I DON'T want to see other players in instanced dungeons, caves, houses or rooms while questing!

Garriej

@OP, stop playing an MASSIVE MULTIPLAY ONLINE game if you want to play alone... you buy an online game, if you expect to play alone, you clearly bought the wrong game.

Pretext

Its an appalling system which totally ruins immersion.

What I would like to know is why they did it? What principle of good gaming systems was this based on?

Orizuru

angelspit.darknesseb17_ESO wrote: »

Well that's dumb. Even if you say "option", people still try to send you to "skyrim\something else\play single-player games. Or "People like you ruin MMO's for everyone." Seriously? I just wanted to have an option for solo instance, not forcing it on everyone. Sometimes you want some space, not to have dozens of people killing all living in your dungeon. Yet, I "ruin MMO's", I do WHAT?! I DO NOT ask it to be single-player game, hello!
I love this game so far, but I would like to see this OPTION as well, not trying to "ruin MMO's".

You get that response from MMO players because they understand that the developers have limited resources and can't do everything the players would like them to do in the game.

When solo players start asking for development resources to be spent on a solo experience it becomes counter-productive to the design philosophy of an MMO.

Its not because people don't want solo players to provide feedback or enjoy the game. It's because they believe this is a multiplayer game and design philosophy should revolve around that aspect of the game.

I tend to agree with them. I want a good MMO, not a good single-player game. If I wanted a good single-player game I would have bought a single-player game, not an MMO. Asking for single-player features seems foolish to me because an MMO is not meant to be a single-player game exclusively. I love to play the Lone Wolf type of player in MMOs, but I never feel like the game should ever cater to that play-style because its a play-style that is counter to the design philosophy I believe should be used in an MMO. I solo when it suits me and focus on things I can achieve on my own. When something becomes impossible to solo, then I get a group of people together.

That said, if you have a different design philosophy than I do, then by all means continue to ask for what you want. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. I just thought I'd try and help you see the other side of the argument a little more clearly.

Froobert

I have a question as well! It's been eating at me and keeping me from going any farther through the game! Help me choose!

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/68119/the-choice-of-the-ages-dragonknight-tank-dps-dragonknight-or-kite-sorcerer#latest

Thanks!

Foxhunt

Speak for yourself. I love seeing all these other players all over my world as I am adventuring and questing etc. Once you start instancing things like this, where does it end?

Orizuru

Froobert wrote: »

I have a question as well! It's been eating at me and keeping me from going any farther through the game! Help me choose!

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/68119/the-choice-of-the-ages-dragonknight-tank-dps-dragonknight-or-kite-sorcerer#latest

Thanks!

Careful, promoting your own thread like this in other threads is spam and can get you reported.

Metella

I don't mind there being other players running around (and indeed in the cities I *love* it because it gets rid of that 'ghost town' feeling of some of the Skyrim/Oblivion cities which are meant to be cities but have a small enough population that you can learn the names of every inhabitant in about five or ten minutes' wandering around) but I do find it a bit weird that the writing doesn't reflect this. Is this... normal for an MMO? I mean, I've never really played one, are they all full of 'you are the Chosen One, do this quest in this empty location! oh btw there will be forty or so other people in there with you who may help you out or ignore you or wait for you to kill the baddies then '? Or 'you are the Chosen One! And so are all the other members of your team!'?

I'd sort of figured this was maybe a consequence of taking the TES element a bit too literally (I'm hardly a veteran of the series, but I've played a LOT of Skyrim and some Oblivion and Morrowind, and personally I don't think being the Chosen One is actually all that key to the awesomeness of the series, as evidenced by the number of people who play Skyrim modded so they aren't the Dragonborn on at least some of their playthroughs), but from people's reactions it sounds as though this is kind of the norm?

silent88b14_ESO

"Hagon94 wrote: »

I guess I'll simply have to realise that my opinion is not a popular one.

I don't believe your opinion is an unpopular one, but rather that there are some people who disagree. Some of them are most likely the group of 'all MMOs are a race to the endgame' types who could care less that they stepped on your sandcastle. Some are probably the type that wishes they had been there to kick your sandcastle so they could feed on your discomfort. Most probably really do believe that MMOs are intended to nurture codependency and stifle independence. But if there are five million people playing the game and even ten, or fifty, or sixty tried to rock you back on your heels with their discourtesy it does not mean that your opinion is an unpopular one.

Secondly, it isn't really an opinion to feel that way, or it doesn't sound like one. It is your sentiment, your feeling, and what matters is that for you it is valid. Your impression was as it was. Your disappointment is all you can control for in that.

Expect people to be human and they will never disappoint. Expect them to be perfect and they will, most likely, not quite measure up.

Melian

So, we have people freaking out because there are other people in their dungeons, and people freaking out because there are solo dungeons.
ZOS can't win, eh?

Foxhunt

Melian wrote: »

So, we have people freaking out because there are other people in their dungeons, and people freaking out because there are solo dungeons.
ZOS can't win, eh?

No matter what is done, there will be someone who is unhappy with it.

Korah_Eaglecry

Moonscythe wrote: »

Let me say something about this whole MMOs are a social environment. Much of the social is rude behavior with no thought about it because "it is only a game". I like to play games but this is the first MMO I have hopes for. I briefly tried LOTRO but the game mechanics made me crazy. I am an introvert…not shy…just don't handle a lot of people. I want to play this game because I love the whole Elder Scrolls world. Just because I am not like the extroverts out there, and don't like PKs or PvP doesn't make my desires less worthy of consideration. Those of us asking for some way to tone down the crowds aren't anti-social and I seriously doubt any of us want to be alone because
.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

I wonder why they behave this way...Could it have anything to do with the anti-social grooming they received in other 'MMOs'? Or people like yourself who wish to be 'alone' because you created environments where that kind of behavior was acceptable? And in turn aided you in your arguments for more soloable content. Its an endless cycle of anti-social behavior in a platform for socializing.

You cant have it both ways. Asking for the 'crowds' (Which is just the Early Launch Rush of any MMO) to go away is asking for you to be alone.

Guess what. Im an introvert as well. Im not shy either and typically I dont like real life crowds. But I have not experienced large amounts of negative gamers in this game. Infact I rather enjoy the fact people get involved. There is no cost or consequence to them doing so. They cant steal a kill from you and if you dont get a blow in typically the Boss is right back up a few seconds later. And I already know the next argument. 'Oh no it breaks immersion'..Cause its hard to believe that the quest giver doesnt know you and hence doesnt trust you or anyone else they give the quest to to succeed. So they give it to multiple greedy adventurers just incase one of you is successful. But no..Quest Givers wouldnt lie to you. They wouldnt stroke your ego about being this 1 Great Hero in a world without Heros to get you to go in those Ruins/Cave to do what theyre too weak to do themselves would they?

You admitted that besides LOTRO that this is actually your first MMO. So does it make any sense. That you would play a new genre of game. And because its actually the complete opposite of all the Single Player games youve played before. Youre going to expect a game that focuses on Multiplayer Aspects to turn more of the game into Single Player experiences then it already has.

Most of the quests are soloable. You dont need a group. You dont need a Guild. Theres the storyline involving the Prophet which is solo content. Theres Dungeons where you do need a group. Youre not going to see people running in there and 'surprising you'. These Dungeons are spread out over Tamriel its not like theres just one of them. Theres also instances for the Fighters Guild that unless you have a group going. Only you can get in.

So why does EVERY instance have to be restricted? Why are your needs (which are being met) more important then the MMO community, that joined the MMO because of the random interactions and by chance socializing? Just because youre more vocal?

byghostlightrwb17_ESO

I agree to a point, I hate the way solo dungeons work, I want to have a challenge. In this game they are anything but, in fact everytime I go to one I am lucky to even kill one mob myself, of course I have to get to it by fighting a mob of farmers who arent there for fun but farming for profit.

Lord_Hev

I swear, it's like every MMO die-heart here is irreversibly obtuse.

There is a clear writing issue here. The writers for whatever reason, got too into the TES style and centered their main quest around a singular player.[NOT PLURAL] This is a problem, because actual game-play does not reflect or compliment this. It's a clear discrepancy. So PvE[story-wise] is... bad. The writing focuses on the sole person rather than the whole. You cannot have a "Chosen One" in an MMO. They should have dropped it. No need to have it just because the single-player titles did. But ZOS' writers apparently could not fathom that, or think outside the box. So they just tried to slap TES single-player story with an MMO. It's very, VERY sloppy.

Seneschel

I think you're playing the wrong game if you don't want to see other players.

DarkInvictus

The whole idea of public dungeons is that everyone can use them. It can be quite handy when you need to face a tricky boss and you're trying to solo with other people around.

Scintilla

Lord_Hev wrote: »

There is a clear writing issue here [......] This is a problem [.....] So PvE[story-wise] is... bad. The writing focuses on the sole person rather than the whole. You cannot have a "Chosen One" in an MMO. They should have dropped it [.....] But ZOS' writers apparently could not fathom that [.....] It's very, VERY sloppy.

A bit harsh maybe? Now I've got into the game more and people are more spread out, the single-player/chosen one feel is there to a nice extent. Also it feels good too to come across 2, 3, 4+ players fighting a difficult fight and joining in and now I am doing more off-the-beaten-track jaunts this happens more. Guess I'm just saying that my view has changed slightly after nearly a weeks worth of evening sojourns into ESO world. Let's see what I thin in a month!

jpbreonub17_ESO

Pretext wrote: »

Its an appalling system which totally ruins immersion.

What I would like to know is why they did it? What principle of good gaming systems was this based on?

Agreed. I just counted 21 people at Saintsport. You attack a mob, that you can kill easily yourself, and 2 people feel the need to yank it to them or blow it up for no apparent reason.

Good luck if you want to harvest anything. Every single hole in the wall has a person camping it, ready to fire off a hate-filled message if you come too close.

Yeh, immersion is impossible in this game. I may save my time and come back in a few months.

Korah_Eaglecry

Lord_Hev wrote: »

I swear, it's like every MMO die-heart here is irreversibly obtuse.

There is a clear writing issue here. The writers for whatever reason, got too into the TES style and centered their main quest around a singular player.[NOT PLURAL] This is a problem, because actual game-play does not reflect or compliment this. It's a clear discrepancy. So PvE[story-wise] is... bad. The writing focuses on the sole person rather than the whole. You cannot have a "Chosen One" in an MMO. They should have dropped it. No need to have it just because the single-player titles did. But ZOS' writers apparently could not fathom that, or think outside the box. So they just tried to slap TES single-player story with an MMO. It's very, VERY sloppy.

Plenty of MMOs take the 'youre the hero' approach to storytelling. STO and SWTOR being two that I can think of at this moment.

You obviously did not think this through before writing it.

Lord_Hev

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

I swear, it's like every MMO die-heart here is irreversibly obtuse.

There is a clear writing issue here. The writers for whatever reason, got too into the TES style and centered their main quest around a singular player.[NOT PLURAL] This is a problem, because actual game-play does not reflect or compliment this. It's a clear discrepancy. So PvE[story-wise] is... bad. The writing focuses on the sole person rather than the whole. You cannot have a "Chosen One" in an MMO. They should have dropped it. No need to have it just because the single-player titles did. But ZOS' writers apparently could not fathom that, or think outside the box. So they just tried to slap TES single-player story with an MMO. It's very, VERY sloppy.

Plenty of MMOs take the 'youre the hero' approach to storytelling. STO and SWTOR being two that I can think of at this moment.

You obviously did not think this through before writing it.

I thought my response very through. I do not care what other MMOs do. Nor should ESO be like the other MMOs. Nor do the other MMOs define what an MMORPG is. Nor should an Elder Scrolls MMO try to imitate the single-player narrative of previous TES games that were single-player. They "played it safe" with a cliche storyline that makes zero logical sense in an MMO environment no matter how you try to slice it. It does not require Shakespeare to get rid of this Chosen Hero farce. Have a narrative that actually SUPPORTS MMO play-style and behavior, not work against it.

But this is all pointless talk, really. What's done is done. Hopefully ZOS can remedy this when writing their planned expansion questlines and what-not.

drkeys143

Personally, I'm happy to see others in the world, and if I'm having a rough time and a passing player pitches in to help, I'm cool with that. Myself, I tend to watch a skirmish I'm passing, and check the health of the player and if he/she is doing ok I won't interfere as I know it isn't always welcome, but I will join in if they are getting a pounding. What I really appreciate are the players that will throw a healing/restoration at you in passing, that's good for me

cjclem

If it is suppose to be an abandoned house or lost ruins, I agree you should not see a lot of people around. It seems to kill the immersion, as you said.

Hagon94

Ugh, I just went to do some quests in Stormhaven and in the first quest I get I'm supposed to enter some kind of house where enemies have been trapped and you are supposed to go in and kill them and rescue a hostage. I enter the place and immediately upon entry I see that the floor is strewn with dead bodies, not a single guy is alive. There's around 5 other random players running around in this room. Then I find the guy I'm to save. It's just really off-putting.

There's no challenge to it which is the very foundation of a game.
It ruins the storytelling and immersion which is also a big part of the game.

The main quest and some guild quests are closed and instanced and I absolutely love doing those quests. But there are a lot fewer of them then there are regular quests. Doing regular quests is what you do most of the time to level up.
I don't understand why they make regular quests like the guild and main quests... Let me do them alone!

Lord_Hev

Hagon94 wrote: »

Ugh, I just went to do some quests in Stormhaven and in the first quest I get I'm supposed to enter some kind of house where enemies have been trapped and you are supposed to go in and kill them and rescue a hostage. I enter the place and immediately upon entry I see that the floor is strewn with dead bodies, not a single guy is alive. There's around 5 other random players running around in this room. Then I find the guy I'm to save. It's just really off-putting.

There's no challenge to it which is the very foundation of a game.
It ruins the storytelling and immersion which is also a big part of the game.

The main quest and some guild quests are closed and instanced and I absolutely love doing those quests. But there are a lot fewer of them then there are regular quests. Doing regular quests is what you do most of the time to level up.
I don't understand why they make regular quests like the guild and main quests... Let me do them alone!

Agreed. I imagine an optional "solo-mode" could be implemented. Hence the word "optional," this way, everyone wins. Co-operative PvE was obviosuly intended for group dungeons and Veteran content. As-such, the "regular" stuff is poor. Hence, the atrocious handling of instancing, and seeing 30 people farming the boss at the end of an abandoned long-forgotten-cave-that-was-only-recently-found-by-you "quest."

There is no harm in adding a optional solo-mode. If they can "instance" Campaigns in Cyrodiil[large-scale] and they can instance some quests to be solo[small-scale] then a solo-mode for public quests are very reasonable.


I'm sick of having to re-log because I cannot complete a quest, because the boss was already slaughtered by 30 other people crowding him before I could get to him. Have to re-log just to get a proper boss fight AND retrieve the quest item, because when the 30 other players zerged him, I actually was UNABLE to advance the quest because I could not kill the boss for the item to spawn for me, because the obscured boss in a long-forgotten-cave-that-was-only-recently-found-by-you was already **** by 30 other friggin players.


Optional solo-mode would do wonders in saving some of us a head-ache. And for us immersion lovers.

Karaena_Aedoth

I like it. Leave it alone.

hurricane198

there are plenty of quests where you enter an instance alone like doshia's lair etc. its balanced well. But i get your point it can be annoying sometimes but also good, when youre hitting on a mob and you almost die sometimes you have the luck 3 other ppl come to your aid. pretty awesome

OZGODUSA

I think it's hard to get immersion in an MMO, because there's always other people there who may not act the way you want them to. Immersion has always been better in SP games (or coop games where you have a small group of like minded teammates) than MMOs. Especially a few days into the launch when every man, woman and his dog is checking the game out.

MercyKilling

Name ONE other MMO where you can enter a dungeon and see people running the same quest that ARE NOT TEAMED WITH YOU.

Yes, it's an MMO..but it's not an MMO. Public instancing is a bad design feature. Boss farming is already occurring in a growing number of public instances in such numbers that normal players are having problems tagging the boss to get credit to clear the dungeon.....which is a violation of section 6 of the terms of service. Go read them.

Yes. Instance all dungeons. Bosses spawn once then you're done with the instance. Move on.

Lord_Hev

MercyKilling wrote: »

Name ONE other MMO where you can enter a dungeon and see people running the same quest that ARE NOT TEAMED WITH YOU.

Yes, it's an MMO..but it's not an MMO. Public instancing is a bad design feature.

Another good point. The concept of public instancing is a problem in it's own right. It's too sporadic, especially when you have loads of people in the same area. If the whole point of PvE is to fight with people cooperatively, then why not encourage that, by finding people and then teaming up? Rather than just doing it lazily, and making the dungeons instanced to all, which leads to problems as illustrated above and beyond. This is not encouraging "playing with your friends." This is encouraging: "gee, I hope there are not 50 other people in here rushing to get to the boss before the quest buggs out from public instancing overload."

Make it function similar to how group dungeons work, but keep the difficulty low enough for solo. If still too difficult, or you just want company, then get to town and socialize. That's how an MMORPG should function. As it nails both the MMO segment, and the RPG segment.

Pang

MercyKilling wrote: »

Name ONE other MMO where you can enter a dungeon and see people running the same quest that ARE NOT TEAMED WITH YOU.

Yes, it's an MMO..but it's not an MMO. Public instancing is a bad design feature. Boss farming is already occurring in a growing number of public instances in such numbers that normal players are having problems tagging the boss to get credit to clear the dungeon.....which is a violation of section 6 of the terms of service. Go read them.

Yes. Instance all dungeons. Bosses spawn once then you're done with the instance. Move on.

DAoC. Made by a lot of the same people who made this game.

Vikova

There are people out and about. As it should be. Because, well, MMO and all that.

As for the TSW excuse: please, the number of quests that you are by yourself is minimal. It is also the least MMO of all MMOs.