Grim Focus Permaglow

Alp

Might have to switch to two-handed or bows since learning just now that the backpack motifs and costumes that hide weapons can also hide the glow when weapons are sheathed.

kind_hero

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all. to reiterate here, it is working as intended. There are no plans right now to adjust The Grim Focus permaglow.

Just what happened from "we are monitoring player feedback on this" to "there are no plans right now to adjust The Grim Focus permaglow"? Since most feedback was to revert or toggle the glow, and also people have explained why.

I have spent real money to buy weapon styles which now are ruined because this red glow is interfering with the visuals of those styles. Why should I buy any crown store products? Why should anyone? Can't you see this simple argument?

NoticeMeArkay

Don't mind me, just keeping the Pro's and Con's close to the top for everyone to see:

Posting an update on the conversation. The current pro and contra arguments in regards of the new state of Grim Focus:

Pro:

Some players welcome the enforced glow, as they now don't have to purchase a weapon pack with red particle or glow effects in order to customize their character "reddish/nightblade-ish." Therefore saving money on ~17€ weapon packs for personal customization preferences as the now permanent spell effect serves as a quasi-armspack.


Contra:

Conflicts with any UI that utilizes global lighting - Will continue to conflict with any UI of this particular style in the future:




Is permanently visible upon slotting (just skilling on console), rendering already purchased weapon packs obsolete followed by customer support refusing to allow refunds for players who bought said weapon pack for their nightblade specifically.
For comparison, the sorcerer's spell Bound Armor got its own permanent effect removed within the same patch. Causing confusion in regards of the developers intend behind the willfull change or bug.



Mentioning in the patch notes that the ability will be highlighted on the bar once the max amount of stacks is reached, while not mentioning in any section that the glow is now permanent once the skill is slotted. Which of both serves as the better indicator is up for debate.



Additionally, the spell remains visible only to the nightblade player, therefore lacking further indication of the slotted spell in regards of PvP. Console players also reported, that the spell doesn't have to be slotted in order for the glow to appear. A spent skill point in said spell suffices. Forgot to add those in the first summary.

joseayalac

kind_hero wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all. to reiterate here, it is working as intended. There are no plans right now to adjust The Grim Focus permaglow.

Just what happened from "we are monitoring player feedback on this" to "there are no plans right now to adjust The Grim Focus permaglow"? Since most feedback was to revert or toggle the glow, and also people have explained why.

I have spent real money to buy weapon styles which now are ruined because this red glow is interfering with the visuals of those styles. Why should I buy any crown store products? Why should anyone? Can't you see this simple argument?

The fact that there's no acknowledgement of how this ruins Gloambound weapons among many other CS styles is kinda frustrating, not gonna lie.

NoticeMeArkay

Kinda? I've paid money for something I can no longer use as intended.
And when asked for a refund, been told to just unslot a skill by somebody who just passed on some prefab answer with no real intend to solve the initial issue. - Sure.

I'll unslot the skill everytime, I want to:

Scry for antiquities
Showcase my motif collection
Use the motif station
Play in first person
Plan to equip a weapon pack I paid actual money for
Showcase anything in the crownstore that's not bright red
Plan on wearing any potential color that does not vibe with the "XxEdgy_assassinxX" flair
Use any memento I achieved ingame that's not depicting a bright red light
Play the game


By the way, since Grim Focus has been rereleased in a broken state, multiple other abilities of other classes have been adjusted to be less obstrusive on visual terms.

Abnaxos

Unslotted and I'm gonna refund the skill point on occasion.

If the glow had any informational purpose (e.g. it glows when we have 5 stacks) and only when weapons are drawn, it would be a different thing. But like this, it's just ugly and distracting.

master_vanargand

Why does ZoS ignore this issue?
[snip]
[edited for bashing]

joseayalac

master_vanargand wrote: »

Why does ZoS ignore this issue?
[snip]
[edited for bashing]

I don't know dude, it's a sad state of affairs.

My poor NB hasn't rolled in months anyway, might as well delete it at this point.

I wish I could get a refund for the Gloambound weapon style.

Alaztor91

It's insane that there isn't even a toggle option after all this time. If ZOS ever introduces Skill Styling for class skills and gives you a ''no glow'' version of Grim Focus for Crowns, then there is your answer.

I really hope that doesn't happen though, it would be a new low for the whole ''create the problem and sell the solution''.

Reasonchill

Is this... for real?
Guys, you have screwed up. There is no way around it, no deniability. All the layers of complex reason that multiple different people came to separately from each other are here to show this, to prove it beyond any doubt, beyond any, well... deniability.
This is not a "both sides" issue. I just want my stuff back. That's it. Multiple, multiple people want their stuff back.
And way, way more people could say all the same complex, systemic arguments - because they are correct - but are hopeless to get anything good for it, and are just expecting the same insult.
This is insulting, this is a spit in the face of everyone who invested time, money, effort, thought, patience, thoroughness, care into their characters. Into this game.

Now all these people (realistically: a small fraction of these people, not everyone is ready to willfully participate in this) have come here and stated in an extremely polite, desensitised, even, manner how this change ruins the gaming for them, objective reasons why it is so. The only acceptable response here is to acknowledge that this is a problem. An objectively bad decision at the expense of people and something that shouldn't have been done.
NOT instead inviting some people to essentially bully those whose gameplay has suffered the consequences of this decision.

Yes, we know it was intended. VERY BAD.
The intention is part of the problem, and the acknowledgement of all this is step 1 to fixing it.
With a follow-up question: "how did this happen?" (Hint: really skewed feedback, people who appreciate "a shiny" being really loud, people who don't being too nice and making a constant conscious effort to let people enjoy their gaming and style choices, whether they are really tacky, whether their "shiny" burns out your retinas when you're trying to quest, whether their MEGABRIGHT Meridian Lightsteed mounting right on your head for 15-th time makes you want to flip your table. To say that this effort doesn't go both ways is to say nothing. The exact opposite is true, as seen here).

This is NOT a both-sides issue. "Jimmy has built himself a house, and doesn't want it destroyed, Timmy wants to destroy that house to the ground because he kinda vibes with the idea. See? It's a both sides issue! Now let's discuss it, and remember to be polite!".

Re: toggle.
If there's ever a toggle for visual effects then so be it, but this isn't about the objectively persisting problem at hand. The devs should: 1. acknowledge this as a problem. 2. solve it as they see fit.
The details of 2. should be up to the devs, but the 1. should be undisputable at this point. PLEASE STOP SPITTING INTO THE FACE OF YOUR PLAYERBASE. To make matters worse: specifically the disciplined, polite, controlled, thorough part of that playerbase who put a lot of effort into their character's appearance and builds, whose kindness and patience have been mistaken for weakness throughout this entire thread.

The reason this thread "died out" at a certain point is because we collectively thought that you were fixing it, would add it to the chapter release update, and didn't want to deal with the embarassmenet of saying "uhm, yeah, we screwed up royally, but we're too busy to fix it rn".

You have an extremely patient, polite, disciplined playerbase. Use that as an asset. And no, ignoring, overusing their patience knowing that they won't make a fuss is not what I mean. I mean that you can say "please wait, we will definitely fix this later" and then actually fix it and we will wait, patiently, as we can.
I mean, the devs didn't even say anything, and we still did xD
Imagine how nice it was to log in and see the thing still pretty much ruined. I just want my char back. With its aethetic, its identity, AND its build. They are inseparable btw.
Saying "just unslot it", "just stop playing", "duh" is insulting, some players have said it with their words, the devs are saying it with their actions, and it just further shows the gap between those who don't see the problem with the glow (as there's nothing wrong with liking it) and those who do.
I just want my stuff back. That's it.
Thank you for reading.
Please fix it.

P.S.: it also goes against the very idea of ESO in every way. All the reasoning why the glow is a problem highlights it (with a bright red xD). This tacky, useless, forced thing juxtaposed with the fine aesthetic of the new chapter, the chapters before, the story, the quests, the builds you can make, the exact very words and messages from the team, the aesthetic, everything... Just makes it obvious that the glow doesn't belong there to anyone who cares to see. Maybe show the glow and this thread to chapter and overall ESO concepts developer team and be ready to block and dodge any incoming projectiles.

shimm

@ZOS please move this thread to the bug section so the same 20 people can post to it there. This is really the biggest issue in the game for some people? Really?

vsrs_au

shimm wrote: »

@ZOS please move this thread to the bug section so the same 20 people can post to it there. This is really the biggest issue in the game for some people? Really?

To answer your question: yes. You clearly haven't read all of the thread. This problem impacts items that players have paid real-world currency for, and for some players, it ruins their enjoyment of the game due to the glow's intrusiveness. So please read the thread.

Vrelanier

shimm wrote: »

@ZOS please move this thread to the bug section so the same 20 people can post to it there.

I'm with you 100%. This definitely belongs to the bug section.

shimm wrote: »

This is really the biggest issue in the game for some people? Really?

When the game gives you a shiny red alert in the middle of the screen for all the time, then yeah, it's surprising how big of an issue it can become. There's no down time. It's like they're forcing you to be on alert when nothing is happening. It's anxiety visualized. Using it as an accessory to your outfit is like imagining you're driving a Lexus while you're actually on your kid's plastic tricycle. No one else can see it but you, and all you can see, is red.

If ZoS sticks with the glow, I think it's high time they change the lore to match:

"Nightblades are adventurers and opportunists with a gift for getting in and out of trouble. Relying variously on blinding spotlights, hallucinations, and paranoia, Nightblades thrive on conflict and misfortune, trusting to their luck and cunning to survive."

It kinda suits, no? I can go from stealth to rage, I don't mind, but I think they should then adjust the Grim Focus morphs to be either capable of killing guards, or to remove all heat.

Idelise

I'd love to see it resolved. I haven't levelled Nightblade at all due to hearing all the complaints - now that I did, the permaglow is killing my enjoyment of playing the character. And yes, the glow sometimes remains even if I unslot the ability...

NoticeMeArkay

I have yet to read any explanation as to what was the reason for the change.
An intended change with no reason given sounds like a weak excuse considering all the issues with it piling up for months now.

tsaescishoeshiner

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

I have yet to read any explanation as to what was the reason for the change.
An intended change with no reason given sounds like a weak excuse considering all the issues with it piling up for months now.

I assume it wasn't intentionally made that way, but was a consequence of the skill being made permanently active instead of toggled, since that's when it changed. So it would take extra work to make it not glow all the time.

I totally think it should be only active in combat or something or something like that. Then it would work like an "enemies nearby" type of effect lol. I don't think a toggle makes sense, and I wouldn't want it to be completely off. I do think it looks cool, and we so rarely get persistent weapon effects.

Or it could be only active while you had stacks--that way, you'd just have to unslot-reslot it to reset your stacks and make the glow go away.

Muizer

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

I have yet to read any explanation as to what was the reason for the change.
An intended change with no reason given sounds like a weak excuse considering all the issues with it piling up for months now.

The change was the replacing of the so called 'dead cast' to activate the ability (and start building stacks) with an 'active when slotted on either bar'. Removing the dead cast is so evidently a beneficial change for nightblades that it needs no further explanation. The visuals are 'working as intended' because they were not changed. However now that the effect is always on there when you have the skill slotted, people are discovering how bad it actually is and complaining about it. ZOS are basically hiding behind a technicality IMHO. Now that it's always on, the effect is for all intents and purposes 'new'.

wolfie1.0.

Only way to make a change, boycott the skill.

If it becomes unused then maybe they will make it better.

NoticeMeArkay

Yeah, as Kevin months ago declared the permanent glow specifically as intended, I was asking what exactly it was that had developers actively decide to keep that after altering the spell mechanically.

I wsn't asking why the spell as a whole got changed.
And yes, my question didn't really aim for a real answer as I also believe there is none other than "We changed the spell, realized the glow is now permanently on and didn't bother to dig through our 26 milion lines of code to make it better."

MotherOfMoss

This still didn't get fixed I see A sad day (even if the patch fixed something else that really bothered me so that was nice at least).

Just to keep things going here, I'll show you my wood elf. She's dressed up as catwoman Khenarthi here and definitely does not rock the red. Please let me have my core nightblade skill back, please.


Khenarthi casts a red circle at her feet. I suppose she might glow, but I'd much prefer she didn't, and definitely not red.


Really not the intended accompaniment to her peacock blue colour scheme.


Khenarthi... carries a fiery red lightsaber on her back, hidden behind her bow and arrows.

So I will go back to slotting some other, vastly inferior skill and check back next patch :salute:

MZ333

These do not need captions. So self imposed [snip]

10 years later we are coming around 10 months of this.

Change. The. Red. Glow. To. Activate. ONLY. With 5 LA stacks. ZOS.

Morgaledh

shimm wrote: »

@ZOS please move this thread to the bug section so the same 20 people can post to it there. This is really the biggest issue in the game for some people? Really?

It's not a bug. They can't move it to the bug section without then acknowledging that it's a bug, and ZOS_Kevin has posted in this thread saying that it's working as intended.

Muizer

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

And yes, my question didn't really aim for a real answer as I also believe there is none other than "We changed the spell, realized the glow is now permanently on and didn't bother to dig through our 26 milion lines of code to make it better."

Yeah or something like 'nobody complained about it before, so why should we change it now'. My guess is they thought making it an active when slotted skill was a 'quick win'. In terms of game play it certainly is. The visual effects don't bother me really, but that's because I don't care much about visuals anyway. And yet It's still obvious to me they're not just 'not pretty', which is very subjective, they're actually quite objectively bad. They serve no purpose, are straight up misaligned with many weapons and generally much too intrusive for any permanent effect. It this moment it just seems wrongheadedness not to admit it needs changing.

vsrs_au

I've certainly lost a lot of confidence and faith in the ESO developers because of their refusal to admit this glow feature is broken.

Reasonchill

Muizer wrote: »

Yeah or something like 'nobody complained about it before, so why should we change it now'. My guess is they thought making it an active when slotted skill was a 'quick win'. In terms of game play it certainly is. The visual effects don't bother me really, but that's because I don't care much about visuals anyway. And yet It's still obvious to me they're not just 'not pretty', which is very subjective, they're actually quite objectively bad. They serve no purpose, are straight up misaligned with many weapons and generally much too intrusive for any permanent effect. It this moment it just seems wrongheadedness not to admit it needs changing.

THANK YOU. The correct answer.
And I don't think they're hiding behind a technicality, I think they're "hiding" behind simply not wanting to do it and one-sidedly deciding that this is not important (because the correct answer would prompt action, and actions do be difficult), and now, it turns out, it really, really, really is. It's not a question of just one animation, but the approach in general.
I also want to mention that this is NOT the same as templar's Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweep/Puncturing Strikes or Flurry change. Those are just animations that are poorly made, but they won't make your char unplayable.
The unifying thing between those animations and this thing is that both are done fast rather than well.

Tbh I had a lot of respect for the devs for sometimes biting the bullet and making imperfect changes to ensure the longevity of the game: for example, adding more mounted speed caused the feline mounts' walking animations to be pretty uncool, BUT it helped keep movement speeds up to date, and keep buffs/passives closer to how people actually play the game. But, like... this decision works in a situation of difficulties, lack of time and/or workforce; characters' speed in general has a lot of issues. So having plans to take care of it later, when you can afford it, or at least being aware of the issue would be pretty neat is necessary.

I think there's a big communication issue here, and that ESO has that communication issue as the main problem going for it rn, a lot bigger than QoL. Oftentimes interacting with people who like their stuff to be megabright (or at least saying so) and want to do a kajillion DPS at all times is scary. So the feedback ends up being one-sided, and with a lot of counter-productive criticism. If everyone says how they hate that ESO is not bright enough, then simply rolling out smth shiny is the thing to do, yes? I think this change wouldn't have made it to live servers if the feedback and communication had been better, then the devs would have known that simply making it VERY SHINY was not a good idea (a very bad idea, in fact).
And the feedback thing goes for a lot of other issues: visuals, combat, chapter-related feedback, etc.

This needs a revolutionary approach: set plans to do something, then start doing it, then continue doing it, then finish doing it, and you'll have it done. This really is the resolution here.
There have been some tolerable raw-ish updates and changes to this game, but this one is absolutely WAY too raw and just shouldn't have been implemented until it was ready.
So something needs to be done about this rushed change that is game-breaking for a great deal of players (and specifically players who invest in their looks with precision, which is a MAJOR feature of ESO). I think the animation I suggested in a previous message (page 17 of this thread iirc [edit: page 18]) could be useful, bringing the awesome "blood rune" back, maybe with some changes, whatevs, BUT regardless: it just needs doing.

Elvenheart

If the issue is they just can’t get rid of it, surely they could at least change the color to a very hard to see smoky gray black, then give a red alternative as soon as they bring styling to class skills.

LukosCreyden

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to follow up here. Thanks for the feedback so far. The Grim Focus glow is working as intended currently. However, we are monitoring player feedback on this. In feedback, please make sure to note why you like or dislike the glow, as we have seen player feedback regarding both.

@ZOS_Kevin have you collected enough feedback yet?

Dax_Draconis

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to follow up here. Thanks for the feedback so far. The Grim Focus glow is working as intended currently. However, we are monitoring player feedback on this. In feedback, please make sure to note why you like or dislike the glow, as we have seen player feedback regarding both.

It looks like a bug instead of a feature.

Why not make the glow visible only when the weapon is drawn? It would make more sense for the glow to not be there when the weapon is sheathed. Right?

Araneae6537

Dax_Draconis wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to follow up here. Thanks for the feedback so far. The Grim Focus glow is working as intended currently. However, we are monitoring player feedback on this. In feedback, please make sure to note why you like or dislike the glow, as we have seen player feedback regarding both.

It looks like a bug instead of a feature.

Why not make the glow visible only when the weapon is drawn? It would make more sense for the glow to not be there when the weapon is sheathed. Right?

That would not fix the problem. Many weapon styles bought from the Crown store are only seen to full effect when drawn. This hideous malaligned glow completely obscures that. I really wish the skill would be reverted and players given another option via weapon or skill styles to give their weapons a glow, if desired. Effects from skills should only be informative (ie., on activation, when at full stacks, etc.).

master_vanargand

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Dax_Draconis wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to follow up here. Thanks for the feedback so far. The Grim Focus glow is working as intended currently. However, we are monitoring player feedback on this. In feedback, please make sure to note why you like or dislike the glow, as we have seen player feedback regarding both.

It looks like a bug instead of a feature.

Why not make the glow visible only when the weapon is drawn? It would make more sense for the glow to not be there when the weapon is sheathed. Right?

That would not fix the problem. Many weapon styles bought from the Crown store are only seen to full effect when drawn. This hideous malaligned glow completely obscures that. I really wish the skill would be reverted and players given another option via weapon or skill styles to give their weapons a glow, if desired. Effects from skills should only be informative (ie., on activation, when at full stacks, etc.).

It only lights up red when stacked at 5. It's best choice.
Resetting Grim Focus to its old effect will ver nerf Nightblade.
Please don't try to nerf Nightblade.