Please stop adding achievements and leads to tales of tribute

Nilandia

SilverBride wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

we'll be able to buy antiquity leads from Ool the watcher in Endless Archive. that's a second source

What if we think the Endless Archive is the worst thing they have ever added to the game and don't want to use it? I can't think of anything worse than an arena except an arena that doesn't even let you save your progress. This is not an option for me.

Meanwhile other people (such as myself) are absolutely enchanted by the endless archive. I've run it a few times on the PTS with a buddy and I plan on visiting frequently when it hits live. Already have a few runs lined up with friends.

The alternative lead source is there. Doesn't necessarily mean that every person will like the alternative, but there are those who do.

SilverBride

Nilandia wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

we'll be able to buy antiquity leads from Ool the watcher in Endless Archive. that's a second source

What if we think the Endless Archive is the worst thing they have ever added to the game and don't want to use it? I can't think of anything worse than an arena except an arena that doesn't even let you save your progress. This is not an option for me.

Meanwhile other people (such as myself) are absolutely enchanted by the endless archive. I've run it a few times on the PTS with a buddy and I plan on visiting frequently when it hits live. Already have a few runs lined up with friends.

The alternative lead source is there. Doesn't necessarily mean that every person will like the alternative, but there are those who do.

So the rest of us that don't enjoy ToT or spending hours at a time in an arena are just out of luck?

This trend is not going to bring more players into new content. It is more likely to have the negative effect of turning them even further away.

If this is really "play as you want" then there should be 3 or 4 different sources for each lead, so that more play styles are taken into consideration.

Necrotech_Master

the only problem with adding in more sources is that people who actually want the lead are just going to more than likely farm the easiest source of the lead

like if you have a lead that can come from a delve, DLC dungeon, trial, and tribute then i bet that 99% of the lead drops will come from the delve boss because that is statistically the easiest

people who like doing trials, dungeons, or tribute may get lucky and get the lead from there, but i doubt anyone would likely specifically try to farm a lead from any of those activities as they take actual effort where there is none to kill a delve boss

edit: what they should do is just significantly increase the drop chances of the leads

Braffin

SilverBride wrote: »

Nilandia wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

we'll be able to buy antiquity leads from Ool the watcher in Endless Archive. that's a second source

What if we think the Endless Archive is the worst thing they have ever added to the game and don't want to use it? I can't think of anything worse than an arena except an arena that doesn't even let you save your progress. This is not an option for me.

Meanwhile other people (such as myself) are absolutely enchanted by the endless archive. I've run it a few times on the PTS with a buddy and I plan on visiting frequently when it hits live. Already have a few runs lined up with friends.

The alternative lead source is there. Doesn't necessarily mean that every person will like the alternative, but there are those who do.

So the rest of us that don't enjoy ToT or spending hours at a time in an arena are just out of luck?

This trend is not going to bring more players into new content. It is more likely to have the negative effect of turning them even further away.

If this is really "play as you want" then there should be 3 or 4 different sources for each lead, so that more play styles are taken into consideration.

There are two options now to get your leads up from only one.

If you want every single lead tied to specific content (like putting all leads into delves for most easy access possible), just say so.

I for myself am happy, that the general playerbase will get more options with U40.

spartaxoxo

I think Endless Archive is a really fair solution. It makes the lead being in whatever content that happens to have it the best source for that lead, because it's not random. But, if you really, really can't stand the content, there is an alternative. It's like the PvE equivalent of the golden vendor.

spartaxoxo

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

people who like doing trials, dungeons, or tribute may get lucky and get the lead from there, but i doubt anyone would likely specifically try to farm a lead from any of those activities as they take actual effort where there is none to kill a delve boss

edit: what they should do is just significantly increase the drop chances of the leads

1000% agree with this. If you put in the delve everyone will flock to the delve regardless if they even like delves because it's the easiest source. It would defeat the entire purpose of putting it anywhere else.

However, the drop chance should be significantly higher. There's nothing wrong with incentives to have people give new content a try every now and then. But, you don't want to have players spend days and weeks in content they don't like just because the drop chance is super low.

SilverBride

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only problem with adding in more sources is that people who actually want the lead are just going to more than likely farm the easiest source of the lead.

Or farm the content that they actually enjoy.

I recently had to play 42 games of ToT to get a lead for a music box that had absolutely no connection to ToT. It was completely unenjoyable and I didn't gain anything positive from the experience. I would have much rather farmed a World Boss or Dungeon for this lead because these are activities I enjoy.

We need multiple sources for leads... reasonable choices, not just activities such as ToT that few players even participate in, or hours long arenas.

Also, what is wrong with players choosing the easiest source for a lead? Where is it written that everything has to be a struggle? Or that players should find struggling enjoyable?

DarcyMardin

Fortunately I don’t feel the need to complete everything, since nothing is going to induce me to play a card game in an MMO. For those who enjoy that content, have fun.

Necrotech_Master

SilverBride wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the only problem with adding in more sources is that people who actually want the lead are just going to more than likely farm the easiest source of the lead.

Or farm the content that they actually enjoy.

I recently had to play 42 games of ToT to get a lead for a music box that had absolutely no connection to ToT. It was completely unenjoyable and I didn't gain anything positive from the experience. I would have much rather farmed a World Boss or Dungeon for this lead because these are activities I enjoy.

We need multiple sources for leads... reasonable choices, not just activities such as ToT that few players even participate in, or hours long arenas.

Also, what is wrong with players choosing the easiest source for a lead? Where is it written that everything has to be a struggle? Or that players should find struggling enjoyable?

if players always choose the path of least resistance, why erect the other paths to begin with and just put the lead in the 1 location?

i got the first tribute lead on my first purple box, but thats sheer luck, it took you 42 boxes, thats bad luck and i feel bad that it took so long

i think most leads end up being closer to like a 10 or maybe 15% drop chance for the first drop, reasonably high but doesnt stop the long streaks of bad luck some get, if that chance were like 50% for at least the first lead drop, it would be very very unlikely to say have to play 42 games to get it at least on the first attempt (if you wanted all the codex entries you would have to put in some more work)

SeaGtGruff

LunaFlora wrote: »

and btw Endless Archive has a merchant named Ool who sells different things every week including treasure maps and antiquity leads.

I haven't even tried the Endless Archive on PTS yet-- not that I'm not interested in it, because I am; I just generally avoid the PTS so I don't "spoil" anything for myself. How much do things cost from the merchant? Is it purchasable strictly with a new currency from the Endless Archive, or is it like the Golden in Cyrodiil where we can use gold as an alternative?

Necrotech_Master

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

and btw Endless Archive has a merchant named Ool who sells different things every week including treasure maps and antiquity leads.

I haven't even tried the Endless Archive on PTS yet-- not that I'm not interested in it, because I am; I just generally avoid the PTS so I don't "spoil" anything for myself. How much do things cost from the merchant? Is it purchasable strictly with a new currency from the Endless Archive, or is it like the Golden in Cyrodiil where we can use gold as an alternative?

i believe its only the endless archive currency, but as i havent been on the PTS, i dont know the costs either (from a few screenshots things looked "expensive" compared to what you earn though)

SilverBride

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Also, what is wrong with players choosing the easiest source for a lead? Where is it written that everything has to be a struggle? Or that players should find struggling enjoyable?

if players always choose the path of least resistance, why erect the other paths to begin with and just put the lead in the 1 location?

Because players like different things.

One player may enjoy ToT and do the dailies every day, and not want to run a dungeon or any of the other choices. For them playing ToT may be the easiest and most enjoyable choice.

For others who dislike ToT or have never even played it a dungeon may be the easiest and most enjoyable choice for them.

Giving a few different activities ensures that more players can enjoy earning these antiquities.

katanagirl1

I plan to try the Endless Archive for leads and just because I like to try to do all the content myself for achievements. I am just a little concerned because I am unable to keep up a rotation for long right now due to pain in my right hand. I hope I am not farming the first level ad nauseam.

I don’t know how many ToT matches I did, maybe 40, but I did not get the lead. I’m done with that until I read somewhere on the forums here that the drop rate has been increased. While I am a completionist, I’m okay with the fact that the lead is in a part of the game that I don’t partake of on a daily basis.

I agree that increasing the drop rate is the best way to fox it. The EA lead purchase is just a band-aid on the problem in the same way random furnishing envelopes for furniture plans does not fix the ridiculously low drop rate of the plans, especially purple plans and most especially purple dlc zone plans.

SeaGtGruff

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

and btw Endless Archive has a merchant named Ool who sells different things every week including treasure maps and antiquity leads.

I haven't even tried the Endless Archive on PTS yet-- not that I'm not interested in it, because I am; I just generally avoid the PTS so I don't "spoil" anything for myself. How much do things cost from the merchant? Is it purchasable strictly with a new currency from the Endless Archive, or is it like the Golden in Cyrodiil where we can use gold as an alternative?

i believe its only the endless archive currency, but as i havent been on the PTS, i dont know the costs either (from a few screenshots things looked "expensive" compared to what you earn though)

That's what I was expecting (afraid of). Things purchased with special currencies-- Writ Vouchers, Tel Var, Alliance Points, etc.-- usually have fairly hefty price tags, at least the good stuff does.

Necrotech_Master

SilverBride wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Also, what is wrong with players choosing the easiest source for a lead? Where is it written that everything has to be a struggle? Or that players should find struggling enjoyable?

if players always choose the path of least resistance, why erect the other paths to begin with and just put the lead in the 1 location?

Because players like different things.

One player may enjoy ToT and do the dailies every day, and not want to run a dungeon or any of the other choices. For them playing ToT may be the easiest and most enjoyable choice.

For others who dislike ToT or have never even played it a dungeon may be the easiest and most enjoyable choice for them.

Giving a few different activities ensures that more players can enjoy earning these antiquities.

yes, but like in the example i gave (a lead drop from tribute, delve, DLC group dungeon, and a trial), what do you think the vast majority of players are going to get the lead from? likely the delve if they do not like tribute, or even if they do like tribute there could be drop rate difference between the sources

using the example, the devs could think that because a delve and tribute are easy, the chance to get the lead is very low, while the dungeon is harder it could be so much higher it would be easier to get the lead from the dungeon than tribute or a delve

if the chance were equal, would you have wanted to do 42 tribute matches or 42 dungeon runs to get the lead? (which goes to show having it in multiple sources wont help bad RNG)

i am fine with it coming from 1 source, but they seriously got to increase the drop chances of said lead (especially for treasure maps, i dislike those leads the most because they cannot really be "farmed" without buying maps)

SilverBride

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Because players like different things.

One player may enjoy ToT and do the dailies every day, and not want to run a dungeon or any of the other choices. For them playing ToT may be the easiest and most enjoyable choice.

For others who dislike ToT or have never even played it a dungeon may be the easiest and most enjoyable choice for them.

Giving a few different activities ensures that more players can enjoy earning these antiquities.

yes, but like in the example i gave (a lead drop from tribute, delve, DLC group dungeon, and a trial), what do you think the vast majority of players are going to get the lead from? likely the delve if they do not like tribute, or even if they do like tribute there could be drop rate difference between the sources

I've yet to see a reason given for why players choosing activities they enjoy is a bad thing.

As far as the drop rate difference, there shouldn't be one in the first place. Give all sources an equal drop rate and let players choose which activity they prefer. And the drop rate should never be that low in the first place. 42 games of ToT or dungeon runs or any other activity is way too low a drop rate.

This is a game and isn't the main purpose of a game to have fun?

LunaFlora

SilverBride wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

we'll be able to buy antiquity leads from Ool the watcher in Endless Archive. that's a second source

What if we think the Endless Archive is the worst thing they have ever added to the game and don't want to use it? I can't think of anything worse than an arena except an arena that doesn't even let you save your progress. This is not an option for me.

hey you've already told me that. i already know you don't like the Endless Archive.

the comment you're quoting is one i made to tell someone that there'll be a second source for antiquity leads.

SilverBride

LunaFlora wrote: »

hey you've already told me that. i already know you don't like the Endless Archive.

the comment you're quoting is one i made to tell someone that there'll be a second source for antiquity leads.

I was making the point that the Endless Archive is not a reasonable second source for a lot of players. It is nothing more than a long tedious grind in an arena that players can't even save their progress in. There is no way I will subject myself to that kind of torture for a lead.

This is why they need to give additional sources for leads that will include activities that will appeal to more play styles.

Necrotech_Master

SilverBride wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Because players like different things.

One player may enjoy ToT and do the dailies every day, and not want to run a dungeon or any of the other choices. For them playing ToT may be the easiest and most enjoyable choice.

For others who dislike ToT or have never even played it a dungeon may be the easiest and most enjoyable choice for them.

Giving a few different activities ensures that more players can enjoy earning these antiquities.

yes, but like in the example i gave (a lead drop from tribute, delve, DLC group dungeon, and a trial), what do you think the vast majority of players are going to get the lead from? likely the delve if they do not like tribute, or even if they do like tribute there could be drop rate difference between the sources

I've yet to see a reason given for why players choosing activities they enjoy is a bad thing.

As far as the drop rate difference, there shouldn't be one in the first place. Give all sources an equal drop rate and let players choose which activity they prefer. And the drop rate should never be that low in the first place. 42 games of ToT or dungeon runs or any other activity is way too low a drop rate.

This is a game and isn't the main purpose of a game to have fun?

yes it should be to have fun, but you also cant acquire everything from every source, if you dont do trials, you cant get gear from there (or the few antiquities that do only come from trials) for example, the game has always been that way

theres even 1 lead for a furnishing that only comes from battlegrounds, i havent seen anyone bring that up as a problem, but people are complaining incessantly about a lead that only comes from tribute

i fully believe that if the drop rates were significantly increased, that would solve a majority of the problems about complaining of getting a lead from some type of content

there do exist some leads which have multiple drop sources, but in those cases ive only picked the easiest method to get it

LunaFlora

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

and btw Endless Archive has a merchant named Ool who sells different things every week including treasure maps and antiquity leads.

I haven't even tried the Endless Archive on PTS yet-- not that I'm not interested in it, because I am; I just generally avoid the PTS so I don't "spoil" anything for myself. How much do things cost from the merchant? Is it purchasable strictly with a new currency from the Endless Archive, or is it like the Golden in Cyrodiil where we can use gold as an alternative?

https://eso-hub.com/en/news/a-look-at-the-rewards-and-items-inside-the-endless-archive-in-eso

in the first week of update 40 on pts the antiquity leads cost 5000 Archival Fortunes, not sure if it has changed

SilverBride

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

yes it should be to have fun, but you also cant acquire everything from every source, if you dont do trials, you cant get gear from there (or the few antiquities that do only come from trials) for example, the game has always been that way

theres even 1 lead for a furnishing that only comes from battlegrounds, i havent seen anyone bring that up as a problem, but people are complaining incessantly about a lead that only comes from tribute

i fully believe that if the drop rates were significantly increased, that would solve a majority of the problems about complaining of getting a lead from some type of content

there do exist some leads which have multiple drop sources, but in those cases ive only picked the easiest method to get it

I don't have numbers but from what I've read there are way more players running battlegrounds than playing ToT, so I can see why it would not generate as many complaints. On the other hand, ToT is not very well liked by a lot of players and many have never even played it, so to put a lead for it in this card game and at a 2.38% drop rate (which is what my 1 lead in 42 games came out to be) is unreasonable.

And, yes, they do need to significantly increase the drop rates of all sources.

But I still stand behind leads being placed in multiple and a wider variety of activities so more of the playerbase can enjoy finding them.

Necrotech_Master

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

and btw Endless Archive has a merchant named Ool who sells different things every week including treasure maps and antiquity leads.

I haven't even tried the Endless Archive on PTS yet-- not that I'm not interested in it, because I am; I just generally avoid the PTS so I don't "spoil" anything for myself. How much do things cost from the merchant? Is it purchasable strictly with a new currency from the Endless Archive, or is it like the Golden in Cyrodiil where we can use gold as an alternative?

i believe its only the endless archive currency, but as i havent been on the PTS, i dont know the costs either (from a few screenshots things looked "expensive" compared to what you earn though)

That's what I was expecting (afraid of). Things purchased with special currencies-- Writ Vouchers, Tel Var, Alliance Points, etc.-- usually have fairly hefty price tags, at least the good stuff does.

i dont necessarily mind, but it really depends on the relation to rate of earn for currency

things like AP and tel var stack up pretty quickly (at least for myself, i have like 30+ million AP in the bank and 300k+ tel var), but writ vouchers stack up slow since i dont get a lot of master writs (i despise daily writs so i dont get a lot of them myself, i rely on friends who dont enjoy doing writs to send them to me lol)

LunaFlora

SilverBride wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

hey you've already told me that. i already know you don't like the Endless Archive.

the comment you're quoting is one i made to tell someone that there'll be a second source for antiquity leads.

I was making the point that the Endless Archive is not a reasonable second source for a lot of players. It is nothing more than a long tedious grind in an arena that players can't even save their progress in. There is no way I will subject myself to that kind of torture for a lead.

This is why they need to give additional sources for leads that will include activities that will appeal to more play styles.

it is a second source.
third or fourth sources would be great, but it is also great to have a second source.

and not everyone thinks the Endless Archive is the worst thing ever. it's reasonable for us who do like it.
extra reasonable because Endless Archive is available to everyone.

SilverBride

LunaFlora wrote: »

it is a second source.
third or fourth sources would be great, but it is also great to have a second source.

and not everyone thinks the Endless Archive is the worst thing ever. it's reasonable for us who do like it.
extra reasonable because Endless Archive is available to everyone.

Then keep it as a source. And keep ToT as a source. But add more sources so more can enjoy finding them.

Necrotech_Master

LunaFlora wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

hey you've already told me that. i already know you don't like the Endless Archive.

the comment you're quoting is one i made to tell someone that there'll be a second source for antiquity leads.

I was making the point that the Endless Archive is not a reasonable second source for a lot of players. It is nothing more than a long tedious grind in an arena that players can't even save their progress in. There is no way I will subject myself to that kind of torture for a lead.

This is why they need to give additional sources for leads that will include activities that will appeal to more play styles.

it is a second source.
third or fourth sources would be great, but it is also great to have a second source.

and not everyone thinks the Endless Archive is the worst thing ever. it's reasonable for us who do like it.
extra reasonable because Endless Archive is available to everyone.

just a little note, while the archive is available to everyone as a free update, the leads themselves may still require being dug up in a DLC zone, so even though its an alternate source it still is DLC restricted in a way (it would only require 1 DLC instead of multiple at least)

LunaFlora

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

hey you've already told me that. i already know you don't like the Endless Archive.

the comment you're quoting is one i made to tell someone that there'll be a second source for antiquity leads.

I was making the point that the Endless Archive is not a reasonable second source for a lot of players. It is nothing more than a long tedious grind in an arena that players can't even save their progress in. There is no way I will subject myself to that kind of torture for a lead.

This is why they need to give additional sources for leads that will include activities that will appeal to more play styles.

it is a second source.
third or fourth sources would be great, but it is also great to have a second source.

and not everyone thinks the Endless Archive is the worst thing ever. it's reasonable for us who do like it.
extra reasonable because Endless Archive is available to everyone.

just a little note, while the archive is available to everyone as a free update, the leads themselves may still require being dug up in a DLC zone, so even though its an alternate source it still is DLC restricted in a way (it would only require 1 DLC instead of multiple at least)

i know.
but antiquities are dlc too.
so i believe anyone who wants antiquities has some dlc at least. and would only buy a lead if they want it and can dig it up.

you can get oakensoul by only having high isle and greymoor, no need for murkmire anymore.

Necrotech_Master

LunaFlora wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

hey you've already told me that. i already know you don't like the Endless Archive.

the comment you're quoting is one i made to tell someone that there'll be a second source for antiquity leads.

I was making the point that the Endless Archive is not a reasonable second source for a lot of players. It is nothing more than a long tedious grind in an arena that players can't even save their progress in. There is no way I will subject myself to that kind of torture for a lead.

This is why they need to give additional sources for leads that will include activities that will appeal to more play styles.

it is a second source.
third or fourth sources would be great, but it is also great to have a second source.

and not everyone thinks the Endless Archive is the worst thing ever. it's reasonable for us who do like it.
extra reasonable because Endless Archive is available to everyone.

just a little note, while the archive is available to everyone as a free update, the leads themselves may still require being dug up in a DLC zone, so even though its an alternate source it still is DLC restricted in a way (it would only require 1 DLC instead of multiple at least)

i know.
but antiquities are dlc too.
so i believe anyone who wants antiquities has some dlc at least. and would only buy a lead if they want it and can dig it up.

you can get oakensoul by only having high isle and greymoor, no need for murkmire anymore.

of course

i was making that post more as a general note to everyone, that while the archive is free content, the leads themselves are still going to be restricted to where they are dug up (having greymoor to unlock antiquities themselves i figured was kind of a "given" lol)

katanagirl1

LunaFlora wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

and btw Endless Archive has a merchant named Ool who sells different things every week including treasure maps and antiquity leads.

I haven't even tried the Endless Archive on PTS yet-- not that I'm not interested in it, because I am; I just generally avoid the PTS so I don't "spoil" anything for myself. How much do things cost from the merchant? Is it purchasable strictly with a new currency from the Endless Archive, or is it like the Golden in Cyrodiil where we can use gold as an alternative?

https://eso-hub.com/en/news/a-look-at-the-rewards-and-items-inside-the-endless-archive-in-eso

in the first week of update 40 on pts the antiquity leads cost 5000 Archival Fortunes, not sure if it has changed

So how much time grinding does this amount of currency take?

Sorry if it was mentioned earlier and I missed it.

spartaxoxo

Putting a variety of unique rewards in each piece of content gives players a reason to try new content. Some of that content they will not like. Some of that content they will realize they actually enjoyed, and now they have more content that they can enjoy.

So, you need whichever activity that you want them to try to be easiest source of the lead. Because otherwise that incentive doesn't really exist. If I can get the thing I want from what I'm already doing even more easily than the new activity, then I have no incentive to give the new thing a shot. This is why it's good that alternatives exist, but they are generally speaking harder than the primary sources.

They can balance the need for getting people to try a variety of content with the need to ensure people are generally having fun by increasing the drop rate.

SilverBride

I don't understand why there is such a focus on giving players a reason to try new content. Why not just put a wide variety of activities out there and let players engage in the ones they find interesting? Why try to force interest where there is none?