Magsorc is terrible for PvP (issues & suggestions for Update 36)

MalcolM24

Hi everyone,

After seeing the PTS patch notes I noticed that magsorc doesn't recieve any changes next patch, so I thought I'd make this post to highlight the many issues with it in PvP. It really has nothing against the other classes anymore, and I feel like it's been ignored for a while now. I'd also like to make some suggestions to improve its situation together with some video examples that I made earlier on YouTube.

So for starters, a quick overview of the issues:
- Shields are weaker than heals from other classes
- Stacking max magicka is weaker than stacking spell damage
- It's supposed to be a bursty class but it has nothing compared to the burst from other classes, including those that focus more on DoTs.
- On top of hitting less hard, magsorc is also easily countered by roll dodge and its "burst" is very predictable

All this is explained more in detail in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm4XcgWQR9o

And an overview of some ideas for solutions:
- Add secondary effects to hardened ward to make it stronger
- Make shields scale of spell damage
- Rework pets to make them usuable in PvP (e.g. by making them untargetable like the Maw of the Infernal change back in the day and/or by making them a temporary summon that requires only 1 skill slot like Necromancer pets)
- Add secondary effects to the offensive toolkit (e.g. add minor or major breach to curse or make curse apply a damage buff to other sorcerer abilities while curse is active)
- Make the offensive toolkit less predictable (e.g. make endless fury hit instantly or undodgeable like before)

All this is explained more in detail in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH0LZ-8r8JY

I hope this may bring some more attention from the devs to the situation of magsorc in PvP.
All right that's it, thanks for reading and have a good day!

IAmIcehouse

They absolutely need to up pet HP. Damage has gone up so much over the past few years, damage mitigation too. Pet health hasn’t been touched at all.

The only real way to defend them is shielding, max mag scaling, which has gone down significantly in value.

As much as I hate pet sorcs, they need to buff their max health significantly to be remotely viable. I remember an emp who was a decent sorc and ran bird, all you had to do was single target his 20K HP bird and then he had no defenses left.

Give those dumb pets a buff…except the clannfear of shame. I never want to see that thing again

BlackCatOnline-

I agree magicka sorcerer definitely could use some love from the developers, but I want to mention a couple things.

Having an opponent being able to streak than twice in a few seconds is super annoying. Though many PvPers build for speed, which hurts magsorc class identity a bit, it can be really frustrating trying to chase when all the have to do is spam that dash skill and heal before you catch up.

The other thing is I feel like sorc has got to have the easiest execute in the game. One button tap can destroy weakened opponents at range. Sometimes this results in kill stealing. Meanwhile the nightblade next to you might be struggling to land an executioner or killers blade as their target keeps circling just out of reach. Good thing we have spin2win right?

... Opponents hiding behind pets is annoying too...

Still those ideas on adding effects to sorcerer abilities are interesting and would be nice to have. And speaking of shield buffs I'd appreciate if they were buffed for the purpose of dragonknight healing. Not that dragonknight isn't already a strong enough class but dk healer is pretty cool in my opinion

#MakeMagsorcGreatAgain

IAmIcehouse

BlackCatOnline- wrote: »

I agree magicka sorcerer definitely could use some love from the developers, but I want to mention a couple things.

Having an opponent being able to streak than twice in a few seconds is super annoying. Though many PvPers build for speed, which hurts magsorc class identity a bit, it can be really frustrating trying to chase when all the have to do is spam that dash skill and heal before you catch up.

The other thing is I feel like sorc has got to have the easiest execute in the game. One button tap can destroy weakened opponents at range. Sometimes this results in kill stealing. Meanwhile the nightblade next to you might be struggling to land an executioner or killers blade as their target keeps circling just out of reach. Good thing we have spin2win right?

... Opponents hiding behind pets is annoying too...

Still those ideas on adding effects to sorcerer abilities are interesting and would be nice to have. And speaking of shield buffs I'd appreciate if they were buffed for the purpose of dragonknight healing. Not that dragonknight isn't already a strong enough class but dk healer is pretty cool in my opinion

#MakeMagsorcGreatAgain

Absolutely, when sorc is strong, it’s probably the most frustrating meta to play in. I would always prefer magsorc to underperform than overperform just because when magsorc is strong, there’s just not a lot of counterplay to the mobility, power from range, and constant pressure. But right now they’re so far from that and their defensive kit is severely lacking.

Wild idea, adjust shield strength via battle spirit.

MashmalloMan

Love ya Malcom, been watching your content for like 6 years now. Good to see you expressing your view on the class for the forums so we can get some change. It's really hard to unify Sorc mains view on what needs to be done for the class because the class is split in so many different playstyles, as well as being notorious for being a cheasy/op class from launch. People still acting like Sorc is in the state it was 5 years ago when you could nuke everyone with a simple meteor combo. Seems like there is this stigma against Sorcs sometimes. Your input should be taken as very valuable seeing as you've known the ins and outs of mag sorc more than anyone else I can think of.

Some quickies I'd like to see changed:

1. Swap magic to physical/shock damage. Simple, magic damage does nothing and doesn't suit the class. DK's can have all fire/poison, Warden/Sorc's should be updated with that in mind. 5% won't change much, but it's a quality of life thing nonetheless.
2. Hybrid scaling for shields, not just spell damage, but weapon/stamina scaling. Resto staff shields scale this way. This is a no brainer. Breaks the chains Mag Sorc has been shackled to for years while giving opportunities (although probably rare due to high mag cost) for Stam Sorc
3. Finish Hybridization.. Minor Prophecy still useless for Stam Sorc since Major Prophecy only possible via off resource pots or a skill we don't have space for like Camo Hunter.
4. Change 1 morph of Endless Fury/Mages Wrath to scale from 50% HP like Executioner, remove the delayed burst damage and make it upfront only. Skill already has a minimum travel time people aren't aware of due to it appearing from above their heads (try using it in melee range in place of Executioner, it will be dodged all the time).
5. Update passives that have fallen behind. The 2% damage passive is vastly undertuned in comparison to the 300 raw damage DK/NB/Warden's get.
6. Healing/Mitigation passives? Anything? The only thing we had was 20% HP regen which has completely died off due to Battlespirit nerfs. I understand Sorc and NB are examples of classes that are suppose to rely on Evasion, but over time tanky classes like DK/Templar have begun to receive damage improvements because ZOS thinks every class should be able to do everything. There has been no compensation whatsoever for Sorc.
7. Basic Named buffs/debuffs to increase build variety as Sorc has the lowest access of any class. E.g Major Prophecy/Savagery on Haunting Curse, Empower on Daedric Prey... Major Breach on something no one uses like Shattering Prison. Not asking for a lot here.
8. Hybridize Bound Aegis and Bound Armaments. No one wants/needs 8% max resources when both Mag/Stam should be able to use either morph now. I'd suggest HP for Bound Aegis (double down on it being defensive) and Crit Chance for Bound Armaments, change it from passive to actively provided like Mercilous Resolve (works on back bar).

Fixing shields won't fix the problem of falling behind to other classes that can slot burst heals on 1 bar because Flappy bird will forever be usesless and Shields can't crit.. but it's a start.

Ideas like a new passive for Sorc that reduces damage taken or increases movement speed when they have a shield active would help mitigate that.

MashmalloMan

BlackCatOnline- wrote: »

Having an opponent being able to streak than twice in a few seconds is super annoying. Though many PvPers build for speed, which hurts magsorc class identity a bit, it can be really frustrating trying to chase when all the have to do is spam that dash skill and heal before you catch up.

Direct counter = any gap closer in the game.

Have you ever tried chasing a streaking Sorc? They're wasting a GCD and a hefty mag cost to move 15m when gap closers are 22m. Most people just give up when they see a Sorc Streak away or they waste time sprinting after them. I understand skills like Streak and Shadowy Disguise have always caused debates about their power, but they have big counters now. You can completely negate both skills by using counters.

The problem is, people don't value gap closers enough so they don't slot them. I personally can't play without 1 despite also using Streak in my builds.. Chasing down Sorcs is very rewarding because they don't have the ability to bounce back without the distance between them and you. If you stay on top of them, most Mag Sorcs crumble. Some also don't expect it so they panic.

BlackCatOnline- wrote: »

The other thing is I feel like sorc has got to have the easiest execute in the game. One button tap can destroy weakened opponents at range. Sometimes this results in kill stealing. Meanwhile the nightblade next to you might be struggling to land an executioner or killers blade as their target keeps circling just out of reach. Good thing we have spin2win right?

Fury/Mages Wrath have the weakest tooltips in the game. The only benefit is that it's a delayed execute that auto procs at 20% hp, thus they're best used as a kill stealing skill instead of a spammable execute. This is why they almost never make it on to a pve Sorc's bar, they simply don't do enough extra damage to warrant only using them at 20% hp.

They are also not instant with a minimum travel time, so they can be easily dodged making them super unreliable when you need them most. Against competent players, Fury is never worth using actively when someone falls in execute range because thats when they're going to dodge like a madman. The only good way to use it is to proc it early, then try and get them below 20% via a damage combo like Meteor + Haunting within that short window.

It's best use case is kill stealing in BGs and Ball groups at the back of a pack, most of the time those players are literally spamming it on everyone hoping for it to proc, not sure what can be done about that.. but I've found it to be way too unreliable and situational to ever warrant a skill slot. It's always the first to go in any build I make because it does nothing 95% of the time.

Aslo, arguably, Jesus beam is a not only a better kill stealing skill, but it completely melts at a higher range, making it worth the slot more often than not. It always makes its way on pve builds due to that. If you think Executioner is dodged easily, try Fury, especially in melee range and you'll see how frustrating it is. I'd rather spam Crushing Shock than bother with Fury, while also saving a skill slot for something else that maybe improves upfront damage.

I'd love if they completely removed the delayed burst on 1 morph or both for something direct. Wish they took the same aproach they had with NBs to Sorc, something new.

BlackCatOnline- wrote: »

... Opponents hiding behind pets is annoying too...

For sure, but technically you can tab target someone and thats not an issue. People just don't use it because it's not muscle memory at this point, but if you teach yourself to use it, it will never be a problem again.

PhoenixGrey

The game is been designed by nightblade visionaries for last few years and sorc is not the focus here

acastanza_ESO

Thank you for adding your voice here on this topic! Maybe we can finally get ZOS to actually listen and do something about the absolutely embarrassing state they've let Sorcerer fall too.

Mr_Stach

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Thank you for adding your voice here on this topic! Maybe we can finally get ZOS to actually listen and do something about the absolutely embarrassing state they've let Sorcerer fall too.

As someone on the receiving end of Zos Listening on doing something, I wish you luck.

Vizima

Yup, agree with everything Malcom posted about here, as it stands sorc is the worst class in pvp atm

Overamera

Devs are sleeping. So I will just quit this game and hope they can make it more balanced within a few years and maybe return. No point in playing this if the only class you enjoy is acutal garbage in pvp

Caribou77

Heres how pvp magsorcs can get revenge:

Craft yourself a set of Kvatch Gladiator. Crappy set, but increases your damage by 1475 on targets below 25% health. Farm/buy a Spinners set, and equip enough light armor to get your pen around 17k without having to mess with Elemental Susceptibility. Last task: craft some invisibility pots.

Now get into your battleground or cyro and pretend like you’re an NB ganker. Either sneak or use invis pots to creep around and find a good vantage point to watch the combat from a distance. Wait… wait… wait… watch those health bars diminish…. Start spamming the crap out of Endless Fury! Someone comes after you? Hit Streak 3 times, roll dodge and pop your invis potion… creep away.

Repeat.

It’s not a playstyle I find at all rewarding. I enjoy prolonged brawls where you get to test your skills and reaction times and unique playing style against other good players.

But while MagSorc is broken, might as well be annoying af, like a certain other class that shall remain unnamed.

Dr_Con

@MashmalloMan

I think you are underestimating the power of a surprise fury. I don't think it necessary to tell you how to play the game, but I'll just remind you... few abilities in the game don't tell you exactly who a spell came from as it is cast, fury is one of them. In fact you list a bunch of abilities where it's difficult to ascertain the origin unless staring at the caster (haunting/daedric prey, mage's meteor). You mention that someone will dodge roll like a madman- yes I've seen this behavior before, but only because people are directly staring at me and I didn't bother to stun them. You can often catch people off guard with soul trap and entropy as well, though they are just crummy dot examples. Templar beam tells you exactly who the threat is and where it's coming from, any sort of auto attack or ability pretty much does the same. A fury comes from above and will catch anyone offguard.

I always have seen the sorc as a very tactical class, and when I get very brazen, sloppy, or deviate from being tactical is when I start to get bad results.

Turtle_Bot

Caribou77 wrote: »

Heres how pvp magsorcs can get revenge:

Craft yourself a set of Kvatch Gladiator. Crappy set, but increases your damage by 1475 on targets below 25% health. Farm/buy a Spinners set, and equip enough light armor to get your pen around 17k without having to mess with Elemental Susceptibility. Last task: craft some invisibility pots.

Now get into your battleground or cyro and pretend like you’re an NB ganker. Either sneak or use invis pots to creep around and find a good vantage point to watch the combat from a distance. Wait… wait… wait… watch those health bars diminish…. Start spamming the crap out of Endless Fury! Someone comes after you? Hit Streak 3 times, roll dodge and pop your invis potion… creep away.

Repeat.

It’s not a playstyle I find at all rewarding. I enjoy prolonged brawls where you get to test your skills and reaction times and unique playing style against other good players.

But while MagSorc is broken, might as well be annoying af, like a certain other class that shall remain unnamed.

you forgot the stage 4 vampire for that invisibility while sprinting passive and don't forget to slot the CP that restores mag while you're sprinting so if they do catch you while you are trying to sprint away invisible, you can streak another 3 times. Or you know, just play a good class

Caribou77

I respectfully disagree, Dr Con. Magsorc shouldn’t have to crutch on stealing kills with Endless Fury to be viable. Sure, you can play tactical and steal kills, but it’s not dynamic or fun, for me.

Just opinion, of course. People are free to enjoy the game as they wish.

Caribou77

“Or you know, just play a good class [/quote]”

Totally agree Turtle. My MagSorc has been shelved for a couple months. Poor thing is relegated to inventory mule.

FrankonPC

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but magicka sorcerer sucks. The only thing the kit has is overload and streak...and overload requires a desync a good portion of the time in open world.

Props to players that are still playing and winning with mag sorc in pvp. You're playing the game in hardmode. I would love to see some nice sorc buffs in the future as well to bring the class more in line with where seemingly everyone else is.

Dr_Con

Caribou77 wrote: »

I respectfully disagree, Dr Con. Magsorc shouldn’t have to crutch on stealing kills with Endless Fury to be viable. Sure, you can play tactical and steal kills, but it’s not dynamic or fun, for me.

Just opinion, of course. People are free to enjoy the game as they wish.

@Caribou77

I feel you're misinterpreting how I play sorc. Sorcs excel in chipping away the hp of full hp targets more than anyone. Knowing when to estimate when an enemy's CC immunity is off CD, and streaking through them so you can benefit from the stun while you land a crystal fragment to their back to benefit from the backstabber CP is part of playing the class. Would I enjoy a free root like DK's have? Sure, but I don't feel I need to pin my targets down. We can straight up reposition and flank better than any class, but this class is not often not played this way. There are some things I don't like for sure, like how I have to slot a stam ability like camoflaged hunter or some select set choices together, but overall I enjoy the class thoroughly and am willing to deal with these minor inconveniences.

Alternatively a sorc can play on the sidelines and be killstealers like you imply, this would be the same sort of criticism that night blades get.

I am looking forward to the new mythic that will allow break free, sprint, roll dodge, etc to cost mana rather than stam and would strongly suggest withholding calls to action for buffs until some weeks after u36 happens. If we don't see meaningful differences, then I would be in support of some of the community proposed changes.

Turtle_Bot

Couldn't agree more. Hopefully the devs will listen to this and take the feedback seriously.


Some simple changes that would make the class playable.
- change all magic damage to shock or physical damage to work with the passives
- make shields scale with raw damage and max stats to free up build options for the class
- rework crystal weapon to be what it was in U33 (more damage, but only for 1 hit and with a 4 second timer instead of 6)
- haunting curse inflicts minor vulnerability on its target and the damage will proc if the curse is cleansed (the second proc won't start its timer if the first is cleansed), crazy how a curse that is supposed to haunt its victim just completely vanishes without any consequences if its cleansed.


Some more long-term changes that would include the above.
- update the passives, most of the other classes get the equivalent of 2 of sorcs passives from just 1 of their own or an equivalent passive from a much easier activation condition and their passives work seamlessly with the majority of their kits.
- rework mages fury and both morphs to instantly deal the execute damage when cast and change 1 morph to scale from 50% health.
- rework frags to have no cast time and to increase its damage of the proc cast from a flat 66% on proc to one that scales the next proc by 25% per non proc cast of frags (to a max of 75%) base damage would be reduced slightly (about 10-15%) to compensate for the increased max proc damage bonus and being instant cast all the time.
- rework rune cage to become a sticky dot that deals a small burst of damage and attempts to stun the target with its current 3 second delay if the effect ends (even if it ends early or is purged), rework defensive rune to be a sticky HoT that lasts for 10 seconds, reduce the delay on the attempt to stun if it's triggered down to 1 second from 3 and if it is triggered within 3 seconds of casting the skill it provides a small burst heal.
- rework daedric prey into a sticky dot that deals its damage over the duration instead of all at once at the end of the timer making it less punishing when using the skill. reduce the pet bonus damage to 25% (will balance this out later on in the list)
- make dark deal/dark conversion into an instant cast ability that scales off raw damage (or at least make it ignore battle spirit considering its a flat heal that tooltips before battle spirit reduction for what every other class heal actually heals for after battle spirit reduction is taken into account).
- make crit surge work with any damage, not just critical damage, reduce its heal amount to balance it out, make the other morph into a buff that has a chance to add a small additional heal every time you heal an ally with another ability (does not work off its own heal to prevent looping)
- have the bird pets grant major prophecy/savagery while slotted and either increase their damage and max health, OR, make them an instant summon, timed pet (like necro pets) that only takes up a single bar slot that grants their secondary ability (heal or bonus damage) if cast again while they are active.
- buff scamp/clannfear damage
- allow for 1 morph of the atro to allow the caster to self-activate the synergy that grants major berserk
- bound armaments grants minor berserk while its active, bound aegis (already provides minor protection) can be recast at a similar cost to bound armaments to grant a small damage shield (half the value of ward) or unique value of around 2.5k additional resistances instead of block mitigation for a short duration.
- Significantly reduce the cost of mines from 5.4k down to 3.5k per cast to bring it more into line with other AoE damage skills now that it cannot trigger all mines at the same time on the same target and has a cooldown of 2 seconds per target while other AoE abilities are on the gcd of 1s, it is prohibitively expensive considering the heavy nerf it received.
- make negate work for all non-core-combat abilities, it's crazy how stamina specs can just run through a negate like it doesn't exist, meanwhile magicka specs just become sitting ducks while under it.
- if the pets don't get changed to only use 1 bar slot, then give overload back its third bar to allow for some much-needed bar slot flexibility.


Lastly, and this is more a buff to the magicka playstyle overall instead of uniquely to sorc.
- rework destro staff, make the passives work for all magicka/elemental abilities instead of only staff abilities and change it so that the staves buff their unique damage type fire/shock/frost instead of single target/aoe/nothing respectively and a slight buff to the shock clench/reach to bring them up to par with the flame/frost equivalents as well as give crushing shock a slight buff to damage (or make it always inflict off balance on enemies hit).
- rework/buff the light armor passives to bring them into line with medium armor for damage. This will naturally create a triangle meta where players will run light armor + destro staff to counter the heavy armor tanks that take more magic damage, then medium armor will become strong to counter light armor which takes more damage from physical, which would then in turn bring back heavy armor to counter the physical damage of medium armor users, and the cycle would repeat, similar to how it used to work.

Turtle_Bot

Dr_Con wrote: »

Caribou77 wrote: »

I respectfully disagree, Dr Con. Magsorc shouldn’t have to crutch on stealing kills with Endless Fury to be viable. Sure, you can play tactical and steal kills, but it’s not dynamic or fun, for me.

Just opinion, of course. People are free to enjoy the game as they wish.

@Caribou77

I feel you're misinterpreting how I play sorc. Sorcs excel in chipping away the hp of full hp targets more than anyone. Knowing when to estimate when an enemy's CC immunity is off CD, and streaking through them so you can benefit from the stun while you land a crystal fragment to their back to benefit from the backstabber CP is part of playing the class. Would I enjoy a free root like DK's have? Sure, but I don't feel I need to pin my targets down. We can straight up reposition and flank better than any class, but this class is not often not played this way. There are some things I don't like for sure, like how I have to slot a stam ability like camoflaged hunter or some select set choices together, but overall I enjoy the class thoroughly and am willing to deal with these minor inconveniences.

Alternatively a sorc can play on the sidelines and be killstealers like you imply, this would be the same sort of criticism that night blades get.

I am looking forward to the new mythic that will allow break free, sprint, roll dodge, etc to cost mana rather than stam and would strongly suggest withholding calls to action for buffs until some weeks after u36 happens. If we don't see meaningful differences, then I would be in support of some of the community proposed changes.

I'm looking forward to this mythic as well. It looks like a lot of fun and has some decent potential.

Tbh though and my main concern with this mythic is that as good as it sounds on paper for the class, it still feels like it's only a band aid solution. Sure, it allows for more efficient use of vigor + dark conversion for healing and sustain, but it will hinder the classes' ability to sustain any sort of pressure while maintaining the ability to avoid damage, which will be particularly punishing on a class that is as fragile as sorc is. It also takes up the coveted mythic slot removing the option for powerful mythics such as SSC for what could arguably be made into a generic mechanic within the game itself (core combat abilities use the higher resource of mag or stam).

Turtle_Bot

Caribou77 wrote: »

“Or you know, just play a good class

”

Totally agree Turtle. My MagSorc has been shelved for a couple months. Poor thing is relegated to inventory mule.

[/quote]

oof, yeah, my magsorc is my overall main, who I have still tried to make work this patch (with some small successes in no cp/no proc), but outside of running her there occasionally with friends, she is relegated to the crafting bench and pve (my pve main for a long time up until this patch was stamplar, zos really came after me with the U35 changes...).

acastanza_ESO

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I'm looking forward to this mythic as well. It looks like a lot of fun and has some decent potential.

Tbh though and my main concern with this mythic is that as good as it sounds on paper for the class, it still feels like it's only a band aid solution. Sure, it allows for more efficient use of vigor + dark conversion for healing and sustain, but it will hinder the classes' ability to sustain any sort of pressure while maintaining the ability to avoid damage, which will be particularly punishing on a class that is as fragile as sorc is. It also takes up the coveted mythic slot removing the option for powerful mythics such as SSC for what could arguably be made into a generic mechanic within the game itself (core combat abilities use the higher resource of mag or stam).

Exactly. Sure, it seems like an interesting mythic, but now at best Sorcs now have to use one particular mythic to make the class viable whereas every other class gets to use mythics that give actual buffs? And at worst a mythic that becomes a liability since now you're cannibalizing your offensive resource pool.
Don't get me wrong, I think the mythic could have a niche but this idea that it is "the fix" for Sorcerer is completely baseless. Besides we already have Death Dealer's that gives max resources which helps offensively with more magicka (for both more casts and extra damage albeit not great damage scaling) and defensively with more stamina for vigor. Seems like that might still be strictly better.

AdamLAD

Its a dangerous game buffing mag sorc, but I think it's required. I'm doing absolutely fine on mine. Still 1vXing and 2vXing. However in a duel it's horrendous. You can feel the huge raw power difference that everyone else has over you. Glad more of the fellow YouTube community is finally saying something. I get so much hate on my server for "sheild stacking" "Streak" as if they think we are back in 2017. Even on my YouTube you just get people who are so delusional to the fact it's down the pecking order and has been for a while. I have already stated in many posts on the forums expressing some changes to sorcerer. Hopefully the devs has took some notice

Magic Sorcerer main for 6 years on Xbox EU

PhoenixGrey

AdamLAD wrote: »

Its a dangerous game buffing mag sorc, but I think it's required. I'm doing absolutely fine on mine. Still 1vXing and 2vXing. However in a duel it's horrendous. You can feel the huge raw power difference that everyone else has over you. Glad more of the fellow YouTube community is finally saying something. I get so much hate on my server for "sheild stacking" "Streak" as if they think we are back in 2017. Even on my YouTube you just get people who are so delusional to the fact it's down the pecking order and has been for a while. I have already stated in many posts on the forums expressing some changes to sorcerer. Hopefully the devs has took some notice

Magic Sorcerer main for 6 years on Xbox EU

It's not a dangerous game. It's about playing the class in the first place and right now it's unplayable

AdamLAD

It's absolutely not unplayable. For me at least. Absolutely 100% playable. I have 1vXed, 2Vxed in every single patch since 2017. We both agree it's in a terrible state in comparison to other classes, the power difference between other classes and sorcerer is huge. But it's still easily playable if you are good enough at it. Many work arounds to make it somewhat viable. The reason I say it's a dangerous game is because it's hard to not make it absolutely broken. You start buffing a class that has range and insane movement it's going to be difficult to buff it without over buffing it.

Turtle_Bot

AdamLAD wrote: »

Its a dangerous game buffing mag sorc, but I think it's required. I'm doing absolutely fine on mine. Still 1vXing and 2vXing. However in a duel it's horrendous. You can feel the huge raw power difference that everyone else has over you. Glad more of the fellow YouTube community is finally saying something. I get so much hate on my server for "sheild stacking" "Streak" as if they think we are back in 2017. Even on my YouTube you just get people who are so delusional to the fact it's down the pecking order and has been for a while. I have already stated in many posts on the forums expressing some changes to sorcerer. Hopefully the devs has took some notice

Magic Sorcerer main for 6 years on Xbox EU

Agreed about all the hate that sorc players get and the haters typically being stuck in 2017 lol.

I will not mention any names as that's against the rules, but some have been going even as far as trying to abuse the forums rules by calling on the mods to shut down threads asking for buffs to sorcs and asking why there was nothing in U36 after getting essentially nothing in U35 and the devs said they were going to buff the class after the spreadsheets came back in week 3 of U35 pts that sorc was completely unplayable everywhere in the game (even in pve).

Magsorc main here for nearly 7 years myself, never seen a class in this bad a state before, even elsewyr nbs had something, especially with invisibility that had 100% DoT mitigation for some reason back then. I've also never seen a class be so targeted over the years to the point where a set was created specifically to counter the class (who remembers the original sloads that used to deal as much damage as U34 caluurions, but was an instant burst damage proc with no travel time (or it was at least made undodgeable), was oblivion proc damage that ignored shields, armor and all mitigation and it was craftable).

PhoenixGrey

AdamLAD wrote: »

It's absolutely not unplayable. For me at least. Absolutely 100% playable. I have 1vXed, 2Vxed in every single patch since 2017. We both agree it's in a terrible state in comparison to other classes, the power difference between other classes and sorcerer is huge. But it's still easily playable if you are good enough at it. Many work arounds to make it somewhat viable. The reason I say it's a dangerous game is because it's hard to not make it absolutely broken. You start buffing a class that has range and insane movement it's going to be difficult to buff it without over buffing it.

I am game for any buffs at this point. For me it's all about having fun with the time and $$ I put into this game.

Sure you can 1vx but the kind of 1vx you get in this class versus others is a bridge which you cannot cross without overbuffing the living hell out of it

Aces-High-82

Not much what I desire:
Reduce Streak fatigue to 25%.
Haunting Curse applies Major Breach for 9sec.
Fury applies Major Vulnerability for 5sec.
Pets are untargetable - at least no cast time.
Dark Exchange and morphs provide a true Value (not affected by Battlespirit) - at least no cast time.
Conjured Ward: not affected by Battlespirit - instead 4k max mag translates to 1k shield strength (Hardened 3.5:1).

Luede

BlackCatOnline- wrote: »

The other thing is I feel like sorc has got to have the easiest execute in the game. One button tap can destroy weakened opponents at range. Sometimes this results in kill stealing. Meanwhile the nightblade next to you might be struggling to land an executioner or killers blade as their target keeps circling just out of reach. Good thing we have spin2win right?

do you know what i think when a sorc uses this skill against me? "he wasted a slot", simply because in today's meta you can't get good players below 20% anyway and if you do, your execute hits so weak that you don't knock him out. Yes, a good skill against weak targets, if you are in the background and want to steal kills, otherwise a dmg spell is much better placed, because it also has a benefit against good players.

besides, it doesn't matter if you slot an execute against weak players, they will go down anyway.

and i say this from a mag sorc perspective

Bergzorn

I'm not much of a dueller, but I see where the complaints are coming from. Magsorc is a former S-tier PvP class that now, on a reasonable open world build, lacks burst and defense. It's still mobile, but so is nearly everyone else. But at least MagSorc is still an excellent zergsurfing class, with or without Fury.

As many here have said, the class is outdated. It doesn't synergize as well with the changes in the combat system and itemization as other classes do. It may need only tweaks or a full rework, I don't know. But I'm a bit scared of both, too often no patch notes have been good patch notes.

jaws343

My personal take on some changes I think would go along way to providing better tools and viability for sorcs, without making them too strong. This is from a non pet perspective.

Shields: Make them crit and remove the battle spirit penalty. Keep the health/mag scaling as is currently, but allow crit change and crit damage to effect crit chance of shield and size of shield after crit. This will allow players to still stack mag/health for shield strength, or allow them to build for crit (more burst damage here too) to get a larger shield.

Streak: Remove the stun, and replace it with a snare.

Rune Cage: Make it undodgeable again. But, remove the damage.

Crystal Frags: Remove the cast time. BUT, decrease the frag proc chance for SELF proc to 10%. Make it proc more on other skills than it does on itself. Allows for the base skill to be a better spammable, especially one that cannot be interrupted, while also reducing the self buff power of the skill with the proc.

Fury: Make the explosion of it undodgeable. The application should still be dodgeable. But once applied, it should not be able to be dodged. Increase the time it sticks to an opponent to 5 seconds, to open the burst window a bit better. And, have it provide a 5% damage increase from the player to targets over 50% health while it is active. This will help with the lack of scaling, while providing some front end burst to even get the target under 20%

Haunting Curse: Remove the double explosion. Make it a 9 second debuff of some sort. But, allow sorcs to reactivate the skill to cause the explosion within that 9 seconds. Taking the explosion off the timer makes the burst less predictable, removing the second explosion makes it less sustained power. But, you also get an option of just not using it for the burst damage and just using it for the debuff. Or, you activate the skill again on target and get that burst damage. Give it a 3 second or so cool down per target to prevent it being spammed. (This cooldown would make the explosion similar to the current initial one, where you have to wait the first 3 seconds to gain anything from the skill before recasting)