PTS Update 36 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

Tanis-Stormbinder

Changes to Backlash is just another nerf to Templar's.

Foxtrot39

Sure seems to be a lot of backlash with the proposed changes

ESO_Nightingale

.

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Sure seems to be a lot of backlash with the proposed changes

I hope zos doesn't give us the cold shoulder.

Firstmep

I hope, that with so few changes this update Zos will actually look at and act on feedback.
It's like 1 skill and couple of passives that got changed, so surely.

robertlabrie

Did something change with brawler? I was trying to kill mobs with it in PTS today and it would slash once then block instead of slashing till the countdown timer expired. I didn't see anything in the notes about it but the behavior is very different from live.

wuuzzum

Please stop these Warden nerfs. Just leave the class alone, full stop. Maybe buff some frost skills? Frost Wardens are very strong with the Master staff as it stands in my opinion. Just leave it alone lol. The magic damage nerf? Totally unneeded. Took me days to find a build I like after patch 35, like 6 days of in-game time, and now it’s being gutted again. It’s really putting PvP builds on rails. It’s discouraging patch after patch nerfing things on the same class over and over. I’ve played since 2017 and just made a forums account (with a lot of issues with customer service) to post this, and I have to say I don’t feel like playing anymore reading all the class changes the last two patches. I gave them the benefit of the doubt after u35, even if it was really discouraging, but this is too much and I hate to say it

Ariont

Syndem wrote: »

Most of all i miss my jabs animation and the damage i was doing (middle game player but progressing).
I feel like i pay the price for something i didn't do.

Same here! My stamplar a year ago I was finally able to break 80k. Now after all this "fixing things" I'm back to beating my head against the wall trying to break 50k. Jabs are horrible both in animation and timing. I feel like I've gone back 3 years now with my characters. I'm tired of all the constant changes that seem to only make matters worse for my game play.

MurkyWetWolf198

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

I am once again asking for a rework of consuming darkness, its been worthless for about 4 years already

Honestly, try Veil of Blades on backbar for PvE. It's a little smaller than Elemental Rage, but it lasts more than twice as long and gives Major Protection and has no cast time. It's damage is comparable too, though maybe it could use a slight increase.
However, hard agree for the other morph. This thing is so obsolete I'll bet that everyone reading this post couldn't even name it without looking it up. It gives a very bland defensive buff that you can get from much easier sources and brings nothing unique to the class. Honestly, this skill would be really nice if the caster could use the synergy too, like Avid Boneyard

From_Siberia

I have been trying to play my Templar with new Jabs for many-many days. ZOS, this is terrible. I was really trying to get used to this animation and big damage drop, but you again announced "changes" that resulted in another damage nerf. Revise your table, hire consultants from among active pvp-pve players and make game better. You need it as i see.

Separately, I want to say about jabs animation. I remember first time I saw Jabs from another player in dungeon. It was a long time ago, but I remember it. I was enchanted by jabs. Since then, I have developed a love for templar. I created a new character and I was happy. Jabs were visually beautiful, I liked it. But now you've taken that away from me. They just took and pulled out of my hands what I liked, and in return they gave a cheap fake. I tried to play with new jabs for a whole patch, but I was just disgusted. It's like my character was *** - I felt resentment, anger, and the feeling that no one was listening to me and that resistance was futile. It wasn't a numeric change in damage, it was an unfeeling annihilation of what I loved even after years. And I couldn't get used to new jabs, although I tried and did it purposefully. New jabs looks ugly and this is a statement of fact.
But even now you continue to humiliate my class by reducing damage of his class skills.

No, seriously, listen to my story, I want you to hear it.

1. I played magicka Templar in PvP with SnB-lighting staff build, enjoyed life. I roleplayed, I thought of my character as a Breton heavy magic knight. I used Living Dark instead of Vigor and only healed when I took damage like a damn knight. But you killed Living Dark. 1k hp in 0.5 seconds with Battlespirit debuff and need to take direct damage for this. "Thanks" for this. I've been thinking and abandoned this character and her build. I created a new Imperial character to play Stamplar and use vigor and heal like before. I could do it on old character, but stamina consumption was too high for a Breton focused on magical sustain. I was just looking for alternative ways to play comfortably.

2. I played stamplar and learned to rejoice in a new way. But I got a triple blow in stomach - you killed my Jabs: killed damage and animation, and also killed Burning light passive. You argued that you're doing this so that people can insert light attacks when using this skill. But what's surprising is that I could do this before your changes and had no difficulty with light attacks. But result is same - you killed jabs. The new animation is really ugly. What, were you offended by Jabs? Some your developer plays with a nightblade and trolls templars, while strengthening his class at same time? Oh, he's a very cool guy, his trolling is really good.

3. Now you want to finish my templar off by weakening my PL/PotL. My beaten character is standing in front of you and you - you killed her Living Dark, you killed her Jabs and Burning light. And now you keep hitting her. But she's still alive to spite you.

4. I tried to reduce my frustration level by playing my Necromancer healer in PvE. I loved going to dungeons with listening my music. I actively buffed my group and gave Empower to them. But it turns out that Empower is now just useless. This buff is now only for rare heavy attack builds. With Empower nerf I stopped being different from other healers. And I stopped going to dungeons and generally in pve.

I don't know what to say else, zos. I don't even know if you're listening to anyone. We all seem to be talking into the void and you just playing with development tools, but not playing your game.

I really hope these changes make your game perform better and your old engine feel better. But I started playing your game less. You don't let me do it, you kill everything I like. For what?

Pelanora

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Outside the squishies who die to everything, PvP combat in u35 is basically tanks running in circles healing at each other until someone randomly drops dead to a lucky burst..... wake me up when the devs decide they want PvP players to be able to pressure down health bars and actually go for the win, not just stall out fights until their opponents leave out of boredom.

I love this. I'm one of the squishies, but i still love this comment.

BasP

Tri Focus: This passive currently does not properly cause your Block to cost Magicka. This will be fixed in an upcoming patch.

I'm probably too optimistic, but the new bug of a Destruction Staff passive left me wondering... Could it be that its passives will be changed in a later PTS patch to make Frost Staffs more viable for DPS (preferably without tying Warden's passives to Frost Staffs)? One can hope.

YandereGirlfriend

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

I am once again asking for a rework of consuming darkness, its been worthless for about 4 years already

So much THIS.

I continue to be amazed at how anyone can look at this ultimate and think, "Yep, everything is fine here."

This is likely the worst ultimate in the game.

ESO_Nightingale

BasP wrote: »

Tri Focus: This passive currently does not properly cause your Block to cost Magicka. This will be fixed in an upcoming patch.

I'm probably too optimistic, but the new bug of a Destruction Staff passive left me wondering... Could it be that its passives will be changed in a later PTS patch to make Frost Staffs more viable for DPS (preferably without tying Warden's passives to Frost Staffs)? One can hope.

Huge agree here. At least dropping mag block cost would be nice.

Minalan

BalticBlues wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Backlash’s final damage now takes more overall damage to reach,
to make the payout less reliably reached in PvP scenarios.
These abilities are now once again limited to having one active at a time.

Why oh way do you GIMP HEALERS and especially Templars with each patch?
U36 KILLS BACKLASH in PVE as a useful skill for HEALERS.

Are MagTemplars now following the MagSorcs? Once great, now niche?
I am fed up and tired of all the Magicka Templar nerfs - patch by patch.
As I am fed up and tired of being forced to play Stamina in PvP - this is just boring...

It says a lot when people say that you’re going to “MagSorc” their class. It means broken, unplayable, and worse off than anyone else.

**Warden does not need as much help as we do.**

50K max magicka gets you a 12K hardened ward shield in PVP. That’s too small for the stat investment by at least 20%. The battle spirit shield cap is too harsh, the scaling is too low, or the scaling should be based on spell damage. Please fix this.

Every proc set scales on spell damage, which we cannot stack. We have to stack max stat, so there are so many good and fun sets that don’t work for us.

We don’t have access to spell penetration on any of our abilities. Haunting Curse doesn’t have a debuff like every other other class’ delayed damage skills. Crystal frags doesn’t have an armor debuff like crystal weapon does. Please consider this.

Our class heal is tied to the twilight pet that blows up for 20K+ with plague break and occult overload CP. No other class heal kills you, ours does. That doesn’t seem fair. Or right. Please fix this.

The magicka Sorc spec has class passives (energized) that improve lightning damage, but we lose 8% single target damage (almost every damage ability we use) unless we use a fire staff. Look into fixing destruction staff passives. Maybe they should all give an 8% damage buff (AOE and Single target), and let us use what’s best for our class passives.

Overload and Crystal frag projectiles are comically slow. Consider looking at speeding up at least frags, the 30% proc is infrequent and the damage is moderate at best. Again It would be nice if the ability gave a debuff of some kind like the Crystal weapon morph,

Mr_Stach

Minalan wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Backlash’s final damage now takes more overall damage to reach,
to make the payout less reliably reached in PvP scenarios.
These abilities are now once again limited to having one active at a time.

Why oh way do you GIMP HEALERS and especially Templars with each patch?
U36 KILLS BACKLASH in PVE as a useful skill for HEALERS.

Are MagTemplars now following the MagSorcs? Once great, now niche?
I am fed up and tired of all the Magicka Templar nerfs - patch by patch.
As I am fed up and tired of being forced to play Stamina in PvP - this is just boring...

**Warden does not need as much help as we do.**

I will definitely agree that Sorc needs a lot of help. Anyone with half a brain could see this. But just because Sorc needs to be fixed urgently, does not mean that warden doesn't help. Classes aren't at war with each other for getting fixes, Zos should be able to weigh these VERY apparent pain points and address them, but unfortunately that's not always what we get.

I really don't want any class to be bad in any content. There should not be any weak Classes in any content.

Minalan

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Backlash’s final damage now takes more overall damage to reach,
to make the payout less reliably reached in PvP scenarios.
These abilities are now once again limited to having one active at a time.

Why oh way do you GIMP HEALERS and especially Templars with each patch?
U36 KILLS BACKLASH in PVE as a useful skill for HEALERS.

Are MagTemplars now following the MagSorcs? Once great, now niche?
I am fed up and tired of all the Magicka Templar nerfs - patch by patch.
As I am fed up and tired of being forced to play Stamina in PvP - this is just boring...

**Warden does not need as much help as we do.**

I will definitely agree that Sorc needs a lot of help. Anyone with half a brain could see this. But just because Sorc needs to be fixed urgently, does not mean that warden doesn't help. Classes aren't at war with each other for getting fixes, Zos should be able to weigh these VERY apparent pain points and address them, but unfortunately that's not always what we get.

I really don't want any class to be bad in any content. There should not be any weak Classes in any content.

Sorc needs fixes, meanwhile ZOS is busy nailing an ice staff into your hands when you don’t necessarily want one.

It’s a problem. Warden could skip these changes and still be in a much better spot.

MurkyWetWolf198

Minalan wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Backlash’s final damage now takes more overall damage to reach,
to make the payout less reliably reached in PvP scenarios.
These abilities are now once again limited to having one active at a time.

Why oh way do you GIMP HEALERS and especially Templars with each patch?
U36 KILLS BACKLASH in PVE as a useful skill for HEALERS.

Are MagTemplars now following the MagSorcs? Once great, now niche?
I am fed up and tired of all the Magicka Templar nerfs - patch by patch.
As I am fed up and tired of being forced to play Stamina in PvP - this is just boring...

**Warden does not need as much help as we do.**

I will definitely agree that Sorc needs a lot of help. Anyone with half a brain could see this. But just because Sorc needs to be fixed urgently, does not mean that warden doesn't help. Classes aren't at war with each other for getting fixes, Zos should be able to weigh these VERY apparent pain points and address them, but unfortunately that's not always what we get.

I really don't want any class to be bad in any content. There should not be any weak Classes in any content.

Sorc needs fixes, meanwhile ZOS is busy nailing an ice staff into your hands when you don’t necessarily want one.

It’s a problem. Warden could skip these changes and still be in a much better spot.

No, Warden's are in a very bad spot right now, at least in high-end PvE. They are so weak (in terms of damage) that they're almost unusable in difficult content.
Sorcs, Temps and Wardens need help rn.

Mr_Stach

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Backlash’s final damage now takes more overall damage to reach,
to make the payout less reliably reached in PvP scenarios.
These abilities are now once again limited to having one active at a time.

Why oh way do you GIMP HEALERS and especially Templars with each patch?
U36 KILLS BACKLASH in PVE as a useful skill for HEALERS.

Are MagTemplars now following the MagSorcs? Once great, now niche?
I am fed up and tired of all the Magicka Templar nerfs - patch by patch.
As I am fed up and tired of being forced to play Stamina in PvP - this is just boring...

**Warden does not need as much help as we do.**

I will definitely agree that Sorc needs a lot of help. Anyone with half a brain could see this. But just because Sorc needs to be fixed urgently, does not mean that warden doesn't help. Classes aren't at war with each other for getting fixes, Zos should be able to weigh these VERY apparent pain points and address them, but unfortunately that's not always what we get.

I really don't want any class to be bad in any content. There should not be any weak Classes in any content.

Sorc needs fixes, meanwhile ZOS is busy nailing an ice staff into your hands when you don’t necessarily want one.

It’s a problem. Warden could skip these changes and still be in a much better spot.

No, Warden's are in a very bad spot right now, at least in high-end PvE. They are so weak (in terms of damage) that they're almost unusable in difficult content.
Sorcs, Temps and Wardens need help rn.

Yeah, Wardens need help in pve and I know people will think it sounds crazy but also in pvp, at least from the more magicka focused side.

Part of the reason is once again Advanced Species, they have switched one easily cappable stat for another. They really should revert Advanced Species back to % damage done or switch it to w/s damage, crit chance, or maybe a combination of the two.

Next. Warden needs to have better harmony between it's Skills and Passives, right now it just has a lot of things that "do things" but really they don't work together in a macro sense. Which is why we even though there has been some pushback from some, pushed for a revitalization of Warden to get the Dragonknight treatment to have the damage types across the skill trees in sync.

But it doesn't matter how much we push it or how many people we have on board if Zos does not listen or if they actively make changes like the Piercing Cold rework that actively hurt Warden's viability in every stage of play.

Anywho, that's the end of my rant. I doubt that today's patch notes will be any more useful than last week's. But I hope Zos will prove me wrong.

Cast_El

Buff damage shield when battle spirit is active and make it able to Crit will fix sorcerer issues.

Templar : still lack of damage from jab

Warden: deep fissure is still too strong for pvp.

Red99

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/619068/magsorc-is-terrible-for-pvp-issues-suggestions-for-update-36#latest

Mr_Stach

Cast_El wrote: »

Buff damage shield when battle spirit is active and make it able to Crit will fix sorcerer issues.

Templar : still lack of damage from jab

Warden: deep fissure is still too strong for pvp.

I'm sorry.

I don't see how Deep Fissure is too strong. It's a Delayed, Skill Shot Burst Skill that you can mitigate very easily with Major Evasion.

In U35 it took a 20% Nerf to the Face and the second hit has a 6 second delay is buffed but is often doomed to miss.

Now I will say that Zos messed up (on several things but let's stay focused) and they forgot the put in the growing ground circle that is a timer indication for people to see when the second hit will pop out and that should be fixed, that is an Animation oversight.

But aside from them sending Scorch and Morphs back to Summerset with some re-imaginings, I don't think it needs to be nerfed again.

Cast_El

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Cast_El wrote: »

Buff damage shield when battle spirit is active and make it able to Crit will fix sorcerer issues.

Templar : still lack of damage from jab

Warden: deep fissure is still too strong for pvp.

I'm sorry.

I don't see how Deep Fissure is too strong. It's a Delayed, Skill Shot Burst Skill that you can mitigate very easily with Major Evasion.

In U35 it took a 20% Nerf to the Face and the second hit has a 6 second delay is buffed but is often doomed to miss.

Now I will say that Zos messed up (on several things but let's stay focused) and they forgot the put in the growing ground circle that is a timer indication for people to see when the second hit will pop out and that should be fixed, that is an Animation oversight.

But aside from them sending Scorch and Morphs back to Summerset with some re-imaginings, I don't think it needs to be nerfed again.

Major and minor breach? And it hit hard 2 times. It's like if dev add major and minor breach to sorcerer curse

Mr_Stach

Cast_El wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Cast_El wrote: »

Buff damage shield when battle spirit is active and make it able to Crit will fix sorcerer issues.

Templar : still lack of damage from jab

Warden: deep fissure is still too strong for pvp.

I'm sorry.

I don't see how Deep Fissure is too strong. It's a Delayed, Skill Shot Burst Skill that you can mitigate very easily with Major Evasion.

In U35 it took a 20% Nerf to the Face and the second hit has a 6 second delay is buffed but is often doomed to miss.

Now I will say that Zos messed up (on several things but let's stay focused) and they forgot the put in the growing ground circle that is a timer indication for people to see when the second hit will pop out and that should be fixed, that is an Animation oversight.

But aside from them sending Scorch and Morphs back to Summerset with some re-imaginings, I don't think it needs to be nerfed again.

Major and minor breach? And it hit hard 2 times. It's like if dev add major and minor breach to sorcerer curse

That is a separate issue and I agree on that front, I think that Scorch and morphs should go back to Summerset where both had just Major breach with some tweaks. I personally don't think that fissure should have Minor Breach, but that's the hand we're dealt.

But once again, Sorcerer Curse is a targeted spell, if it is on you, it WILL hit twice guaranteed, once applied you can forget about it. with Fissure you need to aim both hits and it can be mitigated with evasion. You can apply Elemental Drain on a target to make both hits of curse to be big hits as well.

I am not trying to excuse Fissure for being overloaded with both Major and Minor Breach, I think it's too much personally, I would much prefer something more interesting but I want to be clear, it takes infinitely more skill to hit with both hits of Fissure than it does to apply Curse to someone, that's a fact.

The Damage is not the issue, the effect attached is.

YandereGirlfriend

Can we please just NOT go through with tying a CLASS passive to a specific WEAPON type? This is a misguided and dangerous avenue to be taking the game down, especially in the context of "Play how you want", which is THE selling-point of the game for tons of casual players.

The buff to Chilled damage is actually cool/interesting if the damage can be scaled high enough to make an impact. THAT is the sort of synergistic tweak that gives classes depth and that make them fun to play. Stipulating that "Thou shalt play with a Frost Staff equipped" is the opposite of that. Any non-Frost Warden is rightly feeling punished by this PTS cycle's tranche of changes.

And like - we STILL have the 100% useless Icy Aura passive hanging out there, untouched. This is simply dead weight in the class kit (and for Redguards as well, but that is a separate issue...) that could easily be repurposed for something much more interesting. Hint, hint. Nudge, nudge.

gariondavey

Week 3 and no templar changes other than the backlash changes from week 1 (which are questionable at best). Not very impressed. If week 4 or 5 doesn't contain something good...

PrinceShroob

You are attempting to retroactively force Wardens to be cyromancers, at the expense of both its original flavor as a druid and its competitive balance. You are doing this because, due to hardware limitations and your own inability to balance other than through erratic swings, you will not introduce a new cyromancer class.

You will not succeed because you are altering Warden too far from its roots and not far enough to be a workable cyromancer.

Either abandon your attempts or fully commit to them. Your current efforts are half-hearted and half-assed.

To wit, you have taken away about 8% flat damage increase and a 10% tooltip damage increase from Magic and Frost damage skills, to replace with a paltry 2% increase. This is unacceptable--particularly for a paid class.

I have never seen an incremental patch where all the changes are buffs and yet resoundingly rejected, which is a testament to your incompetence. And Gina has to market your madness, poor dear.

Take the following suggestions:

1. Adjust Advanced Species to provide an uncapped boost--Critical Chance, Spell and Weapon Damage, whatever. I really do not give a damn what you pick as long as it's not one of the only two capped stats in the game.

2. Adjust the weighting of Piercing Cold to be closer to 8-10% damage bonus flat with an additional 2% (or higher) for using a frost staff.

I have stayed within the boundaries of the patch changes, as I recognize that larger changes are unlikely to occur. That said, I strongly encourage you to make further adjustments to the changes you have implemented, as I can see you do want to atone for the damage you wrought in Update 35 and actually listening to feedback goes a long way to repairing the fractured relationship with your player base.

master_vanargand

I think what ZoS wants and what Players want are too different.
The world that creators want to create is not fun for us.
Players feel creators are destroying fun toys.

Mr_Stach

PrinceShroob wrote: »

You are attempting to retroactively force Wardens to be cyromancers, at the expense of both its original flavor as a druid and its competitive balance. You are doing this because, due to hardware limitations and your own inability to balance other than through erratic swings, you will not introduce a new cyromancer class.

You will not succeed because you are altering Warden too far from its roots and not far enough to be a workable cyromancer.

Either abandon your attempts or fully commit to them. Your current efforts are half-hearted and half-assed.

To wit, you have taken away about 8% flat damage increase and a 10% tooltip damage increase from Magic and Frost damage skills, to replace with a paltry 2% increase. This is unacceptable--particularly for a paid class.

I have never seen an incremental patch where all the changes are buffs and yet resoundingly rejected, which is a testament to your incompetence. And Gina has to market your madness, poor dear.

Take the following suggestions:

1. Adjust Advanced Species to provide an uncapped boost--Critical Chance, Spell and Weapon Damage, whatever. I really do not give a damn what you pick as long as it's not one of the only two capped stats in the game.

2. Adjust the weighting of Piercing Cold to be closer to 8-10% damage bonus flat with an additional 2% (or higher) for using a frost staff.

I have stayed within the boundaries of the patch changes, as I recognize that larger changes are unlikely to occur. That said, I strongly encourage you to make further adjustments to the changes you have implemented, as I can see you do want to atone for the damage you wrought in Update 35 and actually listening to feedback goes a long way to repairing the fractured relationship with your player base.

I mean Part of Warden's original flavor as expressed had Cryomancy as a main feature along with the Druidism. I don't think it was ever adequately expressed though and honestly still don't think it is with these changes.



That being said, Forcing Frost Staff upon all of warden players is not a great Idea, my suggestion is to make the damage bonus to instead be a more modest 6% damage and bump it up to 8-10% while a Winter's Embrace Skill is Active. Also with this remove the Destro staff dependance on Winter's Revenge.

I agree with Advanced Species Stuff though.

MurkyWetWolf198

Has anyone been able to test the dps increase to chilled on wardens? Can a console player with no PTS access get some numbers please?

LeHarrt91

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Has anyone been able to test the dps increase to chilled on wardens? Can a console player with no PTS access get some numbers please?

There has been lots of testing on Discords like Skinny Cheeks, some tests have Chill as the number one source of damage.