5 Skills + Ultimate is not enough

zenwolfrwb17_ESO

Drachenfier wrote: »

I think one or two more would be perfect, and to be honest, i'd rather have 7 on one bar than 5 on two.

Agree totally ... Need 2 more situational skill handy rather than a clumsy weapon change in the middle of combat

Tankqull

connectedb16_ESO wrote: »

Dont need more buttons, maybe you should learn to actually make a choise in what skills you bring to an encounter, you cant have it all. Its like you are all below lvl 15 and only have 1 weaponset. Its not 5+1 its 10+2.

and that is sadly not true as you are forced to have slotts double slotted, slotted in a redundand way to compensate for the rubish swap delay etc. so in some class dependant cases the system is fine in other situations e.g. pet sorcs healing templars the system with two bars simply sucks. im fine with the 10+1.5skill slots we currently have(the ultimate limitation neglects a proper switch anyway) would be more than enough if they either skipp the blody switch delay or merge the two quickbars into one wich would be my preferrd move with backround weapon switches en- or disabling the slotted skills.

Makkir

Pretty dumb comment. The reason for the limitation comes down to making smart decisions ahead of time. It really does come down to skill.

Psychic_Kitty wrote: »

I hate the skill limitation
What's going to happen is people are going to get tired of only having 5 skills and leave the game.....yep they can get more...but can only use 5....which begs the question why have other skills then?

Razzak

Having one or even two more skills on our action bar would make a combat less repetitive which is always a good result. And it would not hurt the game or it's combat system in any significant way, imo.

Silverbird

Actually you have to decide, whether you want a strong buff or another attacking skill. This especially counts for the pvp. Magelight? Rapid Maneuvre? Siege Shield? Purge? Restoring Aura? (I play a healing templar, so i havent looked too much into the other classes yet.)
To be honest it doesnt matter that much, if you have 5 or 7 skillslots. There are plenty more skills, that want to be used and if you allow 7 skills the players would cry for more.

MrAmadeus

Just for the devs looking into see what the general opnion about this is.
I love the 2x 5 skills + 1 ulti setup. For the same reasons as the many very good posts in this threads allready ahve stated. So I can't be arsed to type it when someone have been so kind to do it for me! Just adding my voice to the YAY sayers!

Aimeryan

As I said previously, the 10 skills would be fine, if not for the unresponsiveness when swapping bars. Simply get rid of the 0.25 second delay - it allows players to then que up abilities for smooth gameplay.

Without the delay, an option to have both skill bars on the screen at the same time and use different keybindings becomes viable. Those who prefer the 'swap and use same keybindings' can keep it, while those who are able to use more than 5 keys at a time can choose to do so.

Nehemia

Aimeryan wrote: »

As I said previously, the 10 skills would be fine, if not for the unresponsiveness when swapping bars. Simply get rid of the 0.25 second delay - it allows players to then que up abilities for smooth gameplay.

Without the delay, an option to have both skill bars on the screen at the same time and use different keybindings becomes viable. Those who prefer the 'swap and use same keybindings' can keep it, while those who are able to use more than 5 keys at a time can choose to do so.

This. Or give us 10 skills and 2 ultimates, and allow us to swap weapons without switching our hotbars. The whole hotbar switch thing is so clumsy I personally only have buffs / self-heals on hotbar 2, there's just no point switching it mid-combat when it takes so freaking long to do so.

Personally, I'd want 7 skills per hotbar.

Aimeryan

It isn't that it takes long in itself, its that you can't que skills on the other bar until the swap has gone through. Hence, in combat, it is very unresponsive and often takes several attempts to do what you want, which, causes it to take a while.

I really can't imagine Zenimax prefers an unresponsive UI. They can try and clean it up, lets things que better; just make things more smooth. However, this might take a while to do.

The quick way to solve this is to just remove the swap delay. It is very minor (literally, try it out when not currently doing something - it'll be done in the blink of an eye), but because it can't be done during other actions it just makes things feel sluggish.

There are a few other responsiveness issues, too - for example, queing up lightning splash to cast after the current action can't be done properly because the template wont appear until the action has finished. You also can't attack during this as it cancels the que (unlike other abilities).

Zargorius

Aimeryan wrote: »

It isn't that it takes long in itself, its that you can't que the swap and you can't que skills on the other bar until the swap has gone through. Hence, in combat, it is very unresponsive and often takes several attempts to do what you want, which, causes it to take a while.

I really can't imagine Zenimax prefers an unresponsive UI. They can try and clean it up, lets things que better; just make things more smooth. However, this might take a while to do.

The quick way to solve this is to just remove the swap delay. It is very minor (literally, try it out when not currently doing something - it'll be done in the blink of an eye), but because it can't be done during other actions it just makes things feel sluggish.

Except you're not swapping imaginary skill bars, you're swapping in game weapons. The delay is just fine, was it me I would actually increase it a bit.

Memnock

I see some of the responses from the people who like the current system of 5+1 per weapon loadout , is that this system allows them to look at the world more than at their keyboards and that it allows you to think of your setup for that specific situation and i kind of get the idea that the ones who are looking at their keyboards on other MMOs are definitely clickers , maybe i am wrong , but for the time being having such a limited way to set up your character only limits the diversity of builds that you can create for a class , since most people will go for optimization eventually , for a specific spec , you will see , 6 VR 10 RDPS Sorcs that will have the same damn setup , because of the limited about of slots that you have to play around with .
It also seems that people either don't pay atention to what is said in this thread , no one here wants to have 40+ skills (but aparently everyone thinking 2 more is a bad thing , have that in mind ).
Someone said , that its hard to put all the skills on the 1-6 keys on the keyboard , i have that setup right now , so i can bind "R" for something else , seriously , if you are saying that there are people who played other MMOs that are finding this hard , then LOL , and if anyone here played Skyrim , another LOL , since even that game had more skills that you could bind to your keyboard , so instead of being affraid of having to think of a broader variety of builds that could be encountered on the battle field, we should do the opposite.
Please consider this carefully, the OP doesn't ask for a but load of skills , just 2 more per weapon loadout.
Also , there is always the option , for the people who "don't want to look at their keyboards" ) , to not bind more , i mean seriously , some people actually created addons that switch gear , weapons and skill bar loadouts and they can cycle through 4 sets of predetermined setups so this is aready happening , on an even larger scale than we are asking for. At one point , will you call those guys cheaters , because they macroed their sets and are cylicing through them at will ?

Uviryth

The players keep getting dumber. I guess the difficulty of the game has to take this into account...

zamiel

It's a limiting factor. Who manages to put more usable skills in his bar will win against someone who just dumps 5 of the most sparkly ones. This game seriously lacks cooldowns, learn to setup a skill bar and don't put 4 DD abilities on it because it's redundant. It also limits PvP abilites - imagine a NB with full loadout of stuns, snares AND siphoning skills.

It's a good thing, keep it this way.

Aimeryan

Zargorius wrote: »

Except you're not swapping imaginary skill bars, you're swapping in game weapons. The delay is just fine, was it me I would actually increase it a bit.

Point? I didn't say anything about weapons, read again.

Memnock

What about a NB with a full loadout of stuns and whatever ? After you break 1 stun or disorient effect you are IMMUNE for 8 damn seconds ? Stun locking can't happen in this game , again how many control and drain skills could you have on a 7 keybind bard ?! yeah 7. The scenario you just listed above , can happen right now if that same NB , wants to control and drain a guy , it just limits them from expanding their playstyle into something more , same with a DK that will use one of his bards to survivability , they got a skill that recovers a but load of their HP , couple that with some mitigation stuff and you got a guy who can reset the fight mid combat, again scenatios like this exist already.
The only thing that adding 2 more skills per weapon loadout would do , is to add diversity.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

skyrim only had 3 skill slots if you think about it, you had your left and right hand, and your thuum/powers, oblivion and morrowind were somewhat the same.

Memnock

true , but if you decided to play with spells , you could bind the spells on the number keys in the favorites menu and then just switch between 10 or more skills in your hands , Thuum included in this as well , although , i almost never used anything other the Fus Ro Dah one

rwood0604_ESO

Idk I personally agree that 7 skills instead of 5 would make me happy cause for me i like mu summoning skills on my mage but they take up 3 slots and yes there's 2 left 1 attack skill and my vampire drain skill that really isn't allowing me much room to do anything but that 1 attack, Yes i know there is a weapon swap but the thing about swapping is unless i have those same 3 summon skills slotted on the swap as well my summons go away so once more i would only have 2 more slots from swapping which is fine but i use Shield and sword when i tank and i also swap to bow so when i swap to bow it is just the same as before i end up with 2 weapon sets but both with only pretty much 1 attack skill while my summon skills and vamp drain take the other 4

ZiRM

I like it the way it is, forces people to move around and not just stand in one spot spamming skill keys. Action style combat.

rwood0604_ESO

Also for people comparing this to Skyrim and the other elderscrolls games tends to forget one important thing about this game, IT IS ONLINE, there IS PVP and you cant just pause this game to swap out skills before you start getting you butt kicked in this game like everyone knows you did on Skyrim but fails to think about it when someone mentions extra skill slots on this game, The fact of the matter is this set up is fine when and only when you are in pve but as for pvp this set up only favors half of the classes in the game and forces the other half to mostly have the same build just to do anything useful in pvp, or just do the good ol throw charged ranged attacks into groups of people like a thoughtless zombie.

rwood0604_ESO

But also I will add that I play just fine with 5 skills reguardless I just don't think adding 2 more skills will change much is all I was in here for.

Uviryth

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

skyrim only had 3 skill slots if you think about it, you had your left and right hand, and your thuum/powers, oblivion and morrowind were somewhat the same.

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/23416/?

Skyrim UI sucked. It only had 3 Skill Slots because of the sucky sucky consoles it was created.
It was just a terrible Console-Port, getting fixed by the community over the years.

Shaun98ca2

Memnock wrote: »

It also seems that people either don't pay atention to what is said in this thread , no one here wants to have 40+ skills (but aparently everyone thinking 2 more is a bad thing , have that in mind )

Well then here is another argue that has been stated against adding in "just 1 more slot"

SOMEBODY just wants 1 more. Somebody ELSE wants just 2 more. Somebody else wants all 10. Hey the keyboard has the -+ key WHY cant we be using these on the hot bar 12 sloted abilities. Why cant we have the weapon swap faster so its like 24 abilities. HEY I can use alt+keys so why cant I have 48 abilities.

NOBODY asked for it. But where do you draw the line? WHY are we going to stop at "7+2". WE couldn't stop at 5+1 the systems fine and now it "HAS TO CHANGE". So there is always reason for more the question is WHY WONT WE ADD MORE towards 40+ SOMEBODY WILL ask for it. 10 abilities on a hot bar with weapon swap is damn close.

the1andonlypzb14_ESO

I believe they're trying to break that mold of having set roles per dungeon and get more involved in filling multiple roles. For instance, if you fill a 4 player group with two players with tank trees, two players with healing trees and then a mix of dps / CC trees - you would do pretty well for yourself.

Having all 4 players help to fill all 3 roles is an awesome idea in my opinion, and encourages building a more well rounded character - allowing tons of people to enjoy running group content - not just the hardcore "I gotta have the best / most efficient skill set" players.

Tankqull

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Memnock wrote: »

It also seems that people either don't pay atention to what is said in this thread , no one here wants to have 40+ skills (but aparently everyone thinking 2 more is a bad thing , have that in mind )

Well then here is another argue that has been stated against adding in "just 1 more slot"

SOMEBODY just wants 1 more. Somebody ELSE wants just 2 more. Somebody else wants all 10. Hey the keyboard has the -+ key WHY cant we be using these on the hot bar 12 sloted abilities. Why cant we have the weapon swap faster so its like 24 abilities. HEY I can use alt+keys so why cant I have 48 abilities.

NOBODY asked for it. But where do you draw the line? WHY are we going to stop at "7+2". WE couldn't stop at 5+1 the systems fine and now it "HAS TO CHANGE". So there is always reason for more the question is WHY WONT WE ADD MORE towards 40+ SOMEBODY WILL ask for it. 10 abilities on a hot bar with weapon swap is damn close.

the current system highly prefers classes relying on timed and not "permanent" effects and due to the clunky weaponswitch mechanic classes that do not rely on quick reactions as two seconds while you are waiting for your qb switch progres can decide about live and death (healers in pvp e.g.).
so all i want is a simultanius acces to the 10 ability slots we allready have (they are enough from my pov if you are not forced to double slot) while the weapon swithch is handled in the background enabling and disabling the used skills on the quickbar as it is now. that would mean a system as restrictive as now but without horribly gimping some classes/specs while others are merely touched.

Shaun98ca2

tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »

the current system highly prefers classes relying on timed and not "permanent" effects and due to the clunky weaponswitch mechanic classes that do not rely on quick reactions as two seconds while you are waiting for your qb switch progres can decide about live and death (healers in pvp e.g.).
so all i want is a simultanius acces to the 10 ability slots we allready have (they are enough from my pov if you are not forced to double slot) while the weapon swithch is handled in the background enabling and disabling the used skills on the quickbar as it is now. that would mean a system as restrictive as now but without horribly gimping some classes/specs while others are merely touched.

Well the current system feels "clunky" due to the fact its a "role change".

Whether most people are using it as a role change or simply an extension of their current role, its a role change.

Being that its a role change the devs DIDNT want people to rapidly change between 2 different role in combat. Yes you can change roles during combat but its a penalizing system to avoid over usage that's why there is a delay in the weapon swap. The builds on weapon swaps are supposed to be a build of their own, that's why there is frustration when your trying to extend your current role.

But im sure this will fall on deaf ears.

guterreeb17_ESO

I just thinks this is very limited because of the persistent self buffs...

When I use timed buff I can switch between bars and they stay up for the duration, the unlimited duration not so much wich means i have to give up another slot in the other bar just so they stay up and that is wrong very wrong...

And if that is working as intended that it seriously needs revising, it's my pet pive with this game and one I can see putting me off from the game in the future

Tankqull

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Well the current system feels "clunky" due to the fact its a "role change".

so switching from healstaff to healstaff is a rolechange... great story...

the current system is extreamly lackluster and digging for excuses doesn´t change that fact.
when you have classes where the (rubbish) "rolechange" isnt a hinderance as they can rely entirly on timed effects on the second bar wich are not effected by the stupid excuse of an role change by switching the bars. while other classes are horribly gimped. due to the need of doubleslotting and redundand slotting to provide usefull reaction times.
then the system is flawed in its core.

Aimeryan

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »

the current system highly prefers classes relying on timed and not "permanent" effects and due to the clunky weaponswitch mechanic classes that do not rely on quick reactions as two seconds while you are waiting for your qb switch progres can decide about live and death (healers in pvp e.g.).
so all i want is a simultanius acces to the 10 ability slots we allready have (they are enough from my pov if you are not forced to double slot) while the weapon swithch is handled in the background enabling and disabling the used skills on the quickbar as it is now. that would mean a system as restrictive as now but without horribly gimping some classes/specs while others are merely touched.

Well the current system feels "clunky" due to the fact its a "role change".

Whether most people are using it as a role change or simply an extension of their current role, its a role change.

Being that its a role change the devs DIDNT want people to rapidly change between 2 different role in combat. Yes you can change roles during combat but its a penalizing system to avoid over usage that's why there is a delay in the weapon swap. The builds on weapon swaps are supposed to be a build of their own, that's why there is frustration when your trying to extend your current role.

But im sure this will fall on deaf ears.

Wrong. I'm not going to inform you of this again; this is the last time, so listen up - this is all your opinion. You can't tell people how they must play.

Besides, you are highly likely to be wrong with the statement "the devs DIDNT want people to rapidly change between 2 different role in combat" - you can switch VERY quickly. Try it. it is less than 0.25 seconds. How much quicker could it be without being practically unnoticeable?

The issue here is not the overall design, it is the unresponsive small parts that fit into that design. For example, you can't queue the weapon swap while using a heavy attack. You can't queue the weapon swap right after casting an ability; you have to wait a moment (it isn't long, but if you do it too quickly and don't notice you can end up wasting a lot of time). You can't queue abilities on the other bar because you can't see the other bar until the weapon swap has occurred. It is easy to double-tap the weapon swap by accident. Sometimes it just fails to queue the swap at all, for no apparent reason.

These are UI issues, not mechanic issues. Very few games make it their mission to give the user a poor UI, so stop trying to peddle it as desired.

MoMoOG

I'm fine with 5 + ultimate x 2. My problem however is the horrible delay when switching weapons which makes the mechanic clunky/not fun.