Maintenance for the week of December 2:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 2, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 2, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
Happy with the new patch
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Astrid✭✭✭✭✭With how easy the game is with alot of content i think its good the overall dps gets nerfed a bit.
Also happy about the oakensoul changes for pvp.
Ok, show us all of your titles and skins. If it’s that easy.
I’ve watched people from
some of the less sweaty content prog old, basic content for god knows how long and actively struggle during “power creep” - they are going to suffer even worse after U35. Falgravn, Xalvakka and Taleria in particular are going to be hard walls for those with insufficient dps and good supports who can hold the fight together for longer.
The good players with good supports may struggle a little more than usual, but as people who are more seasoned and actually care about being good at the game and learning it at its core - they’ll adapt. Just as they always have.
Good luck casuals 😂
8 -
Panachudo✭✭ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Snip.....
It's pleasent having a mature conversation. Thank you.
You raise some valid points about the PvP for sure. Fighting the meta would indeed be a difficult endeavor. The way you laid that argument out was well put together.
Combating this specifically is a difficult job considering sets are used interchangeably between PvE and PvP. An off the cuff thought would be to segregate PvE sets from PvP sets. This isn't thought out by any means, but, what if there were two combat systems? That could be expanded into having PvP sets just for PvP and PvE sets just for PvE. I find the thought of that to be quite interesting to be honest. I feel it would be ideal for combat adjustments in either environment. Hmmmmm. What's your thought on that?Edited by Panachudo on August 17, 2022 7:29PM0 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Snip.....
It's pleasent having a mature conversation. Thank you.
You raise some valid points about the PvP for sure. Fighting the meta would indeed be a difficult endeavor. The way you laid that argument out was well put together.
Combating this specifically is a difficult job considering sets are used interchangeably between PvE and PvP. An off the cuff thought would be to segregate PvE sets from PvP sets. This isn't thought out by any means, but, what if there were two combat systems? That could be expanded into having PvP sets just for PvP and PvE sets just for PvE. I find the thought of that to be quite interesting to be honest. I feel it would be ideal for combat adjustments in either environment. Hmmmmm. What's your thought on that?
The first issue with that is now you have to farm even more sets. Right now there are dozens of sets that work perfectly fine in both. I have a dark convergence tank for non-HM vet PvE content, for example.
By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.
The second issue is there just isn't an economic way for them to develop two separate game modes. The sheer amount of money they spend now is solely covered by ESO+ and crown store purchases. How are they supposed to support two large teams to tackle PvE and pvp separately?I drink and I stream things.0 -
ThirdEye_PULSE✭✭✭✭ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Snip.....
It's pleasent having a mature conversation. Thank you.
You raise some valid points about the PvP for sure. Fighting the meta would indeed be a difficult endeavor. The way you laid that argument out was well put together.
Combating this specifically is a difficult job considering sets are used interchangeably between PvE and PvP. An off the cuff thought would be to segregate PvE sets from PvP sets. This isn't thought out by any means, but, what if there were two combat systems? That could be expanded into having PvP sets just for PvP and PvE sets just for PvE. I find the thought of that to be quite interesting to be honest. I feel it would be ideal for combat adjustments in either environment. Hmmmmm. What's your thought on that?
Thanks. I thought you laid out a constructive take on some of the current problems in ESO and yes, ZOS could go a long way towards raising the floor just by doing a better job of introducing weaving/mechanics tutorials.
For instance, i would love having a toggle option for pop-up help with mechanics of certain veteran dungeons. Especially in PUG groups where asking about such things can often end the group.
Now, as for seperating PVP and PVE they have started doing that more and more so. Its currently being done through "Battle Spirit". The set "Rallying Cry" for instance.. the 5th line of the set can only be activated while battle spirit is active.
Recently, 40k HA One shot builds became an issue in PVP whereas in PVE these builds help people that dont or cant LA weave. Rather than simply nerfing all HA builds they made it so thay empower cannot be used while battle spirit is active. Effectively this makes HA one shot builds less effective for pvp. A very smart move if you ask me.
I think throughout almost all of ESO history, drastic nerfs and buffs have happened wherein a buff would be great for PVE and completely ruin PVP. I think this back and forth balancing act was impossible to ever get right as PVP and PVE could almost be considered seperate games. I would wager that by now the wild changes are just habitual and engrained in the culture of ZOS but it probably started in this way wherein they would buff something and PVPers would jump on the forums screaming bloody murder then nerf it and PVE people would jump on the forums next.
Battle spirit has been around for a long time. It seems like they only recently started using it more so to balance sets and the like which I hope they continue doing in the future and in the long run will lead to a more balanced game. Its impossible, i believe, to have a balanced game and have it balanced for both PVE and PVP without seperating the balancing through aspects of the game like battle spirit.
Hope you have a good day.
Edited by ThirdEye_PULSE on August 18, 2022 11:35AM1 -
ThirdEye_PULSE✭✭✭✭ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Snip.....
It's pleasent having a mature conversation. Thank you.
You raise some valid points about the PvP for sure. Fighting the meta would indeed be a difficult endeavor. The way you laid that argument out was well put together.
Combating this specifically is a difficult job considering sets are used interchangeably between PvE and PvP. An off the cuff thought would be to segregate PvE sets from PvP sets. This isn't thought out by any means, but, what if there were two combat systems? That could be expanded into having PvP sets just for PvP and PvE sets just for PvE. I find the thought of that to be quite interesting to be honest. I feel it would be ideal for combat adjustments in either environment. Hmmmmm. What's your thought on that?
The first issue with that is now you have to farm even more sets. Right now there are dozens of sets that work perfectly fine in both. I have a dark convergence tank for non-HM vet PvE content, for example.
By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.
The second issue is there just isn't an economic way for them to develop two separate game modes. The sheer amount of money they spend now is solely covered by ESO+ and crown store purchases. How are they supposed to support two large teams to tackle PvE and pvp separately?
Hmm. I have sets for pvp and sets for pve. Completely seperate for me. The traits are completely different that you need for both game modes.
They actually have started making sets for just pvp. Rallying Cry. 5th line only works while battle spirit is active.
You dont have to worry about them developing two different game modes. Pvp and pvp players in general have been on life support in this game for many years. Long ago they stopped making any real deveopments or new content for PVP. Its just not a priority for ZOS. I enjoy the PVP in ESO but i dont have any hope ZOS will ever give us any new content.
Seems ZOS has decided in general their end game no longer matters for the bottom line. U35 is the beginning of them distancing themselves from end game PVE players. U35 was the clear signal from ZOS that those players no longer matter to them.
Join the club. Us end game PVP players have been here for years. Weve made the club as cosy as we could with the little we are given but theres no glamor or love to be found here.3 -
boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Snip.....
It's pleasent having a mature conversation. Thank you.
You raise some valid points about the PvP for sure. Fighting the meta would indeed be a difficult endeavor. The way you laid that argument out was well put together.
Combating this specifically is a difficult job considering sets are used interchangeably between PvE and PvP. An off the cuff thought would be to segregate PvE sets from PvP sets. This isn't thought out by any means, but, what if there were two combat systems? That could be expanded into having PvP sets just for PvP and PvE sets just for PvE. I find the thought of that to be quite interesting to be honest. I feel it would be ideal for combat adjustments in either environment. Hmmmmm. What's your thought on that?
The first issue with that is now you have to farm even more sets. Right now there are dozens of sets that work perfectly fine in both. I have a dark convergence tank for non-HM vet PvE content, for example.
By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.
The second issue is there just isn't an economic way for them to develop two separate game modes. The sheer amount of money they spend now is solely covered by ESO+ and crown store purchases. How are they supposed to support two large teams to tackle PvE and pvp separately?
Hmm. I have sets for pvp and sets for pve. Completely seperate for me. The traits are completely different that you need for both game modes.
They actually have started making sets for just pvp. Rallying Cry. 5th line only works while battle spirit is active.
You dont have to worry about them developing two different game modes. Pvp and pvp players in general have been on life support in this game for many years. Long ago they stopped making any real deveopments or new content for PVP. Its just not a priority for ZOS. I enjoy the PVP in ESO but i dont have any hope ZOS will ever give us any new content.
Seems ZOS has decided in general their end game no longer matters for the bottom line. U35 is the beginning of them distancing themselves from end game PVE players. U35 was the clear signal from ZOS that those players no longer matter to them.
Join the club. Us end game PVP players have been here for years. Weve made the club as cosy as we could with the little we are given but theres no glamor or love to be found here.
See that's the thing, I already have a completely different build for pvp and they already have battle spirit that they could expand on for the basis. I understand it's a huge undertaking that said it objectively would avoid a lot of the issues. I got into pvp a little bit ago and I am sad to see the state of it. Just no new content at all. I think people that play both kind of get it the best because they are assessing for both sides vs one or the other. Give us one new battleground even once a year...0 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Snip.....
It's pleasent having a mature conversation. Thank you.
You raise some valid points about the PvP for sure. Fighting the meta would indeed be a difficult endeavor. The way you laid that argument out was well put together.
Combating this specifically is a difficult job considering sets are used interchangeably between PvE and PvP. An off the cuff thought would be to segregate PvE sets from PvP sets. This isn't thought out by any means, but, what if there were two combat systems? That could be expanded into having PvP sets just for PvP and PvE sets just for PvE. I find the thought of that to be quite interesting to be honest. I feel it would be ideal for combat adjustments in either environment. Hmmmmm. What's your thought on that?
The first issue with that is now you have to farm even more sets. Right now there are dozens of sets that work perfectly fine in both. I have a dark convergence tank for non-HM vet PvE content, for example.
By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.
The second issue is there just isn't an economic way for them to develop two separate game modes. The sheer amount of money they spend now is solely covered by ESO+ and crown store purchases. How are they supposed to support two large teams to tackle PvE and pvp separately?
Hmm. I have sets for pvp and sets for pve. Completely seperate for me. The traits are completely different that you need for both game modes.
They actually have started making sets for just pvp. Rallying Cry. 5th line only works while battle spirit is active.
You dont have to worry about them developing two different game modes. Pvp and pvp players in general have been on life support in this game for many years. Long ago they stopped making any real deveopments or new content for PVP. Its just not a priority for ZOS. I enjoy the PVP in ESO but i dont have any hope ZOS will ever give us any new content.
Seems ZOS has decided in general their end game no longer matters for the bottom line. U35 is the beginning of them distancing themselves from end game PVE players. U35 was the clear signal from ZOS that those players no longer matter to them.
Join the club. Us end game PVP players have been here for years. Weve made the club as cosy as we could with the little we are given but theres no glamor or love to be found here.
Respectfully, this is flat out wrong. PVP isn't dead. Most pvpers do both modes and just because you have separate gear doesn't mean other people don't use both.
Look at live NBs.
Ignore oak for a moment. Many were running Caluurions, deadlands and Selene's. All PvE sets. I'm not running that but I'm also running PvE sets. The same is true of most other builds. Not a lot of sets that are PVP sourced are very useful in 2022.
Yes they've added certain sets that have conditions, which is great, because they simply wouldn't function well otherwise. Rallying Cry would be stupidly ridiculous in PvE.
The reason they aren't pumping out PVP content has nothing to do with them not caring about PVP. They are currently in the midst of a complete rewrite of the server code specifically to fix PVP performance, a very large undertaking. When they announced this they told everyone they will not be developing PVP content until it's done since the server can't handle the current content. Maybe you weren't aware of this?
Meanwhile they've completed the hardware refresh on PC and are working on console. Again to help PVP just as much if not more than PvE.I drink and I stream things.0 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭boi_anachronism_ wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Snip.....
It's pleasent having a mature conversation. Thank you.
You raise some valid points about the PvP for sure. Fighting the meta would indeed be a difficult endeavor. The way you laid that argument out was well put together.
Combating this specifically is a difficult job considering sets are used interchangeably between PvE and PvP. An off the cuff thought would be to segregate PvE sets from PvP sets. This isn't thought out by any means, but, what if there were two combat systems? That could be expanded into having PvP sets just for PvP and PvE sets just for PvE. I find the thought of that to be quite interesting to be honest. I feel it would be ideal for combat adjustments in either environment. Hmmmmm. What's your thought on that?
The first issue with that is now you have to farm even more sets. Right now there are dozens of sets that work perfectly fine in both. I have a dark convergence tank for non-HM vet PvE content, for example.
By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.
The second issue is there just isn't an economic way for them to develop two separate game modes. The sheer amount of money they spend now is solely covered by ESO+ and crown store purchases. How are they supposed to support two large teams to tackle PvE and pvp separately?
Hmm. I have sets for pvp and sets for pve. Completely seperate for me. The traits are completely different that you need for both game modes.
They actually have started making sets for just pvp. Rallying Cry. 5th line only works while battle spirit is active.
You dont have to worry about them developing two different game modes. Pvp and pvp players in general have been on life support in this game for many years. Long ago they stopped making any real deveopments or new content for PVP. Its just not a priority for ZOS. I enjoy the PVP in ESO but i dont have any hope ZOS will ever give us any new content.
Seems ZOS has decided in general their end game no longer matters for the bottom line. U35 is the beginning of them distancing themselves from end game PVE players. U35 was the clear signal from ZOS that those players no longer matter to them.
Join the club. Us end game PVP players have been here for years. Weve made the club as cosy as we could with the little we are given but theres no glamor or love to be found here.
See that's the thing, I already have a completely different build for pvp and they already have battle spirit that they could expand on for the basis. I understand it's a huge undertaking that said it objectively would avoid a lot of the issues. I got into pvp a little bit ago and I am sad to see the state of it. Just no new content at all. I think people that play both kind of get it the best because they are assessing for both sides vs one or the other. Give us one new battleground even once a year...
Exactly. If ZoS could make separate PVE and PVP attributes for skills and equipment sets it would solve the balance issue between those often conflicting modes since they could be balanced separately. An if/then statement - If battlespirit is present use PVP attributes; else use PVE attributes. ZoS already knows how to use Battlespirit so I have confidence they could make this system work.0 -
ThirdEye_PULSE✭✭✭✭ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Snip.....
It's pleasent having a mature conversation. Thank you.
You raise some valid points about the PvP for sure. Fighting the meta would indeed be a difficult endeavor. The way you laid that argument out was well put together.
Combating this specifically is a difficult job considering sets are used interchangeably between PvE and PvP. An off the cuff thought would be to segregate PvE sets from PvP sets. This isn't thought out by any means, but, what if there were two combat systems? That could be expanded into having PvP sets just for PvP and PvE sets just for PvE. I find the thought of that to be quite interesting to be honest. I feel it would be ideal for combat adjustments in either environment. Hmmmmm. What's your thought on that?
The first issue with that is now you have to farm even more sets. Right now there are dozens of sets that work perfectly fine in both. I have a dark convergence tank for non-HM vet PvE content, for example.
By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.
The second issue is there just isn't an economic way for them to develop two separate game modes. The sheer amount of money they spend now is solely covered by ESO+ and crown store purchases. How are they supposed to support two large teams to tackle PvE and pvp separately?
Hmm. I have sets for pvp and sets for pve. Completely seperate for me. The traits are completely different that you need for both game modes.
They actually have started making sets for just pvp. Rallying Cry. 5th line only works while battle spirit is active.
You dont have to worry about them developing two different game modes. Pvp and pvp players in general have been on life support in this game for many years. Long ago they stopped making any real deveopments or new content for PVP. Its just not a priority for ZOS. I enjoy the PVP in ESO but i dont have any hope ZOS will ever give us any new content.
Seems ZOS has decided in general their end game no longer matters for the bottom line. U35 is the beginning of them distancing themselves from end game PVE players. U35 was the clear signal from ZOS that those players no longer matter to them.
Join the club. Us end game PVP players have been here for years. Weve made the club as cosy as we could with the little we are given but theres no glamor or love to be found here.
Respectfully, this is flat out wrong. PVP isn't dead. Most pvpers do both modes and just because you have separate gear doesn't mean other people don't use both.
Look at live NBs.
Ignore oak for a moment. Many were running Caluurions, deadlands and Selene's. All PvE sets. I'm not running that but I'm also running PvE sets. The same is true of most other builds. Not a lot of sets that are PVP sourced are very useful in 2022.
Yes they've added certain sets that have conditions, which is great, because they simply wouldn't function well otherwise. Rallying Cry would be stupidly ridiculous in PvE.
The reason they aren't pumping out PVP content has nothing to do with them not caring about PVP. They are currently in the midst of a complete rewrite of the server code specifically to fix PVP performance, a very large undertaking. When they announced this they told everyone they will not be developing PVP content until it's done since the server can't handle the current content. Maybe you weren't aware of this?
Meanwhile they've completed the hardware refresh on PC and are working on console. Again to help PVP just as much if not more than PvE.
Didnt say PVP was dead. Its not what it used to be but it still has a population that enjoy it. It just doesnt feel like ZOS does anything outside of balance or addressing performance issues for PVP. By and large, most of their attention is towards PVE and PVP is always second. Which is fine.
Having played games which were MMOs and PVP motivated like Albion Online, you can clearly notice the difference when PVP is a high priority by developers and when it isnt.
Now, my main point was that the majority of ZOS attention is on their bottom line. The majority of the game is casual players. They dont end game pve or pvp which i also consider end game. It makes sense financially, yes.
I guess when your the minority in any game, you will usually get the least attention by developers. Cant really blame ZOS for catering to the majority of their playerbase.
Forgive me but fixing performance issues in Cyrodil which has been an issue for years is not ZOS giving it a high priority imo like you suggest. If it was a high priority it would have been fixed years ago. That isnt something to celebrate.
Introducing insanely overtuned sets every 3 months which get abused in PVP also is not a high priority.
So yes, PVP isnt dead by any stretch of the imagination but i dont think its "flat out wrong" to say we are not a priority for ZOS.Edited by ThirdEye_PULSE on August 18, 2022 2:30PM1 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Snip.....
It's pleasent having a mature conversation. Thank you.
You raise some valid points about the PvP for sure. Fighting the meta would indeed be a difficult endeavor. The way you laid that argument out was well put together.
Combating this specifically is a difficult job considering sets are used interchangeably between PvE and PvP. An off the cuff thought would be to segregate PvE sets from PvP sets. This isn't thought out by any means, but, what if there were two combat systems? That could be expanded into having PvP sets just for PvP and PvE sets just for PvE. I find the thought of that to be quite interesting to be honest. I feel it would be ideal for combat adjustments in either environment. Hmmmmm. What's your thought on that?
The first issue with that is now you have to farm even more sets. Right now there are dozens of sets that work perfectly fine in both. I have a dark convergence tank for non-HM vet PvE content, for example.
By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.
The second issue is there just isn't an economic way for them to develop two separate game modes. The sheer amount of money they spend now is solely covered by ESO+ and crown store purchases. How are they supposed to support two large teams to tackle PvE and pvp separately?
Hmm. I have sets for pvp and sets for pve. Completely seperate for me. The traits are completely different that you need for both game modes.
They actually have started making sets for just pvp. Rallying Cry. 5th line only works while battle spirit is active.
You dont have to worry about them developing two different game modes. Pvp and pvp players in general have been on life support in this game for many years. Long ago they stopped making any real deveopments or new content for PVP. Its just not a priority for ZOS. I enjoy the PVP in ESO but i dont have any hope ZOS will ever give us any new content.
Seems ZOS has decided in general their end game no longer matters for the bottom line. U35 is the beginning of them distancing themselves from end game PVE players. U35 was the clear signal from ZOS that those players no longer matter to them.
Join the club. Us end game PVP players have been here for years. Weve made the club as cosy as we could with the little we are given but theres no glamor or love to be found here.
Respectfully, this is flat out wrong. PVP isn't dead. Most pvpers do both modes and just because you have separate gear doesn't mean other people don't use both.
Look at live NBs.
Ignore oak for a moment. Many were running Caluurions, deadlands and Selene's. All PvE sets. I'm not running that but I'm also running PvE sets. The same is true of most other builds. Not a lot of sets that are PVP sourced are very useful in 2022.
Yes they've added certain sets that have conditions, which is great, because they simply wouldn't function well otherwise. Rallying Cry would be stupidly ridiculous in PvE.
The reason they aren't pumping out PVP content has nothing to do with them not caring about PVP. They are currently in the midst of a complete rewrite of the server code specifically to fix PVP performance, a very large undertaking. When they announced this they told everyone they will not be developing PVP content until it's done since the server can't handle the current content. Maybe you weren't aware of this?
Meanwhile they've completed the hardware refresh on PC and are working on console. Again to help PVP just as much if not more than PvE.
Didnt say PVP was dead. Its not what it used to be but it still has a population that enjoy it. It just doesnt feel like ZOS does anything outside of balance or addressing performance issues for PVP. By and large, most of their attention is towards PVE and PVP is always second. Which is fine.
Having played games which were MMOs and PVP motivated like Albion Online, you can clearly notice the difference when PVP is a high priority by developers and when it isnt.
Now, my main point was that the majority of ZOS attention is on their bottom line. The majority of the game is casual players. They dont end game pve or pvp which i also consider end game. It makes sense financially, yes.
I guess when your the minority in any game, you will usually get the least attention by developers. Cant really blame ZOS for catering to the majority of their playerbase.
Forgive me but fixing performance issues in Cyrodil which has been an issue for years is not ZOS giving it a high priority imo like you suggest. If it was a high priority it would have been fixed years ago.
I explained why there hasn't been any new PVP expansion as announced by them. And every game maker is focused on the bottom line. Otherwise you can't make and sustain the game.
I'm glad I'm not a developer. Reading this board over the last 4 weeks is really eye opening on how difficult it is to both make necessary updates to the game and also making players happy who don't want change.I drink and I stream things.2 -
Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭The reason they aren't pumping out PVP content has nothing to do with them not caring about PVP. They are currently in the midst of a complete rewrite of the server code specifically to fix PVP performance, a very large undertaking. When they announced this they told everyone they will not be developing PVP content until it's done since the server can't handle the current content. Maybe you weren't aware of this?
Is it confirmed that they are still doing that? I thought they upgraded the hardware from the old 2012 stuff, everything started running much better, so they abandoned that effort and gave a "well, it turns out it was a hardware issue everybody!" statement1 -
ThirdEye_PULSE✭✭✭✭ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Snip.....
It's pleasent having a mature conversation. Thank you.
You raise some valid points about the PvP for sure. Fighting the meta would indeed be a difficult endeavor. The way you laid that argument out was well put together.
Combating this specifically is a difficult job considering sets are used interchangeably between PvE and PvP. An off the cuff thought would be to segregate PvE sets from PvP sets. This isn't thought out by any means, but, what if there were two combat systems? That could be expanded into having PvP sets just for PvP and PvE sets just for PvE. I find the thought of that to be quite interesting to be honest. I feel it would be ideal for combat adjustments in either environment. Hmmmmm. What's your thought on that?
The first issue with that is now you have to farm even more sets. Right now there are dozens of sets that work perfectly fine in both. I have a dark convergence tank for non-HM vet PvE content, for example.
By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.
The second issue is there just isn't an economic way for them to develop two separate game modes. The sheer amount of money they spend now is solely covered by ESO+ and crown store purchases. How are they supposed to support two large teams to tackle PvE and pvp separately?
Hmm. I have sets for pvp and sets for pve. Completely seperate for me. The traits are completely different that you need for both game modes.
They actually have started making sets for just pvp. Rallying Cry. 5th line only works while battle spirit is active.
You dont have to worry about them developing two different game modes. Pvp and pvp players in general have been on life support in this game for many years. Long ago they stopped making any real deveopments or new content for PVP. Its just not a priority for ZOS. I enjoy the PVP in ESO but i dont have any hope ZOS will ever give us any new content.
Seems ZOS has decided in general their end game no longer matters for the bottom line. U35 is the beginning of them distancing themselves from end game PVE players. U35 was the clear signal from ZOS that those players no longer matter to them.
Join the club. Us end game PVP players have been here for years. Weve made the club as cosy as we could with the little we are given but theres no glamor or love to be found here.
Respectfully, this is flat out wrong. PVP isn't dead. Most pvpers do both modes and just because you have separate gear doesn't mean other people don't use both.
Look at live NBs.
Ignore oak for a moment. Many were running Caluurions, deadlands and Selene's. All PvE sets. I'm not running that but I'm also running PvE sets. The same is true of most other builds. Not a lot of sets that are PVP sourced are very useful in 2022.
Yes they've added certain sets that have conditions, which is great, because they simply wouldn't function well otherwise. Rallying Cry would be stupidly ridiculous in PvE.
The reason they aren't pumping out PVP content has nothing to do with them not caring about PVP. They are currently in the midst of a complete rewrite of the server code specifically to fix PVP performance, a very large undertaking. When they announced this they told everyone they will not be developing PVP content until it's done since the server can't handle the current content. Maybe you weren't aware of this?
Meanwhile they've completed the hardware refresh on PC and are working on console. Again to help PVP just as much if not more than PvE.
Didnt say PVP was dead. Its not what it used to be but it still has a population that enjoy it. It just doesnt feel like ZOS does anything outside of balance or addressing performance issues for PVP. By and large, most of their attention is towards PVE and PVP is always second. Which is fine.
Having played games which were MMOs and PVP motivated like Albion Online, you can clearly notice the difference when PVP is a high priority by developers and when it isnt.
Now, my main point was that the majority of ZOS attention is on their bottom line. The majority of the game is casual players. They dont end game pve or pvp which i also consider end game. It makes sense financially, yes.
I guess when your the minority in any game, you will usually get the least attention by developers. Cant really blame ZOS for catering to the majority of their playerbase.
Forgive me but fixing performance issues in Cyrodil which has been an issue for years is not ZOS giving it a high priority imo like you suggest. If it was a high priority it would have been fixed years ago.
I explained why there hasn't been any new PVP expansion as announced by them. And every game maker is focused on the bottom line. Otherwise you can't make and sustain the game.
I'm glad I'm not a developer. Reading this board over the last 4 weeks is really eye opening on how difficult it is to both make necessary updates to the game and also making players happy who don't want change.
Yeah and i pointed out thats been an issue for YEARS. Theyve known of it for years... saying you cant introduce new content because your servers are unstable for pvp and have been that way for many years is not a reasonable excuse, nor does it any way suggest PVP was ever a high priority for ZOS.
Do you think that situation would have allowed to remain in the game for years if it was a single map for PVE content like perhaps Grahtwood where the game is unplayable? Nah.
Anyways, seems like Cyrodil is fine these days for performanceEdited by ThirdEye_PULSE on August 18, 2022 2:37PM1 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭Billium813 wrote: »The reason they aren't pumping out PVP content has nothing to do with them not caring about PVP. They are currently in the midst of a complete rewrite of the server code specifically to fix PVP performance, a very large undertaking. When they announced this they told everyone they will not be developing PVP content until it's done since the server can't handle the current content. Maybe you weren't aware of this?
Is it confirmed that they are still doing that? I thought they upgraded the hardware from the old 2012 stuff, everything started running much better, so they abandoned that effort and gave a "well, it turns out it was a hardware issue everybody!" statement
What do you mean by confirmed? They announced this earlier this year with a end date of Q4 which is between November and Feb, I believe. I don't have a super spy in Maryland to confirm progress is being made. 😆ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Snip.....
It's pleasent having a mature conversation. Thank you.
You raise some valid points about the PvP for sure. Fighting the meta would indeed be a difficult endeavor. The way you laid that argument out was well put together.
Combating this specifically is a difficult job considering sets are used interchangeably between PvE and PvP. An off the cuff thought would be to segregate PvE sets from PvP sets. This isn't thought out by any means, but, what if there were two combat systems? That could be expanded into having PvP sets just for PvP and PvE sets just for PvE. I find the thought of that to be quite interesting to be honest. I feel it would be ideal for combat adjustments in either environment. Hmmmmm. What's your thought on that?
The first issue with that is now you have to farm even more sets. Right now there are dozens of sets that work perfectly fine in both. I have a dark convergence tank for non-HM vet PvE content, for example.
By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.
The second issue is there just isn't an economic way for them to develop two separate game modes. The sheer amount of money they spend now is solely covered by ESO+ and crown store purchases. How are they supposed to support two large teams to tackle PvE and pvp separately?
Hmm. I have sets for pvp and sets for pve. Completely seperate for me. The traits are completely different that you need for both game modes.
They actually have started making sets for just pvp. Rallying Cry. 5th line only works while battle spirit is active.
You dont have to worry about them developing two different game modes. Pvp and pvp players in general have been on life support in this game for many years. Long ago they stopped making any real deveopments or new content for PVP. Its just not a priority for ZOS. I enjoy the PVP in ESO but i dont have any hope ZOS will ever give us any new content.
Seems ZOS has decided in general their end game no longer matters for the bottom line. U35 is the beginning of them distancing themselves from end game PVE players. U35 was the clear signal from ZOS that those players no longer matter to them.
Join the club. Us end game PVP players have been here for years. Weve made the club as cosy as we could with the little we are given but theres no glamor or love to be found here.
Respectfully, this is flat out wrong. PVP isn't dead. Most pvpers do both modes and just because you have separate gear doesn't mean other people don't use both.
Look at live NBs.
Ignore oak for a moment. Many were running Caluurions, deadlands and Selene's. All PvE sets. I'm not running that but I'm also running PvE sets. The same is true of most other builds. Not a lot of sets that are PVP sourced are very useful in 2022.
Yes they've added certain sets that have conditions, which is great, because they simply wouldn't function well otherwise. Rallying Cry would be stupidly ridiculous in PvE.
The reason they aren't pumping out PVP content has nothing to do with them not caring about PVP. They are currently in the midst of a complete rewrite of the server code specifically to fix PVP performance, a very large undertaking. When they announced this they told everyone they will not be developing PVP content until it's done since the server can't handle the current content. Maybe you weren't aware of this?
Meanwhile they've completed the hardware refresh on PC and are working on console. Again to help PVP just as much if not more than PvE.
Didnt say PVP was dead. Its not what it used to be but it still has a population that enjoy it. It just doesnt feel like ZOS does anything outside of balance or addressing performance issues for PVP. By and large, most of their attention is towards PVE and PVP is always second. Which is fine.
Having played games which were MMOs and PVP motivated like Albion Online, you can clearly notice the difference when PVP is a high priority by developers and when it isnt.
Now, my main point was that the majority of ZOS attention is on their bottom line. The majority of the game is casual players. They dont end game pve or pvp which i also consider end game. It makes sense financially, yes.
I guess when your the minority in any game, you will usually get the least attention by developers. Cant really blame ZOS for catering to the majority of their playerbase.
Forgive me but fixing performance issues in Cyrodil which has been an issue for years is not ZOS giving it a high priority imo like you suggest. If it was a high priority it would have been fixed years ago.
I explained why there hasn't been any new PVP expansion as announced by them. And every game maker is focused on the bottom line. Otherwise you can't make and sustain the game.
I'm glad I'm not a developer. Reading this board over the last 4 weeks is really eye opening on how difficult it is to both make necessary updates to the game and also making players happy who don't want change.
Yeah and i pointed out thats been an issue for YEARS. Theyve known of it for years... saying you cant introduce new content because your servers are unstable for pvp and have been that way for many years is not a reasonable excuse, nor does it any way suggest PVP was ever a high priority for ZOS.
Do you think that situation would have allowed to remain in the game for years if it was a single map for PVE content like perhaps Grahtwood where the game is unplayable? Nah.
Anyways, seems like Cyrodil is fine these days for performance
Oh they competely made the mistake of trying to accomplish better performance with, what it feels like, minimum effort and cost. Rewriting the code is likely costing a pretty penny. So that is totally on the decision makers, but also remember that they might not have been able to do it in 2020 or 2021 due to covid.
Cyrodiil is not great on console but we've not gotten the hardware refresh. I don't always stream at night because I don't want to showcase lag.I drink and I stream things.0 -
ThirdEye_PULSE✭✭✭✭Billium813 wrote: »The reason they aren't pumping out PVP content has nothing to do with them not caring about PVP. They are currently in the midst of a complete rewrite of the server code specifically to fix PVP performance, a very large undertaking. When they announced this they told everyone they will not be developing PVP content until it's done since the server can't handle the current content. Maybe you weren't aware of this?
Is it confirmed that they are still doing that? I thought they upgraded the hardware from the old 2012 stuff, everything started running much better, so they abandoned that effort and gave a "well, it turns out it was a hardware issue everybody!" statement
What do you mean by confirmed? They announced this earlier this year with a end date of Q4 which is between November and Feb, I believe. I don't have a super spy in Maryland to confirm progress is being made. 😆ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Snip.....
It's pleasent having a mature conversation. Thank you.
You raise some valid points about the PvP for sure. Fighting the meta would indeed be a difficult endeavor. The way you laid that argument out was well put together.
Combating this specifically is a difficult job considering sets are used interchangeably between PvE and PvP. An off the cuff thought would be to segregate PvE sets from PvP sets. This isn't thought out by any means, but, what if there were two combat systems? That could be expanded into having PvP sets just for PvP and PvE sets just for PvE. I find the thought of that to be quite interesting to be honest. I feel it would be ideal for combat adjustments in either environment. Hmmmmm. What's your thought on that?
The first issue with that is now you have to farm even more sets. Right now there are dozens of sets that work perfectly fine in both. I have a dark convergence tank for non-HM vet PvE content, for example.
By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.
The second issue is there just isn't an economic way for them to develop two separate game modes. The sheer amount of money they spend now is solely covered by ESO+ and crown store purchases. How are they supposed to support two large teams to tackle PvE and pvp separately?
Hmm. I have sets for pvp and sets for pve. Completely seperate for me. The traits are completely different that you need for both game modes.
They actually have started making sets for just pvp. Rallying Cry. 5th line only works while battle spirit is active.
You dont have to worry about them developing two different game modes. Pvp and pvp players in general have been on life support in this game for many years. Long ago they stopped making any real deveopments or new content for PVP. Its just not a priority for ZOS. I enjoy the PVP in ESO but i dont have any hope ZOS will ever give us any new content.
Seems ZOS has decided in general their end game no longer matters for the bottom line. U35 is the beginning of them distancing themselves from end game PVE players. U35 was the clear signal from ZOS that those players no longer matter to them.
Join the club. Us end game PVP players have been here for years. Weve made the club as cosy as we could with the little we are given but theres no glamor or love to be found here.
Respectfully, this is flat out wrong. PVP isn't dead. Most pvpers do both modes and just because you have separate gear doesn't mean other people don't use both.
Look at live NBs.
Ignore oak for a moment. Many were running Caluurions, deadlands and Selene's. All PvE sets. I'm not running that but I'm also running PvE sets. The same is true of most other builds. Not a lot of sets that are PVP sourced are very useful in 2022.
Yes they've added certain sets that have conditions, which is great, because they simply wouldn't function well otherwise. Rallying Cry would be stupidly ridiculous in PvE.
The reason they aren't pumping out PVP content has nothing to do with them not caring about PVP. They are currently in the midst of a complete rewrite of the server code specifically to fix PVP performance, a very large undertaking. When they announced this they told everyone they will not be developing PVP content until it's done since the server can't handle the current content. Maybe you weren't aware of this?
Meanwhile they've completed the hardware refresh on PC and are working on console. Again to help PVP just as much if not more than PvE.
Didnt say PVP was dead. Its not what it used to be but it still has a population that enjoy it. It just doesnt feel like ZOS does anything outside of balance or addressing performance issues for PVP. By and large, most of their attention is towards PVE and PVP is always second. Which is fine.
Having played games which were MMOs and PVP motivated like Albion Online, you can clearly notice the difference when PVP is a high priority by developers and when it isnt.
Now, my main point was that the majority of ZOS attention is on their bottom line. The majority of the game is casual players. They dont end game pve or pvp which i also consider end game. It makes sense financially, yes.
I guess when your the minority in any game, you will usually get the least attention by developers. Cant really blame ZOS for catering to the majority of their playerbase.
Forgive me but fixing performance issues in Cyrodil which has been an issue for years is not ZOS giving it a high priority imo like you suggest. If it was a high priority it would have been fixed years ago.
I explained why there hasn't been any new PVP expansion as announced by them. And every game maker is focused on the bottom line. Otherwise you can't make and sustain the game.
I'm glad I'm not a developer. Reading this board over the last 4 weeks is really eye opening on how difficult it is to both make necessary updates to the game and also making players happy who don't want change.
Yeah and i pointed out thats been an issue for YEARS. Theyve known of it for years... saying you cant introduce new content because your servers are unstable for pvp and have been that way for many years is not a reasonable excuse, nor does it any way suggest PVP was ever a high priority for ZOS.
Do you think that situation would have allowed to remain in the game for years if it was a single map for PVE content like perhaps Grahtwood where the game is unplayable? Nah.
Anyways, seems like Cyrodil is fine these days for performance
Oh they competely made the mistake of trying to accomplish better performance with, what it feels like, minimum effort and cost. Rewriting the code is likely costing a pretty penny. So that is totally on the decision makers, but also remember that they might not have been able to do it in 2020 or 2021 due to covid.
Cyrodiil is not great on console but we've not gotten the hardware refresh. I don't always stream at night because I don't want to showcase lag.
True. I was a ps4 console player over two years ago before i built my computer. I played for 2 years on ps4. So 2018-2020 on console. It was awful. I couldnt do cyrodil just too much lag so i did BGS. But id often get DC'ed at least like 5x a night lol.
1 -
Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭Billium813 wrote: »The reason they aren't pumping out PVP content has nothing to do with them not caring about PVP. They are currently in the midst of a complete rewrite of the server code specifically to fix PVP performance, a very large undertaking. When they announced this they told everyone they will not be developing PVP content until it's done since the server can't handle the current content. Maybe you weren't aware of this?
Is it confirmed that they are still doing that? I thought they upgraded the hardware from the old 2012 stuff, everything started running much better, so they abandoned that effort and gave a "well, it turns out it was a hardware issue everybody!" statement
What do you mean by confirmed? They announced this earlier this year with a end date of Q4 which is between November and Feb, I believe. I don't have a super spy in Maryland to confirm progress is being made. 😆
You don't have to be quite so hyperbolic. From my recollection, they announced that they would be dedicating their PvP efforts this year to fixing the spaghetti code. But then they updated the hardware like 2 months later and everyone seemed to rejoice over vastly improved performance. There were articles and youtube vids about the return to PvP and way better performance! I don't feel like I heared anything too bad about performance during the recent Whitestrake's Mayhem event. Did they say they would continue with working on PvP performance? Have we heard anything on the topic in 8 months? I wouldn't be surprised if they dusted their hands of the issue since most of the performance outcries appear to be sated by the hardware updates in Q1.1 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Billium813 wrote: »The reason they aren't pumping out PVP content has nothing to do with them not caring about PVP. They are currently in the midst of a complete rewrite of the server code specifically to fix PVP performance, a very large undertaking. When they announced this they told everyone they will not be developing PVP content until it's done since the server can't handle the current content. Maybe you weren't aware of this?
Is it confirmed that they are still doing that? I thought they upgraded the hardware from the old 2012 stuff, everything started running much better, so they abandoned that effort and gave a "well, it turns out it was a hardware issue everybody!" statement
What do you mean by confirmed? They announced this earlier this year with a end date of Q4 which is between November and Feb, I believe. I don't have a super spy in Maryland to confirm progress is being made. 😆ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Snip.....
It's pleasent having a mature conversation. Thank you.
You raise some valid points about the PvP for sure. Fighting the meta would indeed be a difficult endeavor. The way you laid that argument out was well put together.
Combating this specifically is a difficult job considering sets are used interchangeably between PvE and PvP. An off the cuff thought would be to segregate PvE sets from PvP sets. This isn't thought out by any means, but, what if there were two combat systems? That could be expanded into having PvP sets just for PvP and PvE sets just for PvE. I find the thought of that to be quite interesting to be honest. I feel it would be ideal for combat adjustments in either environment. Hmmmmm. What's your thought on that?
The first issue with that is now you have to farm even more sets. Right now there are dozens of sets that work perfectly fine in both. I have a dark convergence tank for non-HM vet PvE content, for example.
By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.
The second issue is there just isn't an economic way for them to develop two separate game modes. The sheer amount of money they spend now is solely covered by ESO+ and crown store purchases. How are they supposed to support two large teams to tackle PvE and pvp separately?
Hmm. I have sets for pvp and sets for pve. Completely seperate for me. The traits are completely different that you need for both game modes.
They actually have started making sets for just pvp. Rallying Cry. 5th line only works while battle spirit is active.
You dont have to worry about them developing two different game modes. Pvp and pvp players in general have been on life support in this game for many years. Long ago they stopped making any real deveopments or new content for PVP. Its just not a priority for ZOS. I enjoy the PVP in ESO but i dont have any hope ZOS will ever give us any new content.
Seems ZOS has decided in general their end game no longer matters for the bottom line. U35 is the beginning of them distancing themselves from end game PVE players. U35 was the clear signal from ZOS that those players no longer matter to them.
Join the club. Us end game PVP players have been here for years. Weve made the club as cosy as we could with the little we are given but theres no glamor or love to be found here.
Respectfully, this is flat out wrong. PVP isn't dead. Most pvpers do both modes and just because you have separate gear doesn't mean other people don't use both.
Look at live NBs.
Ignore oak for a moment. Many were running Caluurions, deadlands and Selene's. All PvE sets. I'm not running that but I'm also running PvE sets. The same is true of most other builds. Not a lot of sets that are PVP sourced are very useful in 2022.
Yes they've added certain sets that have conditions, which is great, because they simply wouldn't function well otherwise. Rallying Cry would be stupidly ridiculous in PvE.
The reason they aren't pumping out PVP content has nothing to do with them not caring about PVP. They are currently in the midst of a complete rewrite of the server code specifically to fix PVP performance, a very large undertaking. When they announced this they told everyone they will not be developing PVP content until it's done since the server can't handle the current content. Maybe you weren't aware of this?
Meanwhile they've completed the hardware refresh on PC and are working on console. Again to help PVP just as much if not more than PvE.
Didnt say PVP was dead. Its not what it used to be but it still has a population that enjoy it. It just doesnt feel like ZOS does anything outside of balance or addressing performance issues for PVP. By and large, most of their attention is towards PVE and PVP is always second. Which is fine.
Having played games which were MMOs and PVP motivated like Albion Online, you can clearly notice the difference when PVP is a high priority by developers and when it isnt.
Now, my main point was that the majority of ZOS attention is on their bottom line. The majority of the game is casual players. They dont end game pve or pvp which i also consider end game. It makes sense financially, yes.
I guess when your the minority in any game, you will usually get the least attention by developers. Cant really blame ZOS for catering to the majority of their playerbase.
Forgive me but fixing performance issues in Cyrodil which has been an issue for years is not ZOS giving it a high priority imo like you suggest. If it was a high priority it would have been fixed years ago.
I explained why there hasn't been any new PVP expansion as announced by them. And every game maker is focused on the bottom line. Otherwise you can't make and sustain the game.
I'm glad I'm not a developer. Reading this board over the last 4 weeks is really eye opening on how difficult it is to both make necessary updates to the game and also making players happy who don't want change.
Yeah and i pointed out thats been an issue for YEARS. Theyve known of it for years... saying you cant introduce new content because your servers are unstable for pvp and have been that way for many years is not a reasonable excuse, nor does it any way suggest PVP was ever a high priority for ZOS.
Do you think that situation would have allowed to remain in the game for years if it was a single map for PVE content like perhaps Grahtwood where the game is unplayable? Nah.
Anyways, seems like Cyrodil is fine these days for performance
Oh they competely made the mistake of trying to accomplish better performance with, what it feels like, minimum effort and cost. Rewriting the code is likely costing a pretty penny. So that is totally on the decision makers, but also remember that they might not have been able to do it in 2020 or 2021 due to covid.
Cyrodiil is not great on console but we've not gotten the hardware refresh. I don't always stream at night because I don't want to showcase lag.
TBH, they only really started paying attention to performance issues when those issues started leaking out of Cyrodiil and into PvE.
When it was only a Cyro issue that only bothered PvP players nobody much seemed to care but when people's Sunspire runs breaking down and even casual Overland questing in Glenumbra became impacted that's when it finally became a priority.0 -
Caribou77✭✭✭✭✭Irritating, awkward, clumsy.
That’s how the update feels.
Mara’s Balm will wreck PVP as bad as when Dark Convergence first came out, and I quit playing for two months.
Essentially, I would like a fine-tuning approach to updates. If MagDK was a bit overpowered in PVP (so 80% of BGs are now DKs), make that the gold standard and slowly adjust the other classes up to where they are closely on par, rather than nerfing DKs DOTs.
The changes to Deep Fissure and Advanced Species absolutely gutted the weakest PVP class, MagWarden.
I cannot fathom the logic behind nerfing MagWarden. Blunders like this and Maras Balm and slowing down dot damage make this update pretty rough and novice to me. Like whoever was in charge of those changes does not know the game well.
4 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭Billium813 wrote: »Billium813 wrote: »The reason they aren't pumping out PVP content has nothing to do with them not caring about PVP. They are currently in the midst of a complete rewrite of the server code specifically to fix PVP performance, a very large undertaking. When they announced this they told everyone they will not be developing PVP content until it's done since the server can't handle the current content. Maybe you weren't aware of this?
Is it confirmed that they are still doing that? I thought they upgraded the hardware from the old 2012 stuff, everything started running much better, so they abandoned that effort and gave a "well, it turns out it was a hardware issue everybody!" statement
What do you mean by confirmed? They announced this earlier this year with a end date of Q4 which is between November and Feb, I believe. I don't have a super spy in Maryland to confirm progress is being made. 😆
You don't have to be quite so hyperbolic. From my recollection, they announced that they would be dedicating their PvP efforts this year to fixing the spaghetti code. But then they updated the hardware like 2 months later and everyone seemed to rejoice over vastly improved performance. There were articles and youtube vids about the return to PvP and way better performance! I don't feel like I heared anything too bad about performance during the recent Whitestrake's Mayhem event. Did they say they would continue with working on PvP performance? Have we heard anything on the topic in 8 months? I wouldn't be surprised if they dusted their hands of the issue since most of the performance outcries appear to be sated by the hardware updates in Q1.
You may not recall that they specifically stated not to expect any performance boost by the hardware refresh, as it was simply replacing hardware that was on its last leg. Any performance boost is a happy coincidence but is not the same as rewriting 8 year old code that can't handle all the updates that have occurred over the years.YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Billium813 wrote: »The reason they aren't pumping out PVP content has nothing to do with them not caring about PVP. They are currently in the midst of a complete rewrite of the server code specifically to fix PVP performance, a very large undertaking. When they announced this they told everyone they will not be developing PVP content until it's done since the server can't handle the current content. Maybe you weren't aware of this?
Is it confirmed that they are still doing that? I thought they upgraded the hardware from the old 2012 stuff, everything started running much better, so they abandoned that effort and gave a "well, it turns out it was a hardware issue everybody!" statement
What do you mean by confirmed? They announced this earlier this year with a end date of Q4 which is between November and Feb, I believe. I don't have a super spy in Maryland to confirm progress is being made. 😆ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Snip.....
It's pleasent having a mature conversation. Thank you.
You raise some valid points about the PvP for sure. Fighting the meta would indeed be a difficult endeavor. The way you laid that argument out was well put together.
Combating this specifically is a difficult job considering sets are used interchangeably between PvE and PvP. An off the cuff thought would be to segregate PvE sets from PvP sets. This isn't thought out by any means, but, what if there were two combat systems? That could be expanded into having PvP sets just for PvP and PvE sets just for PvE. I find the thought of that to be quite interesting to be honest. I feel it would be ideal for combat adjustments in either environment. Hmmmmm. What's your thought on that?
The first issue with that is now you have to farm even more sets. Right now there are dozens of sets that work perfectly fine in both. I have a dark convergence tank for non-HM vet PvE content, for example.
By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.
The second issue is there just isn't an economic way for them to develop two separate game modes. The sheer amount of money they spend now is solely covered by ESO+ and crown store purchases. How are they supposed to support two large teams to tackle PvE and pvp separately?
Hmm. I have sets for pvp and sets for pve. Completely seperate for me. The traits are completely different that you need for both game modes.
They actually have started making sets for just pvp. Rallying Cry. 5th line only works while battle spirit is active.
You dont have to worry about them developing two different game modes. Pvp and pvp players in general have been on life support in this game for many years. Long ago they stopped making any real deveopments or new content for PVP. Its just not a priority for ZOS. I enjoy the PVP in ESO but i dont have any hope ZOS will ever give us any new content.
Seems ZOS has decided in general their end game no longer matters for the bottom line. U35 is the beginning of them distancing themselves from end game PVE players. U35 was the clear signal from ZOS that those players no longer matter to them.
Join the club. Us end game PVP players have been here for years. Weve made the club as cosy as we could with the little we are given but theres no glamor or love to be found here.
Respectfully, this is flat out wrong. PVP isn't dead. Most pvpers do both modes and just because you have separate gear doesn't mean other people don't use both.
Look at live NBs.
Ignore oak for a moment. Many were running Caluurions, deadlands and Selene's. All PvE sets. I'm not running that but I'm also running PvE sets. The same is true of most other builds. Not a lot of sets that are PVP sourced are very useful in 2022.
Yes they've added certain sets that have conditions, which is great, because they simply wouldn't function well otherwise. Rallying Cry would be stupidly ridiculous in PvE.
The reason they aren't pumping out PVP content has nothing to do with them not caring about PVP. They are currently in the midst of a complete rewrite of the server code specifically to fix PVP performance, a very large undertaking. When they announced this they told everyone they will not be developing PVP content until it's done since the server can't handle the current content. Maybe you weren't aware of this?
Meanwhile they've completed the hardware refresh on PC and are working on console. Again to help PVP just as much if not more than PvE.
Didnt say PVP was dead. Its not what it used to be but it still has a population that enjoy it. It just doesnt feel like ZOS does anything outside of balance or addressing performance issues for PVP. By and large, most of their attention is towards PVE and PVP is always second. Which is fine.
Having played games which were MMOs and PVP motivated like Albion Online, you can clearly notice the difference when PVP is a high priority by developers and when it isnt.
Now, my main point was that the majority of ZOS attention is on their bottom line. The majority of the game is casual players. They dont end game pve or pvp which i also consider end game. It makes sense financially, yes.
I guess when your the minority in any game, you will usually get the least attention by developers. Cant really blame ZOS for catering to the majority of their playerbase.
Forgive me but fixing performance issues in Cyrodil which has been an issue for years is not ZOS giving it a high priority imo like you suggest. If it was a high priority it would have been fixed years ago.
I explained why there hasn't been any new PVP expansion as announced by them. And every game maker is focused on the bottom line. Otherwise you can't make and sustain the game.
I'm glad I'm not a developer. Reading this board over the last 4 weeks is really eye opening on how difficult it is to both make necessary updates to the game and also making players happy who don't want change.
Yeah and i pointed out thats been an issue for YEARS. Theyve known of it for years... saying you cant introduce new content because your servers are unstable for pvp and have been that way for many years is not a reasonable excuse, nor does it any way suggest PVP was ever a high priority for ZOS.
Do you think that situation would have allowed to remain in the game for years if it was a single map for PVE content like perhaps Grahtwood where the game is unplayable? Nah.
Anyways, seems like Cyrodil is fine these days for performance
Oh they competely made the mistake of trying to accomplish better performance with, what it feels like, minimum effort and cost. Rewriting the code is likely costing a pretty penny. So that is totally on the decision makers, but also remember that they might not have been able to do it in 2020 or 2021 due to covid.
Cyrodiil is not great on console but we've not gotten the hardware refresh. I don't always stream at night because I don't want to showcase lag.
TBH, they only really started paying attention to performance issues when those issues started leaking out of Cyrodiil and into PvE.
When it was only a Cyro issue that only bothered PvP players nobody much seemed to care but when people's Sunspire runs breaking down and even casual Overland questing in Glenumbra became impacted that's when it finally became a priority.
The only trial skin I don't have is gold because every time my team tried to do HoF we would have mass disconnects at the spider or triplets. We eventually just gave up and moved on to vAS.
So I wasn't trying to suggest there aren't issues in PvE too.I drink and I stream things.1 -
ThirdEye_PULSE✭✭✭✭Irritating, awkward, clumsy.
That’s how the update feels.
Mara’s Balm will wreck PVP as bad as when Dark Convergence first came out, and I quit playing for two months.
Essentially, I would like a fine-tuning approach to updates. If MagDK was a bit overpowered in PVP (so 80% of BGs are now DKs), make that the gold standard and slowly adjust the other classes up to where they are closely on par, rather than nerfing DKs DOTs.
The changes to Deep Fissure and Advanced Species absolutely gutted the weakest PVP class, MagWarden.
I cannot fathom the logic behind nerfing MagWarden. Blunders like this and Maras Balm and slowing down dot damage make this update pretty rough and novice to me. Like whoever was in charge of those changes does not know the game well.
Well the DoT nerf was universal. I think its so drastic that we will see many builds next patch dropping sticky DoTs if it doesnt offer any benefit outside of damage or synergy with your set.(pvp only) DK kinda got short straw though considering most of its toolkit is DoTs and the class is built around using that pressure to secure kills.
However, many people that have parsed are saying DK DoTs are not as effected as other DoTs. I cant verify or deny this. Logic tells me that DKs should really be hurt with U35. Yet people are theorycrafting meta for u35 and saying DK 2nd place below NB.
Yes. I feel bad for warden. Its got a special place in my heart as my old main. I hate watching on the sidelines seeing what has happened to the class that used to be considered ZOS darling class. People used to say Warden never got nerfs because it was a p2w class lol. Look at them now.Edited by ThirdEye_PULSE on August 19, 2022 11:13AM1 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Irritating, awkward, clumsy.
That’s how the update feels.
Mara’s Balm will wreck PVP as bad as when Dark Convergence first came out, and I quit playing for two months.
Essentially, I would like a fine-tuning approach to updates. If MagDK was a bit overpowered in PVP (so 80% of BGs are now DKs), make that the gold standard and slowly adjust the other classes up to where they are closely on par, rather than nerfing DKs DOTs.
The changes to Deep Fissure and Advanced Species absolutely gutted the weakest PVP class, MagWarden.
I cannot fathom the logic behind nerfing MagWarden. Blunders like this and Maras Balm and slowing down dot damage make this update pretty rough and novice to me. Like whoever was in charge of those changes does not know the game well.
Well the DoT nerf was universal. I think its so drastic that we will see many builds next patch dropping sticky DoTs if it doesnt offer any benefit outside of damage or synergy with your set. DK kinda got short straw though considering most of its toolkit is DoTs and the class is built around using that pressure to secure kills.
However, many people that have parsed are saying DK DoTs are not as effected as other DoTs. I cant verify or deny this. Logic tells me that DKs should really be hurt with U35. Yet people are theorycrafting meta for u35 and saying DK 2nd place below NB.
Yes. I feel bad for warden. Its got a special place in my heart as my old main. I hate watching on the sidelines seeing what has happened to the class that used to be considered ZOS darling class. People used to say Warden never got nerfs because it was a p2w class lol. Look at them now.
Well, it is just that DK ate less nerfs than Sorc, Warden, Templar and Necro, surprisingly unlike in the past.Edited by IZZEFlameLash on August 19, 2022 11:09AMImperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
ThirdEye_PULSE✭✭✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Irritating, awkward, clumsy.
That’s how the update feels.
Mara’s Balm will wreck PVP as bad as when Dark Convergence first came out, and I quit playing for two months.
Essentially, I would like a fine-tuning approach to updates. If MagDK was a bit overpowered in PVP (so 80% of BGs are now DKs), make that the gold standard and slowly adjust the other classes up to where they are closely on par, rather than nerfing DKs DOTs.
The changes to Deep Fissure and Advanced Species absolutely gutted the weakest PVP class, MagWarden.
I cannot fathom the logic behind nerfing MagWarden. Blunders like this and Maras Balm and slowing down dot damage make this update pretty rough and novice to me. Like whoever was in charge of those changes does not know the game well.
Well the DoT nerf was universal. I think its so drastic that we will see many builds next patch dropping sticky DoTs if it doesnt offer any benefit outside of damage or synergy with your set. DK kinda got short straw though considering most of its toolkit is DoTs and the class is built around using that pressure to secure kills.
However, many people that have parsed are saying DK DoTs are not as effected as other DoTs. I cant verify or deny this. Logic tells me that DKs should really be hurt with U35. Yet people are theorycrafting meta for u35 and saying DK 2nd place below NB.
Yes. I feel bad for warden. Its got a special place in my heart as my old main. I hate watching on the sidelines seeing what has happened to the class that used to be considered ZOS darling class. People used to say Warden never got nerfs because it was a p2w class lol. Look at them now.
Well, it is just that DK ate less nerfs than Sorc, Warden, Templar and Necro, surprisingly unlike in the past.
Lol yeah. They nerfed so many classes that even though DK main source of dmg took a substantial nerf its still fine. Relatively speaking.
NBs are gonna be a menace to society next patch for PVP tho. Ive noticed after PTS week 5 the composition of BG teams has started changing to what people plan on playing next update.
A LOT more NBS. Seems like every team has 1-3 of them. Was having a battle yesterday and 3 nightblades were circling the battle popping in and out of stealth. Each time they popped out someone would fall dead nearly instantly lol. Thinking about finding a place on my skill bar for camo hunter or the magelight. Its nearly guaranteed kill once you force them out of stealth like a fish out of water.
Dont see as many templars or stamsorcs.
See more Wardens. Which is interesting. I suppose some of the buffs they got really gonna help them. Not sure if it outweighs the nerfs but i would be happy if i could dust off my warden for next patch.
Gonna be interesting to see where the meta falls next patch. Obviously NBs are gonna be king. Gonna have to start building super tanky to deal with all of them. Prolly gonna be a really stale patch for PvP.Edited by ThirdEye_PULSE on August 19, 2022 11:26AM2 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Irritating, awkward, clumsy.
That’s how the update feels.
Mara’s Balm will wreck PVP as bad as when Dark Convergence first came out, and I quit playing for two months.
Essentially, I would like a fine-tuning approach to updates. If MagDK was a bit overpowered in PVP (so 80% of BGs are now DKs), make that the gold standard and slowly adjust the other classes up to where they are closely on par, rather than nerfing DKs DOTs.
The changes to Deep Fissure and Advanced Species absolutely gutted the weakest PVP class, MagWarden.
I cannot fathom the logic behind nerfing MagWarden. Blunders like this and Maras Balm and slowing down dot damage make this update pretty rough and novice to me. Like whoever was in charge of those changes does not know the game well.
Well the DoT nerf was universal. I think its so drastic that we will see many builds next patch dropping sticky DoTs if it doesnt offer any benefit outside of damage or synergy with your set. DK kinda got short straw though considering most of its toolkit is DoTs and the class is built around using that pressure to secure kills.
However, many people that have parsed are saying DK DoTs are not as effected as other DoTs. I cant verify or deny this. Logic tells me that DKs should really be hurt with U35. Yet people are theorycrafting meta for u35 and saying DK 2nd place below NB.
Yes. I feel bad for warden. Its got a special place in my heart as my old main. I hate watching on the sidelines seeing what has happened to the class that used to be considered ZOS darling class. People used to say Warden never got nerfs because it was a p2w class lol. Look at them now.
Well, it is just that DK ate less nerfs than Sorc, Warden, Templar and Necro, surprisingly unlike in the past.
Lol yeah. They nerfed so many classes that even though DK main source of dmg took a substantial nerf its still fine. Relatively speaking.
NBs are gonna be a menace to society next patch for PVP tho. Ive noticed after PTS week 5 the composition of BG teams has started changing to what people plan on playing next update.
A LOT more NBS. Seems like every team has 1-3 of them. Was having a battle yesterday and 3 nightblades were circling the battle popping in and out of stealth. Each time they popped out someone would fall dead nearly instantly lol. Thinking about finding a place on my skill bar for camo hunter or the magelight. Its nearly guaranteed kill once you force them out of stealth like a fish out of water.
Dont see as many templars or stamsorcs.
See more Wardens. Which is interesting. I suppose some of the buffs they got really gonna help them. Not sure if it outweighs the nerfs but i would be happy if i could dust off my warden for next patch.
Gonna be interesting to see where the meta falls next patch. Obviously NBs are gonna be king. Gonna have to start building super tanky to deal with all of them. Prolly gonna be a really stale patch for PvP.
A lot of people stopped playing NB during the DK meta. A portion returned to play oak. You have to understand the context. A year ago they started instituting changes that were either direct or indirect nerfs to the class. You had skills altered. The small list of prices sets usable from stealth limited to just a couple while every other class got more. Detect skills buffed. New CP to make it easier to catch us and defend against us. Max crit damage nerf. Crit % nerf. Etc.
We also have the worst sustain out of the box of all classes.
If you're a stealth blade your entire offense is live or die in under 4 seconds after hitting four buff skills, all of which are expensive.
Then you had NB players who didn't want to play oakensoul just decide not to play the class because 2 bar NBs are significantly behind 1 bar on live.
Despite the nerf to Caluurions and the indecisive actions on SA, a lot of classic NB players are looking forward to playing the class again. So I would expect to see an uptick with the class for as least a couple weeks. But keep in mind most NB players play other classes, so I think the population with balance.
Point being, what damage boost you'll get from concealed weapon still won't make up for the 12k recap you can get from Caluurions, which on live is still the go to for your average a NB.
Work together with your team. Have someone on NB duty. I know this annoys some to have to strat for one class but my sympathy is low. I've had to have a DK centric attack style since October. 🙃I drink and I stream things.1 -
ThirdEye_PULSE✭✭✭✭ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »Irritating, awkward, clumsy.
That’s how the update feels.
Mara’s Balm will wreck PVP as bad as when Dark Convergence first came out, and I quit playing for two months.
Essentially, I would like a fine-tuning approach to updates. If MagDK was a bit overpowered in PVP (so 80% of BGs are now DKs), make that the gold standard and slowly adjust the other classes up to where they are closely on par, rather than nerfing DKs DOTs.
The changes to Deep Fissure and Advanced Species absolutely gutted the weakest PVP class, MagWarden.
I cannot fathom the logic behind nerfing MagWarden. Blunders like this and Maras Balm and slowing down dot damage make this update pretty rough and novice to me. Like whoever was in charge of those changes does not know the game well.
Well the DoT nerf was universal. I think its so drastic that we will see many builds next patch dropping sticky DoTs if it doesnt offer any benefit outside of damage or synergy with your set. DK kinda got short straw though considering most of its toolkit is DoTs and the class is built around using that pressure to secure kills.
However, many people that have parsed are saying DK DoTs are not as effected as other DoTs. I cant verify or deny this. Logic tells me that DKs should really be hurt with U35. Yet people are theorycrafting meta for u35 and saying DK 2nd place below NB.
Yes. I feel bad for warden. Its got a special place in my heart as my old main. I hate watching on the sidelines seeing what has happened to the class that used to be considered ZOS darling class. People used to say Warden never got nerfs because it was a p2w class lol. Look at them now.
Well, it is just that DK ate less nerfs than Sorc, Warden, Templar and Necro, surprisingly unlike in the past.
Lol yeah. They nerfed so many classes that even though DK main source of dmg took a substantial nerf its still fine. Relatively speaking.
NBs are gonna be a menace to society next patch for PVP tho. Ive noticed after PTS week 5 the composition of BG teams has started changing to what people plan on playing next update.
A LOT more NBS. Seems like every team has 1-3 of them. Was having a battle yesterday and 3 nightblades were circling the battle popping in and out of stealth. Each time they popped out someone would fall dead nearly instantly lol. Thinking about finding a place on my skill bar for camo hunter or the magelight. Its nearly guaranteed kill once you force them out of stealth like a fish out of water.
Dont see as many templars or stamsorcs.
See more Wardens. Which is interesting. I suppose some of the buffs they got really gonna help them. Not sure if it outweighs the nerfs but i would be happy if i could dust off my warden for next patch.
Gonna be interesting to see where the meta falls next patch. Obviously NBs are gonna be king. Gonna have to start building super tanky to deal with all of them. Prolly gonna be a really stale patch for PvP.
A lot of people stopped playing NB during the DK meta. A portion returned to play oak. You have to understand the context. A year ago they started instituting changes that were either direct or indirect nerfs to the class. You had skills altered. The small list of prices sets usable from stealth limited to just a couple while every other class got more. Detect skills buffed. New CP to make it easier to catch us and defend against us. Max crit damage nerf. Crit % nerf. Etc.
We also have the worst sustain out of the box of all classes.
If you're a stealth blade your entire offense is live or die in under 4 seconds after hitting four buff skills, all of which are expensive.
Then you had NB players who didn't want to play oakensoul just decide not to play the class because 2 bar NBs are significantly behind 1 bar on live.
Despite the nerf to Caluurions and the indecisive actions on SA, a lot of classic NB players are looking forward to playing the class again. So I would expect to see an uptick with the class for as least a couple weeks. But keep in mind most NB players play other classes, so I think the population with balance.
Point being, what damage boost you'll get from concealed weapon still won't make up for the 12k recap you can get from Caluurions, which on live is still the go to for your average a NB.
Work together with your team. Have someone on NB duty. I know this annoys some to have to strat for one class but my sympathy is low. I've had to have a DK centric attack style since October. 🙃
Yeah i dont hate NBs. Unique playstyle. Wish that brawler blades were as good as invis style of play. I love brawler builds for pvp.
I think what will put NB above and beyond all the other classes next patch is that it doesnt need to rely on sticky DoTs for pressure to secure kills. Does a lot of Direct Damage. Im not sure most classes will even use sticky dots for u35 in pvp. Will have to wait and see. DK will need too either way.
But yeah, if NBs take off next patch im definitely frontbarring camos hunter or magelight at all times. Anytime a NB starts interacting with me just activate the skill. Also nice passives.1 -
boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dunno if nightblades are going to be as well off in pvp as everyone thinks. With maras balm they won't be able to use typical combos to any great effect and tanky builds running it will crush em as they really only get a second or 2 to kill before getting wrecked and that just doesn't seem possible based on what I have seen with pts using that set. Idk. My magblade is my main and the only toon I use. I can say with certainty I will not be engaging in any pvp next patch.0 -
shadyjane62✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NB's will be legion. Better to take a break till they get nerfed.
Nothing more abhorrent than a NB in pvp.3 -
ThirdEye_PULSE✭✭✭✭boi_anachronism_ wrote: »Dunno if nightblades are going to be as well off in pvp as everyone thinks. With maras balm they won't be able to use typical combos to any great effect and tanky builds running it will crush em as they really only get a second or 2 to kill before getting wrecked and that just doesn't seem possible based on what I have seen with pts using that set. Idk. My magblade is my main and the only toon I use. I can say with certainty I will not be engaging in any pvp next patch.
Maras is a whole separate issue off the scales. If they release that live... idk man. Would be a bad omen for the future of this game. Bad enough they even designed those sets and thought it would be okay.2 -
Caribou77✭✭✭✭✭I’ve tried playing NB and just don’t enjoy the stealth/gank playing style. It doesn’t feel as dynamic and interactive as classes designed for longer dueling. I enjoy PVPing against a good opponent for long enough that there’s actually time for improvised/quick reactions to unique playing styles.
An ideal gank is using stealth and burst to kill someone before they can react (or so it seemed to me when I played NB). If your stealth-burst combo fails to nuke the opponent, you cloak, run away, and look for a squishy noob you can take out instantly.
It felt parasitic, to me.2
