Bastion Nymic Daily.... Who is the intended audience for this?

BlueRaven

Pelanora wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

If you can't do it, don't do it?

Some customer/ user testing might have been a good idea, but there are guilds who form groups who go do stuff together?

Harrowstorms are so three years ago.

My guilds have WB runs and the like, but that is once per week, not a daily guild activity. And not something this structured. No one can jump in halfway through. Or leave and finish it later.
And are guilds going to form a daily activity that requires the newest chapter anyway?
.

This is exactly what happens in my guild, people get together and run content together that they want to run, together. They don't need guild leaders to organise it for them.

I think you misunderstand. Our WB runs are an organized guild activity.
Twice a day (a Morning and evening run), once a week. There is no sign up. Just be online when we group up. There is also no limit (and thanks to zos’s limit of 12 people per group) many times we have multiple groups going.

There is a guild leader who directs everybody across multiple random zones.

But this daily is limited to just four people, it just does not fit well into a guild activity. And that is the biggest hurdle. This is a daily aimed at people who can make their own groups, or have “solo vet level dungeon” builds.

What is more, zos put a ton of furniture rewards behind it, and a ToT deck as well. In a way it is a daily that is kind of mean spirited towards casual players. And to put an activity that is so exclusionary and label it as a “world event” is just misleading and weird.

I think they should just make this a dungeon, put the daily quest giver inside it, and remove the overland parts of it.
Also remove the ToT elements, and the “world event” label. And also make it queue-able through the dungeon finder.

James-Wayne

I think these will be ok for the first month or so but once the population leaves after the Chapter launch (and they will) then they will be nor impossible to do for most people or they are such a large grind for little reward past a set item that there is no bother.

Vvephriel

my only qualm with these is that for the big Chapter achievement that grants the Nix-Ox mount, you are required to complete the Bastion Nymic daily 30 times

I would gladly not worry about it otherwise, but I feel pressured to try to get this cleared each day because there might not be as many people doing them in the future, and I really want the mount

ESO_Nightingale

Omg i can't solo all of the content in overland [snip] that's awful. I'll have to, i dunno, play with other players in an mmo

[edited for avoiding profanity filter]

Ragnarok0130

SilverBride wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

I'm worried that if Bastion Nymic fails, any hope for a harder solo experience for questing will be gone because of "We tried with Bastion Nymic, but it wasn't popular enough"

It's funny, I was thinking something similar. It almost feels like a trap - of course I could be wrong, but I don't see *this* implementation of harder overland being very popular at all, and it could very-well result in that outcome.

I think it's an honest attempt to bring more difficulty options and to give players a reason to visit all the zones again.

If it's not popular it could be an indicator that not many are wanting more difficulty, but it could also be because of how time consuming it is and having to group.

I just don't think it's going to work for the reasons it was intended.

I don’t think it’ll work for the same reason the original Craglorn didn’t work, it forces grouping. People who want a more difficult overland don’t want to be forced to group for it, they want a more difficult solo experience. We already have difficult group content so this implementation is either short sighted or illustrates that ZoS doesn’t understand the community’s requests IMO.

FabresFour

BlueRaven wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

How am I supposed to do this daily every day?

Maybe you don't, if you don't want to. Just because the quest resets after a day doesn't mean you have to do it everyday you log-in.

BlueRaven wrote: »

I don't have a consistent log in time, neither does anyone I know. Is their going to be a group finder for an overland daily?

Ask people in zone chat, same way you would if you needed help with any other harder overland content, like world bosses or some public dungeons.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Also with other dailies people want to get them done ASAP.

And have you considered that dailies you can finish so quickly and effortlessly are not a good thing?

This is effectively killing six (plus?) world bosses as a daily. How popular do you think that will be? They had a daily that was to kill three dragons at one time, and they changed that to one, because no one was doing it if it required three.

Edit: Meant harrowstorms not dragons. Sorry.

That's not quite how it works. The more people you have in your party, the faster the quest is done.

For example: If you have two players in your party, and they both get the seeker's loot, it will count 2 herald ichor for both of them. This means that if you are in 4 players, you only need to kill 2 heralds. (4 ichor per herald).

If one of the players opens the portal, all players can access that portal and the quest will automatically update for all players.

Foxtrot39

Hey at least like old fashioned MMO you gonna need back up to kill a boss instead of sneezing in their direction 5 times

FabresFour

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

With that being said, we do recognize a lot of people want increased overland difficulty and the new world events (Bastion Nymics) that are instanced for up to 4 players in Necrom is one of our answers to that.

https://eso-u.com/articles/eso_developer_ama__las_vegas_global_reveal_2023

If indeed this is meant to be done in a 4 man group, but there is no group finder or a quick automated way to group fast with 4 random players, and it is an overland content and it is done at a cost of A DAILY QUEST - then it is handled really poorly.

Anyway, how hard it is exactly ? Compared to other group content - it is more like soloing a base game dungeon or dlc dungeon or trial ?

Because if it is not soloable, then all it is doing is gating content really.

Disclaimer - I have not tried it yet, as I don't have PTS installed yet, but from what it sounds like it is not about difficulty, but rather about an artificial need to be grouped with other players. nMA or vMA or the other solo arena is all about difficulty & challenging content.

Also... if it is harder, then do I get better rewards ? Because if it is harder then we should get better rewards...

Well, I was able to solo, with a companion by my side. It's difficult, but not exactly impossible. Reminds me of a normal dlc dungeon, but without group mechanics (requiring more than one player).

fall0athboy

I'm annoyed that all they really did was just change the amount of ichor needed.

Great, ZOS, that's one of the issues and also it's still not enough.

ajkb78

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Sounds like more content that will be dead after the initial shine wears off. The early adopters of Necrom will likely partake at first, complete the challenge and move on. Future players will beg for help, only to be told to git good, find a group, it's EZ. Unfortunate.

It will resolve itself with premade group finder. So we can group easier with world content

Maybe. I don't claim to know what *will* happen, but if history is a guide, more difficult overland content like this dies off after a fairly short time. (Like, compared to the overall lifespan of the game). How many groups are there looking to do overland Craglorn content? I can't profess to know, but I've never encountered any. When I pass wandering wb's in the Deadlands, they are just that - wandering, alone. Outside of events, harrowstorms sit active and unattended. Deadlands portals are devoid of players. Just saying, even a group finder may be of limited help if few are looking to do the content.

Anyway, I'm starting to get a little off topic I think - my goal here isn't to start litigating the overland difficulty issue. Just to express a concern that this sounds like another thing that will be cool for a bit and then wind up in the trash heap of disused content that casual / newer / future players will face difficulty in experiencing.

I don't think there are many groups that do overland Craglorn content, but that may be because it's seen as a decent solo overland challenge. I've certainly helped other people with Craglorn content when they've asked in zone chat, but I've rarely seen anyone ask. I've done it all solo though, and it was a nice challenge. I'm glad that such content exists in the game to be honest, because (especially with Shada!) it gives a really nice sense of achievement solo, and as in Gryffindor so in ESO, "help will always be given to those who ask for it".

It does get a bit harder to just turn up at an abyssal geyser or a dragon and expect to find a sizeable group of people already taking it on after a while, but on the other hand if you ask for help with a particular harrowstorm or dragon or whatever people will usually arrive to help. I suspect a group finder would not be productive for these kinds of things - nobody would see you sitting in the queue, so nobody would know you wanted help. Just ask in zone chat.

blktauna

I can solo a geyser on my lower level toons. I can't solo dragons. Those herald things sat me down. Its really annoying hen trying to level a toon via doing the content instead of the quick way. I haven't tried this Nymic andd if it's vet level, I may not bother.

Necrotech_Master

blktauna wrote: »

I can solo a geyser on my lower level toons. I can't solo dragons. Those herald things sat me down. Its really annoying hen trying to level a toon via doing the content instead of the quick way. I haven't tried this Nymic andd if it's vet level, I may not bother.

i wouldnt call them vet level, except maybe in terms of the enemy health (the enemy health is about equivalent to a vet non-dlc dungeon)

the dmg output from the enemies i would say leans closer to normal for trash mobs, maybe a bit higher for the bosses (at least some of the bosses attacks)

difficulty wise it never really felt too hard and rarely died unless i happen to get unlucky and be bursted by 3 enemies at once on a dps with no food running lol

edit: i believe they were actually nerfing the herald seekers, both in terms of health and dmg output, but i think that might be in the next content update thats on the pts)

Twohothardware

ESO is a Massive Multiplayer Online game. Complaining you can’t solo all of the content added doesn’t even make sense.

valenwood_vegan

Not exactly sure why my comment from April was suddenly singled out for a reply, but I fully stand by my opinion expressed at that time that Nymic is likely to become largely abandoned content as the initial rush of players doing things in Necrom dies down.

I mean as I said in the more recent feedback thread about Nymic, it was a fun challenge... but I also sure haven't been back since I got the achievements and have no reason or desire to return. I also fully stand by the much more recent feedback I provided in that thread.

I also don't think anyone is asking for "all of the content to be soloable", but rather people have been expressing disappointment that Nymic is replacing the typical world event model with kind of a cross between a dungeon and a world event, for which people can't just show up organically... but which also lacks group finder support, making grouping more difficult than for a typical dungeon... essentially giving us the worst of both worlds.

I am, however, pleased to see that ZoS is responding to some of the feedback and lowering the ichor requirement in u39 and adding some other fixes to the Nymics.

ajkb78

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Not exactly sure why my comment from April was suddenly singled out for a reply

Well, I do play a necro... But mainly I was reading the thread from the top.

, but I fully stand by my opinion expressed at that time that Nymic is likely to become largely abandoned content as the initial rush of players doing things in Necrom dies down.

I mean as I said in the more recent feedback thread about Nymic, it was a fun challenge... but I also sure haven't been back since I got the achievements and have no reason or desire to return. I also fully stand by the much more recent feedback I provided in that thread.

I also don't think anyone is asking for "all of the content to be soloable", but rather people have been expressing disappointment that Nymic is replacing the typical world event model with kind of a cross between a dungeon and a world event, for which people can't just show up organically... but which also lacks group finder support, making grouping more difficult than for a typical dungeon... essentially giving us the worst of both worlds.

That's not what I was saying. I was just suggesting why you don't see many people grouping up for Craglorn overland, because you don't really need to. But for content where groups are needed, even ancient content like DSA, you still see people regularly lfg for them in the absence of a group finder. But then the rewards from DSA are much better: some of the weapons are pretty desirable. If anything I think that's what Bastion Nymic is lacking - the rewards seem quite lacklustre. The drop rate for furnishing plans is quite low, and the price of them will eventually drop anyway. It appears that the rewards from Endless Archive in Q4 will be class-specific sets, I imagine possibly something like ability altering weapons but which buff class abilities. Perhaps the long term appeal of Bastion Nymic could be improved by allowing one class's class-specific set to drop as end boss rewards there, instead of piling them all into the Endless Archive.

I am, however, pleased to see that ZoS is responding to some of the feedback and lowering the ichor requirement in u39 and adding some other fixes to the Nymics.

They should just make it scale. Every group member needs an ichor, or the gate doesn't open.

ESO_player123

ajkb78 wrote: »

They should just make it scale. Every group member needs an ichor, or the gate doesn't open.

As in "every member needs to participate in Herald seeker killing?" I would actually be against that. When I started my group I always collected the ichor myself and then advertised in the zone as "join, already have ichor". It's much faster and gets better responses than running around haphazardly with a group looking for seekers.

Edit: when I was looking for a group, I also preferred the ones that already had "gate ready to open".

fall0athboy

Anyone on PTS: In 9.1.1 they lowered the health and damage of the Herald's Seekers. How low has the health gotten?

And how much has the damage gone down?

chessalavakia_ESO

fall0athboy wrote: »

Anyone on PTS: In 9.1.1 they lowered the health and damage of the Herald's Seekers. How low has the health gotten?

And how much has the damage gone down?

879.1k HP.

I passed on buying Necrom so I can't give you an exact comparison to live on damage. The mechanics will still kill or your companion fast if you fail them if you are on a 20k hp build. (It had been long enough since I did them that I failed a few times on one of my lesser characters due to having forgotten the mechanics. I had hoped to never deal with them again but since the event quest required entering a Nymic... Fortunately, the quest didn't actually require completing the Nymic so I didn't have to suffer in it for too long)

I'm unsure if it's a change from live (I didn't recall them doing it on the PTS) but, they seem to agro now if you are right next to them.

fall0athboy

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

fall0athboy wrote: »

Anyone on PTS: In 9.1.1 they lowered the health and damage of the Herald's Seekers. How low has the health gotten?

And how much has the damage gone down?

879.1k HP.

I passed on buying Necrom so I can't give you an exact comparison to live on damage. The mechanics will still kill or your companion fast if you fail them if you are on a 20k hp build. (It had been long enough since I did them that I failed a few times on one of my lesser characters due to having forgotten the mechanics. I had hoped to never deal with them again but since the event quest required entering a Nymic... Fortunately, the quest didn't actually require completing the Nymic so I didn't have to suffer in it for too long)

I'm unsure if it's a change from live (I didn't recall them doing it on the PTS) but, they seem to agro now if you are right next to them.

Oh, that's awesome, that is a significant drop.

Necrotech_Master

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

fall0athboy wrote: »

Anyone on PTS: In 9.1.1 they lowered the health and damage of the Herald's Seekers. How low has the health gotten?

And how much has the damage gone down?

879.1k HP.

I passed on buying Necrom so I can't give you an exact comparison to live on damage. The mechanics will still kill or your companion fast if you fail them if you are on a 20k hp build. (It had been long enough since I did them that I failed a few times on one of my lesser characters due to having forgotten the mechanics. I had hoped to never deal with them again but since the event quest required entering a Nymic... Fortunately, the quest didn't actually require completing the Nymic so I didn't have to suffer in it for too long)

I'm unsure if it's a change from live (I didn't recall them doing it on the PTS) but, they seem to agro now if you are right next to them.

that is almost a 50% reduction in their health, currently they are in the 1.6-1.8 mil range (i dont remember the exact number)

the only mechanic that was ever really a danger to me was when they split into 3 and sent out the waves, if i got hit by 2 waves i was dead, 1 wave hurt, but it was generally easy enough to avoid unless i got stuck or didnt dodge roll

the seekers do technically also have the devour brain attack which is still a 1 shot, but that is easily interrupted or you can ccbreak out of it

Granden_Woodleafson

Is there group-finder for this kind of dungeon? I think they're encouraging the use of guild assets instead of something like the Random Dungeon Finder.

KlauthWarthog

Granden_Woodleafson wrote: »

Is there group-finder for this kind of dungeon? I think they're encouraging the use of guild assets instead of something like the Random Dungeon Finder.

I think the Group Finder for the upcoming Update 40 will include options to queue for it.

TheImperfect

I just put +nymic in zone chat and group up and do it that way. Or sometimes just join others doing the heralds until can open the portal and then group up by typing +nymic in zone chat.

EnerG

I find all of the BN bosses/sub bosses, at times challenging but a pretty easy solo. That being said on PC na, just wait 5 minutes for a BN group to appear or make your own, it's a VERY easy daily with 4 people, I'd say it's about the same difficulty as ... hmm veteran wayrest sewers 1, just lots of enemies with high hp and heavily telegraphed attack patterns.

Granden_Woodleafson

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

Granden_Woodleafson wrote: »

Is there group-finder for this kind of dungeon? I think they're encouraging the use of guild assets instead of something like the Random Dungeon Finder.

I think the Group Finder for the upcoming Update 40 will include options to queue for it.

Too late for those who need it now for the event, oh well.. I guess they figured that the event would take care of it by the sheer numbers of players looking for the rewards. What they didn't figure was that not everybody has the DLC.

Granden_Woodleafson

EnerG wrote: »

I find all of the BN bosses/sub bosses, at times challenging but a pretty easy solo. That being said on PC na, just wait 5 minutes for a BN group to appear or make your own, it's a VERY easy daily with 4 people, I'd say it's about the same difficulty as ... hmm veteran wayrest sewers 1, just lots of enemies with high hp and heavily telegraphed attack patterns.

Easy yeah, but wayyyy too much time involved for the rewards you get, I'm skipping this event, totally useless.

Araneae6537

Maybe Bastion Nymic has changed a lot since U38, but when I finally tried it during the Necrom event and since, it is a lot of fun and I enjoy the feel of the different areas. I worked with another player I met in zone this past weekend to get the Master Puzzler achievement as we completed all three runs (I had a previous daily) just the two of us and our companions. I am by no means an elite player, only adequate DPS at best, and it was a fun but very doable challenge. Along with the dragons of Elsweyr, BN is my favorite incursion / world event in the expansions.

fall0athboy

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Maybe Bastion Nymic has changed a lot since U38, but when I finally tried it during the Necrom event and since, it is a lot of fun and I enjoy the feel of the different areas. I worked with another player I met in zone this past weekend to get the Master Puzzler achievement as we completed all three runs (I had a previous daily) just the two of us and our companions. I am by no means an elite player, only adequate DPS at best, and it was a fun but very doable challenge. Along with the dragons of Elsweyr, BN is my favorite incursion / world event in the expansions.

It really hasn't changed much since release. The interior is basically the same, the only thing that changed is the health of the Seekers and how much ichor you need.

Dr_Con

Serenez wrote: »

Oh I just found a video on YouTube which I don't think I am allowed to post here, but if you go to YouTube and search for Bastion Nymic, you should find it. It was done Solo with an Arcanist build.

When I went through this 'dungeon like' instance yesterday, I missed so much of what I am seeing on this video.

There is a Treasure Room ! That is interesting. I kind of want to get a group together to investigate more of this dungeon like instance

Serenez wrote: »

Oh I just found a video on YouTube which I don't think I am allowed to post here, but if you go to YouTube and search for Bastion Nymic, you should find it. It was done Solo with an Arcanist build.

When I went through this 'dungeon like' instance yesterday, I missed so much of what I am seeing on this video.

There is a Treasure Room ! That is interesting. I kind of want to get a group together to investigate more of this dungeon like instance

you can probably dm a mod but I see YT links on here all the time. the forum is even integrated to show the video without having to go to youtube.