Templar patch notes U41

VinnyGambini · February 4

Since ZOS didn't change anyting with templars with recent patch notes, I will present my own:

1. Jabs - this ability single target dmg part is no longer mitigated by evasion buffs. Additionally, visuals are changed, to match other templar abilities like charge and javelin. Developer comment: jabs should not be countered so easy in PvP, while this change is 100% neutral to PvE.
2. Solar Barrage - increased sunsphere buff from 5 to 10%. Developer comment: this little dmg buff will help melee templars a bit, while ranged templars using mostly crushing shock remain unchanged. Also for PvE this change is either minimal, or completely neutral, since almost nobody uses this skill in PvE.
3. Backlash - rather than increasing dmg by dmg done, now this skill will increase it's dmg by 10% every time you deal dmg, up to maximum 200%. Moreover it's dmg is increased by 5% to match other classes counterparts. Developer comment: it was too easy to counter this skill by just building tanky, or just blocking. This time you have to disengage, to avoid dmg. Also it was unfair, that skills with less effort (merciless resolve, crystal fragments) have higher base tooltip, so we increase it by 5%. Please note this change is neutral to PvE.
4. Living dark - cost reduced to 3000. Developer comment: currenly tempar is basically staying all the time within his healing runes, so we want to encourage them to move. With reducing cost, this skill will be more popular - currently structured entropy feels better than living dark. Please not this change is basically neutral to PvE.

Developer comment: I fell like this changes will make templar playable for PvP again, while they will be 100% neutral to PvE. Please note that many skills like sun shield should still be reworked, but I feel that above 4 points are crucial to make class working again.

Please let me know what you think.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · February 4

Templars did not need any changes, do you know how overpowered a skill Living Dark is?

Tyrant_Tim · February 4

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Templars did not need any changes…

Bad take, there are several playstyles not doing great on Templar right now, most notably support builds.

Vahndamme · February 4

While at it, change/tidy up some passives and dead skills/morphs.

Billium813 · February 5

Couple of changes I'd like to see to Templar's passives. More here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/646546/obligatory-templar-ideas

Templar
- Aedric Spear
  - Spear Wall (Passive)
    
    Upon activating an Aedric Spear ability. You and allies within 5 meters gain Minor Protection for 6 seconds, reducing damage taken by 5%.
    
    Developer Comment
    One pain point for Templar is that they don't provide enough utility in groups. It should be baked into the Templar class to protect allies near them. At the moment, non-Templars have access to Frost Impulse and Circle of Protection, Necros get Bone Totem, Wardens have Maturation. It seems safe to establish Minor Protection as a Templar group buff for nearby allies. Also, making it a small 5m AOE, instead of just all allies, helps to make multiple Templars worthwhile. Whether it be DPS spamming Jabs, Support launching Spear Shards, or Tanks using Sun Shield, allies should be rewarded for standing near their closest Templar ally with a wall of protective spears!
- Dawn's Wrath
  - Prism (Passive)
    
    When you cast a Dawn's Wrath ability, you and your group gain Minor Sorcery for 20 seconds, increasing your Spell Damage by 10%. If you are in combat, you also generate 3 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.
    
    Developer Comment
    This change brings Prism in line with Dragonknight's Mountain Blessing Passive. There's no reason a class should have 2 Passives that are functionally equivalent a single Passive another class has.
  - Illuminate (Passive)
    
    Reduce the damage you take from Area of Effect abilities by 15% while a Dawn's Wrath ability is active.
    
    Developer Comment
    Since the current Illuminate has now been combined with Prism, a new effect is needed for Illuminate. The Dawn's Wrath skill line is very DPS polarized, so I went with a defensive passive. I went with AoE damage reduction to work in tandem with Restoring Light's Sacred Ground identity and Templars overall Area Denial identity. With this design, Templars are not punished as harshly when AOEs are placed over they area the Templar has already chosen. This gives Templars an edge in competing AOE damage, as long as the Templar is utilizing their complete toolkit of Skills (Aedric Spear for Spear Wall, Restoring Light for Sacred Ground, and a ticking Dawn's Wrath ability).
- Restoring Light
  - Light Weaver (Passive)
    
    While in combat, whenever you heal an ally with a Restoring Light ability, you grant them 2 Ultimate every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
    
    Developer Comment
    As written, the condition of needing an ally to drop below 50% is far too harsh for the mediocre profit of 2 Ultimate. Also, dropping the special Rite of Passage interaction since it doesn't make any sense for this to be on a passive instead of just ON the Ultimate ability to begin with.
    
    For this passive, I wanted to create something that would work for all the skills in the Restoring Light Skill line. Restoring Light heals tend to be for large, one time burst heals: Repentance absorbing 10 corpses, Rushed Ceremony and Healing Ritual often being for over 10k health in one go. Even Rite of Passage tends to drop large heals that give no real benefit for overhealing by such a large margin. This design also works well with Cleansing Ritual as an AOE HOT. While the ally is in the Cleansing Ritual, they receive Ult generation as the timer auto updates on each 2 second heal if the ally is taking damage. If the enemy leaves the circle, then the timer can just run out and stop. This helps give a balance of returns between the expensive one time heals, and allies standing in the long duration AOE Extended Ritual.
    
    Additionally, notice that this design does not proc off overhealing. The ally needs to take damage and then be healed by a Restoring Light Skill. This can help increase the skill ceiling on this design since it doesn't reward allies just standing out of danger at range. It rewards allies that get in there and take damage, at least once per 6 seconds. On top of that, it incentivizes Templar Healers to spec more into Restoring Light Skills and less into generic skills. It gives them a REASON to make sure it's a Restoring Light Skill doing the healing.
  - Master Ritualist (Passive)
    
    Increase your Magicka Recovery by 129 for each Restoring Light ability slotted
    
    Developer Comment
    The current Master Ritualist design is just too 2014. A bit faster resurrection and Soul Gem interaction are almost totally useless. Kagrenac's Hope & Hanu's Compassion 5 piece bonuses are better AND still some of the worst effects in the game. It's just too sad to have a totally pointless passive in modern ESO design.
    
    I went with Magicka regen only, instead of including Stamina, due to the overwhelming Magicka costs in the Restoring Light Skill line. Magicka sustain is a common issue for Templar Tanking and Support as well; this is mostly due to the high Skill costs. Cleansing Ritual, Living Dark, Sun Shield end up dumping a lot of Magicka and even more if they have to be recast. Having Master Ritualist improve Magicka regen would really help Templar Support and is still worse then Wellspring of the Abyss...

Erickson9610 · February 5

Billium813 wrote: »

Couple of changes I'd like to see to Templar's passives. More here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/646546/obligatory-templar-ideas
Templar
Aedric Spear
Spear Wall (Passive)

Upon activating an Aedric Spear ability. You and allies within 5 meters gain Minor Protection for 6 seconds, reducing damage taken by 5%.

Developer Comment
One pain point for Templar is that they don't provide enough utility in groups. It should be baked into the Templar class to protect allies near them. At the moment, non-Templars have access to Frost Impulse and Circle of Protection, Necros get Bone Totem, Wardens have Maturation. It seems safe to establish Minor Protection as a Templar group buff for nearby allies. Also, making it a small 5m AOE, instead of just all allies, helps to make multiple Templars worthwhile. Whether it be DPS spamming Jabs, Support launching Spear Shards, or Tanks using Sun Shield, allies should be rewarded for standing near their closest Templar ally with a wall of protective spears!

Dawn's Wrath
Prism (Passive)

When you cast a Dawn's Wrath ability, you and your group gain Minor Sorcery for 20 seconds, increasing your Spell Damage by 10%. If you are in combat, you also generate 3 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

Developer Comment
This change brings Prism in line with Dragonknight's Mountain Blessing Passive. There's no reason a class should have 2 Passives that are functionally equivalent a single Passive another class has.

Illuminate (Passive)

Reduce the damage you take from Area of Effect abilities by 15% while a Dawn's Wrath ability is active.

Developer Comment
Since the current Illuminate has now been combined with Prism, a new effect is needed for Illuminate. The Dawn's Wrath skill line is very DPS polarized, so I went with a defensive passive. I went with AoE damage reduction to work in tandem with Restoring Light's Sacred Ground identity and Templars overall Area Denial identity. With this design, Templars are not punished as harshly when AOEs are placed over they area the Templar has already chosen. This gives Templars an edge in competing AOE damage, as long as the Templar is utilizing their complete toolkit of Skills (Aedric Spear for Spear Wall, Restoring Light for Sacred Ground, and a ticking Dawn's Wrath ability).

Restoring Light
Light Weaver (Passive)

While in combat, whenever you heal an ally with a Restoring Light ability, you grant them 2 Ultimate every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.

Developer Comment
As written, the condition of needing an ally to drop below 50% is far too harsh for the mediocre profit of 2 Ultimate. Also, dropping the special Rite of Passage interaction since it doesn't make any sense for this to be on a passive instead of just ON the Ultimate ability to begin with.

For this passive, I wanted to create something that would work for all the skills in the Restoring Light Skill line. Restoring Light heals tend to be for large, one time burst heals: Repentance absorbing 10 corpses, Rushed Ceremony and Healing Ritual often being for over 10k health in one go. Even Rite of Passage tends to drop large heals that give no real benefit for overhealing by such a large margin. This design also works well with Cleansing Ritual as an AOE HOT. While the ally is in the Cleansing Ritual, they receive Ult generation as the timer auto updates on each 2 second heal if the ally is taking damage. If the enemy leaves the circle, then the timer can just run out and stop. This helps give a balance of returns between the expensive one time heals, and allies standing in the long duration AOE Extended Ritual.

Additionally, notice that this design does not proc off overhealing. The ally needs to take damage and then be healed by a Restoring Light Skill. This can help increase the skill ceiling on this design since it doesn't reward allies just standing out of danger at range. It rewards allies that get in there and take damage, at least once per 6 seconds. On top of that, it incentivizes Templar Healers to spec more into Restoring Light Skills and less into generic skills. It gives them a REASON to make sure it's a Restoring Light Skill doing the healing.

Master Ritualist (Passive)

Increase your Magicka Recovery by 129 for each Restoring Light ability slotted

Developer Comment
The current Master Ritualist design is just too 2014. A bit faster resurrection and Soul Gem interaction are almost totally useless. Kagrenac's Hope & Hanu's Compassion 5 piece bonuses are better AND still some of the worst effects in the game. It's just too sad to have a totally pointless passive in modern ESO design.

I went with Magicka regen only, instead of including Stamina, due to the overwhelming Magicka costs in the Restoring Light Skill line. Magicka sustain is a common issue for Templar Tanking and Support as well; this is mostly due to the high Skill costs. Cleansing Ritual, Living Dark, Sun Shield end up dumping a lot of Magicka and even more if they have to be recast. Having Master Ritualist improve Magicka regen would really help Templar Support and is still worse then Wellspring of the Abyss...

I like the sound of these proposed changes, as they don't affect Templar Werewolf in the slightest, except the change to remove the resurrection bonus of Master Ritualist. The slightly faster resurrection speed and increased revived ally health bonuses are nice, especially in PvE, but I can understand why you'd want to remove it for something that benefits the human form playstyles.

As long as the Templar passives which don't require Templar abilities (Burning Light, Balanced Warrior, Restoring Spirit, and Master Ritualist) don't suddenly get ability requirements which would remove them from Templar Werewolf's toolkit, then I'm fine with those changes.

James-Wayne · February 5

Billium813 wrote: »

Couple of changes I'd like to see to Templar's passives. More here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/646546/obligatory-templar-ideas
Templar
Aedric Spear
Spear Wall (Passive)

Upon activating an Aedric Spear ability. You and allies within 5 meters gain Minor Protection for 6 seconds, reducing damage taken by 5%.

Developer Comment
One pain point for Templar is that they don't provide enough utility in groups. It should be baked into the Templar class to protect allies near them. At the moment, non-Templars have access to Frost Impulse and Circle of Protection, Necros get Bone Totem, Wardens have Maturation. It seems safe to establish Minor Protection as a Templar group buff for nearby allies. Also, making it a small 5m AOE, instead of just all allies, helps to make multiple Templars worthwhile. Whether it be DPS spamming Jabs, Support launching Spear Shards, or Tanks using Sun Shield, allies should be rewarded for standing near their closest Templar ally with a wall of protective spears!

Dawn's Wrath
Prism (Passive)

When you cast a Dawn's Wrath ability, you and your group gain Minor Sorcery for 20 seconds, increasing your Spell Damage by 10%. If you are in combat, you also generate 3 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

Developer Comment
This change brings Prism in line with Dragonknight's Mountain Blessing Passive. There's no reason a class should have 2 Passives that are functionally equivalent a single Passive another class has.

Illuminate (Passive)

Reduce the damage you take from Area of Effect abilities by 15% while a Dawn's Wrath ability is active.

Developer Comment
Since the current Illuminate has now been combined with Prism, a new effect is needed for Illuminate. The Dawn's Wrath skill line is very DPS polarized, so I went with a defensive passive. I went with AoE damage reduction to work in tandem with Restoring Light's Sacred Ground identity and Templars overall Area Denial identity. With this design, Templars are not punished as harshly when AOEs are placed over they area the Templar has already chosen. This gives Templars an edge in competing AOE damage, as long as the Templar is utilizing their complete toolkit of Skills (Aedric Spear for Spear Wall, Restoring Light for Sacred Ground, and a ticking Dawn's Wrath ability).

Restoring Light
Light Weaver (Passive)

While in combat, whenever you heal an ally with a Restoring Light ability, you grant them 2 Ultimate every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.

Developer Comment
As written, the condition of needing an ally to drop below 50% is far too harsh for the mediocre profit of 2 Ultimate. Also, dropping the special Rite of Passage interaction since it doesn't make any sense for this to be on a passive instead of just ON the Ultimate ability to begin with.

For this passive, I wanted to create something that would work for all the skills in the Restoring Light Skill line. Restoring Light heals tend to be for large, one time burst heals: Repentance absorbing 10 corpses, Rushed Ceremony and Healing Ritual often being for over 10k health in one go. Even Rite of Passage tends to drop large heals that give no real benefit for overhealing by such a large margin. This design also works well with Cleansing Ritual as an AOE HOT. While the ally is in the Cleansing Ritual, they receive Ult generation as the timer auto updates on each 2 second heal if the ally is taking damage. If the enemy leaves the circle, then the timer can just run out and stop. This helps give a balance of returns between the expensive one time heals, and allies standing in the long duration AOE Extended Ritual.

Additionally, notice that this design does not proc off overhealing. The ally needs to take damage and then be healed by a Restoring Light Skill. This can help increase the skill ceiling on this design since it doesn't reward allies just standing out of danger at range. It rewards allies that get in there and take damage, at least once per 6 seconds. On top of that, it incentivizes Templar Healers to spec more into Restoring Light Skills and less into generic skills. It gives them a REASON to make sure it's a Restoring Light Skill doing the healing.

Master Ritualist (Passive)

Increase your Magicka Recovery by 129 for each Restoring Light ability slotted

Developer Comment
The current Master Ritualist design is just too 2014. A bit faster resurrection and Soul Gem interaction are almost totally useless. Kagrenac's Hope & Hanu's Compassion 5 piece bonuses are better AND still some of the worst effects in the game. It's just too sad to have a totally pointless passive in modern ESO design.

I went with Magicka regen only, instead of including Stamina, due to the overwhelming Magicka costs in the Restoring Light Skill line. Magicka sustain is a common issue for Templar Tanking and Support as well; this is mostly due to the high Skill costs. Cleansing Ritual, Living Dark, Sun Shield end up dumping a lot of Magicka and even more if they have to be recast. Having Master Ritualist improve Magicka regen would really help Templar Support and is still worse then Wellspring of the Abyss...

Faulgor · February 5

Billium813 wrote: »

Couple of changes I'd like to see to Templar's passives. More here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/646546/obligatory-templar-ideas

[snip]

5 meters for Spear Wall honestly feels too small. You basically have to stand in each other's shoes for that to work. If I can't effectively use it in 4 man content, it might as well not exist. I'm not sure what a good number would be for trials to warrant multiple Templars, but the normal melee range of 7 meters doesn't seem outrageous to me.

We were also talking about other passives in another thread here, especially Enduring Rays. Compare it to DK's Searing Heat:

Searing Heat (Passive)

Increases the damage over time of your Fiery Breath, Searing Strike, and Dragonknight Standard abilities by 25% and the duration by 4 seconds.
Enduring Rays (Passive)

Increases the duration of your Sun Fire, Eclipse, Solar Flare, and Nova abilities by 2 seconds.

The DK passive has twice the duration increase and another damage buff on top - ignoring that simple duration increases are generally boring, how can this be justified?

Now, here's what I had in mind, although it might be controversial because it can significantly impact rotations and possibly DPS, but give it a thought.

Dawn's Wrath
- Enduring Rays (Passive)
  
  When you activate a channeled ability, increase the duration of your non-ultimate Damage and Healing over Time effects by 1 second.
  
  Developer Comment
  The previous iteration was behind similar passives of other classes, and didn't offer much in terms of impact. This change will help to alleviate some downsides of channeled abilities, strengthening Templars' identity as the channel-focused class, and offering some simpler rotation options. Jab jab jab!

MashmalloMan · February 5

VinnyGambini wrote: »

3. Backlash - rather than increasing dmg by dmg done, now this skill will increase it's dmg by 10% every time you deal dmg, up to maximum 200%.

This is actually a really good idea I'm surprised I didn't come up with earlier. Kudos.

20 ticks of damage shouldn't be too hard over 6s with how Jabs, weaving, Burning Light, and Status effects operate alone. Plus, any dots like Soul Barrage you have up. Now you can guarantee the damage by going full offensive instead of missing out on it just because your target mitigated too much of the build up. Should be able to hit that within 3-4s most of the time.

It keeps the original identity alive, without completely gutting it by guaranteeing it just for casting.

Gray_howling_parrot · February 5

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Templars did not need any changes, do you know how overpowered a skill Living Dark is?

Such a crazy take.

Templar supports (tank and healer) have been needing buffs for literally 10 years lol.

Billium813 · February 5

Faulgor wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Couple of changes I'd like to see to Templar's passives. More here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/646546/obligatory-templar-ideas

[snip]

5 meters for Spear Wall honestly feels too small. You basically have to stand in each other's shoes for that to work. If I can't effectively use it in 4 man content, it might as well not exist. I'm not sure what a good number would be for trials to warrant multiple Templars, but the normal melee range of 7 meters doesn't seem outrageous to me.

Increasing the proposed Spear Wall range from 5m -> 7m is a fair consideration. Sun Shield has a range of 5m, but Puncturing Strikes does have a range of 8m, plus they recently increased melee range from 5m to 7m. So, the suggestion makes sense, at least thematically.

I just always underestimate just how large 5m is in game though and have to remind myself. 9/10, you want the group to stick together and 5m isn't really stepping on toes, it's bigger then you think.

gariondavey · February 5

MashmalloMan wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

3. Backlash - rather than increasing dmg by dmg done, now this skill will increase it's dmg by 10% every time you deal dmg, up to maximum 200%.

This is actually a really good idea I'm surprised I didn't come up with earlier. Kudos.

20 ticks of damage shouldn't be too hard over 6s with how Jabs, weaving, Burning Light, and Status effects operate alone. Plus, any dots like Soul Barrage you have up. Now you can guarantee the damage by going full offensive instead of missing out on it just because your target mitigated too much of the build up. Should be able to hit that within 3-4s most of the time.

It keeps the original identity alive, without completely gutting it by guaranteeing it just for casting.

Yeah I actually quite like the suggestion as well. GJ @VinnyGambini

Zastrix · February 12

VinnyGambini wrote: »

1. Jabs - this ability single target dmg part is no longer mitigated by evasion buffs. Additionally, visuals are changed, to match other templar abilities like charge and javelin. Developer comment: jabs should not be countered so easy in PvP, while this change is 100% neutral to PvE.

Jabs isn't single target ability though. It is an AOE ability and thus should be affected by evasion buffs.

VinnyGambini · February 12

Zastrix wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

1. Jabs - this ability single target dmg part is no longer mitigated by evasion buffs. Additionally, visuals are changed, to match other templar abilities like charge and javelin. Developer comment: jabs should not be countered so easy in PvP, while this change is 100% neutral to PvE.

Jabs isn't single target ability though. It is an AOE ability and thus should be affected by evasion buffs.

So it can be reworked like "radial uppercut" skill itself is single target, but deals additional dmg AOE.

Also stop being delusional - AOE skill is crescent sweep - high dmg to ALL enemies in area. Jabs deal high dmg to ONLY ONE target. Calling it AOE is huge overstatement.

Moothos · February 13

Zastrix wrote: »

Jabs isn't single target ability though. It is an AOE ability and thus should be affected by evasion buffs.

Jabs isn't just single target or AOE. It has a single target component with damage in line with other single target spammable abilities, and an AOE component with damage in line with other AOE spammable abilities. Why should the single target component be affected by evasion, a buff which is designed to mitigate AOE damage? The biting jabs morph even distinguishes between the single target and AOE damage components by only buffing the AOE damage. But for some reason the damage that only affects a single target is also considered AOE damage and it doesn't make any sense.

Vahndamme · February 14

Moothos wrote: »

Zastrix wrote: »

Jabs isn't single target ability though. It is an AOE ability and thus should be affected by evasion buffs.

Jabs isn't just single target or AOE. It has a single target component with damage in line with other single target spammable abilities, and an AOE component with damage in line with other AOE spammable abilities. Why should the single target component be affected by evasion, a buff which is designed to mitigate AOE damage? The biting jabs morph even distinguishes between the single target and AOE damage components by only buffing the AOE damage. But for some reason the damage that only affects a single target is also considered AOE damage and it doesn't make any sense.

True, very true. Honestly I think since U35 they are clueless about templar and they don't even seem to care as there is 0 communication whatsoever. If there was at least some communication.. well that'd be great. Also I stick to it, adding Nighthollow Staff as the "new" spear in jabs is just.... urghh.. It doesn't have to be the old animation but not this weird one it is now either. Doesn't ZoS want to deliver a polished and well executed product? Well the animation shows how much they truly care it seems. Slap on Nighthollow, make it yellow and let it rip. It's like flurry animation, the sound totally off with the animation and it looks like there's some maniac running at you with 2 hands in the air waving at you. Like I dno...

CrazyKitty · February 14

Still not reverting the jabs animation then? Sad. Reverting the jabs animation will have no effect on the strength or weakness of templars. It would just make them look normal again in a fight instead of so wonky.

birdik · February 14

Nobody uses major evasion
Plars still crying

merpins · February 14

For me, just revert the jabs animation. In fact, revert it to how it was before U35, and then balance it from there if you have to. I have no intention of playing templar otherwise. The new animation blows.

Billium813 · February 14

birdik wrote: »

Nobody uses major evasion
Plars still crying

The gist of what you're saying is fine, but not entirely accurate.

Shuffle and Quick Cloak are two VERY popular defensive PvP Skills that give a very long Major Evasion duration. However, I will agree with you that Major Evasion isn't as common as some players want to make it out to be; because it isn't literally everywhere and requires some concession (Dual Wield and 5 Medium Armor pieces). This issue with Jabs isn't high on my todo list for Templar complaining.

VinnyGambini · February 14

Billium813 wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Nobody uses major evasion
Plars still crying

The gist of what you're saying is fine, but not entirely accurate.

Shuffle and Quick Cloak are two VERY popular defensive PvP Skills that give a very long Major Evasion duration. However, I will agree with you that Major Evasion isn't as common as some players want to make it out to be; because it isn't literally everywhere and requires some concession (Dual Wield and 5 Medium Armor pieces). This issue with Jabs isn't high on my todo list for Templar complaining.

Personally I play templar and I use major evasion, and it counters other templars HARD. Stop being delusional that nobody uses major evasion.

Billium813 · February 14

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Nobody uses major evasion
Plars still crying

The gist of what you're saying is fine, but not entirely accurate.

Shuffle and Quick Cloak are two VERY popular defensive PvP Skills that give a very long Major Evasion duration. However, I will agree with you that Major Evasion isn't as common as some players want to make it out to be; because it isn't literally everywhere and requires some concession (Dual Wield and 5 Medium Armor pieces). This issue with Jabs isn't high on my todo list for Templar complaining.

Personally I play templar and I use major evasion, and it counters other templars HARD. Stop being delusional that nobody uses major evasion.

What is your evidence that it was Major Evasion that single-handedly countered your Templar opponent "HARD"? Because you didn't die? Templar vs Templar accounts; you're looking at this thing in a vacuum and not looking at the bigger picture. Circumstantial, anecdotal evidence at best.

Meanwhile, DK builds aren't running Major Evasion, Sorcerer isn't running Major Evasion, Magicka builds aren't running Major Evasion...

It's like you didn't read my comment... I didn't say nobody uses Major Evasion! I know full well that Shuffle and Quick Cloak are popular! I'm saying that access to it is appropriately limited IMO (Dual Wield, 5 Medium Armor, Vamp, Nightblade, 5 piece sets) It's not used as widely as some players seem to THINK it is, but it's also not used by no one. It's just not as big of an issue IMO; there's more pressing matters to address with Templar.

gariondavey · February 15

birdik wrote: »

Nobody uses major evasion
Plars still crying

We playing the same game? Most people have major and minor evasion on them in a small scale to large scale setting.

IncultaWolf · February 15

Dekrypted wrote: »

birdik wrote: »

Nobody uses major evasion
Plars still crying

So uhh... Arcanists give... minor evasion and tons of people run major evasion.

Like.. even werewolves will slot Grace of Gloom because they don't have a hot and... *drumroll* the set gives major evasion

Facts, I use grace of gloom on a few of my werewolf builds for this exact reason

Billium813 · February 15

I just hear a bunch of people that love using Rock, complaining that Paper is OP. Not everyone uses Paper. It's ok that Paper exists.

The bigger issue is 'what is Scissors'? There isn't a balance. We have a named Buff (Evasion) that reduces AOE damage taken, but there's no Single Target Damage reduction buff. There's also no Debuff that increases AOE damage. Instead, we have named Debuffs that increase/reduce "Damage", which generically covers both types. The Venn diagram is out of balance.

VinnyGambini · February 15

Billium813 wrote: »

I just hear a bunch of people that love using Rock, complaining that Paper is OP. Not everyone uses Paper. It's ok that Paper exists.

The bigger issue is 'what is Scissors'? There isn't a balance. We have a named Buff (Evasion) that reduces AOE damage taken, but there's no Single Target Damage reduction buff. There's also no Debuff that increases AOE damage. Instead, we have named Debuffs that increase/reduce "Damage", which generically covers both types. The Venn diagram is out of balance.

Exactly my point. You want to counter templar? Just slot major evasion. Waht to counter nb, sorc, dk? What are your options really?

ChRiS_the_GaMeR · February 15

gariondavey wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

3. Backlash - rather than increasing dmg by dmg done, now this skill will increase it's dmg by 10% every time you deal dmg, up to maximum 200%.

This is actually a really good idea I'm surprised I didn't come up with earlier. Kudos.

20 ticks of damage shouldn't be too hard over 6s with how Jabs, weaving, Burning Light, and Status effects operate alone. Plus, any dots like Soul Barrage you have up. Now you can guarantee the damage by going full offensive instead of missing out on it just because your target mitigated too much of the build up. Should be able to hit that within 3-4s most of the time.

It keeps the original identity alive, without completely gutting it by guaranteeing it just for casting.

Yeah I actually quite like the suggestion as well. GJ @VinnyGambini

In theory I like the idea too but thinking about it you just would get the same problem as with master dw.
Meaning you would get easy acces to high dmg on high health set ups. At least that’s the reason why or better how they are changing master dw now.

Turtle_Bot · February 16

MashmalloMan wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

3. Backlash - rather than increasing dmg by dmg done, now this skill will increase it's dmg by 10% every time you deal dmg, up to maximum 200%.

This is actually a really good idea I'm surprised I didn't come up with earlier. Kudos.

20 ticks of damage shouldn't be too hard over 6s with how Jabs, weaving, Burning Light, and Status effects operate alone. Plus, any dots like Soul Barrage you have up. Now you can guarantee the damage by going full offensive instead of missing out on it just because your target mitigated too much of the build up. Should be able to hit that within 3-4s most of the time.

It keeps the original identity alive, without completely gutting it by guaranteeing it just for casting.

That is actually a really smart way of doing it @VinnyGambini props for that one

Syndem · February 16

merpins wrote: »

For me, just revert the jabs animation. In fact, revert it to how it was before U35, and then balance it from there if you have to. I have no intention of playing templar otherwise. The new animation blows.

+ 1, + 2, + 3, + Infinity !!!

Galeriano · February 16

MashmalloMan wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

3. Backlash - rather than increasing dmg by dmg done, now this skill will increase it's dmg by 10% every time you deal dmg, up to maximum 200%.

This is actually a really good idea I'm surprised I didn't come up with earlier. Kudos.

20 ticks of damage shouldn't be too hard over 6s with how Jabs, weaving, Burning Light, and Status effects operate alone. Plus, any dots like Soul Barrage you have up. Now you can guarantee the damage by going full offensive instead of missing out on it just because your target mitigated too much of the build up. Should be able to hit that within 3-4s most of the time.

It keeps the original identity alive, without completely gutting it by guaranteeing it just for casting.

The problem is 20 ticks of damage would be an issue with anything else other than jabs and crushing shock. So it makes all the spammables with single instance of dmg instantly way less viable. Like how would You like to create a combo with a flare for example.

mmtaniac · February 16

Something is needed jabs need to return to they former glory right now it just parody of old self. Your damage is lowest of the low in pvp , it's mitigated too much by something. Major evasion is just one thing ,maybe not always but still. Game have too much passive defense options right now and jabs feel just bad. We need something to make them viable.