Anybody tested Snake in the Stars set on PTS?

Necrotech_Master

im actually kind of surprised that this set is a fixed amount of oblivion dmg, i know they did a pass on oblivion dmg stuff in the past which changed all of the oblivion stuff at the time was changed to be %hp based (sloads, knight slayer, and the enchantment)

then they did cp2.0 which added occult overload which was a fixed amount of oblivion dmg, then overbuffed, then almost overnerfed, but still does a fixed amount of oblivion dmg

fred4 wrote: »

axi wrote: »

If it will be purged by mara's balm than it won't be very strong.

Incorrect. It is, in fact, the anti-Mara set. Mara purges every 15s at most. In the meantime it heals you for small amounts, less than 1K, up to every second. Every time it does that, you'll be hit with a 2.8K Oblivion proc.

i think its going to heavily depend on the proc timing in that case, if you apply it right after the purge triggers, yeah its going to hurt, if you apply it just before the purge triggers, it will be useless

jaws343

fred4 wrote: »

axi wrote: »

If it will be purged by mara's balm than it won't be very strong.

Incorrect. It is, in fact, the anti-Mara set. Mara purges every 15s at most. In the meantime it heals you for small amounts, less than 1K, up to every second. Every time it does that, you'll be hit with a 2.8K Oblivion proc.

On top of just healing skills/sets, quite a few damage skills also add heals to you. Like Frags, swallow soul, flame lash, to name a few. All of those types of skills put you in potential situations where trying to attack an enemy will straight up kill you.

fred4

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

im actually kind of surprised that this set is a fixed amount of oblivion dmg, i know they did a pass on oblivion dmg stuff in the past which changed all of the oblivion stuff at the time was changed to be %hp based (sloads, knight slayer, and the enchantment)

then they did cp2.0 which added occult overload which was a fixed amount of oblivion dmg, then overbuffed, then almost overnerfed, but still does a fixed amount of oblivion dmg

fred4 wrote: »

axi wrote: »

If it will be purged by mara's balm than it won't be very strong.

Incorrect. It is, in fact, the anti-Mara set. Mara purges every 15s at most. In the meantime it heals you for small amounts, less than 1K, up to every second. Every time it does that, you'll be hit with a 2.8K Oblivion proc.

i think its going to heavily depend on the proc timing in that case, if you apply it right after the purge triggers, yeah its going to hurt, if you apply it just before the purge triggers, it will be useless

In a duel that may be OK. Godzilla made a sorc on PTS with Sithis, Draugrkin, Snake and Master DW. Pretty toxic. He duelled for 17 minutes before he killed whatever he was up against. A warden, I think. Anecdotal evidence for balance.

I am, however, concerned how it plays when everyone puts this on. You get focused, there will be 100% uptime. So I guess it will depend on how you feel about tanks or about players who can temporarily survive being focused. I don't think being helpless, because you can't heal, is a good way to die. Nothing personally kills my enjoyment more than knowing I have no counterplay. This is why people hate gankers for example. I want to die knowing that everything I did helped me to stay alive until the very last second and I don't want to be forced into vampire and new Mistform, in case that turns out to be the counter.

I guess shields, blocking, mobility (Streak, Mist Form, speed), cloak and burst heals only will be the counters. Is that good? I don't know. Ongoing healing keeps you able to brawl. I foresee more LoSing.

fred4

jaws343 wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

axi wrote: »

If it will be purged by mara's balm than it won't be very strong.

Incorrect. It is, in fact, the anti-Mara set. Mara purges every 15s at most. In the meantime it heals you for small amounts, less than 1K, up to every second. Every time it does that, you'll be hit with a 2.8K Oblivion proc.

On top of just healing skills/sets, quite a few damage skills also add heals to you. Like Frags, swallow soul, flame lash, to name a few. All of those types of skills put you in potential situations where trying to attack an enemy will straight up kill you.

Yep. Like I already said in the preceding post. It actually rules out a lot of skills. Builds will change, favoring skills that don't have attached heals and using burst heals only along with passive tankiness. Templars can't Sweep, as if they would. This is actually the part that's really bad. How anti-natural playstyle the set is, not just Mara.

EDIT: OK, templars have Extended Ritual, but what about a magblade, huh? No class purge and I'm effectively not allowed to run Swallow Soul anymore? Sorc, as has been mentioned, heals from any Dark Magic skill. Warden heals from any animal skill. And so on. It's those small heals, which should be your lifeblood, that will kill you instead.

Necrotech_Master

fred4 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

im actually kind of surprised that this set is a fixed amount of oblivion dmg, i know they did a pass on oblivion dmg stuff in the past which changed all of the oblivion stuff at the time was changed to be %hp based (sloads, knight slayer, and the enchantment)

then they did cp2.0 which added occult overload which was a fixed amount of oblivion dmg, then overbuffed, then almost overnerfed, but still does a fixed amount of oblivion dmg

fred4 wrote: »

axi wrote: »

If it will be purged by mara's balm than it won't be very strong.

Incorrect. It is, in fact, the anti-Mara set. Mara purges every 15s at most. In the meantime it heals you for small amounts, less than 1K, up to every second. Every time it does that, you'll be hit with a 2.8K Oblivion proc.

i think its going to heavily depend on the proc timing in that case, if you apply it right after the purge triggers, yeah its going to hurt, if you apply it just before the purge triggers, it will be useless

In a duel that may be OK. Godzilla made a sorc on PTS with Sithis, Draugrkin, Snake and Master DW. Pretty toxic. He duelled for 17 minutes before he killed whatever he was up against. A warden, I think. Anecdotal evidence for balance.

I am, however, concerned how it plays when everyone puts this on. You get focused, there will be 100% uptime. So I guess it will depend on how you feel about tanks or about players who can temporarily survive being focused. I don't think being helpless, because you can't heal, is a good way to die. Nothing personally kills my enjoyment more than knowing I have no counterplay. This is why people hate gankers for example. I want to die knowing that everything I did helped me to stay alive until the very last second and I don't want to be forced into vampire and new Mistform, in case that turns out to be the counter.

I guess shields, blocking, mobility (Streak, Mist Form, speed), cloak and burst heals only will be the counters. Is that good? I don't know. Ongoing healing keeps you able to brawl. I foresee more LoSing.

purge is still an option, due to the plaguebreak nerf (20 sec cooldown per target) it can be hard to get it on a lot of targets at once, and as long as you purge outside of a big group, the explosion barely hurts too

while purging is not as prevalent as it used to be, thats the most effective counter for any dot-based build, including this set

warden has the netch for purge but the difficulty with this is only purging 1 negative effect at a time

templar and necromancer are probably going to be the most difficult to keep this effect on because of bulk purging

if you only purge when the proc goes on you, then the alliance war efficient purge could be used by any toon since you would only need to hit it once every 12 sec when their cooldown is up, which is more than sustainable

fred4

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

im actually kind of surprised that this set is a fixed amount of oblivion dmg, i know they did a pass on oblivion dmg stuff in the past which changed all of the oblivion stuff at the time was changed to be %hp based (sloads, knight slayer, and the enchantment)

then they did cp2.0 which added occult overload which was a fixed amount of oblivion dmg, then overbuffed, then almost overnerfed, but still does a fixed amount of oblivion dmg

fred4 wrote: »

axi wrote: »

If it will be purged by mara's balm than it won't be very strong.

Incorrect. It is, in fact, the anti-Mara set. Mara purges every 15s at most. In the meantime it heals you for small amounts, less than 1K, up to every second. Every time it does that, you'll be hit with a 2.8K Oblivion proc.

i think its going to heavily depend on the proc timing in that case, if you apply it right after the purge triggers, yeah its going to hurt, if you apply it just before the purge triggers, it will be useless

In a duel that may be OK. Godzilla made a sorc on PTS with Sithis, Draugrkin, Snake and Master DW. Pretty toxic. He duelled for 17 minutes before he killed whatever he was up against. A warden, I think. Anecdotal evidence for balance.

I am, however, concerned how it plays when everyone puts this on. You get focused, there will be 100% uptime. So I guess it will depend on how you feel about tanks or about players who can temporarily survive being focused. I don't think being helpless, because you can't heal, is a good way to die. Nothing personally kills my enjoyment more than knowing I have no counterplay. This is why people hate gankers for example. I want to die knowing that everything I did helped me to stay alive until the very last second and I don't want to be forced into vampire and new Mistform, in case that turns out to be the counter.

I guess shields, blocking, mobility (Streak, Mist Form, speed), cloak and burst heals only will be the counters. Is that good? I don't know. Ongoing healing keeps you able to brawl. I foresee more LoSing.

purge is still an option, due to the plaguebreak nerf (20 sec cooldown per target) it can be hard to get it on a lot of targets at once, and as long as you purge outside of a big group, the explosion barely hurts too

while purging is not as prevalent as it used to be, thats the most effective counter for any dot-based build, including this set

warden has the netch for purge but the difficulty with this is only purging 1 negative effect at a time

templar and necromancer are probably going to be the most difficult to keep this effect on because of bulk purging

if you only purge when the proc goes on you, then the alliance war efficient purge could be used by any toon since you would only need to hit it once every 12 sec when their cooldown is up, which is more than sustainable

Like I said, I'm concerned about widespread use. I am not counting on a 12 second cooldown. I'm counting on being hit again and again. If you purge, you can presumably be hit again right away by a different player. Efficient Purge has always been a horribly expensive skill for a solo player to use and only purges 3 effects. No guarantee it will actually purge that particular one.

fred4

But, you know, whatever. ZOS will run with it. I can't believe they're doing high Oblivion damage again. I'm basically out of here anyway.

OBJnoob

Thecompton73 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

But all the situations don't apply. Won't. Can't. All the situations will happen, sure, but it can't be expected to be balanced in all of them.

Will ball groups use this? Maybe. Probably, to some extent. Will it make them mow down players that would normally be able to kite and even try to X them in a tower for 5 minutes? Probably, to some extent.

Honestly I think we all have a hero complex. We want the game balanced so 1 person can have a fighting chance against 10. Anything that 10 can use to kill 1 is considered abusive. But that's wrong, isn't it? 1 person fighting 10 isn't balanced. 10 people mowing down 1 is balanced.

Things that honestly help 1 person fight against 10 are some of the most hated features of this game. Mist form, permablock, maras balm, plaguebreak, dark convergence, undeath, high health, corrosive.

The game would be in a better state of balance if we just let ballgroups be super strong (cuz they will be no matter what,) and tried to balance 1v1 scenarios.

Everybody ENJOYS the idea of people that run in large groups are bad players. They want to run out there and show them how bad they are. They don't think all these bad players deserve their numbers advantage.

But the truth is: a numbers advantage is the most fair thing in the world. And some of those groups AREN'T bad players. And there's absolutely no reason to try and UNbalance a game to make ego-players feel more like the Hero of Tamriel.

You're totally contradicting yourself. It's a problem for 1 person to survive 10 players but it's ok for a ball group to heal through the damage of 40-50 people chasing them around the inside of an unflagged keep while taking damage from oils, meatbags, scattershot and coldfire? Ballgroups don't win those fights with a numbers advantage, they win with a heal and buff stacking advantage. An optimized ballgroup in PvP is the equivalent to having a god mode cheat active, you can't unbalance what isn't even close to being balanced in the first place.

Well the difference between 1v10 and ball v zerg is that one person can't have coordination with themselves. But the 12 can have such optimization as to beat the zerg. Heal and buff stacking is that optimization. Is that strategy. It isn't like cheating at all.

fred4 wrote: »

@OBJnoob: FWIW I'm in the camp that this set, in it's present form, is going to be toxic as f. It is Oblivion damage. It can't be mitigated. It is not affected by Battle Spirit. It's also been confirmed that it can be reapplied to a player every 6 seconds. All it takes is two players hunting down a single one. It IMO favors bigger groups over smaller ones. I don't know whether you remember Sloads. It was high Oblivion damage on it's release. No one liked that. It was one of the few occasions where ZOS nerfed the set after 6 weeks, e.g. before the usual 3 month window.

There are counters. If high health shielding sorcs work, that may be a counter, but they better not run Crit Surge. Or Polar Wind. Or Living Trellis. Or Swallow Soul. Or Vigor. Or Regeneration. Or <insert x>. Have you looked at your Vigor ticks? Are they even 2K in PvP? Meanwhile 2.8K Oblivion damage does what it says on the tin. Negating Vigor and then some. That's BS.

We've had anti-healing metas. There was Durok's Bane. There's Incap. This was more of a slow burn, but it also came to a head. At one point you could stack Major and Minor Defile with various amplifiers for something like 60% healing reduction on the target. People didn't like that. Granted that affected all your healing and Snake is capped, but at no point did it flat out invert a healing tick like Snake will do. I do not think people will like this. You effectively lose control of your character. If you run a heal, that should heal you, not do the opposite.

I think the meta we're in is actually kind of interesting. Healing is not that strong, but it can be stacked. It takes up bar space, at least as a solo player, for example when you replace some other skill with Vigor on your magicka build that already had heals. Hybridisation has made that possible, but I don't think individual heals are generally as strong as they have been in some older patches.

In my experience, damage metas don't last. Everyone who complains about a tank meta and looks for ZOS to fix it is, IMO, barking up the wrong tree. We had an extreme damage meta maybe 2 summers ago. It took a few weeks until everyone switched to Pariah or whatever the mitigation choice of the day was. IMO the majority of people do not like to die easily and they will always find ways of creating a tank meta whatever ZOS do. You're up against human nature.

When ZOS shift the goal post one way or the other, what that actually does is curtail the armor set selection that people will use. In a damage meta, people start wearing exclusively defensive sets. In an actual tank meta, people start wearing more offensive sets. You want a balanced meta where many sets, both offensive and defensive are viable. Of course Rallying Cry is having your cake and eating it, but you get the general idea.

Let me start by saying, to everyone, that was a little rant there that I apologize for. What I did not mean to do was sound aggressive towards anyone else's opinions.

I realize the set is probably OP and hopefully will receive an appropriate nerf. What I don't want is the functionality of the set to change-- I think it serves a purpose-- a much needed one. That's all I'm really saying.

So I don't really disagree with anything you're saying Fred... But I'm not the only person who feels the way I'm talking. I'm just the only one HERE trying to remind us all what 75% of us spent the last 3 months complaining about.

Sure a damage meta will eventually lead to a tank meta. And last time we had one everybody started running pariah. The thing is that tank meta never ended. People just wear maras balm now instead of pariah. This set will counter maras balm. I believe it was you who first mentioned it.

So in short I think your perspective is a little off. What we have now is not a balanced meta, wherein this set will create a damage meta, which leads to a tanky response. What we have now is already a tank meta.

Necrotech_Master

fred4 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

im actually kind of surprised that this set is a fixed amount of oblivion dmg, i know they did a pass on oblivion dmg stuff in the past which changed all of the oblivion stuff at the time was changed to be %hp based (sloads, knight slayer, and the enchantment)

then they did cp2.0 which added occult overload which was a fixed amount of oblivion dmg, then overbuffed, then almost overnerfed, but still does a fixed amount of oblivion dmg

fred4 wrote: »

axi wrote: »

If it will be purged by mara's balm than it won't be very strong.

Incorrect. It is, in fact, the anti-Mara set. Mara purges every 15s at most. In the meantime it heals you for small amounts, less than 1K, up to every second. Every time it does that, you'll be hit with a 2.8K Oblivion proc.

i think its going to heavily depend on the proc timing in that case, if you apply it right after the purge triggers, yeah its going to hurt, if you apply it just before the purge triggers, it will be useless

In a duel that may be OK. Godzilla made a sorc on PTS with Sithis, Draugrkin, Snake and Master DW. Pretty toxic. He duelled for 17 minutes before he killed whatever he was up against. A warden, I think. Anecdotal evidence for balance.

I am, however, concerned how it plays when everyone puts this on. You get focused, there will be 100% uptime. So I guess it will depend on how you feel about tanks or about players who can temporarily survive being focused. I don't think being helpless, because you can't heal, is a good way to die. Nothing personally kills my enjoyment more than knowing I have no counterplay. This is why people hate gankers for example. I want to die knowing that everything I did helped me to stay alive until the very last second and I don't want to be forced into vampire and new Mistform, in case that turns out to be the counter.

I guess shields, blocking, mobility (Streak, Mist Form, speed), cloak and burst heals only will be the counters. Is that good? I don't know. Ongoing healing keeps you able to brawl. I foresee more LoSing.

purge is still an option, due to the plaguebreak nerf (20 sec cooldown per target) it can be hard to get it on a lot of targets at once, and as long as you purge outside of a big group, the explosion barely hurts too

while purging is not as prevalent as it used to be, thats the most effective counter for any dot-based build, including this set

warden has the netch for purge but the difficulty with this is only purging 1 negative effect at a time

templar and necromancer are probably going to be the most difficult to keep this effect on because of bulk purging

if you only purge when the proc goes on you, then the alliance war efficient purge could be used by any toon since you would only need to hit it once every 12 sec when their cooldown is up, which is more than sustainable

Like I said, I'm concerned about widespread use. I am not counting on a 12 second cooldown. I'm counting on being hit again and again. If you purge, you can presumably be hit again right away by a different player. Efficient Purge has always been a horribly expensive skill for a solo player to use and only purges 3 effects. No guarantee it will actually purge that particular one.

yeah in an open area like cyro that is always a possibility, or even a small scale like BG because it only takes 2 people to keep it at near 100% uptime

in a 1v1 a purge will be sufficient

i say all these things coming from my main pvp toon being a stam NB with no self purge, and already weak heals

i think that this will actually be much more problematic for people with weaker heals, you hit someone with radiating regeneration which is like 800 heal per tick and suddenly your buddy is now taking 2000 dmg per sec in oblivion because of the weak heal

i see the intention of the set, to counter healing, or possibly troll tanks

i also see that this set will probably get nerfed or changed, so that it will be scaled oblivion dmg, either on the targets hp, or a % of the heal tick they received so it would never fully counter the heal, or would only really counter high health people

Syiccal

axi wrote: »

If it will be purged by mara's balm than it won't be very strong.

Accept when the purge on cool down and instead every 900 heal maras gives you instead procs 2800+ oblivion dmg!

Tommy_The_Gun

I wonder what else (aside from healing skills) can trigger the proc.

1. If I have a proc set that heals me, will that healing also trigger Snake in the Stars ?
2. Will drinking a healing potion proc Snake in the Stars ?
3. Does health recovery (technically it is not "a healing" but it kinda is in practise) trigger Snake in the Stars ?

Necrotech_Master

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I wonder what else (aside from healing skills) can trigger the proc.

1. If I have a proc set that heals me, will that healing also trigger Snake in the Stars ?
2. Will drinking a healing potion proc Snake in the Stars ?
3. Does health recovery (technically it is not "a healing" but it kinda is in practise) trigger Snake in the Stars ?

1 is possibly yes, unless they really stick to their procs dont proc procs rule
2 probably yes
3 it should not, as its not considered healing in the sense of like an additional heal over time or burst heal

jaws343

Out of curiosity, I checked my current sorc setup to see where I'd be like to take damage here:

Dark Conversion: Main sustain skill, will be forced to choose taking damage, on top of losing stamina, to gain mag back
Crystal Frag: Main burst skill (even worse for a player using this as a spammable and not just for the proc)
Radiating Regen: Will pretty much be countered by this set
Light's Champion: Also countered by the set
Restro Heavy: Could kill the user
Undaunted Synergy Passive: Activating a synergy could kill a player with this effect on them
Tri-stat potion

ForumBully

jaws343 wrote: »

Out of curiosity, I checked my current sorc setup to see where I'd be like to take damage here:

Dark Conversion: Main sustain skill, will be forced to choose taking damage, on top of losing stamina, to gain mag back
Crystal Frag: Main burst skill (even worse for a player using this as a spammable and not just for the proc)
Radiating Regen: Will pretty much be countered by this set
Light's Champion: Also countered by the set
Restro Heavy: Could kill the user
Undaunted Synergy Passive: Activating a synergy could kill a player with this effect on them
Tri-stat potion

It's such a dumb idea of a set. There's nothing that can be done, except try to run. And this is just looking at the set in isolation. We can't not heal because this set isn't the only source of incoming damage, so even something like only shielding on a Sorc won't work because we have to try to heal up all the other damage under the shield and when we do we kill ourselves with Oblivion damage.

It's run or purge (which isn't realistic since the effect will just be reapplied), or wear the set like everyone else and see who dies first.

CameraBeardThePirate

This set would be balanced if and only if every class had access to a purge in their class kit. In that scenario, so long as the effect has a visual indicator there's plenty of counterplay. As it stand though, this will have a much larger effect on classes that don't have or can't easily run a purge. Might also be a set that's dead on arrival if Mara's remains un-nerfed, because Mara's completely negates this set regardless.

fred4

jaws343 wrote: »

Out of curiosity, I checked my current sorc setup to see where I'd be like to take damage here:

Dark Conversion: Main sustain skill, will be forced to choose taking damage, on top of losing stamina, to gain mag back
Crystal Frag: Main burst skill (even worse for a player using this as a spammable and not just for the proc)
Radiating Regen: Will pretty much be countered by this set
Light's Champion: Also countered by the set
Restro Heavy: Could kill the user
Undaunted Synergy Passive: Activating a synergy could kill a player with this effect on them
Tri-stat potion

Or nightblade: Siphoning Attacks / Leeching Strikes. So innocent. Want to build 5 Merciless stacks. You're weaving every second, aren't you? No you won't. OK, let's drop that skill, but then you're not nerfing healing, you're nerfing sustain. Was that really the intention?

fred4

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i think that this will actually be much more problematic for people with weaker heals, you hit someone with radiating regeneration which is like 800 heal per tick and suddenly your buddy is now taking 2000 dmg per sec in oblivion because of the weak heal

Exactly. This goes for a lot of little behind the scenes heals that can add up, but don't amount to much on their own. Like I said, Leeching Strikes. Warden animal passive heal. Merciless Resolve heal - perhaps not weak, that one, but just goes to show that you will heal every second on many builds unless you consciously go out of your way to avoid that. Normally you do the opposite on PvP builds. It's such a slap in the face to players who actually know how to build.

jaws343

fred4 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i think that this will actually be much more problematic for people with weaker heals, you hit someone with radiating regeneration which is like 800 heal per tick and suddenly your buddy is now taking 2000 dmg per sec in oblivion because of the weak heal

Exactly. This goes for a lot of little behind the scenes heals that can add up, but don't amount to much on their own. Like I said, Leeching Strikes. Warden animal passive heal. Merciless Resolve heal - perhaps not weak, that one, but just goes to show that you will heal every second on many builds unless you consciously go out of your way to avoid that. Normally you do the opposite on PvP builds. It's such a slap in the face to players who actually know how to build.

The rage from solo PVPers running Pale Order rings. When their healing mythic turns into a death sentence and they can do nothing to stop it mid fight...

fred4

jaws343 wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i think that this will actually be much more problematic for people with weaker heals, you hit someone with radiating regeneration which is like 800 heal per tick and suddenly your buddy is now taking 2000 dmg per sec in oblivion because of the weak heal

Exactly. This goes for a lot of little behind the scenes heals that can add up, but don't amount to much on their own. Like I said, Leeching Strikes. Warden animal passive heal. Merciless Resolve heal - perhaps not weak, that one, but just goes to show that you will heal every second on many builds unless you consciously go out of your way to avoid that. Normally you do the opposite on PvP builds. It's such a slap in the face to players who actually know how to build.

The rage from solo PVPers running Pale Order rings. When their healing mythic turns into a death sentence and they can do nothing to stop it mid fight...

No one seriously does that in PvP, do they?

Thecompton73

My fix would be to reduce the cool down on the damage to 0.25 seconds while at the same time lowering the amount from 2800 to around 700-900 per tick. This would allow the set to rightfully punish stacking 4-5 healing effects per second, thus doing about the same damage per second as at current levels or perhaps a bit more, while greatly reducing it's effectiveness against builds only running 1 or 2 sources of healing over time.

The_one_i_seek

The_Lex wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I've never understood the desire to curtail ball groups.

Because ball groups destroy server performance wherever they go.

its zenimax problem, they need invest in servers

Thecompton73

The_one_i_seek wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I've never understood the desire to curtail ball groups.

Because ball groups destroy server performance wherever they go.

its zenimax problem, they need invest in servers

It's more than just server performance. Ballgroups have always been way strong but have steadily grown more and more powerful over the years with the continuous addition of sets that let them give each other the most powerful buffs in the game with almost 100% uptime. It used to be one would show up at a keep fight and steamroll people for a few minutes then they'd get heavily outnumbered and bombed/negated so those runs would last 10-15 minutes tops. It was a healthy fun part of the game to be in or against.

Where we are at currently with them is a far cry from those days. Negates, bombs, outnumbered by 4 or 5X, saturated in every siege possible, none of it really affects them anymore. And those 10-15 minute farms have turned into running in circles killing people over and over until they grow bored and leave of their own accord. It ruins the meta gameplay of Cyrodiil and destroys competitive balance when you need 3/4 of one alliance to defend a scroll keep against just 1/8 of another for hours during primetime.
OBJnoob said it themselves earlier in this very thread "a numbers advantage is the most fair thing in the world". 12 people should not be able to win or indefinitely stalemate a fight against 50-60 people every single time those encounters occur. Optimization and coordination shouldn't outweigh that huge of a number advantage. Custer at Little bighorn and the Germans in WW2 Russia both had equipmental and organizational advantages but at some point raw troop numbers overwhelm those types of advantages in real life, they used to in ESO as well but no longer do.

selig_fay

fred4 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Out of curiosity, I checked my current sorc setup to see where I'd be like to take damage here:

Dark Conversion: Main sustain skill, will be forced to choose taking damage, on top of losing stamina, to gain mag back
Crystal Frag: Main burst skill (even worse for a player using this as a spammable and not just for the proc)
Radiating Regen: Will pretty much be countered by this set
Light's Champion: Also countered by the set
Restro Heavy: Could kill the user
Undaunted Synergy Passive: Activating a synergy could kill a player with this effect on them
Tri-stat potion

Or nightblade: Siphoning Attacks / Leeching Strikes. So innocent. Want to build 5 Merciless stacks. You're weaving every second, aren't you? No you won't. OK, let's drop that skill, but then you're not nerfing healing, you're nerfing sustain. Was that really the intention?

Then people who care about damage won't run it and it will become a defense set, but since it doesn't provide defense stats, people won't really like it. It's just that even if you burn the enemy's resources with it, you are forgoing damage in order for the enemy to do more heavy attacks on you. This is a weapon of tanks, maybe healers. It's not dd anymore.

Brrrofski

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Can you please direct the team to this thread.

There are some real legit worries about this set.

We understand the intended implication. But it will go way beyond that and hurt other players even more.

This will ruin PvP for the next few months.

Foto1

I hope this set becomes meta

selig_fay

Foto1 wrote: »

I hope this set becomes meta

Low healing unarmed templar to kill allies?)

Luede

according to the tooltip even the orc passive unflinching rage should trigger the set... simply a joke.

Sergykid

Thecompton73 wrote: »

My fix would be to reduce the cool down on the damage to 0.25 seconds while at the same time lowering the amount from 2800 to around 700-900 per tick. This would allow the set to rightfully punish stacking 4-5 healing effects per second, thus doing about the same damage per second as at current levels or perhaps a bit more, while greatly reducing it's effectiveness against builds only running 1 or 2 sources of healing over time.

i was thinking of negate 3k healing absorption effect (like Soldier of Anguish does) instead of oblivion dmg, at least that way u don't get more damage to health than ur heal if u heal, but ur idea is better as it will only punish tanks that just have 5 different heals on them while being a regular dps set against others

or could make the oblivion damage a dot that refreshes when u heal

Syiccal

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This set would be balanced if and only if every class had access to a purge in their class kit. In that scenario, so long as the effect has a visual indicator there's plenty of counterplay. As it stand though, this will have a much larger effect on classes that don't have or can't easily run a purge. Might also be a set that's dead on arrival if Mara's remains un-nerfed, because Mara's completely negates this set regardless.

If anything thisbis an anti mara set because when mara purge on cool down you will take 3k dmg everytime maras gives you 900 hot

Tommy_The_Gun

Luede wrote: »

according to the tooltip even the orc passive unflinching rage should trigger the set... simply a joke.

And Argonian potion passive too lol

Imagine that. You get hit by 3K Oblivion Damage just because of a racial passive . I mean what am I supposed to do ? Un-spend a skill point so it would not accidentally kill me ? LOL. At this point it is... not even sad. It is actually a meme. And funny one too !