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Tenth Anniversary Gift; Spellcrafting?

Tyrant_Tim
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Lately I’ve been thinking…

What have we been missing that would make the perfect anniversary gift to the community for keeping ESO alive and vibrant for a decade?

And I keep circling back to an old promise…

Spellcrafting

https://youtu.be/XY_Ei0VOJU4?si=old0IKgDH3PjzKAO
Every time I watch that video from Quakecon 2014, going over all the details of how Spellcrafting would be implemented, it brings me so much joy, a theorycrafter at heart, this feature is a dream.

I want everyone to experience that, and what better time to deliver on that promise, than the 10th Anniversary of ESO as a gift to the community.
  • phaneub17_ESO
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    I want an entire town. Mayor's Manor down the middle, with multiple smaller homes surrounding a central fountain. The smaller buildings with open doors, we decide whether you can enter them or not.
  • TaSheen
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    No thank you - I'd rather have something like @phaneub17_ESO has posted.

    Otherwise, for myself, I'd want to see the rest of Hammerfell.
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    But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending.

    PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- three accounts, many alts....
  • spartaxoxo
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    Spell crafting is unlikely to be satisfying.
  • ESO_player123
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    I personally would not want spellcrafting. With all the constant tweaks and changes we are having now adding another layer to fiddle with does not sound enticing.

    I would prefer a new location or ability to grow plants in houses (like in Skyrim).
  • Tyrant_Tim
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    I would recommend watching the video before commenting against the idea.
  • blktauna
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    I have less than zero interest in spellcrafting. I'd live to see a new area, working pvp, special costumes, a return of special no longer available items... more in that range
    PCNA
    PCEU
  • SilverBride
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    Spellcrafting is the worst thing I can think of... even worse than the Endless Archive.

    (Had to edit because I ended up loving the Infinite Archive.)
    Edited by SilverBride on January 10, 2024 1:49AM
    PCNA
  • chessalavakia_ESO
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    My impression was the addition of Pyroclast, Infernace Conservator meant that they don't intend for players to have Flame Atronach's as a summon which to me suggests they don't intend to have Spell Crafting.
  • Tyrant_Tim
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    You do realize that adjusting old content does not attract new players?

    This year needs a massive draw-in point, and unless you can think of a better feature, this is the best case scenario.

    I don’t understand how anyone can say this feature is a bad idea, when it’s universally beneficial.
  • ESO_player123
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    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    I would recommend watching the video before commenting against the idea.

    Watched it, it's about what I expected. Nice quests to acquire the tablets/materials, but the end product will be something that is hard to balance and thus will be released in OP state and then nerfed to oblivion. We have enough of that already.
  • TaSheen
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    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    I would recommend watching the video before commenting against the idea.

    Watched it, it's about what I expected. Nice quests to acquire the tablets/materials, but the end product will be something that is hard to balance and thus will be released in OP state and then nerfed to oblivion. We have enough of that already.

    I don't see ZOS adding the sort of spellcrafting from the video ever. If they produce spellcrafting at all, it will be watered down to the point where there's just a few options. And inevitably, not all classes will get anything at all useful - only the "prime developer" preferred classes.
    ______________________________________________________

    But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending.

    PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- three accounts, many alts....
  • Tyrant_Tim
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    TaSheen wrote: »
    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    I would recommend watching the video before commenting against the idea.

    Watched it, it's about what I expected. Nice quests to acquire the tablets/materials, but the end product will be something that is hard to balance and thus will be released in OP state and then nerfed to oblivion. We have enough of that already.

    I don't see ZOS adding the sort of spellcrafting from the video ever. If they produce spellcrafting at all, it will be watered down to the point where there's just a few options. And inevitably, not all classes will get anything at all useful - only the "prime developer" preferred classes.

    Hope not.

    If anything, instead of the preferential treatment we’re seeing now, they would be universal skills. So if one is overperforming, which I’m gathering from recent PTS cycles that it wouldn’t be the case, at least every class has access to it.
  • spartaxoxo
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    I'm not particularly convinced the skills would be overpowered. I imagine that they would probably be slightly underpowered, like many things in this game that are flashy, fun, and unique.
  • LunaFlora
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    if it's the big new thing next year it would be a part of the chapter so not a gift, not free.

    i hope we get a new skill line at least
    miaow! i'm Luna ( she/her ).

    🌸*throws cherry blossom on you*🌸
    "Eagles advance, traveler! And may the Green watch and keep you."
    🦬🦌🐰
    PlayStation and PC EU.
    LunaLolaBlossom on psn.
    LunaFloraBlossom on pc.
  • Tyrant_Tim
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    LunaFlora wrote: »
    if it's the big new thing next year it would be a part of the chapter so not a gift, not free.

    i hope we get a new skill line at least

    I would have no problem paying for it, but it could very easily become part of the base game patch, similar to how we’re getting Endless Archive.

    Who knows, we could get a more melee oriented class with the chapter.

    After the train wreck these past few years have been, a good faith gesture for EVERYONE no matter what content you enjoy, like Spellcrafting would entice people to get involved with the game again, and be a selling point when comparing the game.
    Edited by Tyrant_Tim on October 9, 2023 4:20AM
  • chessalavakia_ESO
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    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    You do realize that adjusting old content does not attract new players?

    This year needs a massive draw-in point, and unless you can think of a better feature, this is the best case scenario.

    I don’t understand how anyone can say this feature is a bad idea, when it’s universally beneficial.

    How do you make the system appeal to individuals that want to be non-magic users?

    How do you clearly convey what the abilities do to players that are facing them in PvP?

    How do you avoid having the abilities take away from character's class/world identity?

    How do you have WW's interact with the changes?

    How do you keep selling classes/skill lines in a post spell crafting world?

    How do you manage dealing with the balance complaints?

    How do you balance allowing players a wide range of creativity with potential memory limitations?

    How do you plan to design the system so that players enjoy interacting with it?

    You might be able to handle all of that if you put boatloads of effort in but, you could probably toss out another system, class, and skill line for the same amount of effort or less with less risk of failure.

    For an example of a system, you could have instanced sieges with solo /Group + AI vs AI, Group vs AI, and PvP with versions using your character and versions loading templates.

    It might not have the greatest staying power, but you could probably have a bit of fun with it at first and make some nice trailer clips out of it.

    With that said, I'd assume at this point they already have planned and potentially partially implemented whatever is coming next year.
  • WrathOfInnos
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    @Tyrant_Tim I’m with you, a good spellcrafting system could be revolutionary for ESO. There is a lot of negativity on the forums, but I think most players would love to see this. Balancing such a system would not be too difficult now that most skills are standardized in cost and damage.
  • Amottica
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    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Spell crafting is unlikely to be satisfying.

    While I think Spellcrafting could add an interesting element to ESO, I think it will not be what many expect.

  • Tyrant_Tim
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    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    You do realize that adjusting old content does not attract new players?

    This year needs a massive draw-in point, and unless you can think of a better feature, this is the best case scenario.

    I don’t understand how anyone can say this feature is a bad idea, when it’s universally beneficial.

    How do you make the system appeal to individuals that want to be non-magic users?

    Those non-magic users would benefit from having allies using new support spells.
    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    You do realize that adjusting old content does not attract new players?

    This year needs a massive draw-in point, and unless you can think of a better feature, this is the best case scenario.

    I don’t understand how anyone can say this feature is a bad idea, when it’s universally beneficial.

    How do you clearly convey what the abilities do to players that are facing them in PvP?

    Look at “Crushing Weapon,” it would be as simple as adding standard prefixes or suffixes to the base spells.
    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    You do realize that adjusting old content does not attract new players?

    This year needs a massive draw-in point, and unless you can think of a better feature, this is the best case scenario.

    I don’t understand how anyone can say this feature is a bad idea, when it’s universally beneficial.

    How do you avoid having the abilities take away from character's class/world identity?

    We survived Hybridization, we could survive Spellcrafting. It’s not a longshot to assume that class abilities would still provide more, as they have passives to activate.
    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    You do realize that adjusting old content does not attract new players?

    This year needs a massive draw-in point, and unless you can think of a better feature, this is the best case scenario.

    I don’t understand how anyone can say this feature is a bad idea, when it’s universally beneficial.

    How do you have WW's interact with the changes?

    See the answer for non-magic users.
    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    You do realize that adjusting old content does not attract new players?

    This year needs a massive draw-in point, and unless you can think of a better feature, this is the best case scenario.

    I don’t understand how anyone can say this feature is a bad idea, when it’s universally beneficial.

    How do you keep selling classes/skill lines in a post spell crafting world?

    Easily, as mentioned earlier, it’s easy to assume due to the passives of each class, class skills are inherently stronger at their given purpose.
    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    You do realize that adjusting old content does not attract new players?

    This year needs a massive draw-in point, and unless you can think of a better feature, this is the best case scenario.

    I don’t understand how anyone can say this feature is a bad idea, when it’s universally beneficial.

    How do you manage dealing with the balance complaints?

    People are going to complain regardless, just look at Endless Archive. That’s a gift for us and people are endlessly complaining about it. Should you write these complaints off? No. But you should weigh general opinion against the few vocal avid complainers, and make choices that benefit the majority.
    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    You do realize that adjusting old content does not attract new players?

    This year needs a massive draw-in point, and unless you can think of a better feature, this is the best case scenario.

    I don’t understand how anyone can say this feature is a bad idea, when it’s universally beneficial.

    How do you balance allowing players a wide range of creativity with potential memory limitations?

    We’re past the point of “memory limitations” after Arcanist released, everywhere you go it’s a laser light show. The game can handle spells that NPCs are already using.
    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    You do realize that adjusting old content does not attract new players?

    This year needs a massive draw-in point, and unless you can think of a better feature, this is the best case scenario.

    I don’t understand how anyone can say this feature is a bad idea, when it’s universally beneficial.

    How do you plan to design the system so that players enjoy interacting with it?

    What little we have within the demonstration shows how rewarding exploration would be, and with the ability to trade crafted spells there would be massive profit to be made off of a good find.
    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    You do realize that adjusting old content does not attract new players?

    This year needs a massive draw-in point, and unless you can think of a better feature, this is the best case scenario.

    I don’t understand how anyone can say this feature is a bad idea, when it’s universally beneficial.

    …With that said, I'd assume at this point they already have planned and potentially partially implemented whatever is coming next year.

    You’re right that work has begun on this chapter, and hopefully Spellcrafting is part of that work.
  • Tyrant_Tim
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    Amottica wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Spell crafting is unlikely to be satisfying.

    While I think Spellcrafting could add an interesting element to ESO, I think it will not be what many expect.

    I have a feeling I know what you’re thinking, and I really hope it’s not released as a system of reskinning abilities.
    Edited by Tyrant_Tim on October 9, 2023 6:48AM
  • Erickson9610
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    How do you have WW's interact with the changes?

    This is a question that the development team needs to ask more. Werewolves are limited to using only Werewolf abilities, so this spellcrafting system would do nothing for them.

    The spellcrafting idea seems fun on paper for non-werewolves, though. It's also really interesting to see how much the game has evolved since that presentation in 2014 — a lot of the features they talked about were eventually added. Spellcrafting as it was described sounds like it was reworked into the Antiquities system, the latter of which *does* sometimes benefit werewolves.
  • Tyrant_Tim
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    @WrathOfInnos, yeah I was genuinely surprised by the negativity. I get that good faith is at an all-time-low for the community vs ZOS, but I have faith they could pull this off, they’ve shown they can balance with a chisel this year.
  • Tyrant_Tim
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    How do you have WW's interact with the changes?

    This is a question that the development team needs to ask more. Werewolves are limited to using only Werewolf abilities, so this spellcrafting system would do nothing for them.

    Ask yourself, how does Boundless Storm benefit Sorc WW, and you’ll find the answer you’re looking for. It’s as simple as crafting spells that have long durations to carry over when you transform, or spells to increase your survivability when you fall out of Werewolf form.
  • Erickson9610
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    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    How do you have WW's interact with the changes?

    This is a question that the development team needs to ask more. Werewolves are limited to using only Werewolf abilities, so this spellcrafting system would do nothing for them.

    Ask yourself, how does Boundless Storm benefit Sorc WW, and you’ll find the answer you’re looking for. It’s as simple as crafting spells that have long durations to carry over when you transform, or spells to increase your survivability when you fall out of Werewolf form.

    Serious Werewolf players know how to manage their timer and do not fall out of form. The Werewolf playstyle is entirely encapsulated within the skill line, which means that non-Werewolf abilities with durations will fall off and won't be refreshed.

    Unless we are allowed to slot Spellcrafting skills on our Werewolf bar, it is considered inaccessible to werewolves.
    Edited by Erickson9610 on October 9, 2023 6:11AM
  • Tyrant_Tim
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    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    How do you have WW's interact with the changes?

    This is a question that the development team needs to ask more. Werewolves are limited to using only Werewolf abilities, so this spellcrafting system would do nothing for them.

    Ask yourself, how does Boundless Storm benefit Sorc WW, and you’ll find the answer you’re looking for. It’s as simple as crafting spells that have long durations to carry over when you transform, or spells to increase your survivability when you fall out of Werewolf form.

    Serious Werewolf players know how to manage their timer and do not fall out of form. The Werewolf playstyle is entirely encapsulated within the skill line, which means that non-Werewolf abilities with durations will fall off and won't be refreshed.

    Unless we are allowed to slot Spellcrafting skills on our Werewolf bar, it is considered inaccessible to werewolves.

    It’s all about choice. You’re opting to abandon all of your other skills when entering Werewolf form, it’s not like you were forced, nor was the spec killed off with the additions of Fighter’s Guild, Mage’s Guild, Undaunted, both of the Alliance skill lines and Psijic Order, I’m sure the spec would survive Spellcrafting.

    Not to mention how much better your Werewolf would survive in a group with someone using new Restoration spells.

    And hey, if you want to use Spells as a Werewolf, I would love access to Hircine’s Rage as a Human. My Necromancer’s been looking for a better source of Major Brutality, and the Major Berserk would be pretty nice too! 😁
    Edited by Tyrant_Tim on October 9, 2023 6:28AM
  • Bobargus
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    I want the spellcrafting skill lines of each magic school (especially the conjuration), and a thu'um skill line.
  • Shagreth
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    Spellcrafting is the worst thing I can think of... even worse than the Endless Archive.
    Bad take. Endless Archive is amazing.
  • FabresFour
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    Honestly: Spellcrafting has been my dream since this game came out and they announced. I was in the live stream... And honestly - I don't even expect anything too complex anymore. (I mean, even the justice system was nerfed, compared to what they presented on live.)

    If they released a simple system where you only released a few extra elemental and spellcasting spells, like in Skyrim, I would be satisfied.

    The problem is that even this is too complex a system, apparently.

    Frankly, ESO fans tire me out a little. There's always this talk of "don't add x content, it will unbalance the game!"

    Well, let it be unbalanced, it's not the end of the world! Then it balances again. It's much better to have a game packed with new, interesting, and different content than the same content being rebalanced and rebalanced again and again over and over again over the course of years and years.

    Frankly, being against new content out of fear of how it will affect the game's balance is so sad. It's because of things like this that really relevant content takes so long to be released, from my perspective.

    Normally any player of any mmorpg would be very excited about the idea of ​​a unique and exclusive magic system for their game. But the people of this community have a preciousness for "balance" that makes me very sad. :T
    @FabresFour - 1970 CP
    Director and creator of the unofficial translation of The Elder Scrolls Online into BR-Portuguese.
  • Erickson9610
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    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    It’s all about choice. You’re opting to abandon all of your other skills when entering Werewolf form, it’s not like you were forced, nor was the spec killed off with the additions of Fighter’s Guild, Mage’s Guild, Undaunted, both of the Alliance skill lines and Psijic Order, I’m sure the spec would survive Spellcrafting.

    It is a choice to play Werewolf. In fact, it's how unreasonably unfair this choice is compared to any other build choice in the game that has Werewolf players groaning over the idea of new skills being added for everyone except them to be able to use against them.

    Most people would prefer to pick Vampire instead of Werewolf because they aren't abandoning all of their other skills with that choice. You get to have a class identity with one curse but not with another.
    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    Not to mention how much better your Werewolf would survive in a group with someone using new Restoration spells.

    This doesn't help solo players, but I will admit that werewolves do need help with their healing, because it is too expensive to be sustainable. More on that with my next point below.
    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    And hey, if you want to use Spells as a Werewolf, I would love access to Hircine’s Rage as a Human. My Necromancer’s been looking for a better source of Major Brutality, and the Major Berserk would be pretty nice too! 😁

    You can slot Hircine's Bounty and its morphs on your human form bar right now. That way, you'll have passive Major Brutality and Sorcery. Werewolves can't slot non-Werewolf skills, but the non-Werewolf form can slot Werewolf skills.

    Also, good luck proccing Major Berserk with Hircine's Rage. You have to be at 100% Health to get Major Berserk, at which point you take 5% extra damage for the duration, but if you're at less than 100% Health, you'll waste 5063 Magicka, which is ridiculously expensive for a spec that cannot recover Magicka with heavy attacks or abilities.

    Since you're playing a non-Werewolf, I suggest you use Wrecking Blow for Major Berserk, and one of the Momentum morphs for Major Brutality and Sorcery. If you don't like Two Handed weapons, then you might consider Degeneration from the Mages Guild skill line instead of Momentum.
  • BenTSG
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    Spell crafting did seem like a very cool concept when I watched the video of it's tease during an ...E3? Segment? I forgot when it was, but it looked cool. I would be all for seeing it finally see the light of day, but as many have said, I wouldn't be surprised if it was watered down or seriously lacking what they had once shown.

    One 'version' of Spell crafting I could potentially see would be Scrolls. There are in like, every game but nothing here, outside of XP and research. If they wanted to take a lesser (or lazier) path, just add a skill line or whatever and let players craft skill scrolls for the class they are currently playing, that can be used via quickslot to cast said spell, letting players briefly use other class spells. It'd probably suck, especially compared to what was once shown though.

    Still, all we can do is wait and see. I'd say it's arguably more plausible to happen now, with the schedule change up to make the Q4 updates new 'Tentpole' systems, so they'd have a whole Q to work on it and put in all the effort they can instead of throwing a half assed version alongside a chapter.
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