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Jabs...old vs. new
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Hrogun✭✭✭The new animation is cool, keep it that way!I seem to be in the minority here, but I absolutely HATED the old "jabs" animation. So glad they changed it.
Same for Flurry...PC EU
Healer2 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!idc if they want to change the spear model, but wth is the wobbly crap at the end. i'm jabbing, not waving around a floppy noodle.
Well, since the Nighthollow staff... err... Aedric spear looks like a shovel, I figured that the templar was digging (or unearthing) a grave while fighting. Perhaps the vampiric influence is so powerful on the Templar that they are conflicted as to whether to smite undead with holy magic or bring up the corpses to fight with, necromancer style.2 -
SaffronCitrusflower✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!I seem to be in the minority here, but I absolutely HATED the old "jabs" animation. So glad they changed it.
Same for Flurry...
I don't think 90% of us should suffer because 10% like the nighthollow stave animation instead of the original templar spear that matches all the other templar animations. The nighthollow stave for jabs doesn't even match all the other templar spear animations.
This is one of those changes that fits into the "what were they thinking?" category.Edited by SaffronCitrusflower on November 5, 2022 11:26PM14 -
Ariordin✭✭✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!The fact that they made a TEMPLAR skill look like a weapon used by reach vampires, and made it black, when everything else about templars is a glowing gold/yellow is the insulting part. If they'd picked a staff that had a closer to templar theme then a templars arch enemies it be less insulting.
Also that they even used a predesigned asset stinks of a quick, 'just change it quick' animation change. Which is something that never should of been done to a core game skill that had been around since launch.
This whole process has just been extremely insulting to people who like to play templars. take out the game mechanics of it. ESO's stats are still a WIP. But the animation change that they picked was an insult to the ESO community. None of your skills you love are safe either.9 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't careClevaTreva wrote: »So... for those who don't mind the animation but hate the nerf; what are ppl using to replace jabs/sweeps?
Nothing. My sweeps is my follow up to using HA with empower. Hit em at range, and sweeps when they close to melee.
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Crimsonwolf666✭✭✭✭The new animation is cool, keep it that way!As a Pvper...templars need a slow animation on these damn jabs....it still doesn't stop the most top teir of Templar Pvpers, but now the regular smoh can't overwhelm other experienced classes via just jabbing. Jabs...honestly was one of the few morphs that needed to be nerfed for Pvp...my PVE templar has NO problems main land and for trials, WBs, or arenas. Just PVP templars seem to hate it most.1 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!Crimsonwolf666 wrote: »As a Pvper...templars need a slow animation on these damn jabs....it still doesn't stop the most top teir of Templar Pvpers, but now the regular smoh can't overwhelm other experienced classes via just jabbing. Jabs...honestly was one of the few morphs that needed to be nerfed for Pvp...my PVE templar has NO problems main land and for trials, WBs, or arenas. Just PVP templars seem to hate it most.
No pvp templar has ever overwhelmed other "experience classes" by just jabbing.
Never. Ever. Ever.
This is completely untrue.
Here is a post from discord from @Dekrypted:
I wasn't kidding in my forum post when I said I had a video showing how you can just ignore jabs
https://youtu.be/qUso9IpSuEY
and another short video from a very experienced pvp healer I know on discord:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jclqqg7bewk
Jabs are and have always been easy for experienced players to deal with.
The only time templar has ever had good potential is if backlash is strong AND a templar is able to stay on the offense for those 6 seconds so it hits hard COMBINED with a burst ult and a well timed stun and a quick auto animation cancel into beam.
Recently with the javelin changes, ice comet into javelin has had some big burst potential when timed with a fully stacked backlash PRE-NERF.
To reiterate, only using jabs has never had the ability to kill experienced players. Ever. Experienced players, like in the videos linked have always been able to deal with jabs.
PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden14 -
Dem_kitkats1✭✭✭✭The new animation is cool, keep it that way!gariondavey wrote: »
To reiterate, only using jabs has never had the ability to kill experienced players. Ever. Experienced players, like in the videos linked have always been able to deal with jabs.
Well yeah, against experienced players, you can't expect anyone on any class to just spam one button and win. Unless on you're on some cracked out HA build miles away. Not to mention in the first vid the magplar only died because it was 2v1, post U35 changes, and the second video was highlighting 1 player against a Warden healer. However, average player against average player, jabs/sweeps was absolutely one of the best spammables in game.
I can sympathize though, Templar was completely gutted, unnecessarily, the last couple of patches.Edited by Dem_kitkats1 on November 6, 2022 6:28PM0 -
Ariordin✭✭✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »
I can sympathize though, Templar was completely gutted, unnecessarily, the last couple of patches.
Even the guy voting no, can sympathize with templars...
We are in such a bad place right now.
This polls been hanging at 72% against forever. do we think thats enough for the devs to care?
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nickl413✭✭✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!Not only does it look horrible, but using a vampiric motif for a skill from the AEDRIC Spear skill line is just nonsensical. Please give more care and attention to the world your game takes place in, ZOS.
I'm pretty sure lore left the chat a long time ago.3 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!As a long time Templar, I'm at a loss as to what to do. So many unnecessary nerfs to Sweeps, and this change to its animation just makes it unfun. I really gave it a try throughout Update 35. But every time I use Sweeps, I look so ridiculous. I wish new players the best. But I'm afraid this old-timer has had it with the Devs killing class identity.7 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The new animation is cool, keep it that way!SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »I seem to be in the minority here, but I absolutely HATED the old "jabs" animation. So glad they changed it.
Same for Flurry...
I don't think 90% of us should suffer because 10% like the nighthollow stave animation instead of the original templar spear that matches all the other templar animations. The nighthollow stave for jabs doesn't even match all the other templar spear animations.
This is one of those changes that fits into the "what were they thinking?" category.
The original:
The redesign:
Like, have I been struck upside the head? Has my bell been rung? Has my brain been shocked with 10,000 volts? Have I swapped out my morning vitamins with crazy pills? Have I just straight up fallen into the backrooms?
The original is a low poly 1990s PS1 crash bandicoot looking pool noodle. I've not changed from this stance for months, and starting to think I'm absolutely bananas. How do people think the old one is better? Could you help explain it?Edited by DocFrost72 on November 7, 2022 11:35AM2 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!DocFrost72 wrote: »SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »I seem to be in the minority here, but I absolutely HATED the old "jabs" animation. So glad they changed it.
Same for Flurry...
I don't think 90% of us should suffer because 10% like the nighthollow stave animation instead of the original templar spear that matches all the other templar animations. The nighthollow stave for jabs doesn't even match all the other templar spear animations.
This is one of those changes that fits into the "what were they thinking?" category.
The original:
The redesign:
Like, have I been struck upside the head? Has my bell been rung? Has my brain been shocked with 10,000 volts? Have I swapped out my morning vitamins with crazy pills? Have I just straight up fallen into the backrooms?
The original is a low poly 1990s PS1 crash bandicoot looking pool noodle. I've not changed from this stance for months, and starting to think I'm absolutely bananas. How do people think the old one is better? Could you help explain it?
You don't look at the new and think how ridiculous it looks to be holding the spear so far forward?12 -
LesserCircle✭✭✭✭✭
✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!The original:
The redesign:
Like, have I been struck upside the head? Has my bell been rung? Has my brain been shocked with 10,000 volts? Have I swapped out my morning vitamins with crazy pills? Have I just straight up fallen into the backrooms?
The original is a low poly 1990s PS1 crash bandicoot looking pool noodle. I've not changed from this stance for months, and starting to think I'm absolutely bananas. How do people think the old one is better? Could you help explain it?
The original was a beam of light with an awesome fast animation.
The new one has a shovel animation with the nighthollow staff as a model lol.
Edited by LesserCircle on November 7, 2022 11:40AM15 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The new animation is cool, keep it that way!TechMaybeHic wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »I seem to be in the minority here, but I absolutely HATED the old "jabs" animation. So glad they changed it.
Same for Flurry...
I don't think 90% of us should suffer because 10% like the nighthollow stave animation instead of the original templar spear that matches all the other templar animations. The nighthollow stave for jabs doesn't even match all the other templar spear animations.
This is one of those changes that fits into the "what were they thinking?" category.
The original:
The redesign:
Like, have I been struck upside the head? Has my bell been rung? Has my brain been shocked with 10,000 volts? Have I swapped out my morning vitamins with crazy pills? Have I just straight up fallen into the backrooms?
The original is a low poly 1990s PS1 crash bandicoot looking pool noodle. I've not changed from this stance for months, and starting to think I'm absolutely bananas. How do people think the old one is better? Could you help explain it?
You don't look at the new and think how ridiculous it looks to be holding the spear so far forward?
That's a valid criticism. While one can use a staff from nearer to the hilt for more control on placing the thrust, it does give range to hold it farther back.
But do you see my point of the actual spear itself looking far worse in the old model?LesserCircle wrote: »The original:
The redesign:
Like, have I been struck upside the head? Has my bell been rung? Has my brain been shocked with 10,000 volts? Have I swapped out my morning vitamins with crazy pills? Have I just straight up fallen into the backrooms?
The original is a low poly 1990s PS1 crash bandicoot looking pool noodle. I've not changed from this stance for months, and starting to think I'm absolutely bananas. How do people think the old one is better? Could you help explain it?
The original was a beam of light with an awesome fast animation.
The new one has a shovel animation with the nighthollow staff as a model lol.
I really do have to ask, you see the original as a beam of light? I see it as
And the new animation looks less like a lightsaber, and more like the motion of a weapon. Albeit as Tech said, perhaps gripped strangely.Edited by DocFrost72 on November 7, 2022 11:46AM1 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!DocFrost72 wrote: »SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »I seem to be in the minority here, but I absolutely HATED the old "jabs" animation. So glad they changed it.
Same for Flurry...
I don't think 90% of us should suffer because 10% like the nighthollow stave animation instead of the original templar spear that matches all the other templar animations. The nighthollow stave for jabs doesn't even match all the other templar spear animations.
This is one of those changes that fits into the "what were they thinking?" category.
The original:
The redesign:
Like, have I been struck upside the head? Has my bell been rung? Has my brain been shocked with 10,000 volts? Have I swapped out my morning vitamins with crazy pills? Have I just straight up fallen into the backrooms?
The original is a low poly 1990s PS1 crash bandicoot looking pool noodle. I've not changed from this stance for months, and starting to think I'm absolutely bananas. How do people think the old one is better? Could you help explain it?
@DocFrost72 the original spear looks like a Roman Pillum to me instead of your PS1 needle. It would fit too considering the Imperials are fantasy Romans for the most part in style.
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Ariordin✭✭✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!DocFrost72 wrote: »SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »I seem to be in the minority here, but I absolutely HATED the old "jabs" animation. So glad they changed it.
Same for Flurry...
I don't think 90% of us should suffer because 10% like the nighthollow stave animation instead of the original templar spear that matches all the other templar animations. The nighthollow stave for jabs doesn't even match all the other templar spear animations.
This is one of those changes that fits into the "what were they thinking?" category.
The original:
The redesign:
Like, have I been struck upside the head? Has my bell been rung? Has my brain been shocked with 10,000 volts? Have I swapped out my morning vitamins with crazy pills? Have I just straight up fallen into the backrooms?
The original is a low poly 1990s PS1 crash bandicoot looking pool noodle. I've not changed from this stance for months, and starting to think I'm absolutely bananas. How do people think the old one is better? Could you help explain it?
The original staff was it was meant to be a gleaming essence of a weapon, not a physical object. Thats the idea behind the skill line. The original fit the theme. The new one does not.
But the new one is a VAMPIRE staff on a TEMPLAR. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Nighthollow_Style
I think there would be less of an uproar if they'd picked a staff that looked more like a weapon a templar would use.
The other Aedric spear skills use the SAME animation for the spear as the old jabs... now they have 2 skills with the original jabs and a vampire staff. It makes no sense.9 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!I do not use new jabs, such bad they are )6
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Rogue_WolfESO✭✭✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!Undo all recent animation changes, and also while you're at it, restore all sets and mythic to their original release conditions pre-nerf.
Balance!4 -
UnabashedlyHonest✭✭✭✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!Rogue_WolfESO wrote: »Undo all recent animation changes, and also while you're at it, restore all sets and mythic to their original release conditions pre-nerf.
Balance!
I agree with your sentiments, but I fear your suggestion would run counter to ZOS' business model of using OP mythic items to sell new content.6 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!Return combat to 3-4 years ago state. It was good and playable.
Current game version is some thing bad.
Game lose players, after summerset big number of players are not happy.
After U35 - 15% of players (who liked PVP and PVE and were exp - leave the game !!!)
The most part of players now are those who do not even care about PVE/PVP and are more interested in quests and other casual activities !
You can clearly see it just looking on statistics as example in steam.
It is hard not to see it and how bad are a lot of changes for last 2-3 years.Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 8, 2022 3:39PM6 -
Auldwulfe✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't careI have a theory.... mind you, it is circumstantial, at this point, but it is a theory.
My theory is that they are finally giving us something we have been asking to have, for a long time - a new weapon line, based on the spear.
My reasons....
I have noticed that I am seeing more spears on racks, and randomly .... maybe, though, I am just noticing things that were already there.
Change to Flurry --- to be more in line with non-spear weapons, and reduced from 5 hits to 4......
Change in the Templar jabs, and some other little details....
Now, if the spear line is a thing, it would probably have something like Flurry... and very likely, 4 hits, to be in line with Flurry..... and might be where the old jabs has gone.....
Two, the change to Jabs was right about in line with other remarks as to how far ahead the dev team is, when it comes to updates..... especially if we are getting the new weapon line in this coming year.....
I could be entirely wrong.... but it is a theory, and there is some stuff to support ...., I am hoping that is the case.
Auldwulfe1 -
SaffronCitrusflower✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!I have a theory.... mind you, it is circumstantial, at this point, but it is a theory.
My theory is that they are finally giving us something we have been asking to have, for a long time - a new weapon line, based on the spear.
My reasons....
I have noticed that I am seeing more spears on racks, and randomly .... maybe, though, I am just noticing things that were already there.
Change to Flurry --- to be more in line with non-spear weapons, and reduced from 5 hits to 4......
Change in the Templar jabs, and some other little details....
Now, if the spear line is a thing, it would probably have something like Flurry... and very likely, 4 hits, to be in line with Flurry..... and might be where the old jabs has gone.....
Two, the change to Jabs was right about in line with other remarks as to how far ahead the dev team is, when it comes to updates..... especially if we are getting the new weapon line in this coming year.....
I could be entirely wrong.... but it is a theory, and there is some stuff to support ...., I am hoping that is the case.
Auldwulfe
Except the Jabs animation isn't a spear, it's a nighthollow staff; a 2 handed staff that has existed in the game since the nighthollow style motif was released several years ago. Jabs doesn't use a spear anymore, it uses a staff. The original animation could be called a spear. The new animation can't be called anything other than a staff, because that's what it is.7 -
Auldwulfe✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't careSaffronCitrusflower wrote: »I have a theory.... mind you, it is circumstantial, at this point, but it is a theory.
My theory is that they are finally giving us something we have been asking to have, for a long time - a new weapon line, based on the spear.
My reasons....
I have noticed that I am seeing more spears on racks, and randomly .... maybe, though, I am just noticing things that were already there.
Change to Flurry --- to be more in line with non-spear weapons, and reduced from 5 hits to 4......
Change in the Templar jabs, and some other little details....
Now, if the spear line is a thing, it would probably have something like Flurry... and very likely, 4 hits, to be in line with Flurry..... and might be where the old jabs has gone.....
Two, the change to Jabs was right about in line with other remarks as to how far ahead the dev team is, when it comes to updates..... especially if we are getting the new weapon line in this coming year.....
I could be entirely wrong.... but it is a theory, and there is some stuff to support ...., I am hoping that is the case.
Auldwulfe
Except the Jabs animation isn't a spear, it's a nighthollow staff; a 2 handed staff that has existed in the game since the nighthollow style motif was released several years ago. Jabs doesn't use a spear anymore, it uses a staff. The original animation could be called a spear. The new animation can't be called anything other than a staff, because that's what it is.
I agree - neither of my Templars use it at all, I duel wield Flurry... not much better, but with animation clipping, I can make it sort of work, if I keep my rhythm right. The other uses Stampede and Cleave.
I am saying that they took the jab, because a future spear skill would use it --- 4 fast jabs in the same time as a Flurry .....
I do hope they fix the mess they have currently... you know, maybe not use a vampire motif for sunlight wielding warriors..... but that is down the road.
Auldwulfe
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Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!I have tried using the new version and sadly its almost comical compared to the old version which was fresh and sharp vs this one which seems really [snip] and pointless.
Really hope they would please consider switching this back, along with Flurry. They're both just bad and weird now.
[edited for minor bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on November 11, 2022 7:15PMToday Victory is mine. Long Live the Empire.7 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!Why swing out the spear to the right and stomp the foot on the last hit? I try not to notice the animation.
Disclosure: I didn't like the old one either.Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--1 -
Wolf_Eye✭✭✭✭✭
✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!Why swing out the spear to the right and stomp the foot on the last hit? I try not to notice the animation.
Disclosure: I didn't like the old one either.
That's the worse part of it for me. That weird swing out to the side. The way your toon just uses their whole upper body to swing doesn't look natural for a spear, it looks like you're digging with a shovel....6 -
Ramber✭✭✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!It looks like a joke and feels horrible. I have 2 templars i have used for years and they have my best solo arena scores for years as well. I have STOPPED using both completely since the new animation. And I know players in my guld that simply hate it as well and just want to not even play cause they have only used a templar for so long. Its depressing like a lot of the recent changes. There us only one think that anyone i know likes about the last 2 patches.7
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Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!DocFrost72 wrote: »SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »I seem to be in the minority here, but I absolutely HATED the old "jabs" animation. So glad they changed it.
Same for Flurry...
I don't think 90% of us should suffer because 10% like the nighthollow stave animation instead of the original templar spear that matches all the other templar animations. The nighthollow stave for jabs doesn't even match all the other templar spear animations.
This is one of those changes that fits into the "what were they thinking?" category.
The original:
The redesign:
Like, have I been struck upside the head? Has my bell been rung? Has my brain been shocked with 10,000 volts? Have I swapped out my morning vitamins with crazy pills? Have I just straight up fallen into the backrooms?
The original is a low poly 1990s PS1 crash bandicoot looking pool noodle. I've not changed from this stance for months, and starting to think I'm absolutely bananas. How do people think the old one is better? Could you help explain it?
To be fair here its not about the 'spear' itself.
If Templar is based on the European Knight, then they should be using 'lances' and not 'spears'. If you take a moment and let that sink in, you'll see yet another reason why this particular change is so comical and just plain silly. Hence, when the Templar charges he's like a Medievel Knight gap closing with his lance, same when throwing it. Although true, the Knights never used a lance in the same manner as jabs, which itself is like using a spear. But I think that's the point. Templar is kicking some arse with his lancer, which was awesome.
So that right there by itself should make this clearer. Another thing too, your top image of the Templar with the Lance, looks like that Knight is displaying Confidence and Professionalism. The one at the bottom is some guy using uh what looks like an enchanted spear or trident from some ambiguous fairy tale. I for one have no idea why this was done, its not just shameful it brings all of us who enjoy playing the Templar way down below to the level of those who chose this for us. I mean, the new 'spear' isn't even a spear proper... its a staff from a vampire motif? eh? We don't even get an original design. This by itself screams of laziness. Especially using a Vampire Staff to act as a spear for a Holy Knight. And you think you got shocked...
But again, this is one change right? I can just imagine what else they're planning to do and I've thought about it and if they keep pulling this crap they can count me out to. Skyblivion and other mods for example, they are painstakingly doing everything they can to get it right while ESO has good content and seems like they want to throw it away or something. I still can't figure it out but I have a couple clues which indicate to me that they're going to just do whatever they want, even to intentionally frustrate us which breaks trust in their product, prevents the growth of a solid relationship with this company, among other things that others have already said in the past and I will not repeat here.
But its their game, now more than ever before.Edited by Vulkunne on November 9, 2022 4:54AMToday Victory is mine. Long Live the Empire.6 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The new animation is horrible, bring back the old one!But again, this is one change right? I can just imagine what else they're planning to do and I've thought about it and if they keep pulling this crap they can count me out to.
They have mentioned that they like surprising players with new stuff and "want to protect the hard work of our dev team from being spoiled." But it seems like a lot of the new things aren't very well received, such as the animation changes to which this thread refers, the Daggerfall Paladin costume, the "Alliance" banners, and so forth.
It does make one wonder what the process is for approving such dramatic changes to beloved gameplay traditions. Is there a player testing panel that reviews these things? Is it discussed among the entire dev team? Of does one dev submit an idea which one manager signs off on and is then queued up in the appropriate patch? It would be interesting and insightful to know how the whole thing works.
4