Do we want a Bard class? why?

Sparxlost

"I know there were classes called bard, among others, but you didn’t go singing into battle. Is that what people were wanting? I can’t imagine how it would work in an MMO and not be obnoxious."

Well being a bard doesnt necessarily mean you HAVE to sing into battle.. You could give one mighty roar to buff yourself and allies, then ulilize spells small spells with clever poet type names or scrolls of magic... (ex. Might o Ice could be a frost damage skill, of course you wouldnt hear the bard say that every cast but when you saw them cast it you would know that it is the spell they were casting if that makes any sense xD) then most of their audio identity would probably come from their roaring or possibly laughter spells...

Sparxlost

yes

seems cool

code65536

doesn't fit in TES

Bard as a combat class makes as much sense as a chef class.

SpacemanSpiff1

yes

yes. a bard class is a much-needed feature.

what i really want though, is a chef class.

Artim_X

Skill-line.

TaSheen

yes

I've always made my own bards in previous games - I pick the sort of spells that are "roguish" (I don't have any of the games loaded right now as I'm getting ready to reinstall Oblivion and Skyrim so don't really have spell names at my fingertips), and usually use a sword or dagger as weapon, which leaves a hand free. Of course Skyrim has the bard mods available (for singing/playing for one's supper and a bed) but that's more on the line of the bards you see in this game rather than being its own "class".

Since we have had Shouts in TES V, and Tonal Architects among the Dwemer, I've never really found spell-using bards that out of range. But of course, that's just me. I've never really looked at what the lore says about it, because I don't really care as long as I can do what I want in the single player titles.

I think it's unlikely to happen in ESO, but I really do wish it would. I actually think it would be better as an additive skill line - along the same setup as antiquities.

fizzylu

no

While I do think FFXIV pulls a bard class off decently, any way I imagine ZoS trying to attempt it's own version seems like it'd be a terrible thing to witness and play. I think a bard line would make more sense as a guild or world skill line; I could see it featuring alternate choices for major brutality/sorcery, major prophecy/savagery, major resolve, any other buffs every build needs usually via battle cries/roars. Maybe even a little dance move, idk haha too bad we kind of missed out on the best timing for such a thing with Greymoor where the Bards College is.... seriously so much wasted potential in this game.

ADarklore

I know how Bard plays in FFXIV... it's a ranged archer class. Not sure how it would work in ESO and all the various weapon types; seems like it'd be a bit awkward.

I wish they'd add more RANGED weapons... 'bow' is outdated. They could add Chakrams like FFXIV did with Dancer class; just stand back and throw them at enemies. IMO it would work very well for ESO.

Bobargus

yes

code65536 wrote: »

Bard as a combat class makes as much sense as a chef class.

I mean, a chef class that gets additional offensive power from your character's provisioning skill level would be really interesting.

Or a rolling pin melee attack. Or a pan...

Agenericname

FBS94 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Bard as a combat class makes as much sense as a chef class.

I mean, a chef class that gets additional offensive power from your character's provisioning skill level would be really interesting.

Or a rolling pin melee attack. Or a pan...

If you have the Caldwell stylepages collected you have something like that already.

Danikat

For reference here's what the bard class involved in Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion. (Skyrim didn't have the option to choose starting skills, either by picking a class or custom set-up.)

The short version is it's not about singing, either in battle or outside of it. (Which IMO makes the name a bit inaccurate, but there we go.) They're more of a jack-of-all-trades class but with an emphasis on speech craft and intelligence, using their words to solve a problem instead of or as well as fighting, but with a wide variety of options when they do need to fight.

Arena

"A Bard is the proverbial "Jack of all Trades". They are able to perform many tasks, including but not limited to critical strikes, weapons skill, picking locks/pockets, and magic. They are a very versatile class, able to take up slack in almost any situation. Bards receive an amount equal to their Intelligence in spell points. A Bard's critical strike capability is useful when cornered by stronger opponents, though their chance to score is not as great as Thieves and the others in this subclass."

Can use Dagger, Shortsword, Broadsword, Mace, Saber, War Axe, Short Bow, medium (chain) armour and can cast spells but gets no bonuses to which ones they can cast.

Daggerfall

"Bards are the most versatile class, learned in many different arts. They are familiar with weaponry, magic, and the thiefly talents."

Their skills are: Streetwise, Etiquette, Pickpocket, Stealth, Short Blade, Hand-to-Hand, Lockpicking, Alteration, Illusion, Destruction, Archery, Restoration and they can use leather or chain armour.

Morrowind

"Bards are loremasters and storytellers. They crave adventure for the wisdom and insight to be gained, and must depend on sword, shield, spell and enchantment to preserve them from the perils of their educational experiences."

Attributes: Personality, Intelligence. Skills: Speechcraft, Alchemy, Acrobatics, Long Blade, Block, Mercantile, Illusion, Medium Armor, Enchant, Security.

Oblivion

"Intelligent and personable, they prefer to accomplish tasks with their words first, and sword second."

Attributes: Intelligence, Personality. Skills: Alchemy, Blade, Block, Illusion, Light Armor, Mercantile, Speechcraft


I'm not sure what they'd really contribute to ESO though. The speechcraft element is irrelevant because when we do get choices in quests it's open to everyone and otherwise I think they'd be too close to a nightblade or stamina templar.

colossalvoids

no

Classical bard won't do in ES setting, let alone ESO. Scrolls have "sound magic" but that's pretty different from some other fantasy people seem to be into.

We already have one btw - warden. It's as close to the "story telling" class we're getting I'm pretty sure.

phaneub17_ESO

doesn't fit in TES

Get 6 people surrounding you as you play an instrument, now have those 6 people start pushing you around while you attempt to play instrument, now have them start punching you, and finally have them start sticking pointy objects at you while you attempt to play your instrument. Tell me your results after.

SpacemanSpiff1

yes

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Get 6 people surrounding you as you play an instrument, now have those 6 people start pushing you around while you attempt to play instrument, now have them start punching you, and finally have them start sticking pointy objects at you while you attempt to play your instrument. Tell me your results after.

jazz?

Sparxlost

yes

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Get 6 people surrounding you as you play an instrument, now have those 6 people start pushing you around while you attempt to play instrument, now have them start punching you, and finally have them start sticking pointy objects at you while you attempt to play your instrument. Tell me your results after.

No one said you have to play an instrument to be an effective warrior poet...

you could make use of small rhymes as functional destruction spells or write spells on scrolls to use in combat.. your power over sound could turn your screams of rage into a huge debuff for enemies or your laughs into a source of confusion...

Sparxlost

yes

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Get 6 people surrounding you as you play an instrument, now have those 6 people start pushing you around while you attempt to play instrument, now have them start punching you, and finally have them start sticking pointy objects at you while you attempt to play your instrument. Tell me your results after.

and those are things that can be done almost just as swiftly as swinging a sword or casting a spell

Araneae6537

no

No, and it doesn’t fit in TES.

The poll options should simply be “yes” and “no” and then people can elaborate in comments as to why.

HappyTheCamper

yes

I don’t demand we get one. But like…they are definitely Elder Scrolls friendly. There were literal bard classes in the old games (Anyone play Oblivion lol?) I know classes in those games weren’t the same as ESO, but technically it is where we got nightblades from.

I am excited for Archanist, but I admit making a class specific to Hermaeus Mora is very pigeon-holey when trying to create a character. I could come up with a lot more vibrant characters if it was a bard.

Araneae6537

no

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

I don’t demand we get one. But like…they are definitely Elder Scrolls friendly. There were literal bard classes in the old games (Anyone play Oblivion lol?) I know classes in those games weren’t the same as ESO, but technically it is where we got nightblades from.

I am excited for Archanist, but I admit making a class specific to Hermaeus Mora is very pigeon-holey when trying to create a character. I could come up with a lot more vibrant characters if it was a bard.

Yes, there were Bard classes in many of the TES games but the didn’t go shouting, singing, or chanting into battle. All the TES skills (social skills, legerdemain, bargaining, etc.) are already integrated elsewhere such as they are.

Holycannoli

yes

Has nobody played classic Everquest? Or Dark Age Of Camelot? Bard classes can be a lot of fun and bring great utility to groups. DAOC had three varying versions of "bard":

Bard for Hibernia: https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/class-library-bard

Minstrel for Albion: https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/class-library-minstrel

Skald for Midgard: https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/class-library-skald

Slight variations on the same basic theme of music as magic. If devs 20 years ago can come up with three variations of the class I'm sure ZOS can come up with one.

And it can fit Elder Scrolls lore just fine. If dragon voices can be magical via shouting, and the dwemer used tonal magic (they don't call it magic but it basically is in a sense), what's wrong with music being magical?

Some of you need to go play classic Everquest and Dark Age Of Camelot.

Oh and I didn't even mention that ESO was heavily influenced by DAOC. The whole RvRvR thing and Imperial City being ESO's version of DAOC's Darkness Falls, which you couldn't access unless your realm owned the majority of keeps. Who here remembers when you couldn't enter Imperial City unless your realm owned the circle of keeps surrounding it? And anyone inside IC counted toward the pop cap so you had to do your farming quickly before another realm took control of the entry and came to wipe you out? Just like Darkness Falls. Good change getting rid of that but this game was originally an almost spiritual successor to DAOC, set in the Elder Scrolls universe instead of a fantasy Arthurian universe. A bard class can fit just fine.

Billium813

yes

I fully admit that Bard may not fit TES as a combat class. It certainly wouldn't fit ESO in the way that players would think of a classic Bard; strumming a harp or playing a lute.

I think a Bard would be much closer to a Dwarven Architect/ Engineer / Enchanter (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tonal_Architecture). Unfortunately, that class may not be very exciting and/or rely on large Dwarven Machines to work. Could be really interesting as a class that summons Dwarven Automatons, creates tonal shields and shockwaves, and sunders the earth as more of a Earth mage, with vocals and tones.

Ragnork

no

I really want the chef class..... Sauce 😋

opalcity

no

Neverwinter has bards. You have a rapier for melee, and then a lute for magic. It's a viable dps class, but was mostly used in support because of its buffs and heals. (Its been a few years since I played it so I can't say what state its in now)

The powers worked by playing tunes - a series of preset keystrokes/button combo s that played a riff and did the thing. Iirc you could have one slotted all the time, and another automatically played the last tune you used.

Those that liked it, loved it. I personally couldn't get on with, but then I was never that great at guitar hero! Which is a shame, because it looked pretty cool when casting.

Oh and it also has a freeplay mode so, when you were out of combat, you could jam on your lute for fun!

tohopka_eso

Holycannoli wrote: »

Has nobody played classic Everquest? Or Dark Age Of Camelot? Bard classes can be a lot of fun and bring great utility to groups. DAOC had three varying versions of "bard":

Bard for Hibernia: https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/class-library-bard

Minstrel for Albion: https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/class-library-minstrel

Skald for Midgard: https://darkageofcamelot.com/content/class-library-skald

Slight variations on the same basic theme of music as magic. If devs 20 years ago can come up with three variations of the class I'm sure ZOS can come up with one.

And it can fit Elder Scrolls lore just fine. If dragon voices can be magical via shouting, and the dwemer used tonal magic (they don't call it magic but it basically is in a sense), what's wrong with music being magical?

Some of you need to go play classic Everquest and Dark Age Of Camelot.

Oh and I didn't even mention that ESO was heavily influenced by DAOC. The whole RvRvR thing and Imperial City being ESO's version of DAOC's Darkness Falls, which you couldn't access unless your realm owned the majority of keeps. Who here remembers when you couldn't enter Imperial City unless your realm owned the circle of keeps surrounding it? And anyone inside IC counted toward the pop cap so you had to do your farming quickly before another realm took control of the entry and came to wipe you out? Just like Darkness Falls. Good change getting rid of that but this game was originally an almost spiritual successor to DAOC, set in the Elder Scrolls universe instead of a fantasy Arthurian universe. A bard class can fit just fine.

I played both EverQuest titles. In EQ2 the bard is kinda like a all around jack of all trades while the one in EQ you learned how to twist songs.

Jarl_Ironheart

doesn't fit in TES

Bards in the sense that people want wouldn't fit TES. We have never really had anything showing magic through music. And bards classes traditionally are support based classes that buffs your party. A purr support class would be so annoying to play solo. It wouldn't fit. I'd rather have a true warrior class instead of more magic

Lugaldu

doesn't fit in TES

Well, we were just discussing the topic yesterday...

francesinhalover

no

ew...no.
The music and sounds would drive me nutts.

I'm also TIRED of new classes, id rather had gotten skill lines for my class. so i can keep improving it.

Vevvev

no

Unless we're using tonal architecture or the thuum to manipulate the universe it would make absolutely no sense in TES. We already have a morale buffing skill in the form of War Horn so I don't see what a Bard can bring to the table we don't already have.

francesinhalover

no

TaSheen wrote: »

I've always made my own bards in previous games - I pick the sort of spells that are "roguish" (I don't have any of the games loaded right now as I'm getting ready to reinstall Oblivion and Skyrim so don't really have spell names at my fingertips), and usually use a sword or dagger as weapon, which leaves a hand free. Of course Skyrim has the bard mods available (for singing/playing for one's supper and a bed) but that's more on the line of the bards you see in this game rather than being its own "class".

Since we have had Shouts in TES V, and Tonal Architects among the Dwemer, I've never really found spell-using bards that out of range. But of course, that's just me. I've never really looked at what the lore says about it, because I don't really care as long as I can do what I want in the single player titles.

I think it's unlikely to happen in ESO, but I really do wish it would. I actually think it would be better as an additive skill line - along the same setup as antiquities.

lots of hype going around , they are remaking oblivion fully on skyrim and the pogress is going really well

zaria

Bard feels more like an skill line to me, than an class.
As Jarl_Ironheart say an pure support class could be BIS in trials or PvP ball groups but be annoying solo and kind of 5th wheel in dungeons.
Had been perfect as an skill line with the bard college in Skyrim.
First skills is debuf's

then you get the buffs.

Holycannoli

yes

tohopka_eso wrote: »

I played both EverQuest titles. In EQ2 the bard is kinda like a all around jack of all trades while the one in EQ you learned how to twist songs.

Yeah it had a high skill ceiling compared to the other classes. In classic EQ it was actually too good at weaving and kiting and it wound up nerfed a few expansions later. A good bard could kite an entire zone of mobs, in a game that was designed around requiring a balanced group to handle even smaller amounts of mobs at a time.

That kind of power is irrelevant in ESO as people can wade through hordes of mobs without breaking a sweat, but DAOC's versions would work great. Great group utility but not the solo beasts they were in classic EQ. Speed songs, healing songs, mana regen songs, damage songs, protection songs, crowd control songs. You name it. I'm sure ZOS can come up with some interesting utility.