Sorc Pain Points and ideas on buffs, changes and reworks to skills to bring the class up to par.

StaticWave

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Magsorcs literally cannot complain that they are the worst spec when ranged magblade exists.

dunno, i think the only ranged magblade's problem is mana. and if it is weaker than magsorc, according to ur opinion, then... the only playable ranged (mag?) spec in the game is warden?

Not just my opinion, but pretty much every top tier player on both PC NA and PC EU. Like I said, no ranged magblade has won a single tournament in over 4 years, and tournaments often have some of the best PvPers participating.

The problem with ranged magblade is predictable burst. You think sorc’s offense is bad? Try playing a magblade against a decent player. It’s so easy to avoid a ranged magblade burst you can literally play the game without volume and still anticipate their combo.

Ranged magden is on the same boat as ranged magblade, but unlike ranged magblade, magden still has value in a group fight.

I believe the ice warden is probably the only spec in the game which stands a chance against the immortal nb.

ice warden is super frustrating to play against and basically unkillable 1vx machine in open world if played right. In comparision to nb where a day 1 noob can count till 5 and 1vx with 25k spectral bows.

Still I am fine with the way it is as you need something like that to go toe to toe with the all powerful, supreme, omnipotent nb.

Mag and stam sorc are a billion leagues below both those specs. It’s not even funny at this point.

Ranged magblade is still the worst spec in the game because of their predictable burst. I'm not talking about hybrid NB. I'm talking about pure ranged magblade with Swallow Soul, Debilitate, and Spectral's Bow. That spec is THE WORST spec in the game.

Turtle_Bot

StaticWave wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Magsorcs literally cannot complain that they are the worst spec when ranged magblade exists.

dunno, i think the only ranged magblade's problem is mana. and if it is weaker than magsorc, according to ur opinion, then... the only playable ranged (mag?) spec in the game is warden?

Not just my opinion, but pretty much every top tier player on both PC NA and PC EU. Like I said, no ranged magblade has won a single tournament in over 4 years, and tournaments often have some of the best PvPers participating.

The problem with ranged magblade is predictable burst. You think sorc’s offense is bad? Try playing a magblade against a decent player. It’s so easy to avoid a ranged magblade burst you can literally play the game without volume and still anticipate their combo.

Ranged magden is on the same boat as ranged magblade, but unlike ranged magblade, magden still has value in a group fight.

I believe the ice warden is probably the only spec in the game which stands a chance against the immortal nb.

ice warden is super frustrating to play against and basically unkillable 1vx machine in open world if played right. In comparision to nb where a day 1 noob can count till 5 and 1vx with 25k spectral bows.

Still I am fine with the way it is as you need something like that to go toe to toe with the all powerful, supreme, omnipotent nb.

Mag and stam sorc are a billion leagues below both those specs. It’s not even funny at this point.

Ranged magblade is still the worst spec in the game because of their predictable burst. I'm not talking about hybrid NB. I'm talking about pure ranged magblade with Swallow Soul, Debilitate, and Spectral's Bow. That spec is THE WORST spec in the game.

I would like to argue that if we are to go to that specific of a set-up then technically speaking a pure lightning sorc is still weaker than a range magblade as it has zero burst options at all and it relies entirely on staff abilities for a spammable.

But yes, range builds in general are not in a good spot right now outside of bow specs, mostly because staves are so weak compared to melee weapons/abilities outside of ele sus, even accounting for the fact that they have the range advantage.
It also doesn't help that 2/3 of the biggest counters to range specs are at the top of the food chain currently (wardens with slab and nb with invis and shade) and generic counters such as movement speed for LoS, dodge and block are insanely cheap/free too considering how tanky and high health the meta currently is.



Something slightly off topic that I have pondered for a little bit now, what affect would changing the passive raw damage bonus per sword equipped in DW/2H to be "increase damage done by X% per sword equipped" instead of "increase weapon/spell damage by flat amount per sword equipped". Damage wise, it should remain the same, but it would potentially reduce the healing power of DDs since they would have slightly lower base damage buffing their healing.

StaticWave

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Magsorcs literally cannot complain that they are the worst spec when ranged magblade exists.

dunno, i think the only ranged magblade's problem is mana. and if it is weaker than magsorc, according to ur opinion, then... the only playable ranged (mag?) spec in the game is warden?

Not just my opinion, but pretty much every top tier player on both PC NA and PC EU. Like I said, no ranged magblade has won a single tournament in over 4 years, and tournaments often have some of the best PvPers participating.

The problem with ranged magblade is predictable burst. You think sorc’s offense is bad? Try playing a magblade against a decent player. It’s so easy to avoid a ranged magblade burst you can literally play the game without volume and still anticipate their combo.

Ranged magden is on the same boat as ranged magblade, but unlike ranged magblade, magden still has value in a group fight.

I believe the ice warden is probably the only spec in the game which stands a chance against the immortal nb.

ice warden is super frustrating to play against and basically unkillable 1vx machine in open world if played right. In comparision to nb where a day 1 noob can count till 5 and 1vx with 25k spectral bows.

Still I am fine with the way it is as you need something like that to go toe to toe with the all powerful, supreme, omnipotent nb.

Mag and stam sorc are a billion leagues below both those specs. It’s not even funny at this point.

Ranged magblade is still the worst spec in the game because of their predictable burst. I'm not talking about hybrid NB. I'm talking about pure ranged magblade with Swallow Soul, Debilitate, and Spectral's Bow. That spec is THE WORST spec in the game.

I would like to argue that if we are to go to that specific of a set-up then technically speaking a pure lightning sorc is still weaker than a range magblade as it has zero burst options at all and it relies entirely on staff abilities for a spammable.

But yes, range builds in general are not in a good spot right now outside of bow specs, mostly because staves are so weak compared to melee weapons/abilities outside of ele sus, even accounting for the fact that they have the range advantage.
It also doesn't help that 2/3 of the biggest counters to range specs are at the top of the food chain currently (wardens with slab and nb with invis and shade) and generic counters such as movement speed for LoS, dodge and block are insanely cheap/free too considering how tanky and high health the meta currently is.



Something slightly off topic that I have pondered for a little bit now, what affect would changing the passive raw damage bonus per sword equipped in DW/2H to be "increase damage done by X% per sword equipped" instead of "increase weapon/spell damage by flat amount per sword equipped". Damage wise, it should remain the same, but it would potentially reduce the healing power of DDs since they would have slightly lower base damage buffing their healing.

I wasn't arguing about specificity because ranged Magblade has always used Swallow Soul, Debilitate, and Spectral Bow. They really do not have other options unless going melee with Concealed Weapon. Your example of a lightning based Sorc is more specific and not equivalent to mine. A more equivalent example would be a standard shield stacking Sorc with Crushing Shock, Frag, and Curse.

StaticWave

As for people who may wonder why I think Magsorcs are still better than ranged Magblade, here's my reasoning:

When those two classes fight, the Sorc usually wins because their burst is more pressure based whereas the NB's burst is loaded into 1 big hit. Yes, the NB has the potential to land a 20k bow proc and 1 shot a Sorc. It sounds OP, but the drawback is that's all you have.

Think about it, if your entire burst is delivered by 1 ability that is not only easy to anticipate, but easy to avoid, then people are generally safe when they avoid that ability. That's what happens 99% of the time when a competent player duels a ranged Magblade. Since they don't have anything else outside of Spectral Bow, you are generally safe if you can avoid the 20k burst, and believe me it's really easy to do that.

That doesn't apply to Magsorc though. Yes, the Sorc's burst is also predictable and requires slotting Curse + Frag, but the biggest difference is the damage spreads out and still deals a significant amount to be considered burst damage. For example, Curse can crit for 6-8k depending on the target's mitigation, and Frag can crit for 7-11k. That's about equivalent to a NB's bow proc. However, since the damage comes from two abilities, you can choose to either 1) Time them to create a 20k burst similar to a NB's bow proc, or 2) Play like a pressure build and apply the burst one after another. This creates a situation where even if you dodge the Frag, you will still take damage from Curse. And no, Curse CANNOT BE BLOCKED OR ROLL DODGED. Whoever said it can be blocked seriously needs to prove it here...

Basically, this gives you the option to either one-shot someone like a NB, or switch to a pressure playstyle against someone that likes to spam roll dodges. This is why ranged magSorc is superior in practice even though on paper, ranged Magblade looks better.

Aces-High-82

Ofc curse damage is blockable lol

Pelanora

We need a poll! Yes/ no can you block curse!

Aces-High-82

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Magsorcs literally cannot complain that they are the worst spec when ranged magblade exists.

dunno, i think the only ranged magblade's problem is mana. and if it is weaker than magsorc, according to ur opinion, then... the only playable ranged (mag?) spec in the game is warden?

Not just my opinion, but pretty much every top tier player on both PC NA and PC EU. Like I said, no ranged magblade has won a single tournament in over 4 years, and tournaments often have some of the best PvPers participating.

The problem with ranged magblade is predictable burst. You think sorc’s offense is bad? Try playing a magblade against a decent player. It’s so easy to avoid a ranged magblade burst you can literally play the game without volume and still anticipate their combo.

Ranged magden is on the same boat as ranged magblade, but unlike ranged magblade, magden still has value in a group fight.

I believe the ice warden is probably the only spec in the game which stands a chance against the immortal nb.

ice warden is super frustrating to play against and basically unkillable 1vx machine in open world if played right. In comparision to nb where a day 1 noob can count till 5 and 1vx with 25k spectral bows.

Still I am fine with the way it is as you need something like that to go toe to toe with the all powerful, supreme, omnipotent nb.

Mag and stam sorc are a billion leagues below both those specs. It’s not even funny at this point.

Ranged magblade is still the worst spec in the game because of their predictable burst. I'm not talking about hybrid NB. I'm talking about pure ranged magblade with Swallow Soul, Debilitate, and Spectral's Bow. That spec is THE WORST spec in the game.

I would like to argue that if we are to go to that specific of a set-up then technically speaking a pure lightning sorc is still weaker than a range magblade as it has zero burst options at all and it relies entirely on staff abilities for a spammable.

But yes, range builds in general are not in a good spot right now outside of bow specs, mostly because staves are so weak compared to melee weapons/abilities outside of ele sus, even accounting for the fact that they have the range advantage.
It also doesn't help that 2/3 of the biggest counters to range specs are at the top of the food chain currently (wardens with slab and nb with invis and shade) and generic counters such as movement speed for LoS, dodge and block are insanely cheap/free too considering how tanky and high health the meta currently is.



Something slightly off topic that I have pondered for a little bit now, what affect would changing the passive raw damage bonus per sword equipped in DW/2H to be "increase damage done by X% per sword equipped" instead of "increase weapon/spell damage by flat amount per sword equipped". Damage wise, it should remain the same, but it would potentially reduce the healing power of DDs since they would have slightly lower base damage buffing their healing.

Can't see why one should drop pen except on a corrosive build. Only way to change would be to disable cross heal stacking and healing scaling off max stats exclusively while damage scaling off weap/spell dmg exclusively..... that won't happen in the foreseeable future.

PhoenixGrey

StaticWave wrote: »

As for people who may wonder why I think Magsorcs are still better than ranged Magblade, here's my reasoning:

When those two classes fight, the Sorc usually wins because their burst is more pressure based whereas the NB's burst is loaded into 1 big hit. Yes, the NB has the potential to land a 20k bow proc and 1 shot a Sorc. It sounds OP, but the drawback is that's all you have.

Think about it, if your entire burst is delivered by 1 ability that is not only easy to anticipate, but easy to avoid, then people are generally safe when they avoid that ability. That's what happens 99% of the time when a competent player duels a ranged Magblade. Since they don't have anything else outside of Spectral Bow, you are generally safe if you can avoid the 20k burst, and believe me it's really easy to do that.

That doesn't apply to Magsorc though. Yes, the Sorc's burst is also predictable and requires slotting Curse + Frag, but the biggest difference is the damage spreads out and still deals a significant amount to be considered burst damage. For example, Curse can crit for 6-8k depending on the target's mitigation, and Frag can crit for 7-11k. That's about equivalent to a NB's bow proc. However, since the damage comes from two abilities, you can choose to either 1) Time them to create a 20k burst similar to a NB's bow proc, or 2) Play like a pressure build and apply the burst one after another. This creates a situation where even if you dodge the Frag, you will still take damage from Curse. And no, Curse CANNOT BE BLOCKED OR ROLL DODGED. Whoever said it can be blocked seriously needs to prove it here...

Basically, this gives you the option to either one-shot someone like a NB, or switch to a pressure playstyle against someone that likes to spam roll dodges. This is why ranged magSorc is superior in practice even though on paper, ranged Magblade looks better.

I agree that the combo is easy to avoid in duels

But not in Open world pvp where it really matters.

Sorc needs to time 4 skills at minimum to get a kill. Magblade needs 1.

And if that one skill fails you get to rinse and repeat on nb by applying cloak and shade

Mag sorc defense does not work coz you probably used your *** cc like streak and gave up your range advantage. Shields are as thin as paper and you better hope to have a 50k magicka tank coz you gotta spam your one stackable defense skill. Oh wait I have dark conversion so I can reset the fight no ?

Wrong, because if you have that kind of stam regen your damage sucks so it’s better to play another class at this point

Mag sorc downright sucks right now. It’s a complete zero in defense, damage, sustain and mobility. In a high mmr bgs I win dm’s just by farming mag sorcs repetedly. It’s a joke right now.

I literally cannot pick a single mag sorc skill which is actually superior to what any other class has.

RemoryAzure

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Can't see why one should drop pen except on a corrosive build. Only way to change would be to disable cross heal stacking and healing scaling off max stats exclusively while damage scaling off weap/spell dmg exclusively..... that won't happen in the foreseeable future.

i guess he is talking about backbar swords, coz extra weapon damage gives more scaling on healing skills, this wont be the case if they change weapon damage into bonus damage dealt.
i WAS using backbar DW swords on almost all of my builds previously exactly for this reason, but now, since im mostly going critical damage/healing builds, i changed to daggers for healing crit chance and easier proc'ing of rallying cry. and i dunno how to fix this, if swords are gonna be changed, then people gonna swap to daggers and it will be somewhat the same situation...

AdamLAD

Let me also give some food for thought. Dual Wield provides over 1500 more weapon and spell damage if using nirnhoned on just one of the weapons in comparison to a stave. 2H at base provides roughly 300 more than a stave. Melee specs just in terms of raw power are stronger than any ranged build. Once that melee user is in melee range, the ranger user is immediately at a raw power disadvantage. Unfortunately most fights end up in melee range and all duels are.

StaticWave

Pelanora wrote: »

We need a poll! Yes/ no can you block curse!

Sigh... No, it's not blockable.

https://youtu.be/UfFfmBIN2sE

Literally a simple test in game can verify this, and a simple patch note read can verify this.

StaticWave

I have yet to see a Curse blocked after literally thousands of duels against magsorcs. Show me a video and I'll believe it lol

AdamLAD

Also played mag sorc for over 6 years now. Curse is not blockable or dodgeable. Its the only thing in our kit that's reliable for damage eventhough its a bit wet

StaticWave

AdamLAD wrote: »

Let me also give some food for thought. Dual Wield provides over 1500 more weapon and spell damage if using nirnhoned on just one of the weapons in comparison to a stave. 2H at base provides roughly 300 more than a stave. Melee specs just in terms of raw power are stronger than any ranged build. Once that melee user is in melee range, the ranger user is immediately at a raw power disadvantage. Unfortunately most fights end up in melee range and all duels are.

Don't forget Inferno staff gives 10% damage done to single target abilities which benefits magsorc a lot. But yes generally DW/2h give more penetration.

Melee generally are stronger in raw stats for a reason.

StaticWave

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

As for people who may wonder why I think Magsorcs are still better than ranged Magblade, here's my reasoning:

When those two classes fight, the Sorc usually wins because their burst is more pressure based whereas the NB's burst is loaded into 1 big hit. Yes, the NB has the potential to land a 20k bow proc and 1 shot a Sorc. It sounds OP, but the drawback is that's all you have.

Think about it, if your entire burst is delivered by 1 ability that is not only easy to anticipate, but easy to avoid, then people are generally safe when they avoid that ability. That's what happens 99% of the time when a competent player duels a ranged Magblade. Since they don't have anything else outside of Spectral Bow, you are generally safe if you can avoid the 20k burst, and believe me it's really easy to do that.

That doesn't apply to Magsorc though. Yes, the Sorc's burst is also predictable and requires slotting Curse + Frag, but the biggest difference is the damage spreads out and still deals a significant amount to be considered burst damage. For example, Curse can crit for 6-8k depending on the target's mitigation, and Frag can crit for 7-11k. That's about equivalent to a NB's bow proc. However, since the damage comes from two abilities, you can choose to either 1) Time them to create a 20k burst similar to a NB's bow proc, or 2) Play like a pressure build and apply the burst one after another. This creates a situation where even if you dodge the Frag, you will still take damage from Curse. And no, Curse CANNOT BE BLOCKED OR ROLL DODGED. Whoever said it can be blocked seriously needs to prove it here...

Basically, this gives you the option to either one-shot someone like a NB, or switch to a pressure playstyle against someone that likes to spam roll dodges. This is why ranged magSorc is superior in practice even though on paper, ranged Magblade looks better.

I agree that the combo is easy to avoid in duels

But not in Open world pvp where it really matters.

Sorc needs to time 4 skills at minimum to get a kill. Magblade needs 1.

And if that one skill fails you get to rinse and repeat on nb by applying cloak and shade

Mag sorc defense does not work coz you probably used your *** cc like streak and gave up your range advantage. Shields are as thin as paper and you better hope to have a 50k magicka tank coz you gotta spam your one stackable defense skill. Oh wait I have dark conversion so I can reset the fight no ?

Wrong, because if you have that kind of stam regen your damage sucks so it’s better to play another class at this point

Mag sorc downright sucks right now. It’s a complete zero in defense, damage, sustain and mobility. In a high mmr bgs I win dm’s just by farming mag sorcs repetedly. It’s a joke right now.

I literally cannot pick a single mag sorc skill which is actually superior to what any other class has.

Sure openworld is a different game and I get that. They've buffed magblade healing a lot to allow the class to at least survive now.

But idk why it matters to you specifically because if you're fighting a magblade openworld then you are still using the same method to avoid their big burst by roll dodging at the right time. If you're comparing both classes' way of delivering burst though, then yes I agree NB has it easier, but that doesn't mean you can't pull of the same burst on a Sorc. It just takes a bit more setup, but that's the cost of having 2 options of delivering your damage.

Like I said, a simple burst heal buff would solve all your current survivability issue. That's exactly how a ranged magNB can survive now. Remember they used to not have a burst heal and was really bad if you didn't use Shadow Cloak. Now they have a nice burst heal plus a bunch of HoTs and can actually survive without Shadow Cloak. Magsorc needs to get the same survivability treatment.

StaticWave

AdamLAD wrote: »

Also played mag sorc for over 6 years now. Curse is not blockable or dodgeable. Its the only thing in our kit that's reliable for damage eventhough its a bit wet

Yes, it's not blockable lol. Some people in this thread said I was wrong for saying it isn't blockable though. I mean I would know since I main sorc for 5 years.

Turtle_Bot

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Let me also give some food for thought. Dual Wield provides over 1500 more weapon and spell damage if using nirnhoned on just one of the weapons in comparison to a stave. 2H at base provides roughly 300 more than a stave. Melee specs just in terms of raw power are stronger than any ranged build. Once that melee user is in melee range, the ranger user is immediately at a raw power disadvantage. Unfortunately most fights end up in melee range and all duels are.

Don't forget Inferno staff gives 10% damage done to single target abilities which benefits magsorc a lot. But yes generally DW/2h give more penetration.

Melee generally are stronger in raw stats for a reason.

It's never made sense to me (thematically speaking) that the inferno staff is BiS for sorc when sorc is all about lightning. You would think that the lightning staff should be BiS since it fits thematically, but with sorc being almost entirely ST, lightning staff being AoE focused just doesn't do anything for the class, this also means that if you choose to run the destro skills, you miss out on the 5% increased lightning damage passive applying to those abilities (which gets very noticeable). This is honestly something that should be fixed as well (in the long term at least). "Play how you want", except if you want to play sorcerers themed element apparently.

Turtle_Bot

AdamLAD wrote: »

Let me also give some food for thought. Dual Wield provides over 1500 more weapon and spell damage if using nirnhoned on just one of the weapons in comparison to a stave. 2H at base provides roughly 300 more than a stave. Melee specs just in terms of raw power are stronger than any ranged build. Once that melee user is in melee range, the ranger user is immediately at a raw power disadvantage. Unfortunately most fights end up in melee range and all duels are.

FYI, if you use a 2h nirnhoned sword, you actually get 555 more base weapon/spell damage than if you were to run a nirnhoned staff (and it's 755 more base weapon/spell damage than if you were to run a non-nirnhoned staff).

2h got a buff a little while ago where they have 271 more raw damage on the weapons themselves (1806 base damage) than every other weapon type that takes up 2 slots (bow/destro/resto all at 1535).

DW still outperforms 2h due to the passives that boost DW damage even higher (6% of off hand + 15% against CC'd enemies (which includes off balance iirc) + 20% against enemies under 25% health on top of getting the same raw stats that 2h gets with the flexibility to mix and match those stats as needed).

StaticWave

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Let me also give some food for thought. Dual Wield provides over 1500 more weapon and spell damage if using nirnhoned on just one of the weapons in comparison to a stave. 2H at base provides roughly 300 more than a stave. Melee specs just in terms of raw power are stronger than any ranged build. Once that melee user is in melee range, the ranger user is immediately at a raw power disadvantage. Unfortunately most fights end up in melee range and all duels are.

FYI, if you use a 2h nirnhoned sword, you actually get 555 more base weapon/spell damage than if you were to run a nirnhoned staff (and it's 755 more base weapon/spell damage than if you were to run a non-nirnhoned staff).

2h got a buff a little while ago where they have 271 more raw damage on the weapons themselves (1806 base damage) than every other weapon type that takes up 2 slots (bow/destro/resto all at 1535).

DW still outperforms 2h due to the passives that boost DW damage even higher (6% of off hand + 15% against CC'd enemies (which includes off balance iirc) + 20% against enemies under 25% health on top of getting the same raw stats that 2h gets with the flexibility to mix and match those stats as needed).

Those DW passives only work with DW abilities. Most people don’t slot them so the only thing they are benefiting from is being able to use 2 enchants and have 2 different traits at 50% potency.

StaticWave

Correction: the ones dealing 15% extra dmg to CCed enemies you mentioned do work apparently, the passive I’m talking about that only apply to DW abilities is dealing extra dmg to low HP targets.

axi

AdamLAD wrote: »

Let me also give some food for thought. Dual Wield provides over 1500 more weapon and spell damage if using nirnhoned on just one of the weapons in comparison to a stave. 2H at base provides roughly 300 more than a stave. Melee specs just in terms of raw power are stronger than any ranged build. Once that melee user is in melee range, the ranger user is immediately at a raw power disadvantage. Unfortunately most fights end up in melee range and all duels are.

Where did You get that 1500 value from? Let me give You some food for thought. Off hand in dual wield provides only 26% of weapon/spell damage shown in weapon description. 20% is base and 6% is added after unlocking dual wield expert passive. it's around 350 weapon/spell dmg. Pretty far from 1500.

Pelanora

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Let me also give some food for thought. Dual Wield provides over 1500 more weapon and spell damage if using nirnhoned on just one of the weapons in comparison to a stave. 2H at base provides roughly 300 more than a stave. Melee specs just in terms of raw power are stronger than any ranged build. Once that melee user is in melee range, the ranger user is immediately at a raw power disadvantage. Unfortunately most fights end up in melee range and all duels are.

Don't forget Inferno staff gives 10% damage done to single target abilities which benefits magsorc a lot. But yes generally DW/2h give more penetration.

Melee generally are stronger in raw stats for a reason.

It's never made sense to me (thematically speaking) that the inferno staff is BiS for sorc when sorc is all about lightning. You would think that the lightning staff should be BiS since it fits thematically, but with sorc being almost entirely ST, lightning staff being AoE focused just doesn't do anything for the class, this also means that if you choose to run the destro skills, you miss out on the 5% increased lightning damage passive applying to those abilities (which gets very noticeable). This is honestly something that should be fixed as well (in the long term at least). "Play how you want", except if you want to play sorcerers themed element apparently.

Yea this annoys the [snip] out of me.

Really a sign of noone looking over and after the class as a whole, because this should be an obvious thing to get right.

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

PhoenixGrey

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Let me also give some food for thought. Dual Wield provides over 1500 more weapon and spell damage if using nirnhoned on just one of the weapons in comparison to a stave. 2H at base provides roughly 300 more than a stave. Melee specs just in terms of raw power are stronger than any ranged build. Once that melee user is in melee range, the ranger user is immediately at a raw power disadvantage. Unfortunately most fights end up in melee range and all duels are.

Don't forget Inferno staff gives 10% damage done to single target abilities which benefits magsorc a lot. But yes generally DW/2h give more penetration.

Melee generally are stronger in raw stats for a reason.

I m using an inferno because I m pigeonholed into it like pets.

Personally my ideal sorc will always be a dual wield sorc running zero heals. The most fun I had in this game was with that spec when it was viable.

PhoenixGrey

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Also played mag sorc for over 6 years now. Curse is not blockable or dodgeable. Its the only thing in our kit that's reliable for damage eventhough its a bit wet

Yes, it's not blockable lol. Some people in this thread said I was wrong for saying it isn't blockable though. I mean I would know since I main sorc for 5 years.

I honestly wish it was blockable and actually did some damage

PhoenixGrey

Typically the only reason why ppl use inferno staff on mag sorc is because mag sorc does not have a spammable.

That 10% damage to single target does not boost heals so it becomes useless automatically. Twin blade and blunt dw passive boosts all your damage skills and adds raw spell damage

Besides we have everyone wearing Mara’s balm these days. So you are technically healing your opponent while using the inferno staff.

Destro staff needs a nice buff to its ultimate to make it viable

StaticWave

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Let me also give some food for thought. Dual Wield provides over 1500 more weapon and spell damage if using nirnhoned on just one of the weapons in comparison to a stave. 2H at base provides roughly 300 more than a stave. Melee specs just in terms of raw power are stronger than any ranged build. Once that melee user is in melee range, the ranger user is immediately at a raw power disadvantage. Unfortunately most fights end up in melee range and all duels are.

Don't forget Inferno staff gives 10% damage done to single target abilities which benefits magsorc a lot. But yes generally DW/2h give more penetration.

Melee generally are stronger in raw stats for a reason.

It's never made sense to me (thematically speaking) that the inferno staff is BiS for sorc when sorc is all about lightning. You would think that the lightning staff should be BiS since it fits thematically, but with sorc being almost entirely ST, lightning staff being AoE focused just doesn't do anything for the class, this also means that if you choose to run the destro skills, you miss out on the 5% increased lightning damage passive applying to those abilities (which gets very noticeable). This is honestly something that should be fixed as well (in the long term at least). "Play how you want", except if you want to play sorcerers themed element apparently.

Well then you'd be surprised because Curse and Frag are both Magic dmg and don't benefit from the 5% Shock dmg passive lol. The passive doesn't even work with its class skills ))))

My suggestion is change it to 5% Magic damage instead and let magsorc keep using Inferno. That way they only lose some damage on Overload, but will gain more overall damage.

StaticWave

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Let me also give some food for thought. Dual Wield provides over 1500 more weapon and spell damage if using nirnhoned on just one of the weapons in comparison to a stave. 2H at base provides roughly 300 more than a stave. Melee specs just in terms of raw power are stronger than any ranged build. Once that melee user is in melee range, the ranger user is immediately at a raw power disadvantage. Unfortunately most fights end up in melee range and all duels are.

Don't forget Inferno staff gives 10% damage done to single target abilities which benefits magsorc a lot. But yes generally DW/2h give more penetration.

Melee generally are stronger in raw stats for a reason.

I m using an inferno because I m pigeonholed into it like pets.

Personally my ideal sorc will always be a dual wield sorc running zero heals. The most fun I had in this game was with that spec when it was viable.

Yes, ideally I would like to run DW sorcs with all burst. Hard-casting Frag to proc itself is also an option as a spammable since it's similar to Dizzying Swing, but not as strong as a pressure sorc build. I actually ran that setup with a hybrid sorc though, not pure magsorc.

StaticWave

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Also played mag sorc for over 6 years now. Curse is not blockable or dodgeable. Its the only thing in our kit that's reliable for damage eventhough its a bit wet

Yes, it's not blockable lol. Some people in this thread said I was wrong for saying it isn't blockable though. I mean I would know since I main sorc for 5 years.

I honestly wish it was blockable and actually did some damage

I fully support that, in fact I wanted both Curse and Purifying Light to be blockable but deal more damage than it currently does, not that it matters on Templar though with Javelin being unblockable (which was an unnecessary change in the first place).

Turtle_Bot

StaticWave wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Let me also give some food for thought. Dual Wield provides over 1500 more weapon and spell damage if using nirnhoned on just one of the weapons in comparison to a stave. 2H at base provides roughly 300 more than a stave. Melee specs just in terms of raw power are stronger than any ranged build. Once that melee user is in melee range, the ranger user is immediately at a raw power disadvantage. Unfortunately most fights end up in melee range and all duels are.

Don't forget Inferno staff gives 10% damage done to single target abilities which benefits magsorc a lot. But yes generally DW/2h give more penetration.

Melee generally are stronger in raw stats for a reason.

It's never made sense to me (thematically speaking) that the inferno staff is BiS for sorc when sorc is all about lightning. You would think that the lightning staff should be BiS since it fits thematically, but with sorc being almost entirely ST, lightning staff being AoE focused just doesn't do anything for the class, this also means that if you choose to run the destro skills, you miss out on the 5% increased lightning damage passive applying to those abilities (which gets very noticeable). This is honestly something that should be fixed as well (in the long term at least). "Play how you want", except if you want to play sorcerers themed element apparently.

Well then you'd be surprised because Curse and Frag are both Magic dmg and don't benefit from the 5% Shock dmg passive lol. The passive doesn't even work with its class skills ))))

My suggestion is change it to 5% Magic damage instead and let magsorc keep using Inferno. That way they only lose some damage on Overload, but will gain more overall damage.

oh, I know it doesn't buff frags or curse too. That's another thing that has always been strange to me, the class's main spammable and delayed burst not being buffed by the class's basic damage passive.

Honestly, the passive should just buff all sorc abilities by 5% instead of just lightning and physical. (or change the damage types of the magic morphs to be lightning damage instead of magic damage)

RemoryAzure

StaticWave wrote: »

Yes, it's not blockable lol. Some people in this thread said I was wrong for saying it isn't blockable though.

yep i was wrong about that coz i thought it works like any other aoe, but still, this doesnt make it usable for me

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

That's another thing that has always been strange to me, the class's main spammable and delayed burst not being buffed by the class's basic damage passive.

in some way the same goes for warden tho, coz he is now tied to proc chill status, but his class spammable deals magic damage