Please stop adding achievements and leads to tales of tribute

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't understand why there is such a focus on giving players a reason to try new content. Why not just put a wide variety of activities out there and let players engage in the ones they find interesting? Why try to force interest where there is none?

Because some people will end up really glad they were encouraged to do an activity. They will find things they never knew they liked. And that is good for the health of those activities, because without players those activities will suffer.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't understand why there is such a focus on giving players a reason to try new content. Why not just put a wide variety of activities out there and let players engage in the ones they find interesting? Why try to force interest where there is none?

Because some people will end up really glad they were encouraged to do an activity. They will find things they never knew they liked. And that is good for the health of those activities, because without players those activities will suffer.

And some will feel resentful and even miss out completely, like those that refuse to play ToT because they have no interest in it.

If a player wants to try something new they will on their own, just like I did. I never used to run dungeons but now I do, both normal and veteran, because I felt a desire to try it. Not because there were leads in them or other such incentives.

If an activity needs to lock leads or other things within them to get players to try them the issue is with the activity not appealing to a wider audience. That is what should be looked at.

spartaxoxo

Players won't try every new thing they might like. I saw plenty of comments over the years of rewards helping people to find things they enjoyed.

"I used to be against Tales because it was a card game, but I played it for the lead and it was more fun than I thought it would be."

"I didn't want to go into PvP because I was scared to try it. But then I decided to give it a shot because of the event, and now I like it!"

"I didn't want to do dungeons because I didn't have a guild and didn't want one. But then I needed a monster helm, so I gave it a try. And now it's one of my favorite things to do."

Someone who didn't want to try because they assumed they would not like it, and then discovered they were right and didn't like it, don't change the population. They weren't interested before giving it a try, and they aren't after. But the ones that changed their minds are new players for that content. And new players are necessary for all forms of content to keep it healthy.

You can address the people who didn't enjoy it by simply increasing the drop rate. They can also just miss out. A person who wants every nice thing in the game, of which there are hundreds, should expect to play all content.

ESO_player123

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't understand why there is such a focus on giving players a reason to try new content. Why not just put a wide variety of activities out there and let players engage in the ones they find interesting? Why try to force interest where there is none?

I do not do trials but would love to get my hands on some of the sets. I do like picking flowers though. Should I get a chance to get trial sets from flowers?

SilverBride

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't understand why there is such a focus on giving players a reason to try new content. Why not just put a wide variety of activities out there and let players engage in the ones they find interesting? Why try to force interest where there is none?

I do not do trials but would love to get my hands on some of the sets. I do like picking flowers though. Should I get a chance to get trial sets from flowers?

My statement has absolutely nothing to do with trial gear sets, nor have I even hinted that trial gear should drop anywhere other than a trial.

My point is that players will choose themselves which features they wish to participate in and they should not be forced into trying features they have no interest in by locking a lead for a completely unrelated item in it.

ESO_player123

SilverBride wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't understand why there is such a focus on giving players a reason to try new content. Why not just put a wide variety of activities out there and let players engage in the ones they find interesting? Why try to force interest where there is none?

I do not do trials but would love to get my hands on some of the sets. I do like picking flowers though. Should I get a chance to get trial sets from flowers?

My statement has absolutely nothing to do with trial gear sets, nor have I even hinted that trial gear should drop anywhere other than a trial.

My point is that players will choose themselves which features they wish to participate in and they should not be forced into trying features they have no interest in by locking a lead for a completely unrelated item in it.

But that is the same thing. Some rewards are locked behind content that some people find boring or too difficult to complete. It does not mean that these rewards (be it a gear or a lead) should be added to a different activity in the game. If anything, the drop rate should be increased for the leads (as someone previously suggested).

SilverBride

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

My statement has absolutely nothing to do with trial gear sets, nor have I even hinted that trial gear should drop anywhere other than a trial.

My point is that players will choose themselves which features they wish to participate in and they should not be forced into trying features they have no interest in by locking a lead for a completely unrelated item in it.

But that is the same thing. Some rewards are locked behind content that some people find boring or too difficult to complete. It does not mean that these rewards (be it a gear or a lead) should be added to a different activity in the game. If anything, the drop rate should be increased for the leads (as someone previously suggested).

It is not the same thing at all. Trial gear being locked within a trial makes sense. A lead for a music box that has zero connection to ToT is pushing players toward content they have not chosen to participate in themselves.

ESO_player123

SilverBride wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

My statement has absolutely nothing to do with trial gear sets, nor have I even hinted that trial gear should drop anywhere other than a trial.

My point is that players will choose themselves which features they wish to participate in and they should not be forced into trying features they have no interest in by locking a lead for a completely unrelated item in it.

But that is the same thing. Some rewards are locked behind content that some people find boring or too difficult to complete. It does not mean that these rewards (be it a gear or a lead) should be added to a different activity in the game. If anything, the drop rate should be increased for the leads (as someone previously suggested).

It is not the same thing at all. Trial gear being locked within a trial makes sense. A lead for a music box that has zero connection to ToT is pushing players toward content they have not chosen to participate in themselves.

I'm afraid we have to agree to disagree on this one.

LunaFlora

katanagirl1 wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

and btw Endless Archive has a merchant named Ool who sells different things every week including treasure maps and antiquity leads.

I haven't even tried the Endless Archive on PTS yet-- not that I'm not interested in it, because I am; I just generally avoid the PTS so I don't "spoil" anything for myself. How much do things cost from the merchant? Is it purchasable strictly with a new currency from the Endless Archive, or is it like the Golden in Cyrodiil where we can use gold as an alternative?

https://eso-hub.com/en/news/a-look-at-the-rewards-and-items-inside-the-endless-archive-in-eso

in the first week of update 40 on pts the antiquity leads cost 5000 Archival Fortunes, not sure if it has changed

So how much time grinding does this amount of currency take?

Sorry if it was mentioned earlier and I missed it.

"An all-new currency introduced exclusively within the Endless Archive, Archival Fortunes can be found within Muniment Chests (appearing at the end of each Cycle, Arc, and bonus encounter) along with assorted gold, items, and soul gems."

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/64891#:~:text=An all-new currency introduced,, items, and soul gems.

The optional quests “A Bookbinder's Bind” and “Restoring the Resurrected” will now award 500 Archival Fortunes, up from 100.

The daily quest “Restorer of Theories” will now award 500 Archival Fortunes the first time you complet this quest per day, per account.
Additional completions on other characters in the same day will continue to award 100 Archival Fortunes.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644544/pts-patch-notes-v9-2-3#latest

ProudMary

I'm still mystified as to why ZOS dedicated dev time to ToT in the first place. Who builds a $2,000 plus dollar computer that uses 600 watts of power continuous for gaming to play a card game?

spartaxoxo

ProudMary wrote: »

I'm still mystified as to why ZOS dedicated dev time to ToT in the first place. Who builds a $2,000 plus dollar computer that uses 600 watts of power continuous for gaming to play a card game?

Lots of people. Card games are popular enough that there's a couple that are whole esports. Not to mention, they are a common side activity in RPGs. One of those, Gwent, got it's start as a side activity in a single player RPG (The Witcher). The developers were open about wanting to focus on some non-combat related activities. We later came to discover this was when they were at the time working on the replacing the servers and the server re-architecture. As a result we got two non-combat features that people had been asking for, for a while. Companions and a tavern mini-game. People had wanted to be able to play dice, cards, or some other mini-game in taverns for a while. Tales was their answers to that feature request.

katanagirl1

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't understand why there is such a focus on giving players a reason to try new content. Why not just put a wide variety of activities out there and let players engage in the ones they find interesting? Why try to force interest where there is none?

Because some people will end up really glad they were encouraged to do an activity. They will find things they never knew they liked. And that is good for the health of those activities, because without players those activities will suffer.

Very true. I didn’t think I would like the card game, but I did enjoy it at first. Then they put achievements behind PvP games and the crappy lead so I just don’t have the time or motivation to do that anymore.

Midyear Mayhen got me hooked on PvP in Cyrodiil, it is now my favorite activity even more than trials and group dungeons. I didn’t like going to Cyrodiil to get Vigor on my first stamina toon, but working together with others to take a keep was the most satisfying thing I ever did in this game.

spartaxoxo

katanagirl1 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't understand why there is such a focus on giving players a reason to try new content. Why not just put a wide variety of activities out there and let players engage in the ones they find interesting? Why try to force interest where there is none?

Because some people will end up really glad they were encouraged to do an activity. They will find things they never knew they liked. And that is good for the health of those activities, because without players those activities will suffer.

Very true. I didn’t think I would like the card game, but I did enjoy it at first. Then they put achievements behind PvP games and the crappy lead so I just don’t have the time or motivation to do that anymore.

Midyear Mayhen got me hooked on PvP in Cyrodiil, it is now my favorite activity even more than trials and group dungeons. I didn’t like going to Cyrodiil to get Vigor on my first stamina toon, but working together with others to take a keep was the most satisfying thing I ever did in this game.

You can get the Tales lead from PvE games too, FYI. I'm glad you enjoyed your experience in Cyrodiil! That place is definitely much more enjoyable when you have a group.

katanagirl1

spartaxoxo wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't understand why there is such a focus on giving players a reason to try new content. Why not just put a wide variety of activities out there and let players engage in the ones they find interesting? Why try to force interest where there is none?

Because some people will end up really glad they were encouraged to do an activity. They will find things they never knew they liked. And that is good for the health of those activities, because without players those activities will suffer.

Very true. I didn’t think I would like the card game, but I did enjoy it at first. Then they put achievements behind PvP games and the crappy lead so I just don’t have the time or motivation to do that anymore.

Midyear Mayhen got me hooked on PvP in Cyrodiil, it is now my favorite activity even more than trials and group dungeons. I didn’t like going to Cyrodiil to get Vigor on my first stamina toon, but working together with others to take a keep was the most satisfying thing I ever did in this game.

You can get the Tales lead from PvE games too, FYI. I'm glad you enjoyed your experience in Cyrodiil! That place is definitely much more enjoyable when you have a group.

Yeah I did play the npcs but no luck so far.

I actually like Cyrodiil solo so I can defend, no one in groups will do it.

M0ntie

Agree with the OP. I didn't buy this MMO years ago to play a card game so I don't play ToT. I tried it and hated it.

SaffronCitrusflower

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

I'm still mystified as to why ZOS dedicated dev time to ToT in the first place. Who builds a $2,000 plus dollar computer that uses 600 watts of power continuous for gaming to play a card game?

Lots of people. Card games are popular enough that there's a couple that are whole esports. Not to mention, they are a common side activity in RPGs. One of those, Gwent, got it's start as a side activity in a single player RPG (The Witcher). The developers were open about wanting to focus on some non-combat related activities. We later came to discover this was when they were at the time working on the replacing the servers and the server re-architecture. As a result we got two non-combat features that people had been asking for, for a while. Companions and a tavern mini-game. People had wanted to be able to play dice, cards, or some other mini-game in taverns for a while. Tales was their answers to that feature request.

I think your wrong. People build gaming computers for gaming, not playing small apps they can play on their phones.

Please link to the forum posts of people requesting a card game. I remember people requesting more tavern games, but I don't recall anyone requesting anything remotely similar to ToT or anyone requesting that leads and other things be locked behind the card game. People were requesting short, easy distractions. Not a complicated, mostly RNG based game that takes weeks to learn and hours to play.

spartaxoxo

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

I'm still mystified as to why ZOS dedicated dev time to ToT in the first place. Who builds a $2,000 plus dollar computer that uses 600 watts of power continuous for gaming to play a card game?

Lots of people. Card games are popular enough that there's a couple that are whole esports. Not to mention, they are a common side activity in RPGs. One of those, Gwent, got it's start as a side activity in a single player RPG (The Witcher). The developers were open about wanting to focus on some non-combat related activities. We later came to discover this was when they were at the time working on the replacing the servers and the server re-architecture. As a result we got two non-combat features that people had been asking for, for a while. Companions and a tavern mini-game. People had wanted to be able to play dice, cards, or some other mini-game in taverns for a while. Tales was their answers to that feature request.

I think your wrong. People build gaming computers for gaming, not playing small apps they can play on their phones.

Please link to the forum posts of people requesting a card game. I remember people requesting more tavern games, but I don't recall anyone requesting anything remotely similar to ToT or anyone requesting that leads and other things be locked behind the card game. People were requesting short, easy distractions. Not a complicated, mostly RNG based game that takes weeks to learn and hours to play.

Here's some examples, along with a couple example comments although there are other comments within these threads as well. You'll notice that some of these come from as early as like 2015.

Note: The following thread specifically talk about ones like ESO legends, which is also a complicated card game. Although not all of these are in this thread that I saw over the years, this was a common comparison, alongside Gwent. Although others did make simpler comparisons like poker, others wanted more elaborate experiences like Gwent, Legends, and Hearthstone. There was not a universal vision for what a card game should be like.

Beardimus wrote: »

There just needs to be more mini games, in general. Races, cards, dice, gambling etc. Be cool in the inns

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/390631/do-you-want-a-card-game-in-eso-like-esl#Comment_4791522

Note: emphasis mine

MakoFore wrote: »

minigames in the pubs n bars would be awesome. they need to turn them into social centres, where we can go gamble, watch fist fights, play ESO legends against each other, etc, etc.
still alot of work to be done in this game i feel for it to really satisfy its potential

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384699/can-we-add-more-mini-game-chest-poker/p2#Comment_5812224

VoidBlue wrote: »

they should add mini games something fun to do while not wanting to quest or what not.

like a card game or something

it will not only add content as you will have to go out and find/win (poor,good,great,rare) cards from NPCs/chests but you get to play against NPCs and players

and than add like a trading system with a card merchant where you can turn in so and so many (poor) cards for a better grade card.

how amazing would that be!!!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/195379/add-mini-games-d#Comment_2022143

Note: emphasis mine

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Being as the Elder Scrolls series has pretty much always been more adult oriented, in the sense of murder and adult themed mayhem - shouldn't it stand to reason that more of these things of which are bad for us should hold a staple in ESO?

Wouldn't it be just a little more robust if you could get your character drunk? Have them smoke a cigar or a pipe? Wander in to a nearby inn and lose a small fortune on cards or dice?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/144642/vice-drinking-smoking-gambling-oh-my#Comment_1450050

Note this thread is closed so couldn't link to it directly.

The cards would be nice addition to game, any minigame in main game is welcome.
For now though we have to play games like lizard race without betting anything but for quest only, which is boring. I want to bet with gold for my best lizard and breed my own lizard and use it for race .
Anyway card game and betting on gold would also be fine, but is it legal?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/355921/elder-scrolls-online-in-game-card-game

imaslowlearner

Right now I'm doing the npc daily quest for the purple reward box on 2 characters daily

4/10
and
5/10

for card conjurer & spearhead


people might not agree on my first couple posts, but they really should look into increasing the quantity of rewards people get and the drop rate of certain things since this mini game is so time consuming

maybe tie it to the Roister's Club ranks, higher ranks ---> better rewards.

bulbousb16_ESO

M0ntie wrote: »

Agree with the OP. I didn't buy this MMO years ago to play a card game so I don't play ToT. I tried it and hated it.didn't understand it.

Fixed.

BlackRaidho

M0ntie wrote: »

Agree with the OP. I didn't buy this MMO years ago to play a card game so I don't play ToT. I tried it and hated it.

To be honest, the tutorial is garbage. I didn't understand the game rules with it... I asked a guild mate to introduce me ToT.

boi_anachronism_

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

Agree with the OP. I didn't buy this MMO years ago to play a card game so I don't play ToT. I tried it and hated it.didn't understand it.

Fixed.

I mean idk. You can play it and just not like it. By the time i actually got the lead i was pretty damn good but i still dont like it and certainly dont go out of my way to play lol

fizzylu

I do not enjoy ToT. It isn't the worst thing on the planet, but there are so many things I'd rather be doing. Sadly for me, I like a lot of the things locked behind ToT achievements.... at this point, I'm currently trying to get all the card upgrades and of course they are RNG rewards like pretty much everything else in this game. I thought I would attempt to do ranked hoping that the drop chance for clues would increase, and then I realized that some people take soooo long to play their hands. I ended up conceding one match just because I might as well have been falling asleep while this one player took their turns and I swore to never do ranked again. Really wish Zenimax would reduce the time people have for turns and maybe if ToT was an actual mini game instead of a whole commitment within ESO, more people would actually enjoy it. Also would be cool if there was an actual point to challenging players and friends.... the fact that you get nothing from doing so really just kills this "mini game" even more.

MidniteOwl1913

imaslowlearner wrote: »

Right now I'm doing the npc daily quest for the purple reward box on 2 characters daily

4/10
and
5/10

for card conjurer & spearhead


people might not agree on my first couple posts, but they really should look into increasing the quantity of rewards people get and the drop rate of certain things since this mini game is so time consuming

maybe tie it to the Roister's Club ranks, higher ranks ---> better rewards.

I agree. I've been playing 6-18 games a day for weeks and I've only got 5/10 and 7/10. This is the worst drop rate I've seen in the game, and that includes the watchling lead. And yes it is a hideous time sink.

KalevaLaine

Old topic - but a question.

I have managed to learn this unfunny game cuz I need the lead from the daily rewards. How many dailies need this? I play it every day with several chars, probably about 80 dailies now - no lead.

Any experiences?

prettykitty20034

KalevaLaine wrote: »

Old topic - but a question.

I have managed to learn this unfunny game cuz I need the lead from the daily rewards. How many dailies need this? I play it every day with several chars, probably about 80 dailies now - no lead.

Any experiences?

I am in the same boat. Started trying for the music box lead a few weeks ago, both pvp and ai quests on at least two toons daily. Well over a hundred games. No music box lead. The drop rate is abysmal. I'm hoping the endless archive vendor has it soon so that I can get my box and stop this torture.

Araneae6537

I agree that antiquities shouldn’t be behind ToT unless they are ToT related, just like companions don’t gate anything not having to do with companions, and you don’t get companion gear drop unless you have one active.

I’m still waiting on the music box lead from Filer Ool as well… It would be lovely if he had more than two available each week.

ESO_player123

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I agree that antiquities shouldn’t be behind ToT unless they are ToT related, just like companions don’t gate anything not having to do with companions, and you don’t get companion gear drop unless you have one active.

I’m still waiting on the music box lead from Filer Ool as well… It would be lovely if he had more than two available each week.

I think this ship sailed already since they also recently added a lead to a HoF that is required for completing the West Weald. So, in the future we can expect leads to show up in a bunch of unrelated places (and not all of us are going to like them).

Araneae6537

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I agree that antiquities shouldn’t be behind ToT unless they are ToT related, just like companions don’t gate anything not having to do with companions, and you don’t get companion gear drop unless you have one active.

I’m still waiting on the music box lead from Filer Ool as well… It would be lovely if he had more than two available each week.

I think this ship sailed already since they also recently added a lead to a HoF that is required for completing the West Weald. So, in the future we can expect leads to show up in a bunch of unrelated places (and not all of us are going to like them).

You are probably right about that, but I think it’s ridiculous, especially since antiquities are required for the overall zone achievement (which I don’t believe they should be but should remain their own reward).

I love companions but don’t believe they should be included in zone completion, even though they don’t require access to any other chapter or DLC. It is good that they remain optional content with no penalty for players who have no desire to engage with the system. I had thought that ToT was going to be like that as well.

I think move such as this, putting leads behind terrible treasure map RNG, dilution of new furnishing plan droprates with old plans, among other things, will foster player resentment rather than engagement.

allochthons

ESO_player123 wrote: »

I think this ship sailed already since they also recently added a lead to a HoF that is required for completing the West Weald. So, in the future we can expect leads to show up in a bunch of unrelated places (and not all of us are going to like them).

The difference here is that the HoF lead drop is near, if not 100%. As is the one in Volenfell. 1 nHoF through the group finder isn't as bad as 100+ games of ToT.

I played ToT when it came out. Liked it fine. Not my fave, but a decent way to spend a bit of empty time. Then I had to take a break from the game, and when I came back, there were so many new decks that almost everything I'd learned before was useless. And I look at the new decks now, and I just get tired. I am an achievement hunter, but I'll never get that music box.

ESO_player123

allochthons wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

I think this ship sailed already since they also recently added a lead to a HoF that is required for completing the West Weald. So, in the future we can expect leads to show up in a bunch of unrelated places (and not all of us are going to like them).

The difference here is that the HoF lead drop is near, if not 100%. As is the one in Volenfell. 1 nHoF through the group finder isn't as bad as 100+ games of ToT.

I played ToT when it came out. Liked it fine. Not my fave, but a decent way to spend a bit of empty time. Then I had to take a break from the game, and when I came back, there were so many new decks that almost everything I'd learned before was useless. And I look at the new decks now, and I just get tired. I am an achievement hunter, but I'll never get that music box.

It's a matter of preference though. I prefer playing ToT to running trials. A bad drop rate is not unique to ToT. Only in West Weald the leads seem to be showing up on the first/second try (except the one from the daily coffers). Before that, one could have spent countless times tying to get the lead that was needed.