New Mist Form and easy access to movement speed killed Sorc identity

StaticWave

Giulietta wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Sorc's identity has always been the ability to enter or leave a fight at will with Streak/Ball of Lightning and have a fast movement speed. That identity is now gone when every class can slot Mist Form if they want to or stack movement speed with little investment. This does not help that Sorc is also the only class whose healing is not yet updated with the recent meta. Why play sorc when other classes have better healing and can also copy Sorc's identity?

If ZOS's Dev team is not willing to give Sorc a reliable source of healing, then I want Mist Form change reverted and movement speed sources harder to get.

great suggestion. "give me what I want or take from others what they want" and on top of that you claim the sorc´s identity was stolen. the sorc´s identity is untouched: it´s defined by flappywings.

Have you not been following the class buffs? Honest question. And no, pets are not the identity of Sorc.

StaticWave

You can’t say pets are Sorc’s identity when Necro, Warden, and NB can summon something. It might be a different kind of summon, but it’s still close enough because you can wear Necropotence on those classes. If those summons weren’t considered a pet, you wouldn’t be able to wear it. Not to mention you could also use a set to proc Necropotence. If that was Sorc’s identity then the class has already lost it years ago lol.

But I can guarantee with you that until this patch, you could not replicate Streak, which is why in my opinion it is the best representative of the class’ identity.

Giulietta

StaticWave wrote: »

Giulietta wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Sorc's identity has always been the ability to enter or leave a fight at will with Streak/Ball of Lightning and have a fast movement speed. That identity is now gone when every class can slot Mist Form if they want to or stack movement speed with little investment. This does not help that Sorc is also the only class whose healing is not yet updated with the recent meta. Why play sorc when other classes have better healing and can also copy Sorc's identity?

If ZOS's Dev team is not willing to give Sorc a reliable source of healing, then I want Mist Form change reverted and movement speed sources harder to get.

great suggestion. "give me what I want or take from others what they want" and on top of that you claim the sorc´s identity was stolen. the sorc´s identity is untouched: it´s defined by flappywings.

Have you not been following the class buffs? Honest question. And no, pets are not the identity of Sorc.

What about my post makes you think I was talking about buffs?

I didn't say pets are the sorc's identity, flappywings are. No other class has anything like it.

StaticWave

Giulietta wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Giulietta wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Sorc's identity has always been the ability to enter or leave a fight at will with Streak/Ball of Lightning and have a fast movement speed. That identity is now gone when every class can slot Mist Form if they want to or stack movement speed with little investment. This does not help that Sorc is also the only class whose healing is not yet updated with the recent meta. Why play sorc when other classes have better healing and can also copy Sorc's identity?

If ZOS's Dev team is not willing to give Sorc a reliable source of healing, then I want Mist Form change reverted and movement speed sources harder to get.

great suggestion. "give me what I want or take from others what they want" and on top of that you claim the sorc´s identity was stolen. the sorc´s identity is untouched: it´s defined by flappywings.

Have you not been following the class buffs? Honest question. And no, pets are not the identity of Sorc.

What about my post makes you think I was talking about buffs?

I didn't say pets are the sorc's identity, flappywings are. No other class has anything like it.

Sorc never got any defensive buffs while others have. That’s what I meant when I asked if you’ve been following the class buffs.

LittlePinkDot

Giulietta wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Giulietta wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Sorc's identity has always been the ability to enter or leave a fight at will with Streak/Ball of Lightning and have a fast movement speed. That identity is now gone when every class can slot Mist Form if they want to or stack movement speed with little investment. This does not help that Sorc is also the only class whose healing is not yet updated with the recent meta. Why play sorc when other classes have better healing and can also copy Sorc's identity?

If ZOS's Dev team is not willing to give Sorc a reliable source of healing, then I want Mist Form change reverted and movement speed sources harder to get.

great suggestion. "give me what I want or take from others what they want" and on top of that you claim the sorc´s identity was stolen. the sorc´s identity is untouched: it´s defined by flappywings.

Have you not been following the class buffs? Honest question. And no, pets are not the identity of Sorc.

What about my post makes you think I was talking about buffs?

I didn't say pets are the sorc's identity, flappywings are. No other class has anything like it.

Why the hell would I even use that skill?
It sucks. Takes up 2 bar slots.

Bushido2513

Giulietta wrote: »

I didn't say pets are the sorc's identity, flappywings are. No other class has anything like it.

Class identity for the purposes of this discussion isn't just about a skill that only this class has but how much it factors into creating a signature for the class.

Generally speaking you will find a large amount of sorcs have streak in the bar so it has become an often seen identifier of the class.

Yes if you see flappy you know it's a sorc but in pvp you're free me likely to see it as much as you'll see streek.

So flappy as a burst heal on a summon is unique to sorc but since most have better overall burst heals it's not really contributing to sorc class identity as much for the sake of this discussion.

Melzo

StaticWave wrote: »

You can’t say pets are Sorc’s identity when Necro, Warden, and NB can summon something. It might be a different kind of summon, but it’s still close enough because you can wear Necropotence on those classes. If those summons weren’t considered a pet, you wouldn’t be able to wear it. Not to mention you could also use a set to proc Necropotence. If that was Sorc’s identity then the class has already lost it years ago lol.

But I can guarantee with you that until this patch, you could not replicate Streak, which is why in my opinion it is the best representative of the class’ identity.

I do not see an adequate argument against the fact that the form of fog would cease to exist in the form in which it is now. A sorcerer's personality is not one skill, but many skills and their combinations. Nonsense that one skill represents the entire class. Other classes have a bunch of skills that can be used not only by them, but also by the sorcerer. I've played three mmo games and all have teleportation. And all were sorcerers or wizards. But no one has confirmed that teleportation is a class skill, since literally everyone has it. You started talking about the mist form, but why don't you mind that the arcanist also has teleportation?? Somehow I don’t see a bunch of dissatisfied wardens that their exclusive skill of acceleration became available to everyone after the chapter of Summerset or why now every vampire received the same transformation as my necromancer. I saw a bunch of sorcerers when they used the vampire's ult and no one ran to write on the forum that the exclusive skill was taken away from the necromancer. You've made a bunch of suggestions for direct healing in other forum threads, but decided to set the condition to either direct healing or mist form. Am I wrong about something? You demand the very best for your class and don't want other classes to get anything.

Mayrael

StaticWave wrote: »

Now this may sound contradicting to some people because I said root and snare immunity is bad if there's no follow-up movement speed, but that's an entirely separate issue. Realistically, you don't need the extra movement speed if the immunity lasts long enough. Back when Forward Momentum lasted 8s instead of 4s, you did not really need all that extra speed because you simply could not be snared or rooted for 8s, which was enough time for you to drop a quick ult dump, get a few kills, then get out.

After the nerf, you had to build more speed to create enough distance because recasting it every 4s is a huge waste of stam/mag. In fact, recasting any snare & root immunity right now is a huge waste of resources if you do not have enough movement speed to get away. That is why Snow Treaders is such a carry for ball groups because some snares/roots are just ridiculously OP (Bombard, Ash Cloud, Caltrops, etc.). You don't have to worry about all of that if you never get snared or rooted.

Basically, what I'm saying is there also needs to be compromise if movement speed is harder to achieve. Snare and root immunity duration needs to be slightly increased. People will move slower, but they won't be slowed as easily. Does that mean it will be harder to kill them? No, definitely not. You still need to move fast to survive, or eventually you will be overwhelmed and that snare/root immunity won't be able to save you. What this change can do though, is give Sorc back the speed advantage it has lost over the years. Sorc will be able to survive better, and you won't need to give it a burst heal if it can reliably take advantage of its innate faster movement speed.

Actually I like this idea. Sorc always was hit and run type, it used to be the fastest class, but now it's irrelevant since everyone can reach speed cap pretty easy. I think this could add more flavour to PvP.

Weckless

The major expedition isnt the issue. It's been around and was okay to deal with. The problem is the countless new sources of it on top of things like celerity, swift jewelry, medium armor bonuses, etc. And to top it all off they gave stam sorcs unique minor expedition buff to nb as a bonus just for slotting it on their already overloaded spammable. And that's from a NB main lol. You used to have to run a bow or use race against time for expedition now its everywhere to stack on all the other easy to obtain sources of speed and now sorcs aren't even fast anymore. I remembered back when stamsorcs could zip in and out of range and reset fights nearly the same as NB could with cloak and shade without even needing to streak

Bushido2513

This is how it was once upon a time and people hated it and asked for things to be more like they are now.

I vote for a player character that you control but that has limits. To much root and snare just removes player control which when overdone is also not fun.

Weckless

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

Let them add. Am I against it? I don't want mist form to fit the sorcerer because it's a general skill. My necromancer does not have acceleration skills and I take them from general skills, my necromancer does not have skills that allow teleporting to the enemy like when using the dk chain, but there is a similar skill in a two-handed weapon. You and your chat mate are suggesting to strengthen the sorcerer and in most cases these are crazy ideas as they either make the sorcerer too strong or simply destroy certain gameplay. I wrote my proposal. But yours is so absurd that even after all your suggestions, they still did not remove the delay of the exchanger, but added two minor buffs. Why did they do that?? Because the sorcerer would have opened all the doors in pvp and there was no point in playing with other classes. Each class has limitations and with the addition of direct healing, the sorcerer automatically became the strongest class in the game. I just do not know how to kill the sorcerer after that. For me, among all the opponents, the hybrid sorcerer represents the greatest danger. And the only way to kill him is to somehow catch him and interrupt his combo chain so that he goes into defense. When the sorcerer goes into defense, he does not hold a blow well, and only then can the sorcerer be killed.

I have written on other topics on the sorcerer for a long time because you yourself spoil your class with many ideas such as mana shield will depend on spell damage. I didn’t stop just doing something to write there because I didn’t see the point. They will strengthen the sorcerer with direct healing or make the shield depend on all attacking characteristics. I frankly don't care. But I don't like you transferring your class problems to general skills. A vampire is far from being the best light. As many as three skills are useless garbage. But you want to throw one more skill in the trash.

Lol you're missing something if you think a burst heal will make sorc automatically better than DK, NB, or even Warden. Templar and Necro are in weird places right now but even still a burst heal on sorc would just make things even. You're saying it like he wants everything, burst heal, speed removed from others, mistform gone. He's saying he'd like a good trade off.

Basically sorc should be a hit and run class with mediocre healing or at least a potential brawler with good healing. Currently it's somewhat hard to see it as excelling at either.


The vampire skill like needs a rework and I think the idea of mist form is a good one but there are better ways to implement it so that it doesn't seem like an improved ball of lightning. I liked the previous form but I and others were able to use and somewhat abuse it, which also wasn't good.

Yea, I specifically said multiple times in this thread and other Sorc threads that I'm willing to trade my sustain for a burst heal. Dark Deal seems to be the perfect candidate. I don't even need the healing to be scalable. All they need to do is remove the cast time, lower the resource return by a significant amount to compensate for the cast time removal, and it's done.

Being able to block cast a pseudo burst heal is more preferred than shield spamming, and it won't make Sorc suddenly OP. Magsorc now has to choose between an instant cast pseudo burst heal with lower resource return or Dark Conversion with normal resource return and a cast time. Stamsorc will now have something to work with and can stay in the fight longer.

What is the instant burst heal with lower resource return?

Bushido2513

A desired change, not one that's currently in the game.

Weckless

Bushido2513 wrote: »

A desired change, not one that's currently in the game.

Oh okay i get it now

Bushido2513

So I was just taking a quick look around but I feel like I don't see many people recommending mist form as part of a build. That could be for various reason, maybe it hasn't caught on or I wonder if it's just more of a casual skill?

Maybe it's just not needed due to the existing movement speed buffs. I'm just thinking that maybe giving access to everyone isn't as big a deal if the skill isn't actually getting used by everyone.

Though if speed were nerfed or snares/roots were buffed I wonder if the skill would then see a lot more play?

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

So I was just taking a quick look around but I feel like I don't see many people recommending mist form as part of a build. That could be for various reason, maybe it hasn't caught on or I wonder if it's just more of a casual skill?

Maybe it's just not needed due to the existing movement speed buffs. I'm just thinking that maybe giving access to everyone isn't as big a deal if the skill isn't actually getting used by everyone.

Though if speed were nerfed or snares/roots were buffed I wonder if the skill would then see a lot more play?

You see them more in Cyrodiil. Healing is abundant on most classes to not require slotting it for the time being. But it’s definitely very strong when combined with movement speed to kite zergs. I’ve seen several players do it.

Bushido2513

I think it's going to be interesting to see if it really picks up use. I don't mind someone kiting zergs since people could always do that before and with the previous mist form.

After going back and looking at the skill again I'd say killing sorc identity is probably not the right description.

It more so robs sorc of a chance to have a really unique skill morph. It's a shame to see a skill that basically is what bol should exactly be.

I'd prefer they revert the skill tune the damage mitigation and just transfer the current skill to bol

Pelanora

Giulietta wrote: »

I didn't say pets are the sorc's identity, flappywings are. No other class has anything like it.

Omg just shoot me now