5 Skills + Ultimate is not enough

Shaun98ca2

I can tell you why the set up is 5+1 and it makes a LOT of sense.
1-5 fits PERFECTLY on the keyboard for your left hand. The COULD have went to 6 but its a little for and hard for SOME people maybe not YOU but some people to hit the 6 key and keep moving at the same time.

Personally I find it hard to it the 5 key IF they hotbar went to 6 I probably wouldn't be playing as its too hard for me to be any good at the game at that point.

1-5 on the keyboard is PERFECT for the left hand to stay on the wasd and still use your abilities.

5+1 has nothing to do with consoles. Ok lets say it does FINE your right in all your infinite wisdom. I say to you don't like very sorry you weren't in mind when devs made the game and you should look elsewhere. I hear archage coming out has good pvp. Swtor has an amazing story.

MasterSpatula

I would be totally happy with it if it just had an extra dedicated slot for Soul Trap.

Shaun98ca2

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I would be totally happy with it if it just had an extra dedicated slot for Soul Trap.

Have you thought about changing your build specifically for "soul hunting"?
Get your gems set your build and soul hunt then when your done change your spec back to the way you like it.
Soul Trap doesn't NEED to be in a build unless your "soul hunting"

Mercutio_Montague

jazzinspace wrote: »

I do not want a screen full of spells. I am asking for 8 per weapon not 50....

Yeah you have to think about what skills you go into battle with but then that just becomes rock paper scissors with pvp and you are left with little room for flexibility.


I have just made a bunch of builds on http://esobuild.com.

1 for pve.
1 for pvp.
1 for dungeons.

would be nice to quickly select between them in a 'sets' or 'templates' style interface rather than have to go into the skills tab and assign each of them every time.

Mate have you heard the story of champions online. if you haven't let me tell you. originally you had 8 slots to choose from. you could choose any skill just like here. Then people like you screamed and shouted "give me more skills!!"

The devs said sure have 8 more. Wanna know what happened.

Everyone became a tank/dps/healer and they were OP at every single one. It got to a point where if you weren't a certain OP build you were dead in 1 secs b ut if you were you could last 15mins with solid dps on you. Now champions online is dead. R.I.P.

Currently at the moment players have to think very carefully about their build and in truth can only forfill certain roles. This is called tatics. A couple of your claims are ignorant/laughable

1. The Devs couldn't balance the game. Please feel free to get a job at a game company, Create a game with 300+ skills which anyone can choose from and balance it. if you can do that you'll be a very very rich man. So don't come on here and "try" and sound smart.

2. the game feels dumbed down. erm wow. it actually takes more thought to fit an OP build into 10 slots than it does with 16. your not really thinking about the bigger picture. your just thinking about having options. Truly if you wanted to be the healer with all options use all you 10 slots for the same weapon and healing and CC spells. Let's see. you need 1 hard heal. 2 smalls. good dots. damage reduction and heal. that's 5. CC. Buff. good attack, Buff and good AOE heal.
Done that's 10. what's the problem.

3.I agree they should include templates so you can swap your builds on the fly when out of combat or with some restrictions in place that are not heavy but make sense to prevent exploitation purely. Infact i'd imagine that they are working on this atm. However if you allow people change templates on the fly in effect your giving them 20+ moves to play with at any given time. This will break the game. However if you make it so that they have to go to a point where they can change players will cry foul and say it's inconivent. So how they pull this off will be interesting to see. However i'm sure they can.

Chomag

LadyChaos wrote: »

Chomag wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Chomag wrote: »

The skillset is like this in order to cater to console noobs and their *** controllers.

Please explain how this fits perfectly on a controller.

Controllers have several buttons and obviously can't play a game that has a lot of buttons, not like a keyboard player, so the game is dumbed down to cater to the console crowd.

No

ESO was made for PC and migrated to consoles after it was already in Beta.

Yes but ZOS always intended to have the game available for consoles too. The console game market is much larger than the PC market. No video game developer can afford to just ignore consoles, they can however ignore PC game market and many developers actually do anyway.

nate1980

The problem I have with only allowing a total of 10 skills is that it only leaves you the option of 2 builds and there's more than that many builds available to you. For instance, I'm rolling a DK Tank. There's more than two ways to build a tank for PvE and that's not even taking into account PvP. If we could create and save builds that we can switch to with a low cooldown, I'd be able to create tank builds for PvP support, PvP crowd control, PvE multi-mob encounters, and PvE single-target encounters. As things are now, I have to specialize in two things, eschewing all other possibilities.

NewBlacksmurf

The game by design will be almost exactly the same on PC, Xbox One and PS4 therefore you will only have the skills (5) as this works with a controller layout.

Diablo 3 is another good example of a PC game made to share a similar experience of console play.

If you were expecting a PC like MMO, this is not the game for you. At later levels, this becomes more and more non MMO like.

I hope you enjoy change as I really like this style over any of the past MMO's I played. 5 skills requires planning and preparation where as, multiple skill bars don't.

10 Skills, at level 15 this is how many are available/active as the weapon switch is very useful in adding to this bar.

LadyChaos

Chomag wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

Chomag wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Chomag wrote: »

The skillset is like this in order to cater to console noobs and their *** controllers.

Please explain how this fits perfectly on a controller.

Controllers have several buttons and obviously can't play a game that has a lot of buttons, not like a keyboard player, so the game is dumbed down to cater to the console crowd.

No

ESO was made for PC and migrated to consoles after it was already in Beta.

Yes but ZOS always intended to have the game available for consoles too. The console game market is much larger than the PC market. No video game developer can afford to just ignore consoles, they can however ignore PC game market and many developers actually do anyway.

It's a cop-out to blame consoles for this setup... GW2 is extremely similar and successful.. no console version. ESO released on PC... PC players the first beta testers. PC subscriptions are funding the console version later this summer.... Consoles where announced to be added after the game had already Beta tested on PC.. not consoles, because the consoles its made for hadn't even been released yet. SO blame consoles all you guys want, its not the consoles its the "I want everything, and ability to be a god when I play" mentality.

You are supposed to have weaknesses and be able to be ganked if you are by yourself if you chose light Armor and all Deeps. It is a choice that you traded dps or survivability, you cant have them both in strength. You cant have CC AND Heals in strength. you can have a mix, but not as strong as if you picked only 1 role. You don't get to be an impenetrable dps self healing god... you have vulnerabilities, so do I and everyone else out there but you don't know what they are, because there is no cookie cutter anymore.

All the things you are feeling are intended.. it's supposed to make you feel a little uncomfortable that you are not ready for everything that happens at a moments notice... that you chose to be ready for 10 +2 things different than anyone else running around with dodge and block etc.

Drachenfier

LadyChaos wrote: »

Psychic_Kitty wrote:

/snip
DC universe, diablo 3 and Neverwinter have these same limited skill issues currently and its interesting to see how the player base is dwindling on them.
And watching the developers trying to bail the water of their sinking ships is interesting as well, as they all seam clueless. These topics show up a lot on their own forums...but they ignore them, irony at its best.

GW2 still going strong only allows similar amount and you can't even chose the individual ones, only the set. Neverwinter.. nothing to do with that drama is the the hot bar choices, but as irrelevant as the argument of "mommy all my friends MMOs are doing it why can't I?" Same answer, that's them. They have their own flaws and concerns, and their own business model and vision of an MMO.

I think when you compare mechanics to help relate or understand something new better is great, but when you use it to turn an entire franchise into another is not so helpful feedback, IMO of course.

Guild Wars 2 has somewhere in the neighborhood of 19 skills immediately available in combat. You've got 5 for each weapon, five slotted skills, and four or five ( i can't remember ) of the class specific abilites. This doesn't even include all the follow up skills that are opened up by using a weapon ability or slotted ability. By comparison to GW2, ESO is extremely limited.

Mulk

Once you get to 15, you have 12 skills available on the hotbar (5+1 twice), you have heavy and light weapon attacks, you have block, you have interrupt, you have dodge, and you have a quickslot. That's 18. And in any non trash mob fight you'll be using most of those.

silent88b14_ESO

jazzinspace wrote: »

I would just like to put a post in the forums here to express my opinion that even with 2 weapon sets 5 skills + ultimate is not enough for certain classes, healers for example need the diversity of healing and damage/crowd control.

The main issue - It can dumb down the game to a low skill level requirement and I hope in the future they will patch this to allow even just 8 skills per weapon set; I feel that most people these days are not stupid gamers and could easily handle that so why not just balance it properly to allow for that?

I understand that there is no cooldowns on abilities and so it is more about resource management, but that actually just feels limiting; you don't have easy access to your skills and can effectively make you feel like it is a low skilled game and that the developers could not work out how to balance it properly so they just limited the skill set. That is fine to a degree and I do enjoy the tactics in deciding what skills I pick but even if I am speccing for a role I feel that I could use just a few more skills to improve game play decisions.


In Addition
it is laborious to swap out a skill just for a particular scenario if you come across a large group and have only 1on1 skills selected.

Perhaps you could also make quick swap templates for certain weapons - ie. 1 for group 1 for solo pve content?

I'm having some trouble understanding how it could be that requiring the player to be exact and selective to slot specific combinations of skills for a wide variety of situations can be conflated with the rote complaint 'dumbing-down'.

If it is difficult to do well, requires forethought and tactical planning, then how do you imagine it is 'dumbing down'?

LadyChaos

Drachenfier wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

Psychic_Kitty wrote:

/snip
DC universe, diablo 3 and Neverwinter have these same limited skill issues currently and its interesting to see how the player base is dwindling on them.
And watching the developers trying to bail the water of their sinking ships is interesting as well, as they all seam clueless. These topics show up a lot on their own forums...but they ignore them, irony at its best.

GW2 still going strong only allows similar amount and you can't even chose the individual ones, only the set. Neverwinter.. nothing to do with that drama is the the hot bar choices, but as irrelevant as the argument of "mommy all my friends MMOs are doing it why can't I?" Same answer, that's them. They have their own flaws and concerns, and their own business model and vision of an MMO.

I think when you compare mechanics to help relate or understand something new better is great, but when you use it to turn an entire franchise into another is not so helpful feedback, IMO of course.

Guild Wars 2 has somewhere in the neighborhood of 19 skills immediately available in combat. You've got 5 for each weapon, five slotted skills, annd four or five ( i can't remember ) of the class specific abilites. This doesn't even include all the follow up skills that are opened up by using a weapon ability or slotted ability. By comparison to GW2, ESO is extremely limited.

5 skills per weapon x2 weapon bars... just like here and 4 ultimate style that you must unlock as you level. Very similar just like I said. And you don't get to pick the individual weapon slots they are cookie cutter by weapon choice.

So again more choice but 3 less slots... nothing to do with consoles though

Drachenfier

Mulk wrote: »

Once you get to 15, you have 12 skills available on the hotbar (5+1 twice), you have heavy and light weapon attacks, you have block, you have interrupt, you have dodge, and you have a quickslot. That's 18. And in any non trash mob fight you'll be using most of those.

lol...light and heavy attacks are basically auto attacks, block, interrupt and dodge aren't skills or abilities, they're combat mechanics, and Quickslot is a potion bar. That's 12.

For the record, I like the limited skill bars, I just don't think 5 +1 is enough, unless toggled abilities were moved to their own separate slot like the Quickslot. As it stands, toggled abilities, including summons, are killed by weapon swap unless you waste a spot on the second hotbar for that ability as well, further limiting your playstyle.

Mulk

You still have to use them. There are no auto attacks in this game, you stand there stupidly until you swing, either heavy or light. You call them combat mechanics, but they don't happen unless you use them. As I have said before, what the game gives you in the way of tools is plenty.

Drachenfier

They're not slottable skills, they're the basic attacks everyone comes with, so no I do not include them in the "skills and abilities" count. This discussion is about the 5 +1 x2 that's currently available. Not talking about the standard light and heavy attacks that come standard to every character, not talking about dodging or blocking, we're talking about the available hotbars and whether they're sufficient.

Shaun98ca2

Well 5+1 wasnt sufficient the game wouldn't be playable. If it wasn't sufficient you wouldn't be able to kill anything or support anybody.
You can do all of this perfectly fine in the game. Theres no reason to change the game, people need to adapt.

nhisso

Id be satisfied with a weapon hotbar and a spells/abilities hotbar; each with 5 slots. People who say there is some kind of strategy involved in all these MMOs coming out that limit how many skills you can have slotted at a time are full of it. The reality is, and I see this all the time from people, is that too many low brows get over whelmed by too many skills (because I guess they need a game to limit them since they can't do it themselves?) and game companies want to appeal to as many as possible to get that cash, which IS understandable for sure. But some of us like variety.

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO

Here's my 2 cents.

The 5 skill limit is a great thing. It makes you make hard decisions of what skills you're going to use for a fight and makes you swap them out for different scenario's. If any of you have played dnd it's like choosing what spells you have memorized for the day in your spellbook. Choosing the right spells means you're an engine of destruction, choosing poorly means you become a bloody smear on the ground and have earned yourself and early grave.

LadyChaos

nhisso wrote: »

Id be satisfied with a weapon hotbar and a spells/abilities hotbar; each with 5 slots. People who say there is some kind of strategy involved in all these MMOs coming out that limit how many skills you can have slotted at a time are full of it. The reality is, and I see this all the time from people, is that too many low brows get over whelmed by too many skills (because I guess they need a game to limit them since they can't do it themselves?) and game companies want to appeal to as many as possible to get that cash, which IS understandable for sure. But some of us like variety.

The hard part isn't playing with only 12 abilities it's making the choice what trade offs are worth winch

I loved being so good at my class I could handle anything that hit us because I had 12+ hot bars open and knew which spell chain to use for every situation, that was the skill required for that... the hard part..

now the hard part is not being able to solo/handle everything that might come but slotting 12 abilities that fit the current most likely needs and rolling with that choice. It makes what I chose and you and everyone else much different priorities, unlike before we had exactly the same thing, and the same min/max spell chains memorized, and the same gear wish list... that's cookie cutter way of older games.

It made me uncomfortable the first time I tried it in GW2, even more so here until I hit 15... now I have more slots than I exactly need and was able to open up a whole second role.. 1 heal, 1 dps for me. But it is better for all of us who enjoy being different than the same finger wiggler or guy with a sword next to us. Got to get out of the mentality of being a god at everything at any given time....

cliveklgb14_ESO

nate1980 wrote: »

The problem I have with only allowing a total of 10 skills is that it only leaves you the option of 2 builds

Only in combat.

You can modify your build ANY time between fights. There are mods already out that allow you to save builds with equipment. So in a dungeon between fights you can change between fights to many, many different builds.

cliveklgb14_ESO

LadyChaos wrote: »

The hard part isn't playing with only 12 abilities it's making the choice what trade offs are worth winch

And actually it isn't that hard at all. The skills are defined enough, and fit certain situations specifically enough that knowing what to use when isn't that hard.

But the whole point is having to choose.

cliveklgb14_ESO

The whole game can be played from end to end with the current skills.

So saying the current number isn't enough just isn't factual.

It may be your personal preference to have easy mode of every skill all the time, but your personal preference isn't relevant to the game being playable with just the limited number of skills.

mndfreeze

I love the less is better approach they took. It really makes you have to think and change your strategy around on character build and creation and how you play it. Now that said I would like one more button, but not a normal active ability button, maybe another ultimate, or perhaps another button that handles just a buff or heal type effect. Something that doesnt give you yet anoter way to uber damage people ya know, more like a 'utility' ability.

imperial

Imo I like not having vast amounts of spells I can use at will but think one or two more slots would be helpful especially using my templer. However I'm loving the game.

epicmiro

I'd like 6-0 to be used for buffs.. now 5/5 of my skills are buffs...

kelticfuryub17_ESO

romeozor wrote: »

Well it has to work on consoles as well, so that's probably a reason behind the limitations.

Console controllers have what... 16 buttons? This is not a valid reason.

Slyfe

kelticfuryub17_ESO wrote: »

romeozor wrote: »

Well it has to work on consoles as well, so that's probably a reason behind the limitations.

Console controllers have what... 16 buttons? This is not a valid reason.

Yeah look at FFXIV has full controller/console support and alot of skill slots.

Akuza

This game had big hype attached to it. They have many issues that were done wrong. Sending an email to pre orders and accounts letting us know that we need to set account payment is customer service 101. Very disappointing. the only bonus this game has is graphics and storyline which only 15% care about. Maybe they are confused by WoW carebear thinking that people subscribed to that for years so lets give them a not so complicated display to use. maybe i come from old school gaming where if i dont have 20 icons and master my skill in PVP its not a challenge. If your a carebear you will be my Fodder on the pvp field. I just had a vision 3 full armies meet in the middle they are all carebears my team will win quicker !!! Carry on Carebears !!!!!!!!!!!!

jgaston1030ub17_ESO

HEAR HEAR! especially for us mages who have toggle affects taking up 90% of our slots

NextGame

5+1 is making for some very anaemic combat in my opinion. Another couple of skill slots would allow for players to slot support and situational skills rather than simply ignore them altogether.

I'm slightly surprised by comments suggesting that choosing skills etc requires planning, as It doesn't seem as though character skill allocation and progression has been planned out very well at all by ZOS in the first place.