PTS Update 40 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

autocookies

deleted

OolongSnakeTea

RicAlmighty wrote: »

The nerf to Pillar was completely unnecessary.

Parsed with pillar, its still here to stay- there arn't to many other combos to use that can out damage it in a single-target PVE situation even post-nerf. It sucks, because I'm tired as hell using it. I rather see more sets brought up to its equal at this point then nerf it to allow more build diveristy.

Otherwise- thanks to hybirization- it's literally just nirn-Relle on all my characters with a few weapon swaps because haha funny inferno or maelstrom sword, or brp daggers. It's all so very trite and bland thanks to said hybirziation.

lQrukl

Buff of Radiant Glory makes Radiant Oppression even more senseless choice

RicAlmighty

System_Data wrote: »

Pillar of Nirn was clearly overperforming among its peers, doing almost as much damage as some trials sets. It was due for a nerf even if it took awhile to do so. Most players didn't use Pillar Of Nirn because they wanted to, but only because it was that strong.

So now those players will simply move to one of those trial sets. How does this increase diversity of builds? All they’ve done is just add another set to the shelf with dozens of others that will see its usage fall. I fail to see this as a positive for the game. Shifting the meta by removing set viability is not the answer, it never has been. That’s not “balance”

Auzsi

Why making this Feedback Thread? There are almost no combat changes in the current build.

System_Data

RicAlmighty wrote: »

So now those players will simply move to one of those trial sets. How does this increase diversity of builds? All they’ve done is just add another set to the shelf with dozens of others that will see its usage fall. I fail to see this as a positive for the game. Shifting the meta by removing set viability is not the answer, it never has been. That’s not “balance”

People are already using trial sets along with a non-trial set. You are making this a bigger deal than it is. No longer do you see only Relequen being used despite it being still strong, there's more variety for trial sets.

As someone else mentioned, Pillar Of Nirn is still going to be one of the top sets that will still be used, it's not going anywhere and will still be viable.

I don't think you understand what balance is when Pillar Of Nirn was clearly and outlier. New flavor of the month is Azureblight anyways as shown on ESOlogs which probably needs to be looked at.

Sikon

Talking about "class balance" in ESO:

ESO LOGS best DPS Rankings for

- Ansuul the Tormentor (vSE)
https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/17#boss=57

-Tideborn Taleria (vDSR)
https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/16#boss=54

-Xalvakka (vRG)
https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/15#boss=51

... well I could go on with that list. You can clearly see the overperforming classes and the underrepresented classes for DPS.

Sometimes I ask myself if the Devs even know ESOLogs or if they have any statistics for their own game themselves (BUT played ToT matches).

AstroST

I don't get this thread, all people playing ESO know that there some overperforming classes and some trash ones.
This has been going on for a lot of time now and still ESO combat team has done nothing about it.
What we have in the new pach is just more buff to one of the overporforming classe.
So, why even asking?

As a Warden main nice to see there is not a single one in the top 100 in any of the boss fight linked above.

Sikon

@AstroST so why is ZOS asking every patch for community feedback? The community and famous streamers clarify repetitive the problems with class balance every update. Like none of the community advices were introduced.

It is like asking for advice but don't accept it anyway. So the community gets more and more mad about this "Feedback threads". ZOS can close them completely or finally take them serious!

UNSeki

RicAlmighty wrote: »

UNSeki wrote: »

Pillar of Nirn was slightly nerfed. I still see no reason to use most of the other hundreds of sets.

22% is not "slightly"

It does not translate to a 22% decrease on your actual DPS. Once you test it in combat, you'll see it amounts to around a 1-2k DPS loss. For MagDPS this will be potentially better since you get crit chance now. Sure, the set is weaker, but it's still one of the most reliable, strong and accessible options on the board.

I didn't mean to be salty, the nerf exists and, in my opinion, will be good for PVP, as it will be less overwhelming for beginners to fight Nirn opponents.

The point I was making is that nerfing overperforming sets will not result in significant change for the players without also buffing or reworking underperforming ones.

Remiem

UNSeki wrote: »

I didn't mean to be salty, the nerf exists and, in my opinion, will be good for PVP, as it will be less overwhelming for beginners to fight Nirn opponents.

?
Nobody cares about Pillar of Nirn in PvP and nobody complains about it, the nerf was motivated purely by PvE.
Please don't bring PvP in this situation, PvErs are already very keen to jump on the "PvP ruining sets used in PvE" bandwagon every time anything happens to one of their toys.

Achiiless

Hi Devs,
Why think of Pillars of Nirn as a set that is pulling ahead of other dungeon sets? Maybe Pillars of Nirn should be looked at as a benchmark for a good dungeon set. Then, try to elevate some more dungeon sets to be as good as Pillars of Nirn rather than nerfing Pillars. More changes similar to Aegis Caller to elevate a few other dungeon sets, hopefully...

Not all players do Trials to farm for trial sets. More dungeon sets as good as Pillars of Nirn will give more diverse build options for many players.

Thanks

ZhuJiuyin

For some unknown reason, information about the new Mythic Items seems to be missing from the 9.2.0 instructions.
Is it intentional not to introduce the new Mythic Items information so that everyone can focus on the Classes sets, or is it just that the official forgot to introduce the new Mythic Items?

Turtle_Bot

UNSeki wrote: »

I didn't mean to be salty, the nerf exists and, in my opinion, will be good for PVP, as it will be less overwhelming for beginners to fight Nirn opponents.

The set was never being used in PvP. This nerf to nirn is exclusively due to PvE only.

tomofhyrule

One thing I'd like to say before my main thesis: Nightblade's Grim Focus is still present and still irritating.

The point of the weapon glow was to highlight that you had Grim Focus active. Now that it's permanently active, we don't need to know whether it's active or not. However, the change to Grim Focus also broke the basegame stack counter, to the point where players need addons to see how many stacks they have.

Before, the icon changed to a completely different icon when the bow was ready, and it was visible even on backbar with the basegame UI. Now, the icon is the same but only received a (very easily overlooked) glow if you're on the right bar. Again, I know multiple nightblades who have addons specifically to restore functionality of counting stacks that used to be basegame.

Please consider having the red glow only show on the weapons at the 5th stack. That would immediately appease:

• people who dislike the glow, as they can keep one of their main skills slotted but then make sure to discharge the proc after combat
• people who like the glow, as they can just keep their stacks up permanently
• people who want to know how many stacks they have without downloading addons
• people who play on console who can't download addons

CameraBeardThePirate

Hey ZOS, I know the patch was "light on changes" (aka the same as every patch for the last year), but you know what wouldn't have taken much effort?

Tweaking the DoT proc setup that 80% of PvPers are running.

Not buffing DK again.

Adding Major Sorcery/Brutality to Necro.

Throwing a bone to Templar.

Those 4 small things would've been received far better than the entirety of balance changes you made this patch. You don't need to make sweeping changes to improve the meta, and doing nothing to even address the ridiculous meta we've been in for a year now is a kick in the teeth to the vast majority of your playerbase.

Do better. Communicate more. Implement the feedback you ask for time and again.

tomofhyrule

I'll start with saying that I'm a DK tank main who doesn't do much PvP (and when I do, I get my butt handed to me unless I go full turtle mode, at which point I hit like a wet noodle)

However: one of the big problems with DKs and the main reason the new DK set is causing an uproar is from one thing: Corrosive Armor.

I do think DK needs a bit of a pass to get some balance changes, and it really needs so on the ults. I'll be the first to say I'm biased by saying that DK support capabilities are not in a bad state (go figure the 'tank' class should be good at tanking, but you don't see many DK healers around so they might need some love), but the damage seems more than a bit overtuned. I think this is from two skills specifically, which may need damage adjustments: Molten Whip at full stacks, and Flames of Oblivion.

The big issue with DKs is that they have strong ults which do a lot, and that may need to come down. As DK has a passive that restores resources on ult, that does suggest that DKs should probably be playing the resource game a bit more and end up without resources if they don't ult. I think they may deserve some increased costs on many of the skills, particularly the big hitters like whip and FoO. That could help them from being so oppressive in PvP.

Standard and its morphs seem to be in a decent state. Leap may be able to have an increased cost, but the shield scaling off of health seems reasonable. It's Magma and its morphs that can be an issue.

As a pure turtle tanking skill limiting incoming damage pretty heavily, it should go full-in on that. I think Magma Armor should also include a line of "Reduces outgoing damage by 50-75%" or so to make it clear this is an emergency "OH [SNIP]" button and not an "I can hit you but you can't hit me" button. Definitely the maximum damage that can be done during that time should be from the aura. I'd make the same change to Magma Shell, as that's akin to an "OH [SNIP]" group barrier in content.

Corrosive though... that's kinda all over the place. If the idea is that the ult should make all of your outgoing damage ignore resistances, that means that it's designed to do a lot of damage over that time. As such, doing a lot of damage in turtle mode is overpowered. It should lose the "Limit incoming damage to 3%" line to bring it in line with things like Onslaught (2H line, which also ignores resistances and grants you pen equal to the opponent's resistances for 50 less ult but also half the time)

gariondavey

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hey ZOS, I know the patch was "light on changes" (aka the same as every patch for the last year), but you know what wouldn't have taken much effort?

Tweaking the DoT proc setup that 80% of PvPers are running.

Not buffing DK again.

Adding Major Sorcery/Brutality to Necro.

Throwing a bone to Templar.

Those 4 small things would've been received far better than the entirety of balance changes you made this patch. You don't need to make sweeping changes to improve the meta, and doing nothing to even address the ridiculous meta we've been in for a year now is a kick in the teeth to the vast majority of your playerbase.

Do better. Communicate more. Implement the feedback you ask for time and again.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno please read this

RaptorRodeoGod

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

For some unknown reason, information about the new Mythic Items seems to be missing from the 9.2.0 instructions.
Is it intentional not to introduce the new Mythic Items information so that everyone can focus on the Classes sets, or is it just that the official forgot to introduce the new Mythic Items?

There are new mythic items?

ZhuJiuyin

Galagladi Dragonblood wrote: »

Yes, someone has mentioned it before, but its interface is not in English.

English version new mythic items:


For some unknown reason, the new mythic was ignored.

RaptorRodeoGod

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Galagladi Dragonblood wrote: »

Yes, someone has mentioned it before, but its interface is not in English.

English version new mythic items:


For some unknown reason, the new mythic was ignored.

This looks like a whack mythic lmao. Is it the only one this update?

chessalavakia_ESO

Would ESO's design support changing the skills people have when they join a group without significant performance issues?

If it would, could you have a grouped Blessing of Protection that ignored pets and a non-grouped Blessing of Protection that healed them?

Should Major Prophecy and Savagery be scaled down a bit in effectiveness with compensation for most of the non-double barred sources?

Changing buffs like Major Prophecy and Savagery to work on both bars when slotted on one is really nice for builds that were losing two slots to keep the ability up. However, it also raises the value of the skills and decreases the value of getting the ability via other means.

Suggestion regarding Magma Armor and it's Morphs:

Test increasing Magma Armor's aurora damage by 10-20% and reducing it's mitigation from 97% to 90%.

Then, have the Magma Shell Morph increase the mitigation to 97% along with the shields for allies.

Them, change Corrosive Armor to offer +20,000 Penetration instead of 100,000.

The reason for adding the 10- 20% damage is because it probably won't do that much but, it will make people feel a bit better about the change.

I think going from 97% to 90% mitigation will allow the players running it to be hurt a bit without being totally crippling in PvE.

Right now, choosing between Magma Shell and Corrosive Armor is choosing between fire damage/poison damage and penetration vs a buff for allies.

As a result, for solo players it isn't very hard to choose between the two when it comes to effectiveness. By giving the Magma Shell an additional 7% resistance it would become more of a choice.

Giving 20,000 penetration to Corrosive Armor will make it so that it still ignores all NPC armor but, make it so that it will not necessarily cut through all player armor.

Ideally, this might make it so that Onslaught and Corrosive would have a bit more competition with one another on the DK when it came to penetration.

Billium813

lQrukl wrote: »

Buff of Radiant Glory makes Radiant Oppression even more senseless choice

Ya, the state of Radiant Destruction is rather disappointing. The difference between both morphs is so small and Glory is almost always better. It's +480% damage plus +20% heal vs +500% damage. It's such a minor difference that makes Oppression is barely worth it unless you're pushing some kind of DPS build for that 1% damage difference. Now, Glory is just... even more obviously the best... but ZOS seems to treat this like players need to make some kind of real decision.

Radiant Destruction USED to be Blinding Flashes. At the time, it was a Skill more aligned with Tanking! Then, it was changed into a more DPS focused Skill called Radiant Destruction. Both morphs seem to be aligned with DPS now, which I think is not a good design. There will almost always be one morph being overwhelmingly preferred and the other will end up being barely ever used... which is where we are at now... I would personally like to see the Radiant Glory morph redone as a Support aligned morph instead.

With the casting time and enemy health restriction, I think Radiant Glory could be an interesting class based version of Equilibrium that actually returns MORE Magicka then it takes to cast once the enemy gets low enough. I know this could totally upset PvP... but perhaps there is a cool design in there if someone can work it out (maybe make the channel time 2.2 seconds?). Templar Tanking at the moment has a difficulty with Magicka management and a new kind of Equilibrium could be an interesting solution!

As is, my biggest issue with the new Radiant Glory is that its almost impossible to understand what it does based on the tool tip!



> Restore 480 per tick...
The channel time is 1.8 seconds. It doesn't say anywhere that there are 3 ticks of 0.6 seconds for the whole channel. This whole "tick" concept is such a bad wording cause a player doesn't know what that means and with the scaling, it's hard to calculate what this even does based on the tool tip.
Just say

... restore up to 1440 over the duration. The amount restored is increased by X% for enemies below 50% health"

> Based on the target's missing Health
Can you be anymore cryptic?! How much missing health? How much does this scale? Is there a max amount of Magicka the player can restore? Is it based on the percentage of missing health or total amount? Such terrible wording. smh

Major_Toughness

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Galagladi Dragonblood wrote: »

Yes, someone has mentioned it before, but its interface is not in English.

English version new mythic items:


For some unknown reason, the new mythic was ignored.

This looks like a whack mythic lmao. Is it the only one this update?

It is an unreleased mythic from Necrom - they weren't happy with it then for it be released and I bet it is just leftover somewhere.

jaws343

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Galagladi Dragonblood wrote: »

Yes, someone has mentioned it before, but its interface is not in English.

English version new mythic items:


For some unknown reason, the new mythic was ignored.

This looks like a whack mythic lmao. Is it the only one this update?

This was the mythic that was shown during the chapter reveal but pulled before it hit PTS. It's altogether not a really good mythic if it stays as shown.

Morimizo

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Would ESO's design support changing the skills people have when they join a group without significant performance issues?

If it would, could you have a grouped Blessing of Protection that ignored pets and a non-grouped Blessing of Protection that healed them?

I was truly mystified by this unwelcome change. Has anyone at ZoS ever tried keeping the Clannfear alive, even on a base game WB? 3-4 normal hits wipes it, and Blessing of Protection ensures the Tank stays upright when soloing. And no, lowering the summon cost by a paltry 4% while not adjusting the time it takes to summon doesn't help--AT ALL.

What's next? No healing Companions either?

Necrotech_Master

Billium813 wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

Buff of Radiant Glory makes Radiant Oppression even more senseless choice

Ya, the state of Radiant Destruction is rather disappointing. The difference between both morphs is so small and Glory is almost always better. It's +480% damage plus +20% heal vs +500% damage. It's such a minor difference that makes Oppression is barely worth it unless you're pushing some kind of DPS build for that 1% damage difference. Now, Glory is just... even more obviously the best... but ZOS seems to treat this like players need to make some kind of real decision.

Radiant Destruction USED to be Blinding Flashes. At the time, it was a Skill more aligned with Tanking! Then, it was changed into a more DPS focused Skill called Radiant Destruction. Both morphs seem to be aligned with DPS now, which I think is not a good design. There will almost always be one morph being overwhelmingly preferred and the other will end up being barely ever used... which is where we are at now... I would personally like to see the Radiant Glory morph redone as a Support aligned morph instead.

With the casting time and enemy health restriction, I think Radiant Glory could be an interesting class based version of Equilibrium that actually returns MORE Magicka then it takes to cast once the enemy gets low enough. I know this could totally upset PvP... but perhaps there is a cool design in there if someone can work it out (maybe make the channel time 2.2 seconds?). Templar Tanking at the moment has a difficulty with Magicka management and a new kind of Equilibrium could be an interesting solution!

As is, my biggest issue with the new Radiant Glory is that its almost impossible to understand what it does based on the tool tip!



> Restore 480 per tick...
The channel time is 1.8 seconds. It doesn't say anywhere that there are 3 ticks of 0.6 seconds for the whole channel. This whole "tick" concept is such a bad wording cause a player doesn't know what that means and with the scaling, it's hard to calculate what this even does based on the tool tip.
Just say

... restore up to 1440 over the duration. The amount restored is increased by X% for enemies below 50% health"

> Based on the target's missing Health
Can you be anymore cryptic?! How much missing health? How much does this scale? Is there a max amount of Magicka the player can restore? Is it based on the percentage of missing health or total amount? Such terrible wording. smh

its very straightforward lol

the amount of mag restored is also based on the execute

the skill ticks 3 times, at each tick it restores mag, with an amount varying from 0 to 480 based on how much hp the enemy is missing

the only thing that is not entirely clear, is if the execute % of the mag restore starts at 50% like the rest of the skill (i personally would assume it was)

it actually kind of works out a bit, 480% is the max execute dmg, 480 is the max mag restored

so theoretically if the enemy was at 25% hp (half scaling of the execute) then you would be getting +240% dmg and +240 mag per tick

im still very excited for this change, ive always used radiant glory because of the healing, but this change will actually improve sustain during execute on my stamplar

Radebrony

These Nightblade skills need some changes for pvp atleast

Mark Target and it's Morphs - Having a Mana cost and an obvious visual effect that is known to the other player that they are marked by a nightblade which kinda disregard the theme of it being in the Assassination skill line, what kind of assassin let's their target know they're being marked, To offset the mana cost don't let the marked player or any other enemy player the visual effect of the skill only you and party may see the marked target otherwise while not in a party only you can see it.

Consuming Darkness and it's Morphs - Cost Too much for too little of a benefit it's an ultimate with a way too situational and having only Major protection when the skill is activated and you are in the aoe of the skill unlike Revealing flare and it's morphs,This is an ult slot so why does it need it to be activated first before getting the benefit of Major protection and also it's Radius is way too small for anyone to benefit it's Synergy, either make the radius bigger or make the ult mobile

Aspect of Terror and it's Morphs - Having a active stun is great even if it fails to stun the enemy their is still some damage but this skill only has fear and debuff so when this skill fails to land it's essentially wasted resources, A suggestion to remedy that problem would be when the skill fails to land a fear/stun the debuff duration would be halved instead of nothing at all.

Strife and it's Morphs -The healing ticks are a bit way apart in my opinion, Shorter ticks would be a good change for this.

Crippling Grasp - why does the root have a travel time it takes way too long to hit and by the time it arrives either the player has rolled and the skill missed completely or cc immunity is active due other root skills already hitting the target, This is the only Class skill that's a single target root granted other classes don't have root at all but some of their skill make up for it, A suggestion for change of this skill would be make it a radial/conal root instead of a 28m long range single target or 15m single target instant hit with a radial root on hit of 5-6 meters.

Billium813

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

Buff of Radiant Glory makes Radiant Oppression even more senseless choice

Ya, the state of Radiant Destruction is rather disappointing. The difference between both morphs is so small and Glory is almost always better. It's +480% damage plus +20% heal vs +500% damage. It's such a minor difference that makes Oppression is barely worth it unless you're pushing some kind of DPS build for that 1% damage difference. Now, Glory is just... even more obviously the best... but ZOS seems to treat this like players need to make some kind of real decision.

Radiant Destruction USED to be Blinding Flashes. At the time, it was a Skill more aligned with Tanking! Then, it was changed into a more DPS focused Skill called Radiant Destruction. Both morphs seem to be aligned with DPS now, which I think is not a good design. There will almost always be one morph being overwhelmingly preferred and the other will end up being barely ever used... which is where we are at now... I would personally like to see the Radiant Glory morph redone as a Support aligned morph instead.

With the casting time and enemy health restriction, I think Radiant Glory could be an interesting class based version of Equilibrium that actually returns MORE Magicka then it takes to cast once the enemy gets low enough. I know this could totally upset PvP... but perhaps there is a cool design in there if someone can work it out (maybe make the channel time 2.2 seconds?). Templar Tanking at the moment has a difficulty with Magicka management and a new kind of Equilibrium could be an interesting solution!

As is, my biggest issue with the new Radiant Glory is that its almost impossible to understand what it does based on the tool tip!



> Restore 480 per tick...
The channel time is 1.8 seconds. It doesn't say anywhere that there are 3 ticks of 0.6 seconds for the whole channel. This whole "tick" concept is such a bad wording cause a player doesn't know what that means and with the scaling, it's hard to calculate what this even does based on the tool tip.
Just say

... restore up to 1440 over the duration. The amount restored is increased by X% for enemies below 50% health"

> Based on the target's missing Health
Can you be anymore cryptic?! How much missing health? How much does this scale? Is there a max amount of Magicka the player can restore? Is it based on the percentage of missing health or total amount? Such terrible wording. smh

its very straightforward lol

the amount of mag restored is also based on the execute

the skill ticks 3 times, at each tick it restores mag, with an amount varying from 0 to 480 based on how much hp the enemy is missing

the only thing that is not entirely clear, is if the execute % of the mag restore starts at 50% like the rest of the skill (i personally would assume it was)

it actually kind of works out a bit, 480% is the max execute dmg, 480 is the max mag restored

so theoretically if the enemy was at 25% hp (half scaling of the execute) then you would be getting +240% dmg and +240 mag per tick

im still very excited for this change, ive always used radiant glory because of the healing, but this change will actually improve sustain during execute on my stamplar

oh ya, it's very straight forward...

except for understanding how much mag will be restored, what the requirement is to start restoring mag, and what a "tick" even is in the game. It might as well say "Sometimes, Radiant Glory will restore some Magicka". The effect may be straight forward (it restores mag), but my point is that it's terribly worded in the tooltip.

> so theoretically if the enemy was at 25% hp (half scaling of the execute) then you would be getting +240% dmg and +240 mag per tick

wait, wat? You don't get the full 480% damage increase, and full magicka restore, until the enemy is at 0% health? But you get the full 20% health restore always. So, doesn't that make it sound like its theoretically impossible to get the full amounts in the tooltip since there won't BE any ticks once the enemy is dead? How can a player know how this skill even works when the tooltip is so vaguely written, and yet complex with 3 different things going on in it (health, damage, and mag)? It has a duration, uses ticks, depends on enemy health, scales each resource at different percentages. This Skill is so poorly created; it's just a dumping ground of effects! It really needs a total redesign. Yuck.

UsualSurrender

Billium813 wrote: »

wait, wat? You don't get the full 480% damage increase, and full magicka restore, until the enemy is at 0% health?.

It is like that with Bloothirsty trait and with every execute ability that scales progressively, it is obviously a linear increase in damage, down from 50% health to 0% where it reaches its maximum increase.

Radiant destruction:
"Burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire, dealing 3219 Magic Damage over 1.8 seconds. Deals up to 480% more damage to enemies below 50% Health."
50% Health = no bonus
0% Health = 480% bonus
With a linear progression in between

Radiant Glory:
Adds a little bonus "You heal for 20% of the damage inflicted." No scaling

The only thing that might be considered unclear is the notion of "tick" because it doesn't say how many ticks there are in these 1.8sec, that we can concede.
And if you take 1.8 seconds to test it, you will find out that there are 3 ticks.

Really it is not rocket science.