TechMaybeHic wrote: »As I play my sorc more and get better at it, I'll say hardened ward has been a good set of training wheels. I can probably get rid of the Nibenay as I keep my shield up a lot better and rarely feel pressured outside of a ball group bombing. All while hitting someone trying to run away with a 8-9k meteor and and 8-9k curse and saw they died before the frag got there as I am starting to get a feel for the combo and using streak very offensively. I was just imagining what balorgs would have looked like Oh no; they might try to block curse next patch when I am already streaking through them.
@TechMaybeHic
The coefficient difference between meteor and curse is approximately ~30% higher for meteor.
If you're gonna make up numbers you mine as well be consistent.
Also meteor is telegraphed and very easy to counter. The timing required to guarantee meteor to hit with streak is extremely difficult (coming from a veteran Sorc). The reason Templars javelin is so popular with meteor is because there is a significant animation involved with the Hard CC (Knockback) versus Streak (stun) you can break free from streak and immediately block the meteor. This will also be the case for curse now.
I can count on one hand the number of times I've been killed by Streak Meteor (it's unpopular for a reason).
Dawnbreaker is just the superior ultimate for Sorc (also is physical damage which gets buffed by our passive).
Dawnbreaker is more threatening to go against but fewer players can land it. Meteor is really good for dealing with Tarnished gankers and can hit opposing Sorcs as they try to Streak away. Given the rather weird state of Sorc ults right now, you can easily make an argument to run both Dawnbreaker and Meteor on your Sorc.TechMaybeHic wrote: »I've run Dawnbreaker as well but I honestly find it easier to Streak through for shooting star than get right on for the conal.
xylena_lazarow wrote: »Dawnbreaker is more threatening to go against but fewer players can land it. Meteor is really good for dealing with Tarnished gankers and can hit opposing Sorcs as they try to Streak away. Given the rather weird state of Sorc ults right now, you can easily make an argument to run both Dawnbreaker and Meteor on your Sorc.TechMaybeHic wrote: »I've run Dawnbreaker as well but I honestly find it easier to Streak through for shooting star than get right on for the conal.
TechMaybeHic wrote: »As I play my sorc more and get better at it, I'll say hardened ward has been a good set of training wheels. I can probably get rid of the Nibenay as I keep my shield up a lot better and rarely feel pressured outside of a ball group bombing. All while hitting someone trying to run away with a 8-9k meteor and and 8-9k curse and saw they died before the frag got there as I am starting to get a feel for the combo and using streak very offensively. I was just imagining what balorgs would have looked like Oh no; they might try to block curse next patch when I am already streaking through them.
@TechMaybeHic
The coefficient difference between meteor and curse is approximately ~30% higher for meteor.
If you're gonna make up numbers you mine as well be consistent.
Also meteor is telegraphed and very easy to counter. The timing required to guarantee meteor to hit with streak is extremely difficult (coming from a veteran Sorc). The reason Templars javelin is so popular with meteor is because there is a significant animation involved with the Hard CC (Knockback) versus Streak (stun) you can break free from streak and immediately block the meteor. This will also be the case for curse now.
I can count on one hand the number of times I've been killed by Streak Meteor (it's unpopular for a reason).
Dawnbreaker is just the superior ultimate for Sorc (also is physical damage which gets buffed by our passive).
StaticWave wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build
2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.
Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better
After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.
@Alchimiste1
This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.
Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.
The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World
I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.
@StaticWave
That's because it's easy and 99% of the playerbase just runs what Streamers / YouTubers say is good.
Chudan over Balorgh? Nah that ain't it. Ele sus and an extra GCD over 15% movement speed in OW PvP?
Not saying Chudan/crafty/wretched isn't effective, it 100% works. But I'd be more afraid of a Sorc with Balorgh.
I'll give you that Chudan/crafty/wretched will be better in duels especially when paired with wield soul and Major Defile. But once again in my opinion that's a poor OW build. I want to be able to switch targets on the fly without casting extra debuffs. I want to be able to curse, spammable/frag, streak, dawnbreaker at a moments notice. Adding an extra GCD in there slows things down.
In OW PvP I find Mag Sorc to be most effective when you catch an opponent by surprise. Give them as little time to react as possible. Otherwise Mag Sorcs has very easy to counter burst. As long as I have resources to Dodge Roll and Block I'm not dying to a Mag Sorc.
Alchimiste1 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build
2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.
Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better
After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.
@Alchimiste1
This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.
Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.
The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World
I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.
@StaticWave
That's because it's easy and 99% of the playerbase just runs what Streamers / YouTubers say is good.
Chudan over Balorgh? Nah that ain't it. Ele sus and an extra GCD over 15% movement speed in OW PvP?
Not saying Chudan/crafty/wretched isn't effective, it 100% works. But I'd be more afraid of a Sorc with Balorgh.
I'll give you that Chudan/crafty/wretched will be better in duels especially when paired with wield soul and Major Defile. But once again in my opinion that's a poor OW build. I want to be able to switch targets on the fly without casting extra debuffs. I want to be able to curse, spammable/frag, streak, dawnbreaker at a moments notice. Adding an extra GCD in there slows things down.
In OW PvP I find Mag Sorc to be most effective when you catch an opponent by surprise. Give them as little time to react as possible. Otherwise Mag Sorcs has very easy to counter burst. As long as I have resources to Dodge Roll and Block I'm not dying to a Mag Sorc.
Using hurricane with no snare removal seems like diminishing returns. I don't really see any of the people I mentioned having trouble kiting with chudan and streak
Bushido2513 wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build
2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.
Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better
After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.
@Alchimiste1
This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.
Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.
The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World
I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.
@StaticWave
That's because it's easy and 99% of the playerbase just runs what Streamers / YouTubers say is good.
Chudan over Balorgh? Nah that ain't it. Ele sus and an extra GCD over 15% movement speed in OW PvP?
Not saying Chudan/crafty/wretched isn't effective, it 100% works. But I'd be more afraid of a Sorc with Balorgh.
I'll give you that Chudan/crafty/wretched will be better in duels especially when paired with wield soul and Major Defile. But once again in my opinion that's a poor OW build. I want to be able to switch targets on the fly without casting extra debuffs. I want to be able to curse, spammable/frag, streak, dawnbreaker at a moments notice. Adding an extra GCD in there slows things down.
In OW PvP I find Mag Sorc to be most effective when you catch an opponent by surprise. Give them as little time to react as possible. Otherwise Mag Sorcs has very easy to counter burst. As long as I have resources to Dodge Roll and Block I'm not dying to a Mag Sorc.
Using hurricane with no snare removal seems like diminishing returns. I don't really see any of the people I mentioned having trouble kiting with chudan and streak
I've played both ways and enjoy hurricane more because it fits my style. Fights will vary in the number of snares and how you get hit by them so mostly I don't even notice them that much. I do notice when I'm moving slower than I'd prefer.
There is no right or wrong here just preference. There's 1vx videos with and without ele sus or crushing weapon. It's just up to the player preference and your best skill or build is really the one you're most comfortable with.
Alchimiste1 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build
2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.
Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better
After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.
@Alchimiste1
This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.
Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.
The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World
I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.
@StaticWave
That's because it's easy and 99% of the playerbase just runs what Streamers / YouTubers say is good.
Chudan over Balorgh? Nah that ain't it. Ele sus and an extra GCD over 15% movement speed in OW PvP?
Not saying Chudan/crafty/wretched isn't effective, it 100% works. But I'd be more afraid of a Sorc with Balorgh.
I'll give you that Chudan/crafty/wretched will be better in duels especially when paired with wield soul and Major Defile. But once again in my opinion that's a poor OW build. I want to be able to switch targets on the fly without casting extra debuffs. I want to be able to curse, spammable/frag, streak, dawnbreaker at a moments notice. Adding an extra GCD in there slows things down.
In OW PvP I find Mag Sorc to be most effective when you catch an opponent by surprise. Give them as little time to react as possible. Otherwise Mag Sorcs has very easy to counter burst. As long as I have resources to Dodge Roll and Block I'm not dying to a Mag Sorc.
Using hurricane with no snare removal seems like diminishing returns. I don't really see any of the people I mentioned having trouble kiting with chudan and streak
Alchimiste1 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build
2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.
Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better
After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.
@Alchimiste1
This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.
Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.
The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World
I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.
@StaticWave
That's because it's easy and 99% of the playerbase just runs what Streamers / YouTubers say is good.
Chudan over Balorgh? Nah that ain't it. Ele sus and an extra GCD over 15% movement speed in OW PvP?
Not saying Chudan/crafty/wretched isn't effective, it 100% works. But I'd be more afraid of a Sorc with Balorgh.
I'll give you that Chudan/crafty/wretched will be better in duels especially when paired with wield soul and Major Defile. But once again in my opinion that's a poor OW build. I want to be able to switch targets on the fly without casting extra debuffs. I want to be able to curse, spammable/frag, streak, dawnbreaker at a moments notice. Adding an extra GCD in there slows things down.
In OW PvP I find Mag Sorc to be most effective when you catch an opponent by surprise. Give them as little time to react as possible. Otherwise Mag Sorcs has very easy to counter burst. As long as I have resources to Dodge Roll and Block I'm not dying to a Mag Sorc.
Using hurricane with no snare removal seems like diminishing returns. I don't really see any of the people I mentioned having trouble kiting with chudan and streak
Chudan setup doesn't use snare removal either. A good Sorc will use streak for mobility when snared as this ability is not effected by snares, then use their add movement speed mobility as the snare wears off.
Balorgh just has such a MASSIVE advantage over Chudan in OW.
Even at 250 Ulti cost that's 12 seconds of 6k penetration and 250 (+129 one piece) weapon damage. Which is like 3x of a 5 pc set bonus.
Killing potential for Balorgh is hard to replace. Especially when you can get breach from two different ranged spammables currently in the game.
Dawnbreaker and OL (I recognize that Balorgh doesn't work with OL, Balorgh is so powerful that its still worth it to run).
No ele sus in this setup, bars have Curse, mage light, frag, Crushing/Wield Soul, streak, Ward, aegis, surge, dark conversion, hurricane.
Also not "building" into speed. Major resolve is a must, minor expedition and AoE damage is a bonus.
Dawnbreaker and OL (I recognize that Balorgh doesn't work with OL, Balorgh is so powerful that its still worth it to run).
No ele sus in this setup, bars have Curse, mage light, frag, Crushing/Wield Soul, streak, Ward, aegis, surge, dark conversion, hurricane.
Also not "building" into speed. Major resolve is a must, minor expedition and AoE damage is a bonus.
Alchimiste1 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »It seems to me like you aren't running an optimal magsorc setup so maybe that's why your view is skewed. With respect, if you have the time, I would like for you try out the following build
2x Chudan, 5X wretched vitality, 5x crafty alfiq(front bar 5) and ddf. You should be able to hit 50k+ mag with little issues. Use max mag + health food. Your mundus can be anything depending on how comfortable you feel. (mage, shadow, recovery etc). 2-3 heavy pieces. Don't go below 17k max stam.
Please use the exact skills I have listed in my previous screenshot. Crushing is fine but ele is a bit better
After trying this out, please come back to these forums and update us on whether your position has changed.
@Alchimiste1
This is probably an optimal dueling build. But falls off in Open World or BGs in MY opinion.
Applying ele sus takes up a GCD. Crushing weapon receives a 5% buff from passives (physical damage). It also applies the status effect Sundered (otherwise you have to run a sub par enchant for it). Crushing weapon is fluid in your burst setup (and gets refunded mostly when your opponent dodge rolls helping with sustain). Hurricane also adds speed and AoE damage that can be applied preemptively before a target is present (versus ele sus). This also frees up the monster set to be Balorgh which outpaces Chudan significantly for burst kills.
The setup you mentioned is 100% the easy mode Sorc 1v1 burst down setup, and the one I suggest to all beginners. But it's far from optimal in Open World
I don't think I've seen a single magsorc using Hurricane in OW. Most are in Chudan/Crafty/Wretched.
@StaticWave
That's because it's easy and 99% of the playerbase just runs what Streamers / YouTubers say is good.
Chudan over Balorgh? Nah that ain't it. Ele sus and an extra GCD over 15% movement speed in OW PvP?
Not saying Chudan/crafty/wretched isn't effective, it 100% works. But I'd be more afraid of a Sorc with Balorgh.
I'll give you that Chudan/crafty/wretched will be better in duels especially when paired with wield soul and Major Defile. But once again in my opinion that's a poor OW build. I want to be able to switch targets on the fly without casting extra debuffs. I want to be able to curse, spammable/frag, streak, dawnbreaker at a moments notice. Adding an extra GCD in there slows things down.
In OW PvP I find Mag Sorc to be most effective when you catch an opponent by surprise. Give them as little time to react as possible. Otherwise Mag Sorcs has very easy to counter burst. As long as I have resources to Dodge Roll and Block I'm not dying to a Mag Sorc.
Using hurricane with no snare removal seems like diminishing returns. I don't really see any of the people I mentioned having trouble kiting with chudan and streak
Chudan setup doesn't use snare removal either. A good Sorc will use streak for mobility when snared as this ability is not effected by snares, then use their add movement speed mobility as the snare wears off.
Balorgh just has such a MASSIVE advantage over Chudan in OW.
Even at 250 Ulti cost that's 12 seconds of 6k penetration and 250 (+129 one piece) weapon damage. Which is like 3x of a 5 pc set bonus.
Killing potential for Balorgh is hard to replace. Especially when you can get breach from two different ranged spammables currently in the game.
I main a plar, not the best class right now but it's my class..and it is near on impossible to kill a decent spec right now, even *** specs hard carried are difficult, get them to 25% beam and an 8k heal with an 8k shield takes them back to 50% plus..avoiding any execute dmg..
xylena_lazarow wrote: »
I main a plar, not the best class right now but it's my class..and it is near on impossible to kill a decent spec right now, even *** specs hard carried are difficult, get them to 25% beam and an 8k heal with an 8k shield takes them back to 50% plus..avoiding any execute dmg..
xylena_lazarow wrote: »
I run Heroism/Mag/Stam pots and I get a lot of kills. Balorgh is a good friend of mine.
The thing is it's not bar compression, bar compression is adding breach to your spammable to slot a whole extra skill. This is a matter of ele sus vs hurricane. Both which require uptime.
With hurricane on and major breach on my spammable I can just switch from Target to target on the fly without using an extra GCD to apply breach. That's removing a GCD to deliver the same burst. That's invaluable.
xylena_lazarow wrote: »
I run Heroism/Mag/Stam pots and I get a lot of kills. Balorgh is a good friend of mine.
The thing is it's not bar compression, bar compression is adding breach to your spammable to slot a whole extra skill. This is a matter of ele sus vs hurricane. Both which require uptime.
With hurricane on and major breach on my spammable I can just switch from Target to target on the fly without using an extra GCD to apply breach. That's removing a GCD to deliver the same burst. That's invaluable.
StaticWave wrote: »xylena_lazarow wrote: »
I run Heroism/Mag/Stam pots and I get a lot of kills. Balorgh is a good friend of mine.
The thing is it's not bar compression, bar compression is adding breach to your spammable to slot a whole extra skill. This is a matter of ele sus vs hurricane. Both which require uptime.
With hurricane on and major breach on my spammable I can just switch from Target to target on the fly without using an extra GCD to apply breach. That's removing a GCD to deliver the same burst. That's invaluable.
Don't forget the on demand Minor Vul, Burning, and Minor Brittle from Ele sus. That's 5% damage taken, a decent DoT, and 10% crit damage. You also get to free up your front bar glyph for something else or even poisons. Realistically, those status effects end up matching the power of Balorgh. It's just a matter of preference at this point, unless you can somehow have Balorgh AND Ele sus on your bar (doable if you use Major Resolve for Shocking Soul)
Bushido2513 wrote: »Just recalled today, one interesting thing is to consider which works better in lag and which is better when more sorcs are around
Bushido2513 wrote: »Just recalled today, one interesting thing is to consider which works better in lag and which is better when more sorcs are around
To be fair I refuse to play in laggy conditions. I'll just turn the game off. That's why I don't play in Gray Host (notable for its poor server performance).
But Imbue weapon is a rough skill to use in lag, I'll agree to that.