Ember... I can only take her in very small doses. Her voice is annoying, but it's the childish glee she shares after killing people. "That was fun!" Um, Ember, we just killed a bunch of people, we pretty much just murdered them, as they were very over-matched. "Is it over?" Yes Ember, once again we just murdered more people, glad to see you'll have no regrets.
TheMajority wrote: »Treselegant wrote: »TheMajority wrote: »Treselegant wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Mirri... I honestly don't mind her personality, it's her aversion to harvesting butterflies that grates on me. Sometimes when running along I like to harvest a butterfly or two, and I don't want to have to keep dismissing her for that. So I basically turned her into a healer, which I rarely need.TheMajority wrote: »Bastian.
Really passive aggressive and mean-spirited. He seems to savor belittling people. Don't find him "good" at all. Nagging others and controlling their actions isn't what I call good. (No, I'm not talking about murder or theft. In general, this companion is annoying even when you avoid those activities, which I do.)
I play what you might call "lawful good" characters, and I still can't stand his black-and-white thinking.
He seems to have a "I'm GOOD so I'm soooo much better than YOU." attitude that doesn't take into account the circumstances of others or what they have been through.
He has the bare bones of what could have been a good character but his shallow dialogue and bad attitude really kills what could have been complex and interesting.
How can someone interpret his personality as this. How is he passive aggressive, mean-spirited and likes to belittle people. He's like the opposite.
I think there's finding some companion traits irritating and then there's complete character misinterpretation. I'm going to be honest and say the whole comment gave me pause. I don't think what was said resembles the character at all.TheMajority wrote: »
He seems to have a "I'm GOOD so I'm soooo much better than YOU." attitude that doesn't take into account the circumstances of others or what they have been through.
Companions don't exist to make the player feel inferior and if that is the feeling someone is getting from them then I don't know what to say really. There isn't anything in Bastian's dialogue to support this sort of reaction.
I didn't say I felt inferior. He acts superior to every other living thing he encounters. Every tiny mudcrab, every single person he kills, he shouts "they made their choices", as if any of these creatures could make a choice about anything. He has to feel morally superior over everything he encounters.
He's the kind of person who pretends he's good, but inside, he's just not, and is bitter or taking his anger out on other people.
It's really sad that he can do this.
When you get the "they made their choices - so be it" dialogue that is in relation to finishing a fight with a hostile. It means 'they' (the hostile: man, mer or beast) made the choice to fight you and not run away so if they die during the fight that it is a choice that they made. It's not anything to do with morally judging them.
As for the rest...I'm just not grasping what you're getting at sorry. I've read your post more than once now and I still have no idea what you're on about.
Hate away I guess but I imagine quite a few of us reading, who use this particular companion all the time, are left scratching our heads at your criticisms. Which is why you've had a few responses.
Not liking him does not mean hate. People can have a different feeling about something without hatred : ) It is only discussion. I like to read different Analisys based on my thoughts. I do not know why difference in thought is always considered 'hate' when no such emotion is involved.
Very subject to interpretation.
Also cultural background because in my country his behaviors are very very rude behaviors and he would be considered a very crass person who needs to learn humbleness and not demand things of others.
TheMajority wrote: »It's moral judgments from my perspective because actually most times you are attacking somebody else first in truth rarely does a creature or mob aggro first always it is you and your companion who is making the choice to attack.
So I see this line as him judging the choice they made in life as "bad and they deserve to die for choosing a different moral path". Which shows to me his lack of sympathetic thought towards other living beings and their circumstance.
Treselegant wrote: »TheMajority wrote: »Treselegant wrote: »TheMajority wrote: »Treselegant wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Mirri... I honestly don't mind her personality, it's her aversion to harvesting butterflies that grates on me. Sometimes when running along I like to harvest a butterfly or two, and I don't want to have to keep dismissing her for that. So I basically turned her into a healer, which I rarely need.TheMajority wrote: »Bastian.
Really passive aggressive and mean-spirited. He seems to savor belittling people. Don't find him "good" at all. Nagging others and controlling their actions isn't what I call good. (No, I'm not talking about murder or theft. In general, this companion is annoying even when you avoid those activities, which I do.)
I play what you might call "lawful good" characters, and I still can't stand his black-and-white thinking.
He seems to have a "I'm GOOD so I'm soooo much better than YOU." attitude that doesn't take into account the circumstances of others or what they have been through.
He has the bare bones of what could have been a good character but his shallow dialogue and bad attitude really kills what could have been complex and interesting.
How can someone interpret his personality as this. How is he passive aggressive, mean-spirited and likes to belittle people. He's like the opposite.
I think there's finding some companion traits irritating and then there's complete character misinterpretation. I'm going to be honest and say the whole comment gave me pause. I don't think what was said resembles the character at all.TheMajority wrote: »
He seems to have a "I'm GOOD so I'm soooo much better than YOU." attitude that doesn't take into account the circumstances of others or what they have been through.
Companions don't exist to make the player feel inferior and if that is the feeling someone is getting from them then I don't know what to say really. There isn't anything in Bastian's dialogue to support this sort of reaction.
I didn't say I felt inferior. He acts superior to every other living thing he encounters. Every tiny mudcrab, every single person he kills, he shouts "they made their choices", as if any of these creatures could make a choice about anything. He has to feel morally superior over everything he encounters.
He's the kind of person who pretends he's good, but inside, he's just not, and is bitter or taking his anger out on other people.
It's really sad that he can do this.
When you get the "they made their choices - so be it" dialogue that is in relation to finishing a fight with a hostile. It means 'they' (the hostile: man, mer or beast) made the choice to fight you and not run away so if they die during the fight that it is a choice that they made. It's not anything to do with morally judging them.
As for the rest...I'm just not grasping what you're getting at sorry. I've read your post more than once now and I still have no idea what you're on about.
Hate away I guess but I imagine quite a few of us reading, who use this particular companion all the time, are left scratching our heads at your criticisms. Which is why you've had a few responses.
Not liking him does not mean hate. People can have a different feeling about something without hatred : ) It is only discussion. I like to read different Analisys based on my thoughts. I do not know why difference in thought is always considered 'hate' when no such emotion is involved.
Very subject to interpretation.
Also cultural background because in my country his behaviors are very very rude behaviors and he would be considered a very crass person who needs to learn humbleness and not demand things of others.
Other commenters would have absolutely had the right to respond to me with confusion if I had worded my criticism of Isobel as such:
"I don't like this character because I think her niceness and distaste for all thing deadric is actually a front for her being a depraved cultist and having her around makes me feel uncomfortable. I also think her love of sweets is not so much that she loves sweets but because it reminds her how much she loves taking it from small children when you're not looking."
There isn't much evidence for either this interpretation of Isobel or yours of Bastian which is why it's confusing as to why you'd base your dislike of the character on it. Obviously I can't tell you how to feel but as mentioned elsewhere, it reads like you've got a problem with a companion that doesn't actually exist in game.
Maybe it bothers me a bit not because I like the companion but because when I was studying literature the rule was: make whatever wild claims you want to make about characters/themes as long as you can justify doing so and back it up referring to the source. I used to do it all the time - wild takes are fine but they have to rooted in the text somewhere. I know the forum companion discussions are hardly held to the same standard but still, it's a good rule to follow at times .
Just so we understand each other a bit better and a bit of clarity. When I say 'hate away' I doing so in a colloquial way, as in "you do you". I don't literally mean you are seething with hatred. Anyway, this is just going in circles now and I can see we're just talking past each other so I'm going to disengage. I'm going leave any actual character discussions to those who feel like doing so.
spartaxoxo wrote: »TheMajority wrote: »It's moral judgments from my perspective because actually most times you are attacking somebody else first in truth rarely does a creature or mob aggro first always it is you and your companion who is making the choice to attack.
So I see this line as him judging the choice they made in life as "bad and they deserve to die for choosing a different moral path". Which shows to me his lack of sympathetic thought towards other living beings and their circumstance.
The enemies on the map are attacking innocents though, that's why they are marked hostile. They are killing people for various reasons, some of which are literally wanting to kill everyone on Nirn for the aims of some Daedric prince.
Bastian dislikes the killing of enemies marked non-hostile precisely because the player/companion are making the first move and hurting innocents minding their own business. Bastian likes the killing of hostile enemies because they are making the move first to be a danger to passersby.
It does not really make much sense when talking about wolves. But the various automatically hostile human and Daedra enemies we meet are absolutely hurting innocents first. It's the whole reason we get various quests to kill them.
TheMajority wrote: »I wish they would have filter for animal enemies that don't make choices- for a foreign speaker, and for a different culture, it's causing confusion for me and my friends.
TheMajority wrote: »Treselegant wrote: »TheMajority wrote: »Treselegant wrote: »TheMajority wrote: »Treselegant wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Mirri... I honestly don't mind her personality, it's her aversion to harvesting butterflies that grates on me. Sometimes when running along I like to harvest a butterfly or two, and I don't want to have to keep dismissing her for that. So I basically turned her into a healer, which I rarely need.TheMajority wrote: »Bastian.
Really passive aggressive and mean-spirited. He seems to savor belittling people. Don't find him "good" at all. Nagging others and controlling their actions isn't what I call good. (No, I'm not talking about murder or theft. In general, this companion is annoying even when you avoid those activities, which I do.)
I play what you might call "lawful good" characters, and I still can't stand his black-and-white thinking.
He seems to have a "I'm GOOD so I'm soooo much better than YOU." attitude that doesn't take into account the circumstances of others or what they have been through.
He has the bare bones of what could have been a good character but his shallow dialogue and bad attitude really kills what could have been complex and interesting.
How can someone interpret his personality as this. How is he passive aggressive, mean-spirited and likes to belittle people. He's like the opposite.
I think there's finding some companion traits irritating and then there's complete character misinterpretation. I'm going to be honest and say the whole comment gave me pause. I don't think what was said resembles the character at all.TheMajority wrote: »
He seems to have a "I'm GOOD so I'm soooo much better than YOU." attitude that doesn't take into account the circumstances of others or what they have been through.
Companions don't exist to make the player feel inferior and if that is the feeling someone is getting from them then I don't know what to say really. There isn't anything in Bastian's dialogue to support this sort of reaction.
I didn't say I felt inferior. He acts superior to every other living thing he encounters. Every tiny mudcrab, every single person he kills, he shouts "they made their choices", as if any of these creatures could make a choice about anything. He has to feel morally superior over everything he encounters.
He's the kind of person who pretends he's good, but inside, he's just not, and is bitter or taking his anger out on other people.
It's really sad that he can do this.
When you get the "they made their choices - so be it" dialogue that is in relation to finishing a fight with a hostile. It means 'they' (the hostile: man, mer or beast) made the choice to fight you and not run away so if they die during the fight that it is a choice that they made. It's not anything to do with morally judging them.
As for the rest...I'm just not grasping what you're getting at sorry. I've read your post more than once now and I still have no idea what you're on about.
Hate away I guess but I imagine quite a few of us reading, who use this particular companion all the time, are left scratching our heads at your criticisms. Which is why you've had a few responses.
Not liking him does not mean hate. People can have a different feeling about something without hatred : ) It is only discussion. I like to read different Analisys based on my thoughts. I do not know why difference in thought is always considered 'hate' when no such emotion is involved.
Very subject to interpretation.
Also cultural background because in my country his behaviors are very very rude behaviors and he would be considered a very crass person who needs to learn humbleness and not demand things of others.
Other commenters would have absolutely had the right to respond to me with confusion if I had worded my criticism of Isobel as such:
"I don't like this character because I think her niceness and distaste for all thing deadric is actually a front for her being a depraved cultist and having her around makes me feel uncomfortable. I also think her love of sweets is not so much that she loves sweets but because it reminds her how much she loves taking it from small children when you're not looking."
There isn't much evidence for either this interpretation of Isobel or yours of Bastian which is why it's confusing as to why you'd base your dislike of the character on it. Obviously I can't tell you how to feel but as mentioned elsewhere, it reads like you've got a problem with a companion that doesn't actually exist in game.
Maybe it bothers me a bit not because I like the companion but because when I was studying literature the rule was: make whatever wild claims you want to make about characters/themes as long as you can justify doing so and back it up referring to the source. I used to do it all the time - wild takes are fine but they have to rooted in the text somewhere. I know the forum companion discussions are hardly held to the same standard but still, it's a good rule to follow at times .
Just so we understand each other a bit better and a bit of clarity. When I say 'hate away' I doing so in a colloquial way, as in "you do you". I don't literally mean you are seething with hatred. Anyway, this is just going in circles now and I can see we're just talking past each other so I'm going to disengage. I'm going leave any actual character discussions to those who feel like doing so.
I don't remember where I said you didn't have the right to say things? I even said the discussion was interesting. I don't know why you think I said they don't have the right to be confused, I even said I'm not angry and don't hate. Thinking you misinterpret a lot of posts intentions because the need to protect bastian is very strong with you. Which is okay, you like his character. Its just conversation, not a heated debate : ) I'm a chill person.
My claim is rooted in how I have read the text : ) You don't read it the same and that's cool. I'm not having an argument, only a discussion. Its how I feel and I only posted my opinion, and you posted yours. I'm not making a claim in court only posting an opinion of how I see the dialogue. I will continue not summoning him so that his negative energy does not influence me.
real character discussion involves positive and negative and different views from many sides of the coin, its interesting to me when I read a counter view even if my agreement isnt there, so it's real discussion.
TheMajority wrote: »He has to feel morally superior over everything he encounters.
Meanwhile characters like Isobel actually hope the creatures she encounters find peace.
Is there a companion you wished just never opened their mouth? If so, do you still utilize them in order to get their bonuses?
For me personally, there are some companions I haven't used at all yet. Isobel I didn't even give a chance because she had qualms with the idea of me picking a lock to get her what she needed to help her friend in her starter quest. In my eyes, anyone putting their knightly pride above the welfare of their friend is not worth my time and is not somebody I want around me. Haven't spoken to her since. Sharp as night is another one I haven't used yet just because my current main character wouldn't assist a character like him. But I am interested in finding out more about him. So those two I don't know their personalities.
I also stopped using mirri when she got disgusted with me for harvesting a bug for alchemy. Made me want to slap her. But other than that, her personality had seemed fine.
All that being said, Azandar drives me up a wall, but I want his bonus so I still keep him around to level up.
KlauthWarthog wrote: »Azandar. His "I am the only genius and everybody else is inferior" attitude is extremely irritating.
I wonder if it's more fitting to assume that any moral superiority you see with him is his attempt to recognize that he's a good person living a life of warfare in an "eat or be eaten" world.
TheMajority wrote: »He has to feel morally superior over everything he encounters.
Meanwhile characters like Isobel actually hope the creatures she encounters find peace.
I can definitely see where you're coming from with this. I haven't used Bastian much, but the discussions on here have made me more curious about him and I've begun to use him more. I can see how you think that with Bastian. But in his starter quest with the few moments that he seems to get really fed up with the person he's saving, I feel like those moments are not going through a filter of moral notions. It seems to just be a genuine human response to the situations he's faced, and he has that grounding to simply do without adding pretense to everything.
I wonder if it's more fitting to assume that any moral superiority you see with him is his attempt to recognize that he's a good person living a life of warfare in an "eat or be eaten" world.
spartaxoxo wrote: »I wonder if it's more fitting to assume that any moral superiority you see with him is his attempt to recognize that he's a good person living a life of warfare in an "eat or be eaten" world.
But Bastian is actually pretty cynical and angry at the world and his adoptive family. He wants to be lawful good because he wants to do right in a wartorn world. And he doesn't want to allow his rage to consume him. He doesn't want to be like the awful people he's met by watching over his adoptive brother.
Seems like we're not making a Bastian fanclub anytime soon.
Stuff his mouth with cheese and you'll never have to hear him again! Bonus, he'll be upset about the cheese.
Seems like we're not making a Bastian fanclub anytime soon.
Seems like we're not making a Bastian fanclub anytime soon.
Stuff his mouth with cheese and you'll never have to hear him again! Bonus, he'll be upset about the cheese.
Seems like we're not making a Bastian fanclub anytime soon.
Stuff his mouth with cheese and you'll never have to hear him again! Bonus, he'll be upset about the cheese.