Bastion Nymic Daily.... Who is the intended audience for this?

BlueRaven

It's a daily quest INTENDED for premade groups? I don't understand. Is this a thing? Was there a demand for overland daily content made for premade groups and I just missed it?

Here are the problems...

The 5 overland bosses hit like trucks. To me they are not soloable but I have to kill five(?!!), so even if I fight a boss other people are killing chances are we are at different parts of the collection quest.
So if they started earlier they are gone before I get my five, if they started later, then I have to follow them around.

And I have no idea what happens after the portal part, does it get even harder? I don't know, because I can't get to that part. People are already giving up on the daily.

How am I supposed to do this daily every day? I don't have a consistent log in time, neither does anyone I know. Is their going to be a group finder for an overland daily?

When I do the daily WB quests, I am alone. I just wait by the boss and just join other people who may show up. I know other people mostly do this as well. No grouping required. Is that even possible with this quest?

Also with other dailies people want to get them done ASAP, this one will take a long time to get done. Everyone is scattered looking for them and hoping some stranger comes and helps, and we have to do this five times?

I am just dumfounded that so much effort was spent on a daily that I know is bound to be extremely unpopular with the player base.

My suggestion redo this daily completely so that it can be done with much smaller groups of individual players. Because after a month no one is going to be doing this daily anymore, no one.

OR:

Add a fourth daily that is not aimed at preformed groups because this one is just ridiculous. As far as I am concerned right now. There are only two dailies in this chapter.

BTW: Stop doing stuff like this! No one can do harrowstorms anymore, they are dead content now because they can't even be done with two people.
And it looks to me you spent way more of a budget on this. This is just bad design.

Pelanora

If you can't do it, don't do it?

Some customer/ user testing might have been a good idea, but there are guilds who form groups who go do stuff together?

Harrowstorms are so three years ago.

BlueRaven

Pelanora wrote: »

If you can't do it, don't do it?

Some customer/ user testing might have been a good idea, but there are guilds who form groups who go do stuff together?

Harrowstorms are so three years ago.

And dolmens were done when the game started and people still do them because they are possible to do solo and they are over quickly.

Was there a forum post somewhere about guilds interested in daily grouped overland content? Really?

My guilds have WB runs and the like, but that is once per week, not a daily guild activity. And not something this structured. No one can jump in halfway through. Or leave and finish it later.
And are guilds going to form a daily activity that requires the newest chapter anyway?

And even regular trial groups don't go every day.

Blackwood had those portals, that popularity did not last very long. Why? For basically the same problems they have here, but Necrom feels like it tripled(x2) down on it.
Here is a daily that basically requires six (possibly more) world boss kills. That is not something people will want to do everyday.

The dailies should be made for the actual people interested in doing dailies every day. And they need to scale, so that even if there is just two people they can do it. And they can't take a whole evening to complete.

Marto

BlueRaven wrote: »

How am I supposed to do this daily every day?

Maybe you don't, if you don't want to. Just because the quest resets after a day doesn't mean you have to do it everyday you log-in.

BlueRaven wrote: »

I don't have a consistent log in time, neither does anyone I know. Is their going to be a group finder for an overland daily?

Ask people in zone chat, same way you would if you needed help with any other harder overland content, like world bosses or some public dungeons.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Also with other dailies people want to get them done ASAP.

And have you considered that dailies you can finish so quickly and effortlessly are not a good thing?

BlueRaven

Marto wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

How am I supposed to do this daily every day?

Maybe you don't, if you don't want to. Just because the quest resets after a day doesn't mean you have to do it everyday you log-in.

BlueRaven wrote: »

I don't have a consistent log in time, neither does anyone I know. Is their going to be a group finder for an overland daily?

Ask people in zone chat, same way you would if you needed help with any other harder overland content, like world bosses or some public dungeons.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Also with other dailies people want to get them done ASAP.

And have you considered that dailies you can finish so quickly and effortlessly are not a good thing?

This is effectively killing six (plus?) world bosses as a daily. How popular do you think that will be? They had a daily that was to kill three dragons at one time, and they changed that to one, because no one was doing it if it required three.

Edit: Meant harrowstorms not dragons. Sorry.

Tessitura

Actually yes, for a long, long time. People have been asking for more difficult overworld content since they got a taste of original Craglorn. Not all content is made for everyone. Not everyone's idea of fun is the same. Let those who have wanted this, have it.

BlueRaven

And I gave my feed back. That is what the PTS is for, right?

This daily quest is awful. That is my feedback. Just awful, for the reasons given.

Arcanasx

Yeah, imagine them making some content not necessarily intended for those playing it as the Elder Solo's Offline in an MMO game.

Saucy_Jack

For what it's worth, I agree with @BlueRaven wholeheartedly.

TheDarkRuler

BlueRaven wrote: »

This is effectively killing six (plus?) world bosses as a daily. How popular do you think that will be? They had a daily that was to kill three dragons at one time, and they changed that to one, because no one was doing it if it required three.

Last time i looked the dragon dailies in Elsweyr still required 3 dragons.

BlueRaven

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

This is effectively killing six (plus?) world bosses as a daily. How popular do you think that will be? They had a daily that was to kill three dragons at one time, and they changed that to one, because no one was doing it if it required three.

Last time i looked the dragon dailies in Elsweyr still required 3 dragons.

My mistake. I meant harrowstorms. Sorry. I will fix that. (It’s late I had memory lapse.)

SilverBride

Tessitura wrote: »

Actually yes, for a long, long time. People have been asking for more difficult overworld content since they got a taste of original Craglorn. Not all content is made for everyone. Not everyone's idea of fun is the same. Let those who have wanted this, have it.

With that being said, we do recognize a lot of people want increased overland difficulty and the new world events (Bastion Nymics) that are instanced for up to 4 players in Necrom is one of our answers to that.

https://eso-u.com/articles/eso_developer_ama__las_vegas_global_reveal_2023

colossalvoids

I don't mind it if it's actually harder, but as an "answer" to the harder overland it flying above my head. We're saying we don't want to have our little reservations but being able to experience the game, and we're getting another reservation... What.

Edit: if it's promotes grouping I'd say it's a good thing, also more complex daily quests are a breath of fresh air after mind melting run as fast as you can, kill boss in seconds, run back quests we're having each single time. They're boring and bring nothing. Would probably try it on PTS to see if that's a complete miss or it's at least have something to it.

Zodiarkslayer

My guess is, that Bastion Nymic was supposed to be one of or the dungeon of the Q3 DLC. Then someone decided to cancel that dungeon dlc and go for QoL improvements instead.

But the content had already progressed too far to be scrapped: So it had to go somewhere...

And we all like to SOLO dungeons, right? ...

Because we all can SOLO Dungeons, right? ...

....

....

...

.... right....

spartaxoxo

Looks like fun. I wonder if I'll be able to solo it. I can do Harrow storms alone so if it's on par with that, I shouldn't have an issue as long as they physically allow me to do so.

SilverBride wrote: »

Tessitura wrote: »

Actually yes, for a long, long time. People have been asking for more difficult overworld content since they got a taste of original Craglorn. Not all content is made for everyone. Not everyone's idea of fun is the same. Let those who have wanted this, have it.

With that being said, we do recognize a lot of people want increased overland difficulty and the new world events (Bastion Nymics) that are instanced for up to 4 players in Necrom is one of our answers to that.

https://eso-u.com/articles/eso_developer_ama__las_vegas_global_reveal_2023

Oh this is the group event for people in the overland thread and who have stated they wanted vet overland content elsweyr?

It's me. Hi! I'm the problem it's me. lol

KS_Amt38

Imagine making a group overland content in an Online Game. What a bad idear
#Feedback I like the new daily, keep it as it is.

FeedbackOnly

BlueRaven wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

If you can't do it, don't do it?

Some customer/ user testing might have been a good idea, but there are guilds who form groups who go do stuff together?

Harrowstorms are so three years ago.

And dolmens were done when the game started and people still do them because they are possible to do solo and they are over quickly.

Was there a forum post somewhere about guilds interested in daily grouped overland content? Really?

My guilds have WB runs and the like, but that is once per week, not a daily guild activity. And not something this structured. No one can jump in halfway through. Or leave and finish it later.
And are guilds going to form a daily activity that requires the newest chapter anyway?

And even regular trial groups don't go every day.

Blackwood had those portals, that popularity did not last very long. Why? For basically the same problems they have here, but Necrom feels like it tripled(x2) down on it.
Here is a daily that basically requires six (possibly more) world boss kills. That is not something people will want to do everyday.

The dailies should be made for the actual people interested in doing dailies every day. And they need to scale, so that even if there is just two people they can do it. And they can't take a whole evening to complete.

Aren't the most popular dolmen ... because of the wayshrine and more people?

FeedbackOnly

BlueRaven wrote: »

It's a daily quest INTENDED for premade groups? I don't understand. Is this a thing? Was there a demand for overland daily content made for premade groups and I just missed it?

Here are the problems...

The 5 overland bosses hit like trucks. To me they are not soloable but I have to kill five(?!!), so even if I fight a boss other people are killing chances are we are at different parts of the collection quest.
So if they started earlier they are gone before I get my five, if they started later, then I have to follow them around.

And I have no idea what happens after the portal part, does it get even harder? I don't know, because I can't get to that part. People are already giving up on the daily.

How am I supposed to do this daily every day? I don't have a consistent log in time, neither does anyone I know. Is their going to be a group finder for an overland daily?

When I do the daily WB quests, I am alone. I just wait by the boss and just join other people who may show up. I know other people mostly do this as well. No grouping required. Is that even possible with this quest?

Also with other dailies people want to get them done ASAP, this one will take a long time to get done. Everyone is scattered looking for them and hoping some stranger comes and helps, and we have to do this five times?

I am just dumfounded that so much effort was spent on a daily that I know is bound to be extremely unpopular with the player base.

My suggestion redo this daily completely so that it can be done with much smaller groups of individual players. Because after a month no one is going to be doing this daily anymore, no one.

OR:

Add a fourth daily that is not aimed at preformed groups because this one is just ridiculous. As far as I am concerned right now. There are only two dailies in this chapter.

BTW: Stop doing stuff like this! No one can do harrowstorms anymore, they are dead content now because they can't even be done with two people.
And it looks to me you spent way more of a budget on this. This is just bad design.

They are introducing a premade group finder this year

Dark_Lord_Kuro

I dont think ill waste my time with those...you cant even just follow a group around since its instanced to only a 4 player group. Its just a dungeon in disguise. Ill just buy to motif in the crownstore once it release and that will be the end of it

ADarklore

Then after less than a year, nobody will be running these and once again we'll have wasted content that people don't run because they cannot do it solo and some players will still be complaining about no difficult overland content because they don't want to run 'older content' anymore. Then ZOS won't bother to lower the difficulty to make them soloable for most people so that the content is actually utilized, much like Harrowstorms, that even when calling out for help in chat, nobody responds.

etchedpixels

We have instanced four man dungeon-lite content in Craglorn already, and people just solo it. Unless they've made it really hard I imagine it's mostly a solo content item for more experienced players, and somewhere to do group farming in a guild once a month.

SilverBride

ADarklore wrote: »

Then after less than a year, nobody will be running these and once again we'll have wasted content that people don't run because they cannot do it solo and some players will still be complaining about no difficult overland content because they don't want to run 'older content' anymore. Then ZOS won't bother to lower the difficulty to make them soloable for most people so that the content is actually utilized, much like Harrowstorms, that even when calling out for help in chat, nobody responds.

I couldn't agree more. This is exactly what I foresee happening, too.

Michaelkeir

I for one am delighted. I’ve been itching for more difficult overland content as is. I can solo just about every world boss, dlc world boss’s, and Harrowstorm in the game as is. So I guess people like me are the target audience. And if I need help with it, people in zone are always available. Even in old content like the Harrowstorm dailies people join from my experience. If I’m soloing one, at least every time a few people show up. And if I see someone in guild requesting help, I’ll help because I enjoy that group dynamic.

I mean I’d rather have options. The developers could have given us regular world boss like we currently have, but what’s the point if it’s all the same. Rush boss, boss dies in secs, turn in daily. Rinse and repeat. Options are good. I mean I don’t care for pvp, but I do partake in it from time to time to spice things up from the norm. I understand that pvp is not targeted at me, but I won’t take away from those who enjoy it. If the content is not to your liking then move on to something that is and let us who enjoy it enjoy it.

Necrotech_Master

harrowstorms are definitely not impossible to do solo

but i do see the inherent problems with stuff like that for most players, harrowstorms definitely do not scale well if you are in a low damage group

dragons are also in the same group, not impossible to solo but very difficult, these events will be the new dragons depending on what kind of reward structure there is

Serenez

First off I want to thank the poor soul that grouped with me in overland to do this quest lol. This one here is not a dungeon person and didn't quite understand what she was getting into.

After multiple deaths at the final boss, the two of us managed to complete this. This one was not prepared that is for sure lol.

There are still 2 other dailies people can do, and leave this one for those that want difficult content. I am perfectly fine leaving this to others and IF I do this again, I will at least know what I am getting into and have 3 other fully aware individuals.

The Charm at the final boss is what kept killing me as I was unable to use my skills or even move. Once I have a grasp of the mechanics and know how to avoid this Charm either by block, or being able to purge it, I may actually live lol. If anyone has any insights I would like to hear them.

Also I would like to know what level equivalent this is whether it is 'Normal' dungeon level or 'Veteran' dungeon level.

wolfie1.0.

Arcanasx wrote: »

Yeah, imagine them making some content not necessarily intended for those playing it as the Elder Solo's Offline in an MMO game.

Imagine playing in an mmo where you need assistance to complete a task but are unable to find it. In some instances it's not about a players willingness to seek help or collaborate with others it's about the ability to find it.

Are you offering to sit in the zone 24/7 and aid people until the game shuts down?

Often it's not about how things are now that matters but how long it can be sustained. Sure things should be hard to solo, but they also should be possible to do so in the event that it's needed.

Faulgor

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Yeah, imagine them making some content not necessarily intended for those playing it as the Elder Solo's Offline in an MMO game.

Imagine playing in an mmo where you need assistance to complete a task but are unable to find it. In some instances it's not about a players willingness to seek help or collaborate with others it's about the ability to find it.

Are you offering to sit in the zone 24/7 and aid people until the game shuts down?

Often it's not about how things are now that matters but how long it can be sustained. Sure things should be hard to solo, but they also should be possible to do so in the event that it's needed.

You could say the same about any multiplayer content in the game.
I certainly have trouble finding dungeon groups to farm certain motives or achievements - usually you only have a chance when that particular dungeon is the daily pledge.
But that is no reason not to add multiplayer content. The longevity of content will depend on its reward.

valenwood_vegan

Sounds like more content that will be dead after the initial shine wears off. The early adopters of Necrom will likely partake at first, complete the challenge and move on. Future players will beg for help, only to be told to git good, find a group, it's EZ. Unfortunate.

ADarklore

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Sounds like more content that will be dead after the initial shine wears off. The early adopters of Necrom will likely partake at first, complete the challenge and move on. Future players will beg for help, only to be told to git good, find a group, it's EZ. Unfortunate.

THIS^ is exactly what will happen. Look at Craglorn, it was originally a 'group' zone but it failed so miserably they had to completely redesign it. "Group" overland content appeals only to a very small number of players, but it impacts ALL of the players. So making overland content that only a small number will play, briefly, before moving on... seems like a complete waste of developer resources. Look at what Harrowstorms have become today. And people that say, "If you need help, just call out in zone chat" clearly have never done this before... because if they had, they would see that few, if any, actually respond. The older the "group overland" content, the more dead it becomes. If ZOS really wanted to make these useful, they would lower the difficulty after a period of time... making them more easily soloable or adjust difficulty based upon how many people are running the content at the time, like Dolmens do.

Marto

ADarklore wrote: »

Then after less than a year, nobody will be running these and once again we'll have wasted content that people don't run because they cannot do it solo and some players will still be complaining about no difficult overland content because they don't want to run 'older content' anymore. Then ZOS won't bother to lower the difficulty to make them soloable for most people so that the content is actually utilized, much like Harrowstorms, that even when calling out for help in chat, nobody responds.

If anything, these activities being tailored for groups ensures the activity continues to be fun and engaging years into the future.

If one year from now Bastion Nymics turn out to be wildly unpopular, and only a dozen people in the entire server are doing them... The experience these 12 players have will be virtually identical to the experience at launch. The same cannot be said for Deadlands portals, Volcanic fissures, or any other world event or world boss, where popularity directly impacts the experience.

The popularity of Bastion Nymics only indirectly affects the experience by making it harder to find a group. But if you find a guild, poke some friends, or ask around in zone chat, you can find players willing to do any content in the game. And unless ESO's playerbase drops to 1/50th what it is today, that won't change.

Morimizo

@BlueRaven , agree 100%. Knew from the instant I read the PTS notes that this system was not for me (the new Witches Festival's forced, instanced group thing was not enjoyed or repeated).

What I find exasperating is that these Nymics will probably be required to obtain one of the Almalexia card fragments, various antiquities (including a mythic or two probably), the new music box, etc. (basing this on the High Isle structuring). So while I wholeheartedly support there being more options for other folks to enjoy this game (like higher difficulties), why should this be a barrier to what is added to established normal difficulty, soloable game types?