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Oakensoul is ruining the PVP experience, and needs to be balanced ASAP.
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DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the ring is the problem, then how was i consistently getting hit in CYRO with 28k-31k one shots from NBs 2+ months ago? how was it that DKs were taking 0 damage with massive heals yet still dish out 19k one shots? and thats with me having 29k spell resist, 26k physical resist, 2500 crit resist and dual shields. the ring isnt the problem, people adapting to the changes is
If you're going to complain about 31k one shots from a NB you should provide proof, because that's just not possible.
If you mean all of the nightblades attacks that you failed to defend against add up to 31k, then that's not a one shot.
If you're talking about heavy attack inferno ganks, it was and remains to be way easier on DK.I drink and I stream things.0 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
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I did 20k yesterday with Sergeant + Elegance. Without Oak. With Oak i think it can easily hit 28k+. Depends on target ofcuz. Though it was super annoying gameplay. Most of the time i see DODGE after heavy attack or player moves out of range.TheEndBringer wrote: »If you're going to complain about 31k one shots from a NB you should provide proof, because that's just not possibleEdited by mocap on June 27, 2022 1:47PM2 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is it possible to get a comment on this from @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_Kevin or anyone from ZOS? This is clearly a large issue that is plaguing the game right now. Any sort of response would be very appreciated by the community.
It's not that bad, do we constantly want nerfs after a release? If anything it has made me better in PvP, I am not so dismissive to core combat abilities, timing, los, etc...
I hope no nerfs...but if a must, change Courage & Heroism to minor.
my 2c
It hasn't made you better. It's removed aspects of the game you would need to learn how to manage in order to be successful. Buff uptime. Bar set up. Sustain. Survivability.
What it's done is remove all those things in the game of accessibility that's being abused by players with high skill level. By the way, I don't blame any player for running this. I blame how it came to exist.
Remember that it was first introduced on pts as obscenely worse. This meant it's power could be reduced while still leaving it OP prior to release.
I keep seeing comments calling for sweeping changes to skills and classes to balance oak rather than oak itself. Again, that's burning down the house because you don't like the wallpaper rather than just changing the wallpaper.
You've already successfully bullied players into buying the chapter so they can run this ring because it feels like you have to in order to compete.
If that's what everyone wants, then we should just make oak stats part of the base game and remove the backbar all together.I drink and I stream things.3 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
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I did 20k yesterday with Sergeant + Elegance. Without Oak. With Oak i think it can easily hit 28k+. Depends on target ofcuz. Though it was super annoying gameplay. Most of the time i see DODGE after heavy attack or player moves out of range.TheEndBringer wrote: »If you're going to complain about 31k one shots from a NB you should provide proof, because that's just not possible
Again, it's not a one shot if there are multiple hits on the death recap. Since the person just threw out random numbers, I challenged the statement based on the likelihood they were exaggerating.
If you're running a heavy inferno set up, that's a different conservation. I don't think it should be possible to hit a single heavy attack that kills basically everyone it hits.Edited by DrSlaughtr on June 27, 2022 1:52PMI drink and I stream things.0 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »
Lol the logic of it bringing balance is baffling if true. But I'm skeptical and would like to see video of even a decent 12 man wiping a 12 man ball group this patch. Or a zerg for that matter.
Ball groups seem stronger than ever as they to no longer have to manage buffs and can focus on their group rolesEdited by TechMaybeHic on June 27, 2022 2:00PM0 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »
Lol the logic of it bringing balance is baffling if true. But I'm skeptical and would like to see video of even a decent 12 man wiping a 12 man ball group this patch. Or a zerg for that matter.
Ball groups seem stronger than ever as they to no longer gave to manage buffs and can focus on their group roles
They are stronger than ever. Hence why I questioned the statement from the person I quoted.I drink and I stream things.0 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
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you said that is not possible to get one shot 31k damage with NB. I answered you that i did pretty high number even without Oak. So with Oak it will be close to 30k one shot heavy inferno attack with guaranteed crit.TheEndBringer wrote: »Again, it's not a one shot if there are multiple hits on the death recap.
If you mean one shot kill, then it all depends on target HP (a guy with 19k full hp or 50k?) and resistances.0 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
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you said that is not possible to get one shot 31k damage with NB. I answered you that i did pretty high number even without Oak. So with Oak it will be close to 30k one shot heavy inferno attack with guaranteed crit.TheEndBringer wrote: »Again, it's not a one shot if there are multiple hits on the death recap.
If you mean one shot kill, then it all depends on target HP (a guy with 19k full hp or 50k?) and resistances.
Then you didn't read all of my original statement.TheEndBringer wrote: »If you're going to complain about 31k one shots from a NB you should provide proof, because that's just not possible.
If you mean all of the nightblades attacks that you failed to defend against add up to 31k, then that's not a one shot.
If you're talking about heavy attack inferno ganks, it was and remains to be way easier on DK.Edited by DrSlaughtr on June 27, 2022 2:06PMI drink and I stream things.0 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
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Everyone already knew this was an issue before oakensoul and I agree it should've been addressed. DKs ability to buff heavies is especially problematic.
But it had unquestionably become easier with oak.I drink and I stream things.3 -
VixxVexx✭✭✭✭✭One of the only redeeming qualities this game has left is its combat system which includes bar swap. I know everything is becoming more and more gear dependent instead of skill dependent, but excluding a core combat function is just absurd.
It waters down combat and makes theorycrafting boring. The one bar build doesn't even have to be better for this to happen. If it's close enough to be competitive with 2-bar-builds it will be to go-to option. Half the work for 90% of the output.
100% uptime on Major Force and Major Heroism lmao. Just get your sales numbers up I guess.
Also, nerf undeath thanks
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Dem_kitkats1✭✭✭✭It's not just DKs and NBs benefiting greatly from this ring. If players can max Corrosive uptimes, what about other ultis? Lots of sorcs out there are spamming Crystal Weapon+Meteor+Streak combos. Imagine using ultis as basically combo finishers.
The problem I have is with this ring and others that are defending it, is that it encourages a P2W system. It allows devs to do the minimum in content and simply introduce 1 powerful item and the new DLCs fly off the shelves. If this ring really isn't all much more effective than a 2 bar setup, than it's interesting to me that vets, who should have little trouble with apm and buff uptimes, and also complain about the neglect in PvP content, are suddenly so willing to drop dollars for 1 item.
Edited by Dem_kitkats1 on June 27, 2022 3:37PM0 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭We all need to face a simple fact here: PvP will never be balanced.
It's impossible.
Oakensoul isn't the problem. It's this constant pursuit of a balance that will never be achieved via items and sets that is. The ring isn't even as powerful as it originally was. This is the nerfed version.
It is to a point now where I think they should balance items and sets solely for PvE and let the cards lie where they fall for PvP, because balance will never be achieved through them. Anything blatantly broken needs fixing, but this ring doesn't add any new problems in PvP it's just exacerbating already existing problems, which are with class skills and mostly with ultimates. That's where the problem lies.
Edited by Holycannoli on June 27, 2022 3:30PM0 -
MetallicMonk✭✭✭✭✭It's actually insane the amount of people defending this item, arguing their points in bad faith the entire time. I know people like to complain about everything in MMO PvP and think the sky is falling with every major change but this item and the balance/meta that goes around it is extremely unhealthy for the game, in the 3-4 years I've played this game PvP has never felt so awful even when the server performance was unplayable.
Making the game accessible as an option is one thing, that's fine. Allowing players who aren't capable or just don't care to put time or effort into the game at least have an enjoyable experience I agree with, that absolutely doesn't mean these players should be streamlined to be competitive for those who do though. Options already exist for helping out if you're unwilling to improve your own gameplay, like grouping up for pvp if you're having a really difficult time.
Arguing that this ring takes more skill than having 2 bars is laughable and dishonest. Wanting it to stay this powerful for an item that removes an important part of the game in barswapping and maintaining buffs is selfish.
You players defending this apparently want there to be no incentive to improve at PvP, which makes sense I guess since when I go out there 90% of players avoid fights. I guess if ZoS wants to appease these types of players it'll be what these players have always wanted; running from door to door farming AP with absolutely nobody wanting to actually PvP.
Edited by MetallicMonk on June 27, 2022 3:23PM8 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Is it possible to get a comment on this from @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_Kevin or anyone from ZOS? This is clearly a large issue that is plaguing the game right now. Any sort of response would be very appreciated by the community.
It's not that bad, do we constantly want nerfs after a release? If anything it has made me better in PvP, I am not so dismissive to core combat abilities, timing, los, etc...
I hope no nerfs...but if a must, change Courage & Heroism to minor.
my 2c
Changing those two buffs to minor will do very little to alleviate the issues being caused by this mythic in PVP. Removing the heroism and the force entirely would be the bare minimum in order for this mythic to be somewhat balanced.
I am glad that it has helped you in PVP. It seems like the main thing it has done for you is lower the APM (actions per minute) you need to do while playing by removing the need for you to maintain buffs. That is fine, and that is what the ring is designed to do. Even with the heroism and force removed from the ring, you will still retain all the accessibility functionality it is providing you currently - but the setups I mentioned in the original post will cease to function as they are currently, and the PVP experience will improve for the vast majority of players.
Again it is fine for the mythic to provide accessibility for those who struggle with their actions per minute, but it is not fine for it to grant your average PVP player more damage than an entire 5/5/2 build, significant mitigation & sustain, and emperor tier ult gen in PVP.
My APM is not what I said makes me better, It's the ttk from enemies that has made me more aware due to increased damage output. Prior I would just keep BB buffs/hots and ignore most damage...in a damage build, not anymore.
My apm went from face tanking dmg w/buffs & hot uptime BB, to more of a focus on core combat abilities. Actually takes more skill w/one-bar.
Everyone running it ttk is more lethal & it's great.
The ring as is, is fine, & PvP feels great.
Having to press less buttons and manage less buffs is more skillfull and your proof is your performance has improved? Interesting conclusion.
Not managing less buttons, different buttons.
Let me slow this down...I traded (what some think is skillful play, including me til recently) keeping bb buffs/hots up to counter the majority of incoming damage over core combat skill play.
Since many players are running Oakensoul, enemy vs enemy with the same Oakensoul buffs are equals, in that context.
This leaves a focus on your 1bar and managing skillful play of core combat skills. With the higher damage output mistakes come at a higher cost.
Well... it is less buttons. Half as many. Half as many bars to manage. Zero buffs to keep up. That allowing you to " manage skilfull play of core combat skills" while negating a large portion of game combat mechanics is literally what is wrong with it. You might feel the same if you could " manage skillfull play of core combat skills" with 2 bars.
No, with that back bar of 5 more skills you're spending more time in combat on that bar pressing those buttons instead of using core combat skills.
Yes before of course you would use 10 skills plus core combat skills, but it looked more like 80% skills 20% core combat skills, & now it's more like 50/50.
Lets be honest, is it really skill play face tanking damage? Backbar Major Resolve, Flare, 2-3 Healing skills, and ult from S&B, Resto staff, Temp Guard, etc...not nearly as skillful as core combat skills.0 -
aurelius_fx✭✭✭MetallicMonk wrote: »It's actually insane the amount of people defending this item, arguing their points in bad faith the entire time.
it's literally just people who spent $$ on the DLC and don't want their ezmode taken away, same pattern tends to happen whenever a new op mythic comes out
zos will magically realize that the ring was op once they're done selling the dlc, rinse and repeat
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React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »We all need to face a simple fact here: PvP will never be balanced.
It's impossible.
Oakensoul isn't the problem. It's this constant pursuit of a balance that will never be achieved via items and sets that is. The ring isn't even as powerful as it originally was. This is the nerfed version.
It is to a point now where I think they should balance items and sets solely for PvE and let the cards lie where they will for PvP, because balance will never be achieved through them. Anything blatantly broken needs fixing, but this ring doesn't add any new problems in PvP it's just exacerbating already existing problems, which are with class skills and mostly with ultimates. That's where the problem lies.
To be clear, the original version of the ring was not as strong as the current version of the ring. There was a nerf and then a buff to the ring, almost exclusively due to werewolves. It was first changed in 8.0.2, when it was given named buffs so that werewolves couldn't use it with 0 drawbacks. At this point in time it had resolve, savagery, major courage, and the major versions of the regen buffs. At this point it still had the 3.7k HP/mag/stam.
In 8.0.3, for some bizarre reason, they decided to also give it brutality, berserk, protection, force, and heroism. They removed the 3.7k stats, and converted the major sustain buffs to minor sustain buffs (which is actually a buff, because the minors are hard to come by whereas the majors are given for free to almost every PVP build from potions).
The 8.0.3 version is in fact significantly stronger than the original version that had flat stats, due to the heroism/force/berserk/protection that were added, far outweighing what was removed from the original version.
@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster6 -
MetallicMonk✭✭✭✭✭aurelius_fx wrote: »MetallicMonk wrote: »It's actually insane the amount of people defending this item, arguing their points in bad faith the entire time.
it's literally just people who spent $$ on the DLC and don't want their ezmode taken away, same pattern tends to happen whenever a new op mythic comes out
zos will magically realize that the ring was op once they're done selling the dlc, rinse and repeat
It is true, but nothing has even come close to how massively annoying this mythic is, the other ones were much more manageable meta wise. Malacath was pretty bad but nothing quite like this. Literally nobody I know wants to or enjoys playing in this mess.0 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭aurelius_fx wrote: »it's literally just people who spent $$ on the DLC and don't want their ezmode taken away, same pattern tends to happen whenever a new op mythic comes out
zos will magically realize that the ring was op once they're done selling the dlc, rinse and repeat
[snip]
What are you gonna do next year when the next OP mythic is introduced?
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 27, 2022 4:25PM0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭The 8.0.3 version is in fact significantly stronger than the original version that had flat stats, due to the heroism/force/berserk/protection that were added, far outweighing what was removed from the original version.
Initial version was giving a lot of raw stats that could be boosted higher. If it gone live, we would be in even more unhealthier meta.1 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MetallicMonk wrote: »aurelius_fx wrote: »MetallicMonk wrote: »It's actually insane the amount of people defending this item, arguing their points in bad faith the entire time.
it's literally just people who spent $$ on the DLC and don't want their ezmode taken away, same pattern tends to happen whenever a new op mythic comes out
zos will magically realize that the ring was op once they're done selling the dlc, rinse and repeat
It is true, but nothing has even come close to how massively annoying this mythic is, the other ones were much more manageable meta wise. Malacath was pretty bad but nothing quite like this. Literally nobody I know wants to or enjoys playing in this mess.
Everyone I know is having a blast playing it.
No more silly tank builds playing tag.2 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Is it possible to get a comment on this from @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_Kevin or anyone from ZOS? This is clearly a large issue that is plaguing the game right now. Any sort of response would be very appreciated by the community.
It's not that bad, do we constantly want nerfs after a release? If anything it has made me better in PvP, I am not so dismissive to core combat abilities, timing, los, etc...
I hope no nerfs...but if a must, change Courage & Heroism to minor.
my 2c
Changing those two buffs to minor will do very little to alleviate the issues being caused by this mythic in PVP. Removing the heroism and the force entirely would be the bare minimum in order for this mythic to be somewhat balanced.
I am glad that it has helped you in PVP. It seems like the main thing it has done for you is lower the APM (actions per minute) you need to do while playing by removing the need for you to maintain buffs. That is fine, and that is what the ring is designed to do. Even with the heroism and force removed from the ring, you will still retain all the accessibility functionality it is providing you currently - but the setups I mentioned in the original post will cease to function as they are currently, and the PVP experience will improve for the vast majority of players.
Again it is fine for the mythic to provide accessibility for those who struggle with their actions per minute, but it is not fine for it to grant your average PVP player more damage than an entire 5/5/2 build, significant mitigation & sustain, and emperor tier ult gen in PVP.
My APM is not what I said makes me better, It's the ttk from enemies that has made me more aware due to increased damage output. Prior I would just keep BB buffs/hots and ignore most damage...in a damage build, not anymore.
My apm went from face tanking dmg w/buffs & hot uptime BB, to more of a focus on core combat abilities. Actually takes more skill w/one-bar.
Everyone running it ttk is more lethal & it's great.
The ring as is, is fine, & PvP feels great.
Having to press less buttons and manage less buffs is more skillfull and your proof is your performance has improved? Interesting conclusion.
Not managing less buttons, different buttons.
Let me slow this down...I traded (what some think is skillful play, including me til recently) keeping bb buffs/hots up to counter the majority of incoming damage over core combat skill play.
Since many players are running Oakensoul, enemy vs enemy with the same Oakensoul buffs are equals, in that context.
This leaves a focus on your 1bar and managing skillful play of core combat skills. With the higher damage output mistakes come at a higher cost.
Well... it is less buttons. Half as many. Half as many bars to manage. Zero buffs to keep up. That allowing you to " manage skilfull play of core combat skills" while negating a large portion of game combat mechanics is literally what is wrong with it. You might feel the same if you could " manage skillfull play of core combat skills" with 2 bars.
No, with that back bar of 5 more skills you're spending more time in combat on that bar pressing those buttons instead of using core combat skills.
Yes before of course you would use 10 skills plus core combat skills, but it looked more like 80% skills 20% core combat skills, & now it's more like 50/50.
Lets be honest, is it really skill play face tanking damage? Backbar Major Resolve, Flare, 2-3 Healing skills, and ult from S&B, Resto staff, Temp Guard, etc...not nearly as skillful as core combat skills.
For the record, "core combat skills" are things like block, dodge roll, sprint, bash, and break free, per zenimax's wording in game on multiple sets and the survival instincts red CP. You still perform the exact same number of core combat abilities if you're playing with two bars, but you have far more buffs to manage and abilities to rotate.The 8.0.3 version is in fact significantly stronger than the original version that had flat stats, due to the heroism/force/berserk/protection that were added, far outweighing what was removed from the original version.
Initial version was giving a lot of raw stats that could be boosted higher. If it gone live, we would be in even more unhealthier meta.
Nope. Despite the original version giving raw stats, you were still limited to 5 barslots. This meant that for most classes, getting things like ward/resolve, savagery, and brutality, you would actually have to sacrifice barslots. You're suggesting that people would be able to double up on the 5280 with their own ward/resolve, or the crit chance with their own savagery, or the weapon damage with their own (major courage?), but when you consider the 5 bar slot limitation this is not at all realistic.
The current version providing the named buffs removes the need for all of those abilities on your bar, allowing you to optimize the 5 slots much better. Additionally, when you consider what the new version gives, it is significantly more stat dense than the original version damage wise. Savagery, 20% crit damage, 10% flat damage modifier, and 450 WD/SD vs 450 WD/SD + 3.8k mag/stam + 2k crit chance.
Defensively, major protection is much more valuable than 5.2k resistances as the protection cannot be inversely mitigated by penetration like resistances can. The major heroism is also disgustingly strong for a plethora of reasons, both offensive and defensive depending on the ult of choice. Near emperor tier ulti regen does not belong in PVP outside of emperor itself.Edited by React on June 27, 2022 4:09PM@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
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xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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It's not the deaths, it's the tank heal stalemates that need nerfing, and that is not an Oakensoul problem.sunshineflame wrote: »I also died in PvP, sadly I did not take screenshots to prove it, but I did. Please nerf everything but what I play. Thank you 😘😘😘PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps5 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭I've been murdered numerous times by oakensoul wearers and non oakensoul wearers, but it doesn't bother me. You guys seem to complain about everything. It's a wonder pvp still exists at this point.
To me, pvp isn't supposed to be like pve, so everyone shouldn't be doing the same small attacks. You have everything you need to create good defensive and offensive builds that can counter almost anything. I've done it with my healer, and I've seen other players do it as well. So your claims that the ring ruins the game is just silly.
If it's specifically aimed at nighblades and ganking, I can point out a few videos that showed gankers how to one shot even before this ring was even on the pts. This has existed for a long time it's not new at all. You're only complaining now because you enjoy complaining.
The ring is used for people like myself who are still new to this kind of game and is not capable of switching bars so quickly while in battle. I rarely ever use it on my nb because ganking is boring to me. I use it on my sorc and this has made everything so much easier for a potato like me. Am I OP? Not really. I can still die just as easily as before. The only difference is I can navigate my attacks better without needing worry about flipping bars and pressing the right button at the right time. You see, when you have no thumbs this is hard.
If you want to know what the real problem in pvp is, it's faction imbalance. It's difficult to do anything when one faction has 40+ people all at one keep and the other has no more than 20. Unfortunately, I never hear anyone complain about the things they can't fix on their own.
[I didn't read all the posts because it was too long, so if what I pointed out already came up...oops]
You literally just pointed out what’s wrong with this ring lol. You yourself said that you are new to the game. I want you to take a step back and try to see this as objectively as you can. Because maybe just maybe the people that have played this game for years and really understand combat are able to see a problematic item more easily than a new player still not use to utilizing all their bars.
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jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To be honest, this mythic and the Occult Overload buff have made it feasible to combat ball groups without needing one of your own. This is exactly what pvp needed. Specific HOT stacking still needs to be done away with, but this was a step in the right direction. That and another addition that I won't go in depth with. I don't mind the occasional one shot out of stealth...or the bombs. It takes more skill to be a successful ganker/bomber and survive than it does to run in a ball with all the HOT stacking. I feel like if HOT stacking isn't going to be addressed, then we need more viable sets that proc AOE status effects to take advantage of Occult Overload. Livewire is an example, but in Cyrodiil against ball groups it simply isn't viable.
Oaken as it is...is fine. You're sacrificing a bar and you're bound to give up utility. Whether it's AOE damage reduction in the form of major evasion, a speed buff, or a HOT. It is by no means overpowered in relative terms. People claiming that it is have simply refused to adapt.
[snip]
[snip]
The uptime on Corrosive pre-oaken was wildly different in functionality and mechanics.
Pre-oaken, you would have to run multiple 5 piece sets, and juggle buff uptimes alongside ult management to get the most damage you could out of skills. But you still had a significant drawback to your build when corrosive wasn't up. And when it is ready, you have to pre-buff to effectively take advantage of it.
With Oaken, you not only can run those sets, many of which provide zero offensive buffs outside of ultimate gain, as well as permanent uptime on offensive buffs. And you get major heroism, so you get to your ult even faster. You don't have to manage buffs to keep yourself effective. When corrosive is ready, you are immediately able to go offensive, no prep work required at all.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 27, 2022 5:26PM1 -
Ahk1lleez✭✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »
What I meant there was that people ungrouped have a chance of dealing with them together. No, I am not at all insinuating that I can 1v12 any group by any means.0 -
Ahk1lleez✭✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »
Lol the logic of it bringing balance is baffling if true. But I'm skeptical and would like to see video of even a decent 12 man wiping a 12 man ball group this patch. Or a zerg for that matter.
Ball groups seem stronger than ever as they to no longer gave to manage buffs and can focus on their group roles
They are stronger than ever. Hence why I questioned the statement from the person I quoted.
There was something else introduced recently that provides a long burst window on ball groups provided you use it effectively. It's up to you to find what it was that was introduced.0 -
buzzclops✭✭✭This mythic item is absolutely trash. I have never dominated this much with my builds from last update. You cant have a reliable pvp toolkit with just 5 buttons outside of playing werewolf. It’s impossible to slot enough offense/defense/cc/healing/mobility to do pvp at the high level. Major/minor evasion/vitality/mending are far superior buffs for pvp imo. Especially evasion wich you cant really afford on five buttons. You cant heal yourself vs good players with just 1-2 source of healing. I just don’t understand why ppl complain about that thing.Edited by buzzclops on June 27, 2022 4:39PM2
https://youtu.be/KSUd5HXYIxc?t=334