Oakensoul is ruining the PVP experience, and needs to be balanced ASAP.

xDeusEJRx

iaminc wrote: »

Pvp is all about crutch sets classes and races , stop acting like it takes any skill to be a mag DK or Templar in cyro or be in plague/dc zerging, ball grouping.

All these are fine with hardcore pvpers because they get to steamroll new or solos, now there’s an equaliser to these things ya’ll are crying rivers of salt because your free pool of AP is lesser.

I will concede 100% the ring should have courage and heroism removed in PvP areas but otherwise it’s not an issue imo.

Sounds like you're saying cheese crutching shouldn't be a thing in pvp. Which oakensoul is the penultimate of cheese right now lol. I don't like proc pvp or Pb/DC or any of that cheese, but anyone can just tell by looking at oakensoul it's mega cheese.

It's gonna be fun for another 2 weeks until people release more strong builds that abuse the heroism, berserk, force it gives and then when it's all over pvp it'll suddenly not be fun again. It's literally a repeat of the malacath era but even worse because oaken basically replaces multiple 5 piece sets all in 1 ring at the cost of like losing 2 skills on your back bar? Because the ring covers half of what your back bar equivalent would be giving you anyway

TechMaybeHic

iaminc wrote: »

Pvp is all about crutch sets classes and races , stop acting like it takes any skill to be a mag DK or Templar in cyro or be in plague/dc zerging, ball grouping.

All these are fine with hardcore pvpers because they get to steamroll new or solos, now there’s an equaliser to these things ya’ll are crying rivers of salt because your free pool of AP is lesser.

I will concede 100% the ring should have courage and heroism removed in PvP areas but otherwise it’s not an issue imo.

Again with the flawed logic of the set being an equalizer. If it's strong enough to catch up to OP classes and OP sets; what's to stop the OP classes from using it and pairing it with OP sets? Seems like excuses for a lot of things.

Especially flawed when you claim it catches anything up to DK who arguably benefits the most as it has no minor protection, ultimate balanced by high cost, and recovers resources by using ult

geonsocal

I always wonder when reading through posts on threads like this - are some of these folks only playing one or two builds in pvp...

maybe they're experiencing pvp from a grouped perspective...

you can tell going through the posts some of the "limited" perspective people have on cyrodiil gameplay...

I have tried brokensoul on about 8 to 10 different types of builds - I have no doubt that there are theory crafters out there who can make a successful build out of just about anything...

just like there are some players who could take my own build and beat me with it in a 1 v 1 scenario 10 out of 10 times...

what I've come to see so far - brokensoul doesn't work that great on every type of build (in particular my magbalade and mag dk)...

it does make gameplay a lot easier, stay on one bar, focus your play on quick ultimate regeneration...

but yeah, I'm going to say for the vast majority of us - it is most certainly not pvp god-mode...

xylena_lazarow

geonsocal wrote: »

I have no doubt that there are theory crafters out there who can make a successful build out of just about anything... just like there are some players who could take my own build and beat me with it in a 1 v 1 scenario 10 out of 10 times... but yeah, I'm going to say for the vast majority of us - it is most certainly not pvp god-mode

You're right about perspective. This PvP is still very skill intensive even with Oakensoul. There's a lot of variance in combat prowess and build optimization between individual Corrosive DKs, or Bow Sorcs, or stealth gankers. The extremes of damage and survivability require skill to achieve, but are sucking the fun out of the game at all skill levels, whether it's because one bar builds are unfun, spam is unfun, being instakilled is unfun, being stalemated by unkillable trolls is unfun...

TechMaybeHic

I keep going after how OP Oakensoul is, but I really do like it as an option. Its just doing a little too much. Or maybe 2 bars is not doing enough. I've long not been a fan of how often you have to refresh buffs. Maybe a different way to look at it is what 2 bars provide and for how long.

ShadowProc

Exactly. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it. Small scalers or streamers should either use it if they want or dont. Up to them. But don’t cry for nerfs because they don’t want to and want their clicks.

DK corrosive and ball groups are much bigger problems than oaken. They sick the fun and performance right out of pvp. Get rid of the defensive on corrosive and get rid of cross healing in pvp and the. We can talk about adjusting oaken.

TechMaybeHic

Well the.problem there is that it's more unlikely to address everything else other than Oakensoul. Usually its the path of least resistance and often in a way nobody asked for that they do

Thecompton73

ShadowProc wrote: »

Exactly. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it. Small scalers or streamers should either use it if they want or dont. Up to them. But don’t cry for nerfs because they don’t want to and want their clicks.

DK corrosive and ball groups are much bigger problems than oaken. They sick the fun and performance right out of pvp. Get rid of the defensive on corrosive and get rid of cross healing in pvp and the. We can talk about adjusting oaken.

Except for those with the common sense to realize how ridiculous it is to spend $40 on a chapter that has nothing they want other than a single piece of pay to win gear which will be made obsolete when the Devs hit it with the nerf hammer in a couple of months.

xDeusEJRx

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Exactly. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it. Small scalers or streamers should either use it if they want or dont. Up to them. But don’t cry for nerfs because they don’t want to and want their clicks.

DK corrosive and ball groups are much bigger problems than oaken. They sick the fun and performance right out of pvp. Get rid of the defensive on corrosive and get rid of cross healing in pvp and the. We can talk about adjusting oaken.

Except for those with the common sense to realize how ridiculous it is to spend $40 on a chapter that has nothing they want other than a single piece of pay to win gear which will be made obsolete when the Devs hit it with the nerf hammer in a couple of months.

People spend way more on new crown crates. To say most people won't spend 40 dollars that directly affects their gameplay experience isn't even a question. A lot of meta hoppers do nothing but pvp so if it makes them feel powerful in pvp, then of course they will. It happened during Markarth with malacath where every meta was centered around malacath. It's gonna be the same with this

Thecompton73

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Exactly. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it. Small scalers or streamers should either use it if they want or dont. Up to them. But don’t cry for nerfs because they don’t want to and want their clicks.

DK corrosive and ball groups are much bigger problems than oaken. They sick the fun and performance right out of pvp. Get rid of the defensive on corrosive and get rid of cross healing in pvp and the. We can talk about adjusting oaken.

Except for those with the common sense to realize how ridiculous it is to spend $40 on a chapter that has nothing they want other than a single piece of pay to win gear which will be made obsolete when the Devs hit it with the nerf hammer in a couple of months.

People spend way more on new crown crates. To say most people won't spend 40 dollars that directly affects their gameplay experience isn't even a question. A lot of meta hoppers do nothing but pvp so if it makes them feel powerful in pvp, then of course they will. It happened during Markarth with malacath where every meta was centered around malacath. It's gonna be the same with this

I see you skipped right past the "common sense" part of my statement or else you wouldn't be bringing up the suckers, ahem, people who throw money down the crown crate wishing well.

JonnAndCo

If they could add a debuff to the ring such as "decreases dmg against players by X%" (this already exists in sets such as Marksman and of the Swift), I would hope the core purpose of the ring could be preserved without ruining it for everyone.

DrSlaughtr

ShadowProc wrote: »

Exactly. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it. Small scalers or streamers should either use it if they want or dont. Up to them. But don’t cry for nerfs because they don’t want to and want their clicks.

DK corrosive and ball groups are much bigger problems than oaken. They sick the fun and performance right out of pvp. Get rid of the defensive on corrosive and get rid of cross healing in pvp and the. We can talk about adjusting oaken.

You're missing the point.

There's nothing wrong with introducing new items that bring something new to the game, even if they're behind a pay wall.

The issue is when one set, or in this case one mythic, competely takes over the game. Only this is way worse than malacath. When malacath originally hit, you still had to run your bars, buff, etc.

This item drastically increases damage, drastically increases sustain (through recovery AND not having to keep up 3 - 4 buffs), and drastically simplifies combat to where you only need to hit one attack skill and one ultimate to kill players.

The effect of this is that players who haven't adopted this supposedly optional mythic are pressured to run it as well. That's not healthy for the game.

You're also ignoring that most streamers have tried or are running the item because they have to, not because they want to, and are just telling you what you don't want to hear, i.e. the ring is OP and has made pvp a dumpster fire.

I know a lot of end game pvpers and most of them have adopted the ring out of necessity. I don't know a single one who will tell you that it isn't over powered.

I get that you like it. But it's not too hard to see that this one bar set up can blow past 2 bars on every class. And we're just now seeing how cheesey players can make it work.

ShadowProc

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Exactly. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it. Small scalers or streamers should either use it if they want or dont. Up to them. But don’t cry for nerfs because they don’t want to and want their clicks.

DK corrosive and ball groups are much bigger problems than oaken. They sick the fun and performance right out of pvp. Get rid of the defensive on corrosive and get rid of cross healing in pvp and the. We can talk about adjusting oaken.

Except for those with the common sense to realize how ridiculous it is to spend $40 on a chapter that has nothing they want other than a single piece of pay to win gear which will be made obsolete when the Devs hit it with the nerf hammer in a couple of months.

Thank you for proving my point. YOUR CHOICE not to buy it.

ShadowProc

TheEndBringer wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Exactly. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it. Small scalers or streamers should either use it if they want or dont. Up to them. But don’t cry for nerfs because they don’t want to and want their clicks.

DK corrosive and ball groups are much bigger problems than oaken. They sick the fun and performance right out of pvp. Get rid of the defensive on corrosive and get rid of cross healing in pvp and the. We can talk about adjusting oaken.

You're missing the point.

There's nothing wrong with introducing new items that bring something new to the game, even if they're behind a pay wall.

The issue is when one set, or in this case one mythic, competely takes over the game. Only this is way worse than malacath. When malacath originally hit, you still had to run your bars, buff, etc.

This item drastically increases damage, drastically increases sustain (through recovery AND not having to keep up 3 - 4 buffs), and drastically simplifies combat to where you only need to hit one attack skill and one ultimate to kill players.

The effect of this is that players who haven't adopted this supposedly optional mythic are pressured to run it as well. That's not healthy for the game.

You're also ignoring that most streamers have tried or are running the item because they have to, not because they want to, and are just telling you what you don't want to hear, i.e. the ring is OP and has made pvp a dumpster fire.

I know a lot of end game pvpers and most of them have adopted the ring out of necessity. I don't know a single one who will tell you that it isn't over powered.

I get that you like it. But it's not too hard to see that this one bar set up can blow past 2 bars on every class. And we're just now seeing how cheesey players can make it work.

I have agreed it’s need adjusting. But this is way better pvp than people not dying. I die a lot. Who cares

Just not destroy it into nothingness.

DrSlaughtr

ShadowProc wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Exactly. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it. Small scalers or streamers should either use it if they want or dont. Up to them. But don’t cry for nerfs because they don’t want to and want their clicks.

DK corrosive and ball groups are much bigger problems than oaken. They sick the fun and performance right out of pvp. Get rid of the defensive on corrosive and get rid of cross healing in pvp and the. We can talk about adjusting oaken.

You're missing the point.

There's nothing wrong with introducing new items that bring something new to the game, even if they're behind a pay wall.

The issue is when one set, or in this case one mythic, competely takes over the game. Only this is way worse than malacath. When malacath originally hit, you still had to run your bars, buff, etc.

This item drastically increases damage, drastically increases sustain (through recovery AND not having to keep up 3 - 4 buffs), and drastically simplifies combat to where you only need to hit one attack skill and one ultimate to kill players.

The effect of this is that players who haven't adopted this supposedly optional mythic are pressured to run it as well. That's not healthy for the game.

You're also ignoring that most streamers have tried or are running the item because they have to, not because they want to, and are just telling you what you don't want to hear, i.e. the ring is OP and has made pvp a dumpster fire.

I know a lot of end game pvpers and most of them have adopted the ring out of necessity. I don't know a single one who will tell you that it isn't over powered.

I get that you like it. But it's not too hard to see that this one bar set up can blow past 2 bars on every class. And we're just now seeing how cheesey players can make it work.

I have agreed it’s need adjusting. But this is way better pvp than people not dying. I die a lot. Who cares

Just not destroy it into nothingness.

Well, it agree, don't wipe it away. Make it a good way to make a competitive one bar build. Remove major heroism and drop courage and berserk to minor.

What you'd see is the troll brigade would abandon it but people who want or need a boost to the floor would still be satisfied.

Of course let's say they just removed minor intellect and endurance and you'd have people lose their minds, calling the item useless. You just have to ignore those people because they're irrational.

But unfortunately because it is so over the top, any change to bring to the same power output as a comparable 2 bar build will be seen as a massive nerf.

Didgerion

FENGRUSH wrote: »

All in all, these threads won't accelerate it being nerfed. It will be nerfed. They put in an overturned mythic or two every chapter and it does force people on board to buy it, then it's nerfed and you'll get a new one next year to endure for chapter sales.

So we all waste time fighting amongst each other when this thing will be tuned down in a bit. Seems a bit unethical but that's how it goes. Impact to PvP is pretty high this time around, fortunately for them it's not in anyone's radar on their side.

Yep it is funny to see how quickly developers respond to pve threads such as "Poison spreaded in event areas... is killing people https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7639209#Comment_7639209"
And how quiet they are about Oakensoul exploits.
We all know it is going to be nerfed, this is just their business model.
My concern is that they went over the board with this one and they won't even acknowledge it.

Firstmep

Didgerion wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

All in all, these threads won't accelerate it being nerfed. It will be nerfed. They put in an overturned mythic or two every chapter and it does force people on board to buy it, then it's nerfed and you'll get a new one next year to endure for chapter sales.

So we all waste time fighting amongst each other when this thing will be tuned down in a bit. Seems a bit unethical but that's how it goes. Impact to PvP is pretty high this time around, fortunately for them it's not in anyone's radar on their side.

Yep it is funny to see how quickly developers respond to pve threads such as "Poison spreaded in event areas... is killing people https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7639209#Comment_7639209"
And how quiet they are about Oakensoul exploits.
We all know it is going to be nerfed, this is just their business model.
My concern is that they went over the board with this one and they won't even acknowledge it.

I'm a bit worried about the long term effects of oaken.
Most people focus on the stronger buffs like heroism and berserk, but this item also has another side that's equally as bad.
It removes one of the fundamental aspects of pvp combat which is buff management, it allows the wearer to stay on the offensive far longer than builds that dont run oaken. 2-4 seconds of reapplying buffs might not seem like a lot, but it can make a huge difference.
Not to mention pretty much noone has perfect buff management under pressure,but oaken just takes care of that for you.
Even if they remove heroism, courage, force and berserk, this item will still be wildly popular, beacuse it simplifies combat in a never before seen way.

Holycannoli

Thecompton73 wrote: »

Except for those with the common sense to realize how ridiculous it is to spend $40 on a chapter that has nothing they want other than a single piece of pay to win gear which will be made obsolete when the Devs hit it with the nerf hammer in a couple of months.

So it's a pretty savvy business move?

xylena_lazarow

ShadowProc wrote: »

But this is way better pvp than people not dying. I die a lot. Who cares.

Agreed. Better to cater to casuals and whales, than to fragile competitive egos who can't handle dying in a video game.

ShadowProc

Firstmep wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

All in all, these threads won't accelerate it being nerfed. It will be nerfed. They put in an overturned mythic or two every chapter and it does force people on board to buy it, then it's nerfed and you'll get a new one next year to endure for chapter sales.

So we all waste time fighting amongst each other when this thing will be tuned down in a bit. Seems a bit unethical but that's how it goes. Impact to PvP is pretty high this time around, fortunately for them it's not in anyone's radar on their side.

Yep it is funny to see how quickly developers respond to pve threads such as "Poison spreaded in event areas... is killing people https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7639209#Comment_7639209"
And how quiet they are about Oakensoul exploits.
We all know it is going to be nerfed, this is just their business model.
My concern is that they went over the board with this one and they won't even acknowledge it.

I'm a bit worried about the long term effects of oaken.
Most people focus on the stronger buffs like heroism and berserk, but this item also has another side that's equally as bad.
It removes one of the fundamental aspects of pvp combat which is buff management, it allows the wearer to stay on the offensive far longer than builds that dont run oaken. 2-4 seconds of reapplying buffs might not seem like a lot, but it can make a huge difference.
Not to mention pretty much noone has perfect buff management under pressure,but oaken just takes care of that for you.
Even if they remove heroism, courage, force and berserk, this item will still be wildly popular, beacuse it simplifies combat in a never before seen way.

Okay. This is a good thing. This should mean less tower humpers.

ShadowProc

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

But this is way better pvp than people not dying. I die a lot. Who cares.

Agreed. Better to cater to casuals and whales, than to fragile competitive egos who can't handle dying in a video game.

There you have it. Xylena has never agreed with me. The ring is better.

Draxys

100% agree.

It needs a condition such that battle spirit negates most or all of the buffs. Pvp isn’t ruined, pve still gets the ring in all its broakenness.

Ranger209

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Exactly. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it. Small scalers or streamers should either use it if they want or dont. Up to them. But don’t cry for nerfs because they don’t want to and want their clicks.

DK corrosive and ball groups are much bigger problems than oaken. They sick the fun and performance right out of pvp. Get rid of the defensive on corrosive and get rid of cross healing in pvp and the. We can talk about adjusting oaken.

Except for those with the common sense to realize how ridiculous it is to spend $40 on a chapter that has nothing they want other than a single piece of pay to win gear which will be made obsolete when the Devs hit it with the nerf hammer in a couple of months.

Let's nerf all of the gear that is farmed from DLC's and DLC dungeons then that is bind on pick up as it is all behind a paywall if that is the rationale.

DrSlaughtr

Ranger209 wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Exactly. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it. Small scalers or streamers should either use it if they want or dont. Up to them. But don’t cry for nerfs because they don’t want to and want their clicks.

DK corrosive and ball groups are much bigger problems than oaken. They sick the fun and performance right out of pvp. Get rid of the defensive on corrosive and get rid of cross healing in pvp and the. We can talk about adjusting oaken.

Except for those with the common sense to realize how ridiculous it is to spend $40 on a chapter that has nothing they want other than a single piece of pay to win gear which will be made obsolete when the Devs hit it with the nerf hammer in a couple of months.

Let's nerf all of the gear that is farmed from DLC's and DLC dungeons then that is bind on pick up as it is all behind a paywall if that is the rationale.

That's not really the same thing.

There is nothing in any dungeon or trial like this. Every "meta" trial or dungeon build can easily be done with other gear. Easily. There has never been one set released in any chapter or DLC that has completely taken over the game to this level.

Look at it this way.

Let's say you parse 50k on a 3 mill dummy with Perfected Bahsei’s Mania. If you swapped that out for False Gods or any number of other sets, you may drop 1k DPS, which is nothing. The point here is that if you don't have access to Bahsei's, it's not going to torpedo your ability to compete in end game trials because the damage increase is not substantial enough to be irreplicable.

The issue with this one piece mythic is that the damage, sustainability and survivability increases cannot be matched on any 2 bar build. For most players, you either use the ring or suffer until you pay for the chapter ($$$) and adopt the set. Every BGs right now is decided by who has the one bar templar spamming rite of passage. DK and NB one bar gankers are dropping people with one inferno heavy or one snipe. One bar necro healers are making ball groups immortal.

So when people say this is pay to win, it's not the same as needing the ESO+ to get this 5 piece set or that one. Or buying the latest chapter to get the latest trial gear drop. There are laundry lists of alternatives that work just as well. There is no way to get what you get from this ring with a 2 bar setup.

Didgerion

Firstmep wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

All in all, these threads won't accelerate it being nerfed. It will be nerfed. They put in an overturned mythic or two every chapter and it does force people on board to buy it, then it's nerfed and you'll get a new one next year to endure for chapter sales.

So we all waste time fighting amongst each other when this thing will be tuned down in a bit. Seems a bit unethical but that's how it goes. Impact to PvP is pretty high this time around, fortunately for them it's not in anyone's radar on their side.

Yep it is funny to see how quickly developers respond to pve threads such as "Poison spreaded in event areas... is killing people https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7639209#Comment_7639209"
And how quiet they are about Oakensoul exploits.
We all know it is going to be nerfed, this is just their business model.
My concern is that they went over the board with this one and they won't even acknowledge it.

I'm a bit worried about the long term effects of oaken.
Most people focus on the stronger buffs like heroism and berserk, but this item also has another side that's equally as bad.
It removes one of the fundamental aspects of pvp combat which is buff management, it allows the wearer to stay on the offensive far longer than builds that dont run oaken. 2-4 seconds of reapplying buffs might not seem like a lot, but it can make a huge difference.
Not to mention pretty much noone has perfect buff management under pressure,but oaken just takes care of that for you.
Even if they remove heroism, courage, force and berserk, this item will still be wildly popular, beacuse it simplifies combat in a never before seen way.

Right now oakensoul is raise the floor and raise the ceiling material. If they remove the 4 mentioned buffs it will become a raise the floor set only which was the original intention.
The game needs players that cannot play. And those players will not stick to the game if the floor is not being raised for them.

Yes after the nerf that mythic could still be exploited by the experienced players like fully infusing all jewelry with WD glyphs or bloodthirsty cause they don't need to sustain buffs anymore, but it won't be nearly as bad as today, because today they still can do that while having 4 rare powerful damaging buffs always on.

ShadowProc

ninjagank wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Exactly. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it. Small scalers or streamers should either use it if they want or dont. Up to them. But don’t cry for nerfs because they don’t want to and want their clicks.

DK corrosive and ball groups are much bigger problems than oaken. They sick the fun and performance right out of pvp. Get rid of the defensive on corrosive and get rid of cross healing in pvp and the. We can talk about adjusting oaken.

Except for those with the common sense to realize how ridiculous it is to spend $40 on a chapter that has nothing they want other than a single piece of pay to win gear which will be made obsolete when the Devs hit it with the nerf hammer in a couple of months.

Let's nerf all of the gear that is farmed from DLC's and DLC dungeons then that is bind on pick up as it is all behind a paywall if that is the rationale.

That's not really the same thing.

There is nothing in any dungeon or trial like this. Every "meta" trial or dungeon build can easily be done with other gear. Easily. There has never been one set released in any chapter or DLC that has completely taken over the game to this level.

Look at it this way.

Let's say you parse 50k on a 3 mill dummy with Perfected Bahsei’s Mania. If you swapped that out for False Gods or any number of other sets, you may drop 1k DPS, which is nothing. The point here is that if you don't have access to Bahsei's, it's not going to torpedo your ability to compete in end game trials because the damage increase is not substantial enough to be irreplicable.

The issue with this one piece mythic is that the damage, sustainability and survivability increases cannot be matched on any 2 bar build. For most players, you either use the ring or suffer until you pay for the chapter ($$$) and adopt the set. Every BGs right now is decided by who has the one bar templar spamming rite of passage. DK and NB one bar gankers are dropping people with one inferno heavy or one snipe. One bar necro healers are making ball groups immortal.

So when people say this is pay to win, it's not the same as needing the ESO+ to get this 5 piece set or that one. Or buying the latest chapter to get the latest trial gear drop. There are laundry lists of alternatives that work just as well. There is no way to get what you get from this ring with a 2 bar setup.

Okay. No 2 bar build can match the buffs ball groups get. Now the mythic makes obtaining those buffs ball groups have obtainable.

What is worse, ball groups or 1vxers or small scalers? Clearly ball groups. So an item that makes players more survivable against ball groups is a problem? Disagree.

Ball groups hit 6 buttons for 90% of the time and now we do to. Nothing to see here.

Aces-High-82

Swap in Major Slayer for major berserk and turn heroism and force into minor..... still relevant for decent pve dps but not super strong for pvp.

DrSlaughtr

ShadowProc wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Exactly. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it. Small scalers or streamers should either use it if they want or dont. Up to them. But don’t cry for nerfs because they don’t want to and want their clicks.

DK corrosive and ball groups are much bigger problems than oaken. They sick the fun and performance right out of pvp. Get rid of the defensive on corrosive and get rid of cross healing in pvp and the. We can talk about adjusting oaken.

Except for those with the common sense to realize how ridiculous it is to spend $40 on a chapter that has nothing they want other than a single piece of pay to win gear which will be made obsolete when the Devs hit it with the nerf hammer in a couple of months.

Let's nerf all of the gear that is farmed from DLC's and DLC dungeons then that is bind on pick up as it is all behind a paywall if that is the rationale.

That's not really the same thing.

There is nothing in any dungeon or trial like this. Every "meta" trial or dungeon build can easily be done with other gear. Easily. There has never been one set released in any chapter or DLC that has completely taken over the game to this level.

Look at it this way.

Let's say you parse 50k on a 3 mill dummy with Perfected Bahsei’s Mania. If you swapped that out for False Gods or any number of other sets, you may drop 1k DPS, which is nothing. The point here is that if you don't have access to Bahsei's, it's not going to torpedo your ability to compete in end game trials because the damage increase is not substantial enough to be irreplicable.

The issue with this one piece mythic is that the damage, sustainability and survivability increases cannot be matched on any 2 bar build. For most players, you either use the ring or suffer until you pay for the chapter ($$$) and adopt the set. Every BGs right now is decided by who has the one bar templar spamming rite of passage. DK and NB one bar gankers are dropping people with one inferno heavy or one snipe. One bar necro healers are making ball groups immortal.

So when people say this is pay to win, it's not the same as needing the ESO+ to get this 5 piece set or that one. Or buying the latest chapter to get the latest trial gear drop. There are laundry lists of alternatives that work just as well. There is no way to get what you get from this ring with a 2 bar setup.

Okay. No 2 bar build can match the buffs ball groups get. Now the mythic makes obtaining those buffs ball groups have obtainable.

What is worse, ball groups or 1vxers or small scalers? Clearly ball groups. So an item that makes players more survivable against ball groups is a problem? Disagree.

Ball groups hit 6 buttons for 90% of the time and now we do to. Nothing to see here.

The ring does not turn a player into Rambo against ball groups. I've seen this mentioned many times now. An average ball group is still going to run over your average players, ring or no ring. They are also the ring, by the way. Templar can have huge up time on rite of passage without being immobilized. Necros on pop rez ulti like it's nothing. A lot of their damage dealers are also running it.

All the ring does is give the wearer a tremendous upperhand against non wearers.

Ranger209

ninjagank wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Exactly. There is nothing stopping anyone from using it. Small scalers or streamers should either use it if they want or dont. Up to them. But don’t cry for nerfs because they don’t want to and want their clicks.

DK corrosive and ball groups are much bigger problems than oaken. They sick the fun and performance right out of pvp. Get rid of the defensive on corrosive and get rid of cross healing in pvp and the. We can talk about adjusting oaken.

Except for those with the common sense to realize how ridiculous it is to spend $40 on a chapter that has nothing they want other than a single piece of pay to win gear which will be made obsolete when the Devs hit it with the nerf hammer in a couple of months.

Let's nerf all of the gear that is farmed from DLC's and DLC dungeons then that is bind on pick up as it is all behind a paywall if that is the rationale.

That's not really the same thing.

There is nothing in any dungeon or trial like this. Every "meta" trial or dungeon build can easily be done with other gear. Easily. There has never been one set released in any chapter or DLC that has completely taken over the game to this level.

Look at it this way.

Let's say you parse 50k on a 3 mill dummy with Perfected Bahsei’s Mania. If you swapped that out for False Gods or any number of other sets, you may drop 1k DPS, which is nothing. The point here is that if you don't have access to Bahsei's, it's not going to torpedo your ability to compete in end game trials because the damage increase is not substantial enough to be irreplicable.

The issue with this one piece mythic is that the damage, sustainability and survivability increases cannot be matched on any 2 bar build. For most players, you either use the ring or suffer until you pay for the chapter ($$$) and adopt the set. Every BGs right now is decided by who has the one bar templar spamming rite of passage. DK and NB one bar gankers are dropping people with one inferno heavy or one snipe. One bar necro healers are making ball groups immortal.

So when people say this is pay to win, it's not the same as needing the ESO+ to get this 5 piece set or that one. Or buying the latest chapter to get the latest trial gear drop. There are laundry lists of alternatives that work just as well. There is no way to get what you get from this ring with a 2 bar setup.

Okay. No 2 bar build can match the buffs ball groups get. Now the mythic makes obtaining those buffs ball groups have obtainable.

What is worse, ball groups or 1vxers or small scalers? Clearly ball groups. So an item that makes players more survivable against ball groups is a problem? Disagree.

Ball groups hit 6 buttons for 90% of the time and now we do to. Nothing to see here.

The ring does not turn a player into Rambo against ball groups. I've seen this mentioned many times now. An average ball group is still going to run over your average players, ring or no ring. They are also the ring, by the way. Templar can have huge up time on rite of passage without being immobilized. Necros on pop rez ulti like it's nothing. A lot of their damage dealers are also running it.

All the ring does is give the wearer a tremendous upperhand against non wearers.

I can tell you this. If ball groups are using it I can't tell the difference because they have been doing all the same crap you stated they are doing now for years at a level that makes it indistinguishable from what they are doing now. BUT, they do seem to be more mortal now than they used to be. That is my experience with facing them over the last 6 years.

Stamicka

Stamicka wrote: »

I've been giving it some thought recently, and I think Oakensoul is ZOS' way of telling us that their philosophy for the game has changed. Most people here are arguing about how imbalanced the ring is and how it allows less skilled players to compete against players with more skill. I think that this was 100% intentional and aligned with ZOS' vision. At this point ZOS has made it clear that they will not be raising the difficulty of overland, they have not adjusted Vet content for power creep, and they are putting tons of focus into housing, mini games, and solo friendly activities. Additionally, PvP has not seen new content in years. The devs see this game as a very casual "relax and play with your friends" sort of game, very similar to Animal Crossing. Most of the competitive crowd has left, but to those remaining I'm sure we will see more things like Oakensoul get introduced into the game. At this point. ESO is not the game to play if you're looking for some sort of competitive and skilled PvP. It doesn't even seem like the Devs themselves want competitive players on the game anymore. If you're playing this game expecting it to be balanced and competitive, I think it's time to move on and let ESO become the completely casual game that it's trying to become. There are only very small glimmers of the game we once came to enjoy left.

Just as I thought, it won't be stopping with Oakensoul: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/610438/update-35-combat-preview/p1

Expect to see more broken sets and changes that exist to shrink the skill gap. Oakensoul is exactly what ZOS wants.