Force players into something they absolutely HATE

OolongSnakeTea · February 5

Double AP/25% AP/ Wartort are just bandaids on a bigger gushing wound for the need to PVP grind on Tanks/healers- and this is something about class ultimates, and the lack of other ultimate options that give impact the wat warhorn and barrier does.

This is -combat feed back- ultimately, as ultimates are an aspect of combat game play. And being forced to PVP to unlock a move to use for combat in the PVE sandbox is a garbage feeling each and everytime I roll up a new tank or healer.

FoJul · February 5

Soarora wrote: »

To be honest, I think the worst thing is that tanks and healers specifically need it. DPSing in PvP is one thing, healing, even. But tanking? Man, I was having 7+ minute fights for my life with NPCs in Cyrodiil on a tank. Not a PvP tank so can't even live against other players. Feelsbad.

If anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate it, need one more level...

Join a zerg

CameraBeardThePirate · February 5

OolongSnakeTea wrote: »

Double AP/25% AP/ Wartort are just bandaids on a bigger gushing wound for the need to PVP grind on Tanks/healers- and this is something about class ultimates, and the lack of other ultimate options that give impact the wat warhorn and barrier does.

This is -combat feed back- ultimately, as ultimates are an aspect of combat game play. And being forced to PVP to unlock a move to use for combat in the PVE sandbox is a garbage feeling each and everytime I roll up a new tank or healer.

PvPers have to farm PvE for literally everything - that feels just as "garbage".

It takes maybe 8 hours of Zerg surfing to get to Assault/Support 6. Throw on a resto staff and follow the crowd and you can have it done in a week with minimal time put in per day.

ZOS_Icy · February 5

Greetings,

We have removed some insulting back and forth that was disruptive. Please ensure you are treating others with respect on the forums even when they have views that differ from your own.

Thank you for your understanding.

OolongSnakeTea · February 5

FoJul wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

To be honest, I think the worst thing is that tanks and healers specifically need it. DPSing in PvP is one thing, healing, even. But tanking? Man, I was having 7+ minute fights for my life with NPCs in Cyrodiil on a tank. Not a PvP tank so can't even live against other players. Feelsbad.

If anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate it, need one more level...

Join a zerg

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

OolongSnakeTea wrote: »

Double AP/25% AP/ Wartort are just bandaids on a bigger gushing wound for the need to PVP grind on Tanks/healers- and this is something about class ultimates, and the lack of other ultimate options that give impact the wat warhorn and barrier does.

This is -combat feed back- ultimately, as ultimates are an aspect of combat game play. And being forced to PVP to unlock a move to use for combat in the PVE sandbox is a garbage feeling each and everytime I roll up a new tank or healer.

PvPers have to farm PvE for literally everything - that feels just as "garbage".

It takes maybe 8 hours of Zerg surfing to get to Assault/Support 6. Throw on a resto staff and follow the crowd and you can have it done in a week with minimal time put in per day.

Thats not the point. The point is that the choices for the ultimates are not good options for PVE sandbox.

Aldoss · February 5

OolongSnakeTea wrote: »

Double AP/25% AP/ Wartort are just bandaids on a bigger gushing wound for the need to PVP grind on Tanks/healers- and this is something about class ultimates, and the lack of other ultimate options that give impact the wat warhorn and barrier does.

This is -combat feed back- ultimately, as ultimates are an aspect of combat game play. And being forced to PVP to unlock a move to use for combat in the PVE sandbox is a garbage feeling each and everytime I roll up a new tank or healer.

Undaunted Mettle is one of the single best universal passives in the game, and yet, PvPers are FORCED to do dungeons in order to get to level 8.

The entitlement in some of these posts is unreal.

ZOS should just make every item set available to everyone, right away, and everyone should be max level, right away, and all skills should be available, right away...

Something, something, not the destination, something, something, the friends we made along the way...

Aurielle · February 5

OolongSnakeTea wrote: »

Double AP/25% AP/ Wartort are just bandaids on a bigger gushing wound for the need to PVP grind on Tanks/healers- and this is something about class ultimates, and the lack of other ultimate options that give impact the wat warhorn and barrier does.

This is -combat feed back- ultimately, as ultimates are an aspect of combat game play. And being forced to PVP to unlock a move to use for combat in the PVE sandbox is a garbage feeling each and everytime I roll up a new tank or healer.

Every time I want to roll up a new character for Cyrodiil, I have to spend days levelling Undaunted, days/weeks grinding gear, days/weeks grinding Mage’s Guild/Fighter’s Guild/Psiijic, skyshards, weapon lines, armor lines, etc.

You guys just have to grind out two skill lines in PVP (and you don’t even have to grind it out all the way), and this can be done in a day if you follow a zerg with an AP buff. The two grinds don’t even begin to compare.

This is an MMO. The devs of any MMO want players to engage in all the content. That’s why they lock leads behind ToT, why they lock gear that’s good for PVP behind PVE content, and why they lock skills that are good for PVE behind PVP content. Please just accept it, like PVPers accept that they have to do PVE content.

OolongSnakeTea · February 5

Aldoss wrote: »

OolongSnakeTea wrote: »

Double AP/25% AP/ Wartort are just bandaids on a bigger gushing wound for the need to PVP grind on Tanks/healers- and this is something about class ultimates, and the lack of other ultimate options that give impact the wat warhorn and barrier does.

This is -combat feed back- ultimately, as ultimates are an aspect of combat game play. And being forced to PVP to unlock a move to use for combat in the PVE sandbox is a garbage feeling each and everytime I roll up a new tank or healer.

Undaunted Mettle is one of the single best universal passives in the game, and yet, PvPers are FORCED to do dungeons in order to get to level 8.

The entitlement in some of these posts is unreal.

ZOS should just make every item set available to everyone, right away, and everyone should be max level, right away, and all skills should be available, right away...

Something, something, not the destination, something, something, the friends we made along the way...

Seperate point, same problem.
Players who like one sandbox should not be forced to play another. It is bad game design.

Aurielle · February 5

OolongSnakeTea wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

OolongSnakeTea wrote: »

Double AP/25% AP/ Wartort are just bandaids on a bigger gushing wound for the need to PVP grind on Tanks/healers- and this is something about class ultimates, and the lack of other ultimate options that give impact the wat warhorn and barrier does.

This is -combat feed back- ultimately, as ultimates are an aspect of combat game play. And being forced to PVP to unlock a move to use for combat in the PVE sandbox is a garbage feeling each and everytime I roll up a new tank or healer.

Undaunted Mettle is one of the single best universal passives in the game, and yet, PvPers are FORCED to do dungeons in order to get to level 8.

The entitlement in some of these posts is unreal.

ZOS should just make every item set available to everyone, right away, and everyone should be max level, right away, and all skills should be available, right away...

Something, something, not the destination, something, something, the friends we made along the way...

Seperate point, same problem.
Players who like one sandbox should not be forced to play another. It is bad game design.

Bad game design? What you’re proposing would completely divide the player base into two isolated silos. How is that healthy for the game? You might as well be running two different games at that point.

CameraBeardThePirate · February 5

OolongSnakeTea wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

OolongSnakeTea wrote: »

Double AP/25% AP/ Wartort are just bandaids on a bigger gushing wound for the need to PVP grind on Tanks/healers- and this is something about class ultimates, and the lack of other ultimate options that give impact the wat warhorn and barrier does.

This is -combat feed back- ultimately, as ultimates are an aspect of combat game play. And being forced to PVP to unlock a move to use for combat in the PVE sandbox is a garbage feeling each and everytime I roll up a new tank or healer.

Undaunted Mettle is one of the single best universal passives in the game, and yet, PvPers are FORCED to do dungeons in order to get to level 8.

The entitlement in some of these posts is unreal.

ZOS should just make every item set available to everyone, right away, and everyone should be max level, right away, and all skills should be available, right away...

Something, something, not the destination, something, something, the friends we made along the way...

Seperate point, same problem.
Players who like one sandbox should not be forced to play another. It is bad game design.

Games, and especially MMOs, are designed to get you to sink time in. Grinding stuff is part of the DNA of an MMO.

It's in ZOS' best interest to force players to interact with as much of the game as possible. That includes PvE, PvP, Crafting, Dailies, Quests, everything. They aren't going to make it so that you never have to step out of your comfort zone.

Besides, as nearly everyone in this post has already stated, the amount of time you have to actually spend PvPing as a PvE-er is miniscule compared to the amount of time PvP-ers have to spend PvE-ing. It's part of the game. Start Zerg surfing and you'll be done with the "grind" in a matter of hours.

NordSwordnBoard · February 5

OolongSnakeTea wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

OolongSnakeTea wrote: »

Double AP/25% AP/ Wartort are just bandaids on a bigger gushing wound for the need to PVP grind on Tanks/healers- and this is something about class ultimates, and the lack of other ultimate options that give impact the wat warhorn and barrier does.

This is -combat feed back- ultimately, as ultimates are an aspect of combat game play. And being forced to PVP to unlock a move to use for combat in the PVE sandbox is a garbage feeling each and everytime I roll up a new tank or healer.

Undaunted Mettle is one of the single best universal passives in the game, and yet, PvPers are FORCED to do dungeons in order to get to level 8.

The entitlement in some of these posts is unreal.

ZOS should just make every item set available to everyone, right away, and everyone should be max level, right away, and all skills should be available, right away...

Something, something, not the destination, something, something, the friends we made along the way...

Seperate point, same problem.
Players who like one sandbox should not be forced to play another. It is bad game design.

This is this game's design for the last ten years. There's conveniences offered in the crown store - so you can work an extra shift at work for more crowns, or grind PvE gold to trade for crowns. Yes, they force you through the content once. After a decade though, it's kind of unbelievable people jump into this game ignorant of such obstacles to their own enjoyment.

frogthroat · February 6

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

After a decade though, it's kind of unbelievable people jump into this game ignorant of such obstacles to their own enjoyment.

Everything else, yes, you need to grind it once and then you can use crowns or pay another player in in-game gold. But I think being ignorant in both how this game works and MMOs in general is not surprising when it comes to this game. For example for me this is the first online game I play. I come from single player background and got this game a few years ago just because I ran out of new Bethesda games to play and ESO was on discount. I researched it just enough to find out I can play this mostly as a solo and got the game. I had no knowledge of this game beyond that. I would have not even known what to look for since I have not played a single MMO before this game.

And I am not alone in this. I have met many other players who also come to this game because they like The Elder Scrolls series in general and for a surprisingly many this is the first MMO. Sure, now I know a lot about this game, but if you don't have any experience in MMOs or any other online games, you don't even know what questions you should be asking to find out more before actually playing.

But otherwise, yes, if you want it you only need to do it once. I know buying crowns is not for everyone and many people don't like the crown store in principle, but it comes to time vs money. Spend your time or spend your money. Which do you have more of?

Galeriano · February 14

Aerin wrote: »

PVP IS SO FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just cut the crap of needing to be TOP1 or TOP2 to complete my damn daily battleground. Get rid of this nonsense

But why daily BG reward even brothers You if You just want to get horn and barrier? You don't need to be in 1st or 2nd team to get alliance points that level up Your alliance war skill lines. Every team is rewarded with AP at the end You just get a bit more by being better team and daily BG reward is basically 100k XP for being in 1st or 2nd team and 30k for being in 3rd team. So it's just 70k XP difference, that's barely anything. That XP doesn't count for getting barrier and horn so why does it matter to You?

RetPing · February 14

When I read post like this and think how much time I had to spend doing dumb and boring map trips to unlock accelerate on all my PvP char I dont know if I want to cry or laugh.

Zama666 · July 14

I use to hate PvP Cyrodiil.
Now I love it.
Did way too much PVE.

Imperial City, BGs, Trials, i have zero interest.... FOR NOW.
I will go there.

Any equipment, skills, doodahs, i can't get, i find another way..

I get the OP. It is frustrating. Channel your anger. Use Deadly Strikes. Ok, that was not a good pun.

BananaBender · July 14

I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds it miserable to level PvP just because they decided to put bunch of vital PvE skills behind that skill line. This is exceptionally annoying on tanks and healers.

Just to prove my point, here is a list of the skills and which roles has use for it in PvE.
Assault
Horn - Mandatory on healers and tanks
Rapid Maneuver - Used on tanks
Vigor - Mandatory for all roles
Caltrops - Mandatory on tanks and good on DDs
Magicka Detonation - Good on DDs

Support
Barrier - Mandatory on healers and good on tanks
Siege shield - Okay this one is pretty much useless in PvE
Purge - Mandatory on healers
Guard - Good on all roles (depending on class)
Flare - Mandatory on tanks

I feel like most of these skills are used more in PvE than they are in PvP, so they just feel super out of place.
[Edit: I forgot to make my point]

LittlePinkDot · July 14

Aerin wrote: »

[snip]

I freakin' need to level up my skills, Horn and Barrier. I know damn well I'll need these skills for my PVE-only playstyle, but guess what? I'm forced to dive headfirst into PVP for this garbage. I loathe PVP, I mean, I seriously, really, utterly hate PVP in ESO. You have no freakin' clue how this crap drives me up the wall, and I'm itching to unleash a whole string of expletives because of it.

Put an end to this madness, [snip]! This isn't fun for those of us who abso-freakin'-lutely HATE PVP. Sure, some folks might enjoy it, whatever! But for the rest of us, we're livid. Stop this insanity, for the love of all that's holy!!!!! We need some other damn way to acquire those skills without having to endure PVP. We couldn't care less about PVP; we despise it, but we damn well need those skills.

EDIT:
I'm stuck doing these damn battlegrounds every single day, just hoping to get EXP. But here's the kicker: My team has to be TOP1 or TOP2 to even stand a chance at getting the experience. Are you kidding me? STOP THIS [snip] MADNESS! It's driving me insane!

[snip]
[edited for bashing & profanity bypass]

Then give me access to trial/arena gear without having to do trials/arena and we'll call it even.

Jaimeh · July 14

If you don't want to level the skills normally (and there are a lot of buffs nowadays that make this faster), you can buy them from the crown store. Like everything in the game if you find a skill worthwhile you have to put in the effort to get it, but ZOS cannot cater to every playstyle. It's like saying that just because there's someone who only likes to do decorating they should earn everything via housing. Come on.

xylena_lazarow · July 15

OP is right, they should never have to PvP for their stuff, and I should never have to PvE for mine, deal?

ZOS should to take a cue from Warframe's success. You can grind, or you can pay cash to skip the grind.

Poss · July 15

Aerin wrote: »

[snip]

I freakin' need to level up my skills, Horn and Barrier. I know damn well I'll need these skills for my PVE-only playstyle, but guess what? I'm forced to dive headfirst into PVP for this garbage.

lol the average entitled PvEer

Don’t want to run warhorn, run Saxhleels instead. Too lazy to grind barrier, guess what…theres alternatives out there.

You can gain AP so easily nowadays. Zerg surf, do quests like the repeatable scouting quests. It really isn’t that hard

BananaBender · July 15

Poss wrote: »

Aerin wrote: »

[snip]

I freakin' need to level up my skills, Horn and Barrier. I know damn well I'll need these skills for my PVE-only playstyle, but guess what? I'm forced to dive headfirst into PVP for this garbage.

lol the average entitled PvEer

Don’t want to run warhorn, run Saxhleels instead. Too lazy to grind barrier, guess what…theres alternatives out there.

You can gain AP so easily nowadays. Zerg surf, do quests like the repeatable scouting quests. It really isn’t that hard

I don't think having to play PvP is a problem for the casual player, or anyone with 1-5 characters, but saying that you can replace horn or barrier in any organized content is just stupid. Saxhleel gives the Major Force buff yes, but not the resource buff, which is way stronger than a lot of people give it credit for. Saxhleel is also only usable by certain classes who have ultimates that provide something else to the group (Necro with colossus). Barrier is by far the best support ultimate which returns ultimate to you after using it. Meaning in fights where you don't generate enough ultimate to use Pillager on cooldown barrier is a must have.

Again, I know that this doesn't affect the vast majority of the player base, but for us who have to have healers and tanks in almost all classes, having to farm the PvP ranks takes by far the most time in the levelling process and it's not even close.

BananaBender · July 15

The change I would like to see is to move these clearly more PvE focused skills away from the PvP skill lines, and give the skill line some skills that are actually usable in PvP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone is using Guard, Horn or Caltrops in PvP.

darvaria · July 15

OMG just BUY Alliance War skills ............

And then level up anywhere.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 15

BananaBender wrote: »

The change I would like to see is to move these clearly more PvE focused skills away from the PvP skill lines, and give the skill line some skills that are actually usable in PvP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone is using Guard, Horn or Caltrops in PvP.

None of the skills in Assault/Support are "clearly more PvE focused". That's a completely baseless statement, as every single one of the skills in those lines either is or has been part of the PvP meta at some point.

darvaria · July 15

Save up the gold and buy the Crown Package. It's only 3k crowns. ESO has got to be the only game anywhere where you can max out every PVP skill and never set foot in PVP.

Daily dungeon 100K exp. Or just go to Spell Car or doing that boring loop of Doleman's in Alik'r Desert. You just slot the skills you don't have to use them. Or stand at one and watch Netflix. You literally have to do nothing to raise skills. Just have them slotted and stand and get in one hit.

Spend the time farming gold to buy the skill line ........... If I don't want to do something, I just buy the skill lines. ZOS has made this as easy as possible.

DrNukenstein · July 15

I did Fang Lair and Bedlam Veil til my thumbs broke. You can do a little pvp.

BananaBender · July 15

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

The change I would like to see is to move these clearly more PvE focused skills away from the PvP skill lines, and give the skill line some skills that are actually usable in PvP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone is using Guard, Horn or Caltrops in PvP.

None of the skills in Assault/Support are "clearly more PvE focused". That's a completely baseless statement, as every single one of the skills in those lines either is or has been part of the PvP meta at some point.

Alright, I take my statement back then. Though I still would prefer all the PvE required skills to be accessible without having to play PvP, but now I have no basis for my wishes. Oh well.

BananaBender · July 15

darvaria wrote: »

Save up the gold and buy the Crown Package. It's only 3k crowns. ESO has got to be the only game anywhere where you can max out every PVP skill and never set foot in PVP.

Daily dungeon 100K exp. Or just go to Spell Car or doing that boring loop of Doleman's in Alik'r Desert. You just slot the skills you don't have to use them. Or stand at one and watch Netflix. You literally have to do nothing to raise skills. Just have them slotted and stand and get in one hit.

Spend the time farming gold to buy the skill line ........... If I don't want to do something, I just buy the skill lines. ZOS has made this as easy as possible.

You have to have the skill line maxed out before you can buy it, so no, you can't get it without setting a foot in PvP. And also, 3000 crowns is way too expensive for a skill line that annoying to grind and it's not "only 3k crowns".

Bammlschwamml · July 15

Aerin wrote: »

[snip]

I freakin' need to level up my skills, Horn and Barrier. I know damn well I'll need these skills for my PVE-only playstyle, but guess what? I'm forced to dive headfirst into PVP for this garbage. I loathe PVP, I mean, I seriously, really, utterly hate PVP in ESO. You have no freakin' clue how this crap drives me up the wall, and I'm itching to unleash a whole string of expletives because of it.

Put an end to this madness, [snip]! This isn't fun for those of us who abso-freakin'-lutely HATE PVP. Sure, some folks might enjoy it, whatever! But for the rest of us, we're livid. Stop this insanity, for the love of all that's holy!!!!! We need some other damn way to acquire those skills without having to endure PVP. We couldn't care less about PVP; we despise it, but we damn well need those skills.

EDIT:
I'm stuck doing these damn battlegrounds every single day, just hoping to get EXP. But here's the kicker: My team has to be TOP1 or TOP2 to even stand a chance at getting the experience. Are you kidding me? STOP THIS [snip] MADNESS! It's driving me insane!

[snip]
[edited for bashing & profanity bypass]

Are you talking about playing parts of a video game you don't enjoy, or are you talking about war and murder? English is not my first language, but it feels like you are using very strong words here. I honestly can't imagine what's going to happen when you find out what those words actually mean.

Araneae6537 · July 15

Aurielle wrote: »

Dragonredux wrote: »

You still get AP from completing a battleground match. Dedicate a day and just grit it out, the pain will be over eventually.

Precisely. It's so easy. OP could sit in the middle of a BG and not do anything while watching something on Netflix and still get rewarded a decent chunk of AP for their complete lack of participation in the content. There is no other content in the game where that is possible. Try to do the same thing in a dungeon, and you'd get vote-kicked from the group. Try to do that at a dolmen, and the game will literally kill your character. After a day of passively completing BGs, boom, you've got your Vigor, got your Caltrops, got your Warhorn. This is a non-issue.

Please do not encourage that. If you’re going to participate in a Battleground, you need to do your best to participate. I don’t care if you’re bad at it, but try. Hanging out at the spawn point, spending maximum time dead, basically doing all you can to deliberately contribute nothing, is extremely disrespectful to the other participants and should be against ToS.