Of course but I’d rather loss the buffs as a balance than lose the dps numbers when that’s my real problem with my hand and issues I can’t control. I do love the buffs they are great but at least than maybe people would lay off a bit while the dps won’t take a hit ? I’m no game dev so prob a terrible idea just a suggestion.
The buffs are the only reason why this item exists. They are the compensation for the "drawback" that you can not barswap anymore. A drawback that is actually the reason to play it for some players. Empower alone is not enough to justify the item in my opinion.
Pretty ironic statement coming from a person who is trying to defend an item that permanently gives you almost every existing buff, making proper group composition and set coordination redundant.
Pretty ironic statement coming from a person who is trying to defend an item that permanently gives you almost every existing buff, making proper group composition and set coordination redundant.
I don't even need Oakensoul..
As a player who uses an HA build, I, like many others, are the target of various forms of harassmen and only because HA build. After Zenimax nerfs the build, the lives of HA users will become even more difficult. With or without Oakensoul!
isadoraisacat wrote: »Right it’s the play style people don’t like.
I wonder if the new mythic will receive the same hate only time will tell.
isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »These types of players don’t want us. It doesn’t matter what damage we can do even though mine is low ) if they don’t want to play with us.
Players can express their opinions about why certain builds or skills need to be nerfed, and they can express themselves freely. They may even be entirely correct in their assessments. However, your statement was truly outstanding.
Some players will reject those who use HA builds simply because they require less effort to play. What they have forgotten or don't even care is that some players may not have the capability to use complex builds, even if they wanted to.
Right well the thing with me is I can weave and can bar swap I can maintain dots. The issue is a hand issue where I can’t do it for long with out pain I need to literally stop for a minute and it clearly can’t be good dps.
I don’t like weaving I don’t think it fits the elder scrolls world. But I can do it as a skill I just can’t do it for long with my issues. People need to understand many using this are in the same boat.
TheForFeeF wrote: »So, after reading the comments, it seems like your actual issue is that ZoS are "nerfing" storm masters and empower in the next update, thus "nerfing" Oakensoul HA builds? Not actually about the DPS "gatekeeping" for vSS HM + No Death + Speedrun?
isadoraisacat wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »But why should 2 bar players "trainee" harder to outperform an item that just requires pressing one button? If you compare investment to result, it is the HA build that is out of place, hence the popularity, hence the nerf.
You don't have to if you don't wish to. Of course not. Use HA and you will do more DPS, and it will be easier. Focus on mechanics and in-game actions, and leave the complicated thing called "rotation" aside. It will be more enjoyable than tedious.
On the other hand, if you wish to achieve the best possible DPS the game allows, you have to train two bars rotation.
And you just highlighted why ZOS is making the change. Have to understand that all gear/builds have a strong possibility of nerfs. It's going to happen at some point.
I personally have been through 6 character main swaps since I started playing, and I even stopped doing endgame pve content during certian periods, all due to build/class nerfs.
Honestly, be grateful the nerf to empower is only 10%, they could have just as easily dropped it back down to the original pre monster only change.
The nerf is only 10 % now but I bet my life it will drop lower when more elite players still complain about it. And it will be rendered useless. This is also the second time oakensoul has been nerfed and changes were made to make the build less effective.
isadoraisacat wrote: »The point is this is happening becuase a few content creators with experience made videos showing they can get high numbers with these builds.
Don't blame the messenger. The content creators were just the first spark. Content creators do all kinds of weird stuff like soloing vet hardmode dungeons or 4 man vSS etc. But that doesn't mean that anyone can just watch the videos and pull the same stunt. The problem with oakensoul is different, because in that case, it actually did work. Players could just copy the build and nuke trials like vcr+x and vAS+2 much easier and safer than with a traditional build. So the problem was the item, not the content creators (as well as the fact that certain trial mechanics were not working as intended while wearing the ring).
Experienced players could copy that build.
You need to be high level CP and be able to entire at least one vet without being kicked out to get a monster helm.
Low level players aren’t getting these results. So the average first player or casual player is not getting these results. Just as select few.
It’s like saying because some baseball
Player hit a home run everyone else can too.
isadoraisacat wrote: »Why couldn’t the answer be remove the buffs or lower them and just keep empower ? I don’t care about the buffs I use oakensoul for empower.
Removing the buffs would make the item completely useless for harder solo content let alone raids. I'm sure you would notice the difference too.
Of course but I’d rather loss the buffs as a balance than lose the dps numbers when that’s my real problem with my hand and issues I can’t control. I do love the buffs they are great but at least than maybe people would lay off a bit while the dps won’t take a hit ? I’m no game dev so prob a terrible idea just a suggestion.
isadoraisacat wrote: »It does for me as a heavy attack player.
I use it for empower the other buffs are just added bonus. I lived with out those prior can live without now.
squinquargesimus wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »It does for me as a heavy attack player.
I use it for empower the other buffs are just added bonus. I lived with out those prior can live without now.
Your suggestion would screw over a multitude of other players, though, well worked just as much on their Oakensoul builds. I don't think it's right to complain about the DPS nerf, then suggest a far more severe nerf that screws other users just so it doesn't hit you.
Furthermore, I think part of your issue is that you seem to have some misunderstandings about the build. You don't need to do any vet dungeons for it (that doesn't make what happened to you any better, but unfortunately, jerks will always find a way to be jerks). You do need one piece of Slimecraw, but that can easily be obtained from the shoulder vendors, provided you're willing to farm normal dungeon pledges for the keys.
And I guarantee you, your Oakensorc is already capable of soloing most base game dungeons on normal, including Wayrest 1 and Tempest Island. Because I used to solo both those on builds that did significantly less DPS (like... 15K was my absolute best in full parse mode on the basic 3 mil dummy) than you said you have, back in 2017. If you don't want to run Pugs any more, solo those two until you have all the pieces, then reconstruct what you don't got in Divines while farming for only 25 Transmutes a piece, way less than changing the trait.
You can also get 50 transmutes for reaching level 1 at the end of a Cyrodiil campaign, and you can reach that by only repairing keep walls in 30 minutes, no PVP required. If both that and Tribute are no goes, and you can't find friends to run RNDs with, you'll just have to bite in the sour apple and run Pugs. I know that can suck hardcore -- I have severe anxiety, I freak out at just random interactions in passing sometimes -- but there's only so many ways to get transmutes and ZoS has already spread them out over solo/casual, group PVE and PVP activities.
Ragnarok0130 wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »The point is this is happening becuase a few content creators with experience made videos showing they can get high numbers with these builds.
Don't blame the messenger. The content creators were just the first spark. Content creators do all kinds of weird stuff like soloing vet hardmode dungeons or 4 man vSS etc. But that doesn't mean that anyone can just watch the videos and pull the same stunt. The problem with oakensoul is different, because in that case, it actually did work. Players could just copy the build and nuke trials like vcr+x and vAS+2 much easier and safer than with a traditional build. So the problem was the item, not the content creators (as well as the fact that certain trial mechanics were not working as intended while wearing the ring).
Experienced players could copy that build.
You need to be high level CP and be able to entire at least one vet without being kicked out to get a monster helm.
Low level players aren’t getting these results. So the average first player or casual player is not getting these results. Just as select few.
It’s like saying because some baseball
Player hit a home run everyone else can too.
Have you heard of the golden vendor who sells monster helms and shoulders with a rotating stock weekly? And define “low level” players because I’ve seen veteran players on level 20 alts nuking bosses in dungeons which tells it it’s a skill and role competency issue instead of a gearing issue. You can give people perfected gold raid gear and their DPS will still be bottom tier until they learn their class and learn a rotation.
Ragnarok0130 wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Why couldn’t the answer be remove the buffs or lower them and just keep empower ? I don’t care about the buffs I use oakensoul for empower.
Removing the buffs would make the item completely useless for harder solo content let alone raids. I'm sure you would notice the difference too.
Of course but I’d rather loss the buffs as a balance than lose the dps numbers when that’s my real problem with my hand and issues I can’t control. I do love the buffs they are great but at least than maybe people would lay off a bit while the dps won’t take a hit ? I’m no game dev so prob a terrible idea just a suggestion.
The buffs directly contribute to your DPS numbers depending on which buff it is.
- What is the minimum DPS (focusing only on DPS) that any player should have to complete top-tier "Trifecta" (Because, no one likes to spend three days on one trial.)?
- Where did you get information about the minimum requested DPS for completing top-tier content?
- If DPS is not enough and sadly, many players can't have a perfect rotation, it's fair to say: "Sorry dude, but you really need to pay us (top-tier players) for one ride if you wish to achieve that.
- Who will win something because others with 90k don't have enought DPS to complete hardest content? 90k in Dummy but only 40k inside content
Ragnarok0130 wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »The point is this is happening becuase a few content creators with experience made videos showing they can get high numbers with these builds.
Don't blame the messenger. The content creators were just the first spark. Content creators do all kinds of weird stuff like soloing vet hardmode dungeons or 4 man vSS etc. But that doesn't mean that anyone can just watch the videos and pull the same stunt. The problem with oakensoul is different, because in that case, it actually did work. Players could just copy the build and nuke trials like vcr+x and vAS+2 much easier and safer than with a traditional build. So the problem was the item, not the content creators (as well as the fact that certain trial mechanics were not working as intended while wearing the ring).
Experienced players could copy that build.
You need to be high level CP and be able to entire at least one vet without being kicked out to get a monster helm.
Low level players aren’t getting these results. So the average first player or casual player is not getting these results. Just as select few.
It’s like saying because some baseball
Player hit a home run everyone else can too.
Have you heard of the golden vendor who sells monster helms and shoulders with a rotating stock weekly? And define “low level” players because I’ve seen veteran players on level 20 alts nuking bosses in dungeons which tells it it’s a skill and role competency issue instead of a gearing issue. You can give people perfected gold raid gear and their DPS will still be bottom tier until they learn their class and learn a rotation.
isadoraisacat wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »Why couldn’t the answer be remove the buffs or lower them and just keep empower ? I don’t care about the buffs I use oakensoul for empower.
Removing the buffs would make the item completely useless for harder solo content let alone raids. I'm sure you would notice the difference too.
Of course but I’d rather loss the buffs as a balance than lose the dps numbers when that’s my real problem with my hand and issues I can’t control. I do love the buffs they are great but at least than maybe people would lay off a bit while the dps won’t take a hit ? I’m no game dev so prob a terrible idea just a suggestion.
The buffs directly contribute to your DPS numbers depending on which buff it is.
There are tons of heavy attack builds who don’t use oakensoul or it’s buffs. And achieve good results.
isadoraisacat wrote: »It appears that many players have lost their focus on the importance of group cooperation in this game.
This could be attributed to various factors such as:
Personal ambition taking over Am I the only one who can see this? Seriously?
However, it's not just the players who are at fault; Zenimax also have contributed to this issue by not emphasizing the significance of working together as a team.
Pretty ironic statement coming from a person who is trying to defend an item that permanently gives you almost every existing buff, making proper group composition and set coordination redundant.
Why couldn’t the answer be remove the buffs or lower them and just keep empower ? I don’t care about the buffs I use oakensoul for empower.
isadoraisacat wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »These types of players don’t want us. It doesn’t matter what damage we can do even though mine is low ) if they don’t want to play with us.
Players can express their opinions about why certain builds or skills need to be nerfed, and they can express themselves freely. They may even be entirely correct in their assessments. However, your statement was truly outstanding.
Some players will reject those who use HA builds simply because they require less effort to play. What they have forgotten or don't even care is that some players may not have the capability to use complex builds, even if they wanted to.
Right well the thing with me is I can weave and can bar swap I can maintain dots. The issue is a hand issue where I can’t do it for long with out pain I need to literally stop for a minute and it clearly can’t be good dps.
I don’t like weaving I don’t think it fits the elder scrolls world. But I can do it as a skill I just can’t do it for long with my issues. People need to understand many using this are in the same boat.
If it's LA weaving that causes Your hand issue than You can just stop doing it. One light attack once every 10 seconds and good job with the ability rotation is enough to get 110k+ parses which is more than enough to clear everything.
If it's LA weaving that causes Your hand issue than You can just stop doing it. One light attack once every 10 seconds and good job with the ability rotation is enough to get 110k+ parses which is more than enough to clear everything.
It's getting really late for me, and today was not an easy day at all. Because of all of this, maybe I misunderstood you, but how did you parse 110k by casting 1 LA every 10 seconds?
isadoraisacat wrote: »TheForFeeF wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »TheForFeeF wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »TheForFeeF wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »
[snip]I’ve said my opinion you have said yours let’s agree to disagree. It’s getting nowhere.
The problem is that you're just constantly blaming someone else. A "nerf" is happening and you're saying "it is because the elite players are crying out about it". Fun fact about it, they won't listen to us about something like this.
You're not doing your own testing at all. You're just looking at Patch Notes, seeing a smaller number and going "omg they are nerfing it to oblivion", when, in fact, nothing is really happening to it at all. On top of this, ZoS have clearly stated why they are doing what they are doing, and yet you still chose to bash "elite" players because it fits with your narrative of "elite players are gatekeeping me from doing trifectas".
Then, when someone actually puts explanations to you, in a nice way may I add, you chose to insult rather than maybe take a step back and understand the situation better.
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]isadoraisacat wrote: »
Second of all I don’t even. Know what a “trifecta” even really is I don’t care about trials I will never do one I don’t care.
The point is this nerf is the second nerf and don’t lie and say these “elite players” didn’t ask for this because they do you can look all over here and Reddit. You can also see how toxic and insulting these types can be.
I don’t need to be in their “trifecta” I’m a solo player. What I want is to be left alone and for these people to stop doing things that affect low level players who will never engage with these elite groups and have any affect on them. The point is this is happening becuase a few content creators with experience made videos showing they can get high numbers with these builds.
Except the difference is these players are already super experience 2 bar LA players.
The average player using this build is using it to enjoy the game on their own better, and maybe finally start doing some dungeons. But these high end groups don’t even want heavy attack players in them and they gate keep who is in them so not sure why you are worried about it.
If you want to presume everyone who is crying about this is an elite player, go ahead. However, you're just taking someones word over the internet without any proof.
The only complaints I have heard, which are completely valid, about the Oakensoul HA builds is that it is devaluing Dungeon and Trial trifectas, which is true. Not everyone should be able to achieve trifectas. All you need to do is got to ESOlogs and look at the rankings for vAS+2. You will see pages and pages for OakenSorcs.
I should explain that a trifecta is an achievement in the game, which holds a lot of value to players. Both DLC Dungeons and Trials have it. In order to achieve them, you need to complete them on the Hard Mode, whilst there being no group deaths, within a certain time limit (can be anywhere from 20-45 minutes, depending on the content).
Fun fact for you, ESO is an Massively Multiplayer Online game, not a solo-single player game. This means that balancing needs to happen in order for the game to stay healthy. It isn't like a Single Player game where, if something is overpowered and you can cheese content with it, you can just chose to ignore it.
EDIT: Since I was typing this as @ZOS_Icy was editing, my quote is unedited, so I have edited it to keep it in line
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]
If you find this “polite” towards those with disabilities, than maybe you are the problem.
Rkindaleft wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »TheForFeeF wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »TheForFeeF wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »TheForFeeF wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »
[snip]I’ve said my opinion you have said yours let’s agree to disagree. It’s getting nowhere.
The problem is that you're just constantly blaming someone else. A "nerf" is happening and you're saying "it is because the elite players are crying out about it". Fun fact about it, they won't listen to us about something like this.
You're not doing your own testing at all. You're just looking at Patch Notes, seeing a smaller number and going "omg they are nerfing it to oblivion", when, in fact, nothing is really happening to it at all. On top of this, ZoS have clearly stated why they are doing what they are doing, and yet you still chose to bash "elite" players because it fits with your narrative of "elite players are gatekeeping me from doing trifectas".
Then, when someone actually puts explanations to you, in a nice way may I add, you chose to insult rather than maybe take a step back and understand the situation better.
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]isadoraisacat wrote: »
Second of all I don’t even. Know what a “trifecta” even really is I don’t care about trials I will never do one I don’t care.
The point is this nerf is the second nerf and don’t lie and say these “elite players” didn’t ask for this because they do you can look all over here and Reddit. You can also see how toxic and insulting these types can be.
I don’t need to be in their “trifecta” I’m a solo player. What I want is to be left alone and for these people to stop doing things that affect low level players who will never engage with these elite groups and have any affect on them. The point is this is happening becuase a few content creators with experience made videos showing they can get high numbers with these builds.
Except the difference is these players are already super experience 2 bar LA players.
The average player using this build is using it to enjoy the game on their own better, and maybe finally start doing some dungeons. But these high end groups don’t even want heavy attack players in them and they gate keep who is in them so not sure why you are worried about it.
If you want to presume everyone who is crying about this is an elite player, go ahead. However, you're just taking someones word over the internet without any proof.
The only complaints I have heard, which are completely valid, about the Oakensoul HA builds is that it is devaluing Dungeon and Trial trifectas, which is true. Not everyone should be able to achieve trifectas. All you need to do is got to ESOlogs and look at the rankings for vAS+2. You will see pages and pages for OakenSorcs.
I should explain that a trifecta is an achievement in the game, which holds a lot of value to players. Both DLC Dungeons and Trials have it. In order to achieve them, you need to complete them on the Hard Mode, whilst there being no group deaths, within a certain time limit (can be anywhere from 20-45 minutes, depending on the content).
Fun fact for you, ESO is an Massively Multiplayer Online game, not a solo-single player game. This means that balancing needs to happen in order for the game to stay healthy. It isn't like a Single Player game where, if something is overpowered and you can cheese content with it, you can just chose to ignore it.
EDIT: Since I was typing this as @ZOS_Icy was editing, my quote is unedited, so I have edited it to keep it in line
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]
If you find this “polite” towards those with disabilities, than maybe you are the problem.
This isn't a direct response to you but I saw the photos and thought it was an important point to bring to the discussion. IT'S NOT ABOUT GATEKEEPING AND FOR THE PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT IT, IT'S NEVER ABOUT THE INACCESSIBILITY OF DPS TO DISABLED PEOPLE.
HA builds in general are a fantastic accessibility option for people who can't/won't run other options and no one wants to take away your enjoyment of the game - but the build does too much DPS for how easy it is to play, flat out. ZOS realised this, hence why it got nerfed.
I know you said you're a solo/casual player so you probably won't do this but all you need to do is open esologs.com and pick any, I mean, any trial in the last month. You can look at the logs and the equipment and you'll see that over half of all DPS for every other trial and like 90% of the people running vAS are Oakensorc users. Are they using the build for an accessibility option, or are they using it because the build is extremely strong?
I play on PS5 and there's like a thousand new vAS trifectas in the last 2 months alone and basically 95% of them were done on the Oakensorc build. If that build didn't exist then that number would be like 10% of what it is now. Having high dps whilst being extremely tanky (30k health with full undaunted passives, 25k resists and can be fully ranged), with a couple button rotation is too much for how little effort it actually takes to do, methinks.
Rkindaleft wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »TheForFeeF wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »TheForFeeF wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »TheForFeeF wrote: »isadoraisacat wrote: »
[snip]I’ve said my opinion you have said yours let’s agree to disagree. It’s getting nowhere.
The problem is that you're just constantly blaming someone else. A "nerf" is happening and you're saying "it is because the elite players are crying out about it". Fun fact about it, they won't listen to us about something like this.
You're not doing your own testing at all. You're just looking at Patch Notes, seeing a smaller number and going "omg they are nerfing it to oblivion", when, in fact, nothing is really happening to it at all. On top of this, ZoS have clearly stated why they are doing what they are doing, and yet you still chose to bash "elite" players because it fits with your narrative of "elite players are gatekeeping me from doing trifectas".
Then, when someone actually puts explanations to you, in a nice way may I add, you chose to insult rather than maybe take a step back and understand the situation better.
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]isadoraisacat wrote: »
Second of all I don’t even. Know what a “trifecta” even really is I don’t care about trials I will never do one I don’t care.
The point is this nerf is the second nerf and don’t lie and say these “elite players” didn’t ask for this because they do you can look all over here and Reddit. You can also see how toxic and insulting these types can be.
I don’t need to be in their “trifecta” I’m a solo player. What I want is to be left alone and for these people to stop doing things that affect low level players who will never engage with these elite groups and have any affect on them. The point is this is happening becuase a few content creators with experience made videos showing they can get high numbers with these builds.
Except the difference is these players are already super experience 2 bar LA players.
The average player using this build is using it to enjoy the game on their own better, and maybe finally start doing some dungeons. But these high end groups don’t even want heavy attack players in them and they gate keep who is in them so not sure why you are worried about it.
If you want to presume everyone who is crying about this is an elite player, go ahead. However, you're just taking someones word over the internet without any proof.
The only complaints I have heard, which are completely valid, about the Oakensoul HA builds is that it is devaluing Dungeon and Trial trifectas, which is true. Not everyone should be able to achieve trifectas. All you need to do is got to ESOlogs and look at the rankings for vAS+2. You will see pages and pages for OakenSorcs.
I should explain that a trifecta is an achievement in the game, which holds a lot of value to players. Both DLC Dungeons and Trials have it. In order to achieve them, you need to complete them on the Hard Mode, whilst there being no group deaths, within a certain time limit (can be anywhere from 20-45 minutes, depending on the content).
Fun fact for you, ESO is an Massively Multiplayer Online game, not a solo-single player game. This means that balancing needs to happen in order for the game to stay healthy. It isn't like a Single Player game where, if something is overpowered and you can cheese content with it, you can just chose to ignore it.
EDIT: Since I was typing this as @ZOS_Icy was editing, my quote is unedited, so I have edited it to keep it in line
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]
If you find this “polite” towards those with disabilities, than maybe you are the problem.
This isn't a direct response to you but I saw the photos and thought it was an important point to bring to the discussion. IT'S NOT ABOUT GATEKEEPING AND FOR THE PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT IT, IT'S NEVER ABOUT THE INACCESSIBILITY OF DPS TO DISABLED PEOPLE.
HA builds in general are a fantastic accessibility option for people who can't/won't run other options and no one wants to take away your enjoyment of the game - but the build does too much DPS for how easy it is to play, flat out. ZOS realised this, hence why it got nerfed.
I know you said you're a solo/casual player so you probably won't do this but all you need to do is open esologs.com and pick any, I mean, any trial in the last month. You can look at the logs and the equipment and you'll see that over half of all DPS for every other trial and like 90% of the people running vAS are Oakensorc users. Are they using the build for an accessibility option, or are they using it because the build is extremely strong?
I play on PS5 and there's like a thousand new vAS trifectas in the last 2 months alone and basically 95% of them were done on the Oakensorc build. If that build didn't exist then that number would be like 10% of what it is now. Having high dps whilst being extremely tanky (30k health with full undaunted passives, 25k resists and can be fully ranged), with a couple button rotation is too much for how little effort it actually takes to do, methinks.
JamesForums wrote: »KiltMaster wrote: »Same thing, different thread. Geez.
[snip]
We understand you are upset about the changes. It literally happens every major update. Some times you get a nerf and sometimes you get a buff. You have to adapt or move on.
The amount of censoring on an almost identical (now closed) thread was unbelievable. Baiting on the forums is a disservice to the those of us trying to be productive.
[snip]
That is not fair at all. I really wish to know how I (or we) can make this:isadoraisacat wrote: »He flat out seems to be ignoring help.
Can you please help me (or us) and provide all the details about it?If it's LA weaving that causes Your hand issue than You can just stop doing it. One light attack once every 10 seconds and good job with the ability rotation is enough to get 110k+ parses which is more than enough to clear everything.