Bastion Nymic Daily.... Who is the intended audience for this?

valenwood_vegan

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

I'm worried that if Bastion Nymic fails, any hope for a harder solo experience for questing will be gone because of "We tried with Bastion Nymic, but it wasn't popular enough"

It's funny, I was thinking something similar. It almost feels like a trap - of course I could be wrong, but I don't see *this* implementation of harder overland being very popular at all, and it could very-well result in that outcome.

colossalvoids

If that's their harder overland attempt - it's a flop, people are asking not for this.

If that's just a something new instead of a usual incursions as they've got free scraps from Q3 dungeon or arena - a whole different topic.

Serenez

Oh I just found a video on YouTube which I don't think I am allowed to post here, but if you go to YouTube and search for Bastion Nymic, you should find it. It was done Solo with an Arcanist build.

When I went through this 'dungeon like' instance yesterday, I missed so much of what I am seeing on this video.

There is a Treasure Room ! That is interesting. I kind of want to get a group together to investigate more of this dungeon like instance

SilverBride

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

I'm worried that if Bastion Nymic fails, any hope for a harder solo experience for questing will be gone because of "We tried with Bastion Nymic, but it wasn't popular enough"

It's funny, I was thinking something similar. It almost feels like a trap - of course I could be wrong, but I don't see *this* implementation of harder overland being very popular at all, and it could very-well result in that outcome.

I think it's an honest attempt to bring more difficulty options and to give players a reason to visit all the zones again.

If it's not popular it could be an indicator that not many are wanting more difficulty, but it could also be because of how time consuming it is and having to group.

I just don't think it's going to work for the reasons it was intended.

Parrot1986

Added more info in the official thread but for me I really liked this as an alternative to the recent vents, harrowstorms, fissures etc we've had as world events. Oh and not to forget the deadric portals which was horrible to do.

The difficulty for these is obviously aimed at groups, we did duo and couple deaths but overall was fine.

To do the actual daily requirements this doesnt take long. Kill 2 of the bosses to get the materials and 2 bosses in the portal and you're done. The puzzle for the book also seemed to be the same for the 2 runs so that saves some time as well.

For all the side achievements these do take longer and I love the fact there's no hand holding and you do need to read, explore and find the answers. This has been removed from the game almost and I like the fact its not just put in front of you. Also all this content is mostly going to be once and done since these are side achievements so I dont mind spending time on this part a small number of times.

I do think this should have a group finder option, also the mobs shouldnt reset and come back after they've been killed for a while.

But overall I like this.

Rex-Umbra

This is not what I wanted when I asked for more difficult overland this sounds terrible. I want more challenging story content not this nonsense

Tommy_The_Gun

Serenez wrote: »

Oh I just found a video on YouTube which I don't think I am allowed to post here, but if you go to YouTube and search for Bastion Nymic, you should find it. It was done Solo with an Arcanist build.

When I went through this 'dungeon like' instance yesterday, I missed so much of what I am seeing on this video.

There is a Treasure Room ! That is interesting. I kind of want to get a group together to investigate more of this dungeon like instance

Well, there is the problem right there. A pro-dude with access to best possible gear on PTS is struggling on a new OP class. Sure, eventually he manages to finish it, but I just want to say one important thing.

This chapter will be a 1st adventure in ESO for many. New chapter is always an opportunity to attract new players. I don't expect newcomers to be able to do this quest. But what about your " average Joe" ? I mean if someone who is very good at this game and is max level with maxed CP is struggling, then... how is an average person suppose to do it ?

They are not supposed to be able to do a daily World Event quest ? Because Devs wanted a "fresh idea" ?

People wanted harder, more challenging overland with better rewards. What we are getting instead is a quest to kill 5 bullet sponge enemies (as I have said in previous post - it takes a lot of time to kill them solo). Quest should end there, but no.. we are instead teased with a Dungeon that is way too hard... and it is not even an overland. This is a very important word. Overland. Slightly, gently harder overland. We are not getting this. Instead we are getting a special dungeon without group finder, and the difficulty is all about either spending time socializing in "LFG" mini-game, or spending time killing three 4 million health bosses.

- Bullet sponge health pools.
- Locked behind a group content and scaled to 4 man - but hey... it is open... you can certainly try...
- One shots.
- Perma CCs.

Are those 4 points the only way that Devs know how to make a content challenging ? There is a difference between challenging and unfair. And even From Software games are more fair.

Also... just a thought. If it is suppose to be hard, then why it is a daily quest ? Daily routine ? If you do stuff like this daily, then it is no longer an accomplishment.

Parrot1986

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Serenez wrote: »

Oh I just found a video on YouTube which I don't think I am allowed to post here, but if you go to YouTube and search for Bastion Nymic, you should find it. It was done Solo with an Arcanist build.

When I went through this 'dungeon like' instance yesterday, I missed so much of what I am seeing on this video.

There is a Treasure Room ! That is interesting. I kind of want to get a group together to investigate more of this dungeon like instance

Well, there is the problem right there. A pro-dude with access to best possible gear on PTS is struggling on a new OP class. Sure, eventually he manages to finish it, but I just want to say one important thing.

This chapter will be a 1st adventure in ESO for many. New chapter is always an opportunity to attract new players. I don't expect newcomers to be able to do this quest. But what about your " average Joe" ? I mean if someone who is very good at this game and is max level with maxed CP is struggling, then... how is an average person suppose to do it ?

They are not supposed to be able to do a daily World Event quest ? Because Devs wanted a "fresh idea" ?

People wanted harder, more challenging overland with better rewards. What we are getting instead is a quest to kill 5 bullet sponge enemies (as I have said in previous post - it takes a lot of time to kill them solo). Quest should end there, but no.. we are instead teased with a Dungeon that is way too hard... and it is not even an overland. This is a very important word. Overland. Slightly, gently harder overland. We are not getting this. Instead we are getting a special dungeon without group finder, and the difficulty is all about either spending time socializing in "LFG" mini-game, or spending time killing three 4 million health bosses.

- Bullet sponge health pools.
- Locked behind a group content and scaled to 4 man - but hey... it is open... you can certainly try...
- One shots.
- Perma CCs.

Are those 4 points the only way that Devs know how to make a content challenging ? There is a difference between challenging and unfair. And even From Software games are more fair.

Also... just a thought. If it is suppose to be hard, then why it is a daily quest ? Daily routine ? If you do stuff like this daily, then it is no longer an accomplishment.

There's a lot in this I don't really agree with but I understand that this isnt the harder overland content we've been asking for. My question though is, was it supposed to be? Anything I've seen from Zos on that point they've said no too. This is a new way of doing world events which should be very difficult to solo and encourage players to play together. I think it does that. Elswyr really annoyed me when a dragon was killed before it even took off due to being zerged. I loved it when dolmens were actually tough and soloing one was a challenge.

On the part around the 5 bosses to get the items. From me doing them solo it took 1 min 20 sec on average to kill them. Hardly a long time. Some will do it quicker and some longer, but they arent 5 minute fights.

Estin

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Serenez wrote: »

Oh I just found a video on YouTube which I don't think I am allowed to post here, but if you go to YouTube and search for Bastion Nymic, you should find it. It was done Solo with an Arcanist build.

When I went through this 'dungeon like' instance yesterday, I missed so much of what I am seeing on this video.

There is a Treasure Room ! That is interesting. I kind of want to get a group together to investigate more of this dungeon like instance

Well, there is the problem right there. A pro-dude with access to best possible gear on PTS is struggling on a new OP class. Sure, eventually he manages to finish it, but I just want to say one important thing.

This chapter will be a 1st adventure in ESO for many. New chapter is always an opportunity to attract new players. I don't expect newcomers to be able to do this quest. But what about your " average Joe" ? I mean if someone who is very good at this game and is max level with maxed CP is struggling, then... how is an average person suppose to do it ?

They are not supposed to be able to do a daily World Event quest ? Because Devs wanted a "fresh idea" ?

People wanted harder, more challenging overland with better rewards. What we are getting instead is a quest to kill 5 bullet sponge enemies (as I have said in previous post - it takes a lot of time to kill them solo). Quest should end there, but no.. we are instead teased with a Dungeon that is way too hard... and it is not even an overland. This is a very important word. Overland. Slightly, gently harder overland. We are not getting this. Instead we are getting a special dungeon without group finder, and the difficulty is all about either spending time socializing in "LFG" mini-game, or spending time killing three 4 million health bosses.

- Bullet sponge health pools.
- Locked behind a group content and scaled to 4 man - but hey... it is open... you can certainly try...
- One shots.
- Perma CCs.

Are those 4 points the only way that Devs know how to make a content challenging ? There is a difference between challenging and unfair. And even From Software games are more fair.

Also... just a thought. If it is suppose to be hard, then why it is a daily quest ? Daily routine ? If you do stuff like this daily, then it is no longer an accomplishment.

There's a lot in this I don't really agree with but I understand that this isnt the harder overland content we've been asking for. My question though is, was it supposed to be? Anything I've seen from Zos on that point they've said no too. This is a new way of doing world events which should be very difficult to solo and encourage players to play together. I think it does that. Elswyr really annoyed me when a dragon was killed before it even took off due to being zerged. I loved it when dolmens were actually tough and soloing one was a challenge.

On the part around the 5 bosses to get the items. From me doing them solo it took 1 min 20 sec on average to kill them. Hardly a long time. Some will do it quicker and some longer, but they arent 5 minute fights.

It is their response as far as I know. The in person AMA they had last week had somebody ask the question, and the second part in italics was given in a 1 on 1 conversation. This was their response

Why not increase overland difficulty? Why not have Normal vs Veteran instances of overland?

Sort of looking back at how we did things with difficult overland content back before One Tamriel, we didn't see favorable results from separating players based on arbitrary categories and we really want to allow players to play with whoever they want and not introduce another barrier of interaction between different demographics of players.

With that being said, we do recognize a lot of people want increased overland difficulty and the new world events (Bastion Nymics) that are instanced for up to 4 players in Necrom is one of our answers to that.

colossalvoids

If we're talking new players I don't think it's actually a problem for those. It's a problem for people who already know what incursion event is and what it was previously so have a level of expectations that can be not met with this one, as public it aimed for is different, maybe always was but they've been unable to hit the mark before.

New players have no idea what's solo and what's group content, I clearly remember going into AA and HoF when was a fresh player, same as going into other + marked content, those have "blue arrow" quests also, same as a trial or an arena quests. The only unfortunate thing is that quest gives is situated at the usual "dolmen" spot and the icon is the usual "incursion vortex" but with a plus to it, which people won't notice at times, but still you won't have any idea of those differences as a beginner, same as venturing into trials and dungeons.

About vet overland I don't think any of us would agree what "we" want, so it's a discussion for a different thread, but I've already participated there when it was first created.

Necrotech_Master

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Serenez wrote: »

Oh I just found a video on YouTube which I don't think I am allowed to post here, but if you go to YouTube and search for Bastion Nymic, you should find it. It was done Solo with an Arcanist build.

When I went through this 'dungeon like' instance yesterday, I missed so much of what I am seeing on this video.

There is a Treasure Room ! That is interesting. I kind of want to get a group together to investigate more of this dungeon like instance

Well, there is the problem right there. A pro-dude with access to best possible gear on PTS is struggling on a new OP class. Sure, eventually he manages to finish it, but I just want to say one important thing.

This chapter will be a 1st adventure in ESO for many. New chapter is always an opportunity to attract new players. I don't expect newcomers to be able to do this quest. But what about your " average Joe" ? I mean if someone who is very good at this game and is max level with maxed CP is struggling, then... how is an average person suppose to do it ?

They are not supposed to be able to do a daily World Event quest ? Because Devs wanted a "fresh idea" ?

People wanted harder, more challenging overland with better rewards. What we are getting instead is a quest to kill 5 bullet sponge enemies (as I have said in previous post - it takes a lot of time to kill them solo). Quest should end there, but no.. we are instead teased with a Dungeon that is way too hard... and it is not even an overland. This is a very important word. Overland. Slightly, gently harder overland. We are not getting this. Instead we are getting a special dungeon without group finder, and the difficulty is all about either spending time socializing in "LFG" mini-game, or spending time killing three 4 million health bosses.

- Bullet sponge health pools.
- Locked behind a group content and scaled to 4 man - but hey... it is open... you can certainly try...
- One shots.
- Perma CCs.

Are those 4 points the only way that Devs know how to make a content challenging ? There is a difference between challenging and unfair. And even From Software games are more fair.

Also... just a thought. If it is suppose to be hard, then why it is a daily quest ? Daily routine ? If you do stuff like this daily, then it is no longer an accomplishment.

There's a lot in this I don't really agree with but I understand that this isnt the harder overland content we've been asking for. My question though is, was it supposed to be? Anything I've seen from Zos on that point they've said no too. This is a new way of doing world events which should be very difficult to solo and encourage players to play together. I think it does that. Elswyr really annoyed me when a dragon was killed before it even took off due to being zerged. I loved it when dolmens were actually tough and soloing one was a challenge.

On the part around the 5 bosses to get the items. From me doing them solo it took 1 min 20 sec on average to kill them. Hardly a long time. Some will do it quicker and some longer, but they arent 5 minute fights.

if they are only about 4 mil hp, thats approx double what a normal WB is (most WB are in the 1.5-2.5 mil range), and i would agree that the fights shouldnt take that long, unless your running like a <20k dps setup or trying to kill it with a tank

its way less of a slog than trying to solo one of the wandering WBs in galen or deadlands that have like 10 mil hp (or a dragon with 16 mil hp)

Parrot1986

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Serenez wrote: »

Oh I just found a video on YouTube which I don't think I am allowed to post here, but if you go to YouTube and search for Bastion Nymic, you should find it. It was done Solo with an Arcanist build.

When I went through this 'dungeon like' instance yesterday, I missed so much of what I am seeing on this video.

There is a Treasure Room ! That is interesting. I kind of want to get a group together to investigate more of this dungeon like instance

Well, there is the problem right there. A pro-dude with access to best possible gear on PTS is struggling on a new OP class. Sure, eventually he manages to finish it, but I just want to say one important thing.

This chapter will be a 1st adventure in ESO for many. New chapter is always an opportunity to attract new players. I don't expect newcomers to be able to do this quest. But what about your " average Joe" ? I mean if someone who is very good at this game and is max level with maxed CP is struggling, then... how is an average person suppose to do it ?

They are not supposed to be able to do a daily World Event quest ? Because Devs wanted a "fresh idea" ?

People wanted harder, more challenging overland with better rewards. What we are getting instead is a quest to kill 5 bullet sponge enemies (as I have said in previous post - it takes a lot of time to kill them solo). Quest should end there, but no.. we are instead teased with a Dungeon that is way too hard... and it is not even an overland. This is a very important word. Overland. Slightly, gently harder overland. We are not getting this. Instead we are getting a special dungeon without group finder, and the difficulty is all about either spending time socializing in "LFG" mini-game, or spending time killing three 4 million health bosses.

- Bullet sponge health pools.
- Locked behind a group content and scaled to 4 man - but hey... it is open... you can certainly try...
- One shots.
- Perma CCs.

Are those 4 points the only way that Devs know how to make a content challenging ? There is a difference between challenging and unfair. And even From Software games are more fair.

Also... just a thought. If it is suppose to be hard, then why it is a daily quest ? Daily routine ? If you do stuff like this daily, then it is no longer an accomplishment.

There's a lot in this I don't really agree with but I understand that this isnt the harder overland content we've been asking for. My question though is, was it supposed to be? Anything I've seen from Zos on that point they've said no too. This is a new way of doing world events which should be very difficult to solo and encourage players to play together. I think it does that. Elswyr really annoyed me when a dragon was killed before it even took off due to being zerged. I loved it when dolmens were actually tough and soloing one was a challenge.

On the part around the 5 bosses to get the items. From me doing them solo it took 1 min 20 sec on average to kill them. Hardly a long time. Some will do it quicker and some longer, but they arent 5 minute fights.

It is their response as far as I know. The in person AMA they had last week had somebody ask the question, and the second part in italics was given in a 1 on 1 conversation. This was their response

Why not increase overland difficulty? Why not have Normal vs Veteran instances of overland?

Sort of looking back at how we did things with difficult overland content back before One Tamriel, we didn't see favorable results from separating players based on arbitrary categories and we really want to allow players to play with whoever they want and not introduce another barrier of interaction between different demographics of players.

With that being said, we do recognize a lot of people want increased overland difficulty and the new world events (Bastion Nymics) that are instanced for up to 4 players in Necrom is one of our answers to that.

Ah ok thanks for that. Hadnt seen that, I guess its a bit of both though reading it. Dont want to make overland hard because it didnt work initial with the whole Craglorn zone but still give people something and feels like world events is the right place for it. Those should be for groups and really are today, main difference is these force you to group together rather than zerg with lots of people. If these were like Blackwoods portals yes anyone could do them but they were horrible for content wise IMO. All of the old world events like dragons etc are also soloable but not to most who play and these will be the same. These just force you to group which I'm fine with in an MMO

I get this wont be for everyone and tbh once I have the 30 dailies i'll probably not go back in but thats the same for everything really.

There's things in the new events which arent great and i hope they improve them but I like the fact it encourages group play. Dumbing content down to allow anyone to complete it solo has led us to the point where we are only one shoting daedric princes.

Tommy_The_Gun

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Serenez wrote: »

Oh I just found a video on YouTube which I don't think I am allowed to post here, but if you go to YouTube and search for Bastion Nymic, you should find it. It was done Solo with an Arcanist build.

When I went through this 'dungeon like' instance yesterday, I missed so much of what I am seeing on this video.

There is a Treasure Room ! That is interesting. I kind of want to get a group together to investigate more of this dungeon like instance

Well, there is the problem right there. A pro-dude with access to best possible gear on PTS is struggling on a new OP class. Sure, eventually he manages to finish it, but I just want to say one important thing.

This chapter will be a 1st adventure in ESO for many. New chapter is always an opportunity to attract new players. I don't expect newcomers to be able to do this quest. But what about your " average Joe" ? I mean if someone who is very good at this game and is max level with maxed CP is struggling, then... how is an average person suppose to do it ?

They are not supposed to be able to do a daily World Event quest ? Because Devs wanted a "fresh idea" ?

People wanted harder, more challenging overland with better rewards. What we are getting instead is a quest to kill 5 bullet sponge enemies (as I have said in previous post - it takes a lot of time to kill them solo). Quest should end there, but no.. we are instead teased with a Dungeon that is way too hard... and it is not even an overland. This is a very important word. Overland. Slightly, gently harder overland. We are not getting this. Instead we are getting a special dungeon without group finder, and the difficulty is all about either spending time socializing in "LFG" mini-game, or spending time killing three 4 million health bosses.

- Bullet sponge health pools.
- Locked behind a group content and scaled to 4 man - but hey... it is open... you can certainly try...
- One shots.
- Perma CCs.

Are those 4 points the only way that Devs know how to make a content challenging ? There is a difference between challenging and unfair. And even From Software games are more fair.

Also... just a thought. If it is suppose to be hard, then why it is a daily quest ? Daily routine ? If you do stuff like this daily, then it is no longer an accomplishment.

There's a lot in this I don't really agree with but I understand that this isnt the harder overland content we've been asking for. My question though is, was it supposed to be? Anything I've seen from Zos on that point they've said no too. This is a new way of doing world events which should be very difficult to solo and encourage players to play together. I think it does that. Elswyr really annoyed me when a dragon was killed before it even took off due to being zerged. I loved it when dolmens were actually tough and soloing one was a challenge.

On the part around the 5 bosses to get the items. From me doing them solo it took 1 min 20 sec on average to kill them. Hardly a long time. Some will do it quicker and some longer, but they arent 5 minute fights.

Fine, no problem with some content being harder. The problem is accessibility. As far as I can tell this new "special" group dungeon does not have group finder support. So it is kinda like Trials or Arenas. If you are not in a guild, then you have to play "LFG" socialization mini game (and may or may not get into a group after wasting some time). So, the content is kinda being gated, not necessary behind being super hard so the "only few chosen ones can do it". It is more like: Oh, you are lone wolf and you play solo ? Then this is not for you.

So no wonder players are mad, since they remember the term "World Event" and it is an overland activity. So now it looks like certain type of players lost content they could do in favour of guilds & end game PvE-ers.

The solution is quite simple. Just like when we had Battlegrounds as a new activity, then ZOS somehow was able to add a MM (group finder) for BGs. If the new World Activity is a group dungeon - then there is no reason it should not have a group finder support to. Just add it to the list of all dungeons you can queue for and all will be fine I guess. Players will do overland bosses & help each other. Then for the 2nd part you queue for the dungeon. Ideally, it should do so automatically when you enter the dungeon (a pop-up screen with 2 options saying basically: Find me a group or I want solo).

Parrot1986

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Serenez wrote: »

Oh I just found a video on YouTube which I don't think I am allowed to post here, but if you go to YouTube and search for Bastion Nymic, you should find it. It was done Solo with an Arcanist build.

When I went through this 'dungeon like' instance yesterday, I missed so much of what I am seeing on this video.

There is a Treasure Room ! That is interesting. I kind of want to get a group together to investigate more of this dungeon like instance

Well, there is the problem right there. A pro-dude with access to best possible gear on PTS is struggling on a new OP class. Sure, eventually he manages to finish it, but I just want to say one important thing.

This chapter will be a 1st adventure in ESO for many. New chapter is always an opportunity to attract new players. I don't expect newcomers to be able to do this quest. But what about your " average Joe" ? I mean if someone who is very good at this game and is max level with maxed CP is struggling, then... how is an average person suppose to do it ?

They are not supposed to be able to do a daily World Event quest ? Because Devs wanted a "fresh idea" ?

People wanted harder, more challenging overland with better rewards. What we are getting instead is a quest to kill 5 bullet sponge enemies (as I have said in previous post - it takes a lot of time to kill them solo). Quest should end there, but no.. we are instead teased with a Dungeon that is way too hard... and it is not even an overland. This is a very important word. Overland. Slightly, gently harder overland. We are not getting this. Instead we are getting a special dungeon without group finder, and the difficulty is all about either spending time socializing in "LFG" mini-game, or spending time killing three 4 million health bosses.

- Bullet sponge health pools.
- Locked behind a group content and scaled to 4 man - but hey... it is open... you can certainly try...
- One shots.
- Perma CCs.

Are those 4 points the only way that Devs know how to make a content challenging ? There is a difference between challenging and unfair. And even From Software games are more fair.

Also... just a thought. If it is suppose to be hard, then why it is a daily quest ? Daily routine ? If you do stuff like this daily, then it is no longer an accomplishment.

There's a lot in this I don't really agree with but I understand that this isnt the harder overland content we've been asking for. My question though is, was it supposed to be? Anything I've seen from Zos on that point they've said no too. This is a new way of doing world events which should be very difficult to solo and encourage players to play together. I think it does that. Elswyr really annoyed me when a dragon was killed before it even took off due to being zerged. I loved it when dolmens were actually tough and soloing one was a challenge.

On the part around the 5 bosses to get the items. From me doing them solo it took 1 min 20 sec on average to kill them. Hardly a long time. Some will do it quicker and some longer, but they arent 5 minute fights.

if they are only about 4 mil hp, thats approx double what a normal WB is (most WB are in the 1.5-2.5 mil range), and i would agree that the fights shouldnt take that long, unless your running like a <20k dps setup or trying to kill it with a tank

its way less of a slog than trying to solo one of the wandering WBs in galen or deadlands that have like 10 mil hp (or a dragon with 16 mil hp)

Aye most of the bosses for this are <1 min fights with 2 semi ok DDs and even Tank/DD i reckon. Hardest fight I had was the final portal boss. It had a side boss with it for an achievement and both had 5m health. Thats the first time i've seen the side boss though. Doing that solo wasnt easy but did take 4 mins total for me. Using Pale Order I didnt get close to dying either.

Parrot1986

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Serenez wrote: »

Oh I just found a video on YouTube which I don't think I am allowed to post here, but if you go to YouTube and search for Bastion Nymic, you should find it. It was done Solo with an Arcanist build.

When I went through this 'dungeon like' instance yesterday, I missed so much of what I am seeing on this video.

There is a Treasure Room ! That is interesting. I kind of want to get a group together to investigate more of this dungeon like instance

Well, there is the problem right there. A pro-dude with access to best possible gear on PTS is struggling on a new OP class. Sure, eventually he manages to finish it, but I just want to say one important thing.

This chapter will be a 1st adventure in ESO for many. New chapter is always an opportunity to attract new players. I don't expect newcomers to be able to do this quest. But what about your " average Joe" ? I mean if someone who is very good at this game and is max level with maxed CP is struggling, then... how is an average person suppose to do it ?

They are not supposed to be able to do a daily World Event quest ? Because Devs wanted a "fresh idea" ?

People wanted harder, more challenging overland with better rewards. What we are getting instead is a quest to kill 5 bullet sponge enemies (as I have said in previous post - it takes a lot of time to kill them solo). Quest should end there, but no.. we are instead teased with a Dungeon that is way too hard... and it is not even an overland. This is a very important word. Overland. Slightly, gently harder overland. We are not getting this. Instead we are getting a special dungeon without group finder, and the difficulty is all about either spending time socializing in "LFG" mini-game, or spending time killing three 4 million health bosses.

- Bullet sponge health pools.
- Locked behind a group content and scaled to 4 man - but hey... it is open... you can certainly try...
- One shots.
- Perma CCs.

Are those 4 points the only way that Devs know how to make a content challenging ? There is a difference between challenging and unfair. And even From Software games are more fair.

Also... just a thought. If it is suppose to be hard, then why it is a daily quest ? Daily routine ? If you do stuff like this daily, then it is no longer an accomplishment.

There's a lot in this I don't really agree with but I understand that this isnt the harder overland content we've been asking for. My question though is, was it supposed to be? Anything I've seen from Zos on that point they've said no too. This is a new way of doing world events which should be very difficult to solo and encourage players to play together. I think it does that. Elswyr really annoyed me when a dragon was killed before it even took off due to being zerged. I loved it when dolmens were actually tough and soloing one was a challenge.

On the part around the 5 bosses to get the items. From me doing them solo it took 1 min 20 sec on average to kill them. Hardly a long time. Some will do it quicker and some longer, but they arent 5 minute fights.

Fine, no problem with some content being harder. The problem is accessibility. As far as I can tell this new "special" group dungeon does not have group finder support. So it is kinda like Trials or Arenas. If you are not in a guild, then you have to play "LFG" socialization mini game (and may or may not get into a group after wasting some time). So, the content is kinda being gated, not necessary behind being super hard so the "only few chosen ones can do it". It is more like: Oh, you are lone wolf and you play solo ? Then this is not for you.

So no wonder players are mad, since they remember the term "World Event" and it is an overland activity. So now it looks like certain type of players lost content they could do in favour of guilds & end game PvE-ers.

The solution is quite simple. Just like when we had Battlegrounds as a new activity, then ZOS somehow was able to add a MM (group finder) for BGs. If the new World Activity is a group dungeon - then there is no reason it should not have a group finder support to. Just add it to the list of all dungeons you can queue for and all will be fine I guess. Players will do overland bosses & help each other. Then for the 2nd part you queue for the dungeon. Ideally, it should do so automatically when you enter the dungeon (a pop-up screen with 2 options saying basically: Find me a group or I want solo).

Oh 100% this should be in the group finder as an option. If they are going to bring this in they should look at how players get to group up and not leave it up to them. I know the pre-made grouping tool is coming later but somethings needed for this just now as well and should come as you say.

SirLeeMinion

At first cut, though, this seems to be aimed at people that run dungeons. Solo, it's a long, boring slog. It lacked any interesting mechanics that I could discern, except possibly a DPS check on the last boss. (I couldn't tell if it's health was resetting because my DPS was too low, because my interrupts weren't landing, or because the dungeon and I were regularly de-syncing. )

With a group, it's just another dungeon - except you have to kill a bunch of WBs just to enter. Do you have to kill 5 WBs every time? Is it a right of passage that having done it once you get a pass for the future? I've no idea, and little desire to find out.

This content will be dead a month after launch unless it gets stocked with leads that have an abysmally low drop rate. In that case, it will be filled with bored, resentful people.

Ashryn

plain and simple... this is just another dungeon. Why does it seem that we are getting just dungeon content everywhere this year?

Cireous

I do have to give some credit where credit is due:

On day one of this Chapter, they're giving us a Chapter zone, a DLC zone, and, even, SURPRISE, a 4-man vet dungeon. So that's like, 3 quarters worth of content in 1 quarter (sort of). Bravo in that respect.

ESO_player123

Cireous wrote: »

I do have to give some credit where credit is due:

On day one of this Chapter, they're giving us a Chapter zone, a DLC zone, and, even, SURPRISE, a 4-man vet dungeon. So that's like, 3 quarters worth of content in 1 quarter (sort of). Bravo in that respect.

A 4-man vet dungeon with a ToT fragment tied to it. I would call that a surprise.

Katheriah

Why is 'locked/gated behind group content' considered to be an argument in an MMO? Difficulty can always be a discussion obviously, but let's not pretend content is being 'gated' just for being group content. It's a choice to only play solo in an MMO, something you're doing to yourself.

Tommy_The_Gun

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Cireous wrote: »

I do have to give some credit where credit is due:

On day one of this Chapter, they're giving us a Chapter zone, a DLC zone, and, even, SURPRISE, a 4-man vet dungeon. So that's like, 3 quarters worth of content in 1 quarter (sort of). Bravo in that respect.

A 4-man vet dungeon with a ToT fragment tied to it. I would call that a surprise.

...Without a group finder... meaning that it is more like an Arena or Trial.

However... I managed to solo it... but it took around 3 hours for the entire quest (yikes !) I had to be very tanky (healing set + a lot of passives healing & health recovery + max cp). So despite having a decent dps for this type of setup (around 30K) it still took way too long. Also I did not explored the whole dungeon - only areas necessary to complete the "World Eventt" daily quest.

The most disappointing thing was the reward. For 3 hours of doing challenging content alone, all I got was a regular daily reward box with an overland gear set. I am better off doing other 2 daily quest 2 times (main & alt characters). Other than achievements and doing it once just to clear the map, I don't see a reason to do this daily.

In its current state, it takes way, way too much time. I can imagine that even if you are in group it is still way too much hassle for what you are getting in return. People are better of doing Undaunted dailies, as at least those have appropriate rewards.

This quest needs to be way shorter. Like.. idk... kill 2 or 3 world bosses instead of 5 and then only one boss inside a dungeon - and the rest as "optional objective", or even make the whole dungeon as "optional objective".

Also the adds during 1st stage of the quest (Overland) and 2nd stage (Dungeon) are just unnecessary. With the setup I had even multiple enemies could not kill me & I could "stand in stupid" and live. But even with around 30K dps, every mob, every add, every boss was a "bullet sponge". Pixel, by pixel, I slowly lowered the health bars down. It was not hard. It was long. Too long. I mean, how long does it take to do a "World Event" quest like a Harrowstorm or Dolmen ? This is suppose to be an equivalent of such quest, right ?

This dungeon could really use an "Endless Dungeon" mode (2 players or 1 player + companion). Then it would be at least fun.

BlueRaven

Z

Katheriah wrote: »

Why is 'locked/gated behind group content' considered to be an argument in an MMO? Difficulty can always be a discussion obviously, but let's not pretend content is being 'gated' just for being group content. It's a choice to only play solo in an MMO, something you're doing to yourself.

A few things to keep in mind:

First off a MMO does not mean forced grouping. That is something that WoW does, but it’s not something inherent in an mmo. You can have an mmo that does not have the ability to group at all. The two are not inherently linked.

ESO has a reputation for being very solo, single player friendly. In fact if you go to the steam page, one of the descriptors of eso is “single player”.

There are many many players who don’t even want to be in a guild, much less in a group. Shall I reference the many, many threads complaining about how the selling system is “locked” behind guild membership?

There is more, there are people who have anxiety with strangers, people who just RP and may not be equipped for something of this difficulty, etc.

This “dungeon” (because that is what it basically is) is a very marked departure in design philosophy of eso. It’s going to have pain points. Just because it’s great for people who enjoy grouped difficult content, does mean that it plays well with everyone.

•••

Guilds can’t do this as a scheduled activity as it is limited to four people. And everyone has to have Necrom. If it accompanied variable group sizes that may have been better in a way.

Solo players will have difficulty doing it as there appears to be no automated group creator for it. They have to spam in zone chat etc, which means their participation is limited to the whims of others (which is basically gate keeping).

Casual players can’t do this as their dps/play style may not mesh with the difficulty requirements.

New players can’t do this. Let’s pretend a one, (two?) sub 30 no cp players want to do this. Would you want to group up?

•••

To me this should have been a daily placed in the undaunted enclave. That seems to be really what the intended audience is for. The ToT card lead should be removed in the very least as well.
And it should also not be accessible to players who don’t have the cp requirements.

BlueRaven

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Cireous wrote: »

I do have to give some credit where credit is due:

On day one of this Chapter, they're giving us a Chapter zone, a DLC zone, and, even, SURPRISE, a 4-man vet dungeon. So that's like, 3 quarters worth of content in 1 quarter (sort of). Bravo in that respect.

A 4-man vet dungeon with a ToT fragment tied to it. I would call that a surprise.

...Without a group finder... meaning that it is more like an Arena or Trial.

However... I managed to solo it... but it took around 3 hours for the entire quest (yikes !) I had to be very tanky (healing set + a lot of passives healing & health recovery + max cp). So despite having a decent dps for this type of setup (around 30K) it still took way too long. Also I did not explored the whole dungeon - only areas necessary to complete the "World Eventt" daily quest.

The most disappointing thing was the reward. For 3 hours of doing challenging content alone, all I got was a regular daily reward box with an overland gear set. I am better off doing other 2 daily quest 2 times (main & alt characters). Other than achievements and doing it once just to clear the map, I don't see a reason to do this daily.

In its current state, it takes way, way too much time. I can imagine that even if you are in group it is still way too much hassle for what you are getting in return. People are better of doing Undaunted dailies, as at least those have appropriate rewards.

This quest needs to be way shorter. Like.. idk... kill 2 or 3 world bosses instead of 5 and then only one boss inside a dungeon - and the rest as "optional objective", or even make the whole dungeon as "optional objective".

Also the adds during 1st stage of the quest (Overland) and 2nd stage (Dungeon) are just unnecessary. With the setup I had even multiple enemies could not kill me & I could "stand in stupid" and live. But even with around 30K dps, every mob, every add, every boss was a "bullet sponge". Pixel, by pixel, I slowly lowered the health bars down. It was not hard. It was long. Too long. I mean, how long does it take to do a "World Event" quest like a Harrowstorm or Dolmen ? This is suppose to be an equivalent of such quest, right ?

This dungeon could really use an "Endless Dungeon" mode (2 players or 1 player + companion). Then it would be at least fun.

I concur 100%.

I find it a bit amusing that it rewards an overland blue though. They should keep that as the reward.

ADarklore

Tessitura wrote: »

You can solo Craglorn, so groups don't usually have to show up for that. But Craglorn was popular for many years. Only reason people are not there much anymore is because what they get for it is no longer bis for most classes. People still farm exp there though. You see them grouping outside of Skyreach, and running Spellscar also farming nirncrux.

I also still see groups running Harrowstorms too. The reward matters more then the difficulty. If the reward stays good people keep doing them. If not they dont. At least with the Nymics its four people, so you are more likely to experience it the same as people did day one, five years later. If they are so inclined to experience it.

Actually, Craglorn was NOT popular for "many years". It was popular when it was initially added, BUT, once groups completed it, it fell off the charts and became a complete dead zone due to it being a 'group' zone whereas the main game was solo focused. ZOS stated that they would NEVER, repeat, NEVER do another group zone again due to Craglorn being so unpopular.

ADarklore

It seems to me, if I recall correctly, when discussing the Bastion Nymic, didn't they mention "or taking your companion" into it? It seems like I remember them mentioning soloing with a companion. Perhaps them adding the crafted set to buff companions by reducing their cooldowns were their answer to solo players running this content.

Ghanima_Atreides

ADarklore wrote: »

Tessitura wrote: »

You can solo Craglorn, so groups don't usually have to show up for that. But Craglorn was popular for many years. Only reason people are not there much anymore is because what they get for it is no longer bis for most classes. People still farm exp there though. You see them grouping outside of Skyreach, and running Spellscar also farming nirncrux.

I also still see groups running Harrowstorms too. The reward matters more then the difficulty. If the reward stays good people keep doing them. If not they dont. At least with the Nymics its four people, so you are more likely to experience it the same as people did day one, five years later. If they are so inclined to experience it.

Actually, Craglorn was NOT popular for "many years". It was popular when it was initially added, BUT, once groups completed it, it fell off the charts and became a complete dead zone due to it being a 'group' zone whereas the main game was solo focused. ZOS stated that they would NEVER, repeat, NEVER do another group zone again due to Craglorn being so unpopular.

Yes. I remember that for years, doing anything in Craglorn was nigh impossible due to the fact that there was nobody around to group with, and the content was not soloable. People would sit in town asking for help, and nobody would reply. That's the very reason they lowered the difficulty so that it is soloable nowadays.

BlueRaven

ADarklore wrote: »

It seems to me, if I recall correctly, when discussing the Bastion Nymic, didn't they mention "or taking your companion" into it? It seems like I remember them mentioning soloing with a companion. Perhaps them adding the crafted set to buff companions by reducing their cooldowns were their answer to solo players running this content.

You are thinking of the endless dungeon. Strangely that “dungeon “ seems more solo friendly this “world event”.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Katheriah wrote: »

Why is 'locked/gated behind group content' considered to be an argument in an MMO? Difficulty can always be a discussion obviously, but let's not pretend content is being 'gated' just for being group content. It's a choice to only play solo in an MMO, something you're doing to yourself.

The prblem is that is sold as and treated as a daily world event when its clearly a dungeon. They really should have either just made a dungeon or a real world event

Serenez

I have no problem with this level of content. What I do have an issue with is the gating of the TOT fragment behind Veteran level content.

What this does is gate Tales of Tribute requiring you to be Veteran Level to get the new fragment OR for new players or lower level players to beg and plead in zone chat, guild, friends etc., for someone to 'carry' them through an extremely time consuming quest.

You do not need a crystal ball to see how this will unfold if things remain as is.

I commented in the official Feedback thread here as to my solutions for this issue:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/631596/
First:
I will say though gating a TOT card behind extremely challenging content will likely not go over well. My suggestion is to have it drop from one of the 5 bosses outside/rather than inside the 'dungeon like' instance. This way the 5 bosses kind of act like Overland World Bosses where people could just run up and kill them alongside who ever else is in the proximity without having to actually group with others. Then both the 'group' aspect and the 'dungeon like' aspect are not gating the TOT fragment.

Second:
Although I am sure it said something when I picked up the Daily - it wasn't quite clear of the difficulty level or what I was getting myself into.

Third:
I would recommend for the 5 bosses from the part 1 to change it to 3 for the essence of the time sync for this quest OR break this into two quests entirely. Having the 5 bosses be 1 quest for the 'daily' and then mark the Part 2 as more of a 'Dungeon experience' and maybe add it to the Dungeon Group finder or some other finder mechanic.

This one isn't going to give any suggestions on the actual combat difficulty of either the 5 bosses or the 'dungeon like' instance as I am not really that experienced with these types of mechanics.

Serenez

Also for those talking about the rewards, if you look in the Journal - Achievements - For Bastion Nymic there are components to this area that I completely overlooked when I first did this quest.

There is a:

Treasure room, but I do not know what is inside ! Or even how to unlock it. There are also some sort of puzzles to figure out, so there is more to this Bastion Nymic that needs to be looked into !