concurrency) which is making it unattractive for people who want to try PVP.

furiouslog · May 17

ProudMary wrote: »

I think it's because so many PvE players like ESO for the super easy, casual questing experience. Whereas PvP is highly competitive. You don't have to try hard or make a build to be decent at PvE. You can just mindlessly hack through everything except vet trials and vet dlc dungeons in PvE. In PvP you have to have everything set up perfectly or you just get rolled over and over again. PvP is competitive. PvE is casual and effortless.

Yeah, HM trifectas are super EZ. They basically achieve themselves.

SilverBride · May 17

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

PvP is no more of a niche than housing, or end game, or roleplaying, or questing, or crafting. We like what we like and that is what we participate in.

We don't need to get people to enjoy PvP, or anything for that matter. We are free to enjoy what we want.

who said that? The point is PVP has issues that you don't see in PVE in ESO (as its built on an engine that was not designed for high concurrency) which is making it unattractive for people who want to try PVP.

The OP asked why we don't enjoy PvP and what would make us enjoy it. I don't feel that I need to be made to enjoy it because it's just not my thing.

I do an occasional battleground but have no interest in Cyrodiil, nor do I care to.

furiouslog · May 17

SilverBride wrote: »

We don't need to get people to enjoy PvP, or anything for that matter. We are free to enjoy what we want.

Is anyone actually suggesting anything to the alternative? What an odd thing to say.

SilverBride wrote: »

The OP asked why we don't enjoy PvP and what would make us enjoy it. I don't feel that I need to be made to enjoy it because it's just not my thing.

I do an occasional battleground but have no interest in Cyrodiil, nor do I care to.

So the OP asked another question to which you have not shared your answer: why don't you enjoy PVP? The follow up is "what would it take", and you have turned that into "what do we need to do to change you," which I don't believe was the intent. I don't think the OP is asking to start an argument about your personal preferences - I think they legitimately want to understand your POV.

Dojohoda · May 17

Speaking of Cyrodiil PVP, I can't speak for others but, I like it because we are fighting other players. It's unscripted chaos. Unfortunately, fewer players are allowed into Cyrodiil so it is less chaotic and less fun. That said, it continues to be the part of ESO that I like the most. If it was not for Cyrodiil, I would have stopped logging in a long time ago. We need more people to be allowed into Cyrodiil.

SilverBride · May 17

furiouslog wrote: »

So the OP asked another question to which you have not shared your answer: why don't you enjoy PVP?

For the same reason I don't like broccoli. I just don't enjoy it.

furiouslog wrote: »

The follow up is "what would it take", and you have turned that into "what do we need to do to change you," which I don't believe was the intent. I don't think the OP is asking to start an argument about your personal preferences - I think they legitimately want to understand your POV.

Nothing would make me enjoy something I just plain don't enjoy. Why would it be assumed that I am looking to find ways to enjoy it?

_adhyffbjjjf12 · May 17

SilverBride wrote: »

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

PvP is no more of a niche than housing, or end game, or roleplaying, or questing, or crafting. We like what we like and that is what we participate in.

We don't need to get people to enjoy PvP, or anything for that matter. We are free to enjoy what we want.

who said that? The point is PVP has issues that you don't see in PVE in ESO (as its built on an engine that was not designed for high concurrency) which is making it unattractive for people who want to try PVP.

The OP asked why we don't enjoy PvP and what would make us enjoy it. I don't feel that I need to be made to enjoy it because it's just not my thing.

I do an occasional battleground but have no interest in Cyrodiil, nor do I care to.

Very true. The question is only relevant to players who would like to pvp or at least try pvp but feel compelled not to because of reasons xyz.

DoofusMax · May 17

I just don't get any particular kick out of killing other players. Yes, it's all ones and zeroes and there's no practical difference between killing the ones and zeroes controlled by the game and those controlled by other players, but it's not something that gives me any enjoyment. Now that I think about it, I don't have Isobel's memento because I don't duel and that's the one item I haven't checked off on her to-do list (I don't even duel when it's an endeavor).

To address the full context of the question, though, I don't get at all miffed when there is a PvP event. I'll use it as an excuse to go do some of the PvE stuff in Cyrodiil like the settlement quests or delves or whatever, but I generally leave Cyrodiil and IC to the PvP'ers. They enjoy it, so I stay out of their way and let them have fun.

furiouslog · May 17

SilverBride wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

So the OP asked another question to which you have not shared your answer: why don't you enjoy PVP?

For the same reason I don't like broccoli. I just don't enjoy it.

furiouslog wrote: »

The follow up is "what would it take", and you have turned that into "what do we need to do to change you," which I don't believe was the intent. I don't think the OP is asking to start an argument about your personal preferences - I think they legitimately want to understand your POV.

Nothing would make me enjoy something I just plain don't enjoy. Why would it be assumed that I am looking to find ways to enjoy it?

Well,m you are not the person who this thread is for then, I guess. Why would anyone even come in to say something so thoroughly unhelpful?

Q: Why don''t you like this?
A: I just don't.

Q: What could change that?
A: Nothing.

Why did you even bother sharing that? Wait, don't tell me, the answer is "because".

The amount of soul-crushingly aggressive attempts to shut down ideation on this forum is truly depressing.

DrNukenstein · May 17

Probably all the unprovoked hostile behavior from a large portion of the community, and the fact that somehow no one playing this game ever forgets anything.

Combine the two, and it's a community that really can't be recommended for anyone. It really is a salt factory.

Necrotech_Master · May 17

i dont mind pvp, but i do it for fun, not to be competitive, as long as im making some AP i dont care if im dying a lot

i have varying opinions depending on form of pvp

cyro: this is the pvp i enjoy the most, easy to jump into the fray and join battles, the biggest pain points i have on this is either lack of action on a map (not a lot of big fights going on, or maybe just one, only partly a population issue), and imbalanced populations (the best fights are when all factions are at least equal bars, if 1 is at 3 bars and the other 2 are 1 or 2 bars, its just not fun, you will get overwhelmed with numbers, and that part is when pvp is not fun, if your in a fight you know you cant win)

IC: i enjoy IC for mostly the pve parts, but it can be fun for pvp too, the gamble with tel var gives it a little more ooomph than cyro in my opinion, though in most times outside of an even IC is not really populated much to get those big fights going

BGs: these are probably my least favorite, mostly because theres little gameplay with the game mode (half the players resort to playing as a DM), the fact that many modes can be "cheesed" in some fashion (chaosball, relics), the fact that theres virtually no real MMR system (boils down to # of games played since it only counts your medal score, which you get for doing anything besides sitting around in the spawn the whole time)

i like playing in no-cp environments, but i hate no-proc environments because i feel thats extremely boring

i do find the fact that many people are extremely hard to kill also kind of annoying, it feels like 70% of the population is built like tanks, but only 5-10% of that amount is actual tanks

StihlReign · May 17

Interesting questions and responses, awesome post OP.

The one thing the devs can do is dedicate resources that lead to an increase in population. A large one. PvP needs much more diversity and the quickest way to do this is increase the population. The map can hold quite a few more fighters and a lot more fights, which will open up a ton more roles and increase build diversity, which will increase specializations and lead to a much wider range of skill levels (new, casual and lower level players).

Varana · May 17

ProudMary wrote: »

PvE is casual and effortless.

This attitude.

ghastley · May 17

Some people enjoy playing the game, and others only enjoy winning, and some only enjoy beating someone else. I avoid the last category.

VouxeTheMinotaur · May 17

Varana wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

PvE is casual and effortless.

This attitude.

Agreeing with Varana here cause honestly, yeah lol

Alinhbo_Tyaka · May 17

furiouslog wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

So the OP asked another question to which you have not shared your answer: why don't you enjoy PVP?

For the same reason I don't like broccoli. I just don't enjoy it.

furiouslog wrote: »

The follow up is "what would it take", and you have turned that into "what do we need to do to change you," which I don't believe was the intent. I don't think the OP is asking to start an argument about your personal preferences - I think they legitimately want to understand your POV.

Nothing would make me enjoy something I just plain don't enjoy. Why would it be assumed that I am looking to find ways to enjoy it?

Well,m you are not the person who this thread is for then, I guess. Why would anyone even come in to say something so thoroughly unhelpful?

Q: Why don''t you like this?
A: I just don't.

Q: What could change that?
A: Nothing.

Why did you even bother sharing that? Wait, don't tell me, the answer is "because".

The amount of soul-crushingly aggressive attempts to shut down ideation on this forum is truly depressing.

I think this is a legitimate answer. There is this idea in the PvP community of many games that if we can just find the secret sauce PvE players will flock to PvP. The reality is there is nothing that can be done to make PvP appealing to people who do not like the style of game play.

Keep in mind most players who don't like PvP will have tried it at some point.The reasons people do not like PvP are as varied as the player base is diverse. Some will tell you as they've gotten older they don't feel like doing it anymore, some will tell you they just don't like it, others will say they aren't the competitive type, some don't like the idea of simulated combat due to there being real people behind the game character, etc. I also think for MMOs like ESO, WoW or Final Fantasy 14 PvP tends to be a sub-game to allow players to dabble with PvP with the realization that really hardcore PvP players tend to play PvP only games. In the end I don't think there is anything that can be done to entice more people to try PvP. It really is as simple as you either like it or you don't and nothing will change a player's feelings on the subject.

Orbital78 · May 17

IMO MMO PvP is hard to balance, caters to a younger demographic more (all ages do it I know), and tends to bring negatives out in others. If they enjoy it, they will do it. I personally only did large amounts of PvP in my younger years, and only enjoy the PvE aspects of the game. I do venture to engage for events, but it is typically the path of least resistance (getting level 1) or defending/repairing if anyone is actually attacking EP while I am on. I don't feel like investing the time to create extra builds just to do something I don't enjoy that much.

SilverBride · May 17

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

It really is as simple as you either like it or you don't and nothing will change a player's feelings on the subject.

Exactly.

DigiAngel · May 17

PvP is a conundrum really. As someone who does actually do PvP, here goes:

Battlegrounds:

Can't choose which type
Sometimes only 3 to a team
Long respawn times
No-cp only
Character bound stylesheets/motifs

Imperial City:

Gankfest, as we all know
Horrible for solo, non-gank players
Lose half your reward on death

Cyro:

Immortal Ball groups
Not very significant rewards
Alliance points currency not super useful after getting PvP gear

That should answer a lot of reasons...and I know I missed some. There are glimmers of fun sometimes in IC and Cyro if you happen to be in a group or run with a mob. But those moments, are few-ish. The bulk of PvP is just for the "fun" of the game itself...but the problem is, it's not all that fun most of the time.

I spent 45 minutes one time defending a scroll group on top of a bridge....was a big stalemate really. Rewards? Nothing. Fun...eh. Big waste of time? Absolutely.

furiouslog · May 17

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

So the OP asked another question to which you have not shared your answer: why don't you enjoy PVP?

For the same reason I don't like broccoli. I just don't enjoy it.

furiouslog wrote: »

The follow up is "what would it take", and you have turned that into "what do we need to do to change you," which I don't believe was the intent. I don't think the OP is asking to start an argument about your personal preferences - I think they legitimately want to understand your POV.

Nothing would make me enjoy something I just plain don't enjoy. Why would it be assumed that I am looking to find ways to enjoy it?

Well,m you are not the person who this thread is for then, I guess. Why would anyone even come in to say something so thoroughly unhelpful?

Q: Why don''t you like this?
A: I just don't.

Q: What could change that?
A: Nothing.

Why did you even bother sharing that? Wait, don't tell me, the answer is "because".

The amount of soul-crushingly aggressive attempts to shut down ideation on this forum is truly depressing.

I think this is a legitimate answer. There is this idea in the PvP community of many games that if we can just find the secret sauce PvE players will flock to PvP. The reality is there is nothing that can be done to make PvP appealing to people who do not like the style of game play.

Keep in mind most players who don't like PvP will have tried it at some point.The reasons people do not like PvP are as varied as the player base is diverse. Some will tell you as they've gotten older they don't feel like doing it anymore, some will tell you they just don't like it, others will say they aren't the competitive type, some don't like the idea of simulated combat due to there being real people behind the game character, etc. I also think for MMOs like ESO, WoW or Final Fantasy 14 PvP tends to be a sub-game to allow players to dabble with PvP with the realization that really hardcore PvP players tend to play PvP only games. In the end I don't think there is anything that can be done to entice more people to try PvP. It really is as simple as you either like it or you don't and nothing will change a player's feelings on the subject.

I disagree - I think that anyone who has spent any time at all on self reflection understands and can share the specifics of their motivations. If they don't want to, why even participate in the conversation? It literally offers nothing, and it shuts down any discussion, which is what I understood the point of a forum to be.

SilverBride · May 17

furiouslog wrote: »

I disagree - I think that anyone who has spent any time at all on self reflection understands and can share the specifics of their motivations. If they don't want to, why even participate in the conversation? It literally offers nothing, and it shuts down any discussion, which is what I understood the point of a forum to be.

I never spent any time self reflecting on why I don't enjoy PvP in this game. There are not motivations other than I have tried it and I didn't enjoy it. And there is nothing that can be done that will make me enjoy something I don't.

Those clearly answer the OP's questions.

Shara_Wynn · May 17

I dislike PVP fundamentally because I am not very good at it. I don't like not being good at something perhaps because I am a bit of a perfectionist so I find it stressful to fail at things.

I have a stressful job so my capacity to suck up frustration and any further stress is minimal after I clock off (which tbh I never really do in my line of work).

So I guess I just want something that is super chill at the end of the day.

I guess in the end, it is really difficult to tell someone who likes something, that you do not and to explain to them, why you do not. Sometimes, even after all the explanations, they will still just not "get" it. I personally don't "get" why people like PVP. Why they would put themselves into a situation that I find toxic, stressful, frustrating and just not very fun. But I can imagine that it is probably because they are good at it, and they haven't reached their daily capacity for challenge, so they have energy left in the tank as it were.

Were I younger or better at PVP and in a less challenging job, and not such a perfectionist, who doesn't mind conflict, and doesn't mind failure, then maybe I would like PVP. But I would have to be a whole other person to be that way and I am me. And I don't really know how else to articulate why I don't like PVP.

valenwood_vegan · May 17

Just for whatever it's worth, I'm not sure that derailing an interesting discussion into a petty argument about whether a particular comment is or is not "of value" adds any value to the discussion either.

fizzylu · May 17

I like PvP and PvE, but I also can easily understand why some might not like one or the other. The TES franchise was never built around PvP to begin with as well so whether or not the game was designed with PvP being the endgame focus, it's not a surprise that more players like the casual RPG fluff features or just PvE. And with the current state of combat and performance in this game, I can confirm that the PvP focused gamers don't have ESO at the top of their "what game shall I play" list.

Dax_Draconis · May 17

FelisCatus wrote: »

It's strange to ask this when the game was originally marketed as a PvP game on launch.I notice constantly that whenever there is a PvP event, PvE players are up in arms. So I wanted to ask why don't you enjoy PvP? What would make you enjoy it?

I thought ESO was marketed as Skyrim with Friends.

I only go to PvP when there is a specific item I want. Cyrodiil is always a miserable experience that usually consists of boring battles with unkillable players. I'm only going to run back to a battle a couple times before I am completely bored and rather go watch paint dry. The IC is even a more disgusting experience the way guildmates from opposing factions team up to help each other locate and farm hidden players.

That is all just my opinion about ESO PvP. I won't fault anyone else for liking it though. It's just not for me.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · May 17

furiouslog wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

So the OP asked another question to which you have not shared your answer: why don't you enjoy PVP?

For the same reason I don't like broccoli. I just don't enjoy it.

furiouslog wrote: »

The follow up is "what would it take", and you have turned that into "what do we need to do to change you," which I don't believe was the intent. I don't think the OP is asking to start an argument about your personal preferences - I think they legitimately want to understand your POV.

Nothing would make me enjoy something I just plain don't enjoy. Why would it be assumed that I am looking to find ways to enjoy it?

Well,m you are not the person who this thread is for then, I guess. Why would anyone even come in to say something so thoroughly unhelpful?

Q: Why don''t you like this?
A: I just don't.

Q: What could change that?
A: Nothing.

Why did you even bother sharing that? Wait, don't tell me, the answer is "because".

The amount of soul-crushingly aggressive attempts to shut down ideation on this forum is truly depressing.

I think this is a legitimate answer. There is this idea in the PvP community of many games that if we can just find the secret sauce PvE players will flock to PvP. The reality is there is nothing that can be done to make PvP appealing to people who do not like the style of game play.

Keep in mind most players who don't like PvP will have tried it at some point.The reasons people do not like PvP are as varied as the player base is diverse. Some will tell you as they've gotten older they don't feel like doing it anymore, some will tell you they just don't like it, others will say they aren't the competitive type, some don't like the idea of simulated combat due to there being real people behind the game character, etc. I also think for MMOs like ESO, WoW or Final Fantasy 14 PvP tends to be a sub-game to allow players to dabble with PvP with the realization that really hardcore PvP players tend to play PvP only games. In the end I don't think there is anything that can be done to entice more people to try PvP. It really is as simple as you either like it or you don't and nothing will change a player's feelings on the subject.

I disagree - I think that anyone who has spent any time at all on self reflection understands and can share the specifics of their motivations. If they don't want to, why even participate in the conversation? It literally offers nothing, and it shuts down any discussion, which is what I understood the point of a forum to be.

This is a game and therefore there is no reason for a person to self-reflect and analyze why they don't like PvP. How they handled a real life situation, how they can the leave world a better place than they found it and so on, yes a little self-reflection can be good but a game? Sorry I play computer games for relaxation not personal growth.

I don't like PvP for a myriad of reasons. Being in the later stages of life I guess you could put me in the camp of not caring about competition as I've made and exceeded all of my goals in real life. I don't like the behavior of a not insignificant minority of players who do not support the values of good sportsmanship and not demeaning other people that I was raised with. I'll stop here though I could go on. Does that make a difference as to why PvP is and generally will always be a niche compared to the PvE community? You aren't going to change my beliefs nor enough PvE players beliefs to make any meaningful change to number of players willing to PvP. As I implied in my previous post, there is no secret sauce. If there had been don't you think MMOs would have discovered it years ago?

As to shutting down discussion I would say you are trying to do what you accuse others of doing. There is nothing wrong with a person saying they don't like something and there is nothing you can do about. In fact I rather appreciate when someone is blunt and replies using your question "What would make you enjoy it?" with "Nothing". You asked and more than one responder has stated there is nothing that would get them to consider or reconsider PvP.

I think a better question would be to ask active PvP players, "Why don't you like PvP in ESO and what could be done to bring you back?" But we already have a good idea of what the answers to that question would be.

chessalavakia_ESO · May 17

Because the design of ESO's PvP generally focuses on catering to a niche audience.

First, like many other MMO games ESO's PvP puts a significant grind in front of players which makes it so it can take players a prolonged period of time to be anything close to competitive. This choice cuts down on your potential players significantly as many people don't want to be stuck grinding but, it makes a portion of players that like having an advantage over others due to the grind happy.

Second, the rewards slant too heavily towards the winning side. For the people that think they'll generally be the winners this works great but, elsewhere it fails. This leads to frustration as people can feel that their time spent isn't well rewarded and uneven conflicts as people will stack with the winning side or log off if they think they are on the losing side.

Third, many of the effective tactics aren't fun to play against. The ball group, the person 1vXing, bomber, and the ganker might be having a blast doing what they do but, for most everyone else it just isn't fun.

Fourth, the scaling allows for epic moments at the cost of having a bunch of boring ones. In Cyrodiil it's easy to spend more time riding than fighting. In Battlegrounds you can have the match doomed to be uneven from the start because the teams only have four players so any failure in the MMR can lead to things being incredibly one sided.

Fifth, players that like PvP aren't necessarily the biggest fans of PvE elements getting mixed in when it isn't really necessary.

Sixth, the story in many of the PvP areas kind of puts a damper on the fighting. People frequently want to see themselves as a hero and if you pay much attention in Cyrodiil or in the Imperial City it's pretty clear the war isn't heroic at all.

fizzylu · May 17

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Third, many of the effective tactics aren't fun to play against. The ball group, the person 1vXing, bomber, and the ganker might be having a blast doing what they do but, for most everyone else it just isn't fun.

This. I mentioned these things in a thread asking why ESO doesn't really have a big streaming audience and it really comes down to the fact that the combat gameplay is the way it is.

tomofhyrule · May 17

furiouslog wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

So the OP asked another question to which you have not shared your answer: why don't you enjoy PVP?

For the same reason I don't like broccoli. I just don't enjoy it.

furiouslog wrote: »

The follow up is "what would it take", and you have turned that into "what do we need to do to change you," which I don't believe was the intent. I don't think the OP is asking to start an argument about your personal preferences - I think they legitimately want to understand your POV.

Nothing would make me enjoy something I just plain don't enjoy. Why would it be assumed that I am looking to find ways to enjoy it?

Well,m you are not the person who this thread is for then, I guess. Why would anyone even come in to say something so thoroughly unhelpful?

Q: Why don''t you like this?
A: I just don't.

Q: What could change that?
A: Nothing.

Why did you even bother sharing that? Wait, don't tell me, the answer is "because".

The amount of soul-crushingly aggressive attempts to shut down ideation on this forum is truly depressing.

I think this is a legitimate answer. There is this idea in the PvP community of many games that if we can just find the secret sauce PvE players will flock to PvP. The reality is there is nothing that can be done to make PvP appealing to people who do not like the style of game play.

Keep in mind most players who don't like PvP will have tried it at some point.The reasons people do not like PvP are as varied as the player base is diverse. Some will tell you as they've gotten older they don't feel like doing it anymore, some will tell you they just don't like it, others will say they aren't the competitive type, some don't like the idea of simulated combat due to there being real people behind the game character, etc. I also think for MMOs like ESO, WoW or Final Fantasy 14 PvP tends to be a sub-game to allow players to dabble with PvP with the realization that really hardcore PvP players tend to play PvP only games. In the end I don't think there is anything that can be done to entice more people to try PvP. It really is as simple as you either like it or you don't and nothing will change a player's feelings on the subject.

I disagree - I think that anyone who has spent any time at all on self reflection understands and can share the specifics of their motivations. If they don't want to, why even participate in the conversation? It literally offers nothing, and it shuts down any discussion, which is what I understood the point of a forum to be.

This is an example of the point that's trying to be made though.

For a large number of PvErs, there really is nothing that will make them like PvP. And that's something that a large group of PvPers simply don't understand - you will never, in any way, make this group like PvP when the problem they have with PvP involves:

I don't like to play competitively
I don't like to play with other people
I don't like being in constant fear of dying

because those are all fundamental to PvP. A player who doesn't like any or all of those will therefore never enjoy PvP, and will not want to PvP until those are removed (at which point, it's no longer PvP).

You may as well poll the PvP community and demand them to tell you why they don't like playing Tales of Tribute and what could be done to make ToT more enticing for them. I'm sure more than 9/10 PvPers would respond "delete the card game and do something that involves the combat system."

As for me, I've done PvP. I don't like to do it. I have to be in the mood to go into Cyrodiil, which rarely happens outside of events. And I'm also the kind of person who would rather solo a dungeon before bothering a friend to help out, so I usually end up going into PvP solo... which is never a good start to "having fun." Plus my friends tend to play a different alliance than me, so I'm not involved when they go into PvP, and they're not playing their mains when they come with me.

I've never really played multiplayer games ever. Even when I was a kid and played board games, I always ended up changing the rules to play by myself since I never had anyone to play with. And as I got older, I didn't like to impose on others - I'll join in if people are doing stuff (I love running dungeons and trials, but as long as I'm invited instead of forming my own groups). I also don't like being competitive at all. I hate competition, even if I can't see the person I'm fighting against. As such, PvP is negative fun for me and is just a chore. I've done it - I strugglebussed my way to more than one dye because I needed it for a costume, and I did end up getting Emp during a MYM one year, but PvP is honestly the very last thing I'd do in this game if I wanted to have fun, and I'd rather do literally anything else than PvP most times.

Now of course, there are plenty of examples of PvErs who have crossed the line and gone into PvP. I'm not going to pretend there aren't. But I'm also not going to pretend that's something that's common or is attainable to convert a majority of the PvE base.

Aislinna · May 17

I don't enjoy ESO PvP, but I loved PvP in my last game, ArcheAge. The reason is that ArcheAge was more PvEvP objective based and had significant best-in-slot gear rewards, neither of which apply to Cyrodiil.

For example, ArcheAge had scheduled/time-constrained world bosses (WB) that could not be killed by a single/few players (hackers/cheaters don't count lol), it required group effort from a good sized group. The WB had a huge health bar, such that a 30/40-man raid, without any pvp interference, required 15-20 minutes to kill it (some events required more, some less). It required both PvP and PvE players, it could require siege weapons (crafted outside of the event), people to operate the siege weapons, people to repair the siege weapons, PvE healers to keep the operators alive, PvPers to protect the operators and equipment and PvP healers, and required knowing the PvE fight mechanics of the event and it always helped to have leaders make call outs about the fights. Additionally, respawn points were never far from the event. If the WB was not killed in the defined amount of timed, it despawned and most players just fought until they died and then only the hardcore would return to keep fighting each other. So in the end, I knew when, where and how long PvP could be and if the other alliance didn't show up, it was a challenging PvE event with a best-in-slot gear reward chance for one raid member.

I find ESO Cryodiil and Imperial City PvP to be a boring grind, I have no compelling objective to achieve and I have no chance at a great reward. Population and server capacity issues are real.