PTS Update 36 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

BretonMage

flizomica wrote: »

I really don't think U36 was the time to hold back on significant balance changes. Reading the patch notes, it was very painful to realize that the current combat balance is what we will have for the next 6 months, given the cadence of the update cycle. Please consider revisiting these pain points in the future:

1. Please fix some of the very negative consequences of the U35 changes, such as more complicated rotations due to very mismatched DoT/buff/debuff timers. I also really think we need to see significant efforts to buff the skill floor in ESO - in a perfect world, I think that should have been a consequence of U35 given the stated goals of the patch.

+1 to the entire post, but especially to this. Rotations are just painful right now, please fix them.

Mr_Stach

Going to drop some thoughts here as well.
I'm almost at a loss for words at these Warden Changes..... Almost.

Class Passives directly being tied to Specific Weapons is not something I completely agree with. Damage is king, while increasing Frost Damage for Warden is generally good, being pigeonholed to Frost Staff is not a great direction.

But who knows, maybe this will be better, I guess we'll see with how EXACTLY it's being changed.

Also while you're reworking Passives:

Icy Aura is basically useless in every stage.

Nature's Gift would be great if it procced on healing yourself and others instead of just others.

You should really add the Brittle status in words into the Destruction Staff Passives SOMEWHERE. Maybe just tack it in under Elemental Force which deals with status effects. So people know it's there without having to research it outside of the game.

This is what I said when the preview came out and it turns out it wasn't better. In fact, it barely does anything except make you "feel like you need to use Frost Staff" which is false, you still outdamage Frost Staff even with this passive.

I don't know what inspired these changes and honestly I don't care. ESO is supposed to be "play how you want" and right now I don't even want to try to do that. These changes don't make me want to play Warden because right now it's just a Hoop Simulator. I'm sick of jumping through hoops.

seahurzzz

Was there a change in the trial dummy that was not in the notes?

Firstmep

Backlash: the scaling coefficient for the final hit might have to be a little higher, as it currently way lower than on live.
I'm okay with making it a bit more difficult to reach max in pvp, but pve shouldn't be penalised for it.
Depending on stats it's currently a 15-20% nerf to the final damage, which is a little bit heavy handed.

I am not a warden expert but the new piercing cold while great for ice staves, is a bit restrictive for the class.
Changing warden skills that were magic to cold, and then making it increase cold damage would reach the same result without such restrictions.
Ice staff is the support/tank element for destro staves, and while I like the playstyle, more options are always better.

Just for reference dk skills were also changed recently to all fire damage from magic, i dunno why it cant be done for wardens as well.

Mr_Stach

Firstmep wrote: »

Backlash: the scaling coefficient for the final hit might have to be a little higher, as it currently way lower than on live.
I'm okay with making it a bit more difficult to reach max in pvp, but pve shouldn't be penalised for it.
Depending on stats it's currently a 15-20% nerf to the final damage, which is a little bit heavy handed.

I am not a warden expert but the new piercing cold while great for ice staves, is a bit restrictive for the class.
Changing warden skills that were magic to cold, and then making it increase cold damage would reach the same result without such restrictions.
Ice staff is the support/tank element for destro staves, and while I like the playstyle, more options are always better.

Just for reference dk skills were also changed recently to all fire damage from magic, i dunno why it cant be done for wardens as well.

I mean for Wardens that already ran Frost Builds it's a zero sum change since all of wardens mag skills are magicka and Frost and were getting the +10% anyways.

But it's a nerf when compared to running actual dps setups with Fire Staff or DW. It's just worse still. So it's a weird change that doesn't change anything except making it appear that you'll do more damage.... when you actually don't since Frost Staff passives suck

Jman100582

I don’t understand why backlash cap needs to be even HARDER to hit in pvp than it already is. Good luck being able to stay offensive for a whole six seconds straight in a pvp environment. I already rarely ever hit the cap damage unless my group is just steam rolling people and they have zero chance of fighting back, or unless I’m dueling. The ability is flawed mechanically as is. These changes do not help

Syndem

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

• My Templar's jabs is still not back to how it was before update 35.
• DKs still have a weird split cost spammable that is neither unique nor fun to use because it has the drawbacks of both without the advantages of either.
• Wardens were happier with a bonus to damage done rather than crit damage or pen.

As long as these issues aren't addressed Update 36 is already a failure in my book.

My exact thoughts.

Same here.

Most of all i miss my jabs animation and the damage i was doing (middle game player but progressing).
I feel like i pay the price for something i didn t do.

Narvuntien

Honestly, I am still completely lost from the U36 changes.
Am I supposed to be using dual wield and 2hander on my MagDK now?
I am in the awkward position where I want both Stamina regen and Magicka regen and HP food in order to get the most out of my weird hybrid spamming and not die. My DPS wasn't high, to begin with now it is 3 k lower.

And as others have mentioned MagDk used to have this really nice and smooth 10-second rotation but now everything has odd numbers.

I feel like if the damage was too high maybe you just needed to reduce damage rather than completely changing everything.

BloodyStigmata

I'm of the mind that the baseline damage boost for Piercing Cold should be something along the lines of 3%/6% and the bonus granted by wielding a frost staff be an additional effect that adds something along the lines of 6%/12% bonus damage to frost damage skills exclusively.

I appreciate that you're giving us cryomancers some much needed love, but the passive as it currently stands in week 1 of PTS seems to be pushing everyone towards frost staves with their wardens, when that's not what we want.

Adding an additional damage boost to frost damage skills while wielding a frost staff makes more sense than just giving every skill a 10% boost when wielding one and making it the clear winner in all scenarios.

Mr_Stach

BloodyStigmata wrote: »

I'm of the mind that the baseline damage boost for Piercing Cold should be something along the lines of 3%/6% and the bonus granted by wielding a frost staff be an additional effect that adds something along the lines of 6%/12% bonus damage to frost damage skills exclusively.

I appreciate that you're giving us cryomancers some much needed love, but the passive as it currently stands in week 1 of PTS seems to be pushing everyone towards frost staves with their wardens, when that's not what we want.

Adding an additional damage boost to frost damage skills while wielding a frost staff makes more sense than just giving every skill a 10% boost when wielding one and making it the clear winner in all scenarios.

Even with the Frost Staff change, frost staff does not give you the top DPS still. Here's some numbers from someone in our other post for Damage Totals:

Frost/Frost: 97k
Frost/Inferno: 98k
DW/Inferno: 103k
DW/Frost: 102k
DW/2h: 102k

DW/Inferno is still more powerful because of the bonuses the weapons provide. This change did not really alter what Frost Warden is capable of, it just makes you feel like you need to run Frost Staff, which is completely backwards from what Class Fantasy should be represented as.

WrathOfInnos

Iron_Warrior wrote: »

I've talked about this a lot in other threads, but want to give it another shot here.

Empowering grasp needs something. You've turned this skill from a great group utility ability to absolute trash in a single patch. If you are hell bent on giving a empower tool to heavy attack necro players then fine, keep it as it is but at least change the other morph so it would again become usefull for organized groups. My suggestion? Add minor heroism to the other morph so you can provide this buff to your group, fits the necro class too, because the class is good for generating ultimate. Might be op might be weak, not sure, haven't thought about it much but as i said this skill needs something.

Now let's talk about races. For a long time i've thought race balance is out of your sight but looks like it has changed. You've buffed khajiit which is one of better races, but didn't touch the races that actually need help like redguard or bosmer. How could you go through these races and think "yeah they are fine, let's buff khajiit!". I know khajiits are one of the most popular races but come on, i expect more from game devs...

I agree Empowering Grasp needs something new.

I disagree that Khajiit is "one of the better races", or that giving it 5 magicka/stamina recovery in exchange for 10 health recovery is even a buff. This will have zero effect on gameplay.

Khajiit is in a very bad spot in group PVE. The hard cap on crit damage means that their main damage passive is often negated entirely. It doesn't even take much, just Warhorn/Sax and Elemental Catalyst, which every group should have.

I still have a Khajiit Warden because I don't want to buy race change tokens for all my characters on this balance roller coaster, and it has been indirectly nerfed on PTS. Warden now gets an absurd 35% crit damage (10% passive, 15% from slotting 5 animal companion skills, 10% from Minor Brittle). Add to that the 12% from Khajiit and 12% from the 6 medium armor meta, as well as 15% from EC. That totals 124%, basically at the 125% crit damage cap without even using Minor Force (Barbed Trap) or Fighting Finesse/Backstabber (also a problem because most other blue slottables are weak). This means that Khajiit Warden gets nothing from Warhorn's Major Force, while every other race sees a DPS gain.

I was playing Bosmer stam sorc all last patch, and can say with certainty it is better than Khajiit in trials. Khajiit needs something else, maybe go back to crit chance if the crit damage cap is not going to be removed. That is not to say Bosmer is good, they could use a small buff too. Redguard is in a poor state and needs a rework.

WrathOfInnos

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Why was there no nerf to the Templar beam? It is insanely strong, way stronger than any other execute. Straight up melting people from 50% health. Completely not okay.

Templar beam does not get any bonus damage at 50% health. It is just as weak as casting it on a full health opponent.

When targets get down to lower health the strength of beam feels about right. The class doesn't have much else going for it, since Jabs, Dark Flare and Shards are all pretty weak as single target spammables. Vamp Bane and Solar Barrage are a joke now. They don't have any good class ultimates. Beam is the only thing keeping Templar relevant, along with Backlash and Javelin in PvP.

Iron_Warrior

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Iron_Warrior wrote: »

I've talked about this a lot in other threads, but want to give it another shot here.

Empowering grasp needs something. You've turned this skill from a great group utility ability to absolute trash in a single patch. If you are hell bent on giving a empower tool to heavy attack necro players then fine, keep it as it is but at least change the other morph so it would again become usefull for organized groups. My suggestion? Add minor heroism to the other morph so you can provide this buff to your group, fits the necro class too, because the class is good for generating ultimate. Might be op might be weak, not sure, haven't thought about it much but as i said this skill needs something.

Now let's talk about races. For a long time i've thought race balance is out of your sight but looks like it has changed. You've buffed khajiit which is one of better races, but didn't touch the races that actually need help like redguard or bosmer. How could you go through these races and think "yeah they are fine, let's buff khajiit!". I know khajiits are one of the most popular races but come on, i expect more from game devs...

I agree Empowering Grasp needs something new.

I disagree that Khajiit is "one of the better races", or that giving it 5 magicka/stamina recovery in exchange for 10 health recovery is even a buff. This will have zero effect on gameplay.

Khajiit is in a very bad spot in group PVE. The hard cap on crit damage means that their main damage passive is often negated entirely. It doesn't even take much, just Warhorn/Sax and Elemental Catalyst, which every group should have.

I still have a Khajiit Warden because I don't want to buy race change tokens for all my characters on this balance roller coaster, and it has been indirectly nerfed on PTS. Warden now gets an absurd 35% crit damage (10% passive, 15% from slotting 5 animal companion skills, 10% from Minor Brittle). Add to that the 12% from Khajiit and 12% from the 6 medium armor meta, as well as 15% from EC. That totals 124%, basically at the 125% crit damage cap without even using Minor Force (Barbed Trap) or Fighting Finesse/Backstabber (also a problem because most other blue slottables are weak). This means that Khajiit Warden gets nothing from Warhorn's Major Force, while every other race sees a DPS gain.

I was playing Bosmer stam sorc all last patch, and can say with certainty it is better than Khajiit in trials. Khajiit needs something else, maybe go back to crit chance if the crit damage cap is not going to be removed. That is not to say Bosmer is good, they could use a small buff too. Redguard is in a poor state and needs a rework.

Fair points, khajiits much like redguards were the victim of indirect changes and ZoS not seeing the bigger picture while making these changes. I hate the current state of the racial balance and how we have clear winners and losers. I wish someday ZoS either do a complete rebalance or seperate the racial skills and races so people can play as whatever they want without feeling they are at a disadvantage

PrimusTiberius

I can echo many of the comments and feelings about the new changes on the Warden class but why beat a dead horse. I used to main with my Magden but it's getting mothballed until the Dev's decide they went the wrong direction with the class. I'm not a big fan of the Templar or Dragonknight....so maybe I'll go grudgingly back to my mag-sorcerer

Frustrating really

BasP

I too really hope the changes to the Warden's passives on the PTS will be changed somewhat.

If we take Luca Cash's parses on YouTube from U35 as a baseline, the average DPS of all builds is 124.5K while the Stamina Warden and Magicka Warden do 118k and 117k DPS (respectively 5% and 6% below average).

For a Stamina Warden, it doesn't seem like the proposed damage increase of 1/2% from Piercing Cold will bridge this gap, especially when taking into account that the build from the parse used three skills that were previously buffed by 10% (such as Deep Fissure). Besides that, the DPS numbers from the PTS mentioned in this thread also demonstrate that wielding two Frost Staffs is still suboptimal even on a Magicka Warden.

Hence a damage increase of 3/6% from Piercing Cold, as previously mentioned, doesn't seem too extreme to me. I'd also be fine with adding an additional buff when wielding a Frost Staff on top of that, or something like an additional damage bonus to frost damage or to chilled enemies so that every Warden build benefits from the class's passive evenly. And lastly, as others have also said, changing the Advanced Species passive from increased Critical Damage to Critical Chance per Animal Companion ability slotted would also be a good change for all Warden builds.

MurkyWetWolf198

Hello Gina and other ZOS representatives.
As a player, I would like for all of my guildmates to be able to enjoy their character mains. I sincerely wish that everyone of them is able to get on ESO and run around doing whatever on a build of their own choosing. However, many of them feel like they can't do that anymore.
Despite ZOS's stated goal of increasing build diversity, player consensus is that, within the current patch, most builds are still very outclassed and rough to play. They hit like wet noodles, and heal like broken stereos. This is disappointing, as I think both the developers and the general ESO community would like the ability to try different set-ups without feeling worse-off for it.
So, in order to fix this, the game does need a few changes.
First, let's address the player base who arguably feel the worst right; Templar and Sorcerer players. All three of these classes are outperformed by Nightblades, Dragonknights and Necromancers by a wide margin. Why? Well, let's look at their differences.
Both Nightblades and Dragonknights have a very unique relationship with one of their primary spammables that no other class has. For Nightblades, Concealed weapon interacts with Twisting Path to give players a 10% damage boost, which feels very welcome after the significant loss in damage last patch. For Dragonknights, Molten Whip increases their Weapon and Spell Damage every time they cast an Ardent Flame ability. In both cases, their primary spammable has a unique synergy with another part of the classes toolkit that makes it feel more powerful and helps give the class some identity.
On the other hand, let's look at Sorcerers and Templars. Previously, they had unique class synergies that made them standout: For Sorcerers it was both morphs of Crystal Shard having unique effetcs and for Templars it was the interaction of Puncturing Strikes and the Burning Light Passive. However, while Crystal Fragments seems to be mostly unchanged recently, Crystal Weapon's power was significantly reduced in Update 35. Furthermore, Burning Light's synergy is no longer relegated to the classes primary spammable. Consequently, Crystal Weapon and Puncturing Strikes feel very weak, and players who use them say that they'd rather just play another class. That's not good.
In order to help the Templar mains and Sorcerer Mains, they should be given access to a unique class synergy like Nightblades and Dragonknights. But what synergy? Well, here are a few ideas:
For Templars, while an enemy is under the effect of Sun Flare or it's morphs, Puncturing Strikes could do ramping damage every hit. To elaborate, this would temporarily let Puncturing Strikes have a similar, but stronger, effect to the skill Rapid Strikes from the Dual Wield skill line. Each subsequent hit of the move would do an increasing amount of damage, perhaps 10% or so, leaving the final hit at somewhere around a 40% increase. This would make using both skills feel very rewarding and help the class gain some footing against Nightblades, Dragonknights and Necromancers.
For Sorcerers, my idea is as follows: give Crystal Weapon a 10%-20% damage boost when no pets are active, or let it increase damage done by 5%-10% when used if no pets are active. This idea tries to solve two problems; it incentives usage of both Crystal Weapon and incentives our SOLO Sorcerer players. After reading many of my fellow players comments, there seems to be a large demographic of the Sorcerer playerbase who would like the ability to not use Daedric Pets without significant damage loss. Currently, there is no way to do this, meaning our SOLO Sorcerers can't play the way they want. Changing Crystal Weapon in this way would allow them their playstyle while not lowering the rest of Sorcerer's viability.
Overall, I would like all classes to feel like they are fun to play and bring something unique to the battlefield, and these were my ideas on how to do it. Then, maybe my guildmates will be able to return to their mains and feel at home. I hope you consider my ideas.
-Murky

chessalavakia_ESO

Piercing Cold:

From a number's perspective this change doesn't really matter that much to me.

My Frost Staff Warden will do 10% extra damage on a few skills.

My non-frost and non-magical Warden will do 2% extra damage.

If I still had my other Warden it'd be taking an 8% hit on a few of it's abilities and a 2% gain on a few others.

For the content I do, none of that will really be game breaking.

From a feelings perspective, the change kinda stinks.

It's not fun to go into a patch and deal 8% less damage with some abilities because after years of functioning one way a passive changes to only work with a specific weapon that you aren't using instead of a specific damage types.

Long term impact wise, the change might have unintended results.

Generally, before I make a character in a class I look through the skills. Having a class be aligned that strongly with a specific weapon is a turn off if you don't intend to use that item.

Piercing Cold has made it so I use more Magic/Frost damage abilities on some of my Wardens at times. While this does put a damper on some of my Warden skills that don't follow that damage types getting the bonus it also makes some of my Warden skills more appealing than non-class skills. In the long run, it might lead to less Warden skill use.

I think it would be cleaner to instead try to make the Frost Staves more viable for the min-maxers by slightly nerfing some of the competition as the competition appears to be not just beating out Frost Staves. With that said, I'd recommend being careful about it as nerfs are a bit annoying and many of the min-maxers simply are not going to have a happy ending. At the end of the day, it's likely that a small number of builds will reign supreme and unless the min-maxers want to use the reigning builds they will be complaining.

Caribou77

Piercing Cold: This passive now increases your damage done by 1/2% which increases to 5/10% while wielding an Ice Staff, rather than increasing your Magic and Frost Damage by 5/10%.


THIS IS A HARD NERF TO MAGICKA WARDENS.

THIS NEGATES 10% MAGICKA DAMAGE FROM EVERY SINGLE ANIMAL COMPANION/OFFENSIVE SKILL MAGICKA WARDEN HAS.

MAGICKA WARDEN IS WIDELY ACKNOWLEDGED AS THE WEAKEST, BOTTOM-TIER CLASS IN PVP, AND WITH U35 NERFING THE ADVANCED SPECIES PASSIVE DAMAGE, NOW ALSO IN PVE.

WHY ON EARTH DO YOU KEEP MAKING MAGICKA WARDEN A WORSE CLASS?

THIS IS NOT A RHETORICAL QUESTION.

AS MR_STACH CLEARY SHOWED ABOVE, FROST STAFF WILL STILL BE INFERIOR TO RUNNING AN INFERNO STAFF, YET MAGICKA WARDEN WILL NOW BE REQUIRED TO USE A LESS EFFECTIVE WEAPON TO GET THE BONUS THEY ALREADY HAVE!

Frost/Frost: 97k
Frost/Inferno: 98k
DW/Inferno: 103k
DW/Frost: 102k
DW/2h: 102k


DOES ANYONE ON THE DEV TEAM EVER PLAY MAGICKA WARDEN???

I AM 100% SINCERELY CURIOUS AND WOULD LOVE AN ANSWER TO THIS.

Panachudo

This passive is currently creating issues with 1 - morph choices in the class, as Wardens have a healthy 2 - mix of damage types outside of2 - Magic and Frost. Many morphs that are meant to focus on damage are either close to or even eclipsed by the more utility driven morphs that retain Magic Damage, and the lack of more 3 - DPS focused Ice Damage abilities (since they are predominantly made for tanks or utility) create a situation where this passive isn’t helping the unique identity of Ice Mages keep up with other play styles. By shifting the focus of the passive over to generic damage that contextually gets stronger for the audience the passive is made for, we hope to help bring that playstyle up a bit more.

My two cents as a Warden main;

1. This is where the struggle lies. There is a lack of consistency between the morph choice.
2. It is in the damage type where the Warden will benefit from a DPS boost. Currently there is a mix of damage types with the Warden skills.
   1. Lets take a look at the damage types across the primary DPS skill line, Animal Companions.
      1. Dive - Magic Damage
      2. Cutting Dive - Bleed Damage
      3. Screaming Cliff Racer - Magic Damage
      4. Scorch - Magic Damage
      5. Subterranean Assault - Poison Damage
      6. Deep Fissure - Magic Damage
      7. Feral Guardian - Magic Damage
      8. Eternal Guardian - Magic Damage
      9. Wild Guardian - Bleed Damage
      10. This equals:
          1. Magic Damage x 6
          2. Bleed Damage x 2
          3. Poison Damage x 1
   2. If we add the Winters Embrace skill line damage skills to the mix we see the following:
      1. Frost Damage x 3
   3. This leaves us with a total of 4 different damage types. The predominant type of damage is the Magic Damage type. The morphs need to tie into an identity for the class. To do this an overhaul of the skill tree needs to occur. Magicka morphs need to attend to the frost damage type. Stamina morphs need to attend to a bleed damage type. Incidentally this is little work on the back end. A texture overhaul for the frost damage morphs will more than suffice. Aka, make 'em blue. the stamina morphs need nothing more than a damage type change. The Winters Embrace Piercing Cold passive needs to Increase Frost Damage by 10% and drop the Magic Damage type. Advanced Species passive needs to return to % damage per ability slotted. Both of these passives a no different to other class passives. Think Sorc damage increase per Storm Calling ability slotted and their Energized passive to increase Physical and Shock Damage.
3. It isn't in the equipping of the ice staff to increase ice damage where the change needs to occur. If we rely on the method of weapon type it further complicates the accessibility of damage output. It is in the above that the direction of the Warden identity can be established. Magicka builds are frozen experts, and Stamina builds are bleed experts. This method would also increase the effectiveness of certain CP slottables.

virtus753

Please stop nerfing stamplars, especially while not being honest about the impact of the changes you're making. A 14% loss to our last stamina class dps skill worth mentioning is not "the same damage as on live." If you got your math wrong, redo it. If you saw the math but thought a 14%+ loss wasn't worth acknowledging, reconsider what "communication" looks like.

Stamplars have already lost their entire class identity to magplars with hybridization. We don't need further performance losses on top of that. We've been trying to tell you how badly off they are for over ten weeks now due to overnerfs (Jabs, Burning Light, Ritual) and failure to acknowledge failed design in the context of actual content (Ritual). The only "acknowledgment" has been yet another significant nerf to a class skill which you claim isn't a nerf at all. Please seriously consider how all that comes across to players who want to support your game but are having an enormously hard time justifying that right now.

ESO_Nightingale

Panachudo wrote: »

This passive is currently creating issues with 1 - morph choices in the class, as Wardens have a healthy 2 - mix of damage types outside of2 - Magic and Frost. Many morphs that are meant to focus on damage are either close to or even eclipsed by the more utility driven morphs that retain Magic Damage, and the lack of more 3 - DPS focused Ice Damage abilities (since they are predominantly made for tanks or utility) create a situation where this passive isn’t helping the unique identity of Ice Mages keep up with other play styles. By shifting the focus of the passive over to generic damage that contextually gets stronger for the audience the passive is made for, we hope to help bring that playstyle up a bit more.

My two cents as a Warden main;

1. This is where the struggle lies. There is a lack of consistency between the morph choice.
2. It is in the damage type where the Warden will benefit from a DPS boost. Currently there is a mix of damage types with the Warden skills.
   1. Lets take a look at the damage types across the primary DPS skill line, Animal Companions.
      1. Dive - Magic Damage
      2. Cutting Dive - Bleed Damage
      3. Screaming Cliff Racer - Magic Damage
      4. Scorch - Magic Damage
      5. Subterranean Assault - Poison Damage
      6. Deep Fissure - Magic Damage
      7. Feral Guardian - Magic Damage
      8. Eternal Guardian - Magic Damage
      9. Wild Guardian - Bleed Damage
      10. This equals:
          1. Magic Damage x 6
          2. Bleed Damage x 2
          3. Poison Damage x 1
   2. If we add the Winters Embrace skill line damage skills to the mix we see the following:
      1. Frost Damage x 3
   3. This leaves us with a total of 4 different damage types. The predominant type of damage is the Magic Damage type. The morphs need to tie into an identity for the class. To do this an overhaul of the skill tree needs to occur. Magicka morphs need to attend to the frost damage type. Stamina morphs need to attend to a bleed damage type. Incidentally this is little work on the back end. A texture overhaul for the frost damage morphs will more than suffice. Aka, make 'em blue. the stamina morphs need nothing more than a damage type change. The Winters Embrace Piercing Cold passive needs to Increase Frost Damage by 10% and drop the Magic Damage type. Advanced Species passive needs to return to % damage per ability slotted. Both of these passives a no different to other class passives. Think Sorc damage increase per Storm Calling ability slotted and their Energized passive to increase Physical and Shock Damage.
3. It isn't in the equipping of the ice staff to increase ice damage where the change needs to occur. If we rely on the method of weapon type it further complicates the accessibility of damage output. It is in the above that the direction of the Warden identity can be established. Magicka builds are frozen experts, and Stamina builds are bleed experts. This method would also increase the effectiveness of certain CP slottables.

huge agree on this front.

xylena_lazarow

Outside the squishies who die to everything, PvP combat in u35 is basically tanks running in circles healing at each other until someone randomly drops dead to a lucky burst, and u36 does nothing to change this, if anything making it far worse by adding things like the Faun mythic. I will not be playing or spending any money under these dull stagnant "tank meta" PvP conditions, wake me up when the devs decide they want PvP players to be able to pressure down health bars and actually go for the win, not just stall out fights until their opponents leave out of boredom.

nokturnihs

Warden changes are stupid.

Occult Overload Changes make it USELESS. You get better economy just going with something else if this sticks. I'm super tired of ZOS making nerfs to add grind and TEDIUM to the game. If OO is broken in PvP - fix PvP - something as simple as "In PvP this damage is halved" or something to that effect.

I know there's no point in pushing this because it makes too much sense but balancing ALL content across PvE and PvP always leaves people feeling bad on both sides. I play PvE mainly and this game has become a snooze fest because of all the nerfs making it tedious to go around and quest or do basic normal content (which is what I prefer).

I lost about half my DPS on most my toons with U35. Now the toons relying on burst DPS against trash mobs in PvE are gonna see even larger drops.

Proposed solutions:

1) In PvE drop ALL Mob/enemy health by 30%. It shouldn't take more than 1 or 2 hits from an un-optimized new player using something like a light attack or a spammable to take out an overland mob. That's currently not the case, requiring several hits from an OPTIMIZED build in most cases (especially after the "Where Fun Goes to Die" U35 patch)

2) Balance PvP against PvE by having alternate effects/adjusted stats in sets and skills. You could just use a tag system that anything that is overpowered/broken in PvP has reduced effectiveness, allowing you to easily patch/balance tons of abilities, sets, etc without re-tooling each set and ability. It also makes it easier to adjust in the future. You're not EVER gonna solve certain classes being definitively broken in PvP unless you completely re-tool them but... you'd stop pissing off the PvE crowd every time you break our stuff.

3) Maybe I should just stop paying for ESO+ or quit the game entirely? While some of the QoL changes aren't terrible, there's a definitive shift of development employing the same mechanics as mobile/gatcha games, F2P mentality to keep people grinding away and maybe spending more time in game to increase the chances of microtransactions, and part of that is NERF AFTER NERF AFTER NERF. It's a PAY TO PLAY game. Those tactics aren't necessary. If this is the direction ZOS is taking the game, maybe it's time to try something else? I'll discuss it with my guild - maybe we ALL need to go find a new game together?

Either way ZOS - you're not winning many friends here....

fizl101

virtus753 wrote: »

Please stop nerfing stamplars, especially while not being honest about the impact of the changes you're making. A 14% loss to our last stamina class dps skill worth mentioning is not "the same damage as on live." If you got your math wrong, redo it. If you saw the math but thought a 14%+ loss wasn't worth acknowledging, reconsider what "communication" looks like.

Stamplars have already lost their entire class identity to magplars with hybridization. We don't need further performance losses on top of that. We've been trying to tell you how badly off they are for over ten weeks now due to overnerfs (Jabs, Burning Light, Ritual) and failure to acknowledge failed design in the context of actual content (Ritual). The only "acknowledgment" has been yet another significant nerf to a class skill which you claim isn't a nerf at all. Please seriously consider how all that comes across to players who want to support your game but are having an enormously hard time justifying that right now.

Quoting to show hard agreement. There are still a few of us trying to keep the class alive in pve, but its getting harder and harder

Foxtrot39

I am once again asking for a rework of consuming darkness, its been worthless for about 4 years already

Yiko

Templar Feedback

• The final damage deals approximately 10% more damage than the initial hit at base and increases up to an additional 200% to reach similar values of power seen before.
• The final damage now takes more overall damage to reach, to make the payout less reliably reached in PvP scenarios.

Live


PTS


Live damage cap: 27945
PTS damage cap: 6996*3= 20988
Difference in damage cap: 6957
Percentage decrease in damage cap: 6957/27945= 24.9%


In what world does a 24.9% decrease to an ability's most integral feature "reach similar values of power seen before?" Not only that, but it's going to require more damage/effort to reach the damage cap ON TOP of that significant damage nerf?
On a class that just got nerfed in terms of Jabs' damage and functionality (including the snare)? Burning Light nerfed by around 33% damage while also essentially halving how frequently it can proc? Am I getting this all right, or am I mistaken? Because this doesn't make any sense to me. What kind of design decision is this? This absolutely needs to be re-evaluated. If you're going to make the damage cap harder to reach, then don't nerf the damage cap. As far as I'm concerned, this is just raising the skill floor for the ability while lowering the burst potential and making it harder to reach when it seems like the intention of the developers was to have it perform similarly to how it historically has on the high end with a little extra added difficulty/effort. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.



Also, for what it's worth, I agree that these Warden changes aimed at buffing magden are missing their mark, especially the one buffing Frost Staff damage, for reasons already stated in this thread.

DrNukenstein

Faun's Lark: What happens if you sprint into someone using it while you have vamp 4 invisibility? *edit: just read the last sentence. Breaks stealth.

Stormweavers Cavort: do any other Mythics give stats on their own and is this the one to start that precedent on? How are the break free, roll, etc costs affected by armor passives?

I could see a light armor bias with well fitted making rolls almost free

BahometZ

u36 just feels like another rotation in the merry-go-round.

It is nice to see POTL/Purifying Light finally getting the hybrid achievement several patches later, but making it one at a time is clearly a nerf in its utilisation, along with nerfs to jabs, burning light, when templar hasn't been near the top in PvE ever since you nerfed vampire toggle. For what purpose? To pull it back in PvP. Why after so many years are devs unable to balance PvE and PvP separately? Who are they listening to on PvP changes, because removing class burst amidst a tank meta is just ingraining the tedious, low kill-time combat that turns people away.

What is the final destination according to the devs? What is the road map? I understand balance is an ongoing process, but upturning the apple-cart just to give yourself some apples to pick-up and look busy is not the way.

Hybridisation has ironically reduced build diversity by removing the mag/stam comp dichotomy. Why pick a weak mag morph when the stam morph is stronger and cheaper, or vice versa in the case of a mag morph that provides an increase in damage scaling. And hybridisation still hasn't been fulfilled. u35 was meant to make the game more accessible, but I haven't seen anyone crow about conquering hitherto unmet challenges, or new content previously beyond them. What I have seen is less teams pushing hard content, and lower scores across the board. And nerfs to new content that was delivered too difficult for most. And I still see the same poorly performing players in dungeons, who have paid as much attention to changes as they ever have, ignorant of anything the devs have done to make their lives easier.

Warden being tied to ice staff is a dangerous and unwelcome precedent. We already got rid of passives that tied characters to damage types years ago, why would we do that again with weapon types? Or is class/weapon combos going to be next big balance sweep that gets dropped mid-way through?

I'll give praise when it's due...

Klingenlied

Panachudo wrote: »

1. It isn't in the equipping of the ice staff to increase ice damage where the change needs to occur. If we rely on the method of weapon type it further complicates the accessibility of damage output. It is in the above that the direction of the Warden identity can be established. Magicka builds are frozen experts, and Stamina builds are bleed experts. This method would also increase the effectiveness of certain CP slottables.

Kinda. I like that they try to put it in there. And, with 8% extra damage with Ice Staff equipped, they obviously kinda nailed it - it is not 100% on par with flame, but close enough to be viable.

Still, Warden right now needs way higher boosts to be up on par once again.

Panachudo

Klingenlied wrote: »

Panachudo wrote: »

1. It isn't in the equipping of the ice staff to increase ice damage where the change needs to occur. If we rely on the method of weapon type it further complicates the accessibility of damage output. It is in the above that the direction of the Warden identity can be established. Magicka builds are frozen experts, and Stamina builds are bleed experts. This method would also increase the effectiveness of certain CP slottables.

Kinda. I like that they try to put it in there. And, with 8% extra damage with Ice Staff equipped, they obviously kinda nailed it - it is not 100% on par with flame, but close enough to be viable.

Still, Warden right now needs way higher boosts to be up on par once again.

I agree with you to a point. Given the class identities established with other classes it would be beneficial to capitalize on the opportunity. I'd hazard a guess at this method being a stab at an easier upgrade to the DPS given the fundamental use of an Ice Staff for tanks. Would guess that underlying piece is difficult to code differently. Tying it to a class passive in that scenario makes sense. I dunno. Just guessing.