Scribing is going to render the community insane (and not in the positive way)

Skoomah

Get good grinders! Learn to play all aspects of the game or be nerfed. And get your wallet ready or grind for one year!

Icy_Waffles

Yeeeeeeah this makes me so hesitant with Gold Road.. more like Gold Sink and a Long Road. lol

I am all for new systems and updates but making it such a grind at such a cost feels unnecessary

JustLovely

Scribbing seems like another little step toward a pay to win based combat system. For PvP this will create a significant difference in strength for those who do and don't purchase the new chapter.

virtus753

Latest update on current drop rates:

• Over 1,115 enemies killed since completing Indrik: 0 ink
• 1,002 survey nodes farmed since completing Netch: 0 ink
• 1,003 non-survey nodes farmed since completing Netch: 6 ink (0.6%)
  
• Plentiful Harvest procs on Ink: 0

I've put this in the bug thread, as I don't see this as realistic in the short term, when many players will want to get into the new system and some will want to actually explore those 4,000 possibilities the devs are advertising.

If anyone finds Ink from an enemy or survey node, please let me know. Right now I'm suspecting they were not actually implemented and that (at least for enemies) the drop chances might be fixed before live.

xylena_lazarow

Skoomah wrote: »

Get good grinders! Learn to play all aspects of the game or be nerfed. And get your wallet ready or grind for one year!

Agreed. Everyone is now hard locked out of doing quests, writs, entering houses, or gathering resources until they complete the Emperor! achievement in PvP.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

I cleared out all the quests I could manage in the West Weald and got one - one - Luminous Ink from kills.

Gorø wrote: »

Also turns out that the dailies have a hidden cooldown into them. Doing a FG daily gives a script but redoing another FG on another char doesn't give a script.

For what it’s worth, the Mage Guild Daily and the Delve Daily cooldowns appear to be separate, as I got a script from each on my Templar.

That said, I’m also disappointed that the Script drop cooldown is so far reaching - the logical thing to do, from my perspective, would be to have the cooldown on a per-quest basis - so if Character A does the Necrom Delve Daily and gets a drop, then Character B couldn’t get a script drop from their Necrom Delve Daily but could get a drop from the Wrothgar Delve Daily - this would encourage people to spread out and populate more zones, as well as slow burnout from doing the same delves over and over and over. It even encourages people to buy more DLCs/subscribe to ESO+ so they have access to more dailies!

Zabagad

virtus753 wrote: »

• Over 1,115 enemies killed since completing Indrik: 0 ink
• 1,002 survey nodes farmed since completing Netch: 0 ink
• 1,003 non-survey nodes farmed since completing Netch: 6 ink (0.6%)

I see a new golden age of bots arising...

Desiato

This is exactly why ESO PVP isn't more popular. There are too many boring PVE hoops to jump through to play it. The barrier of entry is hundreds of hours of PVE.

Most PVP gamers who don't currently play ESO would not even consider doing this crap for the privilege to eventually be competitive in PVP.

wolfie1.0.

I have multiple accounts. Normally I consider getting 5 or 6 upgrade copies, and do. With this set up. I'm getting 1 and sticking with it.

This system is, imo twice as bad as antiquities considering the grinds and mix of both character and account wide unlocks.

I'm basically to the point where it might be better to just pretend the system doesn't exist.

Or maybe I am just too old.

SilverBride

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I'm basically to the point where it might be better to just pretend the system doesn't exist.

I've been at that point since this was announced.

React

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno

Does the team have any plans to address the concerns in this post during the PTS cycle?

The grind this system requires for combat upgrades that are essentially necessary for endgame PVP and PVE isn't comparable to anything else in the game currently. It is going to drastically increase the barrier to entry for these activities, and force dozens of hours of monotonous grinding to be repeated across multiple characters for anybody that wishes to be competitive.

Scripts and grimoures really should be account wide, not per character.

wolfie1.0.

React wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno

Does the team have any plans to address the concerns in this post during the PTS cycle?

The grind this system requires for combat upgrades that are essentially necessary for engame PVP and PVE isn't comparable to anything else in the game currently. It is going to drastically increase the barrier to entry for these activities, and force dozens of hours of monotonous grinding to be repeated across multiple characters for anybody that wishes to be competitive.

Scripts and grimoures really should be account wide, not per character.

You hit all of the points as to why they won't change it, and if they do it will be next year after it's on to the next chapter.

alternatelder

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Unironically I would be extremely happy to simply buy Grimoires for Crowns. I'm not buying if I have to grind quests.

I am a PvPer, I do not care about grinding quests or "rewards" I simply want to be competitive in PvP, and it would be a ton of fun to tune PvP builds having access to the parts of the system I need. Other games do this and make money off it.

Being competitive in PvP is not a "reward" that you grind for, it only truly comes from practicing PvP. We are not playing the same game as casual MMO grinders, PvP has nothing to do with doing chores for npcs and should not. There is no reason to "force" PvPers into questing just like there is no reason to "force" questers into PvP zones for event tickets.

If every updated PvP build is going to take 12 hours of boring chores I hate, then I'm simply not going to play. The well of fomo and compulsion is running dry, this game is a decade old and it's not so important it can get away with that. Every day another player decides that it's not worth working a job to pay money for a game that makes you work another job before you're allowed to play it. I'll pay $40 to PvP, not paying $40 do to npc chores, no thanks.

So you basically just want everything handed to you? It doesn't sound like an mmo is a game you should be playing.

sarahthes

alternatelder wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Unironically I would be extremely happy to simply buy Grimoires for Crowns. I'm not buying if I have to grind quests.

I am a PvPer, I do not care about grinding quests or "rewards" I simply want to be competitive in PvP, and it would be a ton of fun to tune PvP builds having access to the parts of the system I need. Other games do this and make money off it.

Being competitive in PvP is not a "reward" that you grind for, it only truly comes from practicing PvP. We are not playing the same game as casual MMO grinders, PvP has nothing to do with doing chores for npcs and should not. There is no reason to "force" PvPers into questing just like there is no reason to "force" questers into PvP zones for event tickets.

If every updated PvP build is going to take 12 hours of boring chores I hate, then I'm simply not going to play. The well of fomo and compulsion is running dry, this game is a decade old and it's not so important it can get away with that. Every day another player decides that it's not worth working a job to pay money for a game that makes you work another job before you're allowed to play it. I'll pay $40 to PvP, not paying $40 do to npc chores, no thanks.

So you basically just want everything handed to you? It doesn't sound like an mmo is a game you should be playing.

People who exclusively PvP would prefer if their grind was more PvP focused rather than having to PvE for it.

Edit: It's more that the things they need should be generally available doing the content they like doing.

KlauthWarthog

Well, part of the issue has been acknowledged on the patch notes.

xylena_lazarow

alternatelder wrote: »

So you basically just want everything handed to you? It doesn't sound like an mmo is a game you should be playing.

When I pay $40 for a product, yes I would like that product handed to me, not be told I need to work a second job before I can play the game I paid $40 for. And no I am not playing "mmo grind" I am playing PvP as stated before.

Freilauftomate

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

Well, part of the issue has been acknowledged on the patch notes.

WHO has seen the feedback? 1 person? 2?
WHO is discussing possible adjustments for the future? Janitor: "should we do something?" Security guard: "No idea, that's not my job"...
And we all know what "keeping us posted" looks like...

Nerouyn

Gorø wrote: »

During my testing, I've noticed something that will anger your community which is the amount of repetitiveness that this system will make us endure. Scribing was mostly designed for combat oriented gameplay, thus, it comes to no surprise that it will peak the interest of the dungeons, arenas, trials and PvP community. Do you know what these communities have in common?

Ahem.

You do understand that the "v" in "PvE" stands for versus and refers to combat.

For my tastes this game misses the mark in many respects when it comes to dungeons and I'm not super into PvP generally.

But the game has excellent quest content. That's why many people play and none of the above.

Gorø wrote: »

They don't want to be imprisoned by an endless amount of questing.

Any content has the potential to become repetitive but this, out in the world business, is the stuff I enjoy.

MoonPile

virtus753 wrote: »

Latest update on current drop rates:

• Over 1,115 enemies killed since completing Indrik: 0 ink
• 1,002 survey nodes farmed since completing Netch: 0 ink
• 1,003 non-survey nodes farmed since completing Netch: 6 ink (0.6%)
  
• Plentiful Harvest procs on Ink: 0

I've put this in the bug thread, as I don't see this as realistic in the short term, when many players will want to get into the new system and some will want to actually explore those 4,000 possibilities the devs are advertising.

If anyone finds Ink from an enemy or survey node, please let me know. Right now I'm suspecting they were not actually implemented and that (at least for enemies) the drop chances might be fixed before live.

Thank you for doing this.

That is awful and sad. I was hesitant about Scribing from the start, but wanted to give it the benefit of the doubt: maybe, like Infinite Archive, it would also be more fun than I expected.

But between these drop rate issues (broadly; I totally ignored those Jubilee style pages.) and people reporting that the skills themselves don't add much, it seems DOA unless they fix these things. Sad because it seems like they want players to be excited about this system they clearly put a ton of work into, but many like me will just pass if it feels extortionate and not fun. It's a waste.

But IA got better thanks to players: PTS feedback. I hope this will, too.

wolfie1.0.

virtus753 wrote: »

Latest update on current drop rates:

• Over 1,115 enemies killed since completing Indrik: 0 ink
• 1,002 survey nodes farmed since completing Netch: 0 ink
• 1,003 non-survey nodes farmed since completing Netch: 6 ink (0.6%)
  
• Plentiful Harvest procs on Ink: 0

I've put this in the bug thread, as I don't see this as realistic in the short term, when many players will want to get into the new system and some will want to actually explore those 4,000 possibilities the devs are advertising.

If anyone finds Ink from an enemy or survey node, please let me know. Right now I'm suspecting they were not actually implemented and that (at least for enemies) the drop chances might be fixed before live.

That drop rate so far puts it somewhere between potent nirn and aetherial dust dust.

If it's going to be that bad....

There are going to be many many many upset players when this goes live.

alternatelder

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

So you basically just want everything handed to you? It doesn't sound like an mmo is a game you should be playing.

When I pay $40 for a product, yes I would like that product handed to me, not be told I need to work a second job before I can play the game I paid $40 for. And no I am not playing "mmo grind" I am playing PvP as stated before.

But that's what a game is... Did you buy Elden Ring and expect the weapons to be laid out in front of you after character creation?

xylena_lazarow

alternatelder wrote: »

But that's what a game is... Did you buy Elden Ring and expect the weapons to be laid out in front of you after character creation?

Maybe to you? To me ESO PvP is a game, doing chores for npcs is not a game. I did not buy or play Elden Ring.

Tommy_The_Gun

Biggest issue I can see is that Scribing will be a game changer & huge meta shift for both PvE & PvP. It will be locked behind Paywall making it essentially P2W. On top of that it will require grinding in many aspects of the game. If some of the sources of those new skills will be not instanced it will be essentially "Stormhaven boss" / "Shadowfen Plants" syndrome allover again.

I am also worried about PvP as it is already a joke balance wise and they are adding even more paid advantage. I guess it may be good moment to take a break from PvP for at least like 6 months till power creep stuff gets netfed / adjusted.

For PvP event I think I am gonna pass any serious participation & just do bare minimum. I am also thinking of skipping IC part entirely as apparently there is some new crazy push/pull Scribing skill that will be exclusively used to knock people down from IC respaw platforms to the meat grinders below.

Ezhh

This sounds horrible. Thank you to the people testing this on PTS. I tested the skills but not the process to unlock them, and this is beyond the worst I thought they might do.

I, like so many others, want to be able to enjoy the new system. I have at least one character of every class that I actively play, more of some (due to wanting different races/alliances). The thought of grinding everything out on each, having shared cooldowns between characters on top of that, some level of RNG so I might not even get the script I need before being stuck behind a cooldown, and then a grind for ink that seems to make testing different scripts an expensive undertaking on top of the rest...

This moves scribing from an interesting and exciting system that I really wanted to engage with and looked forward to testing to "just another annoying grind". There's enough content in the game that I can find something to do each day without adding endless soul-numbing mind-destroying grind around every corner. So please ZoS, if you think this is going to engage people more, reconsider. If it goes live like this, especially if crown store scripts pop up in a few months time, you are really showing us how little our time is valued.

Turtle_Bot

I don't mind it having a grind, but what is being described, definitely seems too much.

Inks will definitely need to have their drop rate increased (by a lot) considering how essential they are to actually making and altering the skills (otherwise, you better make the skill correct the first time, or tough luck).

Making the Scripts and grimoires be account wide, not per character would be the best fix for this. Even if they make it so that each character still has to separately complete the first quest to gain access to the scribing table, to then be able to use the scripts and grimoires would be a better option than the current way.
This would keep it involved and a grind for the first character, but not something that would be forced to be repeated for every single character after the first. But, what it does do, is each character would still have to do the first quest to gain access to the table to be able to make use of scribing and the unlocked scripts and grimoires, having each character still do something to gain access to scribing, but not complete everything.

At the bare minimum, if they are going to keep it "character based" then have the script and grimoire daily drops be character based as well instead of account based so that players can at least get 1 per day on each character each day instead of 1 per account per day then repeat for every character which is completely absurd.

Quethrosar

account wide and common drops, i have spoken.

Reginald_leBlem

Honestly, this sounds like it takes the worst aspects of both antiquities and psijic questline, combines them, and adds a 3rd layer.

I don't want a second job, I want to have fun, I want scribing skills I can unlock, and then USE to play with my friends.

ArchMikem

I thought you people wanted more Gold sinks?

WhiteCoatSyndrome

ArchMikem wrote: »

I thought you people wanted more Gold sinks?

The scripts are dropping from dailies, so no gold is leaving the economy by looting them.

(Or are you referring to ZOS?)

sarahthes

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

I thought you people wanted more Gold sinks?

The scripts are dropping from dailies, so no gold is leaving the economy by looting them.

(Or are you referring to ZOS?)

The Grimoires have to be purchased tho iirc.