Ramping Cost for Nightblade Cloak
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Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Nerfing the Templar bubble was probably the worst decision by zos in pvp last year. The cloak nerf exactly sounds like that
Nerfing streak, BOL and warden shimmering shield all fall in the same category
Nerf stupid proc sets and not skills which require button presses.
There is no point talking about any class skills tbh because they aren’t even the main source of damage or defense on any class
Did you get hacked ? This doesn’t sound like you
What part doesn’t sound like me?
NB is still the strongest class in the game since beginning of time lol and Nb mains don’t acknowledge it or know how to play their class
Now what I don’t agree is zos nerfing BOL or streak when bow proc hits so hard. Or zos not reducing cost of streak when cloak does not have ramping cost.
If you nerf nb skills we have 2 useless classes sorc and nb. What good does that do for anyone ?
I have always maintained strong classes are good for the game as long as they are class skills requiring actual button presses rather than the afk sorc we have today.
I assure you nb will be fine with a ramp up cost on cloak. Nb has access to more survival tools outside of cloak than sorc does outside of streak
It will probably start with cloak and the forums will move to the next strong skill of the NB maybe bow proc or burst heal. This is never ending if you ask me.
It played out exactly the same way with sorc and still hasn't ended (ZOS is still at it nerfing destro staff which only affects sorc)
Apart from you and maybe a few others how many NB's really know how to use cloak and shade ?
Why hurt 1-5% PVP'ers who actually know how to play this game ?
I'm telling you it will only make a difference if you are spamming cloak, but if you are doing that then you deserve to be punished (in gameplay sense) for it. But at the very least there should be some downsides considering the buff that nb is getting on pts. I hope I don't see you posting any nb needs nerf/to be toned down comments if the cloak changes through next patch.Edited by Alchimiste1 on July 17, 2023 10:10PM0 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭Shepoffire wrote: »
As much as I would be delighted to. I am on console. Just leaves me wondering if you're so experienced, how do you struggle with fighting cloaking nightblades with the counters provided. All you need is camo hunter it's not that hard
Let me help you out there. He probably struggles as much as you or anyone would if we took the ramping cost off of streak. Just think about that for a second. They both have counters that can be slotted etc but the point is that something that as a skill offers such a strong effect should be limited in its ability to be spammed.
It's just about game balance. Also if cloak became unusable after the change I'd be all for reverting but it should at least be tried.5 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Nerfing the Templar bubble was probably the worst decision by zos in pvp last year. The cloak nerf exactly sounds like that
Nerfing streak, BOL and warden shimmering shield all fall in the same category
Nerf stupid proc sets and not skills which require button presses.
There is no point talking about any class skills tbh because they aren’t even the main source of damage or defense on any class
Did you get hacked ? This doesn’t sound like you
What part doesn’t sound like me?
NB is still the strongest class in the game since beginning of time lol and Nb mains don’t acknowledge it or know how to play their class
Now what I don’t agree is zos nerfing BOL or streak when bow proc hits so hard. Or zos not reducing cost of streak when cloak does not have ramping cost.
If you nerf nb skills we have 2 useless classes sorc and nb. What good does that do for anyone ?
I have always maintained strong classes are good for the game as long as they are class skills requiring actual button presses rather than the afk sorc we have today.
I assure you nb will be fine with a ramp up cost on cloak. Nb has access to more survival tools outside of cloak than sorc does outside of streak
It will probably start with cloak and the forums will move to the next strong skill of the NB maybe bow proc or burst heal. This is never ending if you ask me.
It played out exactly the same way with sorc and still hasn't ended (ZOS is still at it nerfing destro staff which only affects sorc)
Apart from you and maybe a few others how many NB's really know how to use cloak and shade ?
Why hurt 1-5% PVP'ers who actually know how to play this game ?
I'm telling you it will only make a difference if you are spamming cloak, but if you are doing that then you deserve to be punished (in gameplay sense) for it. But at the very least there should be some downsides considering the buff that nb is getting on pts. I hope I don't see you posting any nb needs nerf/to be toned down comments if the cloak changes through next patch.
Ok so when I say NB is the best class / Invincible/ Bow proc deletes everything, all those still hold true.
Just because something is strong in this game doesn't mean it should be nerfed. It means other classes which are thrash tier need to be exponentially buffed.
You can go ahead and check my comments, there might be a rare instance where I have asked for a nerf on a class skill if you manage to find one.2 -
JerBearESO✭✭✭✭Maybe if cloaked actually worked rather than constantly breaking I'd maybe give it a thought (I wouldn't) but with how it's working on live, nah
Yeah what's with the amount of times cloak has been broken? They break it within 1 or 2 patches of fixing every time, and now it seems like they given up on fixing it.
Seriously the most bugged ability in the game right now with how many things pull the user out of it that have been confirmed as unintentional. Confirmed by the numerous times those very things were fixed, albeit for a very brief time...each time....2 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Shepoffire wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Shadowy Disguise is not any close to mechanic of streak and mist form. Besides game give you many ways to counter it. Its like adding ramping cost to any other skill, that you dont like such as Elemental Susceptibility (still 0 cost lol), Vigor etc.
And only 1 of them is actually reliable enough to be used, which is Detect Potions, which just recently got buffed. Even then, you are wasting 45s of better potions like Tripots or Armor pots, or an entire skill slot that has no use out side of countering 1 class that so happens to be obnoxiously common in Cyrodiil PvP
Meanwhile, Streak and Mist Form are easily countered by slotting a gap closer, which also has multiple uses outside of countering Streak and Mist users (for example, Rushing Agony with Stampede is widely used to bomb zergs). Heck, even sprinting is sufficient to counter a Streak/Mist user. I mean just look at this video where I chased down a magsorc with just sprinting.
https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
Not true. You are not wasting 45 seconds. The new buff to pots is awful. If you can't kill the nb when you reveal them then that's on bad players.
Asking for yet another nerf to cloak is absurd.
Most nbs hiding in stealth and using cloak are squishy like glass. [snip]
Nobody's saying anything about not being able to kill squishy NBs. Don't use a strawman argument against me dude.
My argument is the counters for Streak/Mist are more effective and require less sacrifice than the counters for Cloak. Movement speed is abundant and easy to get without sacrificing a lot, and gap closer is useful for all scenarios, not just against Streak. Meanwhile, a detect potion is only useful against NB, and I have to sacrifice Major Prophecy because I'm getting it from pots. Camo Hunter/Inner Light is only useful against NB and don't even work most of the time. I can use a gap closer to chase someone down, or use it with Rushing Agony or other sets to deal extra damage. I can't do that with Camo Hunter/Inner Light.
Cloak needs a ramping cost, and it's long overdue. If you can't play a NB without Cloak, then I could say it's something you need to improve on.
[edited to remove quote]
Straw man argument? I haven't heard a single reason yet that justifies what you all are asking for. I might be wrong but don't you post different daily nerf posts?
If your saying you have no trouble killing nbs then why are you asking for a nerf? Survive the opening. Pop a detect pot, mage light, camo hunter, or any or the other nerfs in game. How exactly is the nb getting away? Especially if it's a detect pot? You can literally see them anywhere. Streak towards/through them and they dead.
Straw man argument? You mean like saying you shouldn't have to use the most powerful counter because you have to wait 45 seconds to use another? Like seriously. That's as strawman as it gets.
You straw manned me by saying it's a L2P issue to kill squishy NBs. Did I ever say anything about having difficulty killing squishy NBs?
The argument is about Cloak. You don't need to be a squishy NB to use Cloak. I can be in 30k resistance with 3.4k crit resist and still be able to use Cloak. Now I'm much harder to kill, and I can also disappear when I want. That's what many brawlerblades will be doing next patch with Cloak buff.
I'm sorry, but people like you add to the problem. Using strawman arguments to make yours appear more credible is a shameful tactic to try shutting down a legitimate balance request.
This is laughable. You post daily nerf threads. I have seen one of them be close to reasonable. There is one person spamming for nerfs daily. And it's not me.
I made a thread about Relequen being broken and it got a bunch of backlash. Guess what? Now everyone is realizing it's broken.
Most of my threads are legitimate complaints. I am also open to discussion, but people just don't want to discuss.
Agree to disagree. As do most others to your posts. They are centered around all classes but your own. Hence the large amount of feedback you get to l2p. Sorry man, but it is what it is. You are entitled to your opinions but if you post that amount expect not to be taken seriously. Or boy cried wolf. Take you pick.
Clearly Zos feels its underperforming, which I disagree with, and is buffing it. Which is too bad as I feel it's fine the way it is.
The compromise should be to cancel the buff and leave it alone.
Or maybe, just maybe, the vast majority of the forums are casual players and don’t experience the same thing I do?
It’s pretty bold to claim I have a l2p issue when I could probably out-experience the vast majority of them in a fight, not being toxic here.
Please step foot in Stormhaven or BG and fight the players I’m fighting. I’m sure most people here wouldn’t last 10 seconds.
[snip]
Because I am lol. Not the best, but very experienced in my class and experienced enough to talk about PvP. Idc if you think otherwise, there are plenty of people on the forums who can confirm that.
If you or anyone doubt, I’m always dueling in Stormhaven on PC NA and would love a challenge. I also do BGs so queue up too while you’re at it.
[snip]
Nah, I’m just tired of having to explain to people why NB is over tuned and Cloak nerf is long over due. Especially when multiple attempts telling me to l2p were thrown at me 🤣 You have no idea how I play lmao.
I can tell you right now that up until the recent detect potion buff, NB has been a pain in the arse even with Camo Hunter, Streak, and old detect pots. The NBs I fight move at high speed while in cloak so even if I pulled him out, he would just constantly be out of melee range unless I slot a gap closer. Imagine doing that much to counter 1 spec.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 18, 2023 1:09PMPlatform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Said it once I'll say it again:
If you use streak 4+ times in a row, you will most likely get away from a fight.
No, you don't. Even if you do, you've just spent 20k worth of magicka for maybe 8-9 seconds of breathing room, then whoever was chasing you will be right up your arse, like me in this video:https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
He streaked 3x in a row, and I caught up to him in 7 seconds. Make it 9 seconds if he streaked 4 times. He probably wasted 15k mag right there. I wasted 2k stam from sprinting. I wasn't even in 3x swift, nor should I have refreshed Hurricane that early, but the point is I wasted much less resources than he did.
The argument that Streaking multiple times in a row allows you to get away is outdated. You could in the past. You can't in the present.
And neither does cloak. With these new detect pots in counters all nbs in the area. They are constantly up. There is no pot that counters all sorcs in the area is there?
Trying to get away while being detected burns all our resources too.
You still don't get it do you?
Wasting 45s of sustain from Tri pot, Spell/Weapon Crit pot, or even Armor pot for 15s of detect is a HUGE sacrifice compared to say, using 3x Swift and Celerity CP.
You clearly don't play other classes or Sorc. If you did, you would know how easy it is to counter Streak and how difficult it is to counter Cloak without making major sacrifices.
No. You still don't get it. Its a I win button against most nightblades. There is no comparison to others. Give me a pot that renders your class useless.
Again, I have played since launch. I have 18 toons.
Giving up three traits and a CP is a huge sacrifice and it doesn't guarantee a kill. A pot does almost guarantee a kill.
But there is nothing stopping NBs from building tanky and using Cloak, so how can that be an I-win button? Unless you’re telling me killing a NB with 30k armor and 3.4k crit resist is easy?StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Said it once I'll say it again:
If you use streak 4+ times in a row, you will most likely get away from a fight.
No, you don't. Even if you do, you've just spent 20k worth of magicka for maybe 8-9 seconds of breathing room, then whoever was chasing you will be right up your arse, like me in this video:https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
He streaked 3x in a row, and I caught up to him in 7 seconds. Make it 9 seconds if he streaked 4 times. He probably wasted 15k mag right there. I wasted 2k stam from sprinting. I wasn't even in 3x swift, nor should I have refreshed Hurricane that early, but the point is I wasted much less resources than he did.
The argument that Streaking multiple times in a row allows you to get away is outdated. You could in the past. You can't in the present.
And neither does cloak. With these new detect pots in counters all nbs in the area. They are constantly up. There is no pot that counters all sorcs in the area is there?
Trying to get away while being detected burns all our resources too.
You still don't get it do you?
Wasting 45s of sustain from Tri pot, Spell/Weapon Crit pot, or even Armor pot for 15s of detect is a HUGE sacrifice compared to say, using 3x Swift and Celerity CP.
You clearly don't play other classes or Sorc. If you did, you would know how easy it is to counter Streak and how difficult it is to counter Cloak without making major sacrifices.
No. You still don't get it. Its a I win button against most nightblades. There is no comparison to others. Give me a pot that renders your class useless.
Again, I have played since launch. I have 18 toons.
Giving up three traits and a CP is a huge sacrifice and it doesn't guarantee a kill. A pot does almost guarantee a kill.
But there is nothing stopping NBs from building tanky and using Cloak, so how can that be an I-win button? Unless you’re telling me killing a NB with 30k armor and 3.4k crit resist is easy?
But the reality of the matter is players like myself effectively use counters to pull NBs out of stealth. I was clumsy with this in the beginning but got pretty good as I like to hunt gankers when I run solo.
And looking at a specific build being more difficult to kill is not relevant to the core discussion of this thread.
It is in fact relevant to the core discussion because multiple Cloak defenders have argued that NB is really squishy and easy to kill when Cloak is countered.
I showed everyone the builds that make a NB tanky while having good damage to use with Cloak. The fact of the matter is every good brawlerblade WILL use Cloak next patch on their 30k armor build. There is nothing stopping them now. What stopped them tho was having to access Major Savagery through Camo Hunter.
Cloak either needs to have a ramping cost with the Savagery buff, or have the Savagery buff removed.
It’s not relevant to the core discussion at all as it doesn’t affect cloak or the effectiveness of counters to cloak.
Zenimax’s standard is that there is a counter. Zenimax can see that players like myself use those counters very effectively which means there is no need to have any ramping costs.
The real question is why are some players like myself able to effectively use counters to cloak while some people seem to find them challenging. Is it a difference in play styles, taking the time to figure out which counters work best for the player, or choosing to not use a counter.
My guess is it’s a little bit of each but it would be great why some players find the counters challenging when we know they work.
I could say the exact same thing about streak though. How many comments on this thread alone, let alone all the other threads about sorc, have been all about streak being "un-counterable" (despite clear video evidence that proves the opposite) as the main reason commenters use to keep sorcs from getting any significant fixes/QoL improvements/reworks/buffs. Yet streak still has its ramping cost and isn't receiving a buff to it next patch either.
And there its is again. After arguing cloak needs to have ramping coat like streak, after comparing streak to cloak, now you say sorcs shouldn't have ramp cost and she be buffed.
[snip]
[snip]
It's never been about "wanting others to have the same issue" it's been about bringing attention to clear and obvious imbalances within the game.
[snip] You cannot have it both ways, either NB gets brought down to the power level of other classes or other classes are allowed to be brought up to NBs level.
Myself and many other sorc mains tried the other approach that many have suggested of asking for buffs to sorc, especially back in U36 when sorc was in a completely unplayable state for PvP. But all those threads got was constant crying from NBs that constantly harassed and derailed those threads about sorc claiming it was still completely overpowered and NB was still completely unplayable like it was still 2018/2019 and subsequently got those threads derailed and completely ignored by the devs who decided that the only class that was completely dependent on overpowered procs in PvP to attempt to keep up with other classes was "fine as is" despite clear evidence that it was not.
It has been made abundantly clear over the past year that sorc mains are not allowed to ask for buffs/fixes/reworks/QoL improvements to their class and are not welcome here on the forums, the NBs that flood the forums have ensured this with complete harassment and derailment of any and all sorc threads, even those that asked for simple buffs like updated passives or a more reliable heal. What did you expect to happen if sorc mains aren't allowed to ask for fixes, buffs or QoL improvements to their class without being harassed like that? They are naturally going to compare their class to the other similar class that is supposed to be "high damage for low survivability" and ask for nerfs to that other class instead.
Maybe if people like yourself (not specifically you, but people like you) had stayed off sorc threads (instead of harassing and derailing them to no end) that simply asked for fair buffs, fixes and reworks to sorcs to make the class kit cohesive, synergistic and playable as a class kit and not just as a set of support abilities for a generic proc build that abuses the latest overpowered proc sets that can be ran just as effectively on any other class, there wouldn't be this huge comparison with NBs now, especially since the devs seem intent on making an already overtuned class in PvP even stronger in PvP under the blatantly false guise of "helping it in PvE".
If ZOS truly wanted to buff NBs for PvE content without buffing them even further in PvP, they would make a bunch of improvements that are tied to the "damage against monsters" or "while battle spirit is not active" clauses instead of generic flat buffs that are active everywhere.
They could have easily moved the unique 10% damage from concealed to the base morph, but given it the clause that its only applied when battle spirit is not active or only when dealing damage to monsters.
They could have instead tied their latest proposed buff to cloak granting major prophecy/savagery (a buff that NB did not need) to only work when battle spirit is not active instead of leaving it active at all times on both bars for having cloak slotted on 1 bar, essentially giving NB a free bar slot in PvP.
There are countless ways ZOS could have easily buffed NBs for PvE only, like they claimed they were doing for this patch, but instead they buffed it for both PvE and PvP when it was already one of the top classes in PvP. If you're angry about balance suggestions for NB being brought up, maybe ask ZOS to focus their buffs where NB needs it (for PvE only) instead of generic flat buffs that apply everywhere and will only serve to increase the call for much bigger nerfs later on.
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]
Precisely this. I do believe NB players make up the majority of the forums, followed by Sorc, so clashing between these two is bound to happen.
What I don’t like is how NB mains pretend their class is still weak in PvP when it’s in fact one of the best classes in PvP. Look at the top tier players for an easy insight. Most of them agree that NB is currently 1-2 tiers above Sorc.
Using my anecdotal evidence, I’ve heard many NB mains who wanted to try stamsorc and the first thing they tell me is always “man how do you heal on this class? I feel so squishy”. I’m not surprised at all lol. Going from a top-tier class with one of the best burst heals in the game to a class with mediocre HoTs and non existent burst heal will feel like that 🤣
So either buff Sorc, or nerf NB in PvP. We don’t need anymore NB buffs for PvP
Where is all this nb mains say they are weak? Now your just making stuff up. The majority aren't asking for buffs. We are defending nerfs. Nice try
Ganker mains say that. Also, do you realize that all your buffs were intended for PvE? NB never needed a damage buff in PvP lol.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc1 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Shepoffire wrote: »DrNukenstein wrote: »Ramping cost needs to be paired with the first second being unbreakable, in addition there's an argument for making it possible to roll or sprint while cloaked if a ramping cost gets introduced.
Most arguments against a ramping cost are tied to how easy it is to break cloak. Most arguments for a ramping cost ignore that almost anything other than self only buffs (not heals, except rally and sated frenzy) and walking will take you out of cloak.
This. I'm all for the ramping costm as long as it last 5 seconds and it cant be broken or grants snare/ immobilization immunity
LOL. Streak should teleport 30m, gives CC Immunity and deals spammable dmg then 🤣Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Shepoffire wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Shepoffire wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Shadowy Disguise is not any close to mechanic of streak and mist form. Besides game give you many ways to counter it. Its like adding ramping cost to any other skill, that you dont like such as Elemental Susceptibility (still 0 cost lol), Vigor etc.
And only 1 of them is actually reliable enough to be used, which is Detect Potions, which just recently got buffed. Even then, you are wasting 45s of better potions like Tripots or Armor pots, or an entire skill slot that has no use out side of countering 1 class that so happens to be obnoxiously common in Cyrodiil PvP
Meanwhile, Streak and Mist Form are easily countered by slotting a gap closer, which also has multiple uses outside of countering Streak and Mist users (for example, Rushing Agony with Stampede is widely used to bomb zergs). Heck, even sprinting is sufficient to counter a Streak/Mist user. I mean just look at this video where I chased down a magsorc with just sprinting.https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
Not true. You are not wasting 45 seconds. The new buff to pots is awful. If you can't kill the nb when you reveal them then that's on bad players.
Asking for yet another nerf to cloak is absurd.
Most nbs hiding in stealth and using cloak are squishy like glass. [snip]
Nobody's saying anything about not being able to kill squishy NBs. Don't use a strawman argument against me dude.
My argument is the counters for Streak/Mist are more effective and require less sacrifice than the counters for Cloak. Movement speed is abundant and easy to get without sacrificing a lot, and gap closer is useful for all scenarios, not just against Streak. Meanwhile, a detect potion is only useful against NB, and I have to sacrifice Major Prophecy because I'm getting it from pots. Camo Hunter/Inner Light is only useful against NB and don't even work most of the time. I can use a gap closer to chase someone down, or use it with Rushing Agony or other sets to deal extra damage. I can't do that with Camo Hunter/Inner Light.
Cloak needs a ramping cost, and it's long overdue. If you can't play a NB without Cloak, then I could say it's something you need to improve on.
[edited to remove quote]
Straw man argument? I haven't heard a single reason yet that justifies what you all are asking for. I might be wrong but don't you post different daily nerf posts?
If your saying you have no trouble killing nbs then why are you asking for a nerf? Survive the opening. Pop a detect pot, mage light, camo hunter, or any or the other nerfs in game. How exactly is the nb getting away? Especially if it's a detect pot? You can literally see them anywhere. Streak towards/through them and they dead.
Straw man argument? You mean like saying you shouldn't have to use the most powerful counter because you have to wait 45 seconds to use another? Like seriously. That's as strawman as it gets.
You straw manned me by saying it's a L2P issue to kill squishy NBs. Did I ever say anything about having difficulty killing squishy NBs?
The argument is about Cloak. You don't need to be a squishy NB to use Cloak. I can be in 30k resistance with 3.4k crit resist and still be able to use Cloak. Now I'm much harder to kill, and I can also disappear when I want. That's what many brawlerblades will be doing next patch with Cloak buff.
I'm sorry, but people like you add to the problem. Using strawman arguments to make yours appear more credible is a shameful tactic to try shutting down a legitimate balance request.
This is laughable. You post daily nerf threads. I have seen one of them be close to reasonable. There is one person spamming for nerfs daily. And it's not me.
I made a thread about Relequen being broken and it got a bunch of backlash. Guess what? Now everyone is realizing it's broken.
Most of my threads are legitimate complaints. I am also open to discussion, but people just don't want to discuss.
Agree to disagree. As do most others to your posts. They are centered around all classes but your own. Hence the large amount of feedback you get to l2p. Sorry man, but it is what it is. You are entitled to your opinions but if you post that amount expect not to be taken seriously. [snip]
Clearly Zos feels its underperforming, which I disagree with, and is buffing it. Which is too bad as I feel it's fine the way it is.
The compromise should be to cancel the buff and leave it alone.
Or maybe, just maybe, the vast majority of the forums are casual players and don’t experience the same thing I do?
It’s pretty bold to claim I have a l2p issue when I could probably out-experience the vast majority of them in a fight, not being toxic here.
Please step foot in Stormhaven or BG and fight the players I’m fighting. [snip]
[snip]
Because I am lol. Not the best, but very experienced in my class and experienced enough to talk about PvP. Idc if you think otherwise, there are plenty of people on the forums who can confirm that.
If you or anyone doubt, I’m always dueling in Stormhaven on PC NA and would love a challenge. I also do BGs so queue up too while you’re at it.
As much as I would be delighted to. I am on console. Just leaves me wondering if you're so experienced, how do you struggle with fighting cloaking nightblades with the counters provided. All you need is camo hunter it's not that hard
There’s a thing called server lag, location desync, and fast movement speed. Assuming both of you have 100ms, then it takes 100ms for the server to register that you used Camo Hunter, then another 100ms to pull the other guy out of stealth. 200ms is a lot of distance covered for a NB with fast movement speed. Most of the time he is out of range of Camo Hunter even with 8m range. I’ve only successfully pulled NBs out maybe once out of 3 times with it? That’s not a counter if it’s that unreliable lol.
Streak counters are much more reliable. You see someone streak, you hit gap close and be right up on their butt.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 18, 2023 1:25PMPlatform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc2 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bushido2513 wrote: »Shepoffire wrote: »
As much as I would be delighted to. I am on console. Just leaves me wondering if you're so experienced, how do you struggle with fighting cloaking nightblades with the counters provided. All you need is camo hunter it's not that hard
Let me help you out there. He probably struggles as much as you or anyone would if we took the ramping cost off of streak. Just think about that for a second. They both have counters that can be slotted etc but the point is that something that as a skill offers such a strong effect should be limited in its ability to be spammed.
It's just about game balance. Also if cloak became unusable after the change I'd be all for reverting but it should at least be tried.
Yea this. Remember when Streak had no ramping cost and people could chain Streak for days even with gap closers slotted?
Why did Streak get a ramping cost but Cloak didn’t lol? It makes no sense when 2 abilities are similar in function.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc3 -
JerBearESO✭✭✭✭Shepoffire wrote: »DrNukenstein wrote: »Ramping cost needs to be paired with the first second being unbreakable, in addition there's an argument for making it possible to roll or sprint while cloaked if a ramping cost gets introduced.
Most arguments against a ramping cost are tied to how easy it is to break cloak. Most arguments for a ramping cost ignore that almost anything other than self only buffs (not heals, except rally and sated frenzy) and walking will take you out of cloak.
This. I'm all for the ramping costm as long as it last 5 seconds and it cant be broken or grants snare/ immobilization immunity
This actually becomes perfectly balanced IF we add in two conditions.
1. Create an area on stealth wherein if you leave it you unstealth early.
2. Taking direct damage flashes some kind of untargetable indicator of the users position0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Let me also remind everyone that if you use Cloak at the right moment, you can negate the damage of Crystal Fragment, Spectral Bow, or any projectile with a travel time completely. I have had this happen to me many times when fighting NBs and it's annoying as hell.
Cloak is doing way too much without any penalty. I can't see any sensible argument against Cloak nerf.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc3 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »Shepoffire wrote: »
As much as I would be delighted to. I am on console. Just leaves me wondering if you're so experienced, how do you struggle with fighting cloaking nightblades with the counters provided. All you need is camo hunter it's not that hard
Let me help you out there. He probably struggles as much as you or anyone would if we took the ramping cost off of streak. Just think about that for a second. They both have counters that can be slotted etc but the point is that something that as a skill offers such a strong effect should be limited in its ability to be spammed.
It's just about game balance. Also if cloak became unusable after the change I'd be all for reverting but it should at least be tried.
Yea this. Remember when Streak had no ramping cost and people could chain Streak for days even with gap closers slotted?
Why did Streak get a ramping cost but Cloak didn’t lol? It makes no sense when 2 abilities are similar in function.
Why not revert streak nerf instead of nerfing cloak ?
Streak is as much as a signature skill as cloak is
Not sure if you have seen u-know-who play a nb. Guy literally crutches on cloak every 2 seconds.
I would be legit surprised if nb ever received a nerf let alone cloakEdited by PhoenixGrey on July 18, 2023 4:09AM0 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »
Why not revert streak nerf instead of nerfing cloak ?
So in a way this is actually a great question. Currently streak gameplay is useful but still requires mildly correct usage to not end up running out of mag or streaks when you need them. This is good because it allows for counterplay even when you don't have a gap closer slotted because you know that the enemy is somewhat limited in the amount of streaks back to back.
If you removed that barrier sorcs would still die from time to time but there would be a lot more running troll builds, leading chases from keep to keep, running EG, etc. It doesn't sound all that bad but if enough people do it, combat could become even more annoying.
Combat should strive to be more thoughtful and rewarding and not just have a bunch of people having powerful skills repeatedly available at a low repeating cost.
2 -
ebix_✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »Shepoffire wrote: »
As much as I would be delighted to. I am on console. Just leaves me wondering if you're so experienced, how do you struggle with fighting cloaking nightblades with the counters provided. All you need is camo hunter it's not that hard
Let me help you out there. He probably struggles as much as you or anyone would if we took the ramping cost off of streak. Just think about that for a second. They both have counters that can be slotted etc but the point is that something that as a skill offers such a strong effect should be limited in its ability to be spammed.
It's just about game balance. Also if cloak became unusable after the change I'd be all for reverting but it should at least be tried.
Yea this. Remember when Streak had no ramping cost and people could chain Streak for days even with gap closers slotted?
Why did Streak get a ramping cost but Cloak didn’t lol? It makes no sense when 2 abilities are similar in function.
I remember when streak had 50% cost increase, mag sorcs used to spam it just like now. yeah it got better for stam sorcs a little but I dont think ramping cost is a good penalty even on streak, I think it should get a reduce travel distance penalty instead.
And again Streak and Cloak are not the same thing. Streak is a teleport ability and Cloak gives invisibility and I gave you multiple examples when I last quoted you.
When you use Streak you teleport 15 meters and stun everything in your way and there is nothing that can make you drop at 6 meters so you get what you pressed for 100% of the time. Streak does what it promises to do, but still if 1 out of 5 runs gap closer you get 4 less players on you. And when you use Cloak, things can break it instanlty either randomly or intentionally, so basically you can waste your resource and dont get what you pressed for.StaticWave wrote: »Shepoffire wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Shepoffire wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Shadowy Disguise is not any close to mechanic of streak and mist form. Besides game give you many ways to counter it. Its like adding ramping cost to any other skill, that you dont like such as Elemental Susceptibility (still 0 cost lol), Vigor etc.
And only 1 of them is actually reliable enough to be used, which is Detect Potions, which just recently got buffed. Even then, you are wasting 45s of better potions like Tripots or Armor pots, or an entire skill slot that has no use out side of countering 1 class that so happens to be obnoxiously common in Cyrodiil PvP
Meanwhile, Streak and Mist Form are easily countered by slotting a gap closer, which also has multiple uses outside of countering Streak and Mist users (for example, Rushing Agony with Stampede is widely used to bomb zergs). Heck, even sprinting is sufficient to counter a Streak/Mist user. I mean just look at this video where I chased down a magsorc with just sprinting.https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
Not true. You are not wasting 45 seconds. The new buff to pots is awful. If you can't kill the nb when you reveal them then that's on bad players.
Asking for yet another nerf to cloak is absurd.
Most nbs hiding in stealth and using cloak are squishy like glass. [snip]
Nobody's saying anything about not being able to kill squishy NBs. Don't use a strawman argument against me dude.
My argument is the counters for Streak/Mist are more effective and require less sacrifice than the counters for Cloak. Movement speed is abundant and easy to get without sacrificing a lot, and gap closer is useful for all scenarios, not just against Streak. Meanwhile, a detect potion is only useful against NB, and I have to sacrifice Major Prophecy because I'm getting it from pots. Camo Hunter/Inner Light is only useful against NB and don't even work most of the time. I can use a gap closer to chase someone down, or use it with Rushing Agony or other sets to deal extra damage. I can't do that with Camo Hunter/Inner Light.
Cloak needs a ramping cost, and it's long overdue. If you can't play a NB without Cloak, then I could say it's something you need to improve on.
[edited to remove quote]
Straw man argument? I haven't heard a single reason yet that justifies what you all are asking for. I might be wrong but don't you post different daily nerf posts?
If your saying you have no trouble killing nbs then why are you asking for a nerf? Survive the opening. Pop a detect pot, mage light, camo hunter, or any or the other nerfs in game. How exactly is the nb getting away? Especially if it's a detect pot? You can literally see them anywhere. Streak towards/through them and they dead.
Straw man argument? You mean like saying you shouldn't have to use the most powerful counter because you have to wait 45 seconds to use another? Like seriously. That's as strawman as it gets.
You straw manned me by saying it's a L2P issue to kill squishy NBs. Did I ever say anything about having difficulty killing squishy NBs?
The argument is about Cloak. You don't need to be a squishy NB to use Cloak. I can be in 30k resistance with 3.4k crit resist and still be able to use Cloak. Now I'm much harder to kill, and I can also disappear when I want. That's what many brawlerblades will be doing next patch with Cloak buff.
I'm sorry, but people like you add to the problem. Using strawman arguments to make yours appear more credible is a shameful tactic to try shutting down a legitimate balance request.
This is laughable. You post daily nerf threads. I have seen one of them be close to reasonable. There is one person spamming for nerfs daily. And it's not me.
I made a thread about Relequen being broken and it got a bunch of backlash. Guess what? Now everyone is realizing it's broken.
Most of my threads are legitimate complaints. I am also open to discussion, but people just don't want to discuss.
Agree to disagree. As do most others to your posts. They are centered around all classes but your own. Hence the large amount of feedback you get to l2p. Sorry man, but it is what it is. You are entitled to your opinions but if you post that amount expect not to be taken seriously. [snip]
Clearly Zos feels its underperforming, which I disagree with, and is buffing it. Which is too bad as I feel it's fine the way it is.
The compromise should be to cancel the buff and leave it alone.
Or maybe, just maybe, the vast majority of the forums are casual players and don’t experience the same thing I do?
It’s pretty bold to claim I have a l2p issue when I could probably out-experience the vast majority of them in a fight, not being toxic here.
Please step foot in Stormhaven or BG and fight the players I’m fighting. [snip]
[snip]
Because I am lol. Not the best, but very experienced in my class and experienced enough to talk about PvP. Idc if you think otherwise, there are plenty of people on the forums who can confirm that.
If you or anyone doubt, I’m always dueling in Stormhaven on PC NA and would love a challenge. I also do BGs so queue up too while you’re at it.
As much as I would be delighted to. I am on console. Just leaves me wondering if you're so experienced, how do you struggle with fighting cloaking nightblades with the counters provided. All you need is camo hunter it's not that hard
Streak counters are much more reliable. You see someone streak, you hit gap close and be right up on their butt.
I dont agree with this at all !!
1 out of 10 players might run gap closer these days, and because gap closers are generally bad and heavily punishable due to the animation lock I dont see good players run it. that 1/10 are mostly bad players that can be easily picked off when they chase far from their group. if you cant kill them simply use a 180 degree Streak to stun and before they break and turn you are 2-3 streaks away from them and they cant gap close anymore.
on the other hand any direct damage can break Cloak. there are skill dedicated to breaking it, if only one player actively use flare you are done for. when I use potion 9/10 blades that I'm chasing die and that's a huge counter. Now you say running detect pot is a sacrifice for you, I can say the same for running gap closer. I have to give up one skill to only counter one class? thats a bigger sacrifice than changing your pot for 40seconds if you ask me.
But the biggest difference is if one person runs gap closer then there is one that you have to worry about but if one person has active detect pot or any kind of detection or has any possible way to reveal you, they can break your Cloak for everyone.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 18, 2023 1:26PM3 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭JerBearESO wrote: »Shepoffire wrote: »DrNukenstein wrote: »Ramping cost needs to be paired with the first second being unbreakable, in addition there's an argument for making it possible to roll or sprint while cloaked if a ramping cost gets introduced.
Most arguments against a ramping cost are tied to how easy it is to break cloak. Most arguments for a ramping cost ignore that almost anything other than self only buffs (not heals, except rally and sated frenzy) and walking will take you out of cloak.
This. I'm all for the ramping costm as long as it last 5 seconds and it cant be broken or grants snare/ immobilization immunity
This actually becomes perfectly balanced IF we add in two conditions.
1. Create an area on stealth wherein if you leave it you unstealth early.
2. Taking direct damage flashes some kind of untargetable indicator of the users position
You guys can't be serious. Lasts five second and can't be broken ??? yeah, alright maybe if the cost increase is 500% and the penalty lasts for 8 seconds otherwise, you'd never see the effects of a ramp up cost and you would get a better cloak. Never mind you guys also want it to give snare immunity aswell. Absolutely ridiculous.
This is my last comment on this thread, [snip]
[edited for rude/insulting comment]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 18, 2023 1:10PM2 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I remember when streak had 50% cost increase, mag sorcs used to spam it just like now. yeah it got better for stam sorcs a little but I dont think ramping cost is a good penalty even on streak, I think it should get a reduce travel distance penalty instead.
And again Streak and Cloak are not the same thing. Streak is a teleport ability and Cloak gives invisibility and I gave you multiple examples when I last quoted you.
When you use Streak you teleport 15 meters and stun everything in your way and there is nothing that can make you drop at 6 meters so you get what you pressed for 100% of the time. Streak does what it promises to do, but still if 1 out of 5 runs gap closer you get 4 less players on you. And when you use Cloak, things can break it instanlty either randomly or intentionally, so basically you can waste your resource and dont get what you pressed for.
If it gets a reduced travel distance I might as well unslot it because with sprinting I can cover the same distance as a Streak user.
Teleport or invisiblity, it doesn't matter. They are both survivability tools and fall within that category. One just functions slightly different than the other to suit a class archetype and requires different counters.
I mean sure, I can teleport but it doesn't perform as it should on uneven terrain and most terrain in the game aren't exactly flat surfaces. You are still subjected to projectile damage, so you have to perform a roll mid Streak to avoid them. That's 4k mag + another 2k stam to save yourself for maybe 1-2 seconds.
I'm not saying Streak is weak. It's strong when used correctly, but the counters for Streak are just as plentiful as for Cloak. The difference is you can passively counter Streak just by stacking movement speed. You can't do that with Cloak anymore after they reworked AoE DoTs to not pull Cloak users out of stealth. I used to passively counter Cloak by running several AoE DoTs in my build, but that is now gone.
Movement speed would need to be harder to get for Streak to be as effective of an escape as Cloak right now.I dont agree with this at all !!
1 out of 10 players might run gap closer these days, and because gap closers are generally bad and heavily punishable due to the animation lock I dont see good players run it. that 1/10 are mostly bad players that can be easily picked off when they chase far from their group. if you cant kill them simply use a 180 degree Streak to stun and before they break and turn you are 2-3 streaks away from them and they cant gap close anymore.
on the other hand any direct damage can break Cloak. there are skill dedicated to breaking it, if only one player actively use flare you are done for. when I use potion 9/10 blades that I'm chasing die and that's a huge counter. Now you say running detect pot is a sacrifice for you, I can say the same for running gap closer. I have to give up one skill to only counter one class? thats a bigger sacrifice than changing your pot for 40seconds if you ask me.
But the biggest difference is if one person runs gap closer then there is one that you have to worry about but if one person has active detect pot or any kind of detection or has any possible way to reveal you, they can break your Cloak for everyone.
You can still counter Streak users with movement speed though. You can easily test this in game btw sprinting towards a Streak user with decent movement speed. He won't be able to get away unless he already has distance advantage.
I agree that detect potion is an amazing counter, but it was just recently buffed and is the only reliable counter for NB. Other counters are not reliable due to location desync.
Also, I don't know why you think I only have to worry about 1 gap closer. There are ranged users that I also have to worry about. It's not like Streak is going to magically make me immune to ranged users lol. But I can 100% say that unless someone pulls you out of cloak, you're going to be safe from everybody while in Cloak.
Did I mention Ball of Lightning got nerfed because it was absorbing all projectiles and was deemed too OP, but Cloak making you immune to all projectiles is not?
Edited by StaticWave on July 18, 2023 6:25AMPlatform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc2 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »JerBearESO wrote: »Shepoffire wrote: »DrNukenstein wrote: »Ramping cost needs to be paired with the first second being unbreakable, in addition there's an argument for making it possible to roll or sprint while cloaked if a ramping cost gets introduced.
Most arguments against a ramping cost are tied to how easy it is to break cloak. Most arguments for a ramping cost ignore that almost anything other than self only buffs (not heals, except rally and sated frenzy) and walking will take you out of cloak.
This. I'm all for the ramping costm as long as it last 5 seconds and it cant be broken or grants snare/ immobilization immunity
This actually becomes perfectly balanced IF we add in two conditions.
1. Create an area on stealth wherein if you leave it you unstealth early.
2. Taking direct damage flashes some kind of untargetable indicator of the users position
You guys can't be serious. Lasts five second and can't be broken ??? yeah, alright maybe if the cost increase is 500% and the penalty lasts for 8 seconds otherwise, you'd never see the effects of a ramp up cost and you would get a better cloak. Never mind you guys also want it to give snare immunity aswell. Absolutely ridiculous.
This is my last comment on this thread, [snip]
Yea I'm about to be done here too lmao. Ball of Lightning getting gutted is okay but god forbid anyone touches Cloak. I also play cloak NB and I don't have the same issue they're having
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 18, 2023 1:10PMPlatform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc1 -
ebix_✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »
You can still counter Streak users with movement speed though. You can easily test this in game btw sprinting towards a Streak user with decent movement speed. He won't be able to get away unless he already has distance advantage.
I agree that detect potion is an amazing counter, but it was just recently buffed and is the only reliable counter for NB. Other counters are not reliable due to location desync.
Also, I don't know why you think I only have to worry about 1 gap closer. There are ranged users that I also have to worry about. It's not like Streak is going to magically make me immune to ranged users lol. But I can 100% say that unless someone pulls you out of cloak, you're going to be safe from everybody while in Cloak.
Did I mention Ball of Lightning got nerfed because it was absorbing all projectiles and was deemed too OP, but Cloak making you immune to all projectiles is not?
No, If a sorc is dedicated to run you wont be able to catch it. you might be able to reach them for a second if they are not Streaking anymore but as soon as they Streak again you are behind. Mag sorc does it effortlessly (personal experience) and even possible on StamSorc with good resource management.
Tbh I barely use detect pots and usually for ranged gankers, I have never had any issue detecting Melee blades ever since they buffed CamoHunter.
And also no, If you break Someone's Cloak before projectile reaches they will get hit, and also Streak happens to be the best way to do this.
Problem here is there is alot of but and if... Cloak useless if detect potion is running, Streak useless if against ranged, Cloak can waste resource if breaks, Streak not effective if against people with gap closer and so on...
You can put them both in same category but these are two different skills with two different functions. One stun cannot be blocked another cannot be dodged and one cannot be blocked or dodged, all stuns with different strengths and weaknesses.
Where one shines the other lack.
And I know you probably heard this before, But there is enough ways to counter Cloak especially on a Sorc. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 18, 2023 1:11PM3 -
ShadowProc✭✭✭✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Alchimiste1 wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Nerfing the Templar bubble was probably the worst decision by zos in pvp last year. The cloak nerf exactly sounds like that
Nerfing streak, BOL and warden shimmering shield all fall in the same category
Nerf stupid proc sets and not skills which require button presses.
There is no point talking about any class skills tbh because they aren’t even the main source of damage or defense on any class
Did you get hacked ? This doesn’t sound like you
What part doesn’t sound like me?
NB is still the strongest class in the game since beginning of time lol and Nb mains don’t acknowledge it or know how to play their class
Now what I don’t agree is zos nerfing BOL or streak when bow proc hits so hard. Or zos not reducing cost of streak when cloak does not have ramping cost.
If you nerf nb skills we have 2 useless classes sorc and nb. What good does that do for anyone ?
I have always maintained strong classes are good for the game as long as they are class skills requiring actual button presses rather than the afk sorc we have today.
I assure you nb will be fine with a ramp up cost on cloak. Nb has access to more survival tools outside of cloak than sorc does outside of streak
It will probably start with cloak and the forums will move to the next strong skill of the NB maybe bow proc or burst heal. This is never ending if you ask me.
It played out exactly the same way with sorc and still hasn't ended (ZOS is still at it nerfing destro staff which only affects sorc)
Apart from you and maybe a few others how many NB's really know how to use cloak and shade ?
Why hurt 1-5% PVP'ers who actually know how to play this game ?
I'm telling you it will only make a difference if you are spamming cloak, but if you are doing that then you deserve to be punished (in gameplay sense) for it. But at the very least there should be some downsides considering the buff that nb is getting on pts. I hope I don't see you posting any nb needs nerf/to be toned down comments if the cloak changes through next patch.
If it doesn't matter why do it? And if 95% will feel it, your okay with losing more players? Your worried about the 1 to 5%? Okay.1 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »
You can still counter Streak users with movement speed though. You can easily test this in game btw sprinting towards a Streak user with decent movement speed. He won't be able to get away unless he already has distance advantage.
I agree that detect potion is an amazing counter, but it was just recently buffed and is the only reliable counter for NB. Other counters are not reliable due to location desync.
Also, I don't know why you think I only have to worry about 1 gap closer. There are ranged users that I also have to worry about. It's not like Streak is going to magically make me immune to ranged users lol. But I can 100% say that unless someone pulls you out of cloak, you're going to be safe from everybody while in Cloak.
Did I mention Ball of Lightning got nerfed because it was absorbing all projectiles and was deemed too OP, but Cloak making you immune to all projectiles is not?
No, If a sorc is dedicated to run you wont be able to catch it. you might be able to reach them for a second if they are not Streaking anymore but as soon as they Streak again you are behind. Mag sorc does it effortlessly (personal experience) and even possible on StamSorc with good resource management.
Tbh I barely use detect pots and usually for ranged gankers, I have never had any issue detecting Melee blades ever since they buffed CamoHunter.
And also no, If you break Someone's Cloak before projectile reaches they will get hit, and also Streak happens to be the best way to do this.
Problem here is there is alot of but and if... Cloak useless if detect potion is running, Streak useless if against ranged, Cloak can waste resource if breaks, Streak not effective if against people with gap closer and so on...
You can put them both in same category but these are two different skills with two different functions. One stun cannot be blocked another cannot be dodged and one cannot be blocked or dodged, all stuns with different strengths and weaknesses.
Where one shines the other lack.
And I know you probably heard this before, But there is enough ways to counter Cloak especially on a Sorc. [snip]
A sorc dedicated to run is not a threat to you. Any NB can be a threat without having to invest in it.
Again, bold of you to assume I don't run the counters necessary for NB. I run everything needed to counter most classes in my build, including slotting detect potions and Camo Hunter when neeed. Don't try to derail this topic into a "l2p issue" when the majority of the counters are not effective for Cloak.
[snip] I play my NB just fine even if Cloak gets countered, but when it isn't there's nothing stopping me. [snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 18, 2023 1:12PMPlatform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc2 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Defending Cloak is a dead giveaway that you're crutching on the ability. Top tier NBs do just fine without Cloak and will see how over tuned it is as a defensive skill. I and several top tier NBs on this forum can 1vX on NB without needing Cloak, so slotting it next patch will just make us even harder to kill.
If Cloak doesn't get the nerf it deserve, then I want Streak to have no ramping cost. It's only fair if it is that way.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc2 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭No, If a sorc is dedicated to run you wont be able to catch it.
This is not specifically correct. I've been on a fairly dedicated run build on sorc and if your pursuers are setup for the chase / know the environment, you won't get away without reaching a point they can't cross. Movement speed is jus that good at the moment. The only way they won't catch you is if you start and continue to streak away as soon as they render on your screen.
That being said, yeah the average player that isn't built to chase, doesn't know the terrain, doesn't break free fast, etc will possibly not be able to catch you.Mag sorc does it effortlessly (personal experience) and even possible on StamSorc with good resource management.
Again I'll say if you streak away the second someone comes at you and they don't have speed or a gap closer or you LOS then you will probably get away. But someone with movement speed will eventually catch up to you if they really want to. For my reference I'll say that I'm speaking of experience in IC where more players tend to build into speed to either better get away or run you down with a group. The only time I was able to not be caught by the worst of them was when running wild hunt with two swift and even then I had to be a bit careful.
Problem here is there is alot of but and if... Cloak useless if detect potion is running, Streak useless if against ranged, Cloak can waste resource if breaks, Streak not effective if against people with gap closer and so on...
You can put them both in same category but these are two different skills with two different functions. One stun cannot be blocked another cannot be dodged and one cannot be blocked or dodged, all stuns with different strengths and weaknesses.
Where one shines the other lack.
Ok so to some degree you are correct in that they shouldn't be exactly directly compared. What we are talking about is when they are SPAMMED. Let's jus take it from there.
If I back to back streak I'm just getting distance from the opponent and basically being evasive. Can't back to back stun them (immunity) and the damage is not even really noticeable back to back if you tried. So back to back streaks are mainly evasion.
Back to back cloaks are similar, you're not getting any more hidden, you're just hiding again and again so more towards evasion.
Now again I'm looking at back to back use. In either case if you space it out then so be it, no penalty and fair play
I'm just trying to clarify for the sake of the thread that we're not talking about normal use of a skill here, we're specifically talking about being able to spam said skills and why it's worth having safeguards on both of these skills when being able to spam them leads to possibly overperforming evasion ability.
1 -
ebix_✭✭✭✭Bushido2513 wrote: »
Now again I'm looking at back to back use. In either case if you space it out then so be it, no penalty and fair play
I'm just trying to clarify for the sake of the thread that we're not talking about normal use of a skill here, we're specifically talking about being able to spam said skills and why it's worth having safeguards on both of these skills when being able to spam them leads to possibly overperforming evasion ability.
Great, use CamoHunter and they cant spam it anymore, use potion and watch them effortlessly spam it. When we have an skill that can disable Streak we can talk about pushing Cloak through Streak's balance route. Until then learn how to reveal blades and you will get rewarded for it by blocking their "Overperforming Evasion Ability" for 4 seconds.
Edited by ebix_ on July 18, 2023 12:41PM4 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bushido2513 wrote: »
Now again I'm looking at back to back use. In either case if you space it out then so be it, no penalty and fair play
I'm just trying to clarify for the sake of the thread that we're not talking about normal use of a skill here, we're specifically talking about being able to spam said skills and why it's worth having safeguards on both of these skills when being able to spam them leads to possibly overperforming evasion ability.
Great, use CamoHunter and they cant spam it anymore, use potion and watch them effortlessly spam it. When we have an skill that can disable Streak we can talk about pushing Cloak through Streak's balance route. Until then learn how to reveal blades and you will get rewarded for it by blocking their "Overperforming Evasion Ability" for 4 seconds.
Everybody knows Camo Hunter can reveal NBs. People are also telling you that Camo Hunter doesn’t work as well in countering Cloak.
Telling people to “learn” something when they already know it is condescending. What makes you think they don’t know how to do that already? Instead of derailing the topic why don’t we start focusing on the problem raised at hand.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc4 -
ebix_✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »
Now again I'm looking at back to back use. In either case if you space it out then so be it, no penalty and fair play
I'm just trying to clarify for the sake of the thread that we're not talking about normal use of a skill here, we're specifically talking about being able to spam said skills and why it's worth having safeguards on both of these skills when being able to spam them leads to possibly overperforming evasion ability.
Great, use CamoHunter and they cant spam it anymore, use potion and watch them effortlessly spam it. When we have an skill that can disable Streak we can talk about pushing Cloak through Streak's balance route. Until then learn how to reveal blades and you will get rewarded for it by blocking their "Overperforming Evasion Ability" for 4 seconds.
Everybody knows Camo Hunter can reveal NBs. People are also telling you that Camo Hunter doesn’t work as well in countering Cloak.
Telling people to “learn” something when they already know it is condescending. What makes you think they don’t know how to do that already? Instead of derailing the topic why don’t we start focusing on the problem raised at hand.
Did you miss the part that I said I've been using CamoHunter without any problem to reveal blades?
also said the only problem is the cost, otherwise never had a problem with it. or do you want a free Get F'ed Cloak skill with 100% success rate with no effort? We are paying 4k Mag for each cast you know?StaticWave wrote: »Defending Cloak is a dead giveaway that you're crutching on the ability. Top tier NBs do just fine without Cloak and will see how over tuned it is as a defensive skill. I and several top tier NBs on this forum can 1vX on NB without needing Cloak, so slotting it next patch will just make us even harder to kill.
If Cloak doesn't get the nerf it deserve, then I want Streak to have no ramping cost. It's only fair if it is that way.
The first thing I learned on blade was that crutching on Cloak gets you killed. All I've been saying was that Cloak and Streak are two different abilities with different functions and different counters.
My sincere apology to you and All top tier 1vXing NBs in this forum if I find Cloak easy to counter.Edited by ebix_ on July 18, 2023 1:24PM5 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hmmm, lets see what NBs think of these changes/buffs for sorc since cloak is apparently too sacred to be balanced, so instead we should be buffing sorc to NB standards instead of balancing NB.
Active abilities:Bolt Escape:Passives:
ramping cost has been removed. This ability now grants major prophecy/savagery when slotted on either bar. Base cost increased by 300.
Streak:
Ramping cost has been removed. This ability now grants major prophecy/savagery when slotted on either bar. Base cost increased by 300
Ball of Lightning:
Ramping cost has been removed. This ability now blocks all targeted projectiles and also prevents being targeted by enemies abilities that require a target to cast for 4 seconds. Base cost increased by 300.
Matriarch:
This morph is now no longer treated as a permanent pet that requires summoning. Instead when this ability is cast, it surrounds the caster or an ally in front of them with a twilight matriarch that heals the caster or an ally in front of them for X health and grants minor mending for 8 seconds. (Heal tooltip is on par with healthy offerings heal, ability is also now an instant cast ability).
Bound Armaments:
Each dagger now also grants 70 weapon/spell damage and increases maximum stamina by 8% when slotted on either bar. Base damage of each dagger also increased by 50%.
Crystal Weapon:
This ability is now an instant cast ability instead of a proc on light/heavy attacks. When you leave sprint, finish the teleport from streak or cast this ability while under the effects of major expedition, increases damage done by 10% for 10 seconds. This ability also grants minor expedition while slotted.
Encase:
This ability is now a ground based HoT. It now heals allies within its AoE every second, granting them Major expedition, minor endurance and minor intellect. increasing speed by 30% and stamina and magicka recovery by 15%.
Atronachs Burst:
This morph reworked, it now deals X damage around the caster instantly instead of attacking the nearest enemy. No longer has a duration. Stuns all enemies in its AoE and creates a static link between those enemies and the caster that grants the caster major berserk. provides a synergy that an ally can activate to deal X damage, granting major berserk to that ally for 10 seconds.
Crit surge:
This ability no longer requires you to deal critical damage, instead all light attacks now restore X health and Y stamina (or magicka depending on morph), with an additional Z stamina or magicka restored at the end of the duration depending on how long the skill was active for. Cost was also significantly reduced by 75%.
Liquid lightning:
This ability is no longer a DoT, instead it deals shock damage in an AoE granting major sorcery/brutality (increase weapon/spell damage by 20%) and minor courage (increase weapon/spell damage by 215) for 30 seconds and inflicts minor cowardice on enemies hit for 10 seconds (reducing their weapon/spell damage by 215).Capacitor:
removed this passive, replaced with passive that increases critical rating for each storm calling ability slotted.
Daedric protection:
This passive now increases all 3 recoveries by 20% instead of only stamina and health for having a daedric summoning ability slotted.
Exploitation:
This passive now also increases critical damage done by 5%.
To any NB out there that thinks the above buffs to sorcerer would be overpowered, go read the following NB abilities as these changes were simply taking the following NB abilities and replacing their sorcerer counterparts with those NB abilities and passives:- Cloak (streak is the offensive aspect of cloak that grants a stun + additional damage + ability to kite, BoL is the defensive aspect of cloak providing damage mitigation and targeting prevention as well as the ability to kite).All of these changes and reworks to sorcs abilities are literally just matching the power level and buffs/secondary effects of NB abilities. If NB is truly such a weak class and sorc is such a strong OP class as so many NB love to falsely claim, then they should have no arguments against any of these proposed changes or reworks to sorc abilities to better bring them inline with NB abilities.
- Healthy Offering (matriarch is replaced by this reliable heal that has no downside)
- Merciless Resolve (BA was simply buffed to match this abilities standards)
- Concealed weapon (changed crystal weapon to match this ability)
- Refreshing Path (replaced the completely unusable encase ability with this)
- Soul Tether (replaced 1 morph of atro with this ability for an AoE burst ultimate)
- Siphoning Strikes (replaced crit surge with this)
- Power Extraction (replaced 1 morph of liquid lightning with this)
- Pressure Points (replaced capacitor passive with this since it has been added into daedric protection
- Refreshing shadows (made daedric protection into this, but with slightly higher bonus for requiring an ability slotted)
- Hemmorhage (buffed exploitation passive to match this passive).8 -
infunite✭✭✭Bushido2513 wrote: »No, If a sorc is dedicated to run you wont be able to catch it.
This is not specifically correct. I've been on a fairly dedicated run build on sorc and if your pursuers are setup for the chase / know the environment, you won't get away without reaching a point they can't cross. Movement speed is jus that good at the moment. The only way they won't catch you is if you start and continue to streak away as soon as they render on your screen.
That being said, yeah the average player that isn't built to chase, doesn't know the terrain, doesn't break free fast, etc will possibly not be able to catch you.Mag sorc does it effortlessly (personal experience) and even possible on StamSorc with good resource management.
Again I'll say if you streak away the second someone comes at you and they don't have speed or a gap closer or you LOS then you will probably get away. But someone with movement speed will eventually catch up to you if they really want to. For my reference I'll say that I'm speaking of experience in IC where more players tend to build into speed to either better get away or run you down with a group. The only time I was able to not be caught by the worst of them was when running wild hunt with two swift and even then I had to be a bit careful.
Problem here is there is alot of but and if... Cloak useless if detect potion is running, Streak useless if against ranged, Cloak can waste resource if breaks, Streak not effective if against people with gap closer and so on...
You can put them both in same category but these are two different skills with two different functions. One stun cannot be blocked another cannot be dodged and one cannot be blocked or dodged, all stuns with different strengths and weaknesses.
Where one shines the other lack.
Ok so to some degree you are correct in that they shouldn't be exactly directly compared. What we are talking about is when they are SPAMMED. Let's jus take it from there.
If I back to back streak I'm just getting distance from the opponent and basically being evasive. Can't back to back stun them (immunity) and the damage is not even really noticeable back to back if you tried. So back to back streaks are mainly evasion.
Back to back cloaks are similar, you're not getting any more hidden, you're just hiding again and again so more towards evasion.
Now again I'm looking at back to back use. In either case if you space it out then so be it, no penalty and fair play
I'm just trying to clarify for the sake of the thread that we're not talking about normal use of a skill here, we're specifically talking about being able to spam said skills and why it's worth having safeguards on both of these skills when being able to spam them leads to possibly overperforming evasion ability.
If you're spamming streak to get away from an enemy, you're disengaging from the fight entirely. The opponent can use this time to chase if they are obsessed will getting the killing blow, or they can take this time to recoup their resources, find LOS if the sorc turns around to toss some ranged damage.
If a blade is spamming cloak, they get an auto crit when coming out of it (getting revealed counts as leaving cloak, granting the auto crit and also the vamp passive granting 300 weapon spell damage). So even if a person uses the wildly expensive stamina costing camo hunter (because of it's low range and positional desync sometimes you have to waste stamina casting it multiple times), the person trying to reveal the nightblade gets punished by literally buffing the nightblade's next attacks. Additionally, if running concealed weapon, leaving cloak grants an ADDITIONAL 10% damage increase, again whether the nightblade leaves cloak themselves or if they are revealed.
A sorc can use streak to run away from a fight. Even if they turn around and start attacking again after gaining some distance, a sorc's long range attacks (inferno light attack, crushing shock, crystal fragments) are incredibly telegraphed, coupled with travel time for the attack, and also dodgeable.
A nightblade can use cloak to also run away from a fight. But a nightblade can disappear from sight and keep fighting, popping up in wildly different places due to easy to attain movement speed (nightblades even get major and minor expedition in their class kit), and also positional desync, gaining powerful damage increases for coming out of stealth. Then they can just pop back into stealth and rinse and repeat. Without a ramping cost on cloak, they can continue this whack-a-mole behavior indefinitely. While in stealth/sneak they can wait a few seconds to let their mag get back up to use the next cloak, they can accumulate ult to cast a low costing incap. My point here is that cloak provides FAR more utility than a sorc's streak does.
Now next patch, nightblades will get free major crit for just having cloak slotted...on either bar...not even having to click the button...? How can anyone being even remotely unbiased possibly think that cloak is not overloaded? It's hard for me to imagine even those that are biased towards cloak thinking that it's current power, and upcoming power, is valid.
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StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »
Now again I'm looking at back to back use. In either case if you space it out then so be it, no penalty and fair play
I'm just trying to clarify for the sake of the thread that we're not talking about normal use of a skill here, we're specifically talking about being able to spam said skills and why it's worth having safeguards on both of these skills when being able to spam them leads to possibly overperforming evasion ability.
Great, use CamoHunter and they cant spam it anymore, use potion and watch them effortlessly spam it. When we have an skill that can disable Streak we can talk about pushing Cloak through Streak's balance route. Until then learn how to reveal blades and you will get rewarded for it by blocking their "Overperforming Evasion Ability" for 4 seconds.
Everybody knows Camo Hunter can reveal NBs. People are also telling you that Camo Hunter doesn’t work as well in countering Cloak.
Telling people to “learn” something when they already know it is condescending. What makes you think they don’t know how to do that already? Instead of derailing the topic why don’t we start focusing on the problem raised at hand.
Did you miss the part that I said I've been using CamoHunter without any problem to reveal blades?
also said the only problem is the cost, otherwise never had a problem with it. or do you want a free Get F'ed Cloak skill with 100% success rate with no effort? We are paying 4k Mag for each cast you know?StaticWave wrote: »Defending Cloak is a dead giveaway that you're crutching on the ability. Top tier NBs do just fine without Cloak and will see how over tuned it is as a defensive skill. I and several top tier NBs on this forum can 1vX on NB without needing Cloak, so slotting it next patch will just make us even harder to kill.
If Cloak doesn't get the nerf it deserve, then I want Streak to have no ramping cost. It's only fair if it is that way.
The first thing I learned on blade was that crutching on Cloak gets you killed. All I've been saying was that Cloak and Streak are two different abilities with different functions and different counters.
My sincere apology to you and All top tier 1vXing NBs in this forum if I find Cloak easy to counter.
NBs on PC NA are fast while in Cloak, so Camo Hunter doesn’t even work most of the time. I can’t count how many times I pop Camo Hunter just a few meters from the NB and still don’t remove them stealth.
As I’ve said multiple times, there’s a thing called location desync, so the 8m range is not enough to pull fast NBs out of cloak.
The only thing reliable right now is detect potion after it received the 43m range buff. But I’m also wasting a whole 45s potion just for 15s of detection. If the NB simply just fights back until time expires, they don’t have to worry about being detected for another 30s.
Compare that to Streak which can be passively countered by stacking movement speed (which is laughably easy to get), I don’t see why Cloak shouldn’t get a ramping cost. At the very least, increase the range of Camo Hunter to 12m and Evil Hunter to 15m to justify the cost of using it.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc4 -
ebix_✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »
Now again I'm looking at back to back use. In either case if you space it out then so be it, no penalty and fair play
I'm just trying to clarify for the sake of the thread that we're not talking about normal use of a skill here, we're specifically talking about being able to spam said skills and why it's worth having safeguards on both of these skills when being able to spam them leads to possibly overperforming evasion ability.
Great, use CamoHunter and they cant spam it anymore, use potion and watch them effortlessly spam it. When we have an skill that can disable Streak we can talk about pushing Cloak through Streak's balance route. Until then learn how to reveal blades and you will get rewarded for it by blocking their "Overperforming Evasion Ability" for 4 seconds.
Everybody knows Camo Hunter can reveal NBs. People are also telling you that Camo Hunter doesn’t work as well in countering Cloak.
Telling people to “learn” something when they already know it is condescending. What makes you think they don’t know how to do that already? Instead of derailing the topic why don’t we start focusing on the problem raised at hand.
Did you miss the part that I said I've been using CamoHunter without any problem to reveal blades?
also said the only problem is the cost, otherwise never had a problem with it. or do you want a free Get F'ed Cloak skill with 100% success rate with no effort? We are paying 4k Mag for each cast you know?StaticWave wrote: »Defending Cloak is a dead giveaway that you're crutching on the ability. Top tier NBs do just fine without Cloak and will see how over tuned it is as a defensive skill. I and several top tier NBs on this forum can 1vX on NB without needing Cloak, so slotting it next patch will just make us even harder to kill.
If Cloak doesn't get the nerf it deserve, then I want Streak to have no ramping cost. It's only fair if it is that way.
The first thing I learned on blade was that crutching on Cloak gets you killed. All I've been saying was that Cloak and Streak are two different abilities with different functions and different counters.
My sincere apology to you and All top tier 1vXing NBs in this forum if I find Cloak easy to counter.
NBs on PC NA are fast while in Cloak, so Camo Hunter doesn’t even work most of the time. I can’t count how many times I pop Camo Hunter just a few meters from the NB and still don’t remove them stealth.
As I’ve said multiple times, there’s a thing called location desync, so the 8m range is not enough to pull fast NBs out of cloak.
The only thing reliable right now is detect potion after it received the 43m range buff. But I’m also wasting a whole 45s potion just for 15s of detection. If the NB simply just fights back until time expires, they don’t have to worry about being detected for another 30s.
Compare that to Streak which can be passively countered by stacking movement speed (which is laughably easy to get), I don’t see why Cloak shouldn’t get a ramping cost. At the very least, increase the range of Camo Hunter to 12m and Evil Hunter to 15m to justify the cost of using it.
I Dont wanna be "condescending" and all but I wanna explain it for those who dont know. Well here is how I use CamoHunter, when I see a NB gonna use Cloak (usually when they are under pressure) I cast CamoHunter and stay close to them and its easy since "movement speed is laughably easy to get", that Breaks their Cloak immediately 70% of the time. if that blade is any good will notice that and wont use Cloak but either way I get to keep the pressure up. now lets say 30% they get away, since they cant sprint in Cloak its a huge adventage for you, read their movement correctly you can easily catch them and break their Cloak.
it should not be hard to read a NBs movement at least if you have mind of a "Top tier Nightblade".4 -
ShadowProc✭✭✭✭✭JerBearESO wrote: »Maybe if cloaked actually worked rather than constantly breaking I'd maybe give it a thought (I wouldn't) but with how it's working on live, nah
Yeah what's with the amount of times cloak has been broken? They break it within 1 or 2 patches of fixing every time, and now it seems like they given up on fixing it.
Seriously the most bugged ability in the game right now with how many things pull the user out of it that have been confirmed as unintentional. Confirmed by the numerous times those very things were fixed, albeit for a very brief time...each time....StaticWave wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »Shepoffire wrote: »
As much as I would be delighted to. I am on console. Just leaves me wondering if you're so experienced, how do you struggle with fighting cloaking nightblades with the counters provided. All you need is camo hunter it's not that hard
Let me help you out there. He probably struggles as much as you or anyone would if we took the ramping cost off of streak. Just think about that for a second. They both have counters that can be slotted etc but the point is that something that as a skill offers such a strong effect should be limited in its ability to be spammed.
It's just about game balance. Also if cloak became unusable after the change I'd be all for reverting but it should at least be tried.
Yea this. Remember when Streak had no ramping cost and people could chain Streak for days even with gap closers slotted?
Why did Streak get a ramping cost but Cloak didn’t lol? It makes no sense when 2 abilities are similar in function.
I remember when streak had 50% cost increase, mag sorcs used to spam it just like now. yeah it got better for stam sorcs a little but I dont think ramping cost is a good penalty even on streak, I think it should get a reduce travel distance penalty instead.
And again Streak and Cloak are not the same thing. Streak is a teleport ability and Cloak gives invisibility and I gave you multiple examples when I last quoted you.
When you use Streak you teleport 15 meters and stun everything in your way and there is nothing that can make you drop at 6 meters so you get what you pressed for 100% of the time. Streak does what it promises to do, but still if 1 out of 5 runs gap closer you get 4 less players on you. And when you use Cloak, things can break it instanlty either randomly or intentionally, so basically you can waste your resource and dont get what you pressed for.StaticWave wrote: »Shepoffire wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Shepoffire wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Shadowy Disguise is not any close to mechanic of streak and mist form. Besides game give you many ways to counter it. Its like adding ramping cost to any other skill, that you dont like such as Elemental Susceptibility (still 0 cost lol), Vigor etc.
And only 1 of them is actually reliable enough to be used, which is Detect Potions, which just recently got buffed. Even then, you are wasting 45s of better potions like Tripots or Armor pots, or an entire skill slot that has no use out side of countering 1 class that so happens to be obnoxiously common in Cyrodiil PvP
Meanwhile, Streak and Mist Form are easily countered by slotting a gap closer, which also has multiple uses outside of countering Streak and Mist users (for example, Rushing Agony with Stampede is widely used to bomb zergs). Heck, even sprinting is sufficient to counter a Streak/Mist user. I mean just look at this video where I chased down a magsorc with just sprinting.https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
Not true. You are not wasting 45 seconds. The new buff to pots is awful. If you can't kill the nb when you reveal them then that's on bad players.
Asking for yet another nerf to cloak is absurd.
Most nbs hiding in stealth and using cloak are squishy like glass. [snip]
Nobody's saying anything about not being able to kill squishy NBs. Don't use a strawman argument against me dude.
My argument is the counters for Streak/Mist are more effective and require less sacrifice than the counters for Cloak. Movement speed is abundant and easy to get without sacrificing a lot, and gap closer is useful for all scenarios, not just against Streak. Meanwhile, a detect potion is only useful against NB, and I have to sacrifice Major Prophecy because I'm getting it from pots. Camo Hunter/Inner Light is only useful against NB and don't even work most of the time. I can use a gap closer to chase someone down, or use it with Rushing Agony or other sets to deal extra damage. I can't do that with Camo Hunter/Inner Light.
Cloak needs a ramping cost, and it's long overdue. If you can't play a NB without Cloak, then I could say it's something you need to improve on.
[edited to remove quote]
Straw man argument? I haven't heard a single reason yet that justifies what you all are asking for. I might be wrong but don't you post different daily nerf posts?
If your saying you have no trouble killing nbs then why are you asking for a nerf? Survive the opening. Pop a detect pot, mage light, camo hunter, or any or the other nerfs in game. How exactly is the nb getting away? Especially if it's a detect pot? You can literally see them anywhere. Streak towards/through them and they dead.
Straw man argument? You mean like saying you shouldn't have to use the most powerful counter because you have to wait 45 seconds to use another? Like seriously. That's as strawman as it gets.
You straw manned me by saying it's a L2P issue to kill squishy NBs. Did I ever say anything about having difficulty killing squishy NBs?
The argument is about Cloak. You don't need to be a squishy NB to use Cloak. I can be in 30k resistance with 3.4k crit resist and still be able to use Cloak. Now I'm much harder to kill, and I can also disappear when I want. That's what many brawlerblades will be doing next patch with Cloak buff.
I'm sorry, but people like you add to the problem. Using strawman arguments to make yours appear more credible is a shameful tactic to try shutting down a legitimate balance request.
This is laughable. You post daily nerf threads. I have seen one of them be close to reasonable. There is one person spamming for nerfs daily. And it's not me.
I made a thread about Relequen being broken and it got a bunch of backlash. Guess what? Now everyone is realizing it's broken.
Most of my threads are legitimate complaints. I am also open to discussion, but people just don't want to discuss.
Agree to disagree. As do most others to your posts. They are centered around all classes but your own. Hence the large amount of feedback you get to l2p. Sorry man, but it is what it is. You are entitled to your opinions but if you post that amount expect not to be taken seriously. [snip]
Clearly Zos feels its underperforming, which I disagree with, and is buffing it. Which is too bad as I feel it's fine the way it is.
The compromise should be to cancel the buff and leave it alone.
Or maybe, just maybe, the vast majority of the forums are casual players and don’t experience the same thing I do?
It’s pretty bold to claim I have a l2p issue when I could probably out-experience the vast majority of them in a fight, not being toxic here.
Please step foot in Stormhaven or BG and fight the players I’m fighting. [snip]
[snip]
Because I am lol. Not the best, but very experienced in my class and experienced enough to talk about PvP. Idc if you think otherwise, there are plenty of people on the forums who can confirm that.
If you or anyone doubt, I’m always dueling in Stormhaven on PC NA and would love a challenge. I also do BGs so queue up too while you’re at it.
As much as I would be delighted to. I am on console. Just leaves me wondering if you're so experienced, how do you struggle with fighting cloaking nightblades with the counters provided. All you need is camo hunter it's not that hard
Streak counters are much more reliable. You see someone streak, you hit gap close and be right up on their butt.
I dont agree with this at all !!
1 out of 10 players might run gap closer these days, and because gap closers are generally bad and heavily punishable due to the animation lock I dont see good players run it. that 1/10 are mostly bad players that can be easily picked off when they chase far from their group. if you cant kill them simply use a 180 degree Streak to stun and before they break and turn you are 2-3 streaks away from them and they cant gap close anymore.
on the other hand any direct damage can break Cloak. there are skill dedicated to breaking it, if only one player actively use flare you are done for. when I use potion 9/10 blades that I'm chasing die and that's a huge counter. Now you say running detect pot is a sacrifice for you, I can say the same for running gap closer. I have to give up one skill to only counter one class? thats a bigger sacrifice than changing your pot for 40seconds if you ask me.
But the biggest difference is if one person runs gap closer then there is one that you have to worry about but if one person has active detect pot or any kind of detection or has any possible way to reveal you, they can break your Cloak for everyone.
[edited to remove quote]
Great explanation. I would add not a skill slot but also a loss of another of stam. Especially if you chase them. Which can quickly turn if good sorcs time it right and turn and burn when you low on stam and then turn again.
I would much rather pop a pot that reduces the range of streak then in lets say half since a pot counters for such a large range.
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