Mac Client Crashes Frequently

_subjectnamehere_

Gajalu wrote: »

I was just scratching my head, asking myself if I should give ESO another chance since I did not extend my subscription (didn't even play the whole 30 days). Wanted to take a look if anything has been fixed because I was really looking forward to finally play PvP on my Mac.

Thank you Kuiper for your post. Looks like nothing has changed and there is absolutely no reason to re-sub. I'll see myself out. I love the ESO universe but releasing a half finished game really killed the experience for me.

What's left now? Waiting until the next new MMO with Mac client gets released (and hope for it to be better than this ESO disaster).

ESO is NOT a disaster. It is, in my opinion, quite successful. It's all how you look at the game and what you expect. To me, personally, they did a fine job with this game. I am only level 33 because I am taking my time to enjoy the scenery, lore, stories, quest dialogues, and exploration.

I play quite a bit, too, and I am a patient player. I have no reason to rush through content just to get to VR10. Who cares if I am behind? I am enjoying the game the way I want to, and so is everyone else.

So to call it a "disaster" is simply an opinion. We respect that.

As far as the Mac Client crashes...they have been improved. I can play on high settings now and experience the same number of crashes I was getting on medium settings...once about every 4-5 hours. That's not too bad.

I know Zenimax is working on it, and I am not going to quit playing the game simply because it isn't fixed yet. They are human beings just like us...give them time, be patient, and I am confident they will patch a solution for us Mac gamers in due time.

_subjectnamehere_

Mac Client
General

Fixed an issue for a graphics-related memory leak.
Fixed an issue for an animation-related memory leak.

WOOOOOOO! Let's see what happens.

Rhynchelma

"In due time" has a hollow ring to it when one segment of their users has a severely, in my opinion, restricted ability to enjoy the game.

When standing next to a banker can and does lead to a crash, while associating with groups hastens the inevitable crash...

When the crashes increase in severity to bypass Zenimax's crash reporter...

Zenimax did not market the game "for PC and in a sort of way for the Mac too." They sold it as a PC and Mac game but it's not.

"Real soon now", I seem to have heard that before, "In due time" sounds worse.

The crash rate may have improved for some, but not for others. Saying yours have improved does not mean that the same improvement has been seen by others.

Calling it a "disaster" is more than an opinion, it's what many have experienced.

Moonraker

Rhynchelma wrote: »

When standing next to a banker can and does lead to a crash, while associating with groups hastens the inevitable crash...

That will happen because of the activity you have already done. its just close to the limit and activity in crowded place as client loads in new players data etc. takes it over limit. Just look through the previous crash reports to see when it does this. Or use a way shrine etc. which loads new data and does the same.
The actualy TTC is not different. Only more frequent in crowded location.

When the crashes increase in severity to bypass Zenimax's crash reporter...

For you. I still get the ZOSCrashReporter most of the time. Occasionally it drops to the Apple one. I has nothing to do with the issue only how it may or may not catch the crash (lag for example delaying data could impact that)

The crash rate may have improved for some, but not for others. Saying yours have improved does not mean that the same improvement has been seen by others.

The memory fixes that have gone into the Mac client will improve the memory crash for all clients. It's not individual changes. The difference can be more or less noticeable depending on what set up you have, server population, server issues, client settings etc. Those are all variables. And then personal perception.

If you get some ZOS crash report summaries post them here and we can check them is the most reliable way.

Calling it a "disaster" is more than an opinion, it's what many have experienced.

Not sure how you equate 'many'? From forum? which is a tiny percentage of actual users and nearly always those with issues and why the visit. For as many here they accept that it is not ideal and needs resolving but that it is acceptable for the player now.

Given that others, including myself have played many hours of ESO now via a native Mac client it is hardly a disaster. It is frustrating and of course personally to those that want to PvP it is more of an issue as it is more impactful there. Making sweeping statements just undermines your statement.

Bottom line the Mac client has an issue (as do many individual aspects of a new MMO game) which is being worked on and hopefully over time it will improve and get fixed. For some it is not acceptable, for others it is and they are willing to be patient to be able to play the game on a Mac client which otherwise works really well.

Rhynchelma

Moonraker wrote: »

Rhynchelma wrote: »

When standing next to a banker can and does lead to a crash, while associating with groups hastens the inevitable crash...

That will happen because of the activity you have already done. its just close to the limit and activity in crowded place as client loads in new players data etc. takes it over limit. Just look through the previous crash reports to see when it does this. Or use a way shrine etc. which loads new data and does the same.
The actualy TTC is not different. Only more frequent in crowded location.

No, it happens when a bank alt logs on and stands by the Vulkhel Guard banker for a relatively short time.

Moonraker wrote: »

Rhynchelma wrote: »

When the crashes increase in severity to bypass Zenimax's crash reporter...

For you. I still get the ZOSCrashReporter most of the time. Occasionally it drops to the Apple one. I has nothing to do with the issue only how it may or may not catch the crash (lag for example delaying data could impact that)

Okay.

Moonraker wrote: »

Rhynchelma wrote: »

The crash rate may have improved for some, but not for others. Saying yours have improved does not mean that the same improvement has been seen by others.

The memory fixes that have gone into the Mac client will improve the memory crash for all clients. It's not individual changes. The difference can be more or less noticeable depending on what set up you have, server population, server issues, client settings etc. Those are all variables. And then personal perception.
If you get some ZOS crash report summaries post them here and we can check them is the most reliable way.

We'll see if that results in game play improvements, hopefully.

Doesn't the crash reporter go direct to Zenimax? If so, what's the function of posting it here.

Moonraker wrote: »

Rhynchelma wrote: »

Calling it a "disaster" is more than an opinion, it's what many have experienced.

Not sure how you equate 'many'? From forum? which is a tiny percentage of actual users and nearly always those with issues and why the visit. For as many here they accept that it is not ideal and needs resolving but that it is acceptable for the player now.

Given that others, including myself have played many hours of ESO now via a native Mac client it is hardly a disaster. It is frustrating and of course personally to those that want to PvP it is more of an issue as it is more impactful there. Making sweeping statements just undermines your statement.

Bottom line the Mac client has an issue (as do many individual aspects of a new MMO game) which is being worked on and hopefully over time it will improve and get fixed. For some it is not acceptable, for others it is and they are willing to be patient to be able to play the game on a Mac client which otherwise works really well.

"Many" is, of course, a personal estimate based on the Mac-users that I personally know and who have subscribed to the game. Without Zenimax's subscriber numbers, it is a personal opinion.

It's fairly well accepted that only a minority, pro or con, go to forums, still less write anything there. Maybe that proportion is increasing but forums are not the best way to get balanced views - on either side. And don't ask me to quote my source for the forum visiting comment, it's late here...

And my bottom line is that I will continue to play the game. Although the Mac problem is irritating, it's not the end of the world. There are far worse irritations in the general game, bots etc, than the idiosyncrasies of the Mac client. Activity monitor is my friend...

viktorcodeneb18_ESO

Moonraker wrote: »

@dmharms The memory crash will just 'crash' with no warning though you can monitor memory use in Activity Monitor and reboot game when it gets close to 2.7GB Real Memory or 3.7GB Virtual Memory will avoid it happening when fighting etc.

Actually, we all saw two obvious memory crashes with different reporters:
1. Built-in reporter with lots of in-game info and two memory values: peak and current. If they are the same and close to 2.7 GB then it was out of memory crash.
2. Standard Apple’s crash report with top line saying “std::bad_alloc” which indicates failed attempt to allocate more memory. A clear indicator in this case.

Moonraker

viktorcodeneb18_ESO wrote: »

Moonraker wrote: »

@dmharms The memory crash will just 'crash' with no warning though you can monitor memory use in Activity Monitor and reboot game when it gets close to 2.7GB Real Memory or 3.7GB Virtual Memory will avoid it happening when fighting etc.

Actually, we all saw two obvious memory crashes with different reporters:
1. Built-in reporter with lots of in-game info and two memory values: peak and current. If they are the same and close to 2.7 GB then it was out of memory crash.
2. Standard Apple’s crash report with top line saying “std::bad_alloc” which indicates failed attempt to allocate more memory. A clear indicator in this case.

The point of the quoted text was that there is usually no indication a memory crash is about to happen. The process just crashes out.

The memory issue appears to be the same, it's just whether the ZOSCrashReporter catches it, or it goes to the Apple default crash report. There was an issue in beta where it was not working and always going to Apple crash report. Usually it will but sometimes not.

Seedier

I'm seeing crashes with increasing frequency, and frequent 'freezes' for 10-20 secs, which not infrequently lead to player death. I'm on an older machine, but whereas i used to crash every 1-2 hours, now it's crashing 3-4 times an hour. Not to mention dying in the stupidest of circumstances because my screen freezes up while mobs feel free to keep bashing on me. And i too never see the ZOS crash reporter any more.

It's now reached the point where it simply isn't fun. I really like the game but i refuse to use the Windows client in bootcamp. I spent a lot of money for a game that was advertised as a mac native game (and yes, i'm within the advertised minimum specs) and expected to get just that.

Mac gaming is so deprived that we mac users consider this OK. A PC game crashing this frequently would have been fed to the dogs within a week.

Moonraker

Seedier wrote: »

I'm seeing crashes with increasing frequency, and frequent 'freezes' for 10-20 secs, which not infrequently lead to player death. I'm on an older machine, but whereas i used to crash every 1-2 hours, now it's crashing 3-4 times an hour. Not to mention dying in the stupidest of circumstances because my screen freezes up while mobs feel free to keep bashing on me. And i too never see the ZOS crash reporter any more.

It's now reached the point where it simply isn't fun. I really like the game but i refuse to use the Windows client in bootcamp. I spent a lot of money for a game that was advertised as a mac native game (and yes, i'm within the advertised minimum specs) and expected to get just that.

Mac gaming is so deprived that we mac users consider this OK. A PC game crashing this frequently would have been fed to the dogs within a week.

As I posted in the other thread, if you can post system details etc.. then it gives a better chance to offer some suggestions or advice.

Your Mac should not be crashing that often unless you are in PvP. It is one symptom of graphics card issues or heat problem but without more details it's hard to know.

There are a lot of factors in this game that can cause issues. Fixes applied to improve memory leaks, which have generally improved things for the majority of posters, is not likely to be one.

Seedier

Moonraker wrote: »

[snip]
As I posted in the other thread, if you can post system details etc.. then it gives a better chance to offer some suggestions or advice.

Your Mac should not be crashing that often unless you are in PvP. It is one symptom of graphics card issues or heat problem but without more details it's hard to know.

There are a lot of factors in this game that can cause issues. Fixes applied to improve memory leaks, which have generally improved things for the majority of posters, is not likely to be one.

Well, i'm on a 17' MBP 2.8 GHz core 2 duo with 8 Gb RAM (the maximum it can take) with an nVidia 9600M GT 512 MB. I'm running ESO with everything on 'minimum' settings at 1200x600 resolution (and yes it looks gawd awful). I run no add ons.

When i first started playing it was fine on medium settings for most things at 1920 resolution. With every iteration i've found that i've had to reduce settings to maintain playability. I make sure there are no other processes running (at least ones i can easily quit).
The only recent change i can think of is upgrading to OSX 10.9.3. But since then i seem to be crashing every 5 mins or so - i can barely log on until i crash now. Sometimes i can exit the hanging app with cmd-opt-shift-esc but frequently having to reboot as that doesn't work.

Have done the usual system checks (fsck in single user mode, repaired permissions) with no benefit, and have 'repaired' the game through the patcher with equally no benefit.

Any recommendations would be most welcome.

KhajitFurTrader

@Seedier, got any in-game add-ons running? If so, are they on their latest versions?

Moonraker

@Seedier Thanks for posting more details.

Your Mac is the minimum end of the system requirements and will struggle in some situations especially with the nVidia 9600M GT 512 MB. These cards have had known issues and can be a problem.

I am not sure if you were able to play as you say at 1920 Medium and now 1200 x 600 why any of the Mac client changes would make it worse. There could be some data corruption issue though you have Run the Repair.

Certainly crashing within 5-10 minutes indicates something more serious with the Mac perhaps. Do you monitor the temperatures? Do you play other similar games at these resolutions and is it any different?

Personally I would be tempted to reinstall the game from scratch to eliminate any possible data corruption. And check over your Mac and ensure that it is cooling efficiently and ensure it is dust free etc.

If a Reinstall doesn't change things then you may want to look further at a Hardware Check on the GPU.

Outside of PvP there are few reports of this type of crash with this frequency and so fast which does point to some other issue.

As @KhajitFurTrader suggests disable all Addons to eliminate them as a cause as they have been shown to cause issues especially if not updated.

First thing with any issue should be to disable addons.

Seedier

Well thanks for the suggestions guys - but no help there...

As stated in my first post, I run no addons.

I run other games on OSX (although nothing presumably as memory intensive as this, eg Borderlands 2 and similar) without any problems. I have run a number of other MMOs on the bootcamp partition on the same machine (eg Rift and Defiance) with no problems whatsoever.

Since you felt it may be my hardware, i bit the bullet and installed ESO on my bootcamp partition (running winXP on the same machine) and i can report that actually i run at higher resolution with higher frame rates and only rare crashing (less than once per session).

To me this suggests that it is not my hardware as such; however being at the low end, I suspect i'm just uncovering flaws in the software sooner.

Sadly the mac client doesn't seem to be able to run at the lower end of the specs ZOS stated would run the game, whereas the Windows client does so magnificently on the same machine...

As a last ditch attempt, i'll do a fresh install as recommended by @Moonraker, but not holding my breath...

Moonraker

Let's hope the fresh install can hep with this.

Seedier

Thanks @Moonraker‌ - Amazingly, a fresh install has done the trick

I really didn't expect this to make a difference - can only assume there was some kind of file problem following a previous crash that escaped fixes from filesystem checks and the launcher 'repair' function.

I suppose it's worth keeping in mind that the 'repair' function may be flawed.

Moonraker

Seedier wrote: »

Thanks @Moonraker‌ - Amazingly, a fresh install has done the trick

I really didn't expect this to make a difference - can only assume there was some kind of file problem following a previous crash that escaped fixes from filesystem checks and the launcher 'repair' function.

I suppose it's worth keeping in mind that the 'repair' function may be flawed.

No problem. It can happen over time or just some stubborn data corruption.

Glad it sorted it for you

Strongblade

Since the 1.1.2 update I have not experienced a crash. The down side it the graphic degradation over time. I like to use it as an early warning system. Keeps me from crashing in the middle of a battle or quest that results in loss or death, forcing a costly repair bill over the weeks.

Over all a better option, at least for me.

alterfenixeb17_ESO

It would be a good option if they did not touch scene lights at the same time - lights are simply turned down which makes further gameplay just painful experience.

Kayira

Since the update 1.1.2 I am experiencing crashes frequently.
Firstly my graphics revert from medium to minimum and then half an hour later it crashes completely. My RAM seems not to be the reason for it although I am definitely experiencing a memory leak since the craglorn update.
Please fix it soon. It is getting really annoying to restart the game every hour or so.

Moonraker

Kayira wrote: »

Since the update 1.1.2 I am experiencing crashes frequently.
Firstly my graphics revert from medium to minimum and then half an hour later it crashes completely. My RAM seems not to be the reason for it although I am definitely experiencing a memory leak since the craglorn update.
Please fix it soon. It is getting really annoying to restart the game every hour or so.

What is you system setup, OS version, installed RAM? All details can help understand the issue/s better.

There has been a memory crash issue in the Mac client since beta with various changes to it to try and reduce this ongoing.

There may be a change to the LOD system which effects the texture loading in the next update next week in response to player feedback here.

siuolly

Ever since patch 1.1.2 (I did not get this in Beta nor in earlier version of the release), after running the game for awhile, the whole graphic when dark (only part of the game is draw). Logout will not resolve it. I have to quit the game and restart to resolve the problem. Crash is another problem mostly in Cyrodiil but the black screen happened both in PVP and PVE.

Moonraker

siuolly wrote: »

Ever since patch 1.1.2 (I did not get this in Beta nor in earlier version of the release), after running the game for awhile, the whole graphic when dark (only part of the game is draw). Logout will not resolve it. I have to quit the game and restart to resolve the problem. Crash is another problem mostly in Cyrodiil but the black screen happened both in PVP and PVE.

See the previous comments. There was probably a change to the LOD system in the Mac client which may be adjusted to try and improve the memory crash issue, which is does help but at the cost of perhaps too aggressive a downgrade of texture quality. You describe how it will impact the graphics and as it gets lower in available memory and low textures it will get darker in appearance.

Hopefully there will be a change to revert, at least partially this change in the next update. It's just part of tweaking the client to try and improve the memory usage to extend intervals between crashes.

It will also be impacted by the graphics settings you use, the Mac, installed RAM etc.

One thing to note that after update 1.1.2 some of the graphics settings were changed by default so worth checking they are still as previously set. There is also a bug where the resolution can't be changed which hopefully will also be fixed in the next update.

naturn

siuolly wrote: »

Ever since patch 1.1.2 (I did not get this in Beta nor in earlier version of the release), after running the game for awhile, the whole graphic when dark (only part of the game is draw). Logout will not resolve it. I have to quit the game and restart to resolve the problem. Crash is another problem mostly in Cyrodiil but the black screen happened both in PVP and PVE.

I have the same problem. It is like the contrast becomes turned up to the extreme. Most of the screen is black or very dark but you can see near light sources. I must completely reboot the game to fix it.

My computer info:
OS X 10.93
3.2 GHz Intel Core i5
24 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 675MX 1024 MB

Moonraker

naturn wrote: »

siuolly wrote: »

Ever since patch 1.1.2 (I did not get this in Beta nor in earlier version of the release), after running the game for awhile, the whole graphic when dark (only part of the game is draw). Logout will not resolve it. I have to quit the game and restart to resolve the problem. Crash is another problem mostly in Cyrodiil but the black screen happened both in PVP and PVE.

I have the same problem. It is like the contrast becomes turned up to the extreme. Most of the screen is black or very dark but you can see near light sources. I must completely reboot the game to fix it.

My computer info:
OS X 10.93
3.2 GHz Intel Core i5
24 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 675MX 1024 MB

I suspect it tied to the over aggressive LOD system in 1.1.2 which is being readjusted in today's patch as already mentioned. You can see the Mac specific notes on this thread which includes that change. So hopefully this will resolve the problem.

If not maybe it's something else, (perhaps recent OS X 10.9.3 driver?) but too early to say and best to try new update first.

anakaki

Still waiting for fix since beta. I crash every 45 minutes during trials and mess up the run for guild. Unfortunetly we dont finish in 10 minutes but rather at 80-100 as I have to run back every ****** time from waypoint! You guessed it, they won't bring me alongside much longer.

500mbit down/sec 100mbit/sec up internet COMHEM (Sweden, Stockholm)
3,5 GHz Intel Core i7
32 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4096 MB
OS X 10.9.2

GreySix

Interesting note: The game even runs on my dual-processor Mac Pro now without crashing.

Granted: I played it on that machine for only about an hour, usually defaulting instead to my MacBook Pro downstairs on my recliner.

PrinceBoru

Game runs great for me on a Mac mini from 2011.

GreySix

Ran on my dual-processor Mac Pro for about four hours before finally crashing.

Improvement!

Moonraker

GreySix wrote: »

Ran on my dual-processor Mac Pro for about four hours before finally crashing.

Improvement!

Good news! Thanks for posting updates all.

Seedier

If you're finding increasingly frequent crashes, you should probably do what i did: download a fresh install and keep a 2nd copy of that on an external drive. I find that crashes leave corrupt data which isn't fixed with the 'repair' function or by running system wide filesystem repair.

When that happens i simply drop a copy of the fresh install back onto my hard drive and all is right with the world again.

FWIW, this seems to be more frequent with 1.1.4.