Force players into something they absolutely HATE

Iuppiterr · February 3

So i have two points to say:

First: OP hates to do PVP i get that, but if you would read this forum thread alone you would have learned 3 easy ways to lvl the Skill lines without ever seeing some enemy players.

Second: How does it even come that players HATE PVP but they love raiding/dungeon progging where you lay in the dirt maybe 30% of the time aswell?

ZOS_Icy · February 3

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Aurielle · February 3

Aerin wrote: »

ZDunlain wrote: »

Imagine as a PvP player what we do in order to get equipment and leads... THATS RIGHT DUDE! PVE! All builds needs more or less PvE.
If I want the Undaunted passives, I need to do A LOT of PvE that I dont really care but the differenc3e is that I understand how trhe game is and don't complain.
If you are annoyed, just join a zerg and eazy way to get that done.

You enjoy PVP? Well, good for you, [snip].
You need to progress in PVE but despise PVP? Demand some damn changes. You find it utterly senseless to grind through PvP for your PVE build? Speak up and demand change.

You revel in the current system? Fantastic! [snip]

I detest it. I fail to comprehend why it's remotely enjoyable to coerce players into PVP or thrust them into PVP zones against their will.

I adore PVE. Do I demand to slay the hardest bosses with a single stroke? No. Where's the challenge in that?
You love PVP and relish obliterating noobs in a single blow? Great! [snip]

[edited for baiting]

[snip]

I really don’t get you guys. PVPers don’t particularly enjoy grinding out the Psijiic line, or grinding out Mage’s Guild. [snip]

As others have suggested, you can do PVE quests in Cyrodiil without having to fight anyone.

Also, what does this have to do with the PTS?

[edited for flaming & to remove quote]

Aurielle · February 3

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

Hmm how many times did I grind the psychic skill line just for race against time...and I am definitely not an overland content enjoyer.
Same goes for undaunted, but at least I can play a fake tank for that.
Oh and lets not forget whenever i need a set piece from a DLC dungeon...

A little of PvP...like getting rank 10 in the skill line for sure is less work than grinding psychic.

Exactly. During the New Life Festival, I spent the entire event doing something I dislike: grinding out Undaunted and levelling skill lines on four brand new alts. It was mind numbing, carrying DDs and fake healers who did less damage than me on full tank builds through stale content I’ve run hundreds of times in the past. I spent hours upon hours grinding out dolmens to level Fighter’s Guild, feeling like my eyeballs were going to shrivel up from boredom. But guess what? Now I’m done with all that, and can use those four new characters in Cyrodiil.

It’s difficult to make content that appeals to ALL kinds of players in an MMO. I don’t think that kind of MMO even exists. Sometimes we have to do things we don’t like to do the things we DO like. That’s just life.

SkaraMinoc · February 3

Make it so you can level up Fighters, Mages, Psijic, and Undaunted skill lines in PvP then we'll have a deal.

KlauthWarthog · February 3

The mayhem event is just around the corner. Stock up on repair kits and stonemason your way into the skills you want.

Dragonredux · February 3

You still get AP from completing a battleground match. Dedicate a day and just grit it out, the pain will be over eventually.

Aurielle · February 3

Dragonredux wrote: »

You still get AP from completing a battleground match. Dedicate a day and just grit it out, the pain will be over eventually.

Precisely. It's so easy. OP could sit in the middle of a BG and not do anything while watching something on Netflix and still get rewarded a decent chunk of AP for their complete lack of participation in the content. There is no other content in the game where that is possible. Try to do the same thing in a dungeon, and you'd get vote-kicked from the group. Try to do that at a dolmen, and the game will literally kill your character. After a day of passively completing BGs, boom, you've got your Vigor, got your Caltrops, got your Warhorn. This is a non-issue.

RoseTheSnowElf · February 3

@Aerin

1st off, if BG's is the only way you are doing ANY PvP, then I see why you are hating it so much. The PvP community is pretty small and the BG's community is even smaller and there are a whole host of things that come with that that can make it very un-enjoyable for someone who has absolutely no interest in PvP at all.

2nd, AP and EXP are two diff things. AP lvls the skill line and unlocks the skills. Once the skills are unlocked, just having the skill on your bar as you PvE lvls the skill itself. No more PvP required. (If you already know this, my apologies. But wanted to mention for clarification)

3rd, it would be so much easier and faster to lvl the skill lines to full in Cyro following zergs, zc call outs or getting picked up in a pug grp and following crown. Can lvl them up in a few days. Probably faster if you use a War Tort for 50% AP boost. I take my baby toons that I have no intention of PvPing with in to get the speed boost passive, just use a tort, do the intro quest and throw a couple of stones in a wall and I'm at rank 3 of the skill line.

4th, the Crown Store has the alliance skill line available for purchase just like other skill lines if you've maxed them out on a previous toon. Suffer through it once and never to do it again.

Edit: I'm going to clarify for pnt 2 that I'm pretty sure that is the case. Admittedly I personally don't use any of the alliance skills (even though I spend 90% of my time in Cyro) so I've not spent time lvling any specific skill.

But again, I really do think that going into Cyro, slapping on a war tort or even getting the alliance scrolls from the Crown Store and running around Cyro with a zerg or a pug grp would be a lot less frustrating for you than suffering through BGs... the queue wait alone is enough to drive someone crazy.

JanTanhide · February 3

I tend to agree but PVP doesn't bother me in a way that drives me nuts. It's just not what I want to do most of the time. I do level every character to at least level 5 or 6 in Assault and Support to unlock everything I use in PVE.

With that said there are some PVP aspects I do enjoy and right now it's BG's on my lowbie. I also farm Imperial City for Telvar on my Nightblades and avoid most players. It's fun sneaking around and killing NPCs without the enemy player seeing me.

Some really good PVPers have discovered me and killed me but it doesn't send me over the edge. It's a game. I'm getting better at PVP and learning how to survive in PVP land. Embrace it and have fun.

Also, one other thing. You can level one character to max in Assault and Support which doesn't take long. After that you can buy the skill line on other characters in the Crown store if you don't want to level a new character.

Reginald_leBlem · February 3

1) Zos isn't forcing you to do anything. Other players set the expectation that supports have Alliance war skills. You have a great deal of choice in the matter. You could chose to be a necro support (which rarely run an ultimate other than colo), you could run with groups who do not care about your ultimate, you could even branch out and play a dps spec. No one is forcing you to do anything, you are chosing to only play as a support in groups that require these specific ultimates.

2) Battlegrounds is LITERALLY the worst way to level these skills up, do anything else and I promise it will not be so bad.

freespirit · February 3

Bg's are really not the way to lvl Alliance skills.

Repairing keeps is a cheesy but proven way to do this though!

You don't even need AP to buy the repair kits as they are available for gold too.

Over the years I have also noticed that in Grayhost where the map can change fast, people often don't bother with repairs.....

I have on occasion been repairing one side of a keep, as the other side is being attacked!! 🤣

Make the most of Mayhem's increased AP and if you can also hit a campaign where your Alliance has a low population bonus then the AP you can earn from repairs is quite staggering!!

xDeusEJRx · February 3

If you don't want to pvp, you're not forced to go into PVP and get these skills, but if you absolutely need these skills then suck it up and join a zerg, get on siege and defend keeps for a few hours, it's a good way to make AP while doing minimal PVP.

It's ludicrous expecting to get stuff for free just because you "want to" and not because you want to actually engage in the content associated with it. If you don't want to, no one's forcing you to except for yourself.

tincanman · February 3

There's a 150k Ap in daily rewards this month - enough to get one character to close to AR 6 (caltrops, barrier, war-horn[4]).

With whitestrakes event incoming that's double AP - a few BG or one decent zerg in cyro and your AR 6 is done.

Otherwise, repair walls in cyro - kill a delve boss in cyro for +20% ap gain for an hour, use healers' habit set (or other source of minor/major mending), powered resto staff and buy repair kits with gold.

tincanman · February 3

LukosCreyden wrote: »

This post feels cozy and nostalgic.
Reminds me of the old vigor grind.

Yep, these kids today have no idea how lucky they are - try to tell them that vigor used to be top of the Alliance Rank skill tree and they won't believe you, nope.

/s

SaffronCitrusflower · February 3

Aerin wrote: »

[snip]

I freakin' need to level up my skills, Horn and Barrier. I know damn well I'll need these skills for my PVE-only playstyle, but guess what? I'm forced to dive headfirst into PVP for this garbage. I loathe PVP, I mean, I seriously, really, utterly hate PVP in ESO. You have no freakin' clue how this crap drives me up the wall, and I'm itching to unleash a whole string of expletives because of it.

Put an end to this madness, [snip]! This isn't fun for those of us who abso-freakin'-lutely HATE PVP. Sure, some folks might enjoy it, whatever! But for the rest of us, we're livid. Stop this insanity, for the love of all that's holy!!!!! We need some other damn way to acquire those skills without having to endure PVP. We couldn't care less about PVP; we despise it, but we damn well need those skills.

EDIT:
I'm stuck doing these damn battlegrounds every single day, just hoping to get EXP. But here's the kicker: My team has to be TOP1 or TOP2 to even stand a chance at getting the experience. Are you kidding me? STOP THIS [snip] MADNESS! It's driving me insane!

[snip]
[edited for bashing & profanity bypass]

Just think how unhappy you'd be if PvP was your thing and people kept coming on these forums making posts about PvE like the one you just made about PvP. Personally I am not into casual questing or PvE at all except to grind out the gear I need for PvP. To me PvE is mostly boring, non competitive and highly repetitive. The fun part of the game is the challenging parts of the game, specifically Cyrodiil PvP and vet trials. And don't even get me started on ToT, good grief. Virtually everything ZOS does in the last few years has been catering to the casual PvE crowd. You should be ecstatic about the direction the game is going, not complaining.

tsaescishoeshiner · February 3

I think you get AP (therefore Alliance Rank and skill rank) even if your team comes in third place, according to UESP. What only the top two teams get is the experience bonus.

xiphactinus · February 4

I think folk take pvp way too personally.

RetPing · February 4

xiphactinus wrote: »

I think folk take pvp way too personally.

The one that take it very personally are PvErs that for some reason are afraid if their pixels are killed by the pixels controlled by another human.

xiphactinus · February 5

RetPing wrote: »

xiphactinus wrote: »

I think folk take pvp way too personally.

The one that take it very personally are PvErs that for some reason are afraid if their pixels are killed by the pixels controlled by another human.

For sure, It took me a while to try pvp and its by far (when it works) the most fun to be had because it is another soul on the other end and not an npc.

Estin · February 5

The alliance skill line is super easy to level up. Just toss on some healing skills, buy some siege, and join zergs defending or attacking keeps/outposts in cyrodiil. Siege and healing carries zergs, and healing zergs will net you AP whenever they kill somebody. Battlegrounds is the worst way to do it if you're a PvE'er. Take some time to read into how the game mode works and you'll have a lot less frustration with it.

Ye_Olde_Crowe · February 5

I think I remember getting the necessary points for those skills just by doing the intro Cyro quest (where you don‘t meet a single enemy), and then repair stuff and do the scouting quests from the message board. Scouting is a pretty lonely business; you can do so many scouting quests in one day and still not meet anybody.

Major_Toughness · February 5

Aerin wrote: »

PVP IS SO FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just cut the crap of needing to be TOP1 or TOP2 to complete my damn daily battleground. Get rid of this nonsense

The daily battleground quest has no bearing on how fast your level up the Assault and Support line, than is purely based on Alliance Point gains.

You get like 7k AP for coming last place and less than double that for coming first. There is literally no incentive to win BGs.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · February 5

You can participate in PVE activities to gain AP in Cyrodiil and Imperial City. In Cyrodiil you can also get an AP buff by killing a delve boss. This will stack with the ap food / scroll from crown store. (Town quests, scouting quests, resource captures). You also only have to be 'in the area' when keeps are flipped to gain the offensive tick so you can just wait in stealth and run into range when you see the flags turning.

As many others have posted many pvp players wish they didn't have to do pve activities to gain access to skills or gear they want. It's just the nature of most MMOs that sometimes you have to do activities you don't want to so as to gain things do you do want.

Vulkunne · February 5

There is a sunny side and a more aggressive side to PvP.

Just going in there with no thought as to the time of day or reading the map, you're going to get in trouble real quick. If your alliance holds the map, good time to jump in and knock out town quests, with discretion.

If its prime time or late at night, might want to stay out of BGs or Cyrodiil.

Coerfroid · February 5

Players may have different preferences regarding playstyle or game modes and it is understandable that some players prfer one mode so much over the other that they can't really enjoy the other part of the game. Hate is a strong word, but I feel that OP is frustrated.
On the other hand, I know a lot of players that enjoy both parts of the game (still having preferences tbf). Certain mechanics encourage players to engage in activities that do not seem attractive to them at first glance. Maybe first glance turns out to be true, maybe you find out "that stuff" can actually be fun if done with friends.
I think, the highest requirement for PvP skills useful in PvE is barrier, which requires support rank 6 (188000 AP). Apart from login rewards, event bonusses and tutorial quests, there is maybe a bit of repair work, scouting or town missions to be done, but that can be accomplished with minimum enemy contact.

With the Whitestrake event just ahead, there will be the usual discussions about "being forced to do pvp to earn rewards" and "those pve noobs spoiling cyro for the pros".
Relax. Games are meant to be fun. Try an open and cheerful approach. And if it does not work out, you won't need every single ticket and reward to enjoy the game. But at least give yoursef the chance to discover "Hey, it's not so bad after all".

dinokstrunz · February 5

boohoo
Just get on with it, PvP isn't that scary thanks to so much free damage they give you these days. Tag some players follow a group bam you got your skills in no time at all. Nothing scary about participating in PvP.

festegios · February 5

You know you still get ap even if you loose in battlegrounds. Not as much as winning, but still 🤷‍♂️

I’ll assume your on a tank or healer as your wanting barrier etc. so just pretend those pesky pvp players are just dungeon mobs.

StShoot · February 5

Aerin wrote: »

PVP IS SO FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just cut the crap of needing to be TOP1 or TOP2 to complete my damn daily battleground. Get rid of this nonsense

Completing the daily doesnt actual help you to advance the skillline, you need ap for it. And you can get enough ap without having to face an enemy player even once. Just port around cyro and repair walls and gates. Or stay on top of the spawn in a bg and wait, because for whatever reason ZoS decided to give 7k ap even to the 3. team. With the moras whisper mythic shoulder and the Molten War Torte Zos even added 2 things to accelerate the process. Will that be fast or fun ? No but if you want to get your skills faster than you have to engage in pvp.

Btw here is a little comparison of things PvPers need to grind in PvE vs. What PvE players need from PvP

PvE:
-2 Skilllines
-occasionally A lead
-sometimes a set piece (which can be bought for gold)

PvP:
-4-5 skilllines (depending on what your build needs) excluding alchemie
-Grinding Potion ingredients (which can be bought for gold)
-Grinding Setpieces (which cant be bought for gold)
-> Getting Monsterpieces, which require you to complete dungeons atleast on Vet
-Farming skyshards/skillpoints
-Farming Leads every 6 month for the newest FOTM Mythic

So to answer your your Question: Does ZoS force players to do stuff they hate ? Sure. Is that a good thing ? Yes because i know plenty of players who tried pvp because of this and stayed because they liked it, i also know some pvp players who started to enjoy PvE. Motivating Players to come out of their comfort zone to do diffrent content is healthy for the game.

Billium813 · February 5

Soarora wrote: »

To be honest, I think the worst thing is that tanks and healers specifically need it. DPSing in PvP is one thing, healing, even. But tanking? Man, I was having 7+ minute fights for my life with NPCs in Cyrodiil on a tank. Not a PvP tank so can't even live against other players. Feelsbad.

I think it'd be interesting if ZOS expanded on Taunts in PvP.

But really, the lesson is that you need a group in PvP if you're gonna Tank.