Happy with the new patch

Drauz

With how easy the game is with alot of content i think its good the overall dps gets nerfed a bit.
Also happy about the oakensoul changes for pvp.

Ash_ShadowDragon

Drauz wrote: »

With how easy the game is with alot of content i think its good the overall dps gets nerfed a bit.
Also happy about the oakensoul changes for pvp.

I don't PvE, but sure DPS may of been nerfed... but Monster health has also been reduced so I'm not sure if its actually "Harder" of course I don't PvE so I don't really know, just assuming and going off what others have said.

As for the Oakensoul changes I do agree to some extent (may of been nerfed a little to much, will have to wait for it to go live), I did play 1 bar set ups for a bit, but honestly, they did get rather boring and stale. It would be cool if they added "these buffs (list of buffs) are only active when Battle spirit is inactive or active"

Billium813

Drauz wrote: »

With how easy the game is with alot of content i think its good the overall dps gets nerfed a bit.

That seems a bit opinionated. Iv been queued in MANY veteran dungeons where people struggle with mechanics, tanking, healing, and DPS.

I am fine with them nerfing 100k+ DPS (lowering the ceiling), but it feels bad when you are barely scraping 40k dps with a non-meta build you enjoy and now you are going to 25k dps and can't even complete vet content anymore. Lowering boss health is a handwave concession with little to no thought. I think the end result of these changes is to push even more players towards "meta" builds so that they can maintain some semblance of dps.

FriendlyGuy

Pvp wise there are alot of good changes but a few mistake that just makes everything irrelevant. Oekonsoul nerf is good, radiating nerf is good, alot of class changes seem to work fine (even if it seems that they just change stuff for the sake of change). Templar lost class identity which is quit a shame , however got some buffs that i think will work well once people adjust. Warden finally got a stun and a (maybe) too strong heal with polar wind. Necro mender finally got nerfed (even tho way too much). Crystal weapon damage got adjusted which is ok ( would have prefered to get old cw back) Im worried about deep fissure change but its hard to judge if it will be as bad as it seems. Might turn out to work well. The molten whip nerf would be fine if they didnt adjust dots. Now i could see dks struggling alot with taking down targets. Dark cloak got a deserved healing nerf (ofc again way too much and it encouraging not to move to get its full potencial is the opposite of fun/engaging gameplay.) i feel like alot of people werent aware how strong dark cloak could get so im actually surprised zos did something in this regard. Even tho they missed the mark i can appreciate them trying.
So there are many good but also some questionable changes that are concerning. But we will se how it will turn out (in my opinion nothing that would make a class S++ tier or unplayable)



However the existence of one particular set makes everything irrelevant. It will cause a healing/tank fest like we never seen before, and a mass exodus once the set gets popular. I guess most people on these forums already know about it so im not gonna elaborate further. But no matter how good/ bad the balance is , maras balm will ruin every pvp experience if it goes live as it is.

ThirdEye_PULSE

FriendlyGuy wrote: »

Pvp wise there are alot of good changes but a few mistake that just makes everything irrelevant. Oekonsoul nerf is good, radiating nerf is good, alot of class changes seem to work fine (even if it seems that they just change stuff for the sake of change). Templar lost class identity which is quit a shame , however got some buffs that i think will work well once people adjust. Warden finally got a stun and a (maybe) too strong heal with polar wind. Necro mender finally got nerfed (even tho way too much). Crystal weapon damage got adjusted which is ok ( would have prefered to get old cw back) Im worried about deep fissure change but its hard to judge if it will be as bad as it seems. Might turn out to work well. The molten whip nerf would be fine if they didnt adjust dots. Now i could see dks struggling alot with taking down targets. Dark cloak got a deserved healing nerf (ofc again way too much and it encouraging not to move to get its full potencial is the opposite of fun/engaging gameplay.) i feel like alot of people werent aware how strong dark cloak could get so im actually surprised zos did something in this regard. Even tho they missed the mark i can appreciate them trying.
So there are many good but also some questionable changes that are concerning. But we will se how it will turn out (in my opinion nothing that would make a class S++ tier or unplayable)



However the existence of one particular set makes everything irrelevant. It will cause a healing/tank fest like we never seen before, and a mass exodus once the set gets popular. I guess most people on these forums already know about it so im not gonna elaborate further. But no matter how good/ bad the balance is , maras balm will ruin every pvp experience if it goes live as it is.

Ive been saying im worried my magdk wont have enough pressure for u35 to secure kills. Frontbar rally backbar daedric trickery zero mythics. The class feels good to play, wouldnt say insanely over and above every other class though.

People keep saying not to worry though that they think DK will still be high up there with only NB being better next patch. Idk.

My choices are either stamsorc, stamden, or magdk. Think magdk might be best but stamden might be good too.

Didgerion

Drauz wrote: »

With how easy the game is with alot of content i think its good the overall dps gets nerfed a bit.
Also happy about the oakensoul changes for pvp.

This patch helped nothing. The easy content will remain easy.

The patch is a scramble and half of it was already rolledback. Thit only shows that it had a really bad foundation.

The only good thing about this patch is the Oakensoul change which again, is a fix of their own "mistake".

francesinhalover

Drauz wrote: »

With how easy the game is with alot of content i think its good the overall dps gets nerfed a bit.
Also happy about the oakensoul changes for pvp.

Easy content is casual content.
They can use armory to remove gear if they want a challenge.

Harder content is now harder.

GloatingSwine

Drauz wrote: »

With how easy the game is with alot of content i think its good the overall dps gets nerfed a bit.
Also happy about the oakensoul changes for pvp.

Literally none of the game people say is easy will be affected by this patch.

Mannjdyr

I don't know if it's irony, but I'm happy with the patch that will be deployed. Long live the U35!

Drauz

Also i kind of like things get shaken up now and then.
I know some people dont like the constant changes but i think things will get stale if they dont do that.

Sergykid

players join an mmo for stability and long term dedicated gameplay.
if u turn everything upside down every 3 months then it just become tiresome to keep up with.
also feedback and opinion don't matter.

Enundr

fun note , lower player dmg does not make the game more challenging , its the equivalent of some of Division 2 players will tell you about bosses or a description of them , "bullet sponges" , basically means takes forever to kill something , but otherwise NOT HARD OR CHALLENGING. you want challenge then design new trial / dungeon boss mechanics. eventually youll get used to them and then start saying its not hard and stuff all over again (honestly likely the same case with the player dmg nerf , you wont find it hard or challenging , just slow and boring and end up complaining later as well). you play mmos long enough you notice these patterns and understand theres a limit to what can be done for challenging vs being insanely stupid to do.

pklemming

This patch does not shake things up, it just gives the players a severe kicking for no reason at all. It is heavy-handed and thoughtless changes with some 'knee jerk' changes to boss health when we pointed out the damage disparity versus trial difficulty, even down to the kind of disparaging remark regarding the health of FG1 bosses when we asked why the health reduction is 10% across the board, when they were supposed to be balanced individually.

Healing is reduced for the patch, but they never reduced boss damage output to compensate. This is not a good patch, not a good patch at all.

No patch, EVER, should cause people to leave the game, especially in these numbers. If that is happening, then there is something very, very wrong.

Despite this incredibly obvious fact, they ploughed ahead with this anyway.

Oh, and if everyone is telling you the templar animation sucks, maybe not use it, huh?

shadyjane62

No.

FluffyBird

It's a bit funny that all the "I like this update so much" posts I saw either give no substantial reasoning at all or entertainingly wrong with facts and numbers

ThirdEye_PULSE

FluffyBird wrote: »

It's a bit funny that all the "I like this update so much" posts I saw either give no substantial reasoning at all or entertainingly wrong with facts and numbers

Literally. The only people that are happy or excited about patch 35 always are the same people that know the least about what the changes actually are. I havent heard a compelling argument from anyone that says they like the changes. 8/10 the person is ignorant of what the changes are. 2/10 are both ignorant of the changes and the only thing they know is original goal "lower ceiling. Raise floor". Which by any metric u35 does not solve... in any way whatsoever. We've known this since parse tests started coming in. ZoS knows the goal and the results dont match. Their going ahead anyways.

FluffyBird

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

Which by any metric u35 does not solve... in any way whatsoever. We've known this since parse tests started coming in. ZoS knows the goal and the results dont match.

Not to name names, but I saw a streamer going to PTS and being completely at loss at their trial dummy, like "I have no idea how to do now what I used to do". They were so happy when someone gave them tips and tweaks for their build. Happy about their build being still playable! Not getting stronger or more fun, just not nerfed into the ground. And not some extremely niche build that one would kind of expect to be hecked during balancing. I still can't wrap my head around that reaction.

ThirdEye_PULSE

FluffyBird wrote: »

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

Which by any metric u35 does not solve... in any way whatsoever. We've known this since parse tests started coming in. ZoS knows the goal and the results dont match.

Not to name names, but I saw a streamer going to PTS and being completely at loss at their trial dummy, like "I have no idea how to do now what I used to do". They were so happy when someone gave them tips and tweaks for their build. Happy about their build being still playable! Not getting stronger or more fun, just not nerfed into the ground. And not some extremely niche build that one would kind of expect to be hecked during balancing. I still can't wrap my head around that reaction.

I mean... thats where we are basically at as customers of ZOS. We no longer expect things to be fun or get better. We are just having anxiety every patch cycle and white knuckling them when they go live... just happy that our class is still playable or our sets are still viable. Thats the bar we hold ZOS too these days... all we want is a fun MMO to play. However, weve lost hope ZOS will get better or become more fun. So weve compromised with ZOS and all we want is for them to keep their dirty little fingers out the cookie jar and not ruin the game we enjoy playing. Thats all we expect. Cool, we know you cant make the game more fun or better. Therefore, just stop making it less fun.

Drauz

Older sets are viable for many years. Just some overpowered sets that get nerfed a bit

ThirdEye_PULSE

Drauz wrote: »

Older sets are viable for many years. Just some overpowered sets that get nerfed a bit

Viable for most regular content yes. But vet dungeons, new dungeons and trials which require higher DPS... you kind of need to follow the meta unless you LA weave and animation cancel very well. They make new content based on current DPS of highest parsers. Only way you can achieve best DPS is following meta.

As a PVP player mostly, seems meta is even more important. You can still fight with older sets but to actually compete and do well competing you need to keep up with current meta and understand the sets people are wearing so you can build for it. So yeah, end game pvp and pve have little choice but to change gear and builds every 3 months. I mean... when theorycrafting for pvp, its even good to know meta class so you can build to counter the FOTM class which a lot of people will be running.

Lady_Galadhiel

[snip]
The DPS nerf is not the worst nor the biggest problem in this update. No one will benefit from this update, literally no one.

[edited for baiting]

DrSlaughtr

At the end of the day, you still have to play the game and progress to reach end content. It doesn't matter how "easy" a game is. This is true for every game ever made. Vet content is still vet content and you will still need to care about learning mechanics and slotting skills that help get you through it.

I think the "play how you want" mantra started off as very positive but imo it has enabled a lot of stubborn opinions that we shouldn't have to learn and advance in skill.

Panachudo

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

Viable for most regular content yes. But vet dungeons, new dungeons and trials which require higher DPS... you kind of need to follow the meta unless you LA weave and animation cancel very well. They make new content based on current DPS of highest parsers. Only way you can achieve best DPS is following meta.

I don't agree with the sentiment of this statement. It implies that meta is the only way to win. During my time in ESO I have farmed and played the meta sets for arenas, trials, and veteran content. There is a difference to the DPS yes. However, I challenged myself to build only crafted, only overland, only non-dlc dungeon gear and run the very same veteran content. All of it was completed, some took longer, some were more difficult. But, it was still completed. I tanked vSCP in Heartlands and Torugs in a race with another group. We won. It wasn't a meta build by any stretch of the imagination. I've run non-meta DPS builds that provide group support and completed veteran content. I've run non-meta healer builds and completed veteran content.

The more and more I see on meta builds vs my own experimentation shows that a player who understands their class and associated abilities can in fact complete veteran content. This leads me to believe that gear is secondary to knowledge. The skill it takes to extract the very best out of what you decide to use is far more valuable. That value benefits an entire team.

I'd encourage players from all corners of Tamriel to promote the importance of understanding their class and associated abilities to the finest of detail before anything else. This alone will raise the floor.

In order to achieve this I don't think quarterly changes to the combat system are necessary. I don't mind a lot of the changes over my time. The hybridization has brought a lot of flexibility to the game for me. Though the game is now 10 years old and modernizing the underlying infrastructure is an important step to take. I believe a lot of these changes are being molded to align with that.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Personally I think the accessibility to the knowledge and understanding of abilities, champion points, class, buffs, debuffs, and their interoperability is a far more valuable use of assets. A UI and tutorial, perhaps a reactive tooltip system that reads your slotted abilities and tells you whether or not X champion point does anything for it would be beneficial. This could apply interchangeably to abilities and gear. A transparent system wherein the entire player base can actively see their decisions take shape would increase knowledge. Increasing knowledge will increase the floor.

It's all about the approach. There are learning opportunities to be had for both the players and ZOS in the last 12 months. All I can hope for is that everyone has the open-mindedness to accept responsibility for the general negativity of the current situation.

ThirdEye_PULSE

Panachudo wrote: »

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

Viable for most regular content yes. But vet dungeons, new dungeons and trials which require higher DPS... you kind of need to follow the meta unless you LA weave and animation cancel very well. They make new content based on current DPS of highest parsers. Only way you can achieve best DPS is following meta.

I don't agree with the sentiment of this statement. It implies that meta is the only way to win. During my time in ESO I have farmed and played the meta sets for arenas, trials, and veteran content. There is a difference to the DPS yes. However, I challenged myself to build only crafted, only overland, only non-dlc dungeon gear and run the very same veteran content. All of it was completed, some took longer, some were more difficult. But, it was still completed. I tanked vSCP in Heartlands and Torugs in a race with another group. We won. It wasn't a meta build by any stretch of the imagination. I've run non-meta DPS builds that provide group support and completed veteran content. I've run non-meta healer builds and completed veteran content.

The more and more I see on meta builds vs my own experimentation shows that a player who understands their class and associated abilities can in fact complete veteran content. This leads me to believe that gear is secondary to knowledge. The skill it takes to extract the very best out of what you decide to use is far more valuable. That value benefits an entire team.

I'd encourage players from all corners of Tamriel to promote the importance of understanding their class and associated abilities to the finest of detail before anything else. This alone will raise the floor.

In order to achieve this I don't think quarterly changes to the combat system are necessary. I don't mind a lot of the changes over my time. The hybridization has brought a lot of flexibility to the game for me. Though the game is now 10 years old and modernizing the underlying infrastructure is an important step to take. I believe a lot of these changes are being molded to align with that.

@Gina_Bruno Personally I think the accessibility to the knowledge and understanding of abilities, champion points, class, buffs, debuffs, and their interoperability is a far more valuable use of assets. A UI and tutorial, perhaps a reactive tooltip system that reads your slotted abilities and tells you whether or not X champion point does anything for it would be beneficial. This could apply interchangeably to abilities and gear. A transparent system wherein the entire player base can actively see their decisions take shape would increase knowledge. Increasing knowledge will increase the floor.

It's all about the approach. There are learning opportunities to be had for both the players and ZOS in the last 12 months. All I can hope for is that everyone has the open-mindedness to accept responsibility for the general negativity of the current situation.

I agree with you to a point. Especially for PVE. As a main PVP player though... its a lot harder to not know the meta and even if your not using the meta, youll do a lot better building against the meta rather than just whatever old set you have lying around.

Theres a big difference competing against a dungeon VS competing against other players. I often dont follow meta... especially latest oakensoul meta or proc sets. Im often disadvantaged against players following meta. The only thing that offsets that discrepancy is knowledge of the game, classes, ect. However, thats often not enough. I still lose a lot of fights to cheese builds/sets.

Even if your not following meta, i think when it comes to end game PVP its even more important than end game PVE to at least be aware of the meta and what your up against. Also, although knowledge and skill are very important, the easy access too proc sets and items that offset lack of skill or knowledge have increasingly over the last few years in PVP made skill and knowledge of the game less important to be "good".

So i agree with you to the point of agreeing with your post in the like section when it comes to PVE. Especially if your playing with players that are not obsessed about min-maxing and a little more laid back in their approach. But i think when it comes to PVP we are talking about something completely different, which is where i have most of my experience in this game from.

Its a little unfortunate. Ive played many pvp games. Or games just to pvp. In the games which make skill more important than gear... those are the really good ones for pvp. This game has increasingly gone away from skill to clutching on sets/mythics/ect to be good and that isnt good for the health of pvp particularly.

I feel even with the direction of U35 or at least the intention behind the patch ZOS is moving towards a game where skill matters less and less. I find that unfortunate as well. Skill based games have always been my favorite. ESO has increasingly moved away from that type of gameplay and i feel its really hard to argue otherwise based on direction of game.

It seems like the few games that still value skill over accessibility are becoming more and more so indie games. I guess financially it just doesnt make sense to reward skilled gameplay. It limits the amount of people that play and pay for the game.

Kusto

Drauz wrote: »

With how easy the game is with alot of content i think its good the overall dps gets nerfed a bit.
Also happy about the oakensoul changes for pvp.

Go pug a vet dlc dungeon lol. Sure, for most of us forum readers it's not difficult but the average pug is already struggling now. Next patch they simply cant clear anymore.

YandereGirlfriend

Panachudo wrote: »

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

Viable for most regular content yes. But vet dungeons, new dungeons and trials which require higher DPS... you kind of need to follow the meta unless you LA weave and animation cancel very well. They make new content based on current DPS of highest parsers. Only way you can achieve best DPS is following meta.

I don't agree with the sentiment of this statement. It implies that meta is the only way to win. During my time in ESO I have farmed and played the meta sets for arenas, trials, and veteran content. There is a difference to the DPS yes. However, I challenged myself to build only crafted, only overland, only non-dlc dungeon gear and run the very same veteran content. All of it was completed, some took longer, some were more difficult. But, it was still completed. I tanked vSCP in Heartlands and Torugs in a race with another group. We won. It wasn't a meta build by any stretch of the imagination. I've run non-meta DPS builds that provide group support and completed veteran content. I've run non-meta healer builds and completed veteran content.

The more and more I see on meta builds vs my own experimentation shows that a player who understands their class and associated abilities can in fact complete veteran content. This leads me to believe that gear is secondary to knowledge. The skill it takes to extract the very best out of what you decide to use is far more valuable. That value benefits an entire team.

I'd encourage players from all corners of Tamriel to promote the importance of understanding their class and associated abilities to the finest of detail before anything else. This alone will raise the floor.

In order to achieve this I don't think quarterly changes to the combat system are necessary. I don't mind a lot of the changes over my time. The hybridization has brought a lot of flexibility to the game for me. Though the game is now 10 years old and modernizing the underlying infrastructure is an important step to take. I believe a lot of these changes are being molded to align with that.

@Gina_Bruno Personally I think the accessibility to the knowledge and understanding of abilities, champion points, class, buffs, debuffs, and their interoperability is a far more valuable use of assets. A UI and tutorial, perhaps a reactive tooltip system that reads your slotted abilities and tells you whether or not X champion point does anything for it would be beneficial. This could apply interchangeably to abilities and gear. A transparent system wherein the entire player base can actively see their decisions take shape would increase knowledge. Increasing knowledge will increase the floor.

It's all about the approach. There are learning opportunities to be had for both the players and ZOS in the last 12 months. All I can hope for is that everyone has the open-mindedness to accept responsibility for the general negativity of the current situation.

I think that what they are talking about are the types of comments that you often see, like: "My proud Green Pact Bosmer only tanks using Bow/Bow because he grew up in Falinesti and shuns metallic types of weapons..." where someone's RP is directly clashing with the mechanics of the game in a way that obliterates any chance of a harmonious gameplay experience (especially if you're grouped with them in a dungeon...).

What you are describing is basically that an experienced player can hack the meta because they are already very skilled at the game. As someone who appreciates eccentric-yet-high-performing builds, I absolutely think that's cool but it's also not quite the sort of thing that the poster was criticizing.

And then, for the sake of completeness, we can have the opposite situation where someone is a (typically inexperienced...) slave to the meta yet knows nothing about how and why sets/mechanics work and so they go through the game parroting things and being very dogmatic to others because they aren't aware enough to know that different roads can lead to the same or similar results. I find this type of player quite tiring to deal with as well.

Mr_Stach

Honestly people have a completely odd view of what "Meta". The Meta is not something you put on or take off, it is a Mindset. Someone with a Meta Mindset will do whatever is necessary to be as successful as possible. You can't disrupt the Meta because it's ever shifting because people, patch to patch find whatever it is to do the most damage or be the most optimal.

This is why you cannot balance the game from the highest point, because the people who "Shape the Meta" will find whatever is the new optimal solution to the problem. You cannot balance around people who are so adaptable, it's like trying to build on Sand.

This Patch is trying to attack the Meta, in doing so it's just hurting literally everyone, and these people still found their way to do crazy amounts of damage. That is a large portion of why U35 fails, and people will be seeing that next week.

IZZEFlameLash

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Honestly people have a completely odd view of what "Meta". The Meta is not something you put on or take off, it is a Mindset. Someone with a Meta Mindset will do whatever is necessary to be as successful as possible. You can't disrupt the Meta because it's ever shifting because people, patch to patch find whatever it is to do the most damage or be the most optimal.

This is why you cannot balance the game from the highest point, because the people who "Shape the Meta" will find whatever is the new optimal solution to the problem. You cannot balance around people who are so adaptable, it's like trying to build on Sand.

This Patch is trying to attack the Meta, in doing so it's just hurting literally everyone, and these people still found their way to do crazy amounts of damage. That is a large portion of why U35 fails, and people will be seeing that next week.

Well, they always attacked the meta but this is by far the biggest of attacks since Morrowind. They always goes back and forth and tbf, it is tiring.

fiender66

In almost every other MMO I've experience with (not so few...) patches are looked at with a sort of joyous anticipation. For they usually bring some content novelty in part free, in part (maybe the greater one, but hey, this is business) to be paid for. ESO is an exception and this, for such a wonderfully conceived game, is startling.

Now, I have not even the least doubt that the present changes to the game are motivated by some marketing considerations that we (and, maybe, even part of devs, at least at the junior level) do not know. These may end to be right in the long run, or otherwise may bring to a slow decadence of the game approaching virtual extinction. No way for us to know it in advance.

There are plenty of examples of bad endings in the past. One for all, not a recent one, is SRO by Joymax that, from a massively, international success, became through a series of horrible managerial decisions a ghost game peopled by bots and just a handful of actual players from a limited geographical area.

It is evident that ZOS will persevere along the road it is presently trodding upon. Do not demonize the devs, they do what they are told to do, and the communication the firm maintains with us is usual PR stuff, mostly bad cop/good cop games and sugared up descriptions.

Play as long as you have fun, be wise with your wallet and do not hold any hope that those who take the actual decisions change their minds. They are not paid nor appreciated to do so.

prof_doom

Mr_Stach wrote: »

This Patch is trying to attack the Meta, in doing so it's just hurting literally everyone, and these people still found their way to do crazy amounts of damage. That is a large portion of why U35 fails, and people will be seeing that next week.

This.

It doesn't matter if it's only a 500 dps difference, if you're going for max scores and trifectas, you're going to run whatever gives you the best damage.

Unless you want to remove every set and only have one class with one weapon type, the best you can ever hope for in an MMO of any kind is to keep the differences at a reasonable level.

If you introduce a set that enables people to suddenly double their damage compared to people that don't use it (of the same skill level), that's a problem.

If I can do 5-10k more DPS than my friend if I wear Relequen's/Pillar of Nirn/Wading Kilt over them running their meme lightning sorc heavy attack build, that's not a problem.

SpacemanSpiff1

it is really good. less goop, more accessories.