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Any crossplay plans coming with the new servers changes?

  • Twohothardware
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    TaSheen wrote: »
    Amottica wrote: »
    blktauna wrote: »
    If it means I lose my add-ons on PC then absolutely not. And how would duplicate names be resolved? I would be livid if I lost any of my characters' names.

    There are just too many drawbacks to this suggestion, especially this late in the game.

    What they would need to do when merging the databases is come up with a unique identifier attached to each players username and that would be what's yours instead of character names. Like SilverBride#1234. You can then name your character whatever you want but someone else can use that same name as well. I don't know why that's not the way it's done already.

    Unless you are clued in to the DB schema they use, you can not assume adding/changing anything is easy or even doable.

    I agree with your comment in principle. However, I doubt the character name is the unique identifier as that would be an extremely poor db design.

    If, and it is a monumental if, Zenimax decided to go crossplay it is doubtful we will be seeing multiple characters with the same name. It is more likely that older character or even older accounts will keep their names and newer ones will be forced to choose a new name.

    Regardless, there is a reason why Zenimax has refused to create a tool to permit transfers and that reason is likely not their sole decision. It would be what stands in the way of Zenimax even considering the idea. After all, their replies in this thread do not suggest they are considering making such a change.

    Transfers took place between PC and console when the game first released and most of the AAA multiplayer games releasing today on console are coming with Crossplay so it’s unlikely they’re held back by anything more than their database and the work that would need to be put in to not break things.

    Those transfers were done to EMPTY console databases. Messing with full, in-service databases is a totally different beast.

    My point about transfers taking place at launch was that they weren’t held back by some Sony or Microsoft agreement stopping Crossplay or cross transfer.
    Amottica wrote: »
    Amottica wrote: »
    blktauna wrote: »
    If it means I lose my add-ons on PC then absolutely not. And how would duplicate names be resolved? I would be livid if I lost any of my characters' names.

    There are just too many drawbacks to this suggestion, especially this late in the game.

    What they would need to do when merging the databases is come up with a unique identifier attached to each players username and that would be what's yours instead of character names. Like SilverBride#1234. You can then name your character whatever you want but someone else can use that same name as well. I don't know why that's not the way it's done already.

    Unless you are clued in to the DB schema they use, you can not assume adding/changing anything is easy or even doable.

    I agree with your comment in principle. However, I doubt the character name is the unique identifier as that would be an extremely poor db design.

    If, and it is a monumental if, Zenimax decided to go crossplay it is doubtful we will be seeing multiple characters with the same name. It is more likely that older character or even older accounts will keep their names and newer ones will be forced to choose a new name.

    Regardless, there is a reason why Zenimax has refused to create a tool to permit transfers and that reason is likely not their sole decision. It would be what stands in the way of Zenimax even considering the idea. After all, their replies in this thread do not suggest they are considering making such a change.

    Transfers took place between PC and console when the game first released and most of the AAA multiplayer games releasing today on console are coming with Crossplay so it’s unlikely they’re held back by anything more than their database and the work that would need to be put in to not break things.

    You are absolutely correct. Zenimax did copy accounts from PC to console before consoles went live. That is an entirely different ballgame than moving accounts between live servers. It is a significantly more involved process and no reasonable IT professional would transfer data into a live server willy nillly.

    Further, in my comment you quoted, I noted that there is a reason why Zenimax has been firm in not creating a tool to facilitate transfers. This is likely contractual as that is all that would make sense. If this is the case then Zenimax does not seem very interested in renegotiating such a clause. Without actually knowing why Zenimax has refused to budge on this issue we are really spinningning our wheels. That reason is the core of any real discussion to bring about change.

    Also, Zenimax does not care what other MMOs do as they are not managing those MMORPGs.

    The most likely answer is there isn’t a monetary reason to create such a tool and only a small percentage of the player base would be looking to change platforms. Right now when you migrate from console to PC you’re going to spend more money rebuying the dlc and crown store items.
  • SerafinaWaterstar
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    Console player here.

    Crossplay between consoles would be ok, but with PC would be a nightmare.

    Add-ons do make a HUGE difference [Snip]. Friends who play on both console and PC have attested to this.

    Console economy would be annihilated.
    End game & pvp console players would also be affected due to certain add-ons.
    Even farming mats would be difficult.

    It would make console players second class and doubt many would stay. I personally would hate it.

    (There is a separate issue about the possibility of being able to transfer accounts between consoles & pc as a one-off, rather than start from scratch.)

    And the fact that there was a transfer between pc & empty console databases when this game first started is not relevant, as was very different.

    [Edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Volpe on September 27, 2023 3:18PM
  • Twohothardware
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    Console economy would be annihilated.
    End game & pvp console players would also be affected due to certain add-ons.
    Even farming mats would be difficult.

    Why do you think the console economy would be annihilated? Everything you currently have, especially mats, would be far more valuable than they are right now. Crossplay opens up guild traders to a much larger trading base making far more things worth farming for than they are now.

    What add-ons do you think would have a noticeable impact on console PvP players? I haven’t seen one mentioned in terms of PvP. It’s always the Trials add-ons.

    Why would farming mats be difficult?
  • SilverBride
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    Crossplay opens up guild traders to a much larger trading base making far more things worth farming for than they are now.

    Crossplay would bring more trading guilds but there wouldn't be more traders for them to bid on. More competition for prime trader locations would really increase the cost which is already high.
    Edited by SilverBride on September 27, 2023 3:56PM
    PCNA
  • boi_anachronism_
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    I would also like to point this out- for pve a lot of console player would simply not be accepted into higher level groups just by virtue of not being able to run add ons for runs. It would make the teams have to do manual call out specifically for them. When you get to the highest level definitely not. These groups actually write team specific add ons that are required.
  • Twohothardware
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    Crossplay opens up guild traders to a much larger trading base making far more things worth farming for than they are now.

    Crossplay would bring more trading guilds but there wouldn't be more traders for them to bid on. More competition for prime trader locations would really increase the cost which is already high.

    You're right that it would increase cost for the current prime locations in the three capitols but right now on console the capitols and a couple DLC areas are about the only trader locations that are even worth bidding on. There's countless trader locations in ESO that get no traffic at all and they keep adding a half a dozen new guild traders with each DLC. If the larger guilds expanded further out beyond the 3 capitol cities people would go to those other locations.

    Or they could just change the way the current guild trader system works and add something new like an auction house you see in other MMO's. I don't think the current system where guilds sell their firstborn each week to try and keep up with rising trader cost in the capitols is all that great.
  • essi2
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    I would also like to point this out- for pve a lot of console player would simply not be accepted into higher level groups just by virtue of not being able to run add ons for runs. It would make the teams have to do manual call out specifically for them. When you get to the highest level definitely not. These groups actually write team specific add ons that are required.

    Easily solved by adding platform as a grouping filter
    "The Heritance are racists yes? Idiots. But dangerous, destabilizing racist idiots." - Razum-dar

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    ** Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-EU) - Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-NA) **

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  • Twohothardware
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    I would also like to point this out- for pve a lot of console player would simply not be accepted into higher level groups just by virtue of not being able to run add ons for runs. It would make the teams have to do manual call out specifically for them. When you get to the highest level definitely not. These groups actually write team specific add ons that are required.

    That is only for veteran trials and I'm sure there are still PC guilds that are less elitist. If not you still have all of the Playstation and Xbox players to run Trials with.

    Some of those addons though need to be more evaluated by Zenimax to see if they should even be allowed in the game.

    If console players right now have to do call-outs as a team for mechanics in Trials and PC players are able to use add-ons that just reveal all the mechanics to you and tell you what to do, that's pretty much cheating.
  • Ingenon
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    I would also like to point this out- for pve a lot of console player would simply not be accepted into higher level groups just by virtue of not being able to run add ons for runs. It would make the teams have to do manual call out specifically for them. When you get to the highest level definitely not. These groups actually write team specific add ons that are required.

    Thanks for posting this!

    ZOS, please take this into consideration. I enjoy doing trials with guilds on PS/NA. I would not want cross-play enabled with PC, and be excluded from trials guilds because consoles cannot have add-ons.
  • Twohothardware
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    Ingenon wrote: »
    I would also like to point this out- for pve a lot of console player would simply not be accepted into higher level groups just by virtue of not being able to run add ons for runs. It would make the teams have to do manual call out specifically for them. When you get to the highest level definitely not. These groups actually write team specific add ons that are required.

    Thanks for posting this!

    ZOS, please take this into consideration. I enjoy doing trials with guilds on PS/NA. I would not want cross-play enabled with PC, and be excluded from trials guilds because consoles cannot have add-ons.

    Worst case scenario it would be exactly the same as it is right now for you though. If no PC guild at all let you join them for trials you would still have the same PlayStation guilds running Trials as well as all of the Xbox ones coming in.
  • boi_anachronism_
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    essi2 wrote: »
    I would also like to point this out- for pve a lot of console player would simply not be accepted into higher level groups just by virtue of not being able to run add ons for runs. It would make the teams have to do manual call out specifically for them. When you get to the highest level definitely not. These groups actually write team specific add ons that are required.

    Easily solved by adding platform as a grouping filter

    That really doesnt address this issue as they would still not be able to take advantage of crossplay expanding the current raid scene. In which case there really is no benefit at all, just a leaderboard completely dominated by pc players... which is not great. If anything i think, at least for the raid community it would create animosity more then anything.
    I would also like to point this out- for pve a lot of console player would simply not be accepted into higher level groups just by virtue of not being able to run add ons for runs. It would make the teams have to do manual call out specifically for them. When you get to the highest level definitely not. These groups actually write team specific add ons that are required.

    That is only for veteran trials and I'm sure there are still PC guilds that are less elitist. If not you still have all of the Playstation and Xbox players to run Trials with.

    Some of those addons though need to be more evaluated by Zenimax to see if they should even be allowed in the game.

    If console players right now have to do call-outs as a team for mechanics in Trials and PC players are able to use add-ons that just reveal all the mechanics to you and tell you what to do, that's pretty much cheating.

    They do. Its extremely common and for teams outside of pugs, anything above vet its uncommon not to run add ons. its just another thing that would take focus away from the actual raid to most players. You get ones that allow you to track everyones ultimates so that you can super easily coordinate where console you have to manually organize and do callouts. I mean you got codes combat alerts, raid notifier which tells you when a player is targeted with a specific mechanic for example, it will countdown to when an effect ends onscreen so you never really have to deal with keeping track of anything on your buff bar. Some give you countdowns to mechanics. The infamous closet that allows you to instantly change setups between pulls for optomization throughout the entire trial. Console has armor which cannot be used in a "timed event" aka trials.


    Again i would absolutely encourage crossplay with consoles but pc is its own thing and it really needs to remain like that.
    Edited by boi_anachronism_ on September 27, 2023 9:38PM
  • boi_anachronism_
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    I mean dont mistake me here: i dont begrudge pc players their add ons. There are some great qols in there that really should be added to console. I hesitate to call add ons cheating because everyone on pc is on common footing. They all have access to the same tools. Console just doesnt and thats where things can get a bit fuzzy.
  • Amottica
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    Amottica wrote: »
    Amottica wrote: »
    blktauna wrote: »
    If it means I lose my add-ons on PC then absolutely not. And how would duplicate names be resolved? I would be livid if I lost any of my characters' names.

    There are just too many drawbacks to this suggestion, especially this late in the game.

    What they would need to do when merging the databases is come up with a unique identifier attached to each players username and that would be what's yours instead of character names. Like SilverBride#1234. You can then name your character whatever you want but someone else can use that same name as well. I don't know why that's not the way it's done already.

    Unless you are clued in to the DB schema they use, you can not assume adding/changing anything is easy or even doable.

    I agree with your comment in principle. However, I doubt the character name is the unique identifier as that would be an extremely poor db design.

    If, and it is a monumental if, Zenimax decided to go crossplay it is doubtful we will be seeing multiple characters with the same name. It is more likely that older character or even older accounts will keep their names and newer ones will be forced to choose a new name.

    Regardless, there is a reason why Zenimax has refused to create a tool to permit transfers and that reason is likely not their sole decision. It would be what stands in the way of Zenimax even considering the idea. After all, their replies in this thread do not suggest they are considering making such a change.

    Transfers took place between PC and console when the game first released and most of the AAA multiplayer games releasing today on console are coming with Crossplay so it’s unlikely they’re held back by anything more than their database and the work that would need to be put in to not break things.

    You are absolutely correct. Zenimax did copy accounts from PC to console before consoles went live. That is an entirely different ballgame than moving accounts between live servers. It is a significantly more involved process and no reasonable IT professional would transfer data into a live server willy nillly.

    Further, in my comment you quoted, I noted that there is a reason why Zenimax has been firm in not creating a tool to facilitate transfers. This is likely contractual as that is all that would make sense. If this is the case then Zenimax does not seem very interested in renegotiating such a clause. Without actually knowing why Zenimax has refused to budge on this issue we are really spinningning our wheels. That reason is the core of any real discussion to bring about change.

    Also, Zenimax does not care what other MMOs do as they are not managing those MMORPGs.

    The most likely answer is there isn’t a monetary reason to create such a tool and only a small percentage of the player base would be looking to change platforms. Right now when you migrate from console to PC you’re going to spend more money rebuying the dlc and crown store items.

    Oh no. Monetization for server transfers is extremely obvious and clear as players will pay to transfer. Many threads asking for the ability to transfer have said they will pay.

    Other games, top games, charge to move which demonstrates players are willing to pay.

  • zaria
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    Amottica wrote: »
    Amottica wrote: »
    Amottica wrote: »
    blktauna wrote: »
    If it means I lose my add-ons on PC then absolutely not. And how would duplicate names be resolved? I would be livid if I lost any of my characters' names.

    There are just too many drawbacks to this suggestion, especially this late in the game.

    What they would need to do when merging the databases is come up with a unique identifier attached to each players username and that would be what's yours instead of character names. Like SilverBride#1234. You can then name your character whatever you want but someone else can use that same name as well. I don't know why that's not the way it's done already.

    Unless you are clued in to the DB schema they use, you can not assume adding/changing anything is easy or even doable.

    I agree with your comment in principle. However, I doubt the character name is the unique identifier as that would be an extremely poor db design.

    If, and it is a monumental if, Zenimax decided to go crossplay it is doubtful we will be seeing multiple characters with the same name. It is more likely that older character or even older accounts will keep their names and newer ones will be forced to choose a new name.

    Regardless, there is a reason why Zenimax has refused to create a tool to permit transfers and that reason is likely not their sole decision. It would be what stands in the way of Zenimax even considering the idea. After all, their replies in this thread do not suggest they are considering making such a change.

    Transfers took place between PC and console when the game first released and most of the AAA multiplayer games releasing today on console are coming with Crossplay so it’s unlikely they’re held back by anything more than their database and the work that would need to be put in to not break things.

    You are absolutely correct. Zenimax did copy accounts from PC to console before consoles went live. That is an entirely different ballgame than moving accounts between live servers. It is a significantly more involved process and no reasonable IT professional would transfer data into a live server willy nillly.

    Further, in my comment you quoted, I noted that there is a reason why Zenimax has been firm in not creating a tool to facilitate transfers. This is likely contractual as that is all that would make sense. If this is the case then Zenimax does not seem very interested in renegotiating such a clause. Without actually knowing why Zenimax has refused to budge on this issue we are really spinningning our wheels. That reason is the core of any real discussion to bring about change.

    Also, Zenimax does not care what other MMOs do as they are not managing those MMORPGs.

    The most likely answer is there isn’t a monetary reason to create such a tool and only a small percentage of the player base would be looking to change platforms. Right now when you migrate from console to PC you’re going to spend more money rebuying the dlc and crown store items.

    Oh no. Monetization for server transfers is extremely obvious and clear as players will pay to transfer. Many threads asking for the ability to transfer have said they will pay.

    Other games, top games, charge to move which demonstrates players are willing to pay.
    Yes its players who would be willing to pay to move servers.

    Question is if its better used of developer resources than other in game features or optimization.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • zaria
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    essi2 wrote: »
    I would also like to point this out- for pve a lot of console player would simply not be accepted into higher level groups just by virtue of not being able to run add ons for runs. It would make the teams have to do manual call out specifically for them. When you get to the highest level definitely not. These groups actually write team specific add ons that are required.

    Easily solved by adding platform as a grouping filter

    That really doesnt address this issue as they would still not be able to take advantage of crossplay expanding the current raid scene. In which case there really is no benefit at all, just a leaderboard completely dominated by pc players... which is not great. If anything i think, at least for the raid community it would create animosity more then anything.
    I would also like to point this out- for pve a lot of console player would simply not be accepted into higher level groups just by virtue of not being able to run add ons for runs. It would make the teams have to do manual call out specifically for them. When you get to the highest level definitely not. These groups actually write team specific add ons that are required.

    That is only for veteran trials and I'm sure there are still PC guilds that are less elitist. If not you still have all of the Playstation and Xbox players to run Trials with.

    Some of those addons though need to be more evaluated by Zenimax to see if they should even be allowed in the game.

    If console players right now have to do call-outs as a team for mechanics in Trials and PC players are able to use add-ons that just reveal all the mechanics to you and tell you what to do, that's pretty much cheating.

    They do. Its extremely common and for teams outside of pugs, anything above vet its uncommon not to run add ons. its just another thing that would take focus away from the actual raid to most players. You get ones that allow you to track everyones ultimates so that you can super easily coordinate where console you have to manually organize and do callouts. I mean you got codes combat alerts, raid notifier which tells you when a player is targeted with a specific mechanic for example, it will countdown to when an effect ends onscreen so you never really have to deal with keeping track of anything on your buff bar. Some give you countdowns to mechanics. The infamous closet that allows you to instantly change setups between pulls for optomization throughout the entire trial. Console has armor which cannot be used in a "timed event" aka trials.


    Again i would absolutely encourage crossplay with consoles but pc is its own thing and it really needs to remain like that.
    I say its not only addons, its also discord who is pretty required for organized groups on PC.
    Even if PC get an in game group chat it could not replace discord as discord let you have none group members on voice.
    Very nice in Cyrodil after we got the 12 player group limit.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • boi_anachronism_
    boi_anachronism_
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    zaria wrote: »
    essi2 wrote: »
    I would also like to point this out- for pve a lot of console player would simply not be accepted into higher level groups just by virtue of not being able to run add ons for runs. It would make the teams have to do manual call out specifically for them. When you get to the highest level definitely not. These groups actually write team specific add ons that are required.

    Easily solved by adding platform as a grouping filter

    That really doesnt address this issue as they would still not be able to take advantage of crossplay expanding the current raid scene. In which case there really is no benefit at all, just a leaderboard completely dominated by pc players... which is not great. If anything i think, at least for the raid community it would create animosity more then anything.
    I would also like to point this out- for pve a lot of console player would simply not be accepted into higher level groups just by virtue of not being able to run add ons for runs. It would make the teams have to do manual call out specifically for them. When you get to the highest level definitely not. These groups actually write team specific add ons that are required.

    That is only for veteran trials and I'm sure there are still PC guilds that are less elitist. If not you still have all of the Playstation and Xbox players to run Trials with.

    Some of those addons though need to be more evaluated by Zenimax to see if they should even be allowed in the game.

    If console players right now have to do call-outs as a team for mechanics in Trials and PC players are able to use add-ons that just reveal all the mechanics to you and tell you what to do, that's pretty much cheating.

    They do. Its extremely common and for teams outside of pugs, anything above vet its uncommon not to run add ons. its just another thing that would take focus away from the actual raid to most players. You get ones that allow you to track everyones ultimates so that you can super easily coordinate where console you have to manually organize and do callouts. I mean you got codes combat alerts, raid notifier which tells you when a player is targeted with a specific mechanic for example, it will countdown to when an effect ends onscreen so you never really have to deal with keeping track of anything on your buff bar. Some give you countdowns to mechanics. The infamous closet that allows you to instantly change setups between pulls for optomization throughout the entire trial. Console has armor which cannot be used in a "timed event" aka trials.


    Again i would absolutely encourage crossplay with consoles but pc is its own thing and it really needs to remain like that.
    I say its not only addons, its also discord who is pretty required for organized groups on PC.
    Even if PC get an in game group chat it could not replace discord as discord let you have none group members on voice.
    Very nice in Cyrodil after we got the 12 player group limit.

    I mean that is required for pretty much all guilds that run anything above vet for ps. Not for chat but for raid rostering, posting parses, povs, and achivements for ranking ect. Kinda a non issue for me tbh. Although its not great that ps chat is limited in number of participants.its also really awesome because you can basicslly use it to participate in unlimited guilds actives since you are limited to 5 in game.
    Edited by boi_anachronism_ on September 28, 2023 3:20PM
  • dk_dunkirk
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    I can see how cross-play would make the game feel even more packed due to a higher number of players, there are a significant number of problems however..

    1. Keyboard vs Controller

    2. Addon's vs No Addons

    3. The Economy

    Out of all of them the third one would be the hardest to see working, on PC things are massively more expensive then console, Crown rates are 10x that so what would happen if they were merged? would things become slightly cheaper for PC players but vastly more expensive for console players? would the economy meet somewhere in the middle in favor of which side has the most players? imagine the reaction of "Joe Console" when he finds out he cannot afford crown items for gold anymore because everything is 10x as expensive.

    The only way I could see cross-play working is either an extreme form of compensation for console players or a full reset of the economy, everyone would lose their gold and all materials however this is unrealistic and would probably kill the game.

    I've played both. Started PC, switched to console, went back to PC. Like you, I think the economy is the biggest obstacle to overcome.

    1) I use a controller for combat in dungeons and trials, and keyboard/mouse for writs and inventory management. I don't consider this an issue. I think controller has the advantage over keyboard for the combat in this game, unlike an FPS. You may disagree, but it's certainly not enough of a difference to make merging the player base in PVP an impossibly unfair deal. Heck, BF2042 mixes console and PC, even on an FPS. I don't know why, but they do.

    Your 2) and 3) a related, but few people seem to understand why. The economy on PC is inflated due to add-ons. They make it stupid easy to run writs across a dozen (or a few score) toons, and this injects a ton of money and high-value materials into the world all the time. It's just not worth it to do this on console. Same with running treasure maps. Dead simple on PC with mods; absolutely not worth the hassle on console without. I feel that surveys are still worth it on console, but they take longer, and some people won't do them either.

    I'm doing writs on 7 toons now, and I've created 3 more to level. I don't WANT to spend a half hour of every play session doing this, but I have to as a "defensive" posture because I'd never be able to afford the upgrade mats if I had to buy them. Before I left PC for console, and I had to sell Crowns to get enough gold to upgrade my jewelry. I'm not going to be in that position again.

    A lot of people like to say the economy is inflated on PC because of player counts, but that's nonsense. Inflation is due to an increase in money supply. It's Econ 101. Also, from what I can gather from sales data, there are about as many players on PS as there on on PC and Xbox combined. So, no. It's about mods.

    A lot of people will also say, "You don't 'understand' the economy." Sure I do. Yes, you can sell stuff -- at these inflated prices -- to get the money to buy the things you need, but to get the stuff that sells for enough to buy the other things, you have to spend HOURS farming something interesting, like certain motifs or furnishings or -- divines forbid -- doing the most-boring mini-game in the history of video games by fishing for perfect roe.

    Bethesday (I know, NOT Zenimax) has made mods a thing on console versions of Skyrim and Fallout 4. I don't see why they couldn't do the same on ESO. If they DID make mods available on console, the economies would probably become somewhat aligned, and make merging peoples' "stuff" fair. However, it would take a long time for this to even out.



  • Amottica
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    Amottica wrote: »
    Amottica wrote: »
    Amottica wrote: »
    blktauna wrote: »
    If it means I lose my add-ons on PC then absolutely not. And how would duplicate names be resolved? I would be livid if I lost any of my characters' names.

    There are just too many drawbacks to this suggestion, especially this late in the game.

    What they would need to do when merging the databases is come up with a unique identifier attached to each players username and that would be what's yours instead of character names. Like SilverBride#1234. You can then name your character whatever you want but someone else can use that same name as well. I don't know why that's not the way it's done already.

    Unless you are clued in to the DB schema they use, you can not assume adding/changing anything is easy or even doable.

    I agree with your comment in principle. However, I doubt the character name is the unique identifier as that would be an extremely poor db design.

    If, and it is a monumental if, Zenimax decided to go crossplay it is doubtful we will be seeing multiple characters with the same name. It is more likely that older character or even older accounts will keep their names and newer ones will be forced to choose a new name.

    Regardless, there is a reason why Zenimax has refused to create a tool to permit transfers and that reason is likely not their sole decision. It would be what stands in the way of Zenimax even considering the idea. After all, their replies in this thread do not suggest they are considering making such a change.

    Transfers took place between PC and console when the game first released and most of the AAA multiplayer games releasing today on console are coming with Crossplay so it’s unlikely they’re held back by anything more than their database and the work that would need to be put in to not break things.

    You are absolutely correct. Zenimax did copy accounts from PC to console before consoles went live. That is an entirely different ballgame than moving accounts between live servers. It is a significantly more involved process and no reasonable IT professional would transfer data into a live server willy nillly.

    Further, in my comment you quoted, I noted that there is a reason why Zenimax has been firm in not creating a tool to facilitate transfers. This is likely contractual as that is all that would make sense. If this is the case then Zenimax does not seem very interested in renegotiating such a clause. Without actually knowing why Zenimax has refused to budge on this issue we are really spinningning our wheels. That reason is the core of any real discussion to bring about change.

    Also, Zenimax does not care what other MMOs do as they are not managing those MMORPGs.

    The most likely answer is there isn’t a monetary reason to create such a tool and only a small percentage of the player base would be looking to change platforms. Right now when you migrate from console to PC you’re going to spend more money rebuying the dlc and crown store items.

    Oh no. Monetization for server transfers is extremely obvious and clear as players will pay to transfer. Many threads asking for the ability to transfer have said they will pay.

    Other games, top games, charge to move which demonstrates players are willing to pay.
    Yes its players who would be willing to pay to move servers.

    Question is if its better used of developer resources than other in game features or optimization.

    The tool only needs to be fully developed once and should not need much maintenance.
    Edited by Amottica on September 28, 2023 5:06PM
  • allup8679
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    ZOS_Kevin wrote: »
    While we don't have any news to share about cross-play or cross-save functionality at this time, we want to acknowledge that we do see this request often. We'd like to hear your thoughts on the reasons why you would like to see this functionality in ESO. What pain points are you running into that this would help solve? The feedback here is helpful for us to share with the team.

    My PS4 died 5 days after the PS5 launched so I went to Stadia bc that's what I could afford at the time.
    Stadia died and I don't have a gaming computer so I was left in the cold.
    Got a Series X for Starfield and other Bethesda games.

    Three platforms.
    3100+ CP between them. Motifs gold costumes etc... stuck on one server or another.

    I would love to play with my PS friends again. The PVP population would be helped the most.
  • Twohothardware
    Twohothardware
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    @ZOS_Kevin

    The falling PvP population is my reason for wanting to see Crossplay on ESO. On PlayStation N.A., we have three campaigns now that are basically dead at the moment, and the main campaign, Gray Host, is only fully populated during prime time. The rest of the day-one alliance will typically have double or triple the players.

    I remember the days when the main campaign was faction-locked almost around the clock, the secondary 30-day campaign was full during prime time, and even the under-Lvl 50 campaign called Blackwater at the time was quite popular.

    The only thing that can bring the active PvP experience back to what it used to be is crossplay between the three platforms.
  • boi_anachronism_
    boi_anachronism_
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    dk_dunkirk wrote: »
    I can see how cross-play would make the game feel even more packed due to a higher number of players, there are a significant number of problems however..

    1. Keyboard vs Controller

    2. Addon's vs No Addons

    3. The Economy

    Out of all of them the third one would be the hardest to see working, on PC things are massively more expensive then console, Crown rates are 10x that so what would happen if they were merged? would things become slightly cheaper for PC players but vastly more expensive for console players? would the economy meet somewhere in the middle in favor of which side has the most players? imagine the reaction of "Joe Console" when he finds out he cannot afford crown items for gold anymore because everything is 10x as expensive.

    The only way I could see cross-play working is either an extreme form of compensation for console players or a full reset of the economy, everyone would lose their gold and all materials however this is unrealistic and would probably kill the game.

    I've played both. Started PC, switched to console, went back to PC. Like you, I think the economy is the biggest obstacle to overcome.

    1) I use a controller for combat in dungeons and trials, and keyboard/mouse for writs and inventory management. I don't consider this an issue. I think controller has the advantage over keyboard for the combat in this game, unlike an FPS. You may disagree, but it's certainly not enough of a difference to make merging the player base in PVP an impossibly unfair deal. Heck, BF2042 mixes console and PC, even on an FPS. I don't know why, but they do.

    Your 2) and 3) a related, but few people seem to understand why. The economy on PC is inflated due to add-ons. They make it stupid easy to run writs across a dozen (or a few score) toons, and this injects a ton of money and high-value materials into the world all the time. It's just not worth it to do this on console. Same with running treasure maps. Dead simple on PC with mods; absolutely not worth the hassle on console without. I feel that surveys are still worth it on console, but they take longer, and some people won't do them either.

    I'm doing writs on 7 toons now, and I've created 3 more to level. I don't WANT to spend a half hour of every play session doing this, but I have to as a "defensive" posture because I'd never be able to afford the upgrade mats if I had to buy them. Before I left PC for console, and I had to sell Crowns to get enough gold to upgrade my jewelry. I'm not going to be in that position again.

    A lot of people like to say the economy is inflated on PC because of player counts, but that's nonsense. Inflation is due to an increase in money supply. It's Econ 101. Also, from what I can gather from sales data, there are about as many players on PS as there on on PC and Xbox combined. So, no. It's about mods.

    A lot of people will also say, "You don't 'understand' the economy." Sure I do. Yes, you can sell stuff -- at these inflated prices -- to get the money to buy the things you need, but to get the stuff that sells for enough to buy the other things, you have to spend HOURS farming something interesting, like certain motifs or furnishings or -- divines forbid -- doing the most-boring mini-game in the history of video games by fishing for perfect roe.

    Bethesday (I know, NOT Zenimax) has made mods a thing on console versions of Skyrim and Fallout 4. I don't see why they couldn't do the same on ESO. If they DID make mods available on console, the economies would probably become somewhat aligned, and make merging peoples' "stuff" fair. However, it would take a long time for this to even out.


    @ZOS_Kevin

    The falling PvP population is my reason for wanting to see Crossplay on ESO. On PlayStation N.A., we have three campaigns now that are basically dead at the moment, and the main campaign, Gray Host, is only fully populated during prime time. The rest of the day-one alliance will typically have double or triple the players.

    I remember the days when the main campaign was faction-locked almost around the clock, the secondary 30-day campaign was full during prime time, and even the under-Lvl 50 campaign called Blackwater at the time was quite popular.

    The only thing that can bring the active PvP experience back to what it used to be is crossplay between the three platforms.

    Pvp being dead has a lot less to do with the sever population and a lot more to do with the performance being utter garbage for a huge chunk of the player base. Id totally pvp more if i wasnt getting kicked off the server constantly or pulled through walls or rubberbanding all over the place. Yeah i absolutely would if i didnt keep getting nuked when my skills dont fire. I used to love pvp with my sorc. Of course its a wasteland. Unless it is small battles it almost unplayable for a lot of us. Id wager a ton of ppl would back me up on that.

    And just to clarify my connection is excellent and run through lan soo...
  • Bl4ckR3alm93
    Bl4ckR3alm93
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    Summary

    Crossplay and Cross Save should only happen between consoles in my opinion with PC being left out because of Economy and add ons. PlayStation and Xbox economies are extremely identical, with Crown Gifting being the exact same ratio ( 100-200 Gold per Crown ). At the very least I feel like we should have Cross Save for the sole reason that Zenimax is owned by Microsoft now and future Bethesda titles could still be exclusives on Xbox and PC. PlayStation players ( such as myself ) want to move to the Xbox Family. Cross Save, Cross Play, Play Anywhere and GamePass is literally the future that Phil Spencer talks about frequently so of course Microsoft would want a big MMO such as ESO to be played everywhere which MMORPG was the very area that Microsoft lacked before the Zenimax acquisition. Also the transfer from other platforms to PC (If PC is included in migration ) and Xbox is easier since you wouldn't need to rebuy ESO if you end up getting GamePass.

    Crown Store and DLCs

    The DLCs shouldn't be an issue at all actually since we can buy DLCs and expansions within the game itself so our purchases should be cross saved. The issue that Destiny 2 has is that the DLCs have to be purchased within the store. You can't buy Destiny 2 DLCs with silver and theres no Gifting System for it which is why everything had to be repurchased. ESO on the other hand does have the options to buy DLCs in the store or the game itself. ESO Plus would be the only thing that wouldn't be Cross Platform which is perfectly fine too me. In the case that our DLCs arent cross saved,

    1. We can just rebuy all DLCs with Gold instead of real money because of the Gifting System
    2. Buy ESO Plus and just pick up where you left off ( I can see this being the main option for many and would boost ESO Plus sales )
    3. Wait for the latest Expansion to release and purchase that since you automatically get ESO the game and all past Expansions when you purchase the new Expansion. ( ZoS does this for every new Expansion ).

    PlayStation is getting more and more expensive with their accessories and consoles so I wouldn't mind making the transition to Xbox. I already have a Xbox Series X now because of Starfield but I dont play ESO on it because I have over 8000 hours on my PlayStation account. I honestly would buy a Cross Save Token if ZoS were to monetize that to be honest 😂 ( I know alot of people dont want to hear that but lets be honest we all would do it ).


    @ZOS_Kevin
    Edited by Bl4ckR3alm93 on October 12, 2023 12:53PM
  • Rogue_WolfESO
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    Cross-saving between the NA and EU servers would be a great option. I want to get into the EU side with some twitch friends, but have no desire to go through another 4 years of work to level up to CP 2400 like I am on NA. So, a cross-save option is attractive.
  • dk_dunkirk
    dk_dunkirk
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    At the very least I feel like we should have Cross Save for the sole reason that Zenimax is owned by Microsoft now and future Bethesda titles could still be exclusives on Xbox and PC. PlayStation players ( such as myself ) want to move to the Xbox Family.

    Bleh. It makes me sick to think that Bethesda could close down the Playstation servers to make ESO an exclusive, but after watching Microsoft for 30 years, I don't believe it's beyond the realm of possibility, despite all the fanboys who might pile on and say how ridiculous that would be. I have about 2000 hours on the PC, and about 300 on the Playstation. I thought I was going to make PS my "home" for the foreseeable future, so I bought the assistants and the "catch up" packs from the Crown store, and got a lot of things I didn't even have on PC. IRL friends pulled me back to PC, and now I wish I could transfer those Crown store items over from PS to PC and just "close out" the PS account. Despite the in-game economies being very different, the Crown store items cost exactly the same on every platform, so it wouldn't "break" anything. I would gladly lose the characters and items to just consolidate the Crown store items. And, hey, make any duplicate items re-giftable, as long as I'm dreaming. Anyway, if they were to close the PS server(s) -- or even just start treating it like a second-class citizen with delayed updates or some such -- it would seem that they would need provide a migration path, and give people an "out." And even if they swear to the divines and sign a contract in blood that they would never do this, I still think there should be an option to do something like I'm suggesting. A ONE TIME "merge" of AT LEAST Crown store items, and to archive the account.
  • virtus753
    virtus753
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    dk_dunkirk wrote: »
    At the very least I feel like we should have Cross Save for the sole reason that Zenimax is owned by Microsoft now and future Bethesda titles could still be exclusives on Xbox and PC. PlayStation players ( such as myself ) want to move to the Xbox Family.

    Bleh. It makes me sick to think that Bethesda could close down the Playstation servers to make ESO an exclusive, but after watching Microsoft for 30 years, I don't believe it's beyond the realm of possibility, despite all the fanboys who might pile on and say how ridiculous that would be. I have about 2000 hours on the PC, and about 300 on the Playstation. I thought I was going to make PS my "home" for the foreseeable future, so I bought the assistants and the "catch up" packs from the Crown store, and got a lot of things I didn't even have on PC. IRL friends pulled me back to PC, and now I wish I could transfer those Crown store items over from PS to PC and just "close out" the PS account. Despite the in-game economies being very different, the Crown store items cost exactly the same on every platform, so it wouldn't "break" anything. I would gladly lose the characters and items to just consolidate the Crown store items. And, hey, make any duplicate items re-giftable, as long as I'm dreaming. Anyway, if they were to close the PS server(s) -- or even just start treating it like a second-class citizen with delayed updates or some such -- it would seem that they would need provide a migration path, and give people an "out." And even if they swear to the divines and sign a contract in blood that they would never do this, I still think there should be an option to do something like I'm suggesting. A ONE TIME "merge" of AT LEAST Crown store items, and to archive the account.

    As part of the antitrust approval process for Microsoft's acquisition of ZeniMax Media, Microsoft promised that it would "not make any existing ZeniMax games exclusive to Xbox." It is only forthcoming products (e.g. Starfield, Elder Scrolls VI, etc.) that will be exclusives.
  • dk_dunkirk
    dk_dunkirk
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    virtus753 wrote: »
    As part of the antitrust approval process for Microsoft's acquisition of ZeniMax Media, Microsoft promised that it would "not make any existing ZeniMax games exclusive to Xbox." It is only forthcoming products (e.g. Starfield, Elder Scrolls VI, etc.) that will be exclusives.

    They also said that Windows 10 would be the "last" version of Windows. They also killed the Kin, the Zune, the Band, and their phone. They've also left a trail of discontinued software. Companies say whatever they need to say, in order to, oh, I don't know, persuade governmental regulatory agencies to approve one of the biggest and most lucrative mergers of all time.

    ZOS won't support M-chips on Apple hardware. Valve just unceremonially dropped support for Macs with CS2. Big companies change their direction all the time, and always cite the most reasonable of excuses for doing so.

    People are always saying how there's "no players" on console. That's not my experience, but Beth/ZOS doesn't release numbers about it, so there's no way to tell, and it could be used a smoke screen in a few more years. "Due to dwindling numbers of players on Playstation..."

    You say, hey, wait, why would they kill something that could make them money? Except that they could have made a lot MORE money if they'd have released Starfield on PS, so they're already proving that they're willing to forego revenue to make a point, as many other companies do, including Sony.
  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    Tandor wrote: »
    And performance. The PC servers struggle as it is.

    I play on PCNA and I have never had performance issues.

    also never really had performance issues

    the only time its even remotely noticeable is large fights in cyro with multiple ball groups present, ball groups are the only thing that really causes severe performance problems

    I've never had any performance problems either, but then I don't do PvP or competitive PvE or any formally grouped content, nor do I use any add-ons or belong to any guilds - i.e. my database requirements are as minimal as they can be. Are you seriously suggesting that no-one else has had performance issues, and that the server infrastructure always expands to cope with whatever demand is thrown at it? You don't think that importing console players onto PC won't create any performance issues? If so, I admire your optimism!

  • Tyrant_Tim
    Tyrant_Tim
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    Tandor wrote: »
    Tandor wrote: »
    And performance. The PC servers struggle as it is.

    I play on PCNA and I have never had performance issues.

    also never really had performance issues

    the only time its even remotely noticeable is large fights in cyro with multiple ball groups present, ball groups are the only thing that really causes severe performance problems

    I've never had any performance problems either, but then I don't do PvP or competitive PvE or any formally grouped content, nor do I use any add-ons or belong to any guilds - i.e. my database requirements are as minimal as they can be. Are you seriously suggesting that no-one else has had performance issues, and that the server infrastructure always expands to cope with whatever demand is thrown at it? You don't think that importing console players onto PC won't create any performance issues? If so, I admire your optimism!

    Why are you assuming that console players would be ported to PC? If you’ve ever been in a separate instance as your friend, you know very well how easily the mega-server handles overflow, especially in Overland.

    It’s a non-issue in Cyrodiil and instanced PvE regardless, as they have caps.
  • Twohothardware
    Twohothardware
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    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    Tandor wrote: »
    Tandor wrote: »
    And performance. The PC servers struggle as it is.

    I play on PCNA and I have never had performance issues.

    also never really had performance issues

    the only time its even remotely noticeable is large fights in cyro with multiple ball groups present, ball groups are the only thing that really causes severe performance problems

    I've never had any performance problems either, but then I don't do PvP or competitive PvE or any formally grouped content, nor do I use any add-ons or belong to any guilds - i.e. my database requirements are as minimal as they can be. Are you seriously suggesting that no-one else has had performance issues, and that the server infrastructure always expands to cope with whatever demand is thrown at it? You don't think that importing console players onto PC won't create any performance issues? If so, I admire your optimism!

    Why are you assuming that console players would be ported to PC? If you’ve ever been in a separate instance as your friend, you know very well how easily the mega-server handles overflow, especially in Overland.

    It’s a non-issue in Cyrodiil and instanced PvE regardless, as they have caps.

    Exactly. If PlayStation, Xbox, and PC were merged through Crossplay you would still have the same cap as now for players in a Cyrodiil campaign and Overland/town areas would be populated but instanced so that performance is still good.

    Cyrodiil needs Crossplay bad right now. Gray Host is the only Campaign still active enough to call a Campaign and numbers during off peak hours are the lowest I've seen since I started playing in 2016.
  • dk_dunkirk
    dk_dunkirk
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    dk_dunkirk wrote: »
    virtus753 wrote: »
    As part of the antitrust approval process for Microsoft's acquisition of ZeniMax Media, Microsoft promised that it would "not make any existing ZeniMax games exclusive to Xbox." It is only forthcoming products (e.g. Starfield, Elder Scrolls VI, etc.) that will be exclusives.

    You say, hey, wait, why would they kill something that could make them money? Except that they could have made a lot MORE money if they'd have released Starfield on PS, so they're already proving that they're willing to forego revenue to make a point, as many other companies do, including Sony.

    Now that I think about it, Bethesda promised a next-gen update of Fallout 4 on PS5 an entire year ago, and I can't find any update about that now.
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