New Mist Form and easy access to movement speed killed Sorc identity

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

When i first saw the mist change i thought it would pretty fun being able to have an escape tool similiar to streak. Then I realized that whenever you give a tool like that to everyone, it becomes useless to the people using it as intended and only useful for the ones chasing that guy down with their zerg using it to prevent him from having any breathing room.

Might also help if being a vampire had enough reasonable drawbacks to go with the buffs. People should feel the same way about playing vampires as lycanthrope rage feels about playing ww in that whether the build is great or sub par you at least get the thematic fantasy option.

Vampire should be more subclass than skill line and have it's own identity which would probably end up in not having this situation we have with mist form.

The thing most people seem to misunderstand is players in PvP intentionally become a stage 3 Vamp just for that Undeath passive. The benefit of having just this passive is so great that the drawbacks are negligible.

At 50% HP, Undeath passive has already provided 15% dmg mitigation, which not only cancels out the 13% extra flame dmg taken, but also provides 2% extra mitigation. Combined with a meta where stacking into wd/sd is preferred over max stam/mag, we have players who sit at 40k+ HP with over 6.5k WD to make full use of this passive. A 40k HP player sitting at 50% HP is still 20k HP, which is 66.7% of a 30k HP player. He will only lose ~400 tooltip damage for his spammable, but gained 9k HP, which is more important in this meta where burst damage is so high.

Sustain is also a joke, especially in CP, so the drawback of 8% cost increase is merely an annoyance. HP recovery is also a dead stat, so there's no drawback at all for that.

With new Mist Form, not only are you getting an escape/gap closer tool that is 1k mag cheaper at stage 3 (albeit not as fluid as Ball of Lightning), but you are also getting Major Expedition, Major Evasion, and 300 wd/sd. Major Expedition and Evasion are extremely important for every build because you need to be moving fast to avoid melee players, and have enough mitigation against AoE damage that are undodgable. The 300 wd/sd beats Sorc's 2% wd/sd passive by a mile. For that 2% wd/sd to give an equivalent value of 300 wd/sd of Vamp passive, you'd have to already be sitting at 15000 wd/sd BEFORE modifiers, which is an impossible number for any PvP build lol. It's basically equivalent to slotting 3 class abilities on Sorc, or Templar's 6% extra wd/sd modifier passive. Not to mention that 300 wd/sd can be INCREASED by existing modifiers. Realistically, you're looking at over 400 extra wd/sd from this passive.

So how can anyone possibly say that Ball of Lightning feels better when Mist Form gives over 400 wd/sd, 4s of Major Expedition and Evasion, and allows you to create distance like Ball of Lightning, all for the cost of 1 bar slot and 1k less mag than Ball of Lightning. Think about it lol. You are literally getting the value of Quick Cloak, some set's 5th bonus, and Ball of Lightning, all in 1 ability lol.

I honestly don't know why I have to explain such things to people. It's so simple yet people don't seem to understand.

Turtle_Bot

StaticWave wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

This post will be long, so I've spoilered my replies and comments to make it shorter and hopefully easier to read and follow.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Im pretty sure the Sorcerer's ability to survive in PvP was stacking shields.

Also so what if the Vampire can do something similar, so can the Arcanist Class.

Shields/shield stacking

Static is right here, stamsorcs have never stacked shields (the cost is far too high, even for magsorcs, let alone stamsorcs and the shields as a mechanic are just too weak compared to other options such as rolling, blocking and specifically block casting).
Stacking shields is no longer the way to go with magsorc (I hate to be the bearer of bad news to shield stacking enjoyers, but the constant adjustments and changes to the shield mechanics over the years has rendered this playstyle very inefficient (at best) and basically obsolete (at worst) compared to other defensive options, see block heals). I've gone into the numbers much more in other threads.

The top magsorcs run vigor + hardened ward + dark conversion and rely heavily on streak creating enough of a gap to allow for multiple dark conversion to go uninterrupted to heal any decent amount. So even magsorcs are playing like stamsorcs, just with an alternative buffer to damage of a shield instead of dodge rolling.

The alternative (which is getting nerfed heavily next patch) is crutching on Mara's balm back bar to give sorcs the missing HoTs and burst heal that other classes inherently have access to in their class kit.

Mist form

This is why I was saying that mist form (while a fun ability) would be completely detrimental to sorcerers identity in PvP when the change was first revealed and why I will continue to say that mist forms change is a very apt reason to why sorcerers need to be given a proper burst heal, not tied to pets that is as reliable as other classes burst heals (even if the tooltip is slightly lower (5-10%) than other class's burst heals to account for streaks slightly better cast animation). The mobility in this game has reached a tipping point and sorcerers need to be reworked to be brought into the modern game to account for this significant change.

It's not just for PvP either, the only sorcerers you see in PvE are HA builds, pet builds (even PvE stamsorcs are now Petsorcs with a stamina weapon), or a combination of those 2 because the class is simply completely dead outside of those 2 niche builds that are ineffective in PvP (outside of the tri-focus exploit in IC).

It's not just mist form itself that is the issue (although it is the most obvious one), it's the combination of all the mobility options being made completely generic and so free and easy to obtain for all classes (exactly what I've said for months now on my sorc threads.
- mist form
- free major expedition from RaT
- the free 10% movement (same as minor expedition) from celerity CP
- the free 21% movement speed from swift traits on jewelry
- the free 10% movement from medium armor
- the free 15%/45% movement from wildhunt ring
and all of this is not counting the out of combat movement that is also freely available on top of this, that has enabled all classes to have the same effective movement speed and mobility of sorcerer, while sorcerer has not had its healing capabilities updated to reflect this widely (and freely) available mobility that was granted to the other classes.

Mist form is the "straw that broke the camels back" if you will, because up until the mist form change, sorcs were the only class that could still use horizontal unpathable terrain to their advantage (without setting up before hand, see NB shade).

As a sorc main, I immediately tried out the new mist form and after a few minutes to adjust to the new timing, I was able to easily replicate anything I could do with BoL, including how to cross unpathable terrain, change direction mid mist form, I could also use mist form to climb ledges that streak simply cannot climb due to the terrain gap making mistforms mobility even stronger than BoL. To the point that as a sorc main, BoL is now a dead skill. Mist form simply has too many good secondary effects and procs far too many good passives and is so insanely cheap to cast over BoL that it's just not worth it to slot BoL over mist form, even on a sorc, and with vampire being almost mandatory in PvP thanks to the undeath passive, it's not like you're giving up anything to obtain the advantages mist form gives, you would have already had the cost increase, weakness to flame damage and lower health recovery due to being stage 3 for the undeath passive or minimum stage 2 for the damage buff from stealth (looking at gankers here who typically ignore undeath for their builds).
The only thing keeping streak ahead of mist form is the stun and how the stun on streak saves bar space which is the most premium resource for sorcerers. Sorcs just don't have the bar space to slot mist form + stun due to how many abilities need to be slotted for their burst window compared to other classes due to how lackluster sorcs access to buffs, debuffs and secondary effects are in the class kit.

DrNukenstein wrote: »

yeah, but the difference is that burst only takes 1 second of setup and can be delivered from range. 2 seconds if you want to use curse to make it a 30k damage 3 pointer. I've eaten some nasty shalks/bones+dawnbreaker combos but that's not in league with what sorcs can do... from relative safety... every other second.

Sorcs burst combo.

I want to clarify a few things here. Curse has a 3.5 second timer (0.5 seconds longer than wardens delayed burst) for the first hit and a 12 second overall timer to land the second hit (3 seconds longer than mag beetles delayed burst)

Curse also doesn't deal its full damage in AoE (only half damage), it costs 20% more to use than beetles, it doesn't provide any secondary effects (not even 1 of major or minor breach while beetles gives both) and the trade off for beetles being a skill shot is that curse can be cleansed and has a very loud and distinct cue on its target when cast, while beetles cannot be cleansed and has no cue on its target.

So it takes much more than 1 or 2 seconds to set up a sorc burst combo, it's 3.5 seconds minimum if you want to deal any real damage to anyone who's remotely competent and it relies on them not having any cleanse (or Mara's) or the ability to simply dodge roll the entire combo as soon as they hear/see curse being cast on them.

It's why all sorcs are currently being ran as proc builds (stamina with masters DW for melee or way of fire/relequen for bow and magsorc running draughrkin + crushing shock + ele sus), because the class is completely dependent on the proc sets to provide enough pressure over time by draining an enemies resources to allow for a burst combo to actually land and deal damage.
Simply straight up using a sorcs burst combo against any semi-competent player always results in it being dodge rolled or simply shrugged off and healed through because it takes 3-4 GCD to line up whereas other classes only require 2-3 GCD at most to line up their burst. Anyone dying to a straight up sorc burst combo of overload, frags and curse (with nothing else being applied) is either afk or has a major L2P issue.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Streak and Speed has never been the Sorcerer's identity, not sure if your aware of this but the Nightblade and the Arcanist Class are MUCH faster, if anything the Sorcerer's identity is being the Pet Class and how is Mist Form effecting Streak? the ability requires you to select a location like liquid lightning, other then also being a teleport it functions nothing alike.

I think he's talking about pvp, but sorc has notoriously been the "run and gun" class for PVP, the mobility streak gives you allows you to rush in, burst someone down and rush out, or speed away from people. Only really Nightblade had comparable mobility because of cloak and shadow image. For pvp, that kind of is sorc's identity.

Even so IMO sorc's run and gun identity still works because sorc can use mist form AND streak and rotate between the two and have no ramping cost. So people still can't reliably catch a sorc because they'll kill their mag pool and a sorc rotating between mist and streak will manage their mag a lot better.

Running both streak and mist form on sorc

I ran both for a while when mist form was first released and while the added mobility was nice (and fun), I couldn't deal any damage (I was even running a masters DW hybrid sorc to save on bar space, specifically to slot mist form and try out the "double streak", but it wasn't enough).
I tried several iterations
- frags proc as only burst skill (not enough damage and very unreliable since you rely on both an RNG proc + an RNG crit to deal any significant damage and the reduced proc chance was really severe, I still think it was bugged and much lower than the tooltip described).
- removed camo hunter for curse (not enough burst due to lower crit, my healing also greatly suffered because crit surge proc'd once every 4-5 seconds instead of once every 2-3).
- I lost utility and/or mandatory buffs from removing my shield or hurricane/lightning form making the class far too squishy.

Invis comparisons with NB to mist forms comparisons to sorc.

For the comparison of vampire passive invis to NB invis, the difference between that passive to NB invis and mist form to streak, is the 6/3 second ramp up time on the vampire passive.
NB invis will always be much better than the passive since you don't need what is essentially a 3 second cast time to activate it where as the vampire passive has what is essentially a 3 second cast time on it before it becomes active.

Meanwhile mistform is instant cast the same as BoL/streak with its difference being a 1 second travel time (with the advantage of being able to climb some vertical gaps and having greater precision with distance and where you land over streak/BoL) instead of a nearly instant travel time.

Deciding which class to play currently

If you want a high skill class with high damage and good survivability, go NB, anything else, go DK or warden (frost DK without corrosive).
It remains to be seen if the changes to PotL this upcoming patch will help plar (some plar mains are happy with it, some aren't, but it seems like it will bring them back from just being a beam bot in zergs at least).
As for sorc, throw on a generic proc stacking build and watch as DK/NB/warden does the same thing but better.
For cro, you have my condolences, probably have to take the same path as sorc for now with stacking DoT procs and out of class abilities with blast bones, slotting mist form and essentially playing an inferior DK/NB/warden.
Finally arcanist, I haven't had too much time to play around with it since the latest changes, but it seems like you can just slot mist form and run deadly + masters DW and basically become a sorc with better utility.

Like @StaticWave has said in this thread (and myself and multiple other sorc mains have said countless times in the past over numerous threads), the free movement speed given to other classes via generic skills, CP, traits, and passives/secondary effects, has been a huge issue for sorcs, especially in PvP where mobility was sorcerers niche over the other classes and the reason to deny the class a proper heal that had no downside. The change to mist form is the straw that broke the camels back for sorcerer in PvP and as a class with any unique identity overall.

(As well as NBs getting an actual good burst heal which showed that it is very possible for a glass cannon class that takes skill to use effectively to be given very high mobility, mitigation, damage and healing all at once).

Thanks @Turtle_Bot, you've said everything I wanted to say in a clearer and better worded way.

Stamsorc needs to slot 3 proc sets to do what a DK can innately do through class skills. Stamsorc needs to wear Mara's Balm just to have a decent burst heal when those 3 classes innately have it. Wanna stack into crit damage? Too bad, you won't ever have the same crit chance as a NB or a skill that can guarantee 100% crit rate like Cloak (Did I mention Cloak also procs the 300 wd/sd vamp passive?). Oh, you won't have 100% pen from Corrosive either, so good luck trying to balance your stats around wd, pen, crit rate, and crit dmg lol.

If you try slotting a stat build on a stamsorc, don't even. Those 3 classes can perform better in the exact same build. I've done a more in depth break down over this in another thread. Oh if you ever tried to build for max HP to take advantage of Blood Magic heal scaling? Don't either. Those 3 classes can do it better because it's extremely easy to have 45k HP and 7k WD, thereby retaining the same tooltip damage as a regular damage build while having a super high HP pool. Don't just take my word for it, go on ESO Editor and test it out for yourself.

There is literally no reason to play any iteration of sorc in this meta when Warden, DK, and NB exist. I've been hearing about how mDW/Vate Staff/Maarselok proc stamsorc is doing well. Guess what? That build is a 2 year old build. I've used it since Vate Staff first came out lol. It only resurfaced because of Mara's Balm, and Mara's Balm solved the only issue that stamsorc has, and that's not having a burst heal lol. So when that set gets nerfed these sorcs will disappear again to play another class. It's been like that forever and will continue to be like that unless this class gets properly adjusted to the current meta.

Glad I could help provide information in a clear way (just wish the devs would take notice of it too).

Yeah, sorc is just in a weird (unfortunate) spot right now, it keeps popping up with that proc stacking build every few patches when a few good players decide to switch to the class, subsequently see how bad the class kit still is outside of streak and slot multiple of whichever proc set is BiS for the patch, and because the build still performs well thanks to the procs, the class gets nerfed even further as a result.

It's going to be the same from the PvE side of the game soon too thanks to HA builds. I can see sorcs getting nerfed into the ground again thanks to that build, despite the build itself being practically the same for other classes (outside of daedric prey).
I'm already seeing "broakensorc" being spammed around the forums trying to paint sorc as the only HA class despite the sorc class itself (as a class and not using the HA build) being nowhere to be seen anywhere near the top of PvE content except as a support exclusively for atro's major berserk synergy.

StaticWave

And I've specifically said I wouldn't use it on Sorc because

1) Sorc has bar space issues, so Streak is the only choice for a stun + escape tool.
2) Sorc has bad healing, so the instant travel time of Ball of Lightning is more preferred because the class can't afford to sit there for half a second longer when using Mist Form.

If you sacrifice damage to run a tankier build on Sorc, then it makes more sense to use Mist Form just for that 300 wd/sd passive. You're basically getting back a portion of your offensive stats that were sacrificed to amp up your defensiveness, while also gaining more defense with Major Expedition and Evasion. It's literally a win-win lol.

On other classes, Mist Form is a much better ability than Streak or Ball of Lightning for the same reason that Mist Form is better on a tanky sorc build. Other classes in this current meta already has strong healing to begin with, and already has some form of stun in their tool kit. They could afford to drop 1 flex ability for Mist Form and will be better overall. Most people just choose not to do it.

Skoomah

StaticWave wrote: »

And I've specifically said I wouldn't use it on Sorc because

1) Sorc has bar space issues, so Streak is the only choice for a stun + escape tool.
2) Sorc has bad healing, so the instant travel time of Ball of Lightning is more preferred because the class can't afford to sit there for half a second longer when using Mist Form.

If you sacrifice damage to run a tankier build on Sorc, then it makes more sense to use Mist Form just for that 300 wd/sd passive. You're basically getting back a portion of your offensive stats that were sacrificed to amp up your defensiveness, while also gaining more defense with Major Expedition and Evasion. It's literally a win-win lol.

On other classes, Mist Form is a much better ability than Streak or Ball of Lightning for the same reason that Mist Form is better on a tanky sorc build. Other classes in this current meta already has strong healing to begin with, and already has some form of stun in their tool kit. They could afford to drop 1 flex ability for Mist Form and will be better overall. Most people just choose not to do it.

I thought Sorcs mainly get their damage mitigation from mobility and shields. Sorcs are still the best at both. In a broader context, different classes mitigate damage differently. Healing is a primarily tool for Templars and other classes. Like how stealth is a primary mitigation tool for Nightblades. You view the changes to Mistform as taking away your identity but other people might view it as opening up different ways to play a sorc.

Streak remains the superior teleport as does Nightblade invisibility even though the vampire skill line gives something that tries to copy it but isn’t as good as the original.

StaticWave

Skoomah wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

And I've specifically said I wouldn't use it on Sorc because

1) Sorc has bar space issues, so Streak is the only choice for a stun + escape tool.
2) Sorc has bad healing, so the instant travel time of Ball of Lightning is more preferred because the class can't afford to sit there for half a second longer when using Mist Form.

If you sacrifice damage to run a tankier build on Sorc, then it makes more sense to use Mist Form just for that 300 wd/sd passive. You're basically getting back a portion of your offensive stats that were sacrificed to amp up your defensiveness, while also gaining more defense with Major Expedition and Evasion. It's literally a win-win lol.

On other classes, Mist Form is a much better ability than Streak or Ball of Lightning for the same reason that Mist Form is better on a tanky sorc build. Other classes in this current meta already has strong healing to begin with, and already has some form of stun in their tool kit. They could afford to drop 1 flex ability for Mist Form and will be better overall. Most people just choose not to do it.

I thought Sorcs mainly get their damage mitigation from mobility and shields. Sorcs are still the best at both. In a broader context, different classes mitigate damage differently. Healing is a primarily tool for Templars and other classes. Like how stealth is a primary mitigation tool for Nightblades. You view the changes to Mistform as taking away your identity but other people might view it as opening up different ways to play a sorc.

Streak remains the superior teleport as does Nightblade invisibility even though the vampire skill line gives something that tries to copy it but isn’t as good as the original.

I disagree, stealth is no longer the primary mitigation for NB. NB went from a stealthy class into a generic sit and face tank class with Path + Dark Cloak + Health Offering.

Every single class outside of Sorc is also doing the same. Sorc is still the only class that relies completely on mobility and Streak to mitigate damage (and shield for magsorc).

Even shield has its weaknesses and I would argue that a 45k HP warden with Polar Wind will perform better than a 45k HP sorc with Hardened Ward, simply because of how strong block healing is compared to just shielding.

So my argument is that if they’re going to give everyone a copy cat ability like Mist Form, then give Sorc a reliable copy cat burst heal too. It makes no sense to take away Sorc’s identity but not give it anything in return.

Skoomah

StaticWave wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

And I've specifically said I wouldn't use it on Sorc because

1) Sorc has bar space issues, so Streak is the only choice for a stun + escape tool.
2) Sorc has bad healing, so the instant travel time of Ball of Lightning is more preferred because the class can't afford to sit there for half a second longer when using Mist Form.

If you sacrifice damage to run a tankier build on Sorc, then it makes more sense to use Mist Form just for that 300 wd/sd passive. You're basically getting back a portion of your offensive stats that were sacrificed to amp up your defensiveness, while also gaining more defense with Major Expedition and Evasion. It's literally a win-win lol.

On other classes, Mist Form is a much better ability than Streak or Ball of Lightning for the same reason that Mist Form is better on a tanky sorc build. Other classes in this current meta already has strong healing to begin with, and already has some form of stun in their tool kit. They could afford to drop 1 flex ability for Mist Form and will be better overall. Most people just choose not to do it.

I thought Sorcs mainly get their damage mitigation from mobility and shields. Sorcs are still the best at both. In a broader context, different classes mitigate damage differently. Healing is a primarily tool for Templars and other classes. Like how stealth is a primary mitigation tool for Nightblades. You view the changes to Mistform as taking away your identity but other people might view it as opening up different ways to play a sorc.

Streak remains the superior teleport as does Nightblade invisibility even though the vampire skill line gives something that tries to copy it but isn’t as good as the original.

I disagree, stealth is no longer the primary mitigation for NB. NB went from a stealthy class into a generic sit and face tank class with Path + Dark Cloak + Health Offering.

Every single class outside of Sorc is also doing the same. Sorc is still the only class that relies completely on mobility and Streak to mitigate damage (and shield for magsorc).

Even shield has its weaknesses and I would argue that a 45k HP warden with Polar Wind will perform better than a 45k HP sorc with Hardened Ward, simply because of how strong block healing is compared to just shielding.

So my argument is that if they’re going to give everyone a copy cat ability like Mist Form, then give Sorc a reliable copy cat burst heal too. It makes no sense to take away Sorc’s identity but not give it anything in return.

Of course stealth is the primary tool for NB damage mitigation. Nightblades go down to 10% go all the time and simply vanish to reset the fight. That’s a fundamental part of their design.

I’ve come across sorcs that shield stack and teleport away all the time and they are extremely hard to kill or impossible to catch up to and actually land a series of combos to take them out in time before they get away again.

The burst heal from sorc bird is incredible. Big burst heal that you don’t have to aim, incredible range, can heal your or a friend from across the map through walls, can be used a body block, etc.

Bushido2513

So I can't speak to who you play against or what formats you play in but I'll just say these assertions are highly subjective and so I'll explain. Also for the record I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said before. I just don't like to see this kind of subjective info being put out there without the whole story.

Skoomah wrote: »

Of course stealth is the primary tool for NB damage mitigation. Nightblades go down to 10% go all the time and simply vanish to reset the fight. That’s a fundamental part of their design.

A newer less experienced nb, bomber, or ganker is probably going to rely on cloak primarily for defense. Other popular variations like the brawler usually just use heals, movement speed, shadow image, RAW DAMAGE, etc to defend. So if you play more so with the first three then it would make sense that you see this as their primary defense. But what I'm trying to say is that it's what you're seeing in your environment and not necessarily what others like myself may run into more often.

When I fight a nb that uses cloak I typically have the advantage because I just have to break that. If I fight a nb that uses the other various forms of defense it's actually harder at times because they are stronger and not as easy to counter because I have to react to which one they decide to use at any given moment.

Skoomah wrote: »

I’ve come across sorcs that shield stack and teleport away all the time and they are extremely hard to kill or impossible to catch up to and actually land a series of combos to take them out in time before they get away again.

This is quite possible to run into but depending on your class and kit it's unfortunately easy to overcome. I'm not saying sorc is truly weak by any means but that the escape tactics you described are easily countered by experienced players. All you really need is good damage, good movement speed, and a stun or snare. That sounds like I might be saying all of the things but the thing is, most of the classes have this currently or have access to this. NB and DK can easily counter at this point and Static in another post detailed such. I personally have run into this on several occasions and watched as my shields, streak, and other defenses are nullified by high speed high damage classes/builds.

Skoomah wrote: »

The burst heal from sorc bird is incredible. Big burst heal that you don’t have to aim, incredible range, can heal your or a friend from across the map through walls, can be used a body block, etc.

Would be great if the bird didn't die at random/unexpected times or run off to attack whichever enemy it decided to engage. The only build I've been able to run the bird on with any success in pvp was an imperial physique build with vamp stage 4 because I could keep moving which caused the bird to keep up or just streak away long enough to recast him. I've seen some healer specific builds in battlegrounds that met with success using the bird but that's about it. In pvp as far as a RELIABLE combat heal, the bird quite often fails.

LittlePinkDot

StaticWave wrote: »

Sorc's identity has always been the ability to enter or leave a fight at will with Streak/Ball of Lightning and have a fast movement speed. That identity is now gone when every class can slot Mist Form if they want to or stack movement speed with little investment. This does not help that Sorc is also the only class whose healing is not yet updated with the recent meta. Why play sorc when other classes have better healing and can also copy Sorc's identity?

If ZOS's Dev team is not willing to give Sorc a reliable source of healing, then I want Mist Form change reverted and movement speed sources harder to get.

I hear ya on the lack of a burst heal. I'm forced to use a restoration staff on the back bar.... Did you noticed they gave Ember the sorc companion a burst heal? 🤣

But as for speed.. I don't even use streak.
There isn't enough bar space. I chose camo hunter instead for major prophecy. And endless fury for a ranged execute.

Other than pets, I think endless fury is a signature sorc identity skill. So satisfying in PvP.

LittlePinkDot

StaticWave wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Streak has never been the Sorcerer's identity, if anything it is the identity of being the Pet Class and how is Mist Form effecting Streak? the ability requires you to select a location like liquid lightning.

NBs, Necro, and Warden all have pets. That's why Necropotence set works on those classes.

Streak is the true identity of Sorc because up until now, no class has been able to replicate the ability of Streak.

Other then the Warden Bear the Sorcerer is the only other one with permanent Pets, the Necromancer does not have permanent pets and you are aware Mist Form does not stun the enemy? it also requires you to place a marker to teleport to (Not to mention requiring you to be a Vampire and taking on all their weaknesses) Streak does not require that.

If it is just the teleportation which is the problem then I have some bad news, it's called Apocryphal Gate.

Nobody runs pets in PvP man.. You're probably talking about PvE, but PvP sorc is really lacking behind in survivability. You probably don't even slot Streak in PvE lol.

Everybody is a vampire in PvP because of Undeath Passive giving 30% damage mitigation. If you aren't a vampire you are asking to lose a PvP fight.

And DK seems to be doing a good job of murdering Vamps.

Bushido2513

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

And DK seems to be doing a good job of murdering Vamps.

DK does a good job at murdering anything, vamp, no vamp, any other class, etc. You're actually better off being a vamp against a DK at this point even though you'd think all the flame damage would be an issue.

Vamps should actually be buffed and reworked to be a true subclass but the mitigation should be toned down.

LittlePinkDot

DrNukenstein wrote: »

yeah, but the difference is that burst only takes 1 second of setup and can be delivered from range. 2 seconds if you want to use curse to make it a 30k damage 3 pointer. I've eaten some nasty shalks/bones+dawnbreaker combos but that's not in league with what sorcs can do... from relative safety... every other second.

Curse can be cleansed... Especially with Maras balm etc.

StaticWave

Skoomah wrote: »

Of course stealth is the primary tool for NB damage mitigation. Nightblades go down to 10% go all the time and simply vanish to reset the fight. That’s a fundamental part of their design.

But you have to understand that the current iteration of NB can also choose to not vanish and heal through your damage instead. It's a result of ZoS giving them a strong burst heal and buffing their HoTs over the past few patches. NBs who still use Shadowy Disguise also benefit from this, as they now have a stronger burst heal and can slot DW on front bar for more damage than a traditional 2h.

This was never a fundamental part of their design to receive a strong burst heal. NB was designed to be a squishy class that requires elusiveness to survive. It's only been recently that ZoS decided to just throw away the thing that keeps this class balanced and turn it in to a Templar 2.0 that can 1 shot you and be elusive simultaneously lol.

Skoomah wrote: »

I’ve come across sorcs that shield stack and teleport away all the time and they are extremely hard to kill or impossible to catch up to and actually land a series of combos to take them out in time before they get away again.

That's weird, because the sorcs I've encountered could streak 5 times in a row and I would still be able to sprint to them for the cost of maybe 2k stam? Meanwhile they've wasted 20k of their mag and still get caught up.

This is not even counting the people that slot a gap closer. Don't believe me? Try streaking away in Cyrodiil against a blood thirsty group with gap closers and you will see why it's almost impossible to get away from them.

Skoomah wrote: »

The burst heal from sorc bird is incredible. Big burst heal that you don’t have to aim, incredible range, can heal your or a friend from across the map through walls, can be used a body block, etc.

In a GvG, sure, but it's terrible outside of that. Whenever I fight a pet sorc i literally just kill their pet, interrupt them while they try to recast it, then have basically 3s of doing free dmg as they struggle to survive while waiting for the interrupt cooldown lol.

If i have to rely on my group's protection to do well as a pet sorc, then I don't think it's fair at all considering other classes can perform well solo or with a group.

LittlePinkDot

StaticWave wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Of course stealth is the primary tool for NB damage mitigation. Nightblades go down to 10% go all the time and simply vanish to reset the fight. That’s a fundamental part of their design.

But you have to understand that the current iteration of NB can also choose to not vanish and heal through your damage instead. It's a result of ZoS giving them a strong burst heal and buffing their HoTs over the past few patches. NBs who still use Shadowy Disguise also benefit from this, as they now have a stronger burst heal and can slot DW on front bar for more damage than a traditional 2h.

This was never a fundamental part of their design to receive a strong burst heal. NB was designed to be a squishy class that requires elusiveness to survive. It's only been recently that ZoS decided to just throw away the thing that keeps this class balanced and turn it in to a Templar 2.0 that can 1 shot you and be elusive simultaneously lol.

Skoomah wrote: »

I’ve come across sorcs that shield stack and teleport away all the time and they are extremely hard to kill or impossible to catch up to and actually land a series of combos to take them out in time before they get away again.

That's weird, because the sorcs I've encountered could streak 5 times in a row and I would still be able to sprint to them for the cost of maybe 2k stam? Meanwhile they've wasted 20k of their mag and still get caught up.

This is not even counting the people that slot a gap closer. Don't believe me? Try streaking away in Cyrodiil against a blood thirsty group with gap closers and you will see why it's almost impossible to get away from them.

Skoomah wrote: »

The burst heal from sorc bird is incredible. Big burst heal that you don’t have to aim, incredible range, can heal your or a friend from across the map through walls, can be used a body block, etc.

In a GvG, sure, but it's terrible outside of that. Whenever I fight a pet sorc i literally just kill their pet, interrupt them while they try to recast it, then have basically 3s of doing free dmg as they struggle to survive while waiting for the interrupt cooldown lol.

If i have to rely on my group's protection to do well as a pet sorc, then I don't think it's fair at all considering other classes can perform well solo or with a group.

This is why I don't bother slotting streak. It isn't worth the bar slot.
Just use some swift jewelry, maybe ring of the wild hunt.

Bushido2513

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

This is why I don't bother slotting streak. It isn't worth the bar slot.
Just use some swift jewelry, maybe ring of the wild hunt.

To each their own but I prefer major expedition with one or two swift with roll dodge n streak for a good evasion kit.

LittlePinkDot

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

This is why I don't bother slotting streak. It isn't worth the bar slot.
Just use some swift jewelry, maybe ring of the wild hunt.

To each their own but I prefer major expedition with one or two swift with roll dodge n streak for a good evasion kit.

Streak seems to not help much when everybody is fast and can gap close.

Still get minor expedition from hurricane anyway.

OBJnoob

You know what would be cool? If Ball of Lightning would "absorb" one gap closer too. Wouldn't that be neat?

Because streak honestly has enough uses anyway, and is arguably offensive in nature. Like even if I'm trying to get away I'm more likely to lead the followers around a corner... And when they turn the corner I'll streak through them rather than away. Like HA, we're going this way now, and spend a little stamina breaking free first.

Bushido2513

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

This is why I don't bother slotting streak. It isn't worth the bar slot.
Just use some swift jewelry, maybe ring of the wild hunt.

To each their own but I prefer major expedition with one or two swift with roll dodge n streak for a good evasion kit.

Streak seems to not help much when everybody is fast and can gap close.

Still get minor expedition from hurricane anyway.

This is correct depending on the situation. Like in open field if you and the person have equal speed and reaction times they will have a good chance of catching up to you due to the delay of the game rendering the animation.

I should have added that depending on who is chasing me I'll try to use los, the stun from streak, and elevation in different variations.

These days I try to keep fights near some type of structure or terrain so that I always have the extra option if I need it.

Bushido2513

OBJnoob wrote: »

You know what would be cool? If Ball of Lightning would "absorb" one gap closer too. Wouldn't that be neat?

Because streak honestly has enough uses anyway, and is arguably offensive in nature. Like even if I'm trying to get away I'm more likely to lead the followers around a corner... And when they turn the corner I'll streak through them rather than away. Like HA, we're going this way now, and spend a little stamina breaking free first.

I wouldn't want something as simple as one gap closer though I do think BOL needs a unique buff to make it worth actually choosing for the true escapist willing to give up the damage. I'd probably want something like a reduced cost, a damage shield, major protection for x seconds after use, a shadow copy for x seconds, something along the lines where your chances of getting away are higher but the enemy takes no damage.

Turtle_Bot

I just want to add to this, something I experienced during the last few days of MYM that shows just how absurdly free and available mobility is currently and why streak is just not as strong as it used to be.

On my sorc (my main), I had a plar and a DK chasing me from bleakers to aleswell (it started as a red faction stack chasing me as blues had just pushed bleakers but got repelled by the time I got there, but the DK and plar were the only 2 from that faction stack that were bloodthristy enough to continue the chase beyond the first 100m instead of breaking off to push aleswell farm).

Despite using LoS, rock formations, trees, terrain elevation and the stun from streak to my advantage to slow them down, both of these players on these supposedly slow "protect the house" classes were not only able to keep up with my streaking sorc, but were able to apply constant pressure and CC (fossilize and javelin) the entire length of the chase, enough pressure that had I stopped moving to actually properly engage them in combat, I would have easily been overwhelmed and killed. They also weren't even using mist form either, just simply sprinting and major expedition from RaT.

This is how free and absurd mobility has gotten in the game by now. 2 of the slowest classes in the game are not only able to easily keep up with what is supposed to be the most mobile class in the game, a streaking sorc, but also have the resources available to constantly apply pressure and CC the entire time over what was well over a kilometer of distance travelled through various terrain and obstacles that are supposed to favor the sorcs mobility.

Things like this are why sorcs need a proper, reliable burst heal, mobility has become too free and too available for everyone without even needing to build for it that to not have a proper, reliable burst heal is just a complete hinderance at this point.

Bushido2513

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Things like this are why sorcs need a proper, reliable burst heal, mobility has become too free and too available for everyone without even needing to build for it that to not have a proper, reliable burst heal is just a complete hinderance at this point.

I will say that I think mobility as a whole needs a review because it's just too easy to reach cap without sacrificing that much and that just shouldn't be.

That being said, even with a burst heal you still don't likely win that fight just based on the description and classes involved. You'd just have an easier time but that's about it. Personally I'd rather see a scenario where your pursuers were either as slows as they used to normally be or were fast but then didn't have as much damage.

LittlePinkDot

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

This is why I don't bother slotting streak. It isn't worth the bar slot.
Just use some swift jewelry, maybe ring of the wild hunt.

To each their own but I prefer major expedition with one or two swift with roll dodge n streak for a good evasion kit.

Streak seems to not help much when everybody is fast and can gap close.

Still get minor expedition from hurricane anyway.

This is correct depending on the situation. Like in open field if you and the person have equal speed and reaction times they will have a good chance of catching up to you due to the delay of the game rendering the animation.

I should have added that depending on who is chasing me I'll try to use los, the stun from streak, and elevation in different variations.

These days I try to keep fights near some type of structure or terrain so that I always have the extra option if I need it.

Do you primarily play Cyrodiil or Battlegrounds with your sorc?

I prefer Battlegrounds. I don't have to worry about a 15 min horse simulator just to find some action.
Battlegrounds makes death have little consequence. In a few seconds I'll be back in the action.
So no point in trying to run. If you're going to die, just try to at least take somebody down with you.
On average I get more kills on my sorc than my tanky warden. But my sorc dies many more times than my warden.
So not dying seems to not have much value.

But I agree with turtle bot, I think a burst heal is a better way to go.
Only being good at running away doesn't sound too fun.

Melzo

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I just want to add to this, something I experienced during the last few days of MYM that shows just how absurdly free and available mobility is currently and why streak is just not as strong as it used to be.

On my sorc (my main), I had a plar and a DK chasing me from bleakers to aleswell (it started as a red faction stack chasing me as blues had just pushed bleakers but got repelled by the time I got there, but the DK and plar were the only 2 from that faction stack that were bloodthristy enough to continue the chase beyond the first 100m instead of breaking off to push aleswell farm).

Despite using LoS, rock formations, trees, terrain elevation and the stun from streak to my advantage to slow them down, both of these players on these supposedly slow "protect the house" classes were not only able to keep up with my streaking sorc, but were able to apply constant pressure and CC (fossilize and javelin) the entire length of the chase, enough pressure that had I stopped moving to actually properly engage them in combat, I would have easily been overwhelmed and killed. They also weren't even using mist form either, just simply sprinting and major expedition from RaT.

This is how free and absurd mobility has gotten in the game by now. 2 of the slowest classes in the game are not only able to easily keep up with what is supposed to be the most mobile class in the game, a streaking sorc, but also have the resources available to constantly apply pressure and CC the entire time over what was well over a kilometer of distance travelled through various terrain and obstacles that are supposed to favor the sorcs mobility.

Things like this are why sorcs need a proper, reliable burst heal, mobility has become too free and too available for everyone without even needing to build for it that to not have a proper, reliable burst heal is just a complete hinderance at this point.

The streak is not intended to cross Cyrodiil in a couple of minutes. This skill is designed to either stun and break away from the enemy and perform your own combo, or use a streak as part of a combo to stun after applying a curse or finishing move. And all your arguments that they caught up with you there because now the developers have changed the mist form is nonsense. I can easily build a DK chain based build and add some speed to meet the 180-200 requirement. Any DK could have done this since the beginning of the game. And they didn't need the mist form. If you entered the game to run away from the enemy, you can take the 4th stage of vampirism and the set corresponding to the name of your gameplay.

Streak and mist form are similar skills but they are not the same. There are many similar skills and the situation with them is much worse. For example, the wings of the warden and the acceleration, or finishing the stamina of the NB and finishing off the two-handed weapon. The skills from the two examples are really a problem as they are almost exact copies of each other. And the identity of the sorcerer is unaffected in general, since the sorcerer has all the skills that are relevant to this day. If you want to find out who has identity problems, go to the necromancer. He only has one skill and that is broken.

In fact, you don't use the mist form and don't want others to use it. But in my class there is not much choice. Do you want to ruin the gameplay for everyone else??

StaticWave

Melzo wrote: »

The streak is not intended to cross Cyrodiil in a couple of minutes. This skill is designed to either stun and break away from the enemy and perform your own combo, or use a streak as part of a combo to stun after applying a curse or finishing move. And all your arguments that they caught up with you there because now the developers have changed the mist form is nonsense. I can easily build a DK chain based build and add some speed to meet the 180-200 requirement. Any DK could have done this since the beginning of the game. And they didn't need the mist form. If you entered the game to run away from the enemy, you can take the 4th stage of vampirism and the set corresponding to the name of your gameplay.

No, they couldn't lol. The game didn't have Race Against Time, 3x Swift, or Celerity CP. If you tried to build for a max speed DK before Summerset you would sacrifice a lot of tankiness and still not even move as fast as a stamsorc in a regular build. I'm a strictly openworld PvPer, and I've played before and after Summerset to see the massive surge of uber-mobile builds AFTER Summerset came out. You're dead wrong on this.

Also, the only reason Streak is being used is for the stun. No mag or stamsorc would slot Streak if they had a better stun. BoL is a better defensive ability than Streak by a long shot.

Melzo wrote: »

Streak and mist form are similar skills but they are not the same. There are many similar skills and the situation with them is much worse. For example, the wings of the warden and the acceleration, or finishing the stamina of the NB and finishing off the two-handed weapon. The skills from the two examples are really a problem as they are almost exact copies of each other. And the identity of the sorcerer is unaffected in general, since the sorcerer has all the skills that are relevant to this day. If you want to find out who has identity problems, go to the necromancer. He only has one skill and that is broken.

Nobody is comparing Streak to Mist Form. The correct comparison is Ball of Lightning vs Mist Form, and I've analyzed in my previous comment why Mist Form is better for other classes and Ball of Lightning is better on Sorc.

The identity of a Sorc, both mag and stam, is the ability to get in and out of a fight quickly when they choose to. This is done with either Streak/Ball of Lightning for magsorc, or Streak/Ball of Lightning + fast movement speed for stamsorc.

Movement speed has been given to people for free over the years, and Mist Form has just been reworked to be a copy cat version of Ball of Lightning. These are the 2 main reasons why Sorc identity is lost. You can't just claim Shield or Curse or whatever is the identity of Sorc because Harness/Dampen Ward existed, and most other classes also have a delayed burst. But I could guarantee with you that up until now, nobody could replicate what Streak/Ball of Lightning could do as a defensive skill.

Melzo wrote: »

In fact, you don't use the mist form and don't want others to use it. But in my class there is not much choice. Do you want to ruin the gameplay for everyone else??

Your class has a reliable burst heal. A sorc does not. Should every sorc main ask for your burst heal to be removed too since there isn't much choice for Sorc in terms of healing? Do you see the irony here in your statement?

Your class can still perform well with or without Mist Form. I dare you to say the same about a Sorc not slotting Streak/Ball of Lightning.

Melzo

StaticWave wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

The streak is not intended to cross Cyrodiil in a couple of minutes. This skill is designed to either stun and break away from the enemy and perform your own combo, or use a streak as part of a combo to stun after applying a curse or finishing move. And all your arguments that they caught up with you there because now the developers have changed the mist form is nonsense. I can easily build a DK chain based build and add some speed to meet the 180-200 requirement. Any DK could have done this since the beginning of the game. And they didn't need the mist form. If you entered the game to run away from the enemy, you can take the 4th stage of vampirism and the set corresponding to the name of your gameplay.

No, they couldn't lol. The game didn't have Race Against Time, 3x Swift, or Celerity CP. If you tried to build for a max speed DK before Summerset you would sacrifice a lot of tankiness and still not even move as fast as a stamsorc in a regular build. I'm a strictly openworld PvPer, and I've played before and after Summerset to see the massive surge of uber-mobile builds AFTER Summerset came out. You're dead wrong on this.

Also, the only reason Streak is being used is for the stun. No mag or stamsorc would slot Streak if they had a better stun. BoL is a better defensive ability than Streak by a long shot.

Melzo wrote: »

Streak and mist form are similar skills but they are not the same. There are many similar skills and the situation with them is much worse. For example, the wings of the warden and the acceleration, or finishing the stamina of the NB and finishing off the two-handed weapon. The skills from the two examples are really a problem as they are almost exact copies of each other. And the identity of the sorcerer is unaffected in general, since the sorcerer has all the skills that are relevant to this day. If you want to find out who has identity problems, go to the necromancer. He only has one skill and that is broken.

Nobody is comparing Streak to Mist Form. The correct comparison is Ball of Lightning vs Mist Form, and I've analyzed in my previous comment why Mist Form is better for other classes and Ball of Lightning is better on Sorc.

The identity of a Sorc, both mag and stam, is the ability to get in and out of a fight quickly when they choose to. This is done with either Streak/Ball of Lightning for magsorc, or Streak/Ball of Lightning + fast movement speed for stamsorc.

Movement speed has been given to people for free over the years, and Mist Form has just been reworked to be a copy cat version of Ball of Lightning. These are the 2 main reasons why Sorc identity is lost. You can't just claim Shield or Curse or whatever is the identity of Sorc because Harness/Dampen Ward existed, and most other classes also have a delayed burst. But I could guarantee with you that up until now, nobody could replicate what Streak/Ball of Lightning could do as a defensive skill.

Melzo wrote: »

In fact, you don't use the mist form and don't want others to use it. But in my class there is not much choice. Do you want to ruin the gameplay for everyone else??

Your class has a reliable burst heal. A sorc does not. Should every sorc main ask for your burst heal to be removed too since there isn't much choice for Sorc in terms of healing? Do you see the irony here in your statement?

Your class can still perform well with or without Mist Form. I dare you to say the same about a Sorc not slotting Streak/Ball of Lightning.

And what is the advantage of my necromancer over your sorcerer?? In one skill or what? Seriously?? The sorcerer is designed to have high damage and healing through active combat, but is weak when you go defensive. When I heal I will block and at that moment you will attack me. I spend stamina and take damage. You have a stun that doesn't block. Given that I heal at 6k and my critical heal at 10-12k, there is nothing to envy. I would play without a direct heal, but I only take it for the finishing skills. And mostly because of the templar. Necromancer direct healing is only needed when I'm low on health. Direct Heal is a situational skill that helps get you out of your ass, but you can't spam it endlessly. Spamming a mana shield is much more effective. It gives a stable 10 thousand and you can use it even if you have 100 percent health. The shield works well in attacking gameplay. When you have 80 percent of your health you will activate the shield and vigor and restore health due to critical hits.

You can take a warden and heal with a direct heal. He heals 4-5 thousand. Are you envious?? And if I fight with my necro against him, then he will be healed by 3500-4000. Since I am reducing the healing by 24 percent. Are you jealous of this?? I find it funny because of your stupid arguments. It will be much easier for me to kill you if you use direct healing instead of a mana shield. You are just messing with your own class.

Melzo

You already have a skill that converts stamina into mana. She gives you another 5-6 thousand health. You can't block, but that's the price for a pretty strong skill that seems to be buffed in the next patch. And heals only a little worse than a necromancer.

StaticWave

Melzo wrote: »

And what is the advantage of my necromancer over your sorcerer?? In one skill or what? Seriously?? The sorcerer is designed to have high damage and healing through active combat, but is weak when you go defensive. When I heal I will block and at that moment you will attack me. I spend stamina and take damage. You have a stun that doesn't block. Given that I heal at 6k and my critical heal at 10-12k, there is nothing to envy. I would play without a direct heal, but I only take it for the finishing skills. And mostly because of the templar. Necromancer direct healing is only needed when I'm low on health. Direct Heal is a situational skill that helps get you out of your ass, but you can't spam it endlessly. Spamming a mana shield is much more effective. It gives a stable 10 thousand and you can use it even if you have 100 percent health. The shield works well in attacking gameplay. When you have 80 percent of your health you will activate the shield and vigor and restore health due to critical hits.

You're talking as if Crit Surge procs every second and I can just be offensive 100% of the time lol. Sorc has no heal to bring it out of execute range and that's bad game design. I will trade Crit Surge and Blood Magic for Ghost + Resistant Flesh any time. Feel free to use Surge and Blood Magic on your Necro, you'll quickly see why it's bad outside of a 1v1.

Melzo wrote: »

You can take a warden and heal with a direct heal. He heals 4-5 thousand. Are you envious?? And if I fight with my necro against him, then he will be healed by 3500-4000. Since I am reducing the healing by 24 percent. Are you jealous of this?? I find it funny because of your stupid arguments. It will be much easier for me to kill you if you use direct healing instead of a mana shield. You are just messing with your own class.

Warden is one of the tankiess classes in the game, and Sorc is the squishiest class in the game. There's no debating here. Actually, why don't you hop on a Sorc and 1vX for us. I want to see how great you do if you think Sorc does just fine through active combat.

Please go out there and do a 1v5, record it, and show everyone here how great healing through being offensive is.

StaticWave

Melzo wrote: »

You already have a skill that converts stamina into mana. She gives you another 5-6 thousand health. You can't block, but that's the price for a pretty strong skill that seems to be buffed in the next patch. And heals only a little worse than a necromancer.

Then go ahead and I'll trade Dark Deal for your Resistant Flesh if you think it's so strong lol.

Melzo

StaticWave wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

And what is the advantage of my necromancer over your sorcerer?? In one skill or what? Seriously?? The sorcerer is designed to have high damage and healing through active combat, but is weak when you go defensive. When I heal I will block and at that moment you will attack me. I spend stamina and take damage. You have a stun that doesn't block. Given that I heal at 6k and my critical heal at 10-12k, there is nothing to envy. I would play without a direct heal, but I only take it for the finishing skills. And mostly because of the templar. Necromancer direct healing is only needed when I'm low on health. Direct Heal is a situational skill that helps get you out of your ass, but you can't spam it endlessly. Spamming a mana shield is much more effective. It gives a stable 10 thousand and you can use it even if you have 100 percent health. The shield works well in attacking gameplay. When you have 80 percent of your health you will activate the shield and vigor and restore health due to critical hits.

You're talking as if Crit Surge procs every second and I can just be offensive 100% of the time lol. Sorc has no heal to bring it out of execute range and that's bad game design. I will trade Crit Surge and Blood Magic for Ghost + Resistant Flesh any time. Feel free to use Surge and Blood Magic on your Necro, you'll quickly see why it's bad outside of a 1v1.

Melzo wrote: »

You can take a warden and heal with a direct heal. He heals 4-5 thousand. Are you envious?? And if I fight with my necro against him, then he will be healed by 3500-4000. Since I am reducing the healing by 24 percent. Are you jealous of this?? I find it funny because of your stupid arguments. It will be much easier for me to kill you if you use direct healing instead of a mana shield. You are just messing with your own class.

Warden is one of the tankiess classes in the game, and Sorc is the squishiest class in the game. There's no debating here. Actually, why don't you hop on a Sorc and 1vX for us. I want to see how great you do if you think Sorc does just fine through active combat.

Please go out there and do a 1v5, record it, and show everyone here how great healing through being offensive is.

Maybe sorcerer's mana is not a meta in this game, but don't belittle him. The hybrid sorcerer deals a lot of damage every second and this allows you to implement a healing skill through critical hits. But in the next patch, the sorcerer was given a 5% damage bonus and a 10% bonus crit. Hybrid sorcerers have just insane damage. And although he suffers from weak protection, this is not a reason to give him this. Personally, I can’t take down 30 thousand health to a sorcerer in 5 seconds with my necro. And yet I can't catch up with him.

Ghost and mortal coil are healed at 500 per second. It's 1000 per second. It takes half a minute to fully restore health. If you are playing with two or more then the ghost will heal one random player every two seconds. I don't know what are you jealous of? If the sorcerer uses a dual weapon from a dragonstar, then a dot from them and a dot from three status effects such as poison, fire and bleeding inflicts two or three times more than these two skills restore health ... One button is enough to block all healing. I can see how the whole Cyrodiil was filled with necromancers. Are you not funny yourself??

Sorcerers have quite a lot of different gameplays, but a necromancer can only be made with a bomber with two-handed weapons from the dragonstar arena and a fighter with duals and the same dragonstar arena. Here are two builds and goodbye. Moreover, you can make both builds for any class and they will be more effective than necromancer...

Is the sorcerer in trouble? Where?

Melzo

StaticWave wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

You already have a skill that converts stamina into mana. She gives you another 5-6 thousand health. You can't block, but that's the price for a pretty strong skill that seems to be buffed in the next patch. And heals only a little worse than a necromancer.

Then go ahead and I'll trade Dark Deal for your Resistant Flesh if you think it's so strong lol.

I don't see any argument for this. Trite let's compare two skills that give 6 thousand armor. Who's better? The sorcerer has 15 movement speed and aoE dot damage buff every two seconds. And a necromancer that reduces two skills by 500 mana. And you will use these two skills only once every twenty seconds. Though I'm probably overdoing it as I doubt you'll be using a skeleton archer.

Compare all this stupidity when you have 15 percent speed and good AoE damage. And a necromancer who will have a decrease in the cost of one skill that you will use every 20 seconds.

I can compare most of the skills with each class. And here it is clearly not in favor of the necromancer. Otherwise, everyone would play necromancers

Melzo

Even combining two skills of a skeleton archer necromancer and a skill that gives 6k armor, it will still be worse than one skill of a sorcerer that gives armor.