Class Change Tokens - Request Number 73,276

Stx

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just wanted to let you all know that we do not have any plans on implementing class changes tokens at this time. There are a number of technical challenges with implementing them, and it would take a significant amount of time to solve these challenges efficiently and safely.

That’s odd.

All a class in this game really is is three skill lines. You can swap between werewolf and vampire effortlessly, which are also just skill lines…

Amottica

Stx wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just wanted to let you all know that we do not have any plans on implementing class changes tokens at this time. There are a number of technical challenges with implementing them, and it would take a significant amount of time to solve these challenges efficiently and safely.

That’s odd.

All a class in this game really is is three skill lines. You can swap between werewolf and vampire effortlessly, which are also just skill lines…

I think it is very safe to say that our assumptions on how the database is organized are going to be wrong most of the time. What we think is simple is likely not very.

Stx

Amottica wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just wanted to let you all know that we do not have any plans on implementing class changes tokens at this time. There are a number of technical challenges with implementing them, and it would take a significant amount of time to solve these challenges efficiently and safely.

That’s odd.

All a class in this game really is is three skill lines. You can swap between werewolf and vampire effortlessly, which are also just skill lines…

I think it is very safe to say that our assumptions on how the database is organized are going to be wrong most of the time. What we think is simple is likely not very.

I wasn’t making an assumption. I gave a specific example of something available in game that is the same function as what a class change token would do. Any further details on why they can’t implement one is welcome.

the1andonlyskwex

Stx wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just wanted to let you all know that we do not have any plans on implementing class changes tokens at this time. There are a number of technical challenges with implementing them, and it would take a significant amount of time to solve these challenges efficiently and safely.

That’s odd.

All a class in this game really is is three skill lines. You can swap between werewolf and vampire effortlessly, which are also just skill lines…

I think it is very safe to say that our assumptions on how the database is organized are going to be wrong most of the time. What we think is simple is likely not very.

I wasn’t making an assumption. I gave a specific example of something available in game that is the same function as what a class change token would do. Any further details on why they can’t implement one is welcome.

It's entirely possible that a character's class is "baked in" to the database in a way that doesn't directly affect gameplay (potentially because of some feature that was planned in pre-alpha and never fully implemented). We have no way of knowing though, and ZOS has no reason to tell us. What's clear from every statement they've ever made is that changing a character's class is definitely not as simple as just adding or removing a skill line or even changing race.

finehair

I don't do the whole game content from 0 when I start a new character. I just power level it in the old fashion way, alikr dolmens.
Class changing should have been an in-game mechanic at shrines. Not a money maker for zos. I am %100 sure that they will release it eventually, for 5k crowns each token. However it should have been an in-game mechanic.

BretonMage

If class change is either impossible or so complicated as to make it unfeasible, then they should give us an option to essentially copy a character over to another slot, with a duplicate appearance, mount training done, and with the option to duplicate anything else that is truly awful to level up.

BaalMelqartu

Just, no, in my opinion for class change tokens. Everything has already moved so far in the direction of uniformity. Also, it's an MMO and you work for things. If you cannot be bothered to do the lil bit of work for a new class, just don't. Certainly don't expect to just turn a levelled character into a fully levelled new class because what... you feel entitled??

BretonMage

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

Just, no, in my opinion for class change tokens. Everything has already moved so far in the direction of uniformity. Also, it's an MMO and you work for things. If you cannot be bothered to do the lil bit of work for a new class, just don't. Certainly don't expect to just turn a levelled character into a fully levelled new class because what... you feel entitled??

I don't think anyone is expecting to be given a fully-levelled new class, but I don't think we should be forced to go through certain things that we have already levelled, like mount training.

peacenote

DeathStalker wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just wanted to let you all know that we do not have any plans on implementing class changes tokens at this time. There are a number of technical challenges with implementing them, and it would take a significant amount of time to solve these challenges efficiently and safely.

While this answer is disappointing, I guess it's understandable. However, I hope it's also understandable how terrible your ALT system is and that it's hated by so many people. Because to be honest, if your ALT system wasn't so hated, people would not despise making ALTs as much. Just ask yourself, Why do people not want to make ALTs and instead would rather have a class change.

I think it's really important to note that "so many people" is not necessarily correct and hate is a strong word.

I personally love the alt system.

I think it's also important to note that some people would like a class change rolen who like the alt system. For example people who have many characters and have one with a backstory better suited to the newer class than the old one.

These are not mutually exclusive desires in the game.

If a class change token came out, I would probably use it once or twice, but that doesn't mean I despise leveling an alt. Quite the contrary.

Ishtarknows

Shagreth wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Seemed clear to me. Sentence 1 from Gina is what they are doing. While it is phrased in a "never say never" manner, the phrasing says that this is not happening any time soon. If you want to know why not, sentence 2 gives the basic reason.

This is the same thing they said more than a year ago, for what it's worth.

Hence why I'm upset about this, they give the ability to change class no priority whatsoever, same can be said for other much-requested features. ZOS really makes me sad sometimes, more so than Blizzard or any other company.

But they give you the ability to make 18 different characters, with another 2 slots coming in June. New characters take very little time to get to CP level and don't need to do questing or roleplay - you can still use only your main for that.
There's no need for class change tokens now with AwA. Much as I hate it and the way it was implemented any achievements you gain on your new Arcanist count for all your characters

BretonMage

Certainly don't expect to just turn a levelled character into a fully levelled new class because what... you feel entitled??

I've been thinking about this, and the intensity of this comment surprised me. Do people feel offended that some people hate levelling mounts? Mount training is universally disliked, is it not? It also does not make sense to have to go through it again, unlike the acquisition of new skill lines, which of course one should level up from scratch.

Also, for me, I would only use the class change as an absolute last resort option. I am very happy with my one character in ESO, and rarely if ever feel the need to try out another class. Recent events, however, have made me wonder. What if my class got destroyed/nerfed to oblivion/changed substantially? I don't have another character to play with, nor do I want one. If I couldn't change class, would I leave the game?

So I can think of two situations where it makes good sense for ZOS to provide a one-time class change token (or similar): 1) if they substantially change your class; or 2) if they introduce new classes so that class choice becomes substantially different to what it was when you joined.

For those who like trying out different characters, stories, classes, roles: go wild. ZOS providing ONE class change token won't affect people who do that.

Muizer

BretonMage wrote: »

For those who like trying out different characters, stories, classes, roles: go wild. ZOS providing ONE class change token won't affect people who do that.

ONE class change token (or one per character) would ostensibly save ZOS from having to track progression on up to 21 class skill lines per character instead of 3. But honestly I do not think they would want to introduce a system that irreversibly throws away player progress. And because of that, they still would have to build the feature as if it's for unlimited class changes.

Whether that is a significant technical challenge is hard to say. That seems to depend indeed on the extent to which class is 'hard coded' beyond merely the skill lines. I cannot really think for a reason why it should be, but neither is it unthinkable that it has been conceived of, implemented and built upon as immutable from the very start.

Elsonso

BretonMage wrote: »

Certainly don't expect to just turn a levelled character into a fully levelled new class because what... you feel entitled??

I've been thinking about this, and the intensity of this comment surprised me. Do people feel offended that some people hate levelling mounts? Mount training is universally disliked, is it not?

The need for horse training is play-style dependent, and rather specific. I wouldn't expect it to be universally disliked.

I'd like to see the training time shortened, not because I dislike it, but because it is so long that I think players forget about it. I think there is a large block of players that train for a while, but then just stop doing it unless they happen to pass by a stable and remember.

It would be very interesting to find out how many players are actually spending any time doing horse training and how far along the average player gets.

BretonMage

Elsonso wrote: »

The need for horse training is play-style dependent, and rather specific. I wouldn't expect it to be universally disliked.

I have all the speed upgrades and it still feels too slow Especially when we're galloping to a dragon in N Elsweyr..

TaSheen

BretonMage wrote: »

Certainly don't expect to just turn a levelled character into a fully levelled new class because what... you feel entitled??

I've been thinking about this, and the intensity of this comment surprised me. Do people feel offended that some people hate levelling mounts? Mount training is universally disliked, is it not?

Well, I don't mind it at all. The current system is just fine with me. It's like actually training a horse from foaling to riding - been there done that. I find it adds some immersion to this MMORPG.

Gibrans

I'm hoping it's something they add within the next year or two. it's LONG overdue and needed to complete the trifecta(alliance, race, class) lol

Tandor

TaSheen wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

Certainly don't expect to just turn a levelled character into a fully levelled new class because what... you feel entitled??

I've been thinking about this, and the intensity of this comment surprised me. Do people feel offended that some people hate levelling mounts? Mount training is universally disliked, is it not?

Well, I don't mind it at all. The current system is just fine with me. It's like actually training a horse from foaling to riding - been there done that. I find it adds some immersion to this MMORPG.

I don't mind it at all either. If there's one thing I hate about MMOs it's the constant obsession some have with everything having to be done instantly in a game that is meant to be played for years, not weeks or even months - and then complaining when everything is done through every imaginable shortcut that they don't have anything to do.

LioraValkyrie

My main is literally called 'Mistress of Apocrypha' ... Sorc was the closest thing to Arcanist at the time. She is ready to devote herself to the arcane arts of Herma-Mora properly now.

TaSheen

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

My main is literally called 'Mistress of Apocrypha' ... Sorc was the closest thing to Arcanist at the time. She is ready to devote herself to the arcane arts of Herma-Mora properly now.

Now that is just flat AWESOME!

Amottica

Stx wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just wanted to let you all know that we do not have any plans on implementing class changes tokens at this time. There are a number of technical challenges with implementing them, and it would take a significant amount of time to solve these challenges efficiently and safely.

That’s odd.

All a class in this game really is is three skill lines. You can swap between werewolf and vampire effortlessly, which are also just skill lines…

I think it is very safe to say that our assumptions on how the database is organized are going to be wrong most of the time. What we think is simple is likely not very.

I wasn’t making an assumption. I gave a specific example of something available in game that is the same function as what a class change token would do. Any further details on why they can’t implement one is welcome.

It is an assumption that the single skill line that is an add-on for any class is the same as the class design as a whole because we do not know how things are designed behind the scenes. That is why it is an assumption, and based on Gina's comments, it seems to be an incorrect assumption. Gina would know significantly more about this than any of us.

SwoopIM

I have wanted a class change token for sooooo long. It seems like a vast majority would welcome this. So why not simply give us this option ZOS? If not, at least the Devs' should explain to us why not as a courtesy. I suspect they hope we will blow a lot of crowns on shards, mount scrolls, and such rather than grind up another new character.

Elsonso

SwoopIM wrote: »

I have wanted a class change token for sooooo long. It seems like a vast majority would welcome this. So why not simply give us this option ZOS? If not, at least the Devs' should explain to us why not as a courtesy. I suspect they hope we will blow a lot of crowns on shards, mount scrolls, and such rather than grind up another new character.

If I had to guess, I would say that making an alt is just the intended path in this situation. They don't want to give the token because they want people to make a new character. I am sure that marketing would love an expensive token to sell. Emphasis on 'expensive'.

Tandor

SwoopIM wrote: »

I have wanted a class change token for sooooo long. It seems like a vast majority would welcome this. So why not simply give us this option ZOS? If not, at least the Devs' should explain to us why not as a courtesy. I suspect they hope we will blow a lot of crowns on shards, mount scrolls, and such rather than grind up another new character.

They've already done so, including in this very thread. Use the icon in the margin of the thread listing on the main page to see the ZOS posts, each of which will have cursors indicating any additional ZOS comments in the thread.

As to the suggestion that this is something the vast majority want, I see no evidence of that. It pops up from time to time in threads that run to a few pages only - 6 pages here, for example, compared to the 81 or more pages on the PTS when players were discussing account-wide achievements which some wanted but nobody much wanted in the way they were implemented. Supporters of class change tokens may dominate these threads but that doesn't make them a majority of forum users let alone a majority of the playerbase.

BaalMelqartu

BretonMage wrote: »

Certainly don't expect to just turn a levelled character into a fully levelled new class because what... you feel entitled??

I've been thinking about this, and the intensity of this comment surprised me. Do people feel offended that some people hate levelling mounts? Mount training is universally disliked, is it not? It also does not make sense to have to go through it again, unlike the acquisition of new skill lines, which of course one should level up from scratch.

I get that you decided I had "intensity" in my post but it's more a general mood of exhaustion with the sense of entitlement some people have. Most of the posts I have read about people very much wanting a class change token look to me like entitlement/"I should not have to work for something in an MMO if I have already done it before."
Examples:
-Can't be bothered to do riding lessons again.
-Can't be bothered to do wayshrines again.
-Can't be bothered to level a new class again.

DMuehlhausen

Ranthuk wrote: »

This exactly, the new class is pointless without the token

You get 1 free and 1 purchasable slot so this isn't really correct.

barney2525

You just gonna hand the maximum skills so you get to " start " the new class with (since you get those point back) all of them at 50 and morphed ?

Everyone who does not buy a token has to start from scratch. I'm not seeing how this is fair.

Tandor

barney2525 wrote: »

You just gonna hand the maximum skills so you get to " start " the new class with (since you get those point back) all of them at 50 and morphed ?

Everyone who does not buy a token has to start from scratch. I'm not seeing how this is fair.

In my view it's certainly testing the distinction between QoL and P2W.

BretonMage

It should be approached the way skill lines are approached. If they haven't been levelled, you should definitely be required to do them. That makes perfect sense to me.

The mount training definitely doesn't make sense - it's nothing more than enforced delays. And it's your mount too, not your character. If you can get mount collectibles for the account, it makes sense to get mount training for the account.

DreamyLu

Sorry for the repeat: I believe that the solution is not with a class change token, but with a "level up straight to 50" token.

Main advantages of a booster-to-50 token:
- It doesn't require a change of existing concept. It's using what's existing as is and add a booster to it. It's a lot easier to implement.
- It doesn't spoil the purchasing of new slots and could have a reasonable price since the work behind its implementation isn't "big".

HowlKimchi

DreamyLu wrote: »

Sorry for the repeat: I believe that the solution is not with a class change token, but with a "level up straight to 50" token.

Main advantages of a booster-to-50 token:
- It doesn't require a change of existing concept. It's using what's existing as is and add a booster to it. It's a lot easier to implement.
- It doesn't spoil the purchasing of new slots and could have a reasonable price since the work behind its implementation isn't "big".

I'd be fine with this actually.

But, I'd like to point out that the Breton Nightblade in the cinematics was able to class change to a necromancer when Elsweyr was released. If the three characters are supposed to be our stand-ins, then please let us class change too. XD