Mara nerf not enough

ForumBully

It seems like the pre-PTS testing is lacking when every single broken idea is pointed out within minutes of the initial PTS update.

React

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Currently, we are keeping a close eye on new sets like Mara's Balm and will continue to tune over time. We need more data for seeing how the sets will be used and in what situations. Then the team will adjust as needed. So please keep up with feedback.

Can you explain the reasoning behind using this model for adjusting sets? Using long term metrics to balance sets that immediately introduce wild game play imbalances and thus become meta for months just doesn't seem ideal. I understand completely changing the functionality of a set or skill completely might take time. But surely things such as length of cooldown, the size of a radius effect and the damage or healing coefficients of a set or skill could be adjusted more frequently to fine tune them when simply playing for a few hours a week on the different classes makes it clear when something is over/under performing.
It felt like things were headed in a good direction when the Devs listened to the well reasoned feedback on Snake in the Stars and made logical adjustments to the set so quickly. But this statement significantly dims my hope that we might be seeing a better correlation between well reasoned feedback from actual game play experience and prompt, smaller and more frequent adjustments to keep game-play healthy.

Ultimately, it boils down to to seeing more player metrics for how something performs. And that's not to say we are not testing and balancing before items go into the wild. We are testing and balancing to the best of our ability before and after hitting PTS. A wider group of players are bound to use items and skills in different ways. Players are very crafty! PTS is great for seeing early indicators of this. But having something on live and having PC/ Xbox/ and PlayStation users all using an item or skill give a better holistic view really helps to compare against PTS comments and adjust accordingly. Not saying this is perfect, but it is helpful for the team.

Your communication on the various balance topics today is greatly appreciated, and I know that more frequent communication of this nature won't go unnoticed by the community.

That said, the reasoning for allowing this set to remain this way is flawed. What player metrics specifically are the team using to determine how this set is performing? It would be really helpful to understand this.

The problem with PVP in ESO is that it cannot simply be boiled down to pure numbers, like the PVE side of the game can. In order to properly understand PVP balance, you must be a frequent PVP player. I'm not talking about firing siege at a keep from within a 12 man group either - you must be interacting with the PVP combat system in a meaningful way on a regular basis. There are nuances and situational factors that you simply will have no grasp of if you are not regularly doing this.

The changes (or lack there of) made to mara's balm, in spite of the ENORMOUS amount of feedback on what should be changed, are indicative of a team that does not participate in PVP in any meaningful way. It is incredibly frustrating to wait months for adjustments to a clearly overperforming set, only to receive inadequate adjustments from a team that is justifying their decisions based on some obscure "player metrics".

There are players here on the forums with tens of thousands of PVP hours offering you clear examples and explanations as to what needs to change about this set. Ignoring these people and justifying your inadequate adjustments with "player metrics" rather than actual PVP experience is just a huge slap in the face.

ForumBully

When you don't really want a dialogue, it's useful to be purposefully vague and cite data to which there is limited or no access. There is no way for an outsider to engage in a discussion centered around insider information.

VixxVexx

Appreciate the constant feedback on these threads though, it's making rounds in all the discords.



So this set won't receive any meaningful changes until the next patch, which is the chapter. So a full year will have gone by.

• The 15s cleanse gives you upwards of 25% effective mitigation in a player v player situation, that's like 16k armor. No set comes close to this.
• The HoT is about 450 hps which is equal to 900 health recovery, which is 1800 before battle spirit. Remember, you nerfed health recovery because it was too much passive healing.
• On top of this, it also has a burst heal.

Derra

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's still a relatively new set to the meta, since it was only added in U35. The team takes a good look at these sets for several update cycles before determining if it's in a good place after getting player feedback. So it's still a "new" set, all things considered.

I honestly don´t know how you expect people to continue giving constructive feedback on this with a straight face.

There is a set with a very comparable effect: Wyrd Trees Blessing. It removes all negative effects every 15s.

HOWEVER this set (wyrd tree) requires active player input to remove those effects. Maras simply removes them passively when you´ve accumulated enough of them.
Mara`s requires no player input. It works automatically - for me personally this would require the effect to be less powerful than a comparable set effect requiring active player input (ie longer cooldown or limited number of effects).

Then mara's heals for every effect removed with the purge.
On top of that mara's also heals for every effect that gets reapplied up to once every second.

It is not even on the same planet as wyrd trees blessing when looking at the powerbudged of the 5p.

Anyone who thinks more than 30s about those two sets can only come to one of these two conclusions: Wyrd tree is massively underpowered or mara's is massively OP.
Now most players actively providing feedback on mara's are telling you extensively how the set is perceived in pvp.

I don´t know what else to say on this - and i for sure can´t imagine for one second what someone would have to continue to evaluate regarding it´s strengh.

TechMaybeHic

Saw it countless times last night. Fighting someone, they run around a lot, you almost have them, then their sword and shield popup because they flipped to their backbar, and they get a tick of damage. BOOM! Back to full health with what had to be at least 20k heal after battle spirit. Even better if they are DK and they do this to keep them up until next corrosive, then go on a killing spree. Rinse and repeat.

Is that the clever use you're referring to?

Maybe I should be glad as I was playing my templar. If they had double barred it, I wouldn't have done any damage. Hoorah!

FWIW; I'm using it myself. Why wouldn't I?

Tommy_The_Gun

I guess that ZOS's data whenever something is OP or not is mostly based on "popularity". If something is too popular - it is going to get nerfed. With that being said there are a couple of additional factors involved. Some players simply know that:
- "No way this set is going to stay like this, it is busted and it going to get nerfed hard, therefore I am not even going to bother with grinding & golding it out." - so automatically less players are using item set in question.
- There are also players who definitely play less and it will take time for them to grind the set (as guild traders prices are ridiculous).
- We also have players who mained no-cp & no-proc Campaigns, so it does not affect them at all.

That leaves only regular CP Campaign "meta chasers" & hard-core competitive PvP players to use the new gear instantly.

Item sets that are easier to obtain are getting nerfed faster. Remember how Sload set got nerfed quite fast ? It is a Crafted set. Very similar case with Oakensoul. It got nerfed fast because more people got it, as it was useful for PvE too.

Much time, has passed since this set was introduced, so seeing how ZOS is still "unsure" whenever Mara is OP or not is um... troublesome for me (an ESO Player). Because it is not just about Mara, but rather an indicator of ZOS's ability to balance item sets out. I am telling you - within a year (or month) we will have same discussion about Snake In Stars or Shell Splitter set, even after a nerf or two. You know why ? Because every PvP sourced set Devs added in recent years is kinda "game breaking" in its core. It does not matter what numbers you change or how many seconds of cooldown you add. Certain sets should have never been added into the game in a 1st place.

Because now, If I make a build & plan things out, the question I ask is not:
- "What am I going to do If I meet X class that can counter my build with this or that way",
but rather:
- What am I going to do against X set that every one can (and will) wear and will counter my build in this or that way ? What sets I can wear to counter some one else sets ?
I don't think we should ever have this type of dilemma. Game Breaking things are toxic and make game play experience (and even players) toxic.

I appreciate the communication though, as it gives some insights into developer's point of view.

Necrotech_Master

ForumBully wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Currently, we are keeping a close eye on new sets like Mara's Balm and will continue to tune over time. We need more data for seeing how the sets will be used and in what situations. Then the team will adjust as needed. So please keep up with feedback.

Can you explain the reasoning behind using this model for adjusting sets? Using long term metrics to balance sets that immediately introduce wild game play imbalances and thus become meta for months just doesn't seem ideal. I understand completely changing the functionality of a set or skill completely might take time. But surely things such as length of cooldown, the size of a radius effect and the damage or healing coefficients of a set or skill could be adjusted more frequently to fine tune them when simply playing for a few hours a week on the different classes makes it clear when something is over/under performing.
It felt like things were headed in a good direction when the Devs listened to the well reasoned feedback on Snake in the Stars and made logical adjustments to the set so quickly. But this statement significantly dims my hope that we might be seeing a better correlation between well reasoned feedback from actual game play experience and prompt, smaller and more frequent adjustments to keep game-play healthy.

Ultimately, it boils down to to seeing more player metrics for how something performs. And that's not to say we are not testing and balancing before items go into the wild. We are testing and balancing to the best of our ability before and after hitting PTS. A wider group of players are bound to use items and skills in different ways. Players are very crafty! PTS is great for seeing early indicators of this. But having something on live and having PC/ Xbox/ and PlayStation users all using an item or skill give a better holistic view really helps to compare against PTS comments and adjust accordingly. Not saying this is perfect, but it is helpful for the team.

"Players are crafty" is the reason that players figure out the negative implications of changes during week one of any given PTS, consistently? Or is it just that devs want to give their bad ideas a few months in the sun simply because they refuse to accept the findings?

"players are crafty" is more referring to how a player is using a tool added by the developer in a completely unintentional/unthought of way than what the developer had in mind

though i agree that stuff like maras balm should have been a red flag from the get go (which is why its basically undergone nerfs at almost every major update cycle since release lol)

ForumBully

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Currently, we are keeping a close eye on new sets like Mara's Balm and will continue to tune over time. We need more data for seeing how the sets will be used and in what situations. Then the team will adjust as needed. So please keep up with feedback.

Can you explain the reasoning behind using this model for adjusting sets? Using long term metrics to balance sets that immediately introduce wild game play imbalances and thus become meta for months just doesn't seem ideal. I understand completely changing the functionality of a set or skill completely might take time. But surely things such as length of cooldown, the size of a radius effect and the damage or healing coefficients of a set or skill could be adjusted more frequently to fine tune them when simply playing for a few hours a week on the different classes makes it clear when something is over/under performing.
It felt like things were headed in a good direction when the Devs listened to the well reasoned feedback on Snake in the Stars and made logical adjustments to the set so quickly. But this statement significantly dims my hope that we might be seeing a better correlation between well reasoned feedback from actual game play experience and prompt, smaller and more frequent adjustments to keep game-play healthy.

Ultimately, it boils down to to seeing more player metrics for how something performs. And that's not to say we are not testing and balancing before items go into the wild. We are testing and balancing to the best of our ability before and after hitting PTS. A wider group of players are bound to use items and skills in different ways. Players are very crafty! PTS is great for seeing early indicators of this. But having something on live and having PC/ Xbox/ and PlayStation users all using an item or skill give a better holistic view really helps to compare against PTS comments and adjust accordingly. Not saying this is perfect, but it is helpful for the team.

"Players are crafty" is the reason that players figure out the negative implications of changes during week one of any given PTS, consistently? Or is it just that devs want to give their bad ideas a few months in the sun simply because they refuse to accept the findings?

"players are crafty" is more referring to how a player is using a tool added by the developer in a completely unintentional/unthought of way than what the developer had in mind

though i agree that stuff like maras balm should have been a red flag from the get go (which is why its basically undergone nerfs at almost every major update cycle since release lol)

It's concerning that players can and do spot problems and report them almost immediately after the PTS starts and yet nothing happens most of the time. It's more concerning that devs don't see (or understand) those problems before the PTS even starts, what with all the internal testing they apparently do.
It can only mean that they intend to cause these problems or that they simply don't understand the game, or aspects of the game (PvP), well enough to identify them.

Billium813

Derra wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's still a relatively new set to the meta, since it was only added in U35. The team takes a good look at these sets for several update cycles before determining if it's in a good place after getting player feedback. So it's still a "new" set, all things considered.

I honestly don´t know how you expect people to continue giving constructive feedback on this with a straight face.

There is a set with a very comparable effect: Wyrd Trees Blessing. It removes all negative effects every 15s.

Just to play Devil's advocate for a moment, let's not forget that Wyrd Trees Blessing IS an Overland set. It makes sense that it would be far weaker than other sets since the target audience is new players.

Derra wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's still a relatively new set to the meta, since it was only added in U35. The team takes a good look at these sets for several update cycles before determining if it's in a good place after getting player feedback. So it's still a "new" set, all things considered.

HOWEVER this set (wyrd tree) requires active player input to remove those effects. Maras simply removes them passively when you´ve accumulated enough of them.
Mara`s requires no player input. It works automatically - for me personally this would require the effect to be less powerful than a comparable set effect requiring active player input (ie longer cooldown or limited number of effects).

Then mara's heals for every effect removed with the purge.
On top of that mara's also heals for every effect that gets reapplied up to once every second.

It is not even on the same planet as wyrd trees blessing when looking at the powerbudged of the 5p.

Anyone who thinks more than 30s about those two sets can only come to one of these two conclusions: Wyrd tree is massively underpowered or mara's is massively OP.
Now most players actively providing feedback on mara's are telling you extensively how the set is perceived in pvp.

I don´t know what else to say on this - and i for sure can´t imagine for one second what someone would have to continue to evaluate regarding it´s strengh.

That being said, I totally agree.

My main issues with Mara's Balm is the theoretical APM. It procs on EVERYTHING in the game! Everything in the game bestows, or has a mild chance to bestow, a negative effect or just re-applies a negative effect; even normal attacks! With absolutely no effort on the players part, it's just there in the background ticking away. It's essentially Beekeeper's Gear + (Wyrd Trees Blessing + Rally every 15 seconds)

Mara's Balms only real weakness is Burst, but it seems like ZOS doesn't like Burst anymore (PotL nerf). I get that it can lead to feel bads, I really do, but blocking is in the game and removing Burst strats leaves the door open for these kinds of effortless heal sets that grind out sooo much value over time that they punch above their weight.

Just look at DK for a moment. With no purges and only Vigor, they get to STACK their entire skill bar with nothing but damage thanks to Mara's Balm. They don't have to waste time with survivability actions cause the set itself does it for them. My Templar has to run like 4-5 skills that ONLY heal (Cleansing Ritual, Restoring Focus, HtD, Vigor, Living Dark). Each one of those abilities requires resources and an action to activate, making me waste time on defense rather than offense. With with Mara's Balm... why bother? If things go bad... you will restore to full health and can just backoff for 5 seconds, allowing another free restore in 10 seconds. It's kinda insane really.

TechMaybeHic

ForumBully wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Currently, we are keeping a close eye on new sets like Mara's Balm and will continue to tune over time. We need more data for seeing how the sets will be used and in what situations. Then the team will adjust as needed. So please keep up with feedback.

Can you explain the reasoning behind using this model for adjusting sets? Using long term metrics to balance sets that immediately introduce wild game play imbalances and thus become meta for months just doesn't seem ideal. I understand completely changing the functionality of a set or skill completely might take time. But surely things such as length of cooldown, the size of a radius effect and the damage or healing coefficients of a set or skill could be adjusted more frequently to fine tune them when simply playing for a few hours a week on the different classes makes it clear when something is over/under performing.
It felt like things were headed in a good direction when the Devs listened to the well reasoned feedback on Snake in the Stars and made logical adjustments to the set so quickly. But this statement significantly dims my hope that we might be seeing a better correlation between well reasoned feedback from actual game play experience and prompt, smaller and more frequent adjustments to keep game-play healthy.

Ultimately, it boils down to to seeing more player metrics for how something performs. And that's not to say we are not testing and balancing before items go into the wild. We are testing and balancing to the best of our ability before and after hitting PTS. A wider group of players are bound to use items and skills in different ways. Players are very crafty! PTS is great for seeing early indicators of this. But having something on live and having PC/ Xbox/ and PlayStation users all using an item or skill give a better holistic view really helps to compare against PTS comments and adjust accordingly. Not saying this is perfect, but it is helpful for the team.

"Players are crafty" is the reason that players figure out the negative implications of changes during week one of any given PTS, consistently? Or is it just that devs want to give their bad ideas a few months in the sun simply because they refuse to accept the findings?

"players are crafty" is more referring to how a player is using a tool added by the developer in a completely unintentional/unthought of way than what the developer had in mind

though i agree that stuff like maras balm should have been a red flag from the get go (which is why its basically undergone nerfs at almost every major update cycle since release lol)

It's concerning that players can and do spot problems and report them almost immediately after the PTS starts and yet nothing happens most of the time. It's more concerning that devs don't see (or understand) those problems before the PTS even starts, what with all the internal testing they apparently do.
It can only mean that they intend to cause these problems or that they simply don't understand the game, or aspects of the game (PvP), well enough to identify them.

This and the statistics references are what make people think the devs don't play the game. They don't see how things will be used, or how they are being used. They have to lean heavily on numbers collected over what feels like an eternity of game time to those playing it, to even realize something needs to change, and then the flawed process is started all over again to address it.

I know they do play the game. I just doubt it's at a knowledgeable level in PvP, and from the statistics I see from the top end PvEers; seems they don't there either

Billium813

Would this be too strong?

(5 items) When you remove a negative effect from yourself or a friendly target, restore 1675 Health. This effect can occur once every 1 second. When you take damage and have 6 or more negative effects, restore 1675 Health per negative effect and then cleanse all. This effect can occur once every 20 seconds.

Works with sets like Stendarr's Embrace & Curse Eater, skills like Purge, Cleansing Ritual (and synergies), Betty Netch, Expunge, & Renewing Undeath, and Break Free / removing snares on skills like Phantasmal Escape or Forward Momentum.

In this way, the first condition staples 1600 health to a physical action to remove negative effects. The second condition is the "get out of jail free" card. If you get in over your head, you get a burst heal for free and remove all effects.

To be frank, it feels like either one of those abilities could be a 5 piece set in an of themselves! But at least it requires players to do something to get 1/2 the set to proc.

LittlePinkDot

VixxVexx wrote: »

Outside of a heal per second and a burst heal it

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I'm not sure what DOT meta we are going toward other than hard hitting siege; but a free purge nullifies Templar and Sorc delayed burst automatically, and after the first time when it procs right at 6 effects, it goes into a 15 second cool down; it can purge unlimited effects that the heal then scales up with. So at min, it's around a 10k burst heal tooltip, but could easily double or more.

I'd lower it's proc condition to 4 or 5, and the limit it's purge to 4 or 5. Then double it's live HOT value but make it a 2 second CD as it's getting pointless on PTS, but at the same time it's oppressive to rapid small hits like jabs on live.

EDIT:. Also the way it is now; if you single bar Maras, you control when the burst heal comes so you just swap to that bar when you have more than 6 effects and when you need it and you just have yourself a bigger burst heal than what's you could get from an ability if you had 9 or 10 negative effects

No point in nerfing Maras, my pve Healer I bring into pvp does all that for my team. They can go full damage without maras.
Nobody is killing my peeps if I'm still alive.
😁

TechMaybeHic

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

It's still a relatively new set to the meta, since it was only added in U35. The team takes a good look at these sets for several update cycles before determining if it's in a good place after getting player feedback. So it's still a "new" set, all things considered.

Wish the teams would have taken care this long to see where Templar was after update 35 rather than just nerf Backlash in update 36. Funny how this much thought only applies when they want it to

KingLewie_III

We've been in a "tank meta" for years. If ZOS gives more damage, people build more resistances. It's how people choose to play this game that makes PVP unenjoyable. Most choose to build to take damage rather than deal damage. Even during the no-proc tests everyone was running around in Fortified Brass and Impreg.

Durham

This set is worn by almost every player in PVP at the moment. Its basically meta... This makes for horriable PVP! Think about all the sets in the game you have 1 that eveyone is wearing the little nerf that was attached to it will do little to solve the issue it will still be the go to set!

Bushido2513

KingLewie_III wrote: »

We've been in a "tank meta" for years. If ZOS gives more damage, people build more resistances. It's how people choose to play this game that makes PVP unenjoyable. Most choose to build to take damage rather than deal damage. Even during the no-proc tests everyone was running around in Fortified Brass and Impreg.

Not exactly correct. The problem is more of a balance issue but I will agree is related to how people play in that people tend to group up when built for damage forcing you to either have a group or build to be able to take damage. If say more balance was in play where you would still die in situations where you should but not die as quickly or due to lag then people would experiment more but currently if you aren't an experienced player experimenting usually just gets you steamrolled and not in a way that even feels somewhat understandable.

Bushido2513

Durham wrote: »

This set is worn by almost every player in PVP at the moment. Its basically meta... This makes for horriable PVP! Think about all the sets in the game you have 1 that eveyone is wearing the little nerf that was attached to it will do little to solve the issue it will still be the go to set!

This set is heavily used however it's not best in slot on some of the harder hitting classes that can survive just fine without it. What's actually making for horrible pvp is bad class balance, lag, and other factors that don't involve this set at all.

The set does indeed need balancing but take it away and you still have 3 classes that are tanky without it and still have good or great burst.

Until lag and combat balance are fixed people will just keep jumping from one defensive option to another. Or we'll just just swing to the other side where we had things like the dot meta or pre nerf oakensoul dk and so on and so on.

langewapper

mara works thanks to a bug in pvp
i play in pvp and got 10 or more burning effects on me who w'ont go away after purge
so every 15 second i got 1600 x 10 health + the other effects
zos have to remove these bug that all

Bushido2513

langewapper wrote: »

mara works thanks to a bug in pvp
i play in pvp and got 10 or more burning effects on me who w'ont go away after purge
so every 15 second i got 1600 x 10 health + the other effects
zos have to remove these bug that all

This does need addressing but it's also not something that happens in a way that is easily controlled.

By that I mean you have to go around and have random fights until the effects stay stacked and it's random from there. Definitely a bug but not as high on the list as several others.

i11ionward

Up

jhall03

Some players are happy with current mara’s and some players think it still needs tuning. Is there a chance we’ll see some further tuning?

I would like to see the cooldown for the burst heal and cleanse increased.

Nser

langewapper wrote: »

mara works thanks to a bug in pvp
i play in pvp and got 10 or more burning effects on me who w'ont go away after purge
so every 15 second i got 1600 x 10 health + the other effects
zos have to remove these bug that all

guess after this is fixed im perfectly fine with the set

TechMaybeHic

Nser wrote: »

langewapper wrote: »

mara works thanks to a bug in pvp
i play in pvp and got 10 or more burning effects on me who w'ont go away after purge
so every 15 second i got 1600 x 10 health + the other effects
zos have to remove these bug that all

guess after this is fixed im perfectly fine with the set

LOL That bug has been around for a long long time. Question is, which ones are actually accounted for and which ones are simply "visual bugs." Whatever they are, I don't think they are going to be fixed

Unified_Gaming

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Currently, we are keeping a close eye on new sets like Mara's Balm and will continue to tune over time. We need more data for seeing how the sets will be used and in what situations. Then the team will adjust as needed. So please keep up with feedback.

I'd like to make my feedback known Kevin and would welcome a reply. As a PvP player and content creator I'd like to share my perspective of the set and also adjustments I feel retain the identity of the set whilst not being stronger than many other ones.

I think the biggest issue is that mara's balm can purge all effects at once with a 15s cooldown. This cooldown is less than any sticky dot the game currently has i.e. flame reach is a 20s dot. I am somewhat confused because when the developers introduced the idea of these 'sticky' dots, it was explained that they do less damage per tick but last longer doing more in total and aid accessibility.

What concerns me is that Mara's Balm seems to contradict the intention of sticky dots and accessibility. With the set purging all effects and dots every 15s, you end up in a position where the changes to dots that aid accessibility without loosing power actually end up being a loss of power and damage because they can't run their full duration due to this set. As such, it isn't uncommon for people not to use dots at all or only use dots because of the bonus effect like elemental susceptibility giving major breach and not the damage.

It seems to me that this set alone nullifies many classes and builds such as dot dk or debuff tanks as they have to apply their dots and negative effects twice simply because Mara's would proc and remove all of them well before their duration has expired.

To compound the issue further, builds that stack dots or negative effects end up often healing the Mara's wearer as the set procs when dots or negative effects fall off or reapplied more than they do damage. As such, it is now rare to find someone who does not or has not used this set in PvP because of the power. It also worries me that with midyear on the way that many new pvp players will struggle to afford the set due to its high price because of its power and so they will either have to go without and have a significant disadvantage vs someone who has this or part with a lot of gold which understandably new pvp players often won't want to spend when trying something out.

The simple solution would be to decide if the set is a cleanse set or a healing set.

- If the set is targeted as a hybrid set between cleansing and healing then I'd suggest that the cleanse is limited to 5 negative effects with a 20s timer and leave the heal alone being similar in power to curse eater.

- If the set is a cleanse set you leave the cleanse all negative effects but remove the secondary heal

- If it is a healing set then remove the cleanse and increase the secondary heal "When 6 or more negative effects are on you this set doubles its heal"

This would stop instances where you get 10-15k heals from Mara's simply because you got hit you with 15 dots/negative effects when in an outnumbered situation.

Thanks for reading!

StarOfElyon

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Or they could buff the other sets to be comparative, rather than nerf the only functioning counter to the creeping DoT meta we’ve been moving towards.

No the solution is not to multiply problems. Maras is a problem that needs to be dealt with. I don't even wear Maras and I don't struggle against dots.

StarOfElyon

Beating anyone wearing Maras, or any proc damage or heal set for that matter, qualifies as a 1vX.

i11ionward

Mara's and DK are not nerfed I'm disappointed.

Nerhesi

The problem is free dots.

Why is the game inundated with free dots? Why do DKs get two status effects that out damage proc sets for free? Why do bleeds and poisons have a chance or soemtimes automatically apply a whole other strong dot (status effect)?

I want DoT to be a meta option. But it has to be at the cost of something else. The problem is the guy stacking dots on you is also packing hard hitting spammable, great heals and a nice stun/cc.

Ridiculous

Red99

Mara's balm and rallying cry will still be meta in pvp, still no changes have been made