I DON'T want to see other players in instanced dungeons, caves, houses or rooms while questing!

Gaudrath

The problem here is that Zenimax did not implement any of their vaunted megaserver instancing options.

You don't get a nice check list of options to pick and choose and tell the megaserver how it should instance you - something they bragged about during development.

Those options would pretty much solve all these problems. People who like to solo dungeons would be able to pick that option and have a private instance created just for them every time they entered a cave or a house. People who prefer to do that content with other players would be able to pick that.

Instead we have a mess here. From a gameplay design perspective it is painfully clear those solo dungeons were NOT designed for multiple players. The pacing is all wrong. Do you enjoy two second, zero challenge fights? Boss monologues getting interrupted because they got instagibbed by a dozen players?

Well I don't. I like to experience my quests properly. I actually enjoy a challenge from time to time.

So they should either drastically increase the difficulty of all dungeons to the point of making them unsoloable (at which point everyone should be glad to have other players around) or enable us to select "solo-mode" for dungeons obviously designed for one player.

Lord_Hev

Gaudrath wrote: »

The problem here is that Zenimax did not implement any of their vaunted megaserver instancing options.

You don't get a nice check list of options to pick and choose and tell the megaserver how it should instance you - something they bragged about during development.

Those options would pretty much solve all these problems. People who like to solo dungeons would be able to pick that option and have a private instance created just for them every time they entered a cave or a house. People who prefer to do that content with other players would be able to pick that.

Instead we have a mess here...

or enable us to select "solo-mode" for dungeons obviously designed for one player.

This is the best option for everyone. An option that should be the highest priority to get implemented as soon as possible.

Aside from fixing the multitude of bugged quests of course. But half of them would be fixed by this private instancing option anyway, so even better!

rdesja202b16_ESO

AT first while playing this I started to think the same as the OP, then gradually in the short time started to accept it and played it thinking it is like an ES game but with other people and move on form there, but saying that by happenstance walked to recover a Skyshard and totally missed the named Mob that was off to the left of it and all heck broke loose, I fought the named and new I was going to die any second but low and behold out of the blue, 2 Players came and took the Boss down with me........I had like less then a sliver of HP left......Just like in any Good Fantasy Novel/Game someone came to rescue a person in need.....From now on....the more the merrier............

cheeser123

Xemnas wrote: »

Pretty much what the last guy said. If you don't like playing/questing with others then this game isn't for you.

Except that it's not questing with others, it's questing at the same time as others -- even though you are completing the quests independently. The TES questing mechanics don't work like WoW or other MMOs. I don't want to show up and talk to one character who says "ugh I am dying please do 10 tasks to summon a demon to avenge me" only to watch a guy who got there 20 minutes earlier summon that demon and end the quest for me.

cheeser123

Gaudrath wrote: »

The problem here is that Zenimax did not implement any of their vaunted megaserver instancing options.

You don't get a nice check list of options to pick and choose and tell the megaserver how it should instance you - something they bragged about during development.

Yet another reason this bait-and-switch is most annoying for actual TES fans and not the rabble of MMO-lovers who will tell us "shut up it's just as good as Wow."

LadyChaos

negative.
There are group instanced quest dungeons where I have only seen my group enter. But for the solo player you would rarely be able to finish most the quests on level if you were not able to work in tandem with a PU buddy.

Every game has open instance quest dungeons, its just cool that these dungeons are 1-3 quests not a week of questing a single dungeon they have crammed every single possible quest content they could into one dungeon overloading it with population...

so far I like the quest dungeons. Without this you'd be PUG LFG just to do one quest in a random remote dungeon.. people would skip all dungeons leveling up like we do in rift and many others in solo form and only go back if you happen to have friends online or are on alt. This is solo/duo friendly

Jadeviper1974

Docam wrote: »

Those moments where out of nowhere someone gets the last hit on the guy I've just been fighting for like 5 minutes.

Every time that has happened to me I have gotten credit for the kill, which is an aspect of the game I like. Makes kill stealing pretty much impossible.

Gaudrath

LadyChaos wrote: »

negative.
There are group instanced quest dungeons where I have only seen my group enter. But for the solo player you would rarely be able to finish most the quests on level if you were not able to work in tandem with a PU buddy.

I do solo dungeons that are 3-4 levels above me, and do them shirtless since my armor broke over time and I realized I don't actually need it. This game is easy.

The problem arises because the game was designed in such a way that it is obvious solo dungeons were meant to be instanced for solo gameplay, like guild quests are. But this, for whatever reason, was not implemented. So now pacing in these dungeons is completely blown away. I used to love exploring every nook and cranny, creeping up through abandoned tombs and forgotten lairs - except now there is a train of 20 other adventurers all running around like mad, instagibbing everything in their path. I can hardly loose an arrow before everything drops dead.
It's like watching piranhas feed.

If they actually designed the game to be like this, I have no idea what they were smoking. As the rest of the game is actually very nice, I'm leaning to the "incomplete features" explanation.

LadyChaos

Gaudrath wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

negative.
There are group instanced quest dungeons where I have only seen my group enter. But for the solo player you would rarely be able to finish most the quests on level if you were not able to work in tandem with a PU buddy.

I do solo dungeons that are 3-4 levels above me, and do them shirtless since my armor broke over time and I realized I don't actually need it. This game is easy.

The problem arises because the game was designed in such a way that it is obvious solo dungeons were meant to be instanced for solo gameplay, like guild quests are. But this, for whatever reason, was not implemented. So now pacing in these dungeons is completely blown away. I used to love exploring every nook and cranny, creeping up through abandoned tombs and forgotten lairs - except now there is a train of 20 other adventurers all running around like mad, instagibbing everything in their path. I can hardly loose an arrow before everything drops dead.
It's like watching piranhas feed.

If they actually designed the game to be like this, I have no idea what they were smoking. As the rest of the game is actually very nice, I'm leaning to the "incomplete features" explanation.

... I been doing this long time too.
no faster way to sound like you are too awesome and everything is just so easy than to say I did all of my zones shirtless/neked etc... lol if you didn't mean it to come off that way /wink.

I've messed with bunch a specs and I'm in the orange on armor magic spell defense and magic regen.... I've played every major MMO made... and a few less major... I have found some set backs TRULY SOLO.. ie same level or lower than the mobs and no one was helping me. Its doable and enjoyable and challenging enough.. solo (at level) but not a cakewalk neked. so I have to call shenanigans, if you meant solo :-P

They want us to enjoy solo play at our desire but want to encourage grouping us when possible... there's a reason its easier and faster as a group. they are encouraging it.. to meet people to enjoy the community to enjoy a group effort even if it was just smashing a bunch of skeletons. But no, even to a veteran gamer it is not in your sleep doable at level, neked, at least not painfully. People should NOT feel bad about themselves for re-spawning a few times solo in a quest dungeon.

The quest dungeons are not supposed to be difficult as a GROUP. That is why the guild and storyline quests are solo. There are quests that are supposed to challenge and test you.

DumbandDunmer810

I get you wanting to shut it off, as it kills it for me as well, but being as it's an MMO, I still will just suck it up. And if I find myself beginning to be unable to ignore it, I'll go back and play any of the other single player TES games.

PaulD

It is a little startling to have other players in what appears to be an instance, but things will clear out over a few weeks as the PVP and dungeon raiders rush through the content so they can play the end game. And then they'll start screaming "develop end game raids only, ignore those guys who like PVE and walking around the world you've build". What's awful is when the devs listen to that group.

YourNameHere

My biggest problem with having all these people doing the same thing I am doing, and not grouped, is it FORCES my journal in that quest to advance.

I'm sure some people might be like "Yay! Now i can move on cause I didn't do anything!" But not me. It has gotten me killed numerous times as I was looking at the quest to see what to do.

So if they keep all these people swarming through dungeons, at least make it so they don't affect MY quests unless I group with them.

OZGODUSA

So I guess what a lot of people here want is a hybrid MMO instead of the usual MMO. An MMO you can switch on so you can enjoy the benefits of an MMO when you are in the cities or towns so there are real people to fill the role that NPCs would have in a SP game, but switch to SP when its time to quest and get into immersive hero mode? After all there can only be ONE Dragonborn right. All these Dragonbornspawn running around like termites kind of ruins the experience I agree.

I think Age of Conan had something like that - they had MMO by day, then at night it switched over to single player. So you had both experiences. I don't think they did it very well though. It's difficult to do I think.

Phasing can be tricky. Even in ESO now if you have friends who have a different level of completion to you you won't be able to see them in the world even if you group - you can see their arrow that says they are in your group but they are invisible. The only way to work around it is to teleport to them.

Having played many MMOs, I think this problem will solve itself in 6 months time. With the way ESO has implemented phasing most people won't be able to see anyone else who is not at the same level of progression as they are even in the cities. It was the same with SWTOR - busy in the first few months, then a lot of the hubs became ghost towns. You couldn't do group content even if you wanted to. It basically became a single player MMO.

Gaudrath

OZGODUSA wrote: »

So I guess what a lot of people here want is a hybrid MMO instead of the usual MMO.

On the contrary, I for example enjoy MMO's, but what I do not enjoy is kill-stealing. That's just bad, archaic design, and even back in the old days kill-stealing meant someone tagged the rare mob or boss before you did so you had to wait for a respawn.

Now it's the other way around - you get the loot, but they steal your fight.

Much worse. It turns many quests and entire quest chains completely anticlimactic - you spend all that time hunting that bad boss across half the province, finally corner them in their hideout/castle/lair and then, when you're about to face them, a dozen other people barge in and chop them up in two seconds before they even had a chance to finish their evil monologue, finish the quest for you, run around a bit, loot all the chests cupboards and barrels, then run out.

So yeah, worse than classic kill stealing - this is quest stealing.

cheeser123

The main question is this: When Bethesda decided to do TES Online, did they think "Man, it would be great if we could take this awesome game and let people play with their friends (and maybe it would be an MMO)?" or did they think "MMOs are cash-cows. Get on that sh*t, and f**k the mechanics and the TES fans." It really sounds like the latter, based on how the mechanics for solo/small-group play, sneaking, dungeoning, etc. have all broken down and especially based on the way launch has proceeded -- or not -- for the people who've invested the most (CE purchasers, physical box purchasers, foreign customers, people who don't want a subscription MMO but will deal with it to reinvest in this franchise). It's sad.

Korah_Eaglecry

Gaudrath wrote: »

OZGODUSA wrote: »

So I guess what a lot of people here want is a hybrid MMO instead of the usual MMO.

On the contrary, I for example enjoy MMO's, but what I do not enjoy is kill-stealing. That's just bad, archaic design, and even back in the old days kill-stealing meant someone tagged the rare mob or boss before you did so you had to wait for a respawn.

Now it's the other way around - you get the loot, but they steal your fight.

Much worse. It turns many quests and entire quest chains completely anticlimactic - you spend all that time hunting that bad boss across half the province, finally corner them in their hideout/castle/lair and then, when you're about to face them, a dozen other people barge in and chop them up in two seconds before they even had a chance to finish their evil monologue, finish the quest for you, run around a bit, loot all the chests cupboards and barrels, then run out.

So yeah, worse than classic kill stealing - this is quest stealing.

Cant steal kills..But congratulations on proving that youre willing to lie to further an agenda.

Hagon94

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Gaudrath wrote: »

OZGODUSA wrote: »

- back in the old days kill-stealing meant someone tagged the rare mob or boss before you did so you had to wait for a respawn.

Now it's the other way around - you get the loot, but they steal your fight. -

Cant steal kills..But congratulations on proving that youre willing to lie to further an agenda.

Korah, from my understading of Gaudrath's post, he never lied or claimed that you could steal someones kill in the form of loot or quest progress or experience, which is probably what you are thinking of. He simply means that you steal the actual combat experience itself by attacking the creature you want to fight by yourself. Atleast It's what I think. I might be wrong.

In any case, I don't think you should jump to conclusions that quickly and accuse someone of lying. Even if someone did lie, you could still prove that person was wrong in a different way than you just did.

Gunner59

I like the way Neverwinter does it. Most of the quests lines have solo instanced legs of the quest and usually end in a solo instanced boss fight. The rest is open questing with dungeons/PvP for those that like to immerse themselves in the MMO. It has its roots in Baulder's Gate and someone told me there is some connection with Baulder's gate and ES...don't know if it's true or not but it is Elder Scrollish.

This game is very solo unfriendly in that there is no AH for those that do not like doing the guild thing; Not much solo instancing and too much fight stealing. I like a good fight to the finish and it's very disappointing when someone comes in and finishes for me.

Needless to say when my 30 days are up I will be going back to it and it's f2p so I don't have to go through a flawed authentication process.

Too bad though, I really like the ES series.

scarsreminder80

To the OP... and anyone else that agrees with the OP.

Let me offer you a quick suggestion. Go play GuildWars 1. Everything in that game was instanced except for the towns... which is pretty much what you want.

Play that and you will see just how boring it can get when you have the entire world to yourself and only meet people in a town.

Best part is the game only costs like 30 bucks now and doesn't require a subscription. it sounds perfect for what you want.

And if you don't want to leave the Elder Scrolls Universe, you can always install that crap multiplayer addon someone made for Skyrim. Works the same way!

OZGODUSA

scarsreminder80 wrote: »

To the OP... and anyone else that agrees with the OP.

Let me offer you a quick suggestion. Go play GuildWars 1. Everything in that game was instanced except for the towns... which is pretty much what you want.

Play that and you will see just how boring it can get when you have the entire world to yourself and only meet people in a town.

Best part is the game only costs like 30 bucks now and doesn't require a subscription. it sounds perfect for what you want.

And if you don't want to leave the Elder Scrolls Universe, you can always install that crap multiplayer addon someone made for Skyrim. Works the same way!

I think a lot of it is just square peg round hole stuff. Because this game attracted fans of the ES series where its all about roleplay and immersion but is at the same time an MMO, which means massively multiplayer, meaning tons of players. Unfortunately I don't know of any MMOs which are still MMORPGs, which is where the genre started.

Severia

For me, the problem is purely immersion. If I am on a quest into a ruin that has been closed for centuries and I am supposed to be exploring it for the first time, it breaks my immersion when I discover 50 other players in there. And it destroys my satisfaction of the game if someone else kills the boss and finishes my quest. That is just not fun.

But I think it is really the writing that is to blame. If they are going to have public quests, they should write them as if they are public quests. If a quest giver gives a quest to me and only me, then I expect to not see anyone doing the same quest. Personally I would like to see a balance of both types of quest, but they should be handled differently.

holmen_89b16_ESO

This is a phasing problem. I reacted to the masses in dungeons as well. All they need to do is cap the number of people in phases to a more sustainable amount. Also give people who quest in groups the alternative to quest in a private phase in dungeons.

Gaudrath

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Cant steal kills..But congratulations on proving that youre willing to lie to further an agenda.

The only thing proven, friend, is that you haven't read my post beyond the first two lines.

Hagon94 got it right.

Now, someone mentioned Guild Wars 1 - that's not a good comparison. GW1 was entirely instanced - including overworld - which is just poor design for an MMO. What I'm talking about is instancing dungeons OR making them harder.

First, easy dungeons which are doable by a solo character are not fun when you have 10 players in there. There is zero challenge, and thus zero fun.
I had a few positive open dungeons experiences, where I was glad to have other players around, because stepping onto four alligators while fighting five tigers is not good for anyone's health and other players actually made that particular dungeon doable (and oh my god, a leatherworker's paradise). So that's fine - that's what every open dungeon should be like. Tough and very difficult to do solo.

Or, in the case of the more story-driven but easy ones - keep them instanced. As I said, nothing is more anticlimactic than having other people finish the quest for you before you had a chance of even seeing where the boss is.

metaldrummer1962b14a_ESO

Go play a single player game

deamor666eb17_ESO

Do you have any idea how many servers ZOS would need if they would add the option for every single player to be able to make a unique instance for themselves?

Elvent

I think Bethesda will still be making the elder scrolls series even if ESO is a major success with Zenimax, I even seen them say they will continue to work on the series, so might I suggest waiting for the next single player game?

Vikova

Elvent wrote: »

I think Bethesda will still be making the elder scrolls series even if ESO is a major success with Zenimax, I even seen them say they will continue to work on the series, so might I suggest waiting for the next single player game?

This, essentially. They aren't going to forego the singleplayer series because of ESO - that's partly why Zenimax is doing this in the first place, it allows Bethesda to continue with their other work.

Gaudrath

deamor666eb17_ESO wrote: »

Do you have any idea how many servers ZOS would need if they would add the option for every single player to be able to make a unique instance for themselves?

Yes - none. I actually do know something about how servers work. Instances do not require extra computing power or bandwidth. The same amount of data is transferred between client and server regardless of whether each player has their own instance or we are all grouped together. Actually, even less, since if each player has their own instance their clients do not need to be fed data about other players in other instances.
Virtual compartmentalization is exactly that - virtual. And the megaserver technology is already using very heavy instancing. You just dot not see it because it's less obvious than in other games where players are given semi-manual control over which instance of the world they're in. So all we are not given is the ability to control the way we are instanced. Options. But hey, we can't have those, right?

digitalanimenlb16_ESO

I would also like the option to be able to play solo, or only see party members in public dungeons. It's no challenge at all going inside these dungeons now, just trying to get a few hits on the mobs just for the XP and drops. And it just looks stupid seeing 10 other people waiting for an enemy to reappear, it's as stupid as playing Whack a Mole, hitting stuff popping up in front of you. Yes this game is a MMO, but it should be a MMORPG as well, and public dungeons don't feel very RPG worthy right now.

And why shouldn't it be possible, some area's are already instanced in some quests. Like the ones with the Prophet and Lyris Titanborn.

nhisso

Go play terrible Skyrim, or awesome Morrowind/Oblivion then. I can't believe someone is playing an MMO and complaining that not every indoor area is strictly instanced for them. Good lord.