TheForFeeF wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

TheForFeeF wrote: »

So, after reading the comments, it seems like your actual issue is that ZoS are "nerfing" storm masters and empower in the next update, thus "nerfing" Oakensoul HA builds? Not actually about the DPS "gatekeeping" for vSS HM + No Death + Speedrun?

It's all about that. After patch 38 and the nerfs, can HA players still do this? We will see...

Please go to the PTS and test. You're either just listening to scaremongering or doing the scaremongering yourself.

On live, right now, without CritRNG-farming, the OakenSorc will do ~95k DPS. This is with ~97% uptime for Storm Masters.

On PTS (which is bugged with the Medium Armour Passives), the OakenSorc will do ~85k DPS. This is with ~92% uptime for Storm Masters. The DPS will likely go up about 5-7k when the bug is fixed.

The sources for these numbers are me because I have done many tests on the PTS over the past week because I am sick and tired of all the "omg HA builds are dead" *** being spread around the community.

It is just receiving a "flick to the balls". The nerf is barely anything. Whatever the OakenSorc could do before, it will be able to do again.

As long as OakenSorc can parse AT LEAST 70k on a Trial Dummy, it will be strong enough to do all trifecas in the game.

EDIT: Just to reply to your comment "they like LA weaving because they can't fix it". Actually, they did fix it, but the community backlashed over it so they removed the fix.

They are also making a mythic for people who just want to use skills, and no light or heavy attacks next patch!

Tradewind wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ZOS can't fix it...and they aren't trying to. Quite the opposite.

-They tried...

VaranisArano wrote: »

ZOS isn't nerfing HA builds because they are weak. ZOS is nerfing them because they were getting too strong compared to the 2-bar builds and game mechanics that ZOS really views as engaging.

HA builds are not better. (i will not repeat myself again)

Dude don’t even waste your time.
It’s clear who is catered too around here and it ain’t us.

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ZOS can't fix it...and they aren't trying to. Quite the opposite.

-They tried...

VaranisArano wrote: »

ZOS isn't nerfing HA builds because they are weak. ZOS is nerfing them because they were getting too strong compared to the 2-bar builds and game mechanics that ZOS really views as engaging.

HA builds are not better. (i will not repeat myself again)

Dude don’t even waste your time.
It’s clear who is catered too around here and it ain’t us.

Yes it's very clear devs are catering to balance.

isadoraisacat wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

But why should 2 bar players "trainee" harder to outperform an item that just requires pressing one button? If you compare investment to result, it is the HA build that is out of place, hence the popularity, hence the nerf.

You don't have to if you don't wish to. Of course not. Use HA and you will do more DPS, and it will be easier. Focus on mechanics and in-game actions, and leave the complicated thing called "rotation" aside. It will be more enjoyable than tedious.


On the other hand, if you wish to achieve the best possible DPS the game allows, you have to train two bars rotation.

And you just highlighted why ZOS is making the change. Have to understand that all gear/builds have a strong possibility of nerfs. It's going to happen at some point.

I personally have been through 6 character main swaps since I started playing, and I even stopped doing endgame pve content during certian periods, all due to build/class nerfs.

Honestly, be grateful the nerf to empower is only 10%, they could have just as easily dropped it back down to the original pre monster only change.

The nerf is only 10 % now but I bet my life it will drop lower when more elite players still complain about it. And it will be rendered useless. This is also the second time oakensoul has been nerfed and changes were made to make the build less effective.

I've said in to You in other thread I will say it also here.

Accept the fact that setup You are using is overperforming when it's finished. Many people already explained You this with details. Even devs themselves explained it in the comment about empower nerf.

You really should be happy ZoS is nerfing oakensoul multiple times in small steps instead of doing thing known to them which is striking something once with nerf so hard it goes from usefull to completly useless within one patch. They are really gentle this time when they're touching HA playstyle because they know many less skilled individuals heavily relies on it so this is why they are doing it carefully and with smaller steps. You would be happier if they would just strike it once with hard nerf? I doubt that.

Galeriano wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

But why should 2 bar players "trainee" harder to outperform an item that just requires pressing one button? If you compare investment to result, it is the HA build that is out of place, hence the popularity, hence the nerf.

You don't have to if you don't wish to. Of course not. Use HA and you will do more DPS, and it will be easier. Focus on mechanics and in-game actions, and leave the complicated thing called "rotation" aside. It will be more enjoyable than tedious.


On the other hand, if you wish to achieve the best possible DPS the game allows, you have to train two bars rotation.

And you just highlighted why ZOS is making the change. Have to understand that all gear/builds have a strong possibility of nerfs. It's going to happen at some point.

I personally have been through 6 character main swaps since I started playing, and I even stopped doing endgame pve content during certian periods, all due to build/class nerfs.

Honestly, be grateful the nerf to empower is only 10%, they could have just as easily dropped it back down to the original pre monster only change.

The nerf is only 10 % now but I bet my life it will drop lower when more elite players still complain about it. And it will be rendered useless. This is also the second time oakensoul has been nerfed and changes were made to make the build less effective.

I've said in to You in other thread I will say it also here.

Accept the fact that setup You are using is overperforming when it's finished. Many people already explained You this with details. Even devs themselves explained it in the comment about empower nerf.

You really should be happy ZoS is nerfing oakensoul multiple times in small steps instead of doing thing known to them which is striking something once with nerf so hard it goes from usefull to completly useless within one patch. They are really gentle this time when they're touching HA playstyle because they know many less skilled individuals heavily relies on it so this is why they are doing it carefully and with smaller steps. You would be happier if they would just strike it once with hard nerf? I doubt that.

[snip] I’ve said my opinion you have said yours let’s agree to disagree. It’s getting nowhere.

[edited for baiting]

TheForFeeF wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

But why should 2 bar players "trainee" harder to outperform an item that just requires pressing one button? If you compare investment to result, it is the HA build that is out of place, hence the popularity, hence the nerf.

You don't have to if you don't wish to. Of course not. Use HA and you will do more DPS, and it will be easier. Focus on mechanics and in-game actions, and leave the complicated thing called "rotation" aside. It will be more enjoyable than tedious.


On the other hand, if you wish to achieve the best possible DPS the game allows, you have to train two bars rotation.

And you just highlighted why ZOS is making the change. Have to understand that all gear/builds have a strong possibility of nerfs. It's going to happen at some point.

I personally have been through 6 character main swaps since I started playing, and I even stopped doing endgame pve content during certian periods, all due to build/class nerfs.

Honestly, be grateful the nerf to empower is only 10%, they could have just as easily dropped it back down to the original pre monster only change.

The nerf is only 10 % now but I bet my life it will drop lower when more elite players still complain about it. And it will be rendered useless. This is also the second time oakensoul has been nerfed and changes were made to make the build less effective.

I've said in to You in other thread I will say it also here.

Accept the fact that setup You are using is overperforming when it's finished. Many people already explained You this with details. Even devs themselves explained it in the comment about empower nerf.

You really should be happy ZoS is nerfing oakensoul multiple times in small steps instead of doing thing known to them which is striking something once with nerf so hard it goes from usefull to completly useless within one patch. They are really gentle this time when they're touching HA playstyle because they know many less skilled individuals heavily relies on it so this is why they are doing it carefully and with smaller steps. You would be happier if they would just strike it once with hard nerf? I doubt that.

[snip] I’ve said my opinion you have said yours let’s agree to disagree. It’s getting nowhere.

The problem is that you're just constantly blaming someone else. A "nerf" is happening and you're saying "it is because the elite players are crying out about it". Fun fact about it, they won't listen to us about something like this.

You're not doing your own testing at all. You're just looking at Patch Notes, seeing a smaller number and going "omg they are nerfing it to oblivion", when, in fact, nothing is really happening to it at all. On top of this, ZoS have clearly stated why they are doing what they are doing, and yet you still chose to bash "elite" players because it fits with your narrative of "elite players are gatekeeping me from doing trifectas".

Then, when someone actually puts explanations to you, in a nice way may I add, you chose to insult rather than maybe take a step back and understand the situation better.

Second of all I don’t even. Know what a “trifecta” even really is I don’t care about trials I will never do one I don’t care.

The point is this nerf is the second nerf and don’t lie and say these “elite players” didn’t ask for this because they do you can look all over here and Reddit. You can also see how toxic and insulting these types can be.

I don’t need to be in their “trifecta” I’m a solo player. What I want is to be left alone and for these people to stop doing things that affect low level players who will never engage with these elite groups and have any affect on them. The point is this is happening becuase a few content creators with experience made videos showing they can get high numbers with these builds.

Except the difference is these players are already super experience 2 bar LA players.

The average player using this build is using it to enjoy the game on their own better, and maybe finally start doing some dungeons. But these high end groups don’t even want heavy attack players in them and they gate keep who is in them so not sure why you are worried about it.

[edited to remove quote]

TheForFeeF wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

TheForFeeF wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

TheForFeeF wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

[snip]I’ve said my opinion you have said yours let’s agree to disagree. It’s getting nowhere.

The problem is that you're just constantly blaming someone else. A "nerf" is happening and you're saying "it is because the elite players are crying out about it". Fun fact about it, they won't listen to us about something like this.

You're not doing your own testing at all. You're just looking at Patch Notes, seeing a smaller number and going "omg they are nerfing it to oblivion", when, in fact, nothing is really happening to it at all. On top of this, ZoS have clearly stated why they are doing what they are doing, and yet you still chose to bash "elite" players because it fits with your narrative of "elite players are gatekeeping me from doing trifectas".

Then, when someone actually puts explanations to you, in a nice way may I add, you chose to insult rather than maybe take a step back and understand the situation better.

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Second of all I don’t even. Know what a “trifecta” even really is I don’t care about trials I will never do one I don’t care.

The point is this nerf is the second nerf and don’t lie and say these “elite players” didn’t ask for this because they do you can look all over here and Reddit. You can also see how toxic and insulting these types can be.

I don’t need to be in their “trifecta” I’m a solo player. What I want is to be left alone and for these people to stop doing things that affect low level players who will never engage with these elite groups and have any affect on them. The point is this is happening becuase a few content creators with experience made videos showing they can get high numbers with these builds.

Except the difference is these players are already super experience 2 bar LA players.

The average player using this build is using it to enjoy the game on their own better, and maybe finally start doing some dungeons. But these high end groups don’t even want heavy attack players in them and they gate keep who is in them so not sure why you are worried about it.

If you want to presume everyone who is crying about this is an elite player, go ahead. However, you're just taking someones word over the internet without any proof.

The only complaints I have heard, which are completely valid, about the Oakensoul HA builds is that it is devaluing Dungeon and Trial trifectas, which is true. Not everyone should be able to achieve trifectas. All you need to do is got to ESOlogs and look at the rankings for vAS+2. You will see pages and pages for OakenSorcs.

I should explain that a trifecta is an achievement in the game, which holds a lot of value to players. Both DLC Dungeons and Trials have it. In order to achieve them, you need to complete them on the Hard Mode, whilst there being no group deaths, within a certain time limit (can be anywhere from 20-45 minutes, depending on the content).

Fun fact for you, ESO is an Massively Multiplayer Online game, not a solo-single player game. This means that balancing needs to happen in order for the game to stay healthy. It isn't like a Single Player game where, if something is overpowered and you can cheese content with it, you can just chose to ignore it.

EDIT: Since I was typing this as @ZOS_Icy was editing, my quote is unedited, so I have edited it to keep it in line

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

If you find this “polite” towards those with disabilities, than maybe you are the problem.

Soarora wrote: »

@isadoraisacat if you’re a casual solo player the nerfs won’t even effect you at all. My main does less DPS than a HA build and does overland fine. I’ve done overland on a tank fine. I’ve done dungeons with people with little DPS. As long as DPS checks are being met I don’t care that it takes long as long as people are having fun. The point of the nerfs is for game health the ceiling of HA should not be performing at the level that it is.

The real question is… why has a bug that was never fixed become the only style of game play?

Ask around Google it. A mass reason why many leave this game or don’t stick with it is the combat.

The style is not fun. It’s closer to guitar hero than an elder scrolls game. Many people aren’t happy with the combat save for a few elite players who like click click pew pew.


Changes need to be made to make the game more fun. There can’t be just one style of play especially one based on a bug that should have been patched out from the jump.

And no I worked my ass off with my normal build
To hit around 18-20k (depending on pain meds) to push my dps without this build and one hand that has almost zero feeling due to a severed nerve from a machine accident that never healed right. And the rest severe carpal tunnel.

I already practiced a rotation I can bar swap
I can weave. I don’t like it and it causes me pain.

It’s not like I never learned. This build allows me to enjoy more of the game in a feasible way.

Again my goals are to do dungeons / vet dungeons and solo arenas on the hardest possible mode and solo world bosses.

With my prior build I was getting usually 15k sometimes again if I coukd push my hands harder I could hit 18-20k but it’s all the pauses to stop
For pain I can’t keep
Doing it consistently. I wasn’t strong enough to do much dungeons because I couldn’t keep
Playing I had to stop clicking.
For a world boss same thing.

I don’t think people get different people have severe injuries which lead to disabilities.

I worked as a press operator / set up punch operator meaning I set up all the dies and operated the machines as well as the part time machinist of the shop along with another guy.


When setting up a machine my hand was crushed inside the machine and I was impaled with 316 steal which severed a nerve and I have almost no feeling in that hand. On top of carpul
Tunnel from repetitive injury of working pressing a machine button over and over for 8 hours a day for years.

People need to step back and maybe try to sit in someone else’s shoes even for a second.

thorwyn wrote: »

The point is this is happening becuase a few content creators with experience made videos showing they can get high numbers with these builds.

Don't blame the messenger. The content creators were just the first spark. Content creators do all kinds of weird stuff like soloing vet hardmode dungeons or 4 man vSS etc. But that doesn't mean that anyone can just watch the videos and pull the same stunt. The problem with oakensoul is different, because in that case, it actually did work. Players could just copy the build and nuke trials like vcr+x and vAS+2 much easier and safer than with a traditional build. So the problem was the item, not the content creators (as well as the fact that certain trial mechanics were not working as intended while wearing the ring).

Experienced players could copy that build.
You need to be high level CP and be able to entire at least one vet without being kicked out to get a monster helm.

Low level players aren’t getting these results. So the average first player or casual player is not getting these results. Just as select few.
It’s like saying because some baseball
Player hit a home run everyone else can too.

Soarora wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

@isadoraisacat if you’re a casual solo player the nerfs won’t even effect you at all. My main does less DPS than a HA build and does overland fine. I’ve done overland on a tank fine. I’ve done dungeons with people with little DPS. As long as DPS checks are being met I don’t care that it takes long as long as people are having fun. The point of the nerfs is for game health the ceiling of HA should not be performing at the level that it is.

The real question is… why has a bug that was never fixed become the only style of game play?

Ask around Google it. A mass reason why many leave this game or don’t stick with it is the combat.

The style is not fun. It’s closer to guitar hero than an elder scrolls game. Many people aren’t happy with the combat save for a few elite players who like click click pew pew.


Changes need to be made to make the game more fun. There can’t be just one style of play especially one based on a bug that should have been patched out from the jump.

And no I worked my ass off with my normal build
To hit around 18-20k (depending on pain meds) to push my dps without this build and one hand that has almost zero feeling due to a severed nerve from a machine accident that never healed right. And the rest severe carpal tunnel.

I already practiced a rotation I can bar swap
I can weave. I don’t like it and it causes me pain.

It’s not like I never learned. This build allows me to enjoy more of the game in a feasible way.

Again my goals are to do dungeons / vet dungeons and solo arenas on the hardest possible mode and solo world bosses.

With my prior build I was getting usually 15k sometimes again if I coukd push my hands harder I could hit 18-20k but it’s all the pauses to stop
For pain I can’t keep
Doing it consistently. I wasn’t strong enough to do much dungeons because I couldn’t keep
Playing I had to stop clicking.
For a world boss same thing.

I don’t think people get different people have severe injuries which lead to disabilities.

I worked as a press operator / set up punch operator meaning I set up all the dies and operated the machines as well as the part time machinist of the shop along with another guy.


When setting up a machine my hand was crushed inside the machine and I was impaled with 316 steal which severed a nerve and I have almost no feeling in that hand. On top of carpul
Tunnel from repetitive injury of working pressing a machine button over and over for 8 hours a day for years.

People need to step back and maybe try to sit in someone else’s shoes even for a second.

18-20k based on what dummy or content? You see, I’m not against people having the option to not weave. I really do hope this new amulet mythic stays viable, I’ve been using it on PTS and it’s nice. I don’t think it’s healthy for anyone to weave for hours straight even if they have no current injury, let alone those who do. Buff timers and DoTs were increased so that rotations don’t have to be so fast. I fully support these changes, those who are disabled and those who are not benefit the same way from these. The problem with HA is that it’s got 100% uptimes on several buffs (including those traditional DPS do not get), it has strong healing with matriarch if a sorc, and it’s only a few buttons. It’s MUCH easier than a traditional build but is competing at the same level (trifecta level, including Rockgrove trifecta. So the only missing one is Dreadsail Reef trifecta). That’s the problem. It’s nothing about wanting to harm disabled people and everything to do with the difficulty compared to its ceiling. And I do genuinely hope this new no-LA/HA mythic is good. Because I think a build with that mythic is much closer in difficulty to a traditional build compared to a HA build and hopefully won’t bring as much pain as a traditional build does.

Edit: Also, HA isn’t being destroyed. The ceiling of it just needs to be knocked down a bit. You can still use it for the things you’re wanting to use it for.

I only test on the normal dummy my old build the 3 mill one. Because I focus mostly on non group stuff.

I did the trial dummy with my current ha set up and I got 60k which isn’t even a lot … and clearly not threat to the high end players.